Tiamat-Bahamut = connection?

[Itsunari 2000]

Ok , this has really intrigued me for sometime now ,but I've always suspected if there's any kind of connection between Tiamat and Bahamut. The similarity between the two , at least physically , is pretty obvious.

Is Tiamat really a future version of Bahamut enslaved and corrupted by Ultimecia , to do her bidding ?Or just a " dark " Bahamut created by her in the King of the Dragons image ?

Discuss. :)

[Ultima Shadow]

I prefere to call Timat "Bahamuts evil twin". :cool:

[Chris]

The Tiamat in FFVIII looks like Bahamut but the original Tiamat looks nothing like Bahamut at all.

http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Stage/5132/Tiamat2.JPG

[Rinoa_Galatea]

That's true Chris. However, Tiamat (as I understeanded) is like a futuristic version of Bahamut. Tiamat used to be a good Guardian Force, until Ultimecia corrupted him. The truth is, I don't know where's Tiamat from, or even when he appeared on the FFVIII world, but that's what you read when you Scan Tiamat "This Guardian Force Used To Be Good, Until Ultimecia Corrupted Him" or something like that. The image doesn't care, it's a game ^^!

[BG-57]

I was wondering, with all the R=U threads running around, why not a B=T thread? ;)

It's certainly possible. Since Ultimecia is from the future, theoretically all her servants might merely be corruptions of present day characters. Tiamat's 'Dark Flare' attack is a dark version of Bahamut's 'Mega Flare'.

The most intriguing line about Tiamat is it mentions 'A GF corrupted by Ultimecia', without specifying a GF in particular. So it's also possible that Tiamat was always a GF distinct from Bahamut. There's no reason to suppose that the party owns all the GF's out there. Tiamat could even exist in their time. I even wrote a fanfiction where Tiamat is Cid's GF.

But in the end, like R=U, the evidence is not overwhelming. I like the idea of Bahamut and Tiamat at least being related. Family feuds make for dramatic storylines.

[FatedChild]

Does anyone think that it's coincidence that Eden is located in the Deep Sea Research centre near Bahumat, and then later can be drawn from Taimat?

[Braindead_Paul]

AND Bahamut lives above a Weapon just like Tiamat.

So UW = OW! ;)

[Itsunari 2000]

Stumbled across an interesting piece of information : Tiamat is a beast who appears in ancient Babylonian mythology as a vile serpent who terrorized mortal man until the emergence of Marduk (also Bella Marduk), a great warrior. Slaying Tiamat ,Marduk used the serpent's body to divide heaven and earth , cutting out his eyes and scattering them into the cosmos ( one becoming the moon , the other the sun). Other GFs and assorted Eidolons that appear in the FF series can be traced to gods and deities of ancient mythology( Odin , Ramuh , Gilgamesh , Shiva etc.)

[Chris]

Tiamat is actually Bahamut that Ultimecia transformed into a monster.
It was Squall, Rinoa and the other that had Bahamut.

When you scan Tiamat you get:

Tiamat
Used to be a GF. Became a monster under Ultimecia's power.
Its Dark Flare destroys all enemies.
Not only they look exactly the same to the exception of the color.
(Which is due to the transformation Ultimecia/Rinoa did to them)
But there is also their attack.
Bahamut attack ? Mega Flare.
Tiamat attack ? Dark Flare.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Tiamat is not necessarily Bahamut. If it were, it'd probably have been called Dark Bahamut, like in FFIV. Just because Tiamat was turned evil at some point doesn't mean its name was changed. It was always Tiamat.

[Ultima Shadow]

But isn't it strange that Timat is so damn much weaker than Bahamut?
And if they're the same... then shouldn't Timat be named "Dark Bahamut" instead or something?
I still think they're just twins. :tongue:

[Chris]

Yeah Tiamat was a walkover, Aura-Renzokuken = dead Tiamat.

[Auronhart]

Yeah, a total pushover, you can even absorb dark flare. :D

[Mo-Nercy]

Does anyone think that it's coincidence that Eden is located in the Deep Sea Research centre near Bahumat, and then later can be drawn from Tiamat?
In the future, Bahamut eventually defeats all the Ruby Dragons in that place and changes class to Tiamat, at which point he kills Ultima Weapon and draws Eden from him. Duh.

[Rusty]

I doubt that Tiamat is Bahamut turned evil in the game. Other than the fact that you can use Bahamut to kill Tiamat. That would mean he could kill himself in the future. I'm not sure how that works.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/aspara/baha.htm

Tiamat is actually female and is the goddess of the chromatic (evil) dragons, while Bahamut is the god of the metallic (good) dragons.

Tiamat would still have been a Guardian Force in the game corrupted by Ultimecia, except that she's always been Tiamat, not Bahamut.

Thats just how I see it anyway :)

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Tiamat is actually female and is the goddess of the chromatic (evil) dragons, while Bahamut is the god of the metallic (good) dragons.In Dungeons & Dragons, not Final Fantasy.

[Flashback007]

Ok, it is very well possible that Tiamat is actually Bahamut.
"Used to be a GF. Became a monster under Ultimecia's power". Ok. If Ultimicea knew to defeated him, she also could change his name. And the attacks are like the same. And Tiamat is much easier then Bahamut, because that he resisted to Ultimecia using a lot of his powers. Then about the WEAPONS, they are also almost at the same place. I readt somewhere on this forum that there was an similartie between the clock tower and the Deep See Center. They even suggested that they were the same. Then Eden. Ok, in the future, Bahamut knows to defeat Ultima Weapon so that he can draw Eden. When then Omega Weapon appears, Bahamut also battled with him, but soon so his defeat, went back to his place. Then Ultimecia came, who (suprise, suprise) wants a powerfull GF. She defeated Bahamut, corrupted his soul and named him Tiamat.

[Braindead_Paul]

Isn't Bahamut still at the Research Center on Disc 4 if you didn't get him before?
So he would be at two places at the same time... :confused:

[Sefie1999AD]

Tiamat is not necessarily Bahamut. If it were, it'd probably have been called Dark Bahamut, like in FFIV. Just because Tiamat was turned evil at some point doesn't mean its name was changed. It was always Tiamat.

What Kishi said. FFIV's final dungeon had evil versions of both Leviathan and Bahamut, and they were called Tidariathan (Ogopogo in FF2 US) and Dark Bahamut (Wyvern in FF2 US). Most likely Tidariathan and DB aren't the same as their original versions, though. They are different in some ways, and you can also summon Leviathan and Bahamut against those foes in FFIV. The same goes with FFVIII's Bahamut and Tiamat, even though that battle is fought in the future.

[Itsunari 2000]

[QUOTE=Rusty]I doubt that Tiamat is Bahamut turned evil in the game. Other than the fact that you can use Bahamut to kill Tiamat. That would mean he could kill himself in the future. I'm not sure how that works.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/aspara/baha.htm

So , Tiamat is not a future version of Bahamut , enslaved and corrupted by Ultimecia but a separate being created by Ultimecia in an alternate time period ... so , no connection ???

[Remnant]

Bahumut could conceivably kill himself in the future. Remember the Squall could meet himself in the past. FFVIII makes no limitations on such things. Now, Tiamat killing Bahumut would be tricker, but time compression might suspend normal rules.

That said, I'm of the opinion that Bahumut and Tiamat are entirely separate entities, though they may be associated with one another.

[blue_midget192]

Yeah, a total pushover, you can even absorb dark flare. :D

yup i absorbed it and was plesently surprised! :) dunno how i did it. also i lvoe your sig!!

any way i am also of the opinion that Bahumut and Tiamat are different things, but are related brother, cousin is the word hat the officail guide uses i think. im quite annoyed now that i didn't scan him, but o well :)

[Del Murder]

Maybe they are cousins.

[NM]

Maybe Square were just lazy and couldn't be bothered to make another 3D model for Timat so re-used the Bahamut model and changed the colour. :D

[Lyndiny 1445 4eva]

its sounds like a pretty weird rumour but ive been told dat tiamat is bahumets bro or summin but for all we know dar could be no connection just dat there same sorta thing an dat summin or other ooo i dnt no but well dun m8 dis is a well gd question its had me thinkin since i 1st read it lol :D

[Devourment]

Tiamat is a futuristic version of Bahamut brought together by Ultimecia i think...to try & finish squall & the others off before the party reaches her...but the battle is optional though....Hmmmm???

[Itsunari 2000]

Definitely a connection ...

[Slade]

It's certainly possible. Since Ultimecia is from the future, theoretically all her servants might merely be corruptions of present day characters.

Hmmm that sounds about right. I mean, youve got a corupted Visage (Gargantua), a corupted Behemoth (Catoblepas), a corupted Iron Giant (Red Giant) so im all in favor for Taimat being a corupted Bahamut.

And this probably gonna sound a bit lame and i dont blame you if you wanna kick me but have you noticed that Tri Point looks like an evil version of the Ragonarok?..........maybe im just talking out my arse but just remember, stranger things have happened.

[nihowma buffet]

i really don't see them mixing the two characters. both had their first appearances in ff1. tiamat was the fourth fiend, and bahamut ruled the other dragons in the cardia(?) islands. it's always been my assumption that since bahamut was for the most part always a help to your party, he was always "good" and since tiamat never helps your party and is generally always a boss, then he's always "evil".

in ff1 especially, i see tiamat as a rogue dragon from bahamut's clan that came into power from garland/chaos, and possibly underwent a cosmetic change as well.

any logic to this?

[Sepho]

Isn't Bahamut still at the Research Center on Disc 4 if you didn't get him before?
So he would be at two places at the same time... :confused:

It can be assumed that once you enter any of the portals to or from Ultimecia's castle, you're changing times. Moreover, during disk four, "time compression" is in place, and the idea of making sense of time can be discarded entirely.

[Future Esthar]

Hey,think a little.Ultimecia´s castle was on the past.Deep sea´s floor ruins is what remains.Oh,and I think Griever (second form) is similar to the Ragnarok.Is the legend of the dragon ship something like this "Once upon a time there was a sorceress that entered inside a monster controling his body to fly..."?

[blue_midget192]

It can be assumed that once you enter any of the portals to or from Ultimecia's castle, you're changing times. Moreover, during disk four, "time compression" is in place, and the idea of making sense of time can be discarded entirely.

lol :)


Hey,think a little.Ultimecia´s castle was on the past.Deep sea´s floor ruins is what remains.Oh,and I think Griever (second form) is similar to the Ragnarok.Is the legend of the dragon ship something like this "Once upon a time there was a sorceress that entered inside a monster controling his body to fly..."?

sorry where did you gwt that from? :confused:

[Future Esthar]

You wanna the explanation for what?

[rubah]

The reason Tiamat (in mythology) was killed was to create the world from her body. . .

They put this stuff in our history books, and every time I've seen Tiamat and Gilgamesh (especially him) I have to laugh. And no one in class knows what I'm laughing about.

I've never really noticed a similarity between tiamat and bahamut. Of course I see their cards more often than anything else, and it's all 'Woohoo, his card is blue, his is purple.'

An iron giant GF would be cool. auto-protect and auto-shell perhaps.

[Sidu]

I am under the impression that Taimet and Bahamet are in fact the same GF. There is more evidence than people believe there to be. We know all the GF's in the world dont necessarily belong to Squall&co therefor in ultecimia's time after the death of Squall Their GF's must eventually become someone elses GF. Therefore if you read the scan this way Used to be a good GF(when he was with squall) Now corrupted by Ulticimia(now he is simply Ulticimia's GF) I Also Believe that all the enemies you fight in her castle are GF's. With exception of Omega Weapon. Omega weapon is quite simply a weapon! you see GF's are at the bidding of their master correct? Then isn't it possible to believe that all GF's could be either good or bad. Also when you recieved the new GF's weren't you able to pick the name? So in theory Ulticimia could have simply changed bahamut's name?!

[tellahd]

It can be assumed that once you enter any of the portals to or from Ultimecia's castle, you're changing times. Moreover, during disk four, "time compression" is in place, and the idea of making sense of time can be discarded entirely.


if you do change time zone why can you not enter citys

[Shoden]

wel Tiamat looks better than Bahamut i say i think they are related or connected (tiamat maybe a clone that got corrupted)