Gay Main Character [Archive] - Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums

Psychotic

02-25-2005, 01:17 AM

Ansem: Making an FF with a Gay male main character would be a nifty way to make them tolerant. After all, everyone wants to play FF, so they'd just have to deal with it.Hmm, that also reminds me. I'm sure many of you know of GTA: San Andreas - I suspect it's more popular than FF, but I'm not sure. The main character is black. On several online forums I saw people claiming they weren't going to buy the game because the main character was black. If this level of intolerance still exists towards black people, I can't begin to imagine the outcry against FFwhatever if it had a homosexual main character, especially as a heck of a lot of gamers are all "omg ure a n00b fag lol!" (No, not all by any stretch of the imagination, but a sizeable amount are).

Plus there'd be the religious zealots who think they can dictate how everyone lives their lives demanding the games be pulled off the shelves because god forbid anyone different from them be allowed to exist.

It's at times like this that I am glad that I am a white, straight male, when such intolerance still exists in the world.

YukiKiro

02-25-2005, 01:37 AM

if they want to appeal to the minority of gamers (the GREAT minority) especially since now gay marrages are pretty much banned all over the US (except in a few areas), they'd get themnselves into some trouble here in the US. a female is kinky and a male is just plain out wrong (i'm a guy, sue me)

rubah

02-25-2005, 01:39 AM

I wouldn't especially like a gay main character, mostly because I'm not gay.

And I don't think subjecting people to gay sex will make them more willing to love and accept gay people.

But that's just me.

and yes, ff7 *did* have a lot of it:P It was a bit embarassing to play in front of my parents, who are probably a lot less tolerant than I am.
(but it was still funny^_^ (which was why it was included))

Lord Xehanort

02-25-2005, 01:42 AM

Ansem: *glares at Yuki*I'm a guy too, and I don't see your logic. *coldly* Enlighten me...

Kounetsu: I'm impressed, Ansem! You're usually all calm and collected! Give it to him again! JERRY! JERRY!

Destai

02-25-2005, 01:43 AM

Isnt it called sexually insecure?

Lord Xehanort

02-25-2005, 01:44 AM

Isnt it called sexually insecure?
Makes sense to me, Des.

Psychotic

02-25-2005, 01:44 AM

And I don't think subjecting people to gay sex will make them more willing to love and accept gay people. I don't remember any other FF game featuring actual on-screen sex.

But I don't think the issue is homosexual acts occuring in game, the issue is would you accept a gay main character?

Destai

02-25-2005, 01:46 AM

Pointing out that the character is gay makes more sexual suggestion than having the main character fall in love.

Jehuty`

02-25-2005, 01:48 AM

I wouldn't really care. I can't really see too much difference between males and females. :confused:

Lord Xehanort

02-25-2005, 01:51 AM

Falling in love with another guy or having sex with him... gay is gay.

Miriel

02-25-2005, 01:51 AM

a female is kinky and a male is just plain out wrong (i'm a guy, sue me)

*eye twitches*

Uughh, now that's an example of one of the worst social constructs of western society. :rolleyes2

Have you ever stopped to wonder why you accept sexual acts between two women as kinky but consider two men together to be wrong?

Really, you should think about it.

Lord Xehanort

02-25-2005, 01:54 AM

*eye twitches*

Uughh, now that's an example of one of the worst social constructs of western society. :rolleyes2

Have you ever stopped to wonder why you accept sexual acts between two women as kinky but consider two men together to be wrong?

Really, you should think about it.

Agreed.

YukiKiro

02-25-2005, 02:06 AM

because i'm a typical male? typical american male actually. but you think about it. to some people two females is more exceptable than two guys, why even I DON'T know.

Giga Guess

02-25-2005, 02:08 AM

I fail to see what the problem is....love is love. If the main character happens to love a person of the same sex or different sex, I fail to see what the issue is.

strawberryman

02-25-2005, 02:22 AM

I really don't care as long as he/she would whoop some ass on the battlefield.

Alice

02-25-2005, 02:32 AM

well im not saying for them to be obvious, just to have a homosexual love story, (who ever said they have to say hes gay or have them have sex...?) its not realistic especially in fantasy to always have straight characters..

and gay marriage is only banned in 8 states out of 50, thats hardly "most of the US"...
thats a bit of a dramatic statement.

Cultures around the world tend to be more supportive and even though countries like japan dont support the marriage issue, the culture there doesnt "hate" or dislike gay people.

If you think its gross... you have issues, all im saying is that if they are goign to have "straight" charas, they should just as well have "gay" charas.

KOTOR II has a lesbian couple, its really interesting, and so far everyone seems to love the game ^_^ if you love the game and the chara is gay, yet you dont like gays, maybe it can teach the ignorant people out there that gays dont affect them >.<

Just some thoughts you know?

o_O

02-25-2005, 02:44 AM

There is no reason why two females together should be more accepted than two males, and as far as I'm concerned, no reason why they shouldn't be accepted to any degree in the first place. The only reason this occurs is because horny straight guys get off over two women performing sexual acts, whether or not they're in love doesn't make a difference. :{
Straight guys generally don't like looking at males, so they are quick to condemn it.

A gay main character would certainly be a surprise, a twist in the stereotypical plot of RPGs, and I think it's pretty unanimous that plot is (almost) everything in an RPG, so how bad could it be?

I'm indifferent to the main character's sexual preference, after all, it's just another element in the story.

kikimm

02-25-2005, 02:52 AM

It would definitley be different, and would surprise the hell out of me---but only because it's never been done before. There have been gay characters in games that I've played---it doesn't make the game any worse or any better. SO I don't exactly have a strong opinion about it either way, I guess. But, personally, the way I see it, I think many of the gamers out there wouldn't like it, if the main character was gay; keep in mind that this is NOT me. But that's the way I see it. I don't think it's going to happen for a very long time.

EDIT: I, too, don't understand why girlXgirl is more tolerated....in our society. Many of my male friends who think this way have tried to explain it to me, but they haven't come up with any arguments that have managed to enlighten me.

rubah

02-25-2005, 02:56 AM

I don't remember any other FF game featuring actual on-screen sex.
But I don't think the issue is homosexual acts occuring in game, the issue is would you accept a gay main character?

I was referring to one of ansem's Kounetsu's earlier comments, not to the games themselves:) And I answered the topic question right before that.

Miriel

02-25-2005, 04:01 AM

because i'm a typical male? typical american male actually. but you think about it. to some people two females is more exceptable than two guys, why even I DON'T know.

I have thought about it. And I've studied gender and sexual relations enough to know that the intolerance of homosexuality is most definitely something that is constructed by western society. People aren't innately turned on, or turned off by homosexuality. Society has told you that to be a man, you must act a certain way. Straight men see homosexuals as a threat to that image of what a MAN is supposed to be. There's a reason why women hardly ever have such visceral reactions against homosexual men. Take a look at the insults men sling at homosexuals, often it's some sort of derogatory term that relates gay men with women (queen, fairy, and another term that I won't list here)

Being attracted to women is what straight men understand. So women being attracted to other women is acceptable to men, whereas being attracted to a man is unfathomable to some heterosexual men.

And just so you know, the Kinsey studies showed that the 50% of the "typical american male" has acted on homosexual feelings while still considering themselves to be heterosexual.

SomethingBig

02-25-2005, 04:07 AM

Why would it be bad to have an everyday FF main character who is homosexual? "This game is great! The main character is so freaking awesome! He's so cool! What?! The main character's gay?! Aw, what a horrible character! WHAT A HORRIBLE GAME! What's worse is that the main character is a male! Female gays are totally fine, though!"

The Captain

02-25-2005, 04:48 AM

"And just so you know, the Kinsey studies showed that the 50% of the "typical american male" has acted on homosexual feelings while still considering themselves to be heterosexual."

Indeed, I believe the urban term for it is "On The Down-low".

I'd have no problem with it if they do it correctly and don't just have a token homosexual character, which as Paul pointed out would completely destroy any hopes of actual toleration.

Take care all.

Giga Guess

02-25-2005, 04:58 AM

Exactly, Cap. If it's a "Gay Hero" I could see it going downhill. FAST! If it's a hero who happens to be gay, on the other hand....it could work...

master01

02-25-2005, 05:41 AM

but there was a gay main charecter...
bratz...

strawberryman

02-25-2005, 05:52 AM

Sexual intents of a video game character mean nothing to me as long as they don't suck in battle. I have seen several instances in RPG's where I could almost swear a character is gay, but who cares? Sure it would be different to see a gay main character, but unless it's a romance type game (Which I will never play) it really has nothing to do with the main plot.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-25-2005, 06:01 AM

Just about every Final Fantasy game has had some kind of romantic sub-plot concerning the main character. So, yes, it would definitely affect the plot.

strawberryman

02-25-2005, 06:09 AM

Just about every Final Fantasy game has had some kind of romantic sub-plot concerning the main character. So, yes, it would definitely affect the plot.
Not the plot where you go and kill things and try to beat the big bad guy.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-25-2005, 06:18 AM

Ah, yes, the plot you get if you don't pay attention to character interaction at all.

strawberryman

02-25-2005, 06:22 AM

Ah, yes, the plot you get if you don't pay attention to character interaction at all.
Okay- I was obviously wrong about the romance thing, so I give up.
But that does'nt change the fact that I don't care if there's a gay main character.

DocFrance

02-25-2005, 06:26 AM

I think the problem with a gay main character would involve the game company trying to milk it. They would likely expect a great deal of controversy, as well as publicity. And there's no such thing as bad publicity. So the game companies start milking it for all it's worth. They make press releases about it, they emphasize it on game posters, basically saying "HEY, LOOK EVERYONE! THE MAIN CHARACTER IS GAY!!!" So, the game finally is released, and the main character is gay. Um... what now? Where do we go from here? What I'm trying to say is, the hype would imply that the character's sexual orientation is central to the story, even though it wouldn't be. If the main character was black, would that be the center of the story? No, unless it was an RPG set during the Civil Rights Movement or the Civil War.

In short, while there's no real reason to have a gay main character, there's also no real reason to not have a gay main character. I would prefer if it wasn't the focus of the story.

And now I'm gonna get a bunch of people jumping on my ass about how I'm a homophobe.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-25-2005, 06:35 AM

If the main character was black, would that be the center of the story? No, unless it was an RPG set during the Civil Rights Movement or the Civil War.Which would be awesome.

Alice

02-25-2005, 06:37 AM

actually doc france i see your point and its very valid... :)

but you do never know until you try it... eh, maybe they shouldnt do it in an ff game but atleast another game by the company so they can see how it works. Im tired of only seeing the normal straight white person in a game... more diversity....

its even rare you see a black person as a main chara :(

DocFrance

02-25-2005, 07:57 AM

Now, imagine if the creators didn't release that info to the public until they released the game. What if it was to be a complete surprise to the player? I wonder what the reaction would be.

Erdrick Holmes

02-25-2005, 12:52 PM

Hmm, that also reminds me. I'm sure many of you know of GTA: San Andreas - I suspect it's more popular than FF.

Nah, there's a difference between that. Some FFs (keep in mind, SOME) are great, GTA games suck.

Anyway, I don't think it would matter if an Final Fantasy main hero was gay or not. Even if he was straight somebody would stick him in a yaoi fanfiction that some FF fangirl would print twelve dozen copies of.

Cless

02-25-2005, 01:13 PM

I'm a heterosexual male, and I would have no problems at all with a homosexual main character in a Final Fantasy. As long as it was handled right, it would have the potential to be very interesting. I would love to see what they would do with the story and the themes that they could inject into it. But, I doubt a large number of gamers would take this very well.

It's for this reason, that I don't think it will ever happen. Not in a million years, unless a large number of peoples attitudes and opinions take a drastic change.

Nyssane

02-25-2005, 06:16 PM

I'm gay, but I'd prefer to play as a straight male main character. :D It just makes things more interesting that way. It'd be fun to see a party member that is gay, though, but it doesn't bother me much to not see any. Just like we hardly see any black characters or overweight female characters. *shrug* It's just how it is.

MecaKane

02-25-2005, 07:22 PM

Nah, there's a difference between that. Some FFs (keep in mind, SOME) are great, GTA games suck.

Of course, what you think of the games makes them popular, or not. Watch now as they make news stories and late night show jokes about the new Final Fantasy game, and not about Halo or GTA. Oh wait, they don't. Final Fantasy is still pretty under the radar, as it hasn't gotten any of the crap pokemon got for having witchcraft elements, ice fire thunder water, etc..
Something like a gay character could completly mainstream Final Fantasy through all the controversy.

DocFrance

02-25-2005, 07:51 PM

I could argue that we've already had a gay main character - he just doesn't come out in the game.

DJZen

02-25-2005, 08:41 PM

And now I'm gonna get a bunch of people jumping on my ass about how I'm a homophobe.

I'd actually like to shake your hand for that statement, it's 100% true.

I'm a homosexual male, and I have to say that when I'm playing a Final Fantasy game, I'd be hard pressed to care less about the sexual preferences of the characters. I'd also be hard pressed to care one way or the other about their hair color or skin dryness. I'm focused on levelling up and killing more stuff, not on who's smooching who. If Squenix ever manages to pull off a romantic angle that isn't nauseatingly terrible, then I think this discussion might have a little more merit since we'd be talking about a more mature type of love story that an adult could get behind, NOT some squealing, yaoi reading fangirl (or fanboy, you know who you guys are!).

If they were going to include a gay character, they'd have to handle it a lot better than they handled having a black character for the first time. Barret could host his own minstrel show if he wanted to. Thankfully they kinda made up for that with Kiros. Now, if the gay character were like James Gandolfini's character from The Mexican, that'd be a different story. It could be done properly, but it really is doubtful that they would.

.....Waitaminute..... Couldn't you make Claude fall in love with a guy in Star Ocean 2?

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-25-2005, 09:11 PM

Yang was the first black playable character, not Bullet.

Doomgaze

02-25-2005, 09:42 PM

You should play Suikoden. I don't think there's a straight man in the series.

...Yang does not appear to be black to me.

Yuffie514

02-25-2005, 10:12 PM

DJZen

02-25-2005, 10:27 PM

Yang was the first black playable character, not Bullet.

http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/4-yang-a.gif

Hmmm.... He's an awfully pale black man.... And I simply MUST know what brand of relaxer he's using to get his hair that straight!

Doomgaze

02-25-2005, 10:40 PM

i don't mind homosexual sub-characters :) , but i think i'd stop playing FF if the next main character turns gay :eek: . hopefully -- it won't spread into the whole series or else it'll be like FF meets Will & Grace :eek: :mad: . i'm sorry, i'm a straight person ;) . please don't turn FF into Will & Grace :p !

You being a straight person has nothing to do with it. The word you are looking for is "homophobe."

That said, I agree with Doc - if they did it, it'd likely be exploited for controversy. Also worth noting is that the last two MGS games have had bisexual or gay characters.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-25-2005, 11:14 PM

Yang is clearly black in the game. You may as well argue that Garnet is a blonde. Black doesn't have to mean "African," either, so it's not like his hair has to be all nappy.

Lord Xehanort

02-25-2005, 11:57 PM

because i'm a typical male? typical american male actually. but you think about it. to some people two females is more exceptable than two guys, why even I DON'T know.

Saying that you're a 'typical American male' is just an excuse to attempt to mask your insecurities. Honestly, homophobes could just admit that they're homophobic, then the healing can begin.

Oh, and Yuki? Maybe you should take into consideration that I'm a gay boy before you start saying that gay boys are 'just wrong'. Remember, admittance is the first step to recovery.

Destai

02-25-2005, 11:58 PM

I think hes just tanned.
I dont think I can think of any games with openly gay characters in it.

?M?y?s?t?e?r?i?o?u?s?

02-26-2005, 12:23 AM

Someone who is gay is a person also. If You were gay and nobody liked you and picked on u wouldnt you feel bad. I have a Friend who is a male and hes gay but I accept him as a human not a freak.
So realy it would be interesting to have a gay main character.

Peace Out ?M?y?s?t?e?r?i?o?u?s? :Juggalo 4 life:

Flamethrower

02-26-2005, 01:03 AM

Yang is clearly black in the game.

What makes him clearly black, because I don't see it.

Anyway, a gay main character wouldn't matter to me, as long as the story's good. That's all I really care about.

Sepho

02-26-2005, 01:07 AM

Yang has never appeared to me to be black. I've always considered him to be more of middle eastern or Arabian heritage. Think Karnov.

Alice

02-26-2005, 01:25 AM

Yang looks chinese to me... eh!

All the final fantasys from 7+ have some kind of love story inbetween, and its probably my favorite part, ff 8 wouldnt the same without rinoa and squal, 9 wouldnt be the same without garnet and zidane, and 10(2) the whole story was that yuna was looking for tidus... cuz she loved him.. 7... pretty obvious between aerith and cloud.. >.<

see so obviously the love story plays more into it than you think.. the game istn about fighting, its about the stories :P they dont just make these games to make u fight, if they jus twanted you to fight theyd sell u knives!

DocFrance

02-26-2005, 01:33 AM

If Yang is black, then so is General Leo.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-26-2005, 01:56 AM

http://norbert-x.com/rock/userfiles/Kishi/yangisacoloredperson.png

It does get indistinct the further you zoom out, but Yang is darker than everyone else except Edge and Cid, who are dark in their own ways, and of course we never actually see Golbeza's skin.

EDIT: General Leo is white as can be.

http://norbert-x.com/rock/userfiles/Kishi/generalleoisnotapersonofcolor.png

Flamethrower

02-26-2005, 02:08 AM

Just because his skin is darker than most of the others doesn't mean he's black. Middle-eastern people typically have darker skin than caucasians. Edge looks more black than Yang does.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-26-2005, 02:12 AM

Again, black doesn't have to mean African.

Flamethrower

02-26-2005, 02:18 AM

Alright then, but by your definition, wouldn't Josef be the first black Final Fantasy character? Him and Yang look awfully similiar.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-26-2005, 02:34 AM

Not really, though.

http://norbert-x.com/rock/userfiles/Kishi/redwhitepeachgoldbluevomit.png

Flamethrower

02-26-2005, 02:45 AM

Haha, I don't even know which one of those is Josef. I'm guessing he's the balding guy with blue hair. I've only played Dawn of Souls, and in that game, I think he looks similiar to Yang. Still, even in the original game, look at his status portrait.

Josef:

http://eyesonff.com/ff2/images/2-josef-f.gif

Yang:

http://www.fools-gold.org/forum/images/avatars/ff4-yangfangleiden-monk.gif

They look similiar to me.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-26-2005, 02:54 AM

Well, in that sense, sure.

DJZen

02-26-2005, 03:07 AM

Actually, now that I think about it..... Yang looks a LOT like Karnov.... And in his profile picture he really doesn't look black at all. Sorry, 'kishi, I think you're gonna have to conceed this one.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-26-2005, 03:45 AM

Not at all. In FFIV, a character's battle sprite is his most prominent image and therefore his most definitive, superceding his profile portrait the same way it supercedes his concept art.

Sephex

02-26-2005, 03:53 AM

You guys, Kishi just knows this stuff. Back off.

Del Murder

02-26-2005, 06:28 AM

I always thought the name Yang and the fact that he's a martial artist and comes from a castle full of martial artists that has Chinese sounding music would imply that he was modeled in after a person of Chinese descent. I don't know why I think the music of Fabul sounds Chinese, but it does.

As for gay main characters, I wouldn't want one in a game soley for the fact that it would be a big deal and it would get a lot of hype. Then the plot would focus on the person's gayness instead of fighting some crazy villain or your father or something. If you had to fight your father because he didn't like that you were gay then that would be pretty cool, though. During the makeout scene in FFX I cringed, so the thought of two guys getting a long steamy FMV is not appealing to me. But if that aspect of the character's personality is done subtly and tastefully then I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as the battle system was fun.

ShunNakamura

02-26-2005, 05:34 PM

As long as they had a good plot in which the character was gay it would be fine. If they did there research they could have teh main character treated as gays are in the most intolerent of cultures in some of the cities... this would add some depth... obviousally it would be like the inn in thamasa(did I spell that right) in FFVI where they charge outrageous prices.... untill you talk to strago.

Anyways.... I do have to aggree taht too much hype and sterotypes probably wouldn't be good.

Doomgaze

02-26-2005, 05:45 PM

Yeah, Yang is clearly not black. It's just not the right skin tone. As has been said, if anyone is black based ont heir sprites, it's Edge. (not saying I think he is, either)

DocFrance

02-26-2005, 06:43 PM

I think a more appropriate term would be dark-skinned. "Black" more often than not implies being African.

Ultima Shadow

02-26-2005, 06:47 PM

There's still too much intolerance in the world. I really can't see why tough...

Anyway... I wouldn't mind a gay character... it would actually be pretty fun if there was another classic love story with a guy and a girl until the very end of the game where the main character suddenly relises that he's gay and actually loves 1 of the other guys in the party. :cool:

Tidus: Yuna... I just have to tell you something...
Yuna: Oh, well... what?
Tidus: I'm gay and I love Wakka, not you.
Yuna: WHAT!?
Wakka: AND I LOVE YOU TOO, TIDUS!!!
Yuna: :cry:
Tidus+Wakka: :love:

Or maybe it could be something like this: The main person relises that he's gay and loves the VILLAIN... who (without anyone knowing it) is the brother of the maincharacter but also falls in love with the main character... and then, suddenly... they all relises that the villain actually was a GIRL (the sister of the main character, not the brother) and just LOOKED like a guy (just like Kuja looks like a girl but actually is a guy)... man, THAT would be complicated. :cool:

DocFrance

02-26-2005, 07:24 PM

Does anyone else find it appropriate that the icon for this topic is now flaming?

Kawaii Ryûkishi

02-27-2005, 03:12 AM

Yes.

And I've been using the Malcolm X definition of black. Excuse me.

Lord Xehanort

03-04-2005, 12:45 AM

I thought this thread was aboot gay characters, not black ones.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

03-04-2005, 12:53 AM

What are you, a racist?

