The Beginning

[Kamrusepas]

What do you think the place is in the very beginning where Squall and Seifer scar each other?
It's not mentioned anywhere, is it?
Just need that information for a fic... Besides, I've been wondering it for a while :)

[Sweet Beloved]

That's a good question. Maybe somewhere in the training center or outside Balamb. I'm not sure. Now, you've got me ponderin bout it.

[The Great Albino Hippie]

I'm pretty sure i'ts one of the unacsessible bits of the training centre, like were you find elone or something that becomes unacessible.

[rubah]

I always thought it was out on the field. It's open area, with rocks in the background, looks like it'd just be a place between garden and those mountains.

It's definitely outside though. what with the lightning and such. Phenomena like that don't usually occur inside:)

[ShivaBlizzard8]

I had always assumed that it happened on a plateau in the mountainous area around the Fire Cavern, because when Quistis asks Squall why he hadn't been to the Cavern yet, he thinks to himself "I was gonna go this morning, but then Seifer. . . " I got the impression that he was on his way to the Cavern, met Seifer coming out after having passed, and they got into an egotistical battle.

That, and the area 1) looks mountainous, and the only part of the Balamb continant that has mountains is near the Fire Cavern, and 2) because it is obviously outside, whereas the Training Center is contained inside so that the monsters don't escape.

Just my 2 cents. :)

[Yuffie514]

i think Squall and Seifer scarred each other during training at Balamb Garden. that explains why Squall wakes up in the doctor's office.

[Kamrusepas]

Hm, I like ShivaBlizzard's theory :)
It makes sense. I think I'll go with that.
It kinda bugs me tho that it was never mentioned in the game.

[finalheaven]

yeha...i didnt htink of that..^_^ good observation..(outside the fire cavern)

[Shoden]

i agree with it but its just another unanswered question

[Homer Simpson]

Yup seifer jumped cloud when he was on his way to the fire cavern, it's probably round about the balamb area. Thats were i always percieved it as anyway.

[XoXyunalescaXoX]

i dunno, i dont think thats right... i pictured it different... but w/e im usually wrong... x_x

[Rampala]

I had always assumed that it happened on a plateau in the mountainous area around the Fire Cavern, because when Quistis asks Squall why he hadn't been to the Cavern yet, he thinks to himself "I was gonna go this morning, but then Seifer. . . " I got the impression that he was on his way to the Cavern, met Seifer coming out after having passed, and they got into an egotistical battle.

That, and the area 1) looks mountainous, and the only part of the Balamb continant that has mountains is near the Fire Cavern, and 2) because it is obviously outside, whereas the Training Center is contained inside so that the monsters don't escape.

Just my 2 cents. :)
That actually makes a lot of sense, but the only thing that would confuse me about that idea is that how did Squall get back to Balamb Garden and into the medical facility? If it was just him and Seifer and I know Seifer, he wasn't exactly going to carry an injured Squall back to the Garden or tell anyone about it (except for the purposes of gloating).

I always thought it was the training center, mainly because Quistis says to them in class to take it easy on the training. But, I do like Shiva's thought better.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

Nice to see you kicking around the boards again, Rampala! :)

Anyway, that's a good point - I hadn't though about how Squall got back to Garden if he was completely passed out the entire time. And yeah, Seifer doens't strike me as the kind of guy who would carry him back. I guess I would speculate that they couldn't have been completely alone (even though we don't see anyone else), because the Fire Cavern test requires a sponsor. Or maybe other SeeD canidates passed by and found Squall. . . who knows? Maybe carrying a comatose rival back to campus IS Seifer's cup of tea after all. :p

In any case, about Quistis' comment on training - I figured any practice combat, regardless as to where it takes place, would be considered training.

[boris no no]

arn't ther two garden people standing by the entrance?
maybe they saw and brought squall back!

[FoulDrow]

...why do U all think this is so important????

[Rampala]

...why do U all think this is so important????

It's not, it's just fun to discuss. You should've been around back in the day when we'd argue over plot holes!

Shiiiiva! I missed you! ^_^ Yeah, it's all kind of unexplained, but I reeeeally like you're theory so perhaps we'll just ignore that. :p

And yes, there are two of the Garden workers standing outside the cavern, but I think even Seifer is smarter than to fight directly in front of them.

