do we exist?

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

i just finished ffx and tidus dissapearing made me think.
are we just dreams or something else?
its a conspiracy or something :shifty: :shifty:

:shoot:

[theundeadhero]

I exist, but how do I know everyone else isn't a figment of my imagination and they disappear when I don't think about them. :confused:

[nik0tine]

Of course we exist. To think otherwise is absurd. The fact that we can even think about stuff like that proves existence, even if we don't exist in the way we think we do.


I exist, but how do I know everyone else isn't a figment of my imagination and they disappear when I don't think about them. :confused:
I have thought about this before. It is strange to think that other people, places and things exist when they aren't in my mind.

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

could we just have created an entire life when we are really in a mental asylum that we made up?????

:shoot:

[theundeadhero]

I could imagine you saying that :p

[strawberryman]

Why ask why?

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

Why ask why?
what part of my imaginary forum surfing peeps said why?

:shoot:

[Old Manus]

*pinches self*

I don't feel anything.

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

*thinks about pinching self then remembers that self doesnt exist

:shoot:

[strawberryman]

Why ask why?
what part of my imaginary forum surfing peeps said why?

:shoot:
It's rhetorical.
and it applies to more than questions that ask why. What I am saying is, why ask if we exist? What's the point?

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

there is no point
does it require one and if it did i couldnt imagine what it would be :twak:
:shoot:

[Armisael]

i just finished ffx and tidus dissapearing made me think.

FFX is a game
Only Tidus dissapeared

I think we exist ^_^

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

someone give me solid evidence that we exist.

:shoot:

[The Captain]

"I think, therefore I am."

The ability to contemplate our existance and to react to this contemplation is part of what makes us aware of ourselves and of life, in my opinion.

Take care all.

[nik0tine]

Im sorry shadow, but it should be you who should be giving us proof that we don't exist.

And Captain, I never could understand the depth behind that quote. It should be "I feel, therefore I am."

[The Captain]

I suppose, that opens up a whole other can of worms, intellect versus emotion, thought versus feeling. Are they truly one and the same?

Take care all.

[Rinen]

Instead of individual beings being a dream, perhaps all existence as we know it to be a dream. Who is the one dreaming, who knows. Perhaps this is just a way to figure out who is the one dreaming, and other possibilities. A dream can be endless, time could be created, but limited to the amount we dream. To make it harder, it is possible that everyone is a part of a dream within a dream, so this would be humans-earth-solar system-galaxy-universe. A mass collective in order to dream within these dreams to create existence. No one knows, I don't really care, as long as I can think for myself, or at least think that I think for myself, I'm happy. Give a dog a bone and the dog will be happy, take that bone away, and the dog would be angry and scared.

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

if you have seen the matrix then you will know most of waht i am saying
4 those who havnt here is what morpheus sayz
The Matrix is everywhere, it's all
around us, here even in this room.
You can see it out your window, or
on your television. You feel it
when you go to work, or go to
church or pay your taxes. It is
the world that has been pulled
over your eyes to blind you from
the truth.
in our case it may not be a "matrix" but something very similar

:shoot:

[Samuraid]

We exist.

[The Captain]

One question I had about the Matrix that never got answered:

Was ALL of the earth, aside from Zion, enslaved? It always seemed to me that the metropolis that was meant to be the dwelling of all the trapped people was WAY too small to actually hold all the population of the planet in any sort of suspended animation.

Take care all.

[nik0tine]

I suppose, that opens up a whole other can of worms, intellect versus emotion, thought versus feeling. Are they truly one and the same?

They are totally seperate in my opinion. However, thinking (especially at a deeper level) often times triggers emotion. Thinking and feeling often times go hand in hand, but they are not the same thing.

[Shlup]

I fucking hate philosophy.

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

yes all of earth was enslaved and the population of the planet wasent really that much considering they were mostly still in the matrix or dead

:shoot:

[nik0tine]

Why?

[Masamune·1600]

One question I had about the Matrix that never got answered:

Was ALL of the earth, aside from Zion, enslaved? It always seemed to me that the metropolis that was meant to be the dwelling of all the trapped people was WAY too small to actually hold all the population of the planet in any sort of suspended animation.

Take care all.

Although many of the ideas in The Matrix were somewhat ambiguous, it seems that the earth, with the obvious exception of Zion, was completely enslaved. While there's no way to know how large a population was being sustained in said metropolis, The Architect implies in The Matrix Reloaded that Neo would be condemning all of humanity to extinction if he didn't return to the Source. This suggests that all humans outside of Zion were, in fact, plugged into the system.


As to the question of whether or not we exist, this is a classical philosophical question that was addressed most notably by Rene Descartes. You might want to consider reading his ruminations on the matter, if you're still curious. Actually, theundeadhero's question of whether everyone else exists is one of the topics examined. The Captain's quote "I think, therefore I am" is also taken directly from Descartes. While his overall argument for rebuilding knowledge seems to suffer from a sort of loop, it is very interesting.

And as to my beliefs? We definitely exist. Every time I feel emotion or recall a memory attests to that, in my opinion. And, if nothing else, Tidus did come back in FFX-2. ;)

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

he came back made of pyreflies though

:shoot:

[Polaris]

let me check... body... mind... yeah at least I exist... ok wait *go and herself in the mirror* WHO-OH I CAN SEE MYSELF ON THE MIRROR so I think I exist!

[Dr.K]

I've often wondered about this, and it does seem so baffling that there are just so many different people living their own independent lives on this planet, which are all going on in the background with respect to each of our own lives. At the end of the day, I think we must exist - how could it be otherwise?

[Rusty]

Did you have to spoil the ending of FFX? And yes, we do exsist.

[Meat Puppet]

I saw Jesus on a tortilla shell.

[Haemo]

strawberryman is right and in case anyone doen't get it... everyone is always intent on questioning everything but the real question is why must we question everything.
but if u really want to insist on being a dream then tell me... can a dream question wheather he exists?

[Levian]

could we just have created an entire life when we are really in a mental asylum that we made up?????

:shoot:

Hmm, please stop playing Silent Hill before you get more ideas in your head.

[KuRt]

We really do exist but we do NOT have a purpose why do we exist

[theundeadhero]

"I think, therefore I am."
I know I think and therefor know I am. I also feel, but how do I know you do? I really don't. The same way, you know you think and you feel, but how do you know everyone else does. Maybe we're all part of your imagination.


Tidus thought and felt.

[DMKA]

The answer is clearly "no".

[Harvest Moon]

Things suck too much not to be true.
People suck too much to be figments of my immagination.
The end.

[Yamaneko]

I think therefore I yam.

[rubah]

I"m told we exist, and it sounds logical to me^_^

[Cruise Control]

Your all way to practical...
The poll was an attempt at intelligent conversation, and it failed horribly (sort of).

How do you know that we are all not just some plaything of a higher diety?
How do you know we aren't just something imagined by god/satan/whatever you belive in?

[kikimm]

There is no real way of knowing; you're not going to get profound evidence that will prove either side. It's just not possible. It's all faith, what you have come to believe in.

So yes, I believe we exist. I have my reasons, of course, but telling you them won't make you change what you believe in. I can't back up my beliefs with any cold, hard evidence, either. I would if I could; it would be nice to be reassured. But that's just....not the way it goes.


:D

[Dignified Pauper]

All life and matter is merely highly complex forms of energy.

[eestlinc]

it doesn't matter either way

[Quina]

If I didn't exist then why would I be wearing this hat?

[Yamaneko]

Because you were about to make me dinner.

[Mercen-X]

Existence doesn't matter. Even if you believed well enough that you don't exist, you'd still feel pain and sorrow and emptiness. Not that these emotions define existence but denying it will not allow you to escape them.
Whether we are but the dream of another is beyond our consideration. We should continue to strive for happiness here even if it is meaningless to someone else. You feel, you see, you think, you question, you are and cannot stop being.
Here's a fact: these words have no real meaning. humans made up this language along with thousands of other languages. thus, these words, beyond our perception, have absolutely no purpose or meaning. Yet, they are, and we continue to use them in this language as other cultures use other meaningless words in their languages.
We'd might as well be cavemen saying "oohooh ahah." As our language to any who has not learned it would sound just like that.

[-N-]

For in vain shall we dispute concerning the real existence of things, or pretend to any knowledge thereof, so long as we have not fixed the meaning of those words.

I kick this rock and refute him thus!

[Haemo]

Mercen-X, though what u said is right that was not the question... evern if existance doesn't matter we can still ponder over it for numerous reasons. And the fact that we are pondering over it proves we exist, something that doesn't exist doesn't exist so therefor it does not know about itself or anything else for that matter and has no consience thought. So this whole forum is prof of our existance.

[Ism]

Mercen-X, though what u said is right that was not the question... evern if existance doesn't matter we can still ponder over it for numerous reasons. And the fact that we are pondering over it proves we exist, something that doesn't exist doesn't exist so therefor it does not know about itself or anything else for that matter and has no consience thought. So this whole forum is prof of our existance.


Exactly what i would have said.

Adios.

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

some random conversation from the matrix that help me prove we dont "exist"

Morpheus : I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who
accepts what he sees, because he is expecting to wake up.
Ironically, this is not far from the truth....
Morpheus sits down in the armchair opposite from Neo
Morpheus : Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo : No.
Morpheus : Why?
Neo : Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my
own life.

NEO This isn't real?
MORPHEUS What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about your senses, what you feel, taste, smell, or see, then all you're talking about are electrical signals interpreted by your brain.



my thoughts exactly :shoot: :evilking:

[Martyr]

Do we exist?

I think that what's his face's Razor is the answer.

Um... What's his face said that the most obvious and logical answer is probably the right one.

In this case, the answer is that whoever asked this question is probably retarded.

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

no im not

*holds matyr down untill he takes comment back*

:shoot:

[Jebus]

Ok.

Someone prove that we exist.

And for those who believe the other way:

Prove that we don't exist.

You cannot do either. There is no proof either way. How do you KNOW that this is not a dream or an illusion? How do you KNOW that everything you see is real? People hallucinate all the time, and to them, the visions are real. Maybe your friends are just halucinations. Maybe your school/job is just a dream. Maybe life itself is just a fever dream. We do not, and can not know. However, if we assume that we do not exist, it offers a rather nice insight into the idea of reality itself.

I've been thinking about this subject for around three or so years now. It's just like Chuang Tze's dream, of which we get this quote:

"I once dreamed that I was a butterfly, flying among the flowers. When I awoke, I no longer knew if I was a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming I was a man."

I had a very similar dream to this. The detail and overall realism was amazing. So much so, that I did not even know I had woke up. I thought I was still asleep.

In essence. You exist if you believe you exist.

[Rase]

This thread give me a headache, therefore I don't care.

[Jojee]

*slaps Quina* Please stop using that font, it's so not you :( *cries*

And no, I'm just a figment of my imagination ^_^

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

mine to

:shoot:

[bennator]

Cognito, ergo sum.

That's all I care about.

[BlackRibon]

we don't exist till we have 6 years old, because before that we don't know the results of our acts. when we do, we exist

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

what if i was a computer program created by another program to annoy the hell out of you other computer programs?



you wont remember this encounter
:shoot:

[Ultima Shadow]

No.

Hi! My name is *insert name* and I don't exist! Do you? :)

[MoonZapdos]

Of course we exist... we're chatting right here in this forums, aren't we?

[udsuna]

Obviously we exist, in as much as our presence influences that which is around us, and vice-versa. Now, if we are in fact "dream entities", we STILL exist, just not in the state which we believe ourselves to be.

Do these words your reading exist? They are made of nothing but recorded coding displayed on your screen. Heck, even my typing them doesn't make them anything more than, for all intents, an illusion. But, I type them, and you read them, and you come to see the meanings behind these funny little shapes and know (or at least COULD know) what I mean when I type these "non-existant" words.

So, even if we're a dream, even if we're a fantasy or an illusion, we still *exist*.

[smittenkitten]

No i don't exist because no-one loves me and its dream i can't wake from im either still on titan having this bad dream or this is some hell i can't escape from...

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

awwww everyone loves you smitten



you wont remember this encounter
:shoot:

[Mercen-X]

Existence doesn't matter. Even if you believed well enough that you don't exist, you'd still feel pain and sorrow and emptiness. Not that these emotions define existence but denying it will not allow you to escape them.
Whether we are but the dream of another is beyond our consideration. We should continue to strive for happiness here even if it is meaningless to someone else. You feel, you see, you think, you question, you are and cannot stop being.

Mercen-X, though what you said is right that was not the question... even if existance doesn't matter we can still ponder over it for numerous reasons. And the fact that we are pondering over it proves we exist, something that doesn't exist doesn't exist so therefore it does not know about itself or anything else for that matter and has no consience thought. So this whole forum is proof of our existance.
You don't seem to understand. I never suggested that I don't exist, it's my suggestion that for all I know, you don't exist and you can't prove to ME that YOU do AND it DOESN'T matter. I still have to carry on. I can't just stop, even if I'm all that's real. I know I exist even if my body doesn't. You know you exist too . . . but I don't know you exist. Understand?
How can you prove to me that YOU'RE pondering? You can't. For all I know, you are merely an imaginary friend I am pondering for. Imaginary friends can have secrets you know. Secrets the dreamer doesn't know about.
This forum is NOT proof of our existence because every word can merely be the imagined foresight of the dreamer: me. When you dream of a monster, the reason it chases you is because you expect it to, the reason you cannot fight it is because you expect it to be stronger. In my dreams, I expect all my foes to be weaker and thus, I am always the victor. I also expect that there will be continued responses to this forum and thus it is a possibility that every response is merely a thought derived from my subconscious.
Everything including your misspelling of "existence" can merely be the results of my subconscious expectations.

[Halifax Housewife]

kitchens exist

[boris no no]

i exist....otherwise my hands would go straight through the keyboard :s

[Leene]

:save: I think we exist. :save:

[Project G]

Oh my god, it's a vivi moment, we can't prove that we exist or not, this life could be a dream of some weird alien

[Mercen-X]

Off topic:

What would be worse?
Trying to explore the entire universe and never succeeding because it's infinite . . . or reaching the end of the universe and realizing that we're trapped inside.
People always want to get out. Nobody ever wants to climb into something. We're all so claustrophobic.

[Primus Inter Pares]

Off topic:

What would be worse?
Trying to explore the entire universe and never succeeding because it's infinite . . . or reaching the end of the universe and realizing that we're trapped inside.
People always want to get out. Nobody ever wants to climb into something. We're all so claustrophobic.


The second one, infinity leads to opportunity and therefore reaching a limit has... errr, limits :)

:twocents:

[Craig]

If this world I'm in is infact a figment of my imagination, then physically where am I really? Am I just a person in an Insane Asylum? Or is it something beyond imagination?

Oh, and Tidus was real. The Fayth dremt him, but he was still real. The Fayth made him real.

[Peegee]

There was no life, no meaning, no perception, no colour, form, gravity, energy. The universe existed for billions of years with nothing to sense it, to give meaning to it. For billions of years there was no morality, no ethics, no semblance, no truth, no fact. Planets swirled around and matter collided with matter ad nauseum until suddenly...

We had sentience, and with sentience comes activity, comes form, meaning, abstraction, survival and death, birth, sickness, hunger. Organisms consumed one another recