Seifer short for Lucifer

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

Did you guyz know that Seifer is short for Lucifer? A.K.A Satan, The Devil, Prince of Darkness...ETC.

How mean is that????

I mean, he's not THAT bad.

:confused:

[Kamrusepas]

I don't believe that. Sounds so far-fetched.

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

But it's true!

[udsuna]

Ah, but pronunciation is off. Seipher could be pronounced "sigh fer" or "see fer"- but no "sih fer" like you'd get shortening Lucifer.

But, if you think about it, he does kinda compare to the *real* story of the rebellion. Shortening it up: Lucifer (Seipher) disobeyes God (garden)... does what he wants... gets in trouble and cast out... brings his angels (Raijin & Fujin)... goes up against the the holy host, led by Micheal (squall & co) gets his ass kicked... loses. The numbers even fit... 1/3 of the heavenly host fell with lucifer... they were thus outnumbered 2 to 1. Seipher's party= 3, Squall's = 6. It fits pretty well.

[Squall of SeeD]

"Seifer" is actually a real name, though, pronounced "Sigh-fur." It's German. Considering that there are crosses on his jacket's upper sleeves, just as there were crosses on the Tuetonic Knight's mantles that would be over their upper arms when the mantles were draped around them, I'm going to assume it's not unrelated.

[seiyuimore]

Ah, but pronunciation is off. Seipher could be pronounced "sigh fer" or "see fer"- but no "sih fer" like you'd get shortening Lucifer.

But, if you think about it, he does kinda compare to the *real* story of the rebellion. Shortening it up: Lucifer (Seipher) disobeyes God (garden)... does what he wants... gets in trouble and cast out... brings his angels (Raijin & Fujin)... goes up against the the holy host, led by Micheal (squall & co) gets his ass kicked... loses. The numbers even fit... 1/3 of the heavenly host fell with lucifer... they were thus outnumbered 2 to 1. Seipher's party= 3, Squall's = 6. It fits pretty well.


Where is the sorcerer part in this place? :confused:
Seifer being rebelled because of the sorcerer. At first he only wants to help Rinoa before being converted.

When Squall fights Seifer, he only uses 2 of his companions while Seifer used the Sorcerer. Seifer never fight with Fuujin and Raijin as his companions.

I don't think there is connection at all with Lucifer because Seifer never wants to be the headmaster of the garden while Lucifer wanted to be a God.

[crashNUMBERS]

"Seifer" is actually a real name, though, pronounced "Sigh-fur." It's German. Considering that there are crosses on his jacket's upper sleeves, just as there were crosses on the Tuetonic Knight's mantles that would be over their upper arms when the mantles were draped around them, I'm going to assume it's not unrelated.

I always thought it was purnounced say-fer...

[Yuffie514]

I don't think there is connection at all with Lucifer because Seifer never wants to be the headmaster of the garden while Lucifer wanted to be a God.

he's just obssessed with being Ultimecia's "lapdog" :chuckle:

[rubah]

I think that's a little bit farfetched.

There's nothing in the game that would hint at Seifer symbolizing lucifer, although his last name does sorta sound like 'Almighty'.

Remember your metre that you learn in poetry. Lu' ci. fer. Sei' fer. Ci isn't stressed, but Sei is.

Of course, going along that line, you could say that cyphers were Satan, all that figuring of math and working out of codes.

[seiyuimore]

he's just obssessed with being Ultimecia's "lapdog" :chuckle:

Ultimecia or Edea? :tongue:

Though both of them are sexy and hot (minus the accent)

[ShivaBlizzard8]

Although Seifer had the romantic dream of being a sorceress' knight in general, I don't think he had any preformed plans to be the lapdog of either Edea or Ulty. He turned to Sorceress Edea as a last resort when Galbadian forces would otherwise have executed him. He screwed up - big time - and Edea offered him refuge. Who could resist? However, once he accepted that role, he was under the influence of Ultimecia, just as Edea was. There is a flashback to their battle in Galbadia Garden on disc 2 that makes this apparent.

Therefore, if Seifer wasn't acting of his own free will, then he's really not comperable to Lucifer or the Devil, who's desire to break out of being God's subserviant was certainly his own idea.

Regardless, I think that the 2:1 ratio thing is a cool observation. Nice work, udsuna. :)

[Squall of SeeD]

Although Seifer had the romantic dream of being a sorceress' knight in general, I don't think he had any preformed plans to be the lapdog of either Edea or Ulty. He turned to Sorceress Edea as a last resort when Galbadian forces would otherwise have executed him. He screwed up - big time - and Edea offered him refuge. Who could resist? However, once he accepted that role, he was under the influence of Ultimecia, just as Edea was. There is a flashback to their battle in Galbadia Garden on disc 2 that makes this apparent.

Therefore, if Seifer wasn't acting of his own free will, then he's really not comperable to Lucifer or the Devil, who's desire to break out of being God's subserviant was certainly his own idea.

The game tells us that Seifer chose to serve Ultimecia:

(From when using Scan on him during the first battle against him.)

Seifer
After leaving the Garden, he decided to become a Sorceress' Knight
under Edea. Uses fire magic in conjunction with sword attacks.

For that matter, he doesn't act all Zombie-like as Rinoa did when she was under Ultimecia's power in Deling City during Ultimecia's speech. Seifer always speaks as though he's none other than himself. Examples:


Squall
"So you've become the sorceress' lap dog?"


Seifer
"I prefer to be called her knight."
"This has always been my dream."


Seifer
"Oh, you guys shouldn't have...I was gonna come visit you at my old home."

Squall
"Shut up."

Seifer
"Did you guys come to fight Matron? After all she's done for us?"
"Selphie, right? I wish we had time to get to know each other."

Selphie
"Nahh. You're not my type."

Seifer
"Instructor Trepe, I'm still one of your dearest students, aren't I?"

Quistis
"Not anymore."

Seifer
"Hey, you're a Galbadian student. Get over here."

Irvine
"I'm happy right here, thank you."

Seifer
"Hey Chicken-wuss. Lot's happened between us, eh?"

Zell
"Yeah! I'm dyin' to get even!"

Seifer
"Rinoa, what are you doing here? You're gonna fight me, too? Come on,
remember a year ago we..."

Rinoa
"Stop it!"


Squall
"Are you going to continue with this knight thing?"

Seifer
"The knight has retired."
"I guess you could call me a young revolutionary."

Squall
"What do you think you're doing?"

Seifer
"I've always gotta be doing somethin' BIG!"
"I don't wanna stop. I'm gonna keep running!"
"I've come this far...I'm gonna make it to the end, to the goal!"
"There's no way I'm sharing it with you!"


Rinoa
"Seifer! Stop it!"
"Haven't you done enough!?"
"I know you're not like that!"

Seifer
"Can't go back now! I can't go anywhere!"
"The sorceresses as one! That is Ultimecia's WISH!"

The indication was always only that he was doing things of his own will.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

I agree its up for debate, but I still don't think Seifer went into the situation completely free-willed. Edea also was not a zombie while possessed, but she certainly was not in control of her own actions.

First of all, Seifer began hating the Sorcereess. The whole reason he got into trouble in the first place was trying to defeat her on his own - by killing President Deling for allying with her:

Squall: "The president of Galbadia and the sorceress joined forces. Seifer attacked the president. It's no surprise that Seifer may have been killed because of it."

Seifer was trying to defend the world from the Sorceress, not join her. Even when Edea gives him a way out, he resists:

Seifer
"Stay away from me!"

Edea
"Such a confused little boy. Are you going to step forward? Retreat? You have to decide."

Seifer
"Stay back!"

Edea
"The boy in you is telling you to come. The adult in you is telling you to back off. You want help, don't you? You want to be saved from this predicament."

Seifer
"Shut up!"

Edea
"Don't be ashamed to ask for help. Besides, you're only a little boy."

Seifer
"I'm not...Stop calling me a boy."

Edea
"You don't want to be a boy anymore?"

Seifer
"I am not a BOY!"

Edea
"Come with me to a place of no return. Bid farewell to your childhood."

*Seifer lets go of the president, and Deling runs away. Seifer waves as Squall, Zell and Selphie enter. The woman uses magic to paralyse them. Seifer and the woman walk through the wall.*

Although he TECHINCALLY goes of his own free will, he is mesmerized by Edea in this scene in a way that's very unnatural. Seifer had the desire to be somebody, but not to ally himself with the sorceress. He was ready to get himself killed to defend everyone from the sorceress. I could be wrong, but I don't even think he necessarily talks about this sorceress knight dream thing before this, either.

Also, during the flashback to Seifer's defeat in Galbadia Garden we again see some zombie like control:

Ulty
"Oh, my loyal knight, Seifer. The sorceress is alive...The sorceress demands."

Squall
(Ultimecia!? The future sorceress is inside Rinoa!?...Transferred from Edea? Where's Rinoa!!!?)

Ulty
"Find the legendary Lunatic Pandora, said to be hidden beneath the ocean. Only then shall the sorceress provide you with dreams again."

Squall
(Rinoa! Where are you? Answer me!)

*Seifer stands up, blank*

Seifer
"As you wish, Ultimecia."

Here he doesn't look nor sound like his brazen self - he acts like a drone.
Finally, after the ultimate defeat of Ultimecia, why is Seifer suddenly content to spend his days fishing?

Therefore, although I agree that the Seifer's free will is up for debate, I personally think that despite his true-to-character speech patterns don't necessarily mean that he wasn't on some level controlled, or at least influenced, by Ulty's desires. Whereas Lucifer was on the top of the totem pole, unquestionably.

[Squall of SeeD]

First of all, Seifer began hating the Sorcereess. The whole reason he got into trouble in the first place was trying to defeat her on his own...

He was trying to win some glory and validation of worth by being the one to take out Deling. His actions during the mission in Dollet show that he was always thinking "BIG" as he would later put it. His actions before the final battle with him summarize that quite accurately:


Seifer
"I've always gotta be doing somethin' BIG!"
"I don't wanna stop. I'm gonna keep running!"
"I've come this far...I'm gonna make it to the end, to the goal!"
"There's no way I'm sharing it with you!"

He was a glory hog.



I could be wrong, but I don't even think he necessarily talks about this sorceress knight dream thing before this, either.

(From very early in the game during the SeeD Field Exam.)

Seifer
"I love battles. I fear nothing."
"The way I look at it, as long as you make it out of battle alive, you're
one step closer to fulfilling your dream."


Squall
"What!? Your dream?"


Seifer
"You have one too, don't you?"


Squall
"...Sorry, but I'm gonna pass on that subject."

...

Seifer
"One of these days, I'm gonna tell ya 'bout my ROMANTIC dream!"

Consider this as well as the fact that one of the books in the school library (a requested book, no less, meaning someone had asked the library to acquire it) was entitled "The Sorceress' Knight." Now also consider that Laguna was in a film in which he starred as a Sorceress' Knight and in which he wielded his Gunblade in a manner similar to how Seifer wields his. Taking these things into consideration, recall what Seifer says to Squall in the Galbadian Desert Prison:


Seifer
"But since I like you so much, I thought you should go first."
"I was hoping you'd be there, Squall. So...how'd I look in my moment of
triumph?"
"My childhood dream, fulfilled. I've become the sorceress' knight."

Squall
(...Sorceress' knight...)
(...His...romantic dream...?)

Seifer had this dream since his childhood and spoke of it well before meeting Ultimecia.



Also, during the flashback to Seifer's defeat in Galbadia Garden we again see some zombie like control...

Or he just likes being submissive -- or dramatic as the case may be. He certainly had a flair for it for most of the game. In any event, his dialogue in Lunatic Pandora doesn't suggest anyone else's will was influencing him:


Fujin
"RAIJIN, STOP!"

Seifer
"What's up?"

Raijin
"We've had enough, ya know..."

<Fujin lets Ellone go.>

Fujin
"GO."

<Ellone looks to Fujin, who nods. Ellone runs to Squall.>

Squall
"Wait outside. Laguna should be here soon."

<Ellone leaves.>

Seifer
"Hey, hey...Come on people."

Raijin
"Seifer, we're quittin', ya know? Don't know what's right anymore, ya
know..."

Seifer
"Exactly my thoughts. I thought we were a posse."

Fujin
"POSSE..."
"We are. We always will be."
"Because we're a posse, we want to help you."
"Whatever it takes to fulfill your dream, we're willing to do."
"But...You're being manipulated, Seifer."
"You've lost yourself and your dream. You're just eating out of someone's
hand."
"We want the old you back!"
"Since we can't get through to you, all we have now to rely on is Squall!"
"It's sad...Sad that we only have Squall to rely on..."
"Seifer! Are you still gonna keep goin'?"

<Seifer shrugs, then salutes.>

Seifer
"Raijin, Fujin! It's been fun!"

<Raijin and Fujin leave. Seifer jumps from his platform to Squall.>

Squall
"Are you going to continue with this knight thing?"

Seifer
"The knight has retired."
"I guess you could call me a young revolutionary."

Squall
"What do you think you're doing?"