[FoulDrow]

...I've just watched the begining(again),and there R some strange things...the sun is not where it's sopose to be...the sun is very low on horizon...if we R 2 belive that those mountains in the back R peaks of fire cave,then in FF8 world sun sets/rizes on the south...???
...correct me if I'm wrong...

[rubah]

How exactly are you getting your directions?

There's more or less mountains everywhere, you're not entirely sure where in the mountains you are, and the sun isn't even up yet.

and plus, it's cloudy. How do you know that it's not just cloudy on one side, which makes it look lighter on the other? I've seen plenty of mornings like that. (and evenings too)

and yeah well, the sun *could* rise in the south. or the north or west or east. sorta depends on how they figure their directions:) for all we know, the sun rises in the gasrukl, and sets in the semwa.

[Rostum]

We never see Squall pass out though, so he could have dragged himself back to Garden.

[FoulDrow]

...U'r right,there R a lot of mountains around,but those mount.chains behind Squall seem to b the highest around,so...that's got to b the peak...as for the sun location...whell,just look at the shadows...if those high peaks are of the fire cave,then the sun is low on horizon at south...if they R not...they could b fighting at the other side of the garden...think about it...

[blue_midget192]

I thought it was somewhere outside garden :) as for the Squall getting back, i thouhgt that one of the medical staff went and got him, possible after seifer was boasting about it to people? (dunno, just seams like somthing he would do)

[Rostum]

...U'r right,there R a lot of mountains around,but those mount.chains behind Squall seem to b the highest around,so...that's got to b the peak...as for the sun location...whell,just look at the shadows...if those high peaks are of the fire cave,then the sun is low on horizon at south...if they R not...they could b fighting at the other side of the garden...think about it...

Oh please, please use proper english. You're grammar and spelling hurt my eyes oh so much. :(

[Shoden]

man this aint a chatroom "U no"

[FoulDrow]

...thanx a lot...I'm doing my best...I would really like to see U try writing and speaking my language...ok,I'll stop posting...vidimo se!

[XoXyunalescaXoX]

...thanx a lot...I'm doing my best...I would really like to see U try writing and speaking my language...ok,I'll stop posting...vidimo se!


exactly what language do u speak hun?

and i think shiva was right....waaaaay back at the beginning... its a plateau in the mountains, probably the ones near the fire cavern... and the sun would probably set in the south.... think about the way the moon is positioned and stuff in like the third disk and.... it would make sence, considering their sun/moon revolved like ours. if not, its impossible to tell....



:love:

[seiyuimore]

Ahem! Nobody remember that to take the Fire Cavern exam you should be with a "support" Which is what Quistis do with Squall.

So I believe, the one who at least help Squall to go to the infirmary quick is the "support" who he went there with when Seifer jumped to him and start the fight.

Of course Quistis won't say in the class like: Seifer, do NOT injure your partner when 'quarrelling'? That would sounds not proper, ya'know :)
Therefore she put 'Training'. Beside, as diciplinary commitee leader, it would ruin his name if he was found bullying other students, right? right?

[FoulDrow]

...serbian,why should U care...ochigledno ne govorim engleski bash najbolje a i ovi oksimoroni su me smorili...k'o da je vazno da li sam dobro spelovao,vazno je shta sam hteo da kazem...ma,daBogda vam neko svima pokr'o monitore!

[Kamrusepas]

About carrying Squall to the Infirmary:
I think Seifer would do that after all. He may seem mean and cruel and all, but he's not the type to let his teammates and fellow students die.
Besides, he doesn't hate Squall.
And, if he carried Squall to the Infirmary himself, he could brag on about how he won Squall and carried him aaaall the way back to the Garden :)

[seiyuimore]

About carrying Squall to the Infirmary:
I think Seifer would do that after all. He may seem mean and cruel and all, but he's not the type to let his teammates and fellow students die.
Besides, he doesn't hate Squall.
And, if he carried Squall to the Infirmary himself, he could brag on about how he won Squall and carried him aaaall the way back to the Garden :)


Question is: How he did that if he is also injured? He also got the scar, if you notice.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

But he didn't end up in the infirmary. I believe the assumption is that it was Seifer's Fire attack, not the actual scar cut, that injured Squall (although logically that seems a bit silly, but oh well - its a game, I guess).

[seiyuimore]

Or may be Squall passed out because of the scar injury and fire attack.

Seifer already left the infirmary with his 2 goons earlier. . . Because in class, Squall still have his bandage while Seifer is not bandaged at all. Means there is a lenght of time or Fuujin just cast cure to him to expedite the healing.

This also rise a curiousity. . .
In Dollet exam, Xu said to Seifer: "How many times now?"
Seifer replied: "Oh I just love these exams." (Mark: These exams)

What Seifer meant by this? Is it meant that he joined field exams more than once?

[Kamrusepas]

I think it's mentioned it's his second time, but I'm not sure.
Maybe it's because he's the captain on this exam, and maybe he was just a cadet on the first time?

[ShivaBlizzard8]

I believe the joke here is that Seifer has taken the SeeD exam a number of times now, and he keeps failing it - like he ultimately fails the Dollet one as well.

[blue_midget192]

This also rise a curiousity. . .
In Dollet exam, Xu said to Seifer: "How many times now?"
Seifer replied: "Oh I just love these exams." (Mark: These exams)

What Seifer meant by this? Is it meant that he joined field exams more than once?

yes, is far as i knew (from the game, the booklet, and his charecter in general) he keeps failing the SeeD exams, becuse he cann't follow orders etc. And he has taken the exams several times

[seiyuimore]

I believe the joke here is that Seifer has taken the SeeD exam a number of times now, and he keeps failing it - like he ultimately fails the Dollet one as well.


Then, in that case he has visited and finished Fire cavern much much earlier than Squall?

[ShivaBlizzard8]

That's a good point - he probably has. But I bet he still hangs around the cavern to mock new SeeD candidates. Just sounds like something he'd do. :p

[seiyuimore]

That's a good point - he probably has. But I bet he still hangs around the cavern to mock new SeeD candidates. Just sounds like something he'd do. :p


Sugoi!!

So Seifer outclever Squall while in the garden! Even though they arrived at the garden the same time, Seifer finished everything earlier than squall (Minus become SEED). No wonder he was appointed as the leader of disciplinary commitee.

[Kamrusepas]

Yay, he's so good :love:

[ShivaBlizzard8]

LOL - well, I don't think its all that surprising. Seifer is really good at what he does - he and Squall wouldn't be "rivals" if one of them really sucked. It's like being on a sports team - your rival isn't the team you always win against. It's usually the team that always beats you - and are jerks about it. Therefore, it makes sense that Seifer always beat Squall at everything, and rubbed his face in it (including their little gunblade battle at the begining). Finally, Squall beat Seifer to become a SeeD - something Seifer's bad attitude prevented him from doing.

[udsuna]

One should point out that no one ever established an accurate timeline. For all we know, the battle happened the day before- and Squall was out for the count all night. Kinda like some people with the alcohol. "Well, I was going to go to work this morning, but..." I wouldn't know, I never touch the stuff, but I'd assume that getting a chunk torn out of your face would compare well to a hangover. Heck, it coulda been days (but that's less likely). And it would seem quite Squall-ish to hop on the idea of having a 'warmup' of sorts the day before a big event. As a runner, I prefered to leave the day before open for rest and relaxation, but a lot of my teamates didn't.

[blue_midget192]

One should point out that no one ever established an accurate timeline. For all we know, the battle happened the day before- and Squall was out for the count all night.

Good Point :) i'd not thought of that. He could have been out all night, because if i remeber rightly when he wakes up its realy bright outside soo, that would suggest either early morning or a meteor shower :) so either they had the fight last night, or they had the fight at about 4:30 in the morning.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

On the contrary, I think its clear that it happens in one day:

1)The fight during a rainstorm - early morning.
2) Squall wakes up later in the afternoon, storm over, its sunny - afternoon sun in window.
3) Class, Quistis asks Squall why he hasn't been to cavern, he thinks *I was going to go this morning, but then Seifer. . . * They agree to go now.
4) Fire Cavern with Quistis - late afternoon. (It's getting dark when they get back - Quistis tells him to rest before exam)
5)SeeD exam leaving - sunset (its getting dark at Balamb)
6)Travel to Dollet - night. (The Moon is out during the FMV and its dark.)
7)SeeD exam - very early morning - the sun is rising but the moon's stil out.
8)Back to Balamb - looks like midday to me.
9)Graduation Ball - night.