Lord Xehanort

03-04-2005, 12:57 AM

No, just trying to grasp the relevancy of this new topic that's spawned. I apologize for offending you.

Lord Chainsaw

03-04-2005, 04:59 AM

Yang to me looks like a Mongol.

Rent the movie The Quest with Jean Claude Van Damme and check out the badguy to see what I mean.

Lucky Charms

03-04-2005, 09:23 AM

I could see a lesbian subplot happening but that'd be put on for a show..

Lionx

03-04-2005, 05:30 PM

Personally i think Yang just has a big tan, i mean in mountains, sweat and training...that kinda thing. Ah well i dont even think it matters, i dont give :/

I wouldnt mind a homosexual main character male or female. As long as its handled right sure its fine with me. Handled right for both homo&hetrosexual relations if there are any in there. What would be great is maybe a bi-sexual character...i think it be a little more interesting..and make it not apparent til a llittle later in the game. I dont know, all i know is that i wouldnt give a crap as long as it stays true to what FF is best known for. Story.

EDIT: Its like not choosing Eagle from SF cuz he is gay...kinda stupid, SF is still SF Eagle gay or not, and he is a great poker.

Memorylight

03-04-2005, 05:40 PM

Who was gay in FF7?
I'm really confused :rolleyes2
Can someone fill me in?

And yeah, it would be cool with a gay main charachter, Square Enix would go down to histrory..... Coooool.....

Square Enix, do it, just do it!!!!

Giga Guess

03-04-2005, 07:50 PM

Didn't you see the "Group Room" scene in the Sector 5(?) slums? And one of the 4 date scenes too..

DocFrance

03-04-2005, 08:33 PM

If Cloud isn't at least somewhat homosexual, then I'm a golden chocobo. The fact that he has two, or even three beautiful women pining for him, yet he ignores them and instead obsesses over his bishounen arch-nemesis/secret lover is enough to convince me. He also seems to be into transvestitism, to boot (not that homosexuality necessarily has anything to do with transvestitism).

Thousands of squeeing yaoi fangirls can't be wrong.

Flamethrower

03-04-2005, 08:48 PM

That's hardly proof that he's gay. If an insanely powerful killer is on the loose, who once destroyed your entire town and almost everyone you knew in it, and he is capable of destroying the entire planet, and you are the only one who can stop him, I'd hope that getting lucky would be the last thing on your mind.

Doomgaze

03-04-2005, 09:25 PM

So wait, did we decide Yang is gay now? What will his wife think? :(

Destai

03-04-2005, 09:30 PM

Yang: "This is Cecil, he saved my life!"
Yangs wife: "Thanks!"

Yeah I think she'll get over it.

DJZen

03-04-2005, 09:52 PM

So wait, did we decide Yang is gay now? What will his wife think? :(

With a moustache like that she shoulda seen it coming...

Hahahaha, I can't believe I forgot Eagle was supposed to be gay. I only learned that after I mastered using him, my reaction was something like "really? he is? learn something new everyday!" I think if a game sorta held it out and just had you thinking of him as the main character with his own personality (tough guy, mopey teen-angst ridden guy, creepy black mage type guy, warrior with a dark secret, etc.) then just kinda added it as an aside, that'd be pretty cool and progressive of them.

Of course, we all know it wouldn't happen like that...

Anyone remember that ridiculous game Fear Effect? It's possible. Anyone remember its sequel? If you do remember it, you probably don't remember that it was Fear Effect 2. Its only "selling point" was that it had a "lesbian" "love" scene. They made sure that you knew about this before you even bought the game through an aggressive ad campaign.

Plus which, gays are gross. Just ask any highschool aged male, and I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you as much.

Lionx

03-04-2005, 10:31 PM

Plus which, gays are gross. Just ask any highschool aged male, and I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you as much.

Through social pressure even the gays will say that..>_>

Yang: "This is Cecil, he saved my life!"
Yangs wife: "Thanks!"

Yeah I think she'll get over it.

:thumb:

And Cloud x Seph forevarz!!

nihowma buffet

03-05-2005, 12:15 AM

wow, i'm just astonished that this topic is still going. lol

Flamethrower

03-05-2005, 12:22 AM

And Cloud x Seph forevarz!!

I was always more of a fan of Cloud x Barret myself.

DocFrance

03-05-2005, 12:39 AM

Pfft, I'm all over Cloud x Bugenhagen.

Lord Xehanort

03-05-2005, 01:01 AM

Quote:
Plus which, gays are gross. Just ask any highschool aged male, and I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you as much.

Through social pressure even the gays will say that..>_>

NEVER!!!!!! I am a high-school aged male! I am gay! And I will never say something like that! NEVER!!!!!!

Dignified Pauper

03-05-2005, 02:21 AM

when I was in highschool and a closeted homo, i always said gays should get married, and what-not, but no one ever questioned me...

As far as a gay character in a video game goes, as long as it was done tastefully, and not tacky, it'd be interesting.

Alice

03-05-2005, 10:50 PM

Well is squresoft wanted to forever go down in history even more than they have.. they always could pull that one out of the magic hat. I know that squareenix has a few comics out with gay characters, they take care well without offending many people. Most japanese people's idea of homosexuality through mainstream culture is that its a normal thing.. but due to that culture they dont talk about it :(

Honestly: id rather see Cloud x ME :) lol!

its crazy this thread is going :) im glad no one's really dished out some offensive stuff

Lionx

03-06-2005, 12:52 AM

Thats just cuz none of us are immature....most of the time....so who wants to see what happens when i put a frag grenade instead of a cherry in the toilet? :)

Never said all gays are closeted, i just meant that alot of them probably are. I mean with gay being used as a bad term by young people it does create a pressure of some sort...and kids are very cruel somtimes =/

Cloud x Nanaki

...:x

Luthien Rogue

03-06-2005, 03:36 PM

Mario and Luigi, the first gay video game couple. :D And now that Nintendo and Square are working together again, maybe, just maybe, Nintendo will have some influence on Square. ;)

I would love to see a gay main character, as long as they don't make them act like Mukki or anything. :\ Something that they don't rub in your face. You know what I mean? No stereotypes or anything...

Memorylight

03-06-2005, 05:24 PM

Didn't you see the "Group Room" scene in the Sector 5(?) slums? And one of the 4 date scenes too..

Oh yeah, you're right....
Damn....
But I still think he was in love with Aeris....
:rolleyes2

nihowma buffet

03-07-2005, 02:14 AM

nah, he was in love with rufus.

Miriel

03-07-2005, 03:10 AM

My Galka character on FFXI gets verbally abused all the time. His name may be PrettyinPink, but there's no need for people to call him derogatory names. :(

The lack of maturity when it comes to anything related to homosexuality is astounding given that the majority of players on FFXI are 16+. I don't believe that the general audience for Final Fantasy is ready for a gay main character. Maybe in another 20 years.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

03-07-2005, 03:34 AM

Just in time for FFXXIV.

Raistlin

03-07-2005, 04:38 AM

Square wouldn't do it, because then they'd lose a big chunk of their audience in the US, as a good chunk of American males are right-wing bigots who protest that gay marriage should be prohibited. Square wouldn't want to lose the money.

Personally, I wouldn't mind. Hell, some of the coolest Suikoden characters are so gay it almost physically hurts to look at them.

Oh, and Cloud was definitely gay. Or at least "unsure." Or maybe he was just an idiot.

DJZen

03-07-2005, 05:51 AM

Oh it's not so much that they protest gay marriage as it is them protesting Matthew Sheppard's funeral. THAT'S really the demographic to watch out for. I'm sure they'd be all up in arms. Next thing you know Final Fantasy become the first video game to be burned en masse, just like The Beatles burnings.

zimmunky

03-07-2005, 05:50 PM

isnt Vaan gay? im not saying this to be rude or anything, i just thought he was. There was some desktop on the official site where he was laying out and stuff. thats where my suspesion came in. anyway, NOTHING WRONG WITH GAY PEOPLE! if you dont like gay people then go kill yourself cause you suck. peace. got class.

Destai

03-07-2005, 06:31 PM

There have been gay characters in more mature games like Metal Gear Solid etc. and girly men have always been absaloutely loved in so many games and animes.

soulICE

03-07-2005, 07:11 PM

as long as theres no lip locking tongue hockey sessions, (homosexual or heterosexual) its fine by me. personally, the romance factor isnt the top reason i play FF's.. its the kicking ass with a large sword bit.

dont get me wrong, i have nothing against a person's sexual preference (its their own life after all). heck, im glad my state supports marriage for all (go MA!). as long as there isnt a sappy cheesy almost nauseatingly nonexistant puppy love story like FF8 again. The romance should remain as a sub-plot along with character development and not as a top plot next to saving the world. there were times in 8 and 10 where i had to turn away cause it was just too.. lame, is that the word? yes.

i think having diverse characters would be a welcome sight, instead of the usual:

1. straight hot white male lead with issues
2. straight hot thin white female in love with straight white male who needs rescuing
3. older gruff talking man named cid (ok, so 8's cid was more of a robin williams)
4. (insert non-human char. here)

*i hope i havent offended anyone. it wasnt my intention.

Memorylight

03-07-2005, 07:32 PM

nah, he was in love with rufus.

They would make a pretty couple.... :p

Alice

03-07-2005, 10:04 PM

zimmunky! I thought that too thats what inspired me to bring this topic up lol!

Flamethrower

03-07-2005, 10:50 PM

Oh, and Cloud was definitely gay. Or at least "unsure." Or maybe he was just an idiot.

That one.

Also, why does the gay character have to be the main character? Why not just have a gay playable character who's not the main one but very important to the plot nevertheless. That would be the best first step to make, then later on consider a gay main character.

Destai

03-07-2005, 11:17 PM

There probably already is one. Kuja is seen by most as gay. Just because the character description doesnt outright state hes a homosexual doesnt mean he isnt. Since when do games comment on characters sexuality? People are just assuming unless its commented on the character is straight.

Flamethrower

03-07-2005, 11:30 PM

He's not a playable character though. Final Fantasy has had more than a few feminine villains - Kuja, Seymour, and Kefka comes to mind. I can see all of them as gay. However, there hasn't been a playable character that's openly gay. I think that's where they should start. I doubt anyone won't buy a game just because one playable character is gay, just like I'm sure no one didn't buy Street Fighter Alpha 3 because of Eagle. However, if Ryu and Ken were announced as gay, I'd bet more than a few fans would stop playing.

DJZen

03-08-2005, 02:49 AM

Eagle wasn't in SFA3, he was in SF1 as an non-playable character and Capcom vs. SNK 2 as one of the standard characters. Wait... He mighta been in SFA3U.... I never got any of the secret characters in that game though, I played it like twice before I gave it to my brother in law... AND HE NEVER GAVE IT BACK!!!!! :(

How is Kefka feminine? I always thought of him as more excentric and psychotic. I'd come up with an example of a similar character type in a movie but I'm blanking...

....Anyone who says Dr. Frankenfurter gets smacked....

Destai

03-08-2005, 04:28 PM

However, there hasn't been a playable character that's openly gay.
Like I said, openly gay doesnt mean shouting you're sexuality from the rooftops. Cloud was thrown into several gay situations and ignored several beautiful woman throughout the game. He could be easily called a bisexual. He got further with men than he did with Tifa or Aeris. So there you have it I guess.

wuglendei

03-09-2005, 10:42 PM

I have nothign against gays. But having the main char what be odd. Because i always felt that the main char reflected off the player.....the actions of that char and everything. Thus making the main char gay would be making me kinda uhhh i donno feel weird. BUT the char was jus somone in my party or somthing i would be totally fine. Cuz i feel as if them chars are for me to interact with and to learn about. I would find it VERY intresting!

Destai

03-09-2005, 10:45 PM

You manage to reflect both Squall and Tidus?

kikimm

03-09-2005, 11:51 PM

You manage to reflect both Squall and Tidus?

It wasn't that hard for me to do. :)

:D

Alice

03-10-2005, 05:32 AM

what about female players, i doubt they felt the same as squall... maybe yuna.. but having females as th main characters was a big enuf deal!

DJZen

03-10-2005, 10:00 PM

I forgot to mention, playing as a gay character makes you gay. It's true. The gamma rays emitted from your TV will turn your chromosomes into homosomes. It's all part of our agenda to destroy the family, you see.

Just something to think about before you pop in that disc.

Destai

03-10-2005, 10:09 PM

:shifty:

DocFrance

03-10-2005, 11:15 PM

Flamethrower

03-10-2005, 11:38 PM

Eagle wasn't in SFA3, he was in SF1 as an non-playable character and Capcom vs. SNK 2 as one of the standard characters.

Right. I think I got Eagle confused with Birdie.

How is Kefka feminine? I always thought of him as more excentric and psychotic. I'd come up with an example of a similar character type in a movie but I'm blanking...

Not nearly as feminine as Kuja and Seymour, but I thought some of the stuff he said was a bit fruity, such as "AHEM! There is sand in my boots!". OK, I wouldn't really classify him as a feminine villain, but I needed another villain as an example. :p

Like I said, openly gay doesnt mean shouting you're sexuality from the rooftops. Cloud was thrown into several gay situations and ignored several beautiful woman throughout the game. He could be easily called a bisexual. He got further with men than he did with Tifa or Aeris. So there you have it I guess.

You're missing my point. I am saying that there has never officially been a gay character. You can spectulate all you want about Cloud, but to the majority of fans, he's straight. I'm sure if you asked Square-Enix themselves, they would tell you he's straight. What I am saying is why not add a character to the game that is announced gay either in the game or by Square-Enix? No harm in it.

Destai

03-11-2005, 04:13 PM

Because a characters sexuality doesnt effect the game? Doing so would just be pure advertisement. Theres never officially been a straight character either. Maybe Square just dont want the gay or straight fans to be left out :p ?

Squall of SeeD

03-11-2005, 05:56 PM

If Yang is black, then so is General Leo.

General Leo is white as can be.

Leo is black, though. Compare his skin tone to Locke's or Celes':

Leo 1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Leo.jpg).
Leo 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Leo2.jpg).
Celes (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Celes5.jpg).
Locke (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Locke3.jpg).

Leo's skin is darker than Yang's, though: Yang (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Yang.gif). Yang appears to have been given more of an Asian look than the rest of the characters in IV, whereas Leo in VI obviously has much darker skin than the rest of the characters. Amano tends to give even his Males pale skin and when he doesn't do so, it's usually a safe assumption that its intended to convey that they aren't "white" or whatever the commonplace skintone in the game might be.

There probably already is one. Kuja is seen by most as gay. Just because the character description doesnt outright state hes a homosexual doesnt mean he isnt.

Negative evidence doesn't work more for one side or the other in regard to something like this. Characters like Kuja or Kefka never show any signs of even having sexuality (Kuja calling Garnet pretty doesn't really convey anything necessarily, as he was using a descrpitive aspect of her to trigger the Treno Auctioneer's memory), mustless prefering one gender or the other, unlike even Yuffie who will kiss Cloud on his cheek if she's his date during the date in the Gold Saucer, implying that -- at the least -- she had an interest in at least one Male.

Destai

03-11-2005, 06:37 PM

In your response to my post Im not sure I follow what you're pointing out. Kuja was just a random example. I was talking about characters in general when I said
Just because the character description doesnt outright state hes a homosexual doesnt mean he isnt.What suggests a lot on Kujas sexuality is his way of dressing and even his feminine movements. Those type of things are pretty big when examining a video game character in my opinion just like Yuffies action when kissing Cloud. Surely the creators meant him to come across like this

Kawaii Ryûkishi

03-11-2005, 07:29 PM

Leo is black, though. Compare his skin tone to Locke's or Celes':

Leo 1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Leo.jpg).
Leo 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Leo2.jpg).
Celes (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Celes5.jpg).
Locke (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Locke3.jpg).I've said that I'm referring strictly to the actual in-game sprites. It's like Tina's hair color. If you asked me what it was, I might say blonde, since that's how Amano drew her, but if you asked me what color it was in the game, any answer but "green" would be wrong.

Jojee

03-11-2005, 08:05 PM

Terra, not Tina >_>

But the drawings should be more consistent with the game sprites :p It's confusing.

Squall of SeeD

03-11-2005, 08:22 PM

What suggests a lot on Kujas sexuality is his way of dressing and even his feminine movements. Those type of things are pretty big when examining a video game character in my opinion just like Yuffies action when kissing Cloud. Surely the creators meant him to come across like this

But one would have to assume that such movements or dress style are necessarily indicative of one's sexuality, which very much isn't the case. It may be that they're used for illustrating one's sexuality, but that isn't always the case. Some Males are just very feminine but very much heterosexual, and some Females are masculine, but very much heterosexual. Stereotypes aren't the best basis for making a determination of anything.

DJZen

03-11-2005, 08:34 PM

Kawaii Ryûkishi

03-11-2005, 08:54 PM

Cid loves Shera.

And, uh, Vincent.

http://norbert-x.com/rock/userfiles/Kishi/vincent-dokuhon15.jpg

Destai

03-11-2005, 09:37 PM

I stated pretty clearly video game characters and Id have to say as detailed as final fantasy in general is its not unusual for fictional game characters to be full of stereotypes. I never said anything to suggest gay men all dress feminine and my original post-
There probably already is one. Kuja is seen by most as gay. Just because the character description doesnt outright state hes a homosexual doesnt mean he isnt.-could be looked upon either way.

DocFrance

03-11-2005, 09:40 PM

Yeah, you never hear anyone accuse Cid Highwind of being gay, and why not? He certainly doesn't seem to care much for the company of women. Why can't he be gay? Is it just 'cause he's not limp wristed? If acting flamboyant is the only qualifier for gay, then I guess neither of my ex boyfriends is gay. Or me for that matter.
Well, you can't say that Cid is necessarily gay, because he's not openly homosexual. At the same time, you can't say he's necessarily straight, because he's not openly heterosexual, either. Many people generally assume he's straight, because of the whole thing with Shera. Unless it's explicitly stated (Cecil and Rosa, Zidane and Garnet, Squall and Seifer, Edgar and anything with a vagina, etc...), most characters' sexuality is open to interpretation. And that's where manga and fanfic comes in, like the utterly horrifying picture 'Kishi posted.

Squall of SeeD

03-12-2005, 05:23 AM

I stated pretty clearly video game characters and Id have to say as detailed as final fantasy in general is its not unusual for fictional game characters to be full of stereotypes. I never said anything to suggest gay men all dress feminine and my original post... could be looked upon either way.

I know that's what you meant and I wasn't suggesting that you yourself hold that view, but I was simply commenting on the comment you had put forth. Sorry if that wasn't more clear.

Destai

03-12-2005, 09:53 AM

Alright, sorry I took it the wrong way.

Big D

03-12-2005, 11:23 AM

You're missing my point. I am saying that there has never officially been a gay character. You can spectulate all you want about Cloud, but to the majority of fans, he's straight. I'm sure if you asked Square-Enix themselves, they would tell you he's straight. What I am saying is why not add a character to the game that is announced gay either in the game or by Square-Enix? No harm in it.Yet he's never officially declared heterosexual, either. They don't call him, "Cloud Strife, the heterosexual hero of FFVII..."
His sexuality is never mentioned explicitly.

I believe that Kiros Seagill from FFVIII is gay. I think he was attracted to Laguna, also. Neither of these factors are declared in the game, but there are hints. He was also a great character, if woefully under-used.

Once they start *labelling* the characters as gay or straight, the game stops being an epic fantasy and becomes a story about sexual identity. Drawing attention to one particular issue by making emphatic statements about it would undermine the point of having a gay character in the first place.

Joshkabob

03-14-2005, 03:57 AM

Honestly, I don't like gays. Sorry to offend any homos out there.

DocFrance

03-14-2005, 04:11 AM

Well, you've got every right to not like them.

Flamethrower

03-14-2005, 04:54 AM

Once they start *labelling* the characters as gay or straight, the game stops being an epic fantasy and becomes a story about sexual identity. Drawing attention to one particular issue by making emphatic statements about it would undermine the point of having a gay character in the first place.

I disagree. Having a gay character would not stop the game from being an epic fantasy, and it wouldn't overshadow the overall story. It would simply be something new and add depth to the character. Some people would blow it out of proportion and go "OMG FAGZ R GROSS ILL NEVR PLAY FF AGAN!!!", but I have enough faith in humanity for the majority of gamers to not make a big deal about. (Well, maybe not that much faith...)

Big D

03-14-2005, 08:16 AM

I disagree. Having a gay character would not stop the game from being an epic fantasy, and it wouldn't overshadow the overall story. It would simply be something new and add depth to the character. Some people would blow it out of proportion and go "OMG FAGZ R GROSS ILL NEVR PLAY FF AGAN!!!", but I have enough faith in humanity for the majority of gamers to not make a big deal about. (Well, maybe not that much faith...)I see your point; I don't think that a gay character would prevent a great epic, but it'd be an issue if they made a big deal of it - like they centred the character's identity around his or her sexuality. "The story of one man's struggle to save the world" is epic; "The story of one gay man's struggle to save the world" would look silly on a game cover. A character's sexuality is a big part of their individual identity, there's no denying that. More diversity would indeed add to the game's depth and appeal, too. But it should, I think, be handled in the way sexuality has always been handled in the FF series - as something that simply gets revealed, rather than being stated emphatically at the outset. At no point does any character in any game declare, "I'm _____ and I'm straight!" so it'd be silly to do the same with a bisexual or homosexual character. The best way for a non-heterosexual character to be accepted is for their sexuality to be treated in exactly the same way as any other.
Just my opinion.

Pesonally, I think it'd be good to see some gay or bi characters in games. The FF seris does some great 'love triangles' and subtle romantic tension; a mixture of sexualities would only add to the possibilities.

Defmetal

03-14-2005, 08:30 AM

Sorry to point this out but in the original version of Final Fantasy 7 Sephiroth was gay... so was Barret.

DocFrance

03-14-2005, 02:16 PM

I'd like to point out that this is one of the very rare occasions that I will ever completely agree with Big D.

Alice

03-14-2005, 03:48 PM

I think BigD summed it up perfectly as to what would be an appropriate way to go about it

DocFrance

03-14-2005, 04:44 PM

A homosexual main character will work well only when homosexuality becomes a non-issue. Until then, it would just be perceived as a Will-and-Grace-esque carnival freak-show (Everybody, step right up! Marvel at the horror of the bizarre HOMOR!).

Excelsior

03-15-2005, 02:00 AM

Alice

03-15-2005, 11:04 PM

i have now dubbed excelsior the biggot of 2005 :P

Destai

03-15-2005, 11:08 PM

Stupid people shouldnt get opinions.

Cless

03-15-2005, 11:35 PM

Stupid people shouldnt get opinions.
I disagree. People percieved as stupid have just as much right to their opinions as Albert Einstein himself.

Destai

03-15-2005, 11:37 PM

Im not serious.

Cless

03-15-2005, 11:42 PM

Oh, in that case, I'm sorry. I just didn't see any signs that would have indicated so. My mistake! :D

Necronopticous

03-15-2005, 11:42 PM

Pesonally, I think it'd be good to see some gay or bi characters in games. The FF seris does some great 'love triangles' and subtle romantic tension; a mixture of sexualities would only add to the possibilities.My thoughts exactly.

And General Leo was black.

Destai

03-15-2005, 11:43 PM

Oh, in that case, I'm sorry. I just didn't see any signs that would have indicated so. My mistake! :DNo offense taken. just wasnt impressed by excelsiors post built on the grounds of "gays are icky".

Fuzakeru

03-16-2005, 01:08 AM

Be it a man or woman, I'd love to play a game were the main character was homosexual. I wouldn't buy the game or not buy the game because of that factor but if it happened to be in a game that I played I'd enjoy it.

As far as the perception of women being together is okay and two men being together isn't . . . pffft. That's just stupid; mostly because of stupid sayings like, "Two women together is sensual and two men are just hairy and awkward."

Lord Xehanort

03-16-2005, 01:41 AM

having a gay main character would be horrible! mostly because i honestly dont like gay people. it would totally ruin the story, and be very gross, especially if there was another gay person and there was icky man-relationships in the actual game.

And there's the epoch of western civilization! I can't believe how much how much we've evolved from neanderthals! [/EXTREME SARCASM]

If you don't like gays, you should have a reason other than 'they're gross!'. Or you could just be mature and admit that you're just insecure about your own sexual orientation...

Excelsior

03-16-2005, 03:24 AM

Flamethrower

03-16-2005, 03:30 AM

Just wondering, would you not buy a game if it featured a gay character?

And General Leo is so not black. WTF

Big D

03-16-2005, 03:33 AM

If you disagree with someone's opinions, you are free to say so. You are also free to state your reasons for disagreeing. However, please refrain from making comments that could be seen as personal attacks:)

If you feel that someone has posted something that breaches the forum's rules, please feel free to use the 'warn' button to inform the staff about the matter:)

Alice

03-16-2005, 04:30 AM

hey, ill admit that i am a bigot, and its probably definately wrong to not like gay people, but to me, if ur gay its like the same gross factor as if someone came up to me and told me he likes to take a dump and then eat said dump. same thing. (in my opinion of whats gross and not gross)

I really hope someday youll learn that its not about the sex... like your so called "poopies" game... its about the love two people share... If your not mature enuf to understand that than i must say you probably shouldnt be playing a game with such depth because it contadicts the shallowness that is you...

of course... this is just my belief

Defmetal

03-16-2005, 05:37 AM

It's one thing to have a gay person.

It's another if its a hollywood gay person.

Lemme explain the difference.
Most gay people (no not all) are insecure with their lives, tend to be suicidal and are gay usually because of something in early childhood. The "born gay" is 100% total bs. Usually it happens because of reversed parental roles or abusive parents. They can act normal and you wouldn't even know they were gay in most cases.

Hollywood gay - Will and Grace. The girl voice from a man, the hitting on other guys left and right, acting like a girl and stuff. This is why people hate gay people because of how hollywood makes them look, like creeps. Overly aparent that they are gay.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

03-16-2005, 05:48 AM

Most gay people (no not all) are insecure with their lives, tend to be suicidal and are gay usually because of something in early childhood. The "born gay" is 100% total bs. Usually it happens because of reversed parental roles or abusive parents. They can act normal and you wouldn't even know they were gay in most cases.Comedy.

Alice

03-16-2005, 06:07 AM

The "born gay" is 100% total bs

OMG its been scientifically proven that MEN are born homosexual... there is a specific gene that determines that, though they dont find it in women.. get ur facts straight! DONT post crap if you really dont know what ur talking about. (though im sure there are a few cases like the ones u mentioned but more often than not 90% of the time they a born that way)

Most gay people (no not all) are insecure with their lives, tend to be suicidal and you would know this because you happen to know atleast 51% of the gay population?

I think that JAPANs idea of homosexuality is a bit different than our as americans or etc... so i highly HIGHLY doubt theyd pull the holly-cliche.

DJZen

03-16-2005, 06:15 AM

*eyeroll*

So where's this statistical evidence of gays being suicidal that you're basing your entire argument on? No seriously, I'd like to see it so I can laugh at it and then show all my friends so they too can laugh at it.

Also, by your reasoning of what turns a person gay, I'd be 100% straight. My dad is a very manly guy, and my mother is a domestic housewife. Neither of them ever hit me particularly or had a rigid sense of discipline. Things were very chill at my house. Yet somehow I turned out to be a homo. I was never raped, I never got mentally scarred for life by anything (and I even burned off bits of myself by spilling the BBQ grill on myself!), there was no lack of paternal influence, I never really knew any gay people until I was 15, and I never EVER liked musicals. Yet somehow I turned out gay.

I'm not suicidal, if anything death scares me. I've been getting more and more secure with myself ever since that whole "awkward teenage years" thing finally ended, and I don't hate myself.

Yet for some strange reason I'm still a big ol' gay.

Everybody, step right up! Marvel at the horror of the bizarre HOMOR!

XD pure genius, man

DocFrance

03-16-2005, 06:30 AM

I agree with the "real vs. Hollywood" thing. Hollywood tends to portray gays as flamboyant and limp-wristed (for men) or butch and manly (for women). I know only a few homosexual friends, and they're - get this - normal people, with the exception that they have different preferences. Huh, go figure.

Like I've said again and again, I believe that the gaming industry would take the distasteful Hollywood view on homosexuality. I don't think FF7 would be as good of a game if Cloud talked with a lisp and called everyone "thweetie."

Actually, that would be pretty funny...

Miriel

03-16-2005, 07:11 AM

OMG its been scientifically proven that MEN are born homosexual... there is a specific gene that determines that, though they dont find it in women.. get ur facts straight! DONT post crap if you really dont know what ur talking about. (though im sure there are a few cases like the ones u mentioned but more often than not 90% of the time they a born that way)

There is no research that proves the existence of a "gay gene" and no scientific evidence that suggests that certain men are born to be homosexuals.

Oh the irony...

Defmetal

03-16-2005, 07:47 AM

Statistics can prove that gays are like normal people, and so far every gay I have ever met has had a negative outlook on life and tended to need therapy. I'd say 100% out of 100% would be a good statistic.

Science to this day has absolutely not found a gene that makes you gay.
This was something someone in the media said along the lines of "I was just born this way" which led to a research team trying to prove that you can be born to like men.

Alice

03-16-2005, 08:21 AM

except...

there is a group of christians that search for this gene and if they find it in ur baby, than they abort it... obviously they have some scientific background and have some IDEA (as they are scientists who check) of what could cause a child to be gay. I dont think people would have abortions (specifically when they tend to be against them) unless they KNEW that this gene existed..

Ive also read in several reputable news articles through TIME, XY, OUT, and ADVOCATE, that there is a specific genetic difference found in the brain to where a chemical is there that isnt there in straight men.. this only applies to men hence why they believe it may not be true but... IT IS for men...

And like i said before.. japan and squaresoft are not hollywood... they wouldnt create a character thats so flamboyant. Most japanese tv shows/anime portray gay men in many different angles.. so dont expect squaresoft to go all hollywood.

I'd say 100% out of 100% would be a good statistic
unfortunetly defmetal you really dont know that and you cant say that, thats your perspective on their outlook. to say that is to generalize... maybe you just hang out with a negative crowd...? you think that might be it?

udsuna

03-16-2005, 02:46 PM

What's with all these threads on homosexuality? I'm tempted to just put "actively bisexual, FYI" in my signature. I'm also a psychologist, thank you very much, and it's quite likely that I have more knowlege, both personal and academic, than anyone else here.

Anyways, to cover this as best as I can:

1. Homosexuality is in NO WAY linked to any known biological trait. None at all. No evidence of it exists at all. All reports to the contrary can, and have, been completely discredited by real scientists. It's actually less predictable than whether you'll be left or right handed. Identical twins, if one of them is gay, chances are the other will not be. Whereas both will favor the same hand, as well as most other traits.

2. Most homosexuals don't act any different than normal people. In fact, the gay/bi communities that I'm familiar with (Illinios, just a little south of Chicago) have an open contempt for what they call "flamers". I can't tell you what it's like elsewhere, though, I don't keep up with the current trends... any current trends.

3. Homosexuality has nothing to do with mental disease or responce to abuse. Although, it is true that some disorders mimic homosexuality. Such things as what the general populace likes to call "nymphomania". This has nothing to do with sexual preferences, or what a person might naturally be like, this is PURELY emotional damage.

4. Statistically speaking, about 1 in 20 people are homo/bi sexual. Regardless of race, gender, or background. Rich, poor, it doesn't matter. Genetics don't matter. You can't even differentiate strait from gay using CAT scans and blood-chemistry tests. Although you can use something known as "arousal responce tests"- which studies sex drives, using sexual photo/movie materials (porn) and some sensors.

Those are the four major truths you should know. Anything that contradicts the first is complete crap. Without any real scientific accuracy. All the "gay is biological" or "gay is psychological" garbage is just that, garbage. Made up by stupid people who need to feel justified in hating homosexuals. Back a few decades, studies exactly like them "proved" that blacks were mentally inferior to whites, because their brains were less evolved... or similar bull.

Granted, the second is purely my own experience, and it might be different in other parts of the country and the world as a whole. And since most behaviors are more socially structured (many people who "act gay" believe that they're supposed to behave that way because they're gay. Just as strait men and women are taught to act certain ways. Ways that differ from place to place)

The third is a compilation of experience and scientific studies, in most cases, there is no way to tell a person's sexual patterns based upon any fair psych testing (if you don't ask "are you attracted to the same sex?"- you'll never know.)

As for the study of the last, it might be partially incorrect. Statistical studies aren't completely trustable under these circumstances. In some areas, it comes to 1 in 10 (and some are likely lying). In other areas, it drops to 1 in 50 (and some are very likely lying). No way to be 100% certain on that.

Oh, and if I have to chose to rely on TIME or the American Journal of Medicine (where much of this stuff comes from)... I'm sorry, I know what I trust more. And, seriously, identical twins may have 1 strait and 1 gay (regardless of male or female).

Squall of SeeD

03-16-2005, 04:34 PM

It pleases me to see a kick ass Post like yours, udsuna.

To defmetal: I just would like to add that if such preferences were a result of abuse and such as you put it, then what's your explanation for these marine animals and arctic birds?:

Linkage 1 (http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/marine-gay.html).
Linkage 2 (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1284769.html?menu=news.quirkies.animaltales).

These are things occurring naturally. While you may argue that things could work differently for Homo Sapiens and these animals, these Male animals also -- in all likelihood -- didn't have the absence of their own societies' traditional Male role in their young lives (especially the Seals and Dolphins, as their social hierarchies have a single Male dominating the rest of the group; in the case of Seals, this one Male might have a harem of 100 Females) and weren't dressed up in make up and dresses by their mothers.

Your argument is flawed for various reasons, notably that you offer no support for your claim concerning the statistics you presented, nor any evidence that if Homosexual folks do have a tendency to be suicidal that it would be a result of being Homosexual itself rather than a result of ridicule or a state of anomy.

udsuna

03-16-2005, 05:03 PM

Many thanks to you, sir.

Yeah, but even I have to admit that it's kind of depressing to keep falling for guys who happen to be strait :(. I'm sure that if a stait guy went through a dozen crushes without a single one of them having a remote interest in him, it'd start getting a little sad.

To quote Shakespear: "If you prick us, do we not bleed?"

Homosexuals are as vulnerable to emotional pain as anyone else. And, due to their lifestyle, gays are more likely to encounter said tragedy. (I don't include myself- bi comes with some advantages that make us a little less prone to such heartbreaks- sometimes the grass really IS greener on the other side of the fence)

Madonna

03-16-2005, 05:38 PM

I'm a big fan of saying, "Hey, a gay character would be cool," or "No, keep it hetero, please. I want to fantasize that I'm Tidus kissing Yuna."

I think it'd be just as cool if they had heterosexual person or a homosexual person. Their more recent FF main protagonists seem to be more adrongynous, though.

P.S. - CidxVincent = very very funny. <3

DocFrance

03-16-2005, 06:19 PM

"I'm a simple man, Marge. I like my beer cold and my homosexuals flaming." ~Homer Simpson

Alice

03-16-2005, 07:00 PM

udsuna

03-16-2005, 07:30 PM

Thank you Udsuna for clearing that up with me...

You should write a letter to crazy people who abort babies because they believe they found out that there child will be gay.. I suppose I dont know whats going on ... but there had to be some research done to find that conclusion dont u agree? i mean people dont make that stuff up just to kill babies...

Well anyways for now ill agree with you.. but as far as i know ive liked guys my entire life!

To be honest, I didn't realize people DID stuff like that in industrialized nations :(. And, yes, there ARE people who would make somthing like that up... probably confused girls who don't want a baby and can't have an abortion because of religion. So, excuses, excuses. Besides, they wouldn't believe ME, I'm only a well-educated psychologist, not a toothless hick priest. Plus, I'm bisexual, so... maybe my opinion isn't entirely unbiased ;)

As for "research"... well... there's some pretty popular "research" in africa right now that states you can cure AIDS by having unprotected sex with virgins. So, a great many HIV infected men are going out and raping young girls... Do NOT trust "research" until you make damned sure where the sources are and what the agendas are.

But, listening to christian fundamentalist research on homosexuality is like listening to the tobacco companies' research on cigarettes. At best it's a bad plan.

DJZen

03-16-2005, 08:05 PM

TOTAL PWNAGE

OOOOOOOH! BURN!!

There's this crunchy granola type college course being offered at various hippy-dippy schools that has something to do with gay quantum mechanics or something like that. It's essentially a system of using math to prove that there's no such thing as normalcy, so you can't have "abnormal", meaning gays aren't bad. Personally I think it's garbage as I see no need to justify my own existance. I am who I am and that's alright by me.

The interesting thing about this course is that it talks about the faux acceptance of gays brought on by shows like Queer Eye, Will & Grace and Queer As Folk. What it boils down to is people feeling okay about gays as long as they're "not like us". That's the part that fascinates me. I always thought that Queer Eye had a minstrel-esque quality to it. It's as if the producers had the idea of making a show that's about nothing but amusing people with "gay" antics.

It's all about putting up barriers. Pointing out (and even INVENTING) differences just puts people in a tribal mentality. Makes people break down humanity into categories, into stereotypes which never dervate from the archetype. In this way a person ceases being a person and starts being a _____-person. Instead of a person, he's a BLACK guy or a WHITE guy or a GAY guy or a RICH guy. The adjective supercedes the noun.

Once gays and straights stop thinking we're so different (and really, we're about as different as people who like orange juice with pulp and without pulp), we'll be better off. Until then, it's probably best that game companies not try to include more gay characters.

Alice

03-16-2005, 09:16 PM

I really disagree with you on that one DJZen, times have changed and although idealistically we wouldnt want labels.. i find them completely necesary and irreversible.. and theres nothing anyoen can do about it. You will have to accept the labels people give because believe it or not u even use them too. It engrained in human society.

Im thinkin this topic is just about dead soon

udsuna

03-16-2005, 09:30 PM

Yeah, it probably will have to die soon. Que sera, sera.

As for labels, I think we need them, but I don't think we should divide people and concepts BASED upon them. One day, strait and gay will just be the difference between brunette and redhead. Nothing more than a word to sort a concept. As opposed to these poorly defined and pathetically biased crap. I've got my own label. 'Phobe (it's my slur against homophobes)... I like it, I want people to use it.

-N-

03-16-2005, 10:46 PM

Pointing out that he was gay would be too much sexual reference than just falling in love and fact is society isnt tolerant enough yet. Working on it. Besides FFVII did the whole homosexual thing very well in my opinion.

This is a little off the current topic, but I saw this quote earlier and I was wondering where in FFVII these overtones were, because I play that game religiously and I don't think I picked up on any of those hints, unless you're talking about Cloud/Barret dating or taking Cid in the gondola.

Destai

03-16-2005, 11:33 PM

In Walmart when you're looking for supplies to get picked by corneo in the honey bee inn Cloud gets in a hot tub with a group of muscle men assuming you choose the group room.

Lord Xehanort

03-16-2005, 11:48 PM

Destai

03-16-2005, 11:54 PM

Are you responding to me?

MecaKane

03-17-2005, 12:02 AM

Lord Xehanort

03-17-2005, 12:03 AM

No, I'm just responding to the discussion in general.

ShunNakamura

03-17-2005, 12:47 AM

Sexual orientation while not completely driven by genetics has shown some connections with genetics, mainly that many homosexuals use thier brain differently the thier straight conterparts. Also there are some signs that the brain in homosexuals develops deverently then in heterosexuals.

That is paraphrased from my college Pyscology course as well as from the book. The book lead to believe that while these differences are present they aren't a guarentined diagnosis.

Basically like many mental illnesses homosexuality appears to have multiple causes.. .some that can be followed to genetics, some to psycological effects, and others to social and parental involvement. Many disorders have that ... no actually cause but many things that lead up to it.

And Sexuality in no less complex then a mental illness.

As a disclaimer I will mention that the book isn't brand new so perhaps the information in it has been proven false... but it seems unlikely since the teacher did not mention, nor have I seen anything concrete about it.

Alice

03-17-2005, 03:05 AM

im pretty flamboyant myself... ansem i totally get it... if it makes you feel good.. do it!

DJZen

03-17-2005, 03:28 AM

So... are some of you saying that people who act flamboyant are a bad thing? I act pretty flamboyant and always have. I don't lisp or anything, but I don't hide my sexuality. I openly flirt with guys, I wear a feather-esque boa on a daily basis, I skip, sing, or anything else I feel like doing whenever I like as long as I'm not hurting anyone. I don't do it just to be a stereotypical gay, I just do what I like to do and I don't care what anyone says, that's not changing.

Also, why is everyone making a big deal out of gays? It's segregation of the 1940's-1960's USA all over again. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT YET WE ARE ALL EQUAL! Here comes the clue train, next stop, you! Get over it!

It's not bad in and of itself. It's just... what's the word I'm looking for here? It invites mockery. If you're fine with that, that's cool, but to me a gay man acting flamboyant is like black people buying spinning rims, white rich kids talking about how much they hate their parents, and fangirls talking about how "hawwwwwwt <3<3<3<3<3" Cloud is. Go ahead and do it, just don't be shocked if you get scoffed at.

We absolutely are all different yet equal, but unfortunately, as much as has changed, some things haven't. Racism, sexism, and discrimination of all varieties still exist. Their only enablers are these fake walls we keep building to divide ourselves. THAT is what I have a problem with. I've had very flamboyant friends who are tons of fun to hang around. That's not what bugs me. What bugs me is when people cling to these barricades as their identity. Labels? Sure, we all use 'em. It's when people BECOME these labels that it causes harm. Unfortunately I see far too much labelling and far too many people who are more than willing to become those labels.

udsuna

03-17-2005, 04:07 AM

I'll just lay down some ground lines, again... homosexuality is NOT a mental disease. Or, if it is, it behaves unlike any other disorder ever recorded in the communal history of the psychological and psychiatric disciplines. Homosexuality isn't even like other sexual deviations, which have clear causes and obvious symptioms.

Nor is it caused by any known form of psychological condition, although certain disorders exist that can emulate/induce behaviors that could be called homosexual. Sexual abuse not least of the examples.

No known chemical, biological, genetic, or anatomical conditions appear to have any relationship to homosexuality. If being gay is a genetic condition, it's one that strait people also possess. The only known way to make a person no longer gay is either chemical or physical castration- which shuts down the entire sex drive. Doesn't matter WHAT your sexual preferences are, when you cross that bridge.

There are no biological traits that all homosexuals possess, yet aren't a part of the human overall genome. Yes, you can find gays that have any given abnormality you want to name, you can also find many gays who don't, and plenty of heterosexuals who also have whichever abnormality you want to name. All within statistically insignificant differences.

Every up-to-date, reliable, study of homosexuality has come to one conclusion: whatever determines our sexual preferences is entirely unknown. You can no more determine why someone is gay than you can determine why someone likes brunettes more than redheads. On occasions, the answer actually is obvious, but most often, it's not even close. Coupled with the fact that people can actually change their minds, or have them changed by powerful emotional events.

Even the studies by groups that are intent to find a cure for being homosexuality (yes, they exist, and some are ethical). They are trying to discover the cause, so that they might be able to reverse or prevent it. Whatever you might say about them, you do have to acknowlege that when THEY say "umm... we have no freakin' clue what the hell is wrong with gays that makes them the way they are", it means they honestly don't know.

Ultimately, no ethical, impartial, and educated member of the clinical and research communities would acknowlege any known cause of any "normal" sexual preferences. Including hetero/homo/bi, and most forms of basic fetishes such as favorite races or colors or even scents. And yes, the sence of smell is a very real erotic influence.

Abnormal sexualities are different, as predictable and diagnosable (if not as easily treated) as any other mental disease. And include nymphomaniacs, child molesters, serial rapists, and a few others that are too disturbing to mention. Some are incurable without a method of castration, but all are the result of some kind of abuse.

Oh, and I never said flamboyance is necessarily a "bad" thing. Just that most of the normal people in the gay communities consider them to be jokes. Worthy, mostly, of contempt. Same way that most people feel about braggarts and narcissists. Just an extension of that image. But, this is a different subject entirely, a matter of pure opinion, and should be treated as such.

Excelsior

03-17-2005, 04:31 AM

wait ansem u openly flirt with guys?! umm..u might wanna be more careful about who u flirt with, cuz i mean, gay people get killed for that. like that guy who got tied to a fence and burned to death, and then stupid christian extremists (as a christian, let me say that real christians are NOTHING like these extremists) came to his funeral with signs saying hes burning in hell. and i may think gay people are kinda gross, but i certainly dont hate gay people, and that was pretty messed up.

Kawaii Ryûkishi

03-17-2005, 04:38 AM

That makes as much sense as, well, this.

wait susan u openly flirt with guys?! umm..u might wanna be more careful about who u flirt with, cuz i mean, women get killed for that. like that woman who got raped and killed, and then stupid christian extremists said it happened becuz she didnt believe in god enough.

Excelsior

03-17-2005, 04:53 AM

yeah but the difference is theres probably alot mroe guys that hate gay people then there are rapists. now, whether or not those said guys would take it to the extreme and then do something like that, i dont know. and even if they wouldnt go so far as say, lighting him on fire, it seems like eventually someone would like hit him or something. and besides, i was just trying to give advice anyway.

and i didnt mean stop flirting with guys, im just saying u should probably try to be careful (if u just go up to any guy and start hitting on him)

-N-

03-17-2005, 05:10 AM

In Walmart when you're looking for supplies to get picked by corneo in the honey bee inn Cloud gets in a hot tub with a group of muscle men assuming you choose the group room.
Oh yeah, that part. Yeah, I guess so. Heh, Walmart.

Alice

03-17-2005, 05:24 AM

Oh, and I never said flamboyance is necessarily a "bad" thing. Just that most of the normal people in the gay communities consider them to be jokes. Worthy, mostly, of contempt. Same way that most people feel about braggarts and narcissists. Just an extension of that image. But, this is a different subject entirely, a matter of pure opinion, and should be treated as such.

a few flaws in that paragraph...
Just that most of the normal people in the gay communities consider them to be jokes.

what the hell is normal.. who r u to say what constituted normalcy in a community u dont belong to eh>? not to mention, how do you know what people thing in majority..? people never consider me a joke or worthy of contempt.. all i find amongt my gay peers and community is love and support..

this is getting way beyong the gay main character ideal and more into something that is more debatable and i beg for people to stop posting on this now because it really has lost alot of its original purpose.. it has turned into more of a grounds for people to dispel beliefs and rants about things that dont relate to the subject at hand ...

Edit by Kishi: Don't double-post.

Lord Xehanort

03-17-2005, 11:35 PM

Sorry Alice, it got a little out of hand.

So, as it has been said, a gay main character would have little bearing on the game's quality, far less than the storyline and overall character development. If it were done tastefully, it could add an entirely new level of characters never before seen in RPGs and even make the character development better.

Agreed?

ShunNakamura

03-18-2005, 01:36 AM

Aggreed :up:

Shinra

03-19-2005, 08:36 PM

Personally it wouldn't bother me, I think it would be an intersting idea. Of course there would be accusations of yaoi and religions such as Roman Catholics would out cry (trust me you'd get some Women's Christian group protesting :P). Although the idea that people follow a religion in the game when you summon creatures (some demon-ish) never seemed to bother them.

However, if it was tastefully done I can see no problem. (I mean they don't wear pink dungarees and say things like "speak to the elbow you're not worth the extension :P)

Del Murder

03-20-2005, 07:53 AM

Also, why is everyone making a big deal out of gays? It's segregation of the 1940's-1960's USA all over again. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT YET WE ARE ALL EQUAL! Here comes the clue train, next stop, you! Get over it!
A lot of gay people are just as responsible for making a big deal out of it as heterosexuals. It is of my opinion that the 'we're here, we're queer, get used to it' approach is not the best way to integrate. But I agree with your statement, except for that clue train nonsense. :)

Whoops, we're back on topic. Uh, I agree with D.

Blackmageboi

03-20-2005, 12:22 PM

im no homophobe so i dont care it would just be wierd

Gnostic Yevon

04-02-2005, 03:42 AM

In Walmart when you're looking for supplies to get picked by corneo in the honey bee inn Cloud gets in a hot tub with a group of muscle men assuming you choose the group room.

Remind me never to go to Wal-Marts in your area :eek:

anyway

I wouldn't mind seeing a gay charecter in an RPG, so long as it wasn't done as a joke. The only problem I can see, is that in the US anyway, a game that treats gayness as normal would be revilled in the red sates and would likely attract an M rating. I can just imagine that afterward, any game from that company would be treated as suspect by many devoutly religious people. I can very easily imagine that should a FF game have gay characters in it, then ten years later, the parents of some kid will throw away his copy of FF10 because it "promotes homosexuality" not that seeing Seymour will make anyone teh gay That would be my objection. Doing something like that would make the entire series so controversial that people would think the whole series is about gayness.

DJZen

04-02-2005, 07:00 PM

A lot of gay people are just as responsible for making a big deal out of it as heterosexuals. It is of my opinion that the 'we're here, we're queer, get used to it' approach is not the best way to integrate. But I agree with your statement, except for that clue train nonsense. :)

Actually, the "get used to it" part is about as segregationist as saying "I have a dream". Sure, it'll probably have about the same effect as throwing a rock at a hornet's nest, but the intention is more integrative and segregative. I will agree that gay people are just as responsible though. I can't even tell you how many obnoxious (and not at all funny) jokes are made about straight people.

Besides, we all know the REAL gross people are girls anyway ;P

Miriel

04-02-2005, 09:11 PM

Besides, we all know the REAL gross people are girls anyway ;P*smack*

I'm pretty sure that if Square ever tries the homosexual angle, they'd go with a girl crushing on another girl first. And I'd think that they'd test out the waters with a bisexual character before having a strictly homosexual one (and again, I think it'd be a bisexual girl character first).

Honestly, I don't think overt sexuality belongs in Final Fantasy games. I don't care if the characters are gay, straight, or bi, I wouldn't want to see any of them making out and going at it.

Lenna

04-05-2005, 10:59 PM

Ok didn't square put Mukki in FF7 as a gay character? I know he wasn't a main character, but do people see where I'm coming from when I think he's gay? I'm probably wrong but yeah. lol Anyways I think that putting a gay character in could also be offensive to people who are gay. As it may cause a stereotype to their kind. Therefore could possibly put a bad name to square. Does anyone agree?

Alice

04-05-2005, 11:04 PM

its not like there arent stereotypes for EVERYONE already, no one owuld be offended. its almost a ridiculous theory *pat*

Destai

04-05-2005, 11:18 PM

I dont think I could take a main character with a gay stereotype seriously. Im not sure what the word for the stereotype is called. I think its flamboyant. Its nothing against gay people. I dont take most flamboyant people seriously.

Alice

04-07-2005, 12:03 AM

thats sad destai, they r people too, they just act differently, i can tell you from my view that i occasionally am uber flamboyant, i dont mean to do anything, its not a concious thing. I dont know why people act that way but we do, and we dont do it as a joke. (unless its on tv)

Destai

04-07-2005, 12:50 AM

Alice

04-07-2005, 12:53 AM

Destai

04-07-2005, 12:59 AM

uh... happy, write flippy, lispy... theres just a certain aura about me sometimes that i do no control, its like when i record my voice, it sounds really GAY compared to what it sounds like in my head... i have no control over the way i speak or act, cuz its me.Then I shouldnt be using the word flamboyant. I dont care for accent. I cant take people seriously who attatch "like" to the end of every third word and use terms such as....
:eep: ....
"Omg! Thats is like, sooooo cute!!!"
If an FF character spoke anything remotely like that...as in selphie/rikku etc. I couldnt take them seriously.

TurkSlayer

04-23-2005, 03:04 PM

I don't think it would be a bad thing to have a homosexual character. But SquareEnix would definately get in a lot of trouble for it with the religious groups. Also, it would probably turned many fans away from the game because they're so many frickin homophobes out their that the game would immediately scare them away.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuals. They are the same as anyone else. I have several friend who are homosexual, though most of them are women. Anyway, I just wanted to say that its stupid to hate people just because they're different.

Lionx

04-23-2005, 09:35 PM

Homosexual does not mean they have to be flamboyant..-_-; You could introduce one that is NOT stereotyped to break that, because frankly seeing things like Will & Grace(is that it? dont watch sitcoms alot) with that overhyper homosexual guy really pisses you off because frankly that is not how they act.

DJZen

04-23-2005, 10:18 PM

Random fuel for the fire:

Yeah, it'd be a lot funnier if they portrayed some gay people like one of my former co-workers: overweight, dreadlocked and with lazy eye. He was one of the funniest people you could ever hope to meet. He was a lot more "Car Wash" gay than "Will & Grace" or "Queer Eye" gay.

Sphere

04-23-2005, 10:34 PM

Being homosexual does not mean one is forced to a stereotypical form of living. It does not define their personality in any way what-so-ever.

I, personally would not advise Square to create a "gay" character, simply becuase they are creating an image for their series, and that would seem pointless, and sales would decrease dramatically.

As the typical, common view of an FF game, it is seen to involve an emotional relationship between the main character and supporting character. Therefore, portraying the main character as homosexual, would not only lose millions aof fans, it would also seem to defy the traditional form of Final Fantasy.

Besides, religious groups would most likely boycot and ban the game from society (Well, part of it), and it would quickly become offensive to play such a game.

I for one, have nothing against homosexuality in any way. But I would still prefer the Final Fantasy range to stick to a more traditional form of characters.

Oh and, greetings everyone! I'm new!

Destai

04-23-2005, 10:57 PM

Welcome, That post was quite an entrance :p

Lionx

04-23-2005, 11:01 PM

Meh traditional is too old, i say we need change, in fact i prolly MUST buy it then if it was different like that @_@ Just like X-2 i had little reason to buy.

Sphere

04-23-2005, 11:06 PM

Yes, but X-2 resulted in a complete failure in expected standards of the Final Fantasy range.

I was an interesting game, yet it was hardly an RPG fans have come to expect from Square.

I enjoyed it, yet I must admit it was far from the best. Maybe even the worst.

Square took a risk, and unfortunately they suffered for it. Male players found it sexist, and female players found it too "girlish".

Lionx

04-23-2005, 11:08 PM

Well we have to innovate, and if it means taking risks every now and then go for it. I cannot stand the video game industry being the same all the time, while classics should still be here we need to move forward while preserving the same feel we have today and yesterday.

Sphere

04-24-2005, 09:07 AM

I agree with you, and your point in valid, yet classics are timeless, and if a game industry needs to take a risk, I do not advise Square to do so. Rather a less experienced industry, with less fans to please.

Why learn from your own mistakes, when you can learn from others?

Alice

04-24-2005, 09:16 AM

Eh wow this is back>? i feel the urge to get back into it again

When has square ever been traditional, pretty much they always go all out with innovation. Times are changing. I wouldnt think itd fail really, I think itd be a landmark. Besides, its fantasy, and gay men rule the fantasy world dont u know? :P

Just bein silly, its late here... >.< Sorry if i come across as dum

Sphere

04-24-2005, 09:26 AM

Hehe, I don't know about "dum", but you do come across as intriguing and original.

But, technically, society has only been open to homosexual people since the mid 1970's, and there are still many homophobic people, including religions who are against homosexuality.

I, personally, would not be a loyal fan, and I would not purchass the game, if it had a homosexual main character. Imagine how players would be ridiculed by my friends and family. They would lose countless fans, simply because of image.

Lionx

04-24-2005, 09:41 AM

Dude does it matter what your friends think? Its a game, they arent being good friends if they do so. I will take risks, because frankly i feel big companies need bigger innovation, because FF atm seems to be falling short. I say break the mold, sooner or later, things will change i bet.

Sphere

04-24-2005, 09:56 AM

Final Fantasy should create a fresh, original Final Fantasy, yet not so dramatically different that they will lose fans/consumers while attempting to do so.

If this was a hypothetical situation, and it had nothing to do with homosexuality, then I would agree. I have nothing against homosexuality, yet I still find it a mistake on Square's behalf if they create such an image to the Final Fanatsy series. Which of course, they never would. It does not simply mean a debatable issue to them, it means their whole company.

Lionx

04-24-2005, 10:02 AM

And yet violence on MK was not revolutionary enough? What about Doom? Or any FPS that had gore back in the days when games were not associated with them? Whats so different about that here? I see nothing wrong, i think it would be bold. Sorta like Zelda's Cel shading and Pikman.

Laguna

04-24-2005, 12:49 PM

I really wouldnt care if the character was gay or straight. It would actually be interesting to see if they could pull off the love aspect of the story. I mean with all the straight love stories they have a big book of cliches they can fall back on, I think they would have to work harder to present it properly.

However, I dont think this sort of game could happen. There is simpley too much prejudice and misconceptions about gay people. From a business stand point it would probably harm their sales.

I still think that it would be interesting to see though (no petty prejudice here thank you very much- love is pure right? Doesnt matter who it's between.)

ughhis

04-24-2005, 02:31 PM

It would be fun to see a homo/bisexual character in Final Fantasy, yes. Maybe they could start out with something else than the main character though? And not someone like Mukki or whoever else who they allude at homosexuality with. Someone, maybe, serious? :eek:

*smack*

I'm pretty sure that if Square ever tries the homosexual angle, they'd go with a girl crushing on another girl first. And I'd think that they'd test out the waters with a bisexual character before having a strictly homosexual one (and again, I think it'd be a bisexual girl character first).Agreed.

Honestly, I don't think overt sexuality belongs in Final Fantasy games. I don't care if the characters are gay, straight, or bi, I wouldn't want to see any of them making out and going at it.
I wouldn't mind seeing something erotic in a Final Fantasy game if they did it in a tasteful manner and it had something important to do with the plot or the characters.
And, they could have a bi/homosexual character in the games without them making out or going at it. Final Fantasy VI-X? Haven't played the others, but couldn't it be like that, except someone happened to like someone of the same sex?

Exactly, Cap. If it's a "Gay Hero" I could see it going downhill. FAST! If it's a hero who happens to be gay, on the other hand....it could work...
Exactly. :nibbles: :fpcow:

Destai

04-24-2005, 04:11 PM

I could imagine a male characcter whos close or affectionate to another male character. The character that keeps coming to mind is Chaos from Xenosaga but I dont know why. I could just picture him in that role. If I was making the game Id go out of my way to avoid the word gay or homosexual. Yeah the whole gay thing would stand out to the player so Id have a side chracter pass a small harmless comment or something but yeah the whole "coming out" ordeal would be non existant.

Sphere

04-24-2005, 05:13 PM

I could debate this issue indefinately, and my oppinion will still remain exactly the same.

Yes, it would be bold, yet it would still be idiotic to create a homosexual character, simply because many people are highly prejudice and stereotypical towards this.

I have seen various polls regarding to homosexuality, and while some people consider it ordinary and accepted, others defy it intensly, and think of it as unconventional.

Final Fantasy would lose millions of fans, that is inevitable.

It may be innovative and original, yet controversial issues would form inter-nationally, many of them protesting against Square.

Doom, and other violent games' target market, were aimed at youth, in which violence and artificial death ammuse them.

Yet, if Final Fantasy created a homosexual character, their target market would consist of homosexual, or bisexual people. Which would be suicide, considering the huge percentage more, of heterosexual people.

P.S. Lionx: It's good to see someone with oppinionated, yet maturely directed ideas. I commend you for a fair, orderly debate.

DJZen

04-24-2005, 07:04 PM

Yeah, it's always impressive to see people remain rational about their opinions.

I would like to see this:

Dude 1: Be careful... I... I'd hate to see anything happen to you, man.
Dude 2: I know. I... I also...
Chick 1: Oh jeez, get a room you two!

I wouldn't like to see this:

Dude 1: Be careful, I'm gay and I think you're hot.
Dude 2: Really? I'm ALSO gay!
Chick 1: How cool! Gayness is such a good thing! We should all wave rainbow flags to celebrate diversity!

You see, there IS such a thing as tastefully done, and there is also such a thing as overkill.

On the other hand, the running joke on the internet is that characters in Final Fantasy are gay anyway (I think this is only supposed to refer to Tidus and Zidane, POSSIBLY Squall, but that's it). "They look like they were rejected from a Final Fantasy game for being too gay, and that says something." Maybe the FF fan base is ready for it after all.

Cloud775

04-24-2005, 07:07 PM

I think there was a gay person in Musashi: Samurai Legend. I think the guy's name was Leyden. I mean, he wears two hoop earrings, he calls Musashi his prince, not to mention he wears a shirt that only cover his chest. I wonder what Square Enix was thinking. *shrugs* Maybe they wanted their game to be more interesting.

Sphere

04-24-2005, 07:15 PM

Dude 1: Be careful, I'm gay and I think you're hot.
Dude 2: Really? I'm ALSO gay!
Chick 1: How cool! Gayness is such a good thing! We should all wave rainbow flags to celebrate diversity!

LMAO! Well displayed. I completely agree. Characters could be depicted subtly as homosexual characters, yet still remain enigmatic towards their sexuality.

Creating a pure homosexual relationship in a Final Fantasy RPG game, would not seem to be a good idea. Square should rather stick to more conventional, heterosexual relationships.

Alice

04-24-2005, 08:02 PM

ahah well put DJZen, thats pretty much what I had in mind. I dont think they should focus on the "gay " thing. As a matter of fact I would suggest creating another word for being gay as to mask it... Most fantasy books I read call it different things, but its always two men who love eachother instead.

I think square is a smart enough company to know how to manage a situation and wouldnt hold conferences just to say the character is gay, though if love interest came up they could simply say he's (made up word here). and people would be like , oooh...?

Seeign as how i dont see this game being made for like till ff15+ i dont worry much, the world has plenty of time to grow as loving people :) times change everyday

Cloud775 "what were they thinking?" Ill tell you, some guy came up with characters and stories... and thats how it played out.. I dont think squaresoft ever sits down to think.. how can we get attention? I think the stories are their stories so in order for anything to happen like that it has to come from the heart and mind of the game creator...

Lionx

04-25-2005, 01:22 AM

Haha! i dont mean it that way @_@ I mean it more like subtily put. Where the game sugguests that the person is homo/bisexual, but never really says so. A bisexual would be cool because it would keep you guessing. In any case i do agree that they will lose a ton of sales, but i am sure alot of innovated games usually do end up either winning big, or losing huge. I would expect however if it was subtily and tastefully done, no one will give much a bother to it.

If not now, maybe sometime later when things are fine ^^; Not saying they HAVE to have one like this, but it would be nice and different and would certainetly be something to remember.

Odaisé Gaelach

04-25-2005, 09:29 PM

Dudes, i think it would totally rock if they actually had a gay main character (male or female). I think the fact that square(enix) has always been top of the line, and ahead of its time in everything else they might as well do it right?

What do you think>?

I just had the most horrible vision. At the end of FFIX Amarant and Zidane are clutching each other in their arms...

Mitch

05-11-2005, 07:20 AM

Do you mean Kuja?

I personally wouldn't hold any prejudice against the game if there was a gay main character. It would be an interesting twist.

But realisticly, I don't think it will happen for a while, for reasons that have already been said a thoasand times.

Mercen-X

05-11-2005, 09:39 AM

Damnit! This is a longass thread! Not because of the number of posts but because of the shear amount people are typing. Wow!!

To all who insinuate that Cloud is gay based on minor references and misunderstandings: you're dumb. Cloud is just a complete idiot. He's obsessed with Sephiroth because he destroyed his hometown, he struggles against Rufus because he knows Shinra sucks.
I've never gotten Cloud on a date with Yuffie, but I have dated Barret and there was no homosexual references in that scene at all. You're just jumping to conclusions.

As for having an outright gay male main character, here's how I see it in terms of the story:

My personal preference tends to lie somewhere in rivalry but a friendship would work well too. The main character's quest and ultimate objective takes FULL precedence over his love story. As this would be the first introduction of an outright gay main character for FF, the love story would have to be OBSCURE. So in other words, the main character would hint at his affections in a such subtle way that only the fanatical apt can tell what he is implying. This way, we avoid hype, cause while he's definitely leaning toward male affection, he's not flambuoyant about it.
Things such as rare male to male hugs could definitely IMPLY homosexuality without kicking you in the face with it.

Let's look at FF8 and tweak the story a bit to make a hypothetical:
Squall and Seifer are lovers. It isn't spoken outright and isn't even hinted at until later on in the game. In the opening movie, they fight. It's not a lover's spat, males, homosexual or not, still have a tendancy to express rivalry if only to help each other become stronger.
Squall and Seifer are separated by the Balamb Garden, whence forth, Squall is forced to partake of battle alongside Zell and the others.
As it is that Squall would still be a loner, he would have a hard time being around these people in the absence of his confidant, but would come around eventually.
Seifer falls under Edea's spell whilst in the throes of separation.
Thus, Squall would fight not only to defeat Edea, but to save Seifer (instead of Rinoa, though he'd eventually save her too as that's what a typical hero does, he saves people). Never at any point do the two have to kiss, they simply imply over the course of the game just how they feel toward each other.

Woman2womaN love = not pretty, kissing is fine
Man2maN love = still not pretty, kissing still fine
Gay marriage = The Big G says it's wrong, so it's wrong, you can BE homosexual all you want, but God ain't gonna condone you're marriage.

I'm tired now. Good night.