End of Final Fantasy VIII?

[kalabora]

Can anyone explain exatly what happened in the end movie?

[mitchellmeek]

ok... it's been a while, especially because my disc4 has a scratch on it and freezes during the last movie! :cry: BUT: here's my interpretation/recollection:

they defeat Ultimecia and they decide to go back to their time. The group all decide to head for the orphanage - a place that symbolises there strong emotional connection with one another (remember laguna said that the only way to survive in a time compressed world is to believe in your friends existance, and they will believe in yours? to get back, they need to head to a place they all know and are connected by). So, they all go to the orphanage. Squall, however, always filled with insecurity about being left alone and deserted... cannot reach the same place as the others, and goes back to the point where Edea accepts Ultimecia's powers (and at the same time tells her about Garden and SeeD, which she will start later and train him in the first place! ARG! I'm getting a headache! damn time travel!) then leaves because thats not where he belongs. This feeling of not belonging play's on him once again (as it has his whole life) and he starts to feel lost. When he see's Rinoa, who doesnt answer, he starts to walk through the endless landscape - symbolic of his mind - searching for those that he loves. But he can't find them... they have abandoned him! (thats what he thinks anyway), then he starts to see Rinoa, all the times she has been in his life... climaxing when he space helmet breaks (her death). This is too much for Squall and he starts to drown in time. Rinoa then decides to find Squall... go to their special place ("...if you come here, you'll find me. i promise...") She finds him, but he's already gone... lost in time. She starts to weep, but these tears prove to the slowly dying squall that he is not alone and he wakes up.

woooo. thats the first part. If i remember right, the garden then goes over balamb and seifer, raijin and fujin are a posse once more, seifer seeing the garden reminds him of his rival and the times that he spent in the garden and the memories he shares with the crew (orphanage) and is content.

flash to Laguna! he is at peace now... and looks back to his lover, Raine. (flashback) They were 'married' in a sense and always loved one another, even tho laguna wasn't there when she died and when there son was born (i'm led to believe that it's squall... and it makes sense).

MY GAME FREEZES HERE, SO IM GOING FROM MEMORY

back to the present, and laguna is at raine's grave with ellone, kiros and ward. all are happy, laguna is with the ones he loves and is happy.

alright... dont remember whats next... maybe the credits? during the credits, it shows everyone at Garden... all except Squall and Rinoa. The video camera shows the crew around and about, choking on food (zell) hitting on chicks (irvine) etc etc. Then, the camera battery dies as we see rinoa on the balcony. afterwards we see her on the balcony as a shooting star goes past. Just like before, she smiles across the room, at squall, who is SMILING!!!! the two kiss. a happy ending! WHOOOO!

think thats it. wow. corrections or additions? please post! my games busted :cry:

[rubah]

that sounds about right. the world is returning from the effects of almost-being-time-compressed which is when they're running around with little motion trails, squall forgets to think of love friendship and courage, some people say rinoa uses her sorceress powers to revive him and the entire world around him. I think she was just the love and friendship and courage he needed to find his way back:)

and don't forget raijin showing off his balamb fish (did he finally end up catching the right one? It'd be sad if squall and company saved the world from time compression just so he could go and catch the nasty badamb fish again:P) and getting kicked. That was priceless.

oh and kalaboro, yay arkansas. You dont' see many people from here online, seems like:)

[Paksenarrion]

Don't forget, during the party at the end, you get to see Edea and Cid together, like a happy couple should be. :)

Whenever Laguna proposed to Raine that night, I cried, becuase you know that she dies. Such a sad part.

And Squall being Laguna's son, is a DEFINITE fact. Kiros and Ward tell Squall sometime on disc 3, that they're glad Squall took after his mom in the looks department and not his dad. >.< haha.

[<LionHeart>]

Yeah, FF finishes exactlly as it should (as mitch mentioned) and it's just enough to tie the story together for the ending. Oh and let's not forget that we alse get to see thoose "gifts from fairies Laguna mentiones about in his dreams" as the Balamb Garden hovers above Laguna and the others

[Heartless Shadow]

you can download the ff8 ending at www.bluelaguna.net if you want to see it for your self and cant be botheired completeing it :D :D

[Yuffie514]

so when Ultimecia appears to Edea (in the past :tongue: ) and transfers her powers to her, does that mean anything :confused: ? i haven't played in quite a long while :mad: , but Edea got her powers from Adel :confused: ?

[Sir Bahamut]

Edea got her powers from an unknown sorceress at 5, and then again from Ultimecia, as seen in the ending.

It does make up a loop, like so:

Edea receives powers from Ultimecia-Edea gives powers to Rinoa-Rinoas powers move on and eventually reach Ultimecia-Ultimecia gives Edea her powers-Etc.

This is because of the timetravelling done in the ending causes a sort of loop in time which makes circularity like that perfectly natural.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

Right - Edea's powers had nothing to do with Adel. Some people suspected that Edea recieved her powers from Adel because they thought Adel was dead, but that is not the case. Adel is very much alive for most of the game and retains her own powers. When you defeat Adel on disc 3 (or is it 4?), Rinoa absorbs Adel's powers.

[Skyblade]

And she already had the powers that she got from Edea. So she becomes the most powerful sorceress in the history of the world! Bwa ha ha ha ha! :D

[seiyuimore]

Not only that but he ONLY sorcerer left in the world. If not then Laguna would definately won't be that positive of Ultimecia used other person

[Yuffie514]

i know that Edea already had sorceress powers :) , but what good does it do for Ultimecia to go back and time and give it to her :mad: , when in the present, Rinoa has it now :mad: ? if that meeting did end up altering the present :) , then does that make Edea still a sorceress :mad: :p ?

[Sir Bahamut]

i know that Edea already had sorceress powers , but what good does it do for Ultimecia to go back and time and give it to her , when in the present, Rinoa has it now ?

I don't understand, sorry. Could you try and rephrase that(don't hesitate spelling it out for me).


if that meeting did end up altering the present , then does that make Edea still a sorceress

Not as we see her in the end of the game, no. But it certainly didn't change anything, so it doesn't matter.

[Yuffie514]

what i was asking was what is the point in Ultimecia going to the past to give Edea her powers :mad: when she (Edea) doesn't have her powers any longer :mad: . and, if the past is altered, it also alters the present :eek: , so maybe Edea is a sorceress again :mad: :p ?

[Skyblade]

Ultimecia gave Edea her powers before Edea lost her powers. Before Ultimecia ever possessed Edea, for that matter.

[Yuffie514]

yeah, but first she inherited her powers from a unknown sorceress :) . that's what i don't get :mad: . she inherits power, loses it, and then inherits it from Ultimecia again :eek: :p , unless -- could that sorceress have possibly been Ultimecia :mad: ? i know a sorceress has to give her powers to someone else before she dies :eek: , but why would Ultimecia choose to go to Edea :mad: ?

[Skyblade]

No, she inherits power from unknown sorceress, inherits Ultimecia's powers, then loses her powers.

[Yuffie514]

so she actually inherited powers twice :eek: ? no wonders she's so damn powerful :evilking: . well she's easy to beat :) , but it was so funny watching my brother fight her :bgl: 'cuz it'll be at least 5 losses before he finally defeats her, lol :laughing: !

[SeeDRankLou]

so when Ultimecia appears to Edea (in the past :tongue: ) and transfers her powers to her, does that mean anything :confused: ? i haven't played in quite a long while :mad: , but Edea got her powers from Adel :confused: ?
It means that the important events of the game begin and end at the same moment. Someone once explained rather well how that was an interesting phenomena, I have forgot exactly how it went.

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

Yeah! Edea said she got her powers from a sorceress on the verge of death AND she knew Squall was "The Boy From The Future..." So then...time must've got screwed aroung with all those eyars ago too...I dunno...this brainracking is confusing.

[Sir Bahamut]

Edeas comment about Squall being "that boy from the future" doesn't have anything to do with the loop screwing up her knowledge or anything. She simply deduces from his comments that he is that boy, ie. little Squall in the future.

[AkiraMakie]

ok question. I perfectly understand the whole looping process on how the power gets back around and all, but here is where it doesnt make since. If Rinoa passed the powers of edea, ulitemecia, and adel on down the line back to Ultimecia in teh future, how could rinoa once again recieve adel's powers again on the 3rd (4th?) disk? shouldnt she have already had adel's powers when Edea passed on the powers to her?

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

I don't know...something to think about, that's for sure. But wait, Edea never had Adel's power! The sorceress she found on the verge of death was Ultimecia, it's looped. She never ecieved Adel's power until disc 4.

[Sir Bahamut]

Yes, you've just discovered what might appear to be a paradox of some sort. The powers seem to continously add up for each loop, so the powers of each sorceress seem to increase for every round. However, this is not a flaw in the game, it is a flaw in our wording and understanding of the loop.

You see, the events of the loop only happen once, so the powers only go ONE round. Any other subsequent round are ONLY pure repetitions of what happened the last time around, ie. similar to watching a video over and over(the events of the video happened only once, but we can watch the video as many times as we want). Because it's a loop, wer can go around it as many times as we want, but the events in it are the same each time. Ellone tells us this when she says that "you can't change the past".

Because of this fact, the sorceress powers don't increase continously. All other rounds of the loop have no relevance, and can be cut out by principle of economy. If the powers DID add up, the past would change, contradicting Ellone. Furhtermore, if the powers added up, Ultimecia would eventually become so powerful that she'd break the loop and compress time, meaning we shouldn't realisitcally be able to play the game!

You can read in more detail here:

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_viii_time_ultimecia.txt

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

I wasn't implying that we could change the past I was implying that if Squall and co go and defeat Ultimeica blah blah blah, then Ultimeica can still be born, right? So what's going to happen when it reaches that time. Squall and co would be...uh...dead, right? So they couldn't exactly come back to life. And doesn't that mean that they can change the future??? And doc odine's "Junction-machine-Ellone" invention allows Ultimeica to go into the past and she makes Rinoa and Edea do things they wouldn't normally do. Isn't that classified as changing the past??? Ugh, this is hurting my brain.

[AkiraMakie]

I don't know...something to think about, that's for sure. But wait, Edea never had Adel's power! The sorceress she found on the verge of death was Ultimecia, it's looped. She never ecieved Adel's power until disc 4.


no, first off, Edea recieved her powers from a dying sorceress when she was 5. she recieved the powers from ultimecia some time during her adulthood. AND if you think about it Edea WOULD have adel's powers because Rinoa had them. It would have been passed on eventually to Ultimecia who then passes them back to Edea. my head hurts....

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

Yeah, but then Ultimecia would be born again and who would she get her powers from?
Who thinks writing a letter to Square-enix is a good idea????

[Sir Bahamut]

I wasn't implying that we could change the past I was implying that if Squall and co go and defeat Ultimeica blah blah blah, then Ultimeica can still be born, right? So what's going to happen when it reaches that time. Squall and co would be...uh...dead, right? So they couldn't exactly come back to life.

I was actually talking the poster above you, just so that is clear.

But yes, Ultimecia WILL eventually be born, long after Squall and Co are dead of course. Bit what will happen is that some time after she rises to power, Squall and Co will arrive from the past and kill her, freeing the world from Ultimecia.


And doesn't that mean that they can change the future??? And doc odine's "Junction-machine-Ellone" invention allows Ultimeica to go into the past and she makes Rinoa and Edea do things they wouldn't normally do. Isn't that classified as changing the past???

It wouldn't be changing a thing if all events related to timetravel were ALSO set in stone. In other words, the line of time would be bumpy, not smooth.


no, first off, Edea recieved her powers from a dying sorceress when she was 5. she recieved the powers from ultimecia some time during her adulthood. AND if you think about it Edea WOULD have adel's powers because Rinoa had them. It would have been passed on eventually to Ultimecia who then passes them back to Edea. my head hurts....

Yes, technically speaking Edea has Adels powers. But as I explained above, the powers don't increase for each round of the loop.


Yeah, but then Ultimecia would be born again and who would she get her powers from?

She'd get her powers from whatever sorceress came before her.

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

OK, I'm beginning to understand this seriously screwed situation...so thanx for that.

[seiyuimore]

The thing that confused me is, why Ultimecia followed Squall? Why she didn't follow the others to squall's time? :confused:

Or Squall appeared just coincidently at the time where Ultimecia transfered her power to Edea?

And since Ellone said that "you can't change the past." means that no matter what, Doc Odine will make "Junction-Machine Ellone"?

[ShivaBlizzard8]

The thing that confused me is, why Ultimecia followed Squall? Why she didn't follow the others to squall's time? :confused: Or Squall appeared just coincidently at the time where Ultimecia transfered her power to Edea?
I think that what we forget is that according to the theory of time travel that FF8 has adopted (because there are several), whatever happens in the past has already happened, regardless of whether or not the cause for it has. In other words, the effect PRECEEDS the cause.
In this case, we know, long before time compression, that:
1. Ulty will journey to the past and give her powers to Edea.
2. Squall will give Edea the idea for Garden and SeeD.

If these two events had not occured in the past, then Garden would not exist in the present, and Edea would not have Ulty's powers.

Therefore, at the end of the game, Ulty and Squall ending up in the past is Fate - they're furfilling what has technically already happened. Neither really has a choice - its how it worked out. The "children of fate" idea of FF8, given the timeloop nature of the game, really applies to everyone. They're all at its mercy.

And since Ellone said that "you can't change the past." means that no matter what, Doc Odine will make "Junction-Machine Ellone"?
First, Doc Odine doesn't make Junction Machine Ellone; if the technology was possible in the present he would have made it already. The machine is his theory what future scientists may have created as a result of his research on Ellone and her ability.
Second, although its not the past, the idea that you can't change fate means that yes, Junction Machine Ellone will be built in the future and Ulty will use it to travel into the past and begin the cycle anew.

This theory of time travel ensures this. No matter what people might do to try to prevent Ulty's birth or the construction of JME, it will happen, somehow, and fate will take its course.

[AkiraMakie]

Another interesting thing about this whole time looping business is this; Did Edea come up with SeeD or did Squall? I mean, of course Edea created it. But had Squall not come back through time and told Edea about SeeD, she would have never known. And had Edea never created SeeD Squall would have never been in the position to go back in time to tell Edea about SeeD. man, hell of a loop in time.

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

Good point. I think, Edea created SeeD AFTER Squall appeared 'cause she didn't know what the hell he was going on about. And, I guess...in a way, Squall DID make it up.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

That's true - I hadn't thought about it much before. It's like the chicken and the egg: If Squall hadn't told Edea about Garden, then she wouldn't have built it, but at the same time, if Squall hadn't grown up in Garden and been a SeeD, he wouldn't have been able to tell Edea about it. It's like arg! Who started this crazy thing! :p

Fortunately, because again, the effect (Garden being created) preeceeds the cause (Squall traveling back in time) it works. Although it gives me a headache.

[Squall of SeeD]

First, Doc Odine doesn't make Junction Machine Ellone; if the technology was possible in the present he would have made it already.

He had made it already, but due to technological limitations, it wasn't as powerful as it would be in Ultimecia's time:


Doc Odine
"Eghhhhhh!"
"I kept this a secret to surprise you...It iz because of me, Odine!"
"I researched Ellone's power long ago."
"I made out a pattern from ze electric current running through Ellone's
brain."
"Once ze pattern was determined, it was easy to mechanize."
"It may only be a toy right now, but in ze time of Ultimecia, it iz an
impressive working machine!"
"Which means there iz a machine which imitates Ellone's power."
"It iz I who made ze first model of zat machine."
"I named ze machine 'Junction Machine Ellone'!"
"It iz a wonderful thing to know that my invention is used in ze future!"

[rubah]

you guys need to read more comic books.

Something happens naturally the first time, then on successive loopingsback into time, it happens the second way, and and it's as though the first way never happened.

(or if you're a discworld fan, the monks at the Oi-Dong accidentally pasted the wrong segment of time in when ultimecia did her time compression fun:D)

[Sir Bahamut]

Because comic books hold all the answers to questions on time and space?

But to be serious, it is possible that there was an original time that didn't start with Ultimecia arriving from the future, but which leads to her travelling back. This is a line of time which can be changed. After the loop is created, it would basically remain forever like it was, rendering it identical to the unchanging time as far as the loop is concerned.

Now, I believe time doesn't chage simply because Ellone says so, but there are reasons why she might not know the full truth. I'd link you to an FAQ I wrote on Gamefaqs on the subject, but I can't directly link there. It's under the FF8 section, called "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ".

[amratis]

(or if you're a discworld fan, the monks at the Oi-Dong accidentally pasted the wrong segment of time in when ultimecia did her time compression fun:D)

lol, what a cross-over that would be :D

[Mavrick]

is it possible for the desert or wasteland to represent squalls life and how it was empty and nothingness untill rinoa shows up and makes his life (world) a better place. clearing the clouds and filling it with light and lush fields or green. something like that

[Mirage]

Time loops never start, and never end :(. They're either eternal, or non-existing. I think arguing about what happened first is a waste of time.