But that's just my theory. ;)

[udsuna]

Yeah, but even with those observations, it's just as easy to say it was yesterday with the battle. Which was to point out that there is NO way to say 'when' the battle occures in relation to the other events other than "Squall wakes up later- and it's a very bright day". Although it WAS stormy- which implies time for the weather to clear up considerably. But considering they're right next to a highly improbable mountain formation... that doesn't say much. But since we can't establish "when", we have no means to establish "where".
And we also have no real idea what Squall was going to think next- all we have is "I was going to go this morning, but Seifer..." for all we know the next line was "went too far last night". Ok, maybe that's not EXACTLY the wording that would be used, but you get the idea. And Squall's the sort that wouldn't consider something like that a good excuse- I actually doubt Quistis would have accepted it, either. And besides, he cut it AWFULLY close to the mission to wait to complete his Fire-Cave training. That's just plain procrastination.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

LOL - I agree on the procrastination thing!

However, I think Squall's internal thought does give us a location - and a precise one at that - he was going to go to the Fire Cavern, and the confrontation prevented him from getting there. That narrows things down signifigantly, because it gives us a context for the fight, and the rest can be reasoned:
- Squall's still a student, he has classes to go to, and since he's not a SeeD yet, no access to cars or a salary (plus Squall really isn't the type to go on vacation anyway), so I think we can assume this conflict happened somewhere between Balamb Garden and the Fire Cavern, which is where Squall was headed.
- The battle takes place outdoors, evidenced by the sky and rain, which rules out internal locations inside Balamb, including the training center.
- The battle takes place in a mountainous area, and the only mountainous area on the island of Balamb is by the Fire Cavern, which is where Squall was headed in the first place.

Pretty clear to me.

[seiyuimore]

Shivablizzard is right.

But things that made me curious is, who is Squall's support that time? Why he or she didn't stop the fight?

I have a funny idea that Seifer is squall's support for that time .. . But since Seifer is not SeeD and still student, he couldn't be the support for Squall right?

And where is Fuujin and Raijin? Aren't they Seifer's sidekick who always follow Seifer all the time? Why in the FMV, they are not seen? :confused:

[udsuna]

Shivablizzard is right.

But things that made me curious is, who is Squall's support that time? Why he or she didn't stop the fight?

I have a funny idea that Seifer is squall's support for that time .. . But since Seifer is not SeeD and still student, he couldn't be the support for Squall right?

And where is Fuujin and Raijin? Aren't they Seifer's sidekick who always follow Seifer all the time? Why in the FMV, they are not seen? :confused:

Which supports my "wasn't yet time to go to the cavern" theory. Seifer wanted some 'alone time'- and Squall never backs down- so they got it. Long story short: first FMV

[Trumpet Thief]

I had always assumed that it happened on a plateau in the mountainous area around the Fire Cavern, because when Quistis asks Squall why he hadn't been to the Cavern yet, he thinks to himself "I was gonna go this morning, but then Seifer. . . " I got the impression that he was on his way to the Cavern, met Seifer coming out after having passed, and they got into an egotistical battle.

That, and the area 1) looks mountainous, and the only part of the Balamb continant that has mountains is near the Fire Cavern, and 2) because it is obviously outside, whereas the Training Center is contained inside so that the monsters don't escape.

Just my 2 cents. :)

chaos: I have to agree with you there. I always thought the fight took place outside of Balamb Garden.

[<LionHeart>]

Well, one thing's for sure, the battle was outside Balamb Garden unless the Garden has clocking fields like Esthar that render that foggy place in the mountains. Also, the place looks a lot like that time warp place at the end. Now that place never actually existed right ? So what if what we're seeing at the beggining is actually what Squall remembers of his battle with Seifer ? Look at the sun and everything, they seem to show just how confused Squall is, and when we think about it, in the end it's the same thing: he's alone, lost and confused, just like he was on that very battle with Seifer. I really think the first FMW shows the battle through Squall's eyes..

