Just got a new computer...having a bit of a problem though

[Optium]

I just got a new computer by this company CPU Builders. Whatever,
it was cheap. I just threw my 80 gig hd from my old computer into it as
the slave but for some reason when I try to install it (I'm using the OS
that came with the computer, by the way, it's CPU Builders Linux, I
think it's a Redhat based version of Linux), it seems to only recognize
the first partition on the harddrive. Anyone know anything about Linux,
harddrives, or partitions who could give me a hand? :\

Thanks

.opt

[ffrinoa8]

sorry i know nothing of computers and i don't think many other people here do either...sorry... :(

[ShunNakamura]

I do not know if you have done this yet, but you must set up the HD to be a slave. This is usually done through the PIN settings. If this is the problem you will have to look up your particular hard drive to get the neccesary help. Be warned though that the sites aren't always easy to understand.

Also the way it is hooked into the computer matters as well, which means you need to know how your particular motherboard works... although this is usually not a major issue.

As for it being a problem with linux itself... I have never had any problem once the HD is set right.

It is hard for me to explain it without being there to access it myself.

[crono_logical]

Recognise the first partition of which hard drive? If it can see anything on a hard drive, you can assume it's set up correctly phyically inside the computer.

When you install Redhat, you can repartition the drive during installation anyway - it should be self-explanatory during setup.

The problem is more you're not really being very specific, making it kind of hard to help you :p

[Optium]

Thanks for the replies, and I'll try to be as specific as possible without being
completely boring. The drives are set up correctly physically, with the HD which came
with the computer as the master, and my old HD as the slave. The old HD is a
Western Digital, by the way. The master drive (the one that came with the computer)
has no partitions since I didn't install Linux, it came with it (one of the reasons the
computer was so cheap). My old HD has 3 partitions on it, when I attached it and
set everything up, it recognized that the physical drive was there, but I guess it
didn't recognize that it was a number of partitions, so it thinks the entire harddrive
is 30 gigs, when in fact it's 80. The first 30 gigs I used to store music, the other
partitions were for other storage and my XP. It doesn't see these partitions though,
only the one with the music on it.

.opt

[ShunNakamura]

Do you now what format your old partitions are at?

I believe XP installs NTFS as it's default and I know older versions of windows wont' see such partitions, and I have heard of Linux having similar problems unless you set it up properly.

If this is the case I will look to see how to set up linux properly.. I have a few freinds who use linux alot, although I personally have little experience with it.

edit-
here you go see if this helps you

http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/info/ntfs.html#3.5

[crono_logical]

I'd get hold of the latest version of Redhat then (if you insist on using Redhat - I personally wouldn't ever use it on my computers. I'd go with Gentoo instead, but unless you're willing to do a <i>lot</i> of learning in a short period of time and capable of it, it's not a linux I recommend to someone new to it all). I'm not sure why it's not seeing the partitions - they should still show up as a unknown partitions since they'll be in the partition table anyway. Newer versions of linux have no problems reading them - it's only writing that's still a problem, though that's partially overcome.

How large is the master drive? Also, when you said it saw 30 GB, was that referring to the partition it could see, or the entire disk (it should give both numbers anyway)? Also, is it roughly 30 GB, or is it more like 32 GB? Since I think there's a 32 GB limit with certain BIOSes, preventing them seeing more than that much of the hard disk. If this is the case, you're looking at flashing your BIOS. Alternatively, you might have set the clip jumper on the drive by mistake, clipping it to 32 GB - try double checking the jumpers on the disk too (it should be in the same place where you set it to master/slave).


EDIT: This thread might be of interest too :p (http://www.techsupportforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=42114)

[Optium]

Actually the partitions were made when I installed Windows on the harddrive, so
they are the wrong format. I didn't even think of that. Thanks for the link...I'm
going to read it right after I reply here.

The reason this harddrive has partitions is because of that BIOS 32gig max, actually.
I installed this harddrive on an old computer where I used it for a while, until I got
this new computer. The harddrive itself is 80gb but the first and second partitions are
both 30gb. This is all that my Linux OS sees. But actually, there's something strange.
I had Windows XP on the second partition of my harddrive and when I start up it
brings up Windows in the OS choices menu, so the BIOS itself is recognizing the
other partitions (unless maybe there's a boot record on the first partition or something)
but Linux isn't. I'm not using Redhat though, it's the OS that came with the computer,
CPU Builders Linux. I figure I'll switch to a different version of Linux and probably
install some version of Windows on another partition or something eventually, but
for now I'd like to get stuff set up so that I'll still have some idea of what's going on
when I do switch to another version. I'm also somewhat hesitant to start formatting
and installing new OSes because that's how I killed my previous computer, and
it's why I have this new one. Thanks again, though. I'll check out both of those
articles and see if they help. :)

.opt

EDIT: Aha!

fdisk -l

Disk /dev/hda: 40.0 GB, 40020664320 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 4865 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 * 1 4799 38547936 83 Linux
/dev/hda2 4800 4864 522112+ 82 Linux swap

Disk /dev/hdb: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hdb1 * 1 3824 30716248+ c Win95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/hdb2 3825 9729 47431912+ f Win95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/hdb5 3825 7648 30716248+ b Win95 FAT32
/dev/hdb6 7649 9729 16715601 b Win95 FAT32
So it does recognize that the other partitions exist...

[crono_logical]

Doesn't matter if Windows makes the partitions, Linux can still read them, since the partition table is standard. Unless you use dynamic disks in Win2K/XP, but even then, compile the linux kernel with appropriate support, and it can read those too.

The OS choices menu in Windows is defined by a text file on the HD, and has nothing to do with the BIOS.

[ShunNakamura]

You don't seem to be using any NTFS so I am seriousally starting to get stumped by this... I'll do some more searching and see what I come up with.

why couldn't it be the NTFS that is the problem *gumbles*

well lets try this then it may help a bit.



patch-0.2.10.gz
This is the most current patch for 2.0.31-2.0.33 kernels
Kernel patch made against 2.0.31. It works with 2.0.31 to 2.0.33. When applied to 2.0.33, you will get a reject in linux/fs/vfat/namei.c.rej. You can ignore this reject since this piece has already been applied.
Incorporated into 2.0.34
Changes Linux kernel to recognize LBA extended partitions (type 0xf)


this may help a bit since it seems a large chunk of space is on a Extended LBA partition. So I don't think it would hurt to try this and see what happens.

http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/people/chaffee/fat32.html

Hmm.. that site actually has a fair bit of info. You said you think that CPU builder's linux is based off of redhat right? well looks like redhat isn't a real good linux at all, at least it seems to need more troubleshooting.

[crono_logical]

Yeah, never mind that Redhat is the choice of linux for most businesses that go for linux for workstations, especially in the States. And why the heck are you linking to patches for 2.0.* kernels? They're ancient, and there should be no reason for needing to use a kernel that old for the past many years now.

[ShunNakamura]

hmm... well I didn't realize that they were that ancient.. .should have payed more intention. But wowzers, that is anceint.. bah... I realy over looked something.

[crono_logical]

I assume you don't really use linux much, since the kernel's up to 2.6 now :p

[ShunNakamura]

nope not at all.

my dad tried to coax me into installing Red Hat 6 or something similar last year... I did, but didn't like it much.. at the time I only wanted to get my comp running again.. taht and red hat wasn't recognizing my internet at all.. and.. that is kinda important to me.

I don't think I particually like red hat... although I still dislike windows more... I really dislike windows. But it is what I am used to, and I am actually fairly good at solving windows problems, so *shrug*. What I really like are the old Macs, such as the Macintosh LC III... you know how badly I can abuse that thing and still have it work none the worse for wear?!

Anyways, yeah, linux is not very common to me. No one I know uses it as thier Main booter, although they may use it in a dual-boot, and I personally couldn't get it to work right, not internet, and it wouldn't dual-boot wiht 2k for me.. although I know it can, I just missed something.. maybe I should try linux again, since it is becoming more popular.

BTW, if I do attempt linux again, which would you recomend. You said you like Gentoo, but it takes a lot of learning.. So I guess my question is, how MUCH learning I usually am good but not always.

[crono_logical]

So it does recognize that the other partitions exist...So what exactly is not detecting the partitions? Just the installer?

[ShunNakamura]

I am not sure but I believe that was probably a utility check he ran to see if the computer knows it is there(some of the linux sites showed similar code sequences) but yet linux itself still won't see it.

Of course In windows I have seen such happen... so maybe it happens in linux as well?

[crono_logical]

BTW, if I do attempt linux again, which would you recomend. You said you like Gentoo, but it takes a lot of learning.. So I guess my question is, how MUCH learning I usually am good but not always.Well with gentoo, if you do it properly, you end up compiling everything from source code, including configuring and compiling the kernel - which can take days, especially on a slow computer :p This is all done from a command line too, including setting up internet access so you can download the source code before you can start compiling, and a lot of other settings (basically all settings) to fine tune the installation to your specific computer. There's also things like portage, the package distribution system, which you need to learn to use, to get software. I'm sure I've missed a lot of stuff, since it's not easy to condense the huge installation manual into one paragraph :p This is the "quick" install guide, if you're wondering (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-quickinstall.xml) (needs quite a bit of background knowldge in linux to use) - the walk-you-through one is at least 20 times the size, (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml) but it does literally walk you through what to do. I suggest you look through the second one fully before attempting anything if you do choose Gentoo and you're not too familiar with linux.

If you want to try installing something easier, I suppose Fedora Core 3 (new name for the free version of Redhat) isn't bad for a relatively new user - it has a nice GUI installation too instead of command-line based. Alternatively, just download Knoppix and burn that to a CD, and boot it - Knoppix doesn't need installing and runs off the CD completely without touching the HD if you don't want it to, so is good if you just want to look around and preview linux with a graphical environment (great for troubleshooting/recovery purposes too :p ).

[ShunNakamura]

Right... I think I'll stay away from compiling it myself for now.. I am familar with command line... but not overly so. Could be a fun experience when I get around to it.

The biggest problem for me getting linux right now.. is the fact that I don't got any CD-R's.. wonder if I can get around that somehow? heh, I shoudl have 1 or 2 of them I can scare up somewhere.

[Optium]

I think I must be doing something wrong now...I'm trying to mount the drive through
the terminal since I know the terminal sees the partitions. I unmounted hdb, which is
actually hdb1 and tried to "mount -t /dev/hdb2" but I get this:

mount: can't find /dev/hdb2 in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab

Is there any way to add the other partitions to fstab, or am I just completely off. I'm
not exactly sure about what everything does or what it means, I guess this is the
awkward period when you first get into a new OS or video game or card game....
you know the basics but you can't really link everything together yet. :p

.opt

I'm also having a hell of a time with GTK+ so i might have to come back for some
more tech support later. heh...

[crono_logical]

If the partition's not in fstab, then as root, you do


mount /dev/hdb2 /path/to/someemptyfolder

You didn't need to unmount hdb1 if you create a new empty folder and mount hdb2 there instead, unless you spefically wanted hdb2 mounted where hdb1 used to be.

If you want to add it to fstab so you only have to speficy /dev/hdb2 and not the place to mount as well, just copy the syntax of some existing line and modify it appropriately (the device, the place to mount, and possibly the filesystem type, though the last could work if left as auto) :p

Also, I don't actually think you can mount /dev/hdb2, since it's your extended partition, looking at your fdisk output earlier. You want to be mounting hdb5 and hdb6, th logical drives, instead :p

[Optium]

HEY HEY HEY!

Seems like it's working now...just need to do some fine tuning. Thanks man, I'll
reply again when I figure this all out and tell you exactly what was wrong...haha.

.opt

[ShunNakamura]

Don't you just love how that works out?

it just seems to fixes itself... but yet you know computers don't fix themselves.... or do the? :eek:

anyways, yes please do tell us.. that way I can store it for future reference.

[Optium]

Meh, I can't figure out exactly why it didn't work, but all I did was add those lines
to the fstab and now it recognizes that there are a number of partitions and can
load them all. Small victory but I'm going to try to get my hands on a copy of Windows
because Linux is pissing me off at the moment. I love how versitile it is but I don't
think I can seriously get into it yet. Seems like everything I try to do is a hastle and
takes up hours of my time, eventually ending in me giving up and not actually
finishing what I was trying to do. This happens pretty much every time I try to
install something. I need like 2 other libraries to install it, and I need 2 others for each
of those 2, then eventually one of them doesn't recognize that the others are installed
and the whole thing is dead in the water. I think I'll go watch some TV. haha

.opt

[crono_logical]

Yeah, that's why I hate the .rpm package system :p

[Optium]

It happens with the sources too, all the time. And those are a bitch to install. ;\

.opt

[crono_logical]

I find sources easy to install :p


# ./configure
# make
# make install

for a lot of them :p

[Dr Unne]

Small victory but I'm going to try to get my hands on a copy of Windows
because Linux is pissing me off at the moment. I love how versitile it is but I don't
think I can seriously get into it yet. Seems like everything I try to do is a hastle and
takes up hours of my time, eventually ending in me giving up and not actually
finishing what I was trying to do.

If you buy a computer with Linux on it already, even if you want to keep Linux, I'd say format the hard drive and install something from scratch so you know what you have.

Gentoo handles dependencies, that's why it's nice. If you want programs worth using, you're going to need literally hundreds of libraries, so you can go find RPMs for all of them, or type "emerge packagename" in Gentoo and come back in a few hours and it's done. It figures out what you need including all dependencies, it fetches the files from the internet for you, it installs them all in the right order, and it provides you a method for knowing what you've installed and also a way to uninstall them later.

Manually doing ./configure && make && make install will end up killing you. It blasts files all over your hard drive at random. You don't know what, where, or why, or what you just replaced by accident, and sometimes you don't know how to undo what you just did, if it's even possible. And you shouldn't have to know; that's what computers are for, so you don't have to think about that crap.

Linux in general takes massive amounts of time and effort to learn and set up. It's good if you're a "set it up once and never touch it" kind of person, but most people who use Linux for their desktop probably aren't that kind of person. Depending on what your goals are, it can be worth the effort.

[Optium]

Small victory but I'm going to try to get my hands on a copy of Windows
because Linux is pissing me off at the moment. I love how versitile it is but I don't
think I can seriously get into it yet. Seems like everything I try to do is a hastle and
takes up hours of my time, eventually ending in me giving up and not actually
finishing what I was trying to do.

If you buy a computer with Linux on it already, even if you want to keep Linux, I'd say format the hard drive and install something from scratch so you know what you have.

Gentoo handles dependencies, that's why it's nice. If you want programs worth using, you're going to need literally hundreds of libraries, so you can go find RPMs for all of them, or type "emerge packagename" in Gentoo and come back in a few hours and it's done. It figures out what you need including all dependencies, it fetches the files from the internet for you, it installs them all in the right order, and it provides you a method for knowing what you've installed and also a way to uninstall them later.

Manually doing ./configure && make && make install will end up killing you. It blasts files all over your hard drive at random. You don't know what, where, or why, or what you just replaced by accident, and sometimes you don't know how to undo what you just did, if it's even possible. And you shouldn't have to know; that's what computers are for, so you don't have to think about that crap.

Linux in general takes massive amounts of time and effort to learn and set up. It's good if you're a "set it up once and never touch it" kind of person, but most people who use Linux for their desktop probably aren't that kind of person. Depending on what your goals are, it can be worth the effort.
That's exactly my problem. For instance, I just downloaded bittorrent because on
this computer I can actually watch some videos without the sound being half a
second off from the video in like 5 seconds, but after it installed I had no idea
where the hell it was. I've been doing ./configure, make, and make install all day
and it's really painful, especially when one of the pieces doesn't recognize that
you've already installed the needed dependencies for it. I'd definitely like to try out
a good version of Linux though, but I am hesitant to get Gentoo. I figure I'll
probably format the master harddrive, reinstall the version of Linux that's on here
right now, but that will be on a small partition, then I'll have a bunch of other
partitions for XP and some other versions of Linux, hopefully some of them will be
good enough to get me away from Windows for good. :p

.opt

[Dr Unne]

There's no reason not to get Gentoo. It's not hard. The install guide tells you what to type, each command, literally letter by letter. A bit of time to get it set up will save you hours and hours of crap later.

[ShunNakamura]

yes I have been playing around with gentoo.. and it looks fun and not hard.. I just can't seem to get it to install and mount onto my already made partitions... don't want to completely reformat my comp... actualy I can get away with just fdisking my C: drive which is 7-10 gigs.

And no I don't have a secondary.. my silly laptop.. well wait I do have another laptop hd, but it is 480mb only :tongue:

It is time for me to clean out my windows.. but I have been putting of doing the massive backup procedures ot make sure I don't lose what I want to keep... guess I should get round to that know, it's been about a year since I last formated my 98.

[Optium]

Get an external harddrive. I got one for Christmas and I've gotten so much use out
of it. Backup stuff (obviously), share tons of music with friends, share movies,
programs, etc. I bring it to my friend Will's house and record his band's practice
sessions onto it through his Firepod hooked to his computer. Then take it home and
make some awesome remixes and crazy stuff with all the MIDI info. :p

I think I will get and install Gentoo though. After I get Win98 from Will on Tuesday
and get my external back from him later in the week I'll be good to go, so I figure
I'll do it this weekend. I did look at the install docs on Gentoo's site and while it
looks complex, they have extremely good documentation. I really don't want to go
back to Windows now that I've finally sort of dragged myself away from it.

.opt

[Optium]

It appears my external harddrive has nothing on it, where earlier today it had 90 gigs
of movies, programs, music, and backup information from my old computer. Not
sure how this happened but I'm about to break something....raaaaahhh [/vent]

.opt