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Shoden
02-12-2005, 11:44 PM
Ever heard of a thing called Aspergus Syndrome?
strange thing releated to Autism yet alot more Minor than it

Craig
02-12-2005, 11:47 PM
Can't say I have.

Kawaii Ryûkishi
02-12-2005, 11:50 PM
Asperger, not Aspergus.

Jojee
02-12-2005, 11:52 PM
Asparagus xD

Er.

But yes, I have :) Why do you ask?

Dr.K
02-12-2005, 11:53 PM
Yes! One of my sisters studied it alot for her psychology degree, and she's told me a fair bit about it.
Is there anything in particular you wanted to comment about it?

TheAbominatrix
02-12-2005, 11:54 PM
I love asparagus. Boil it was some butter and oh yeah is it good. Especially with mashed potatoes.

Psychotic
02-13-2005, 01:08 AM
My brother has Asperger's Syndrome. Although I think he has a few other things wrong with him mentally as well, this is the only thing diagnosed. Oh and depression, he got diagnosed as having that as well.

Destai
02-13-2005, 01:10 AM
Sorry about that, It must be hard.

What is Asperegus syndrome?

Psychotic
02-13-2005, 01:18 AM
What is Asperegus syndrome?To quote Web MD, What is Asperger’s syndrome?

Asperger’s syndrome is a developmental disorder in which people have difficulties understanding how to interact socially.

People with Asperger's syndrome have some traits of autism, especially weak social skills and a preference for sameness and routine.

As you can imagine, having problems interacting socially can lead to major problems whilst being a teenager, and my brother ended up being bullied (And those that did bully him got away with it, as they were on the Rugby team and the head of year was yep, you guessed it, the team's coach. They didn't even get punished for breaking my brother's arm.) Eventually my parents took him out of normal school and he then attended a special school.

But now he goes to University, and while there can be problems at times, he's OK.

DJZen
02-13-2005, 02:33 AM
I had a friend with Asperger's Syndrome. He didn't have it too bad, but it sort of manifested itself as "nobody likes me so if I do provocative things, people will think it's cool and respect me for it." He currently claims he's a woman. Even though he doesn't shave. Or wear women's clothing. Yup.

The Captain
02-13-2005, 04:25 AM
All the people that I've come into contact with that have Asperger's, also have something known as Hyperlexia, a condition where the brain is able to process words on the page very quickly from a young age, but the development of social skills are slower than usual. A person can read at a very high level and understand it, but lacks the skills to make friends or relate to something/someone not in a book on written down. Judging from what Asperger's is described as, I suppose it makes sense that the two seem to go hand in hand in some cases.

Take care all.

Shlup
02-13-2005, 05:28 AM
I prefer to refer to it as "Assburger Syndrome".

I've had to deal with children at work that supposedly are afflicted with this terrible excuse as to why they wont behave. So they're difficult children, do we have to give them a freaking diagnosis? Lets see what pills we can give them for this one!

Oh, I'm sorry my son bit you, but there's nothing I can do about it because he's an Assburger!

I prefer to just deal with a child the way that suits their personality without hanging stigmas over their heads.

-N-
02-13-2005, 05:41 AM
A person I know here has Asperger's, but he doesn't seem to be a crazy-go-nuts guy. Seeing as how his life story was reprinted in an L.A. Times article that everyone here has read, he didn't seem to have extreme difficulties growing up either. I suppose it has degrees.

Mr. Graves
02-13-2005, 02:46 PM
I have a mild case of it. (It supposedly manifests itself in degrees of mild-medium-high, at least according to the person who diagnosed me with it.) It's no picnic, but it's not a total drag either. It's just social ineptness, and eccentric thoughts that differ from the norm. It's found to be caused by a deficiency of Magnesium and Vitamin B6, and so I take vitamin supplements to ease it. It works pretty well. Nothing wrong with it unless one carries him/herself as some kind of nutjob.

Bill Gates as Asperger's Syndrome, or at least so I hear.

Destai
02-13-2005, 02:50 PM
um ok, I want to be social and all that but I cant socialise with most people. Finding it hard to socialise doesnt mean I have it, does it?

Mr. Graves
02-13-2005, 03:05 PM
Unless you have thoughts of organizing a nazi cult, than no.

Shoden
02-13-2005, 05:06 PM
i have a minor form of it but there is a scale im fortunate to have a lower level of it

i get pissed off easilly and needed alot of help when i was younger with socialism but i can pick up words and remember things greatly (except homework lol) im not actually thick as http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif as autistic stereotypes say. i think its wrong the way these autistic kids are treated but my condition links to another one i have called Dyspraxia just a learning difficulty and clumsy syndrome featuring slow reaction too things and slight lack of common sense but as i got older it stopped all except my clumsiness and bad handwriting.

didnt know some of you knew so much about it i thought some of you would laugh and shout things like autistic freaks but you didn't i must thank you for that you have alot of common sense compared to some http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifs i know in my street and school. they hit me with things like metal poles bamboo sticks wooden planks just to see me get mad and react but it doesnt work like that. ive been bullied all my school life and ive learned to ignore it anyone else the same here?

Mirage
02-13-2005, 05:52 PM
Yes, I know one who's got it.

Shoden
02-13-2005, 06:31 PM
i know several others who have it and 1 who has the exact same as me Both of em

Rye
02-13-2005, 06:43 PM
I thought you said Asparugus too. xD Yes, I heard about it.

Shoden
02-13-2005, 06:55 PM
what do you mean?

LillyKimilly
02-15-2005, 03:31 PM
Awww! Honey tell those *snip* to go away and get a life (do use stronger language). My brother has that but it seems to make him more popular and he has dislexia. I have a mild form of disbraxia (sp?) and have hand and eye co-ordination problems and the like. So the doctors orders was to do things like play video games with key pads and so on :)
Th doctor told me to play video games!! How cool is that!!!
Anyway its good that ur ignoring them, my bro sometimes totally lets rip on ppl and it's not good, even tho the teachers kno he has the syndrome they still punish him and so do my parents. I feel sorry for him but he's a right *snip* even if he didnt have the sydrome anyway ;)
xxxxxxxxx

Watch your language and do not go around the swear filiter. ~ Leeza

Misfit
02-15-2005, 03:37 PM
Oh, I'm sorry my son bit you, but there's nothing I can do about it because he's an Assburger!
xD

mythus
02-15-2005, 05:34 PM
I have heard of it, however am not to familiar with it.

My son had Pervasive Developemental Disorder... which is aanother word for high functioning Autuism, or Autuism on the high end of the spectrum. And even that makes no real sense to me. But from what I have gathered Autuism has a whole spectrum of how it affects certain people. I think the same is of the one you are talking about.

kalabora
02-16-2005, 01:29 AM
Almost all of my close friends have some form of mental problem. I myself haven't been diagnosed *because my parents think all of this stuff is fake* I didn't do anything at school except talk to my friends about anime, games, and well... that's pretty much it. I do think I have some sort of paranoia problem (oh and I am bipolar.) because I get so paranoid about non-physical being (if anyone knows what I am talking about) that sometimes I just freak out and flip eveyone and everything off around me. And everyone I come in contact with I think they can hear my thoughts and I try to change my thoughts constantly to throw people off. Maybe I'm just crazy... but, I don't care got nothin' left to lose so you better be fu&&in aware!

P.S. Great thread Shoden, I'll have to pry myself away from the FFVII forum more often and come here.

TheAbominatrix
02-16-2005, 04:42 AM
I think everyone is way to eager to convince themselves they have a medical problem. If they cant concentrate in school, it's not because they have other things they'd rather be doing, it's because they have a disorder. If kids misbehave, it isnt because the parents dont discipline them, it's because they have a disorder. Whatever happened to kids having problems because they're kids and <i>they have problems</i>? Everyone is too quick to shift the blame from themselves to a disorder, no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. "Sorry I stole that stereo, I have a disorder. Not my fault." I'm not saying mental disorders don't exist, but the number of cop outs is ridiculous. Doctors are so eager to diagnose and stick kids on pills, and parents are just as eager. If your kids all mellowed out on the legal dope, it sure saves you a lot of headaches, doesnt it?

nik0tine
02-16-2005, 04:56 AM
Ive never heard of it, but it sure sounds like I might have it.

Big D
02-16-2005, 05:43 AM
I know someone who has it. He's extremely intelligent and the most gifted computer programmer I've ever known. I'm not saying mental disorders don't exist, but the number of cop outs is ridiculous. Doctors are so eager to diagnose and stick kids on pills, and parents are just as eager.Asperger's Syndrome can't be treated with drugs. It affects adults - such as the man I know - as well as kids.

For instance, some people with Asperger's are brilliant mathematicians, but cannot remember the correct order of the days in the week or the months in the year. It's not because they're stupid or because their parents didn't discipline them when they were children; it actually is a "disorder". People with Asperger's are often superbly gifted at organising non-linear information - such as computer code - but not so good with linear information, like sequences.

I'm kind of unpleasantly surprised by the things you and Shlup have said in this thread...

TheAbominatrix
02-16-2005, 05:51 AM
I'm not saying that the disorder doesnt exist, but I think both Shlup and I are tired of everyone who cant concentrate well or acts like a kid being diagnosed with some disorder. Having worked at a doctor's office, I got very sick of people coming in and essentially saying "My four year old cant stop running around and acting like a four year old, tell me what disorder he has."

I wasnt even refering specifically to Asperger's, more to what Kalabora said. If you were in Shlup's position, you may think differently, from the amount of sheer bull she has to deal with. From people with undisciplined children blaming on ADHD or what have you, instead of spending time with the child or adapting to the child's needs, they give them a diagnosis and load them up with pills, or in the case of Mandee's dealings with Asperger children, just use the disorder as an excuse to cover up any wrongdoing commited by the child. It's disgusting.

And again, having worked in a doctor's office, and having a mother who still does, I've dealt with people who will go from doctor to doctor until one of them lays some stigma on their child, so neither parent nor child will have to take responsibility for the child's behavior.

Behold the Void
02-16-2005, 05:59 AM
I do question the existence of a mild case of this disorder. Social ineptness in and of itself isn't necessarily caused by a disorder. Some people are simply highly adaptable and can relate to others well, while others cannot. Unless it is an extremely severe impairment of social skills, I would be reluctant to classify it as a disorder, simply because not everybody can be expected to be able to relate with everybody else on the same level. If you're mildly socially maladjusted, I would be far more likely to attribute that to your basic personality than the presence of a disorder.

And there is also the point that in our society we are far too likely to want to blame a disorder instead of taking into account other factors within a child's development, especially since that often requires us to admit that somewhere down the line, we screwed up. So the belief that someone doesn't necessarily have a disorder, and that disorder is simply used as an excuse is not without a certain validity, but shouldn't be a blanket belief any more than the belief that behavior cannot be controlled because of some disorder should be a blanket belief.

Shlup
02-16-2005, 06:07 AM
I don't see how you, D, could possibly go through this thread, reading all these posts with people saying "Sounds like something I have! Diagnose me!!" and think Ashley and I are wrong in our views.

I have dealt too many times with children who are acting differently every week because of all the drugs their parents are trying on them. I have dealt too many times with children whose behavior is acceptable because they have some disorder.

One of my favorite children, a psychopathic four-year-old, used to drive me up a wall. He was clearly very, very smart (he had just turned four and could read as well as a six-year-old), but he had terrible behavior problems.

I learned to deal with him, and he began to behave very well for me. We got along really well.

Then the doctor said he had "Asperger's Syndrome" and put him on medication, and that little boy who I had learn to deal with and appreciate completely changed. He was incredibly moody and would just go wild for no reasons. Sometimes I would have to pin him down to keep him from freaking out.

That really pissed me off.

My cousin is the same way. He has "Asperger's Syndrome" but magically behaves fine for me. I mean, yeah, he behaves innapropriately and I don't doubt that he actually has the syndrome, but that doesn't mean I should lower my expectations of him. A reason for the behavior does not excuse the behavior, and I am really tired of people acting like it does.

Neither Ashley or myself is saying that disorders and syndromes and diseases don't exist. We are simply saying that they are not excuses, and I, at least, am very tired of this victim bandwagon that people are so readily jumping on.

If I see one my post where someone says "That sounds like something I might have!" I am going to puke.

Miriel
02-16-2005, 06:42 AM
When Jim Windolf, an editor of the New York Observer, collated estimates for maladies ranging from borderline personality disorder (10 million) and sex addiction (11 million) to less well-known conditions such as restless leg syndrome (12 million) he came up with the figure of 152 million. "But give experts a little time, with another qualified disorder or two, everybody in the country will officially be nuts."

152 million Americans who claimed to have some sort of psychiatric disorder. That was over half the population of the entire country at the time. =/

I gotta agree with what ShlupQuack already posted, I think people are way too eager to diagnose themselves and jump on the "victim bandwagon."

It's an injustice to the people who actually have these disorders when a bunch of perfectly healthy people run around crying wolf.

Dr Unne
02-16-2005, 07:45 AM
I prefer to refer to it as "Assburger Syndrome".

That's honestly pretty amazing. I knew some kids in school who'd poke fun at the mentally retarded kids during lunchtime, and try to get them to do things like eat bugs and dirt. I was forcefully reminded of that just now, for some reason.

If I see one my post where someone says "That sounds like something I might have!" I am going to puke.

I agree with some other people here. You've taken your opinion far too much to the opposite extreme, to the point where you honestly sound like a jerk. I don't think you are necessarily a jerk, but you sound very much like one whenever you discuss this subject.

I think that it's silly for everyone who has any problems to claim to have a mental disease. I think that doping up your kids because they're not angels is ridiculous. I think it's wrong to make blanket statements like "Everyone here who claims to have a mental disease is wrong about it, and you all make me puke", because you're probably making at least a few genuinely ill people feel like dirt for no good reason, if not here and now, then probably some of the many other times you've voiced this opinion in the same rude and uncaring manner in the past.

Neither Ashley or myself is saying that disorders and syndromes and diseases don't exist. We are simply saying that they are not excuses, and I, at least, am very tired of this victim bandwagon that people are so readily jumping on.

Are you saying it's an excuse for no one? I think you may as well go into a hospital full of people with spinal injuries and tell them that they should stop using it as an excuse not to walk. If you think that mental disease is not an excuse for anyone, then I say to you, could you saw off your own arm if everyone around you told you all the time it would make you feel happy? Only thing stopping you is your mind. You could do it, but I would be completely wrong to expect it to be easy for you.

I don't think that depression or shyness or lack of social skill or anxiety or anything is always automatically a mental disease. I don't think that even for people who HAVE a genuine mental problem, that it's an excuse not to be happy and successful and well-behaved. I think people need to fight to have a good life and to be a good person, no matter what circumstances they are dealt in life, no matter what they have to do to achieve it, because in the end no one has any choice but to do so. And I don't respect people who don't fight for it, even if the fight is hard. But I do respect those who do fight, even if they struggle, even if they sometimes fail, so long as they keep fighting.

I also know that it's FREAKING HARD to overcome such things sometimes, and I have sympathy for people who have to deal with it, and admiration for people who overcome it. That goes for mental problems, or any other kind of problem that people are forced to deal with at no fault of their own. Being born blind isn't an excuse to stay home and be miserable or to punch people in the face when you're riding the bus downtown, but it does warrant having a bit of patience and understanding with them when they take a longer time to cross the street than everyone else takes.

I don't feel the need to marginalize what other people go through, and I don't see the need to insult them. I think everyone has problems, and that everyone who manages to be a good person, "mentally ill" or not, deserves respect, because it ALWAYS takes effort, for everyone, no matter what. I also think that there are some people in the world who are extremely fortunate in life compared to others in some ways, and I think that a general attitude of disdain and lack of empathy for others is just as likely to make me puke as someone who claims victimhood for no reason other than laziness.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I completely disagree with how you've said it.

Shlup
02-16-2005, 08:25 AM
I prefer to refer to it as "Assburger Syndrome".

That's honestly pretty amazing. I knew some kids in school who'd poke fun at the mentally retarded kids during lunchtime, and try to get them to do things like eat bugs and dirt. I was forcefully reminded of that just now, for some reason.
Yeah, its fun. I used to tell the kids at work "Hey, assburger! Get a job!" and it made me feel big and powerful.

Actually I say that because when I first heard of the syndrome I thought that's what the person who told me about it had said, and it stuck. I now know that's not how its said or spelled, and if you think me saying that is as bad as making retarded kids eat dirt then I really have nothing more to say about it.


If I see one my post where someone says "That sounds like something I might have!" I am going to puke.

I agree with some other people here. You've taken your opinion far too much to the opposite extreme, to the point where you honestly sound like a jerk. I don't think you are necessarily a jerk, but you sound very much like one whenever you discuss this subject.

I think that it's silly for everyone who has any problems to claim to have a mental disease. I think that doping up your kids because they're not angels is ridiculous. I think it's wrong to make blanket statements like "Everyone here who claims to have a mental disease is wrong about it, and you all make me puke", because you're probably making at least a few genuinely ill people feel like dirt for no good reason, if not here and now, then probably some of the many other times you've voiced this opinion in the same rude and uncaring manner in the past.

I didn't say everyone was wrong about it, I said I'm tired of hearing it. If I sound like a jerk, well, it happens. Don't even try to tell me you never sound like a jerk when you're annoyed.

If anyone who has discovered the reason they're akward thanks to this thread and gets diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, feel free to email me about it and I'll write you a letter of apology. Or something.


[qq]Neither Ashley or myself is saying that disorders and syndromes and diseases don't exist. We are simply saying that they are not excuses, and I, at least, am very tired of this victim bandwagon that people are so readily jumping on.

Are you saying it's an excuse for no one? I think you may as well go into a hospital full of people with spinal injuries and tell them that they should stop using it as an excuse not to walk. If you think that mental disease is not an excuse for anyone, then I say to you, could you saw off your own arm if everyone around you told you all the time it would make you feel happy? Only thing stopping you is your mind. You could do it, but I would be completely wrong to expect it to be easy for you.
Yes, because refusing to believe that any "mental disorder" will hold me back in my life is the exact same thing as finding happiness in self-amputation. I don't recall saying anything about life being easy. Its people who are trying to make it easy through over-medicating their children or selves that is the problem.


also know that it's FREAKING HARD to overcome such things sometimes, and I have sympathy for people who have to deal with it, and admiration for people who overcome it. That goes for mental problems, or any other kind of problem that people are forced to deal with at no fault of their own. Being born blind isn't an excuse to stay home and be miserable or to punch people in the face when you're riding the bus downtown, but it does warrant having a bit of patience and understanding with them when they take a longer time to cross the street than everyone else takes.
I really don't think that has anything to do with my point. My point was not "People with mental disorders are completely normal!" My point was that people are quick to play the victim, and quick to look for the easy way out, which is generally taking a bunch of pills. Yes, its harder to deal with a disorder than to deal with nothing. As I said about one of the boy's I've dealt with who was diagnosed with Asperger's, he used to drive me up the wall before I learned how to deal with him. Even then, he would act up, but I was understanding and we got along very well. It wasn't until his parents decided it would be easier to drug him that there was a real problem.


I don't feel the need to marginalize what other people go through, and I don't see the need to insult them. I think everyone has problems, and that everyone who manages to be a good person, "mentally ill" or not, deserves respect, because it ALWAYS takes effort, for everyone, no matter what. I also think that there are some people in the world who are extremely fortunate in life compared to others in some ways, and I think that a general attitude of disdain and lack of empathy for others is just as likely to make me puke as someone who claims victimhood for no reason other than laziness.
I don't mean to marginalize the trials and tribulations of others. We all have problems in our lives and, so it would seem, we could all benefit from getting a nice strong perscription. We can't please everyone all the time, so I don't mean to disrespect anyone in particular by what I've said, but I have a rather strong opinion on the matter and I am in a bad place about it so I am likely to sound like a jerk. And don't you tell me that I should keep my mouth shut if I can't be nice 'cause I hate it when you do that!

And I don't think its fair to classify me as some wonderfully fortunate person who is looking down on people I know nothing about as though I know nothing about mental disorders, as if I've never dealt with them, as if I'm so mentally stable all the time and couldn't possibly know what its like to just want some pills to make it all go away.

My family history has a lot of "mental illness" and my dad has been on perminant disability for mental illness for years (that's a whooole different story). I've had letters written home recommending that I see a professional on more than one occasion (two occasions, actually). I don't want to go. I don't want a label, and I don't want pills. I'm doing fine as I am. Judge me all you want, and I apologise for being a jerk, but this kind of stuff hits a little close to home and, no, I will not just refrain from stating my opinion for the sake of not hurting anyone's feelings.

And if I am hurting anyone in particular's feelings, you are welcome to say so.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I completely disagree with how you've said it.What else is new. :tongue:

The Captain
02-16-2005, 08:55 AM
This has obviously touched a nerve with many people.

I suppose, we can all offer unique perspectives because we've had to grapple with the circumstances in different lights. For someone who studies or has a deep interest in helping those with mental disorders or with how the mind works, which is what I think you study Shlup, I may be wrong, I can see how your views certainly come into play, as well as Ashley's. Our culture has become increasing obsessed with quick-fixes, with as little effort as possible so long as the end result is something better, even if it's not the long-term answer.

Yet, I can also see where Dr. Unne and Dave are coming from as well. The real problem is, the middle ground is the toughest place to take because some will always cry for more drugs, more medicine, whilst others will say more individual responsibility and pressure needs to be enforced and drugs should be used to enhance one's recovery not be the only means toward that recovery.

Granted, I'd wager most people do not suffer from a mental disease, and if they truly do the research, they'll see that they may be going through some form of momentary trouble, but are not actually afflicted, but how do you get people to actually do the research?

The more open, frank discussions, and exchange of ideas and experiences, the better in my book. So long as we can also attempt to see other sides, I think we all benefit. I'm as guilty as anyone in that regard, and it's something I have to work on myself. Hopefully, the more open debate I hear, the more it'll help me grow as a person.

Take care all.

Roogle
02-16-2005, 09:25 AM
I'd just like to say that I agree completely with ShlupQuack and TheAbominatrix. Lately, it's been a known issue in the medical community, so they aren't completely off base or trying to strike a nerve.

The whole situation with people wanting to be quick to play the victim reminds me of an episode of The Cosby Show where it was finally revealed that Theo Huxtable had dyslexia, and that's why he was never good at school. It was an instant fix to an ongoing problem with him, and everything just seemed to become great after he was diagnosed. The Cosby Show and a lot of the characters are based off of Bill Cosby's real family; that being said, this actually happened in some form. Doesn't everyone want something like that, in a way? It's easy to want to place the blame for something that's not going so well on a medical disorder, and people do it all the time, whether intentionally or through the support of overdiagnosing doctors.

I sleep at weird times. Do I have a sleeping disorder? Probably not. If I went to a doctor, described my problem, and they said I probably had a sleeping order and diagnosed me with one, I would just sleep anytime I wanted and say, "Oh, whoops, sleeping disorder." That's the kind of thing they're talking about, not people that actually suffer from it and TRULY have it.

It's hard to tell exactly who's got a real disorder and who doesn't, that's all.

Big D
02-16-2005, 10:47 AM
I *know* we live in an increasingly blameless society where people in general, and parents in particular, don't want to take any responsibility for anything. Media, mental health and medication are such handy scapegoats.


I don't see how you, D, could possibly go through this thread, reading all these posts with people saying "Sounds like something I have! Diagnose me!!" and think Ashley and I are wrong in our views.Blaming social awkwardness on Asperger's is a bit of a blind leap, yes. But suppose a member said, "hey, I can never remember if October is before February or what day comes after Tuesday. I might have that syndrome." I doubt you'd be so quick to boil.
My cousin is the same way. He has "Asperger's Syndrome" but magically behaves fine for me. I mean, yeah, he behaves innapropriately and I don't doubt that he actually has the syndrome, but that doesn't mean I should lower my expectations of him. A reason for the behavior does not excuse the behavior, and I am really tired of people acting like it does.Whoever said it excused the behaviour? It explains it, sure, and explains why it might be more difficult to manage, but it doesn't make it OK or anything. People with Asperger's Syndrome have, statistically, much lower rates of success with romantic relationships. If a guy with A.S. doesn't find a girlfriend, this can rightly be blamed in part on his inherently greater social difficulties. It's not necessarily his fault that he has those difficulties. Problems with overcoming those difficulties may arise from the same source. Someone who could easily become more sociable but simply can't be bothered has no real excuse, whether or not they're mildly autistic. My point is that a genetic disorder may be a contributing factor in why a person is the way they are.

Asperger's Syndrome is a genuine disorder that affects some people; behavioural problems are a possible effect of the disorder. If that behaviour annoys you, that's understandable. But blaming the person in question would be like blaming them for being unable to remember sequences.

Imagine if a math teacher said, "I have this 17-year-old in my class who can't learn long division. He just refuses to take anything in, and that really irritates me. His parents won't take any responsibility for his slack attitude to learning, and this doctor of theirs just says that the kid has "a mental age of five", and acts like this label makes it OK for the kid to behave the way he does."

That was a deliberately extreme example, and I'm definitely not suggesting that what has been said is anything like that at all. However, I don't feel it is fair to disregard genuine psychological/genetic factors responsible for certain behaviour just because that behaviour makes life more difficult for us.I sleep at weird times. Do I have a sleeping disorder? Probably not. If I went to a doctor, described my problem, and they said I probably had a sleeping order and diagnosed me with one, I would just sleep anytime I wanted and say, "Oh, whoops, sleeping disorder."If you were diagnosed with a sleeping disorder, then you'd have at least some kind of onus to do something about it, if anything was indeed possible. You can't drive around in a car with a flat tyre, then blame the tyre when you crash. That's the difference between "explanation" and "excuse".

Shlup
02-16-2005, 10:41 PM
Blaming social awkwardness on Asperger's is a bit of a blind leap, yes. But suppose a member said, "hey, I can never remember if October is before February or what day comes after Tuesday. I might have that syndrome." I doubt you'd be so quick to boil.
You're right, I wouldn't be as annoyed. I'm not unreasonable. My rage is very situational.

And I consider myself to be quite understanding in most circumstances. Its when we fall into the realm of "victim" that I get annoyed. Did I ever say "I've dealt with kids who supposedly have Aspurger's Syndrome but its really just that they're parents suck and its all bull!" No, I said that the kids still act up but I can deal with them fine without medicating them, which, from my experiences, completely changes who they are which really, really upsets me.

A very large percentage of my friends were on some kind of medication, most for "depression." That, in most cases at least, is total bull. They're teenagers! Depression and moodswings comes in right along with the B.O. and extra hair. It was in high school that I realized everyone can get medicated for something. All you have to do is yell out "Poor me!" and you got youself a bottle.

And, yes, this is my area of study, though I wont have any degrees for another year. Thank you for remembering, Cappy. :-*

nik0tine
02-16-2005, 10:50 PM
All you have to do is yell out "Poor me!" and you got youself a bottle.

I agree with this statement. When I said that this sounds like something that I might have, I mean that it certainly sounds like me sometimes. I realize, however, that I cannot blame my problems on a disorder. If I have a problem it's my fault, and my responsibility to fix it. I would never, ever go on medication for something like this. That's just absurd.

Shlup
02-16-2005, 10:54 PM
I agree with this statement. When I said that this sounds like something that I might have, I mean that it certainly sounds like me sometimes. I realize, however, that I cannot blame my problems on a disorder. If I have a problem it's my fault, and my responsibility to fix it. I would never, ever go on medication for something like this. That's just absurd.
I'm glad you said that 'cause you were on my list of people that deserved a little flick on the ear.

Yeah, to be honest, Aspurger's sounds like something I could have too. I could even go as far as to say I struggle with the days of the week and the months, but I will continue to contribute that to me being just plain not good with remembering stuff like that, and my poor social skills have to do with... poor social skills.

A lot of people at this board probably have symptoms of this syndrome. Lets face it, we're just nerds.

Roogle
02-16-2005, 10:54 PM
If you were diagnosed with a sleeping disorder, then you'd have at least some kind of onus to do something about it, if anything was indeed possible. You can't drive around in a car with a flat tyre, then blame the tyre when you crash. That's the difference between "explanation" and "excuse".

Yeah, I'm saying that it would be nice to turn an "excuse" into an "explanation".

Here's a very simple way to put it. I'm tired of seeing, "Suzie's been so sad lately; let's put her on Zoloft." Maybe Suzie's really, really sad and she has a history of depression in her family, or maybe Suzie's just doing it for attention or is just in a slump lately. What ShlupQuack, TheAbominatrix, and I are saying is that doctors are quick to put Suzie on Zoloft right away, even though she's just sad that her boyfriend broke up with her. The same is true for a lot of social disorders. It's really not a new thing; people are writing books about it as we speak!

And that, as they say, is that.

TheAbominatrix
02-16-2005, 11:40 PM
Well said, Mandee and Elgoor. <3

They spoke well for me, and this is what I was talking about. The quick fix situations in our world. Everyone is so eager to get on pills. My mom has been trying to get me on anti-depressants for ages. Which could be a good idea, considering the long history of mental illness of her side of the family. But I dont want pills. I dont want to blame every mood swing I have on some stigma that's been asigned to me, and it really gets to me, as it does to Mandee, when people are so quick to assign themselves problems, and use that as a sort of safety blanket. Not all disorders are stigmas, especially not to teenagers. It's almost chique.

It reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons. All the boys are on the jungle gym and they're talking about what they're 'on'. "I'll trade you for some Claritin!" "Claritin D?" "No." "I'll pass."

And yes I realize Claritin is for allergies xP

Destai
02-17-2005, 02:10 AM
So you're against people hiding from there problems? Then whats with this "assburger" mocking? Thats taking it out on the people who actually have problems.

TheAbominatrix
02-17-2005, 02:14 AM
If you took the time to read what both Shlup and I said, you wouldnt have to ask that. Read what she said about "Assburger". She explains to clearly. We both, and Roogle as well, explained our position multiple times.

Shlup
02-17-2005, 03:43 AM
So you're against people hiding from there problems? Then whats with this "assburger" mocking? Thats taking it out on the people who actually have problems.
Its not like I go around telling people that's what their syndrome is called or calling people names.

Don't act like you've never mocked anything before.

Big D
02-17-2005, 04:24 AM
And I consider myself to be quite understanding in most circumstances. Its when we fall into the realm of "victim" that I get annoyed. Did I ever say "I've dealt with kids who supposedly have Aspurger's Syndrome but its really just that they're parents suck and its all bull!" No, I said that the kids still act up but I can deal with them fine without medicating them, which, from my experiences, completely changes who they are which really, really upsets me.I understand; sorry if my post seemed unnecessarily heated. I've got the greatest of respect for people in therapeutic/caregiving jobs; I know you're not callous and heartless. Thus why I disagree with Dr Unne's post. It was just kind of a shock to see you say something that was *apparently* blaming people with genetic disorders for being the way they are.


A very large percentage of my friends were on some kind of medication, most for "depression." That, in most cases at least, is total bull. They're teenagers! Depression and moodswings comes in right along with the B.O. and extra hair. It was in high school that I realized everyone can get medicated for something. All you have to do is yell out "Poor me!" and you got youself a bottle.Sounds like medical incompetence and societal apathy are to blame...
However, clinical depression - the really serious stuff - shouldn't be ignored, even in moody teenagers. Being upset and pouty is normal; self-harm or suicidally low resolve and esteem is not normal by anyone's definition of the word. One is 'unhappy', the other is 'depressed'. One is experiencing an emotion; the other a mental illness. Behavioural disorders, I guess, are pretty much the same - a kid might be precocious or stroppy, but that's a far cry from a genuine disorder.
That's the trouble with psychology - it's often a matter of degree or interpretation, without a clear boundary between 'unusual but healthy' and 'actually unhealthy'.

Shlup
02-17-2005, 05:34 AM
self-harm or suicidally low resolve and esteem is not normal by anyone's definition of the word.
This is where you and I clearly disagree then, 'cause I think those things, in fairly small doses, are pretty normal for teenagers.

Or maybe I was just a part of the wrong crowd. *shrug*

Big D
02-17-2005, 09:07 AM
'Small doses', I'd agree... but when something becomes genuinely debilitating or otherwise harmful, I'd say it crosses the line. But that's just my opinion.

Shoden
02-18-2005, 12:28 PM
yeah comapred to other versions mine is minor but i have difficulties writing neatly and keeping cool

it's easier to control when your older but when your a kid you're hyper all the time

Citizen Bleys
02-18-2005, 12:40 PM
Unless you have thoughts of organizing a nazi cult, than no.

Oh...http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif!

But wait, I'm stupid and highly sociable, so doesn't that make me the opposite thing? When are they going to come up with a name for that so that I can cry for attention?

YunaGirl05
02-18-2005, 02:58 PM
all i know is you just said lots of big words that aren't in my vocbulary

Clouded Sky
02-18-2005, 06:08 PM
Wow. Very thoughtful conversation. Just what I've come to expect from my EoFF community. I wholeheartedly agree with Schlup, Abominatrix, and Roogle here.

I genuinely believe that there are people with disorders, and some of the disorders can only be treated with medicine. For these people it's all fine and well. The problem with society today is they have such a perverse vision on who has disorders. The arguement that parents are trying to shirk off responsibilitly has been cited many times. And I mean, think about it. Most parents want the very best things for their child. They think their child is better than everyone else. If the child misbehaves, there is NO WAY it could be the child's fault. It must be some terrible disorder that our son/daughter will have to live with for the rest of his/her life.

Not only is it a very easy way to avoid responsibility onn part of the child and the parents, it is even more so a cry for attention. Look at me! I'm SPECIAL. Look at my kid, he's got a disorder but we put him on drugs and he's all better now. Aren't we just stellar parents?

Another thing to consider here - the doctors doing the diagnosing. If they diagnose a kid with something, the parents will be more inclined to take the kid back for checkups on this disorder - meaning more money for the doctor, or on a higher level, the medical establishment. I know what I'm saying may sound very implausible though, I mean, people wouldn't overexagerate for money, would they? Not in America, right?

Like I said earlier, I believe there are people who genuinely have disorders, and benefit from medication, but the moment everyone in America is a self-taught doctor and can diagnose themselves and others with "imaginary disorders" is the day I begin diagnosing all of you with disorders... all from an online forum.