[blue_midget192]

Well, one thing's for sure, the battle was outside Balamb Garden unless the Garden has clocking fields like Esthar that render that foggy place in the mountains. Also, the place looks a lot like that time warp place at the end. Now that place never actually existed right ? So what if what we're seeing at the beggining is actually what Squall remembers of his battle with Seifer ? Look at the sun and everything, they seem to show just how confused Squall is, and when we think about it, in the end it's the same thing: he's alone, lost and confused, just like he was on that very battle with Seifer. I really think the first FMW shows the battle through Squall's eyes..

but...then why would Squall be in the infirmary? and .....seriously none of the evidence fits! :) sorry

[<LionHeart>]

Mate your missing the point, when we see the first video, what if the battle already took place ? I mean think about it, FF8 is a really deep game at times and what if the first video actually shows the battle as he remembers it. The battle could have been anywhere, that's not the point, but maybe that's how Squall saw it.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

Oh you mean its like a flashback of what happened, then he wakes up?

Maybe, I guess. . . but either way the actual fight happened right before Squall ended up in the infirmary - Dr. K says that he had a head injury that would leave a scar when he wakes up, and Quistis admonishes Seifer to be more careful when fighting fellow students. You could argue the FMV itself is Squall's recollection of the fight, but that doesn't change the timeline of when the real fight took place.

[blue_midget192]

hhhmmm, makes a bit more sense now. coulda been Squall remebering the fight, but still-as ShivaBlizzard8 said the timeline of the fight is still the same. :)
*sanity is restored*

[rubah]

I think that the battle is the only 'real' part of the entire opening video. The rest is just clever foreshadowing (or forefriggin'tellingus) on square's part.

Like "Oh, here's this dude and this other dude. They're going to have a lot that'll happen to them. We were going to work in a nice rivalry over that girl with the feather we showed you earlier, but we didn't have time and forgot about it. But we were going to! that's all that matters, right chaps? Anyways, this guy's about to be knocked out any moment now, we'll let you run the show from here on out. Ta!"

[cL0uD3]

the first FMV is only the opening of the game there is no specefic event and time. it's only want to make Squall start at the infirmary and meets quistis. also has a little connection with squall and his condition in the first sence.

[<LionHeart>]

Cloud, do you think one of the guys at Square said: "oh, hey guys, today let's all do an opening movie for FF8. let's just put swords here and there..." :P Look, everything in FF is connected, whether it's a motion, a dialog or an entire flashback from one the characters, it's all connected. Besides, if the producers wanted it, they could have introduced Quistis in a different way, they didn't have to cut Squall's forehead open just so they can say: "Hey, this is Quistis"

[Squall04]

Alright, this is what I've always thought:

First of all, he wouldn't have been going to the Fire Cavern when he got into his brawl with Seifer because like so many people have said before, you need "support" for that place, and from the FMV, I think it's accepted that he was alone.

Second, I believe that he and Seifer were truly practicing and Seifer just took it too far. I think that Squall wanted a warm up with someone who would give him a good fight before he went to the Fire Cavern. I don't think they were such bad enemies that they didn't practice together.

Obviously this all took place outside nearby mountains somewhere close by Balamb Garden.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

Just because you need support doesn't mean they have to walk there with you. I think its plausible that Squall was planning to meet his support person at the Cavern, and never quite got there. The support probably when searching for him when he didn't show up and took him to the infirary. Just a thought.

[Squall04]

Ok, ok, there is no way to really know what happenned, I just like to think my way happenned because then I'd be right.

Also, everyone's assuming that Squall passes out and is taken to the infirmary by someone else. Squall's a tough guy, isn't it possible that he took himself there?

[rubah]

Well, there's also that he 'forgot' to go that morning, since he was 'training' with seifer. Or was it that he was intending to go, but seifer sidetracked him? But his support finding him doesn't sound likely, because it wouldn't be Quistis because she doesn't refer to waiting for him or finding him, does she? And why change supports?

Squall may be tough, but geeze, if you had your forehead sliced open, would you be in the best state of mind?

[Squall04]

It's only a flesh wound.

[rubah]

Ha. That's what the black knight from monty python said.

And look where he ended up!

[ShivaBlizzard8]

LOL.

[udsuna]

Resurecting this to apologize: I was wrong about it. It DEFINATELY happened the very morning of all the other events. Because Zell says so when you first meet him. Goes something like "So, you hate Seifer, right?" "Heard he whipped you pretty bad this morning." Which means that it happened in the morning, and my theory was wrong. *hangs head in shame*. But, at least I can admit when I'm wrong... that counts for something, right?

[Kamrusepas]

That's very brave of you *pat pat*

[ShivaBlizzard8]

Oh yeah - I'd forgotten Zell said that! Thanks for mentioning it. :)