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View Full Version : PES4 - A Disappointment?



Cz
10-20-2004, 10:50 PM
Now, before I start, I'd like to make it absolutely clear that I'm a huge fan of Konami's series, and that I was as eager to get my hands on this game as the rest of you. I've owned it since it's release on the 15th, and have played it extensively in that time. I'd like to think that these opinions aren't just typical sequel-bashing.

Now, Pro Evolution Soccer 3 was, up until 15th October, the finest football game in existence. A finely tuned game engine, impressive AI and a wealth of customisation options kept the game very close to my heart. In fact, I was sorry to see it go, and gave it a proper farewell on the 14th by playing one final commemerative tournament. Everything about PES3 was perfect. The crowd's expectant buzz before a match, the loving attention paid to each of the magnificent stadia, the intro movie sent chills down my spine every time I loaded it up. Pro Evo 3 captured the very spirit of football and allowed me to be a part of its fabulous world.

It was with great anticipation that I loaded up the sequel the next day, and was instantly wowed by the new range of options. The presentation was sublime, a huge step up from PES3's somewhat colourless menus. The players were more realistic than ever, and the range of teams and tournaments impressed me right from the start.

But what happened to the game itself? Having been playing the third installment all year I hadn't expected to adapt right away, but it felt like I was playing a whole different game. It felt almost FIFA-esque, in fact. It's rather difficult to explain, but everything is PES4 feels a lot more restricted. Whereas in the previous game goals would be regularly scored from a variety of positions, this is no longer possible in the fourth edition. Headers invariably fly over the bar, ranged shots are easily blocked by defenders or the opposing goalkeeper, attempts on goal from anywhere but the most direct of positions will by skewed wide. The only reliable source of goalscoring opportunities is the standard through ball, followed by a simple tap-in.

The problem is, Pro Evo 4 isn't even particularly difficult. I've only lost two games during my time playing it (that's on the highest difficulty setting, too) and when I moved up from Five to the hidden Six Star difficulty I noticed no change at all. The problem is, creating chances is no trouble at all. In a ten-minute match getting twenty shots on goal is hardly uncommon. However, these attacks are so rarely successful that winning matches becomes a case of pummeling the goalmouth until a lucky deflection or penalty goes your way.

Why is converting chances so difficult? Well, that's easy. The game is far too random. Remember back in the old days when CPU defenders would gain a magical burst of energy to allow them to keep up with your strikers? It's far, far worse in this edition. The speed boost given to opposing defences means that you'll see Aghahowa being outpaced by Southgate on numerous occasions, even with a head start. Should you escape the clutches of aging defenders, you'll meet the superhuman goalkeepers, who will stop a worrying proportion of your shots, leaving you with only a single route; to go around them and walk the ball into the net. This is of course if you've managed to control the ball in the first place, since players on Pro Evo 4 have a worrying habit of letting the ball slip from their grasp with uncanny regularity. Seeing Thierry Henry tamely let the ball roll over his foot and into the hands of the goalie is quite a common occurence on PES4.

But do these factors make the game harder? Not at all, because you'll still be averaging 20 shots a game, and therefore winning consistently. Even this doesn't give you much to smile about, since most of your goals will be identical, with very little in the way of creativity. Goals from outside the area are incredibly rare, and because of the trial-and-error nature of scoring, coupled with the limited variation, goals don't have that same sense of achievement that they did is PES3. I've yet to be truly excited by a goal on the new game.

I don't think that Pro Evo 4 is a bad game. Far from it, in fact. I think that it's a great simulation of football. However, I think that in trying to make the game more realistic, they've sucked the fun out of the series. Indeed, players sometimes mess up. Thirty-yard strikes sometimes go horribly wide, and even the best players lose control of the ball on occasion, but seeing these things occur through no fault of your own isn't fun at all. Realism is one thing, but Pro Evolution is still a game, and ultra-realism should be sacrificed if it detracts from the fun factor of the game.

I'm sure that the majority of you won't agree with me, and that you're enjoying this game as much as the last. I don't want to take that away from you, I just want to voice my opinion. Like I said before, Pro Evolution Soccer 4 isn't a bad game, it's just not my cup of tea. More teams and options aside, PES3 remains the definitive football game for me.

NM
10-21-2004, 10:41 AM
I know what you mean. I've been playing the game for the past few days since is release. Scoring really is a nightmare. Every time I get near goal the opposition has 8 players in there 18yard box making getting a shot off impossible. Or you get a through ball perfectly into your strikers path only for them to do try and place it with a tame side footed shot. I'm constantly shouting at the game for them to crack the damn ball into the top corner.

The pace of the defenders seems just like it was in Pro Evo 3 with the opposition always been faster than you even when you have the better team. Just to test things out I played a game last nite of England Vs WillemII (Some lame Dutch team, I applogise to any fans of this team in advance. But going by the stats in the game they suck. :D ) Now when Michael Owen and Wayne Rooney can't outrun there defenders, I find that a little dodgy. But hey like I said seems just like Pro Evo 3 to me

I do like the game but sometime is like break through a brick wall, trying to get a shot off at the goal. The other thing thats bugging me is when your try to move the ball out into some free space down the left or right flank for your wingers to run onto. As the computr decides to send the ball straight forward to your lone crowded out striker for the oppositions defenders to pick up with ease.

It's still a good football game and there are improvments that I like. But it does feel like a battle sometimes rather than a game of football.

But I still have my copy of Pro Evo 3 and infact 2. So if I do get sick of it i'll just go back to 3. :)

Oh and i've found that Real Madrid seem to be the only team cable of sending a 35 yard screamer into the top corner regardless of who you kick the ball with. :tongue:

Doc Sark
10-21-2004, 12:27 PM
I think in every Pro Evolution game there have been horrible flaws in the gameplay despite it being vastly better than any other football simulation on the market. Most irritatingly perhaps in Pro Evo 4 are the goalkeepers downright complacency. I don't know whether anyone has noticed that the goalkeepers tend to not bother with diving if the ball is headed just wide, or on to the post! I find this bizarre. Having scored an absolute belter in off the post with Jay Jay Okocha the other day from about 25 yards out, I was disappointed to see the goalie make no attempt to get it. This wasn't an isolated incident. Jerzy Dudek made no attempt on a Deco shot he could easily have saved and I went a goal down, similarly Niemi felt that my drive with Makelele from near the half way line wasn't worth bothering with even though it game back off the post!

To add to my frustration, it would seem that the games capacity to deal with red and yellow cards has not improved. If i get clear through on goal and am hauled down by a defender, slide tackle or no, that player should be sent off, or yellow carded at the very least. Yet another oversight by Konami in the rules of the game.

Scoring can be frustrating, but I think ultimately it is more realistic, something that I appreciate a lot. Pro Evo 3 was getting broing for me as I was competing with myself as to how many goals I could score in ten minutes, the record being 13. A real game would often see in excess of 10-15 shots from one team and only produce one or two goals. Personally I have scored some lovely goals from great build up play which I find just as exciting as scoring a free kick or long range effort. I think the way the players shoot is much better, they keep the ball relatively low depending on the power and the range of shots available is vast. Heading has become more difficult but I think this is as a result of defenders rightly dealing with the balls in a lot better.

As for the speed issue. Players will run significantly slower with the ball at their feet. This has been the case throughout the Pro Evo series. Try knocking the ball in front of you when you are past the last defender using R2 to get away from your man.

I'm loving this game quite frankly, much more than the last one which became tedious and samey towards the end of its shelf-life in my opinion. I was getting fed up with thrashing teams by 6 or 7 goals regularly, the challenge was gone. When you can beat the French with the Saudi's albeit 1-0 AET, you know you've gone as far as you can go in the game. The players make much more intelligent runs, the keepers are much improved (other than the above mentioned gripe) they don't tend to let in the soft soft goals they were guilty of doing in Pro Evo 3, the defenders are much better at dealing with crosses, you have to think a lot more about the shot before you play it, the emphasis is on creating a goal not running to the edge of the D and burying it bottom corner ala Pro Evo 1,2 and 3. I guess the commentary is still cack but hey, you can't have it all.

Cz
10-21-2004, 04:58 PM
There's no doubt that many of these tweaks do make the game far more similar to a real football match (although I still think Henry should be able to beat Heinze for pace, ball or no ball) and that the game is far closer to the sport as a result. However, as much as we love it, football can be dreadfully dull at times, especially when you don't have a strong connection to one of the teams. I look to Pro Evolution for a slightly different type of game. Unrealistic perhaps, but still fun.

Not that PES4 hasn't delivered that on occasion. My first 30-minute match was an absolute thriller, seeing me go three goals down before clawing back to win 4-3. The problem is that these games are far too rare, with One/Two-Nil victories being far more common. I haven't scored any truly exciting goals, either. One or two have been bullet-headers or cheeky lobs, a couple of dozen have been the result of intricate build-up play, but the majority are simple tap-ins from a low cross, or lucky deflections that the goalkeeper really should have dived for (I've noticed that problem as well, Doc Sark).

Of course, it's not all doom and gloom as my first post might have suggested. Defending is much more realistic now, with interceptions being much easier to pull off. Set pieces are much better in the new game, with picking out a specific player more important to success than simply hopefully knocking the ball into the box. And of course, the new teams and customisation options are a bonus.

However, it all adds up to somewhat of a disappointment for me. It's still a great football game, and is miles ahead of FIFA 2005 (which is as irritating to play as ever) but doesn't evoke the same sense of joy that PES3 did a year ago.

NM
10-21-2004, 05:56 PM
Well after today i've decided to get rid of PES4 and i'll go back to playing PES3. I know this new version is more like football but it just isn't fun to play. For me anyway.

I must've played 50+ matchs and each one is just a chore to get through. Goals are hard to come by and there's no real sense of achivement to them once you do score. It get's dull trying to break through an 8 man defence and when you do manage it your striker can't hit the broad side of a barn. The amount of 6 yard shots they managed to send wide of the post is just stupid.

But the worst thing for me is that when you play the better teams, like France for example, they manage to rip your defence apart time and time again with 2 players. I don't know what it is but the AI controlled players just seem stupid when there on your side, and have a habit of watching balls roll right past them without even making an effort to intercept them.

It is an improvment on PES3 in the reality stakes but to me it's just frustrating, dull and no fun what so ever to play.

Doc Sark
10-21-2004, 10:28 PM
Ah NM don't bail on PES4!!!!! You just need more shooting practice. Try the shooting training, I know it sounds patronising but I did it and it really helps. Especially for long range efforts! The biggest disappointment for me is 6 star. When I posted this morning I was yet to unlock it. I have now unlocked it.

I played an International Cup with Brazil 27 goals later, 16 from Ronaldo, I was the Champion. This included a 6-0 victory over England in the final. I have owned this game for 3 days. 3 days, and I owned 6 star like a little bitch. That's not right. Hardened Pro Evo players will be looking for more of a challenge from the new installment and you really just don't get it. Goals are actually really easy to come by now. 1 on 1 just wait for the goalie to come then slot it low past him. I dunno bout anyone else but I enjoy scoring goals from intricate build up play (Czanthor you been watching Arsenal too much!!!), and its cheeky to have a go from 30 yards out because the shooting action from distance is much better than PES3. If you hit a shot from way out in 3 it invariably went high and wide but the players seem to have more control.

You actually have to make an effort to intercept balls in this game. Whereas before the CPU did it all for you, a lot more emphasis is placed on you holding the line at the back, ie not bringing Roque Junior charging out of the back 4 to challenge Nicky Butt, it leaves a massive hole in your line and the opposition more often than not expose it. Just like real football.

BUT ITS TOO DAMN EASY!!!! I love Brazil and France's formation! It's time for me to play Master League, hopefully that will pose more of a challenge than the international cup! I am in love with Adriano, I scored an absolute belter with him from 20 yards, rifled low in to the bottom corner. Have either of you tried the new Free Kick tactic, I get the feeling that once mastered it could become a useful weapon against your mates, after all playing your mates is where the real fun in this game lies!

Cz
10-22-2004, 05:53 PM
You know, I'm starting to enjoy this a little more, now. I'm not entirely sure how, but I suddenly became far better at this game overnight. I've started reading the flow of the game much better, and it's paying off with a selection of fabulous goals. I guess in this case practice really does make perfect.

I've still got a few problems. The game remains embarrassingly easy, which pretty much stops me from playing as a half-decent side if I want any semblance of a challenge. The AI makes some awful errors at times (Peter Cech let a chipped pass drift millimetres over his head in to an empty net, last night) and editing kits and badges is as laborious as ever, but the overall package is improving. I wouldn't give up on it just yet, NM. Give it a little more time to wow you, and see how things work out.

Maybe it's just me. I seem to remember having similar grievences over PES3... :D

Doc Sark
10-24-2004, 11:53 PM
Maybe it's just me. I seem to remember having similar grievences over PES3...

Me too. It's all about dealing with and adjusting too change.