Seifer
"I've always gotta be doing somethin' BIG!"
"I don't wanna stop. I'm gonna keep running!"
"I've come this far...I'm gonna make it to the end, to the goal!"
"There's no way I'm sharing it with you!"

After being defeated, he again ran scared, backed into a corner as before in Timber, and once again saw his only option as the course presented to him by Ultimecia:


Seifer
"Can't go back now! I can't go anywhere!"
"The sorceresses as one! That is Ultimecia's WISH!"



Finally, after the ultimate defeat of Ultimecia, why is Seifer suddenly content to spend his days fishing?

That question applies whether he was being controlled or not, as he shows himself to be one who wants to be doing something "BIG" all the time even before he meets Ultimecia. In any event, the answer is likely that he's grown up and become humble and accepting of himself and his position. As far as character development goes, for him to have come to this juncture without having done things of his own free will would render the greater part of his growth as not even attributable to the experiences of Seifer himself.


In any event, we again have the quote from the game itself that tells us he chose to serve Ultimecia:


Seifer
After leaving the Garden, he decided to become a Sorceress' Knight
under Edea. Uses fire magic in conjunction with sword attacks.



Therefore, although I agree that the Seifer's free will is up for debate, I personally think that despite his true-to-character speech patterns don't necessarily mean that he wasn't on some level controlled, or at least influenced, by Ulty's desires. Whereas Lucifer was on the top of the totem pole, unquestionably.

Just to clarify this, I'm not even discussing the ridiculus Lucifer angle of this Thread, at least not beyond the extent to which my opening Post in this Thread did so. I was simply discussing the nature of Seifer's actions.

For a more in-depth explanation of the argument I'm making concerning Seifer, you could view my Post in this Thread (http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56411) if you're interested.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

LOL. Good points. I concede. :p

[Angel Of Apocolypse]

I always thought it was pronounced see-fer, and I used to say Quistis' name like Qid-is, but it is Quis-tis, right? They should make a remake with voices...

[udsuna]

Where is the sorcerer part in this place? :confused:
Seifer being rebelled because of the sorcerer. At first he only wants to help Rinoa before being converted.

That's what we call being seduced by power ;)

Personally, I don't think there's a real connection, I just played "devil's advocate" because no one else would. And I like to think I have the intelligence and articulation to pull this line. But, like I said, some interesting parallels. And FF7 borrowed VERY HEAVILY off of ancient judaic concepts, I see no reason why 8 couldn't have done the same for christian concepts.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

I always thought it was pronounced see-fer, and I used to say Quistis' name like Qid-is, but it is Quis-tis, right? They should make a remake with voices...

LOL - I used to pronouce Quistis wrong all the time too. I believe the correct pronouciation, however, is Keys-tis, because the "qui" sound is French.

[Camanche]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure ShivaBlizzard has that correct. I know a bit of French so her name pronunciation came naturally to me. For some reason, when I first saw Quistis, her personality traits and her mannerisms, I had her pegged as a 'French' woman. Couldn't tell you why, but I just did. I used to pronounce Seifer's name extremely incorrect at first though.

See-Ih-Fur

But I'm pretty sure that Sigh-Fur is the correct pronunciation now.

[MJN SEIFER]

"Seifer" is actually a real name, though, pronounced "Sigh-fur." It's German. Considering that there are crosses on his jacket's upper sleeves, just as there were crosses on the Tuetonic Knight's mantles that would be over their upper arms when the mantles were draped around them, I'm going to assume it's not unrelated.

In FFVIII Seifer has 2 meanings the first is the above the 2nd is a play on "Cipher" (Sigh-fer) which basically means "Zero" or "No influence or Value" It might be bacause (until Sorcery) Seifer feels like a "Zero" especially that scene where he fails the exam (You can tell by looking at him that he took it)

[Shoden]

bull crap

i pronounce it say-fur

not sigh-fer

[MJN SEIFER]

I was just stating what I heard! (From Square actually so it's hardly "bull Crap")

I never pronoce it "Sigh-fur" myself even though it's "Correct"

[rubah]

The ei vowel sound is more common than you think.

'kees-tis' was a logical second conclusion, after having a couple of years to absorb languages after hearing the name the first time then actually playing the game^^;

seifer, I can't quite explain the reasoning. It's more of a 'oh, well, the e must be silent, so yay long iis!'

I'm sure there's a rule for it somewhere. Plus, almost all of the sei words in the dictionary starts off 'sii' (I've never heard of a seesmograph, or a saysmograph)

[Tigmafuzz]

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