The War of the Magi

[Ironman0723]

Can somone please post as much information as possible about the War of the Magi? I'd greatly appreciate it if you could go into as much detail as possible, and as much information as you can. Thanks!

[Halenite]

It was a war between Espers and humans that occured 1000 years ago. After the war's end, the Espers sealed themselves off from the Human world hoping to prevent another war.

Needless to say they failed when Kefka starts stealing Esper magic

[TheAbominatrix]

The war started because humans began to crave the power of the Espers. Some Espers, like Odin, fought on the side of the humans, most fought against the humans.

[BG-57]

The villagers of Thamassa are descendants of the humans who used the powers drained from Espers and fought against them.

The War was precipitated by a conflict between the three goddesses. Some humans got caught in the cross fire and were turned into Espers.

There's not much to add because the details about the War are very sketchy.

However here are some reasonable assumptions:

1) Many of the present Espers were most likely alive 1000 years ago (they may age differently). It's doubtful that humans alive at the the time would still be in the present.

2) The 8 dragons, Phunbaba, and Doomgaze were involved and got sealed sometime during the War.

3) Some of current cities in FFVI may have existed 1000 years ago. Tzen is a good candidate.

[Ironman0723]

Excellent. Any more additional information that can be contributed is also greatly appreciated. Also, were there other espers that fought along side humans? What were Odin's reasons for fighting on that side? I understand if these questions can't be answered, of course..Also, is there more detail about the goddess' conflict? Thanks.

[BG-57]

I'm pretty sure the Atma Weapon and the Atma Weapon sword both date from the War.

I started a thread like this a year ago when I was working on a fanfiction covering the War. Most of what we came up with beyond this was speculation.

[abrojtm]

Odin had fallen in love with the queen of the castle (the one that you get Odin/Raiden in). There is a breif expanation given by Locke if he's in your party when you go there.

[TheAbominatrix]

It's not said whether there were any other Espers on the human's side. I cant remember if Odin was in love with the Queen, but she was in love with him. He may have just felt a duty to that particular castle.

[Ironman0723]

Ok, this is good. Just a few more questions, any of them that cannot be answered I i'll understand. Was there a winner of the war? The espers got sealed in another world or something, right(sorry my details are a little sketchy)? Who sealed that world? The Espers wiped out the technology and magic from the humans? I have more questions but none I can think of at the moment.. Thanks!

I'm really interested in the War of the Magi, and I think that if there was a direct game sequel that was linked to Final Fantasy VI, I would really like a prequel, which dealt with the war. This could give a really good preface to the game and details and such.

[TheAbominatrix]

Both sides seemed to have heavy losses. The Espers made their own world and fled there. The war no doubt took a heavy toll on technology, probably destroying a lot of it, and a lot of the people with the knowledge, and by the end a lot of the resources had been no doubt used up. The humans never had magic to begin with, only those that stole it from the Espers.

[Lon611]

i think an explanataion of the three goddesses would help here. ne1 care to explain?im not far enough...actually i am...but i don't remember about them, lol :rolleyes2

[TheAbominatrix]

The three goddesses were the creators of magic. They started to fight amongst themselves, and as BG-57 said, they were responsible for the creation of the Espers. They knew their fighting would end up destroying everything, so in a calm moment they agreed to seal themselves away, and they turned themselves to stone. The statues are hidden in the Esper world.

[Necronopticous]

Hmm, I wanted to say something when I saw the thread, but you guys are sure on top of it... Good job! Hahaha

[Halenite]

Oh yeah, forgot about Odin. :rolleyes2

[Ironman0723]

Thanks, so was there any type of empire that was intact? What there like a name for the humans side, or a kingdom or something.. Wasn't it a certain place that was going against the Espers, or was it the entire world? Like, I mean was it just a single kingdom/empire type group, or was it mostly the entire world that were opposing the espers? When the espers fled to their new world and sealed it up, that was the end of the war, right? And did someone say that the war lasted for 1000 years, or just that it was 1000 years ago?

[Doomgaze]

The war was 1,000 years ago - the length was unknown. The espers fled AFTER the war ended, I think, because humans were persecuting them and blaming them for the war. Or they merely sealed it after the war. I'm not sure.

I'd assume there were three factions, one for each of the Goddesses.

[Ironman0723]

Interesting, so if the war ended, and then the espers fled, does that mean that there was a victor to the war, or was it more of a stalemate? Is there any reason there would be a faction for each goddess? Also, was there a side that Phunbaba, Doomgaze, and the 8 dragons were on? I'm really interested in this, thanks for discussing this with me.

[Doomgaze]

Stalemate - the Goddesses sealed themselves to end the war.

...and, theoretically they would each have a faction. Are they not the ones who started it?

[Flying Mullet]

Also, was there a side that Phunbaba, Doomgaze, and the 8 dragons were on?
My guess is that they were all created or trained as weapons to use in the war and during the war or when it was over the opposing side(s) sealed them away to prevent further problems with them.

[Strider]

It's been a while since I've played, but as I remember Strago describing it, the Goddesses sealed themselves away because they were simply bickering too much for the good of the world. "A mutual moment of clarity", I think they called it. And Espers were really just people that were caught in the crossfire and changed as such.

I believe the Goddesses are largely independent of the War of the Magi, although I could be wrong.

[Ironman0723]

Ok, so I wasn't sure why the goddessed would have their own factions. Clarify something for me. The war pits the espers, against the humans, no? The goddesses started the whole thing, right? Ok, if the war is the espers vs. the humans, where do the "factions" fit in? Are they on the humans side? The espers side? Are they on 3 different sides altogether?

[TheAbominatrix]

Factions means groups. The Espers are a faction. The humans are a faction.

[Ironman0723]

Yes, I know this. However someone mentioned there being a faction for each goddess, if there is only a faction of Espers, and a faction of humans, thats only 2 factions. See what I'm getting at?

[TheAbominatrix]

Ah, my mistake. Each of the Goddess' dont have a faction. They're just fighting eachother, and could care less about everything else. The human/Esper war is of no concern to them.

[Ironman0723]

Ok, so the goddesses are in conflict.. What does this have to do with the war? I ask this because earlier I believe someone had mentioned that their conflict was what started the war, does that statement still stand? If the goddesses couldn't care less about the war, does this mean the war was started for other reasons?

[TheAbominatrix]

When the goddesses began fighting amongst themselves, the humans caught in the crossfire became Espers. The normal humans begin to lust for the Esper's powers, and thus they began to fight, and humans began draining the Esper's powers for their own. That's the cause of the war.

[Ironman0723]

Ah ok, I see now. So does that mean that all of the espers were former humans? Or, were some of the espers former humans, and then did they breed off new espers?

[TheAbominatrix]

Some of the current Espers are Espers that were originally humans, from the war. They seem to have a very long life span. Others would have to be children of the original Espers, because once the goddesses were stone, no more were made. So Maduin, for example, is far far younger than the elder of the Esper world. He'd have to be a child of other Espers.

[Ironman0723]

Interesting. I don't really want to trouble you for this, because its a lot, but do you know where I can find info on who the older espers are.. and who the younger ones are, and stuff like that? Where can I find that info?

Also, I asked this earlier, was it all of the humans against the espers, or was it like just one power-hungry kingdom or something?

[TheAbominatrix]

The info isnt available. There's nowhere that reveals the ages of the Espers. Simply that the Elder is very very old, while Maduin is young. There really isnt any other way to tell.

It's never said. It could be assumed that it's all the humans, because no distinctions are made.

[Ironman0723]

Oh ok, and is the elder at all revealed? Its been a long time since I played. Anyways, thanks for the responses, you've been a great help.

[TheAbominatrix]

Yes, the Elder is seen all throughout the Esper world scene.

[Doomgaze]

I didn't realize the Goddesses had such a passive role in the war.

[TheAbominatrix]

It's never said they did anything else. Only that they fought amongst themselves and humans got caught in the crossfire. They are the ultimate cause of the war, they created the Espers after all.

[Big D]

With regard to Odin fighting for the humans... it's possible there were more than just two factions in the conflict. There were only two groups involved - Espers and humans - but there may have been sub-groups of the two. Why would Odin fight against his own kind? It could be that he wanted to preserve unity between humankind and Espers, whereas his enemies wanted one side to annihilate the other. Some could have been fighting for the destruction of the other species, some fighting for control or dominance, and some fighting to bring an end to the dispute.

[Outsider]

One subgroup is the "Mage Knights". I remember something about they being hunted by other people, so they had to hide... I know that the Mage Knights who survived are the ancestors of the people from Thamasa.

But I don't know if they existed during the War Of The Magi... I guess they existed by that time, since their power was drained from Espers.

[TheAbominatrix]

The Mage Knights would have had to exist during the war, especially because Strago mentions something about how the Espers left them there, or 'after the Espers left' in reference to the humans hunting them. By the end of the war, a scapegoat was needed, and the Mage Knights made the perfect place to lay the blame.

And as for factions within the group, I'm sure there were all sorts on both sides, just as with every other conflict.

[Ironman0723]

Ok, so.. The mage knights were on the espers side? And, at what point of the war did the goddesses turn into stone?

[BG-57]

I doubt it, if they were draining Espers to get their magical powers. It's similar to what the Empire does in the present.

Although it's possible that some Espers collaborated with the Mage Knights.

The Goddesses most likely turned themselves into stone statues at the end of the War.

[Ironman0723]

Oh ok, so the espers were just chillin for some of the war? :)

I found some info on some of the espers from my old Anthologies save that I thought was interesting.

Golem- "Like Alexander, this Esper was made before the war."

Alexander- "Mages brought this ancient machine to life"

So, we can assume that these two espers were basically creations? Thats cool, can anyone give some background info on them, if any background info exists at all?

[Doomgaze]

It's possible they are sentient magitek devices, I suppose.

Listen, you played the same copy of FF6 that we all did. There's not some secret section you missed with a vast history of the war.

[Flashback007]

With regard to Odin fighting for the humans... it's possible there were more than just two factions in the conflict. There were only two groups involved - Espers and humans - but there may have been sub-groups of the two. Why would Odin fight against his own kind? It could be that he wanted to preserve unity between humankind and Espers, whereas his enemies wanted one side to annihilate the other. Some could have been fighting for the destruction of the other species, some fighting for control or dominance, and some fighting to bring an end to the dispute.

I think this is quiet a good one. Cause if I remember correctly Odin fall in love with a human queen. Maybe this is kind like of Romeo/Julia story or more like Westside. Two groups fighting each other, but a girl from one group falls in love with a guy from the other group. And they want peace. But it didn't happen. So maybe the girl died and the guy then sacrificed himself in front of everybody. The godesses were hit by this and ended the war by turning themself in stone.

[TheAbominatrix]

Odin was turned to stone by an enemy, as was the Queen. Odin probably went down first. It seemed like Odin had been on the side of that Queen and her castle for quite some time, because of the way the Queen describes her feelings for Odin.

[theundeadhero]

okay, to sum it all up. 3 goddessess started figting each other. They somehow divied up the human race into 3 groups, one for each goddess. Chances are that at least some humans weren't involved in the war. Each group was divided into 3 subcatagories, humans, espers (humans infused with magic by a goddess), and mage nights(humans infused with magic by absorbing power through magicite, the remains of a dead esper.). Odin fought alongside a queen because she had a fobidden love for him. They were both turned to stone in an assault on their castle. The dragons and Atma(along with the Atma Weapon) are presumeably from the war era. In my opinion Atma was but the dragons were from a time before and were simply used in the war. It's also assumed the dragons were sealed during the time of the war. At some point the goddessess realized the war was tearing thier world apart so the agreed to turn themselves into statues and balance thier power. I believe Atma was chosen as the gaurdian of the statues. After the war, Espers chose to create an alternate place to live away from the current world. They sealed thier world off from any outsiders. The statues were kept within here to keep them safe. Mage knights were persicuted for thier magical powers. Many of them were hunted down, but a few escaped and started a settlement on the Island of Thamasa.

[TheAbominatrix]

The humans made Mage Knights, not the goddesses. And the name of the island is Thamasa.

[Ironman0723]

By all means Doomgaze, if you have a problem with this thread or the questions I'm asking, don't post. I haven't played FF6 in a while, and I was sketchy on the details. Sue me.

[Doomgaze]

I'm just saying, you know full well that a piece of Magicite you pick up at a auction house doesn't have a big backstory.

[Ironman0723]

Well, it didn't just appear out of thin air, so it has some kind of origin, even if it is as small as.. I dunno, something small.

[theundeadhero]

Backstory: When the world changed that day, surely some espers being held captive by the empire died. Someone found their magicite remains and decided it would make some good prices at the auction house, and for the price we pay for them, he's right!

[Ironman0723]

I like that, that sounds interesting.

[TheAbominatrix]

The Espers had already all been turned into magicite by the 'end of the world'. The magicite at the auction house are just things found and sold.

[theundeadhero]

The Espers had already all been turned into magicite by the 'end of the world'. The magicite at the auction house are just things found and sold.

Not true, when you go through the research center, you see Espers in the test tunes, not magicite.

[Ironman0723]

^Do you mean in the World of Ruin, or the World of Balance, undeadhero?^

[TheAbominatrix]

Not true, when you go through the research center, you see Espers in the test tunes, not magicite.

As soon as you finish your first run through of the facility, they're turned into magicite. By the time of the World of Ruin, there's none left.

[Ironman0723]

Oh ok, so theoretically, by the time of the World of Ruin, the magicite are all scattered, among debris or whatever may be the case. So there could have been a wanderer or something who found it, and sold it to the auction house. I see.

[theundeadhero]

We're talking about the magitek research facility in the world of balance. While playing through, the Espers in one room turn into magicite and you recieve them but it's safe to assume that more than one room has Espers. After the sealed cave event the Espers from the other world go crazy and attack the capitol, so you could say they died in the attack, but this is shortly before the "end of the world" anyway. You have to assume their are more Espers in the world than what the game supplies for your. Use you imagination.

[EDIT] Wow, in the time it took me to write this, you already replied.

[Ironman0723]

Yeah, I was thinking about the possibility of other espers.. I was also thinking about there maybe being other espers that could have been alive during the war, but met their demise and didn't make it to the Esper world, or to the Final Fantasy VI storyline. Thats one of the reasons I think a prequel game would be really cool, but Squenix is focusing on all Final Fantasy VII spin offs.. So oh well. Besides, the Final Fantasy VI prequel game would be really cool, but only if Square did it right, and didn't mess anything up about the story or something.

[Doomgaze]

Like Tritoch? (kind of)

[Ironman0723]

What about Tritoch? I was thinking in the prequel they could explain the whole Tritoch cave thing.. Is that what you meant?

[Doomgaze]

That he was alive during the war, I guess.

[Magimaster 2]

I find this topic really interesting. I have translated this game from English to Spanish, so I have read the whole script. I also have the Japanese cartridge and have checked for any differences, so I think I can give quite an accurate and chronologically ordered summarization of the events.

1. First, there was the fight between the three goddesses, creators of the magic. There is no record as to why they fight each other, but I would assume it is because each wanted to rule over the others; which is impossible since their power is even. Put your own assumption here. As a side note, I’d like to add that there is a Japanese myth about three gods, creators of the world, the green and the life. It has been referred to in some games (like Zelda for the N64).

2. There was no humans aiding the goddesses. They created weapons of their own. The humans trapped in their crossfire turned into espers, mindless servants. My assumption is that beasts like the 8 dragons, Phunbaba and Doomgaze were weapons created and used by the goddesses. Ultima Weapon (Atma if you want) might be the older of them, but it seem strange to me that he has mechanical parts.

3. At some point, the goddesses decided to end their fighting. They went to the island east of Albrook and sealed each other into stone, thus releasing the will of the espers. My assumption is that the 8 dragons, Phunbaba and Doomgaze were sealed in that moment, and that they somehow restored the wounded world with their magic. That would explain why the world is deformed when they are moved out of balance.

4. It is not specified how much time passed since the goddesses sealed themselves and the start of the Magic War (or War of the Magi if you like), but it was enough for the appearance of humans with magical powers. The only possible way to transfer magic from an esper was through magicites, since Cid’s methods are from 1000 years later. Nevertheless, the goddesses have no direct relationship with the Magic War.

5. The war started between an unspecified number of factions, but a real reason is not specified. It might have been any common reason, like land domination or a struggle for independence (on the espers part). Supposedly, the war was between the espers and humans who had magical powers, though it is not clear if there was an human only faction and an esper only faction, or if they were balanced forces. The magic knights are NOT mentioned here. Because of Odin’s event, it is obvious that humans fought together with the espers. My assumption is that humans and espers joined forces to fight, and the object of the war was not the existence of any of them. This theory comes from the fact that Odin fought along with humans but, in the end, he was killed by a human (he was turned into stone by a powerful wizard, not by an esper). I think that the real relevance of this war was not the fact that there were humans or espers involved, but that magic was used as a weapon; a very powerful one. As for Odin’s relationship with the humans, all that is known is that he was a powerful warrior of their own army. I don’t know if he had any special feelings for the queen, but it is clear that she did. She said she was going to “confess” his love to Odin.

6. At some unspecified point, the espers decided to leave the world of humans. They created their own world and erected the sealed gate. It is obvious that not all the espers left to the esper world. Ramuh said that espers take human form to live between humans, but no detail whatsoever is given about it. My assumption is that they agreed as race to leave the world of humans, maybe because they could be easily “used” as weapons. I would say that the remaining human warriors were not many, and that they were hunted down, in retaliation, by the humans that were helpless victims in the war and now, with the espers banished, stood a better chance. Maybe fear made them see them as a threat, so they wanted them dead.

7. It is a fact that normal humans hunted down the so-called “magic knights”, but the only stated reason is “because of their powers”. I think these “magic knights” were not a faction per se, but that term is used to anyone with magical powers. I think this because, in the Japanese version of the game, the letters used to refer to this people mean “magic warriors” (some warriors with magic capability).

This ends what the game says and the little assumptions I can make to fill the holes. You can make up your own stories from here on.

[Ironman0723]

Very interesting.. So you say that some of the humans and Espers may have been on the same side.. And the opposing side was.. other humans right? Wasn't some of the war fought because humans were trying to get power from the espers, and become power hungry?

[Magimaster 2]

There is not enough evidence to say that there was a side formed only by humans and other formed by espers, but I think both sides had humans and espers alike.

The game doesn't specify why the war began, so it could have been any reason. There is not a clear answer for that. I already stated my assumptions.