[Skyblade]

(or if you're a discworld fan, the monks at the Oi-Dong accidentally pasted the wrong segment of time in when ultimecia did her time compression fun:D)

lol, what a cross-over that would be :D

Sam Vimes meets Squall. That would be...interesting...

[enigma1234]

If you really look into the game if squall and the others didn't defeat ultimecia then ultimecia wouldn't transfer all her powers to edea and all the things that happened in the past,present,future wouldn't occured. (I could be wrong, ya know)

[x_Hopeless_Deviate_x]

I didn't really like the ending other than the part with Laguna and Raine...
I hated the video camera part because I despise Selphie.
She looks even more obnoxious with Irvine's stupid hat on.
:mad:

[Rinoa_Heartillly]

The ending could have been better. The only part that I liked was Zell with the hotdogs, if only they showed him passing out over choking on them. ^^

[Future Esthar]

I agree with the "original time" thing.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

When Squall's in that desert place, I was wondering if he is really there, or if he's dreaming, and when Rinoa finds him he just had some sort of mental attack (with the flash backs) and fainted. Actually, one of my friends brought this up whenI showed her th ending.

[GunbladeMaster]

Once upon a time there was a time when garden DIDNT exist. A time where Squall was never they way he is now and the Orphanage Gang never met.

But along came the idiotic genius Dr Odine and created Junction Machine Ellone, a machine that allowed u to time travel basically. However his machine never truly worked.

Sadly centuries into the future a powerful sorceress named Ultimecia came to power and used this Machine for her own personal doings. She wanted to compress time into a single moment in one single time period.

So she did wat any of us would do, she went back in time before Squall and the gang and changed every1 lives and her own fate too. She created the world of FF8 as it is now.

Thus she created the time loop. Forever more would the original time be lost. Squall and gang beat Ultimecia and then she transfered her powers to edea FOR THE FIRST TIME who created Garden and SeeD after this for unknown reasons.

After the 2nd or 3rd time loops did Squall actually give the idea to Edea, but the 1st time she created with no help from Squall
It happened over and over again with no end. Unless the Junction Machine Ellone is destroyed or we can go to the future Ultimecia still lives...

The friggin end.

[Yuna Braska 19]

I like it alot
the happy ending part but the
frist one with the song playing eyes on me that was sad
I cry seeing Squall on the ground.
*tears up*

[HunterFlamebrow]

Haha . . . I think the best solution to all these conundrums is just to realize and accept that:
a) It's time travel. It will NEVER make sense
b) Even if it did make sense, no one has any personal experience (except for the fact that we are all traveling into the future . . . even as you read this very message . . . we-oo-ee-oo)
c) Even if someone did have a true, provable personal experience, the universe of FFVIII clearly works differently than ours (when was the last time YOU saw a Sorceress?).

Just one more thing I'd like to add . . . if you recall, in the battle with True Ultimecia, she rambles on and on about reflecting on your childhood. Perhaps everyone in your party (or maybe just Squall; it doesn't matter to me) sees a moment that they have forgotten because of GF. Thus it is Ultimecia's doing that Squall sees what he does. And, at the risk of starting a cheap, random, meaningless theory, we can say that if it was indeed Squall that inspired Edea to start SeeD, it was Ultimecia that wanted him to. So, in a way, it was Ultimecia who is the true proginator of SeeD (although SHE couldn't have known about it without it existing before, just like Edea, and Squall, and . . . ahh, my head hurts).

Hope that made sense.

[Sir Bahamut]

The timetravelling in FF8 CAN make sense, depending on how you look at it. Check out the "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ" found in the following link:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197343.html

[GunbladeMaster]

yea that FAQ really helped
toinks

[xX.Silver.Wings.Xx]

The first time I finished it (about 3 years ago) it looked to me that Squall goes mad and kills himself. I was so shocked when I saw him again with Rinoa on the Camcorder scene. (Don't laugh. Its just how I saw it...I was young and confused... ^_^)

By the way..., linking to threads in other Forums just sucks. Bad idea...

[Sir Bahamut]

Damn, sorry, meant to link to the FAQ page. Edited my post to be correct.

[HunterFlamebrow]

Yeah, I've read that FAQ, and it does make sense . . .

But do you *honestly* think that the designers of the game intended the game's inticracies to only be understandable through a 70-page long explanation of the physics of the universe? Personally, I don't.
But I'm willing to overlook this little flaw in the game -- after all, it's still a wonderful game, and hey, I'll bet Squall doesn't really get it either. :)