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Baloki
12-08-2004, 05:22 PM
Written by Maciamo on 9 May 2004 (http://www.jref.com/language/japanese_suffixes.shtml)

Untranslatable
First of all, watch out for preconceived ideas. Contrarily to what many foreigners and Japanese alike usually think, "san" is not the equivalent of "mister" or "mrs". For example, "san" can also be used for animals, and not just for cats and dogs, but for any animal. Even a spider can be called "kumo-san" (especially by children). It also works with pictures, so that you could call a tiger or monkey on a painting "tora-san" or "saru-san". Cockroaches (gokiburi), which most Japanese strongly dislike, seem to be the exception that confirms the rule, as almost nobody will give them a suffix at all.

Let us say that Japanese suffixes are simply untranslatable into English. The reverse is also true, as "Mr", "Mrs", "Miss" or "Ms" are also untranslatable in Japanese.

Besides, Japanese prefixes can be used either with first or last names, while "Mr" and "Mrs" are never used just with given names in English.


Gender issue
Interestingly, Japanese language does not differentiate gender, while Japanese have always attached a lot of importance to gender roles separation in the society, and still believe strongly in it nowadays. Could it be that the absence of gender nuance in the language reflects by a stronger traditional rift between men and women ?
Politeness levels
Gender notwithstanding, Japanese suffixes show various levels of respect, which we could compare to English as follow :

# san, sama 様 => Mr, Mrs, Miss
# dono 殿 > Sir, Madam
# kyou 卿 => Lord, Lady, Dame

Nevertheless, "sama" is used for Shinto gods ("kami-sama"). But as there are millions of them, they do not necessarily deserve the same respect or fear as the single and omnipotent Judeo-Christo-Islamic god.

The most referential titles are "denka" 殿下 and "heika" 陛下. The first one means "His/Her/Your Highness" and is used for royal/imperial family members. The second means "His/Her/Your Majesty" and is used for the Emperor or Empress - or King and Queen, in other monarchies around the world.


Everyday suffixes
In everyday life, "san" is the most common suffix. "-chan" is a more affectionate term, used mainly with friends, family members and children. "-tan" is a kind of slang version. "-kun" is usually reserved for boys or young men, but can sometimes be used for girls or young women too. There is also "-shi" 氏, which is an intermediary form between "san" and "sama" in terms of politeness, and is mostly used for professionals like engineers or lawyers.

Then comes "sensei" 先生, which is used for anybody with a knowledge superior to ours. It is most common for doctors, teachers and professors, but can also be used for politicians, martial arts masters, etc. Contrarily to other suffixes so far, "sensei" can be used alone, without a name before it, just like "doctor" or "professor" in English. So, one can say "Nomura-sensei" or just "Sensei", like one could say in English "Professor Nomura" or "Professor".

"Sempai" 先輩 is another very common way of addressing someone with more experience or a hierarchical superior. It can be used alone or after a name, like "sensei".
Flexible politeness
It is possible in Japanese to change the suffix, and politeness level attached to it, you use with one particular person. That means that "politeness" in Japanese is situational and not a fixed status given to someone like in most European languages. You could call a friend or relative alterning the suffix "-chan", "-kun", "-san", "-sama", or even "sensei" if that person is in a position of greater knowledge than you in that situation and teaching you something. A husband teaching his wife how to drive a car or use a computer could be called "sensei" by her at that particular time. She could very well change suffix in the course of the same conversation.
Name short-forms and noun combinations
It is very common for Japanese to use the first syllable of someone's name and combine it with a suffix. For example, "Mi-chan" could be the short-form of Miki, Michiko, Miko, Misa, Minato, Mickey, Minnie, etc.

Suffixes can also be used with some common nouns referring to a person. E.g. "kyaku-san" or "kyaku-sama" (customer, client, guest), "okaa-san" (mother) or, more informally, "okaa-chan" (mum, mom).
Combinations
Suffixes can also be combined in a more or less humoristical manner, like "-chama" (chan + sama), as in "obaa-chama" for "grand-mother", which is both affectionate and respectful. There is a lot of freedom in the possible combinations, which is the absolute opposite of "Mr, Mrs, Miss" in English, which are fixed and non interchangeable.
Situational & emotional VS logical and systematic
In addition, nobody will call a friend or family member "Mr" or "Mrs" in English, while it is habitual in Japanese and has no real meaning. Like many cultural differences between Japan and Western countries, Japanese suffixes do not have a logical meaning or usage, but give an emotional dimension which rely on the situation. It's the same as with the sentence ending "da yo", "da ne", "da yo ne", "da zo", etc.

In other words, we could say that the Western way of thinking is logical, accurate and systematic, while the Japanese (and other East Asian ones) are emotional, vague and situational.


Impolite suffixes
Other less polite suffixes also exist. Their intensity depend a lot on the intonation and context, like "-baka" 馬鹿, or the ever ruder "-yarou" 野郎 (and combination "bakayarou", which is however normally used alone as an insult). So, "kyaku-yarou" would be a very impolite way of talking about a customer someone strongly dislikes. These can also be used individually, like in "ano yarou !" ("this a*shole !") or "baka !" ("mor@n" !)

DMKA
12-08-2004, 05:27 PM
Well, it's clear one of two things is happening...

1) PG has broken into your account.
2) PG hasn't broken into your account.

I have a feeling it's the second one though.

Psychotic
12-08-2004, 07:04 PM
I hate the Japanese language, and the way so many people are like "Omg I will learn it to get a job in Japan and get laid by Japanese chicks they like white guys!!!!!" Just a random fact for ya, Baloki-sensei...OH GOD THEY'RE GETTING TO ME!

Dking'squeen
12-08-2004, 07:16 PM
Just a random fact for ya, Baloki-sensei...OH GOD THEY'RE GETTING TO ME!

Boloki's a teacher?
Hey, where'd you get this from becaue I either have a book and it has the same thing or I've been on that website before...I'm learning Japanese actually, but I know some of the suffixes Balalaika_dono.

Citizen Bleys
12-08-2004, 07:24 PM
Wow, I was expecting a joke, but that's actually entirely accurate.

And I have no idea what the devil could have posessed Baloki to post it...

Dking'squeen
12-08-2004, 07:25 PM
And I have no idea what the devil could have posessed Baloki to post it...

I don't think anyone does...except him and a few others who might not tell us:D

omnitarian
12-08-2004, 07:34 PM
And the moral is,
don't use unknown suffixes.
Otherwise, you're dumb.

Also, don't phrase posts in haiku form.

Maxico
12-08-2004, 07:42 PM
Baloki's gone insane. Hes angry because they wont change his name and nows hes even lost site staff status.

STOP THE MADNESS BALOKI!!!

Mindflare
12-08-2004, 07:49 PM
One more reason to be thankful I don't need to speak Japanese. Or any language past English, for that matter. I haven't the patience for something so deep as Japanese. I didn't even have the patience for Spanish in High School. Though, I guess it would be different if I were in the position where I had to learn it.

In a slightly less extreme way of putting it than Psy did... I don't see much reason for practically everyone to want to know Japanese. It's just another language, really. A good learning experience, but there are many other things out there that are nice things to learn as well.

Anyway... very informative post there. Perhaps I'll actually remember it this time.

DMKA
12-08-2004, 08:18 PM
Actually, when I was in the Navy, I talked to alot of Sailors that had been to Japan (and a few of them had married women from Japan, including my recruiter), and they said you can live and work in Japan without knowing a word of Japanese, because English is practically a second national language there. Makes sense though, cause whenever you look at Japanese products or pictures of Japanese commerce areas, you always see print in English or signs in English, ect.

Mindflare
12-08-2004, 08:28 PM
Makes sense though, cause whenever you look at Japanese products or pictures of Japanese commerce areas, you always see print in English or signs in English, ect.

<a href="http://www.engrish.com/">http://www.engrish.com/</a>

sailorsunbeams
12-08-2004, 08:42 PM
my friend does speak engrish and japanese perfect but not like ne so i jealous her :(

meowwl
12-12-2004, 07:20 AM
Learning spanish, french, german, or italian is a piece of cake compared to japanese..The sentence structure baffles me a bit. Here's a page I found that helps with those troublesome honorifics and pronouns.Japanese culture (http://www.anime.org.au/main/page.php?page=8) and if it doesn't help..Sumimasen..atashi wa baku desu.

Shlup
12-12-2004, 07:57 AM
Along with "-tan" you forgot to mention other slang versions, which is basically anything that sounds cute. Unless I just missed where you said that; I skimmed it.

Very nice tutorial though, Baloki-kun. ^_^

Dr Unne
12-12-2004, 10:17 AM
How to use Japanese suffixes

Just don't. Please.

Peegee
12-12-2004, 11:33 AM
PG-sama thinks this thread is confusing.

Is it true referring to yourself as -sama is conceited?

Shlup
12-12-2004, 12:11 PM
How to use Japanese suffixes

Just don't. Please.
Yeah, it is pretty freaking annoying when anyone outside of Japan does it.

one_winged_angel
12-14-2004, 09:30 PM
Boloki's a teacher?

Ok 1. as Baloki said, sensei can be used at any time when referring to some one with greater knowledge applicable to this situation than yourself, which would be his knowledge of Japanese.

2. Try not to misspell his name like that again lol, it looks a bit offensive.

Spritz
12-14-2004, 10:34 PM
Is Baloki broken?

Baloki
12-14-2004, 11:59 PM
This thread failed, can I move for a closure?

Calliope
12-15-2004, 01:51 AM
who cares?

Dking'squeen
12-15-2004, 02:09 AM
as Baloki said, sensei can be used at any time when referring to some one with greater knowledge applicable to this situation than yourself, which would be his knowledge of Japanese.

yeah i know but it's the first thing that comes to my mind when i hear teh words sensei


Try not to misspell his name like that again lol, it looks a bit offensive.

I"M SORRY! I hadn't realized i spelled it wrong. SOmetimes i have the word in my head and spell it from how i think it sounds and stuff..
I'm sorry Baloki. I didn't mean to spell ur name wrong! :whimper: I'm really sorry about that

one_winged_angel
12-15-2004, 04:53 PM
I"M SORRY! I hadn't realized i spelled it wrong. SOmetimes i have the word in my head and spell it from how i think it sounds and stuff..
I'm sorry Baloki. I didn't mean to spell ur name wrong! I'm really sorry about that

That's what we have the "Preview Post" button for

MecaKane
12-15-2004, 05:32 PM
Kooooonnichihaaaaaaaaaaaa Kane-sama! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai~~~~~~~*** ^^

Baloki
12-16-2004, 03:53 AM
I'm sorry Baloki. I didn't mean to spell your name wrong! :whimper: I'm really sorry about that

Don't worry about it



Kooooonnichihaaaaaaaaaaaa Kane-sama! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai~~~~~~~*** ^^

I suppose someone has to say hi to you at some point.... We love you really kane :love: