And the Next Scene of Violence is...Detroit.

[Kirobaito]

Wow. This was...something else. Frankie Francisco who?

For those who have lived under a rock for the last hour (xD), what just took place toward the end of the Pacers-Pistons game is shocking and appalling.

The scene begins when Ron Artest fouls Ben Wallace from behind. Subjectively, not that hard of a foul. Certainly not flagrant. Ben Wallace overreacts and shoves Artest. The Pacers and Pistons separate those players. Perhaps there could have been the end of the story.

A Detroit fan them throws <i>something</i> at Ron Artest. Beer, perhaps, I missed that part of the situation. Artest then goes ballistic and jumps the press table and gets into the stands. He just starts beating up on these fans. The Pacers follow him into the stands attempting to draw him away. However, Indiana guard Stephen Jackson joins Artest in the brawl. Jermaine O'Neal also takes some swings at fans. It takes security, other fans, and Detroit players to get the Pacers out of the stands.

At that point, the game had to be called. Artest and Jackson were escorted out first, having beer and food and cups hurled at them. Jermaine O'Neal followed, withstanding the same treatment.

Jackson should get around a 10-game suspension for his actions. Artest is a completely different story. As we all know, this is not the first time he's gotten out of hand :p. I really think this is the last straw. <b>Enough second chances.</b> Provoked or not, he should never jump into the stands and start wailing on fans, even those who did nothing to him. I don't think this is even comparable to the Frankie Francisco incident. This was far, far worse. I hate to say it...but I never want to see Ron Artest play another NBA game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=241119008

[The Captain]

Wow, sports is getting more out of hand with every single day.

Artest should be done, the league is better off without him. Let him go make R&B albums.


Also, where was the security?

Take care all.

[Dingo Jellybean]

How did I know either you or The Captain would make this thread?

Well, anyways...I saw numerous replays. What happened was ugly. Ron Artest went into the stands and knocked down a fan...worst was that Stephen Jackson went into the stands and didn't try to restrain Artest, but knocked out another fan.

Artest was just laying at the scorer's table and then a fan throws a bottled beer at him, but the foul he put on Wallace wasn't that hard of a foul.

Stephen Jackson should be fined 1 million...no way should any athlete jump into the stands and brawl with fans. They're paying your salaries, even if they are fans in another city. Athletes are much bigger and stronger than any fan in the stands, it should never happen.

[The Captain]

Does anyone else think that enough is enough, it's time to ban alcohol or severely restrict how many one can buy at sporting events? I HAVE to believe that much of what the fans did, (which was probably the worst thing I've ever seen, outside of Monica Seles getting stabbed: I mean challenging players to fights?!), was because they were drunk.

Take care all.

[Kirobaito]

I think the most important question in this whole situation is...

If Artest is ejected from the NBA, what on earth will Proto do?

:D

For those who missed it, I'll post a link of the video once my friend gets it up on his server.

EDIT: I wanted to bring up that same thing, Dev. Very good point.

[Dingo Jellybean]

While I do admit that the fans who threw the drinks had what was coming to them, what was more uglier was Stephen Jackson's reaction. NEVER should a player TRY to continue a fight.

[Kirobaito]

Upon further review, Jermaine O'Neal was not innocent in this debacle.

Here's my hopes:

Jackson, O'Neal: 10 games
Wallace: 7 games (he hit Artest, but he didn't fight <i>fans</i>
Artest: Life

[The Captain]

I'm really still at a loss of words for what to really make of everything. Artest tried to stay out but had something thrown on him which blew his very short fuse and that started the real chaos.

I forsee some criminal charges being posted on the fans and perhaps some of the players, but no one's hands are clean in this issue.

Alcohol and high emotion do not mix.

EDIT: Watching the tape a tenth time I noticed that Artest actually grabbed and tried to calm down Jackson.

Take care all.

[Dingo Jellybean]

If there's a lesson to be learned, if you're drunk...never go after someone much bigger than you. This is the case with 6'7" 250 lb. Ron Artest.

It's one of the ugliest incidents I have ever witnessed. But I don't think Ron Artest should be banned for life. The league wouldn't ban him for life either. He should get at least 20 games.

I disagree with giving J'O'Neal 10 games. He might deserve a few games, but 10 is too many. Wallace should get a couple.

But I was surprised by Artest's reaction after being shoved in the face by Ben Wallace. Usually he'll explode, but I guess he was wise not to go after Big Ben...I know I wouldn't...unless I was Shaq or something.

[Del Murder]

That was by far the worst type of incident like that I've ever seen. Sure beats 'chair into the stands'. I've seen fans react, but never duke it out with the opposing team like this. At the very least the NBA can be assured that I, one viewer, was entertained by the whole thing, because as far as I know no one was seriously injured. I got to see a nice brawl for free, when I need stupid HBO to watch Sugar Shane tomorrow. I am interested to see the fallout.

As for the booze. Without it no one would go to the games. I, and likely the rest of us, am able to enjoy a live event without drinking, but those of us like that are certainly in the minority. Banning beer would cripple ticket sales and total sales in general, and with player salaries as they are the whole league would crumble. Baseball has a none after the 7th inning rule, and I think football has a third quarter rule. I always assumed the NBA was the same. Is this not true?

Good thing Tinsley stayed out of it. Picking up Croshere was a good move, Cap. :D

[The Captain]

I don't think the NBA has any time limit on beer sales as we saw many fans had what looked like completely full cups of beer to toss on the players, and I would assume someone wouldn't just sit there for a while with a beer, but rather would have just purchased it.

My father actually came up with a good idea: Get rid of that first row and seats and replace it with a "No-man's land" where only security personnal will be allowed to stand if they need, but otherwise will be a vacant spot to push the fans further back. When you think about it, basketball is about the only sport left out there where fans can literally touch the players at nearly any moment. In football, the sidelines are for teams and personnel only, in hockey there's that huge rim around the ice, in baseball, the stands are somewhat away from the field, but in basketball, the fans can stick their feet out and trip a player. Sure, some might see the appeal in this, but frankly, I think it's a sacrifice that needs to be made.

Also, I feel I must add this:
Shame on the NBA Shootaround crew for defending the players who ran into the stands. Do you mean to tell me that a normal reaction for any man is to chase down someone and pummel them? Sure, if you get something thrown at you, you're angry, but that gives you the right to throw a punch? Be the bigger man, I say. Get over your ego. Now, if a fan actually charged someone, like those dumb Pistons fans who stood in front of Artest when he was trying to exit and looked ready to fight, then I can understand self-defense, but trying to tell me that athletes have it rough and can justify lashing out very violently because they need to defend themselves is a silly argument. To me, athletes are just like journalists: they have glass jaws. They can dish it out, but when it comes back, they go down or look for ways to get out of trouble. Sure, what the fans did was horrible, but jumping into the stands and throwing punches only made the situation worse. Put your ego aside and use some common sense, someone.

EDIT: This sums up what I think as well: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ratto_ray&id=1927360

Take care all.

[eestlinc]

Just another reason why the NBA is horrible. The crazy drive to bring fans as close to the action as possible doesn't seem so smart now. At least hockey has protective plexiglass barriers.

Anyway, if you are a stupid drunk fan and you start a fight with an NBA player, you deserve to get your ass beaten down.

[Dingo Jellybean]

ESPN lost a lot of journalistic integrity. How can Stephen A Smith say that? It's a real shame though, but I never watch ESPN's crappy network anyways.

[Kirobaito]

And Stephen A. Smith is a complete idiot, and that's something I've always thought. I love it when Greg Anthony just beats him down.

[escobert]

Yeah I saw this on espn last night. Crazy. The fans should get in trouble too.

[Shadow8017]

I've searched high and low for a video link to this ... anyone know of one?

[Kirobaito]

Yeah, apparently it took my friend a LONG time to get it up on his server. But here it is. The quality had to be reduced to fit it.

http://webpages.charter.net/gline/PacersPistonsFansBrawl-111904-jong.avi

[Casey]

Aw dude, I saw that on FOX news, I was rooting* for those Basketball Players to beat up those "fans" that were throwing crap at them.

[Strider]

Ron Artest will be suspended by the NBA for a record 30 games according to a report on Fox Sports Radio. Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson of the Pacers will also be out of action for 20 games each while Pistons star Ben Wallace will miss five games for their roles in the fight in Detroit Friday night.

Fred McLeod, play-by-play voice of the Pistons on FSN Detroit, reported on the suspensions during a live radio interview on GameTime react with Ben Maller and Chris Landry on Fox Sports Radio Saturday night.

Yeah, that isn't a typo. 30 games.

EDIT:

Oh, yes, and apparently every single player on the Detroit Pistons will serve a one-game suspension for leaving the bench for the fight. Every player, that is, except Tayshaun Prince. Good for him, I say.

[eestlinc]

My man, Tayshaun. Way to represent the Riot with class. Billups, you make me sad...

[The Captain]

So, Detriot has to forfeit a game?

For Artest at least, he'll get his month off to promote.

In all seriousness, the NBA must set this up correctly to prevent any further actions from happening in the near future.

Take care all.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Yet another reason why I so dislike the heavy emphasis on sports in this country, as opposed to more intellectual pursuits.

[Del Murder]

Go Tinsley!

[Dingo Jellybean]

Yeah, that isn't a typo. 30 games.

EDIT:

Oh, yes, and apparently every single player on the Detroit Pistons will serve a one-game suspension for leaving the bench for the fight. Every player, that is, except Tayshaun Prince. Good for him, I say.

Not actually. The record is 63 games by Latrell Spreewell for choking P.J. Carlisemo. It was actually a full year suspension before the NBA reduced it.

[Kirobaito]

Bloody hell. Jermaine O'Neal's replacement is going to be Mehmet OKUR. >< There goes my good start to this Fantasy season.

[krissy]

Why should the player be punished for responding to an assault with assault?

It was provoked, it was assault, it was responded to with assault. It's no different than a fight out in the streets. Guy doesn't deserve a suspension.

Behold the Void: Sports get the blood flowing to the brain.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Behold the Void: Sports get the blood flowing to the brain.

However, all the beer in one's bloodstream doesn't exactly make it a good thing.

[krissy]

That's right, I forgot it's a requirement to drink during every single sport ever every time.

Ever heard of the Buffalo Theory or whatever it's called? Wolves take out the weakest in a herd of a buffalo first. Beer takes out the weakest of our brain cells first, thereby leaving a better working envoronment for the stronger brain cells.


Seriously back on topic though; I am personally not above beating someone up if they throw beer in my eyes. Apparently he punched the wrong guy though. Oh well, things happen.

[Dingo Jellybean]

That's right, I forgot it's a requirement to drink during every single sport ever every time.

Ever heard of the Buffalo Theory or whatever it's called? Wolves take out the weakest in a herd of a buffalo first. Beer takes out the weakest of our brain cells first, thereby leaving a better working envoronment for the stronger brain cells.


Seriously back on topic though; I am personally not above beating someone up if they throw beer in my eyes. Apparently he punched the wrong guy though. Oh well, things happen.

What's worst is that the guy who threw the cup restrained Artest back and took two shots at him on the back of the head before Artest realized it was him.

[The Captain]

Wow, I didn't think Stern would do it but he did:

Artest - Suspended the rest of the season
Jackson- 30 games
O'Neal - 25 games
Wallace - 6 games.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1928540

Take care all.

[Agent Proto]

Well there goes Yes. down the toilet.

[Dingo Jellybean]

Oh man...that penalty shocked the hell out of me. But I love the NBA for being harsh instead of the wrist-slapping NFL. The NBA is my favorite league, but I think these suspensions will set a CLEAR example.

I think it's justified...but here goes crappy ESPN telling us how players should be protected.

Jermaine O'Neal got a good suspension for 25 games. He cold-cocked a guy who wasn't even looking instead of trying to restrain him. Worst off, the fan was already knocked down by Ron Artest.

But ron Artest deserves this, he has had a problem losing his temper in the past. I'm tired of guys like him getting off. Thankfully he's not paid much relatively to other players, so this will be a SERIOUS financial hit...unlike the hit J'Oneal got. He signed a pretty good contract for over 100 mil, so this won't seriously hurt him financially.

[krissy]

Artest has some chemical imbalance in the brain. He doesn't take his medication for it because 'it affects his performance'.

[Dingo Jellybean]

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3190072

Talk about adding insult to injury.

[edczxcvbnm]

I think the NBA should have done a different kind of penalty to Artest. Taking him out for the rest of the year isn't going to solve his problem. They should have just suspended him until he can prove he can maintain control of his actions. Things like conselling and anger management. Obviously he would still be out for the rest of the year but he needs to get some help and I don't think that just a suspension is the answer.

I also don't like how this whole thing has been played off. I think the NBA needs to come out and make just as drastic remarks to the fans like "If you get caught doing this sort of thing then you will be banned for life." They also need to stop alcohal sales at some point during the game because all that beer isn't helping matters.

[Dingo Jellybean]

The problem with the NBA is that it has that "thug" image, that hip-hop image. They're not getting Will Smiths and LL Cool Js, they're getting people like 50 Cent. It appeals to the ghettos because of how the NBA promotes itself. Every NBA commercial you'll see hip-hop music playing in the background and seeing NBA players celebrate over-control-like.

In the NFL, you see the highlights. Same thing with the MLB. The NBA markets itself to where it is strongest, to the urban homes that watches them. The suburb areas don't have that great of interest in the NBA, that's why no one pays attention to the regular season until a few weeks after the all-star break(namely, after March Madness). The MLB, well...no one pays attention to it until all the winter sports are over like NHL and NBA. The MLB has it all to itself during the summer time.

The NFL seems to demolish competition everywhere. You can put it on during the summer and people still watch.

[edczxcvbnm]

I don't like 50 cent and I live in the suburbs...must be a fluke :D

I try to watch the NBA but its not like they play on the weekends at a certain time like the NFL. ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox are not going to pre-empt their programming to bring you the 43rd game of the season. I don't have cable so I am <img src=http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/lovesmile.gif><img src=http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/lovesmile.gif><img src=http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/lovesmile.gif><img src=http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/lovesmile.gif>ed for the most part when it comes to watching NBA basketball...at least till the play offs start to roll around.

No way to MLB. After the NBA finals its all about Golf!

I would argue about how they market themselves but I can't really come up with much other than to say the NFL markets itself to alcohalics who can't get it up :D

[Raistlin]

*posts late*

In an ideal world, Artest would've beaten the <img src=http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/lovesmile.gif><img src=http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/lovesmile.gif><img src=http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/lovesmile.gif><img src=http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/lovesmile.gif> out of the bastard that threw the beer in the first place, and then would've been banned from the league for life.

EDIT: oh, and those fans that hurled drinks/food/chairs at the Pacers while they were being hurried off the court...well, they just need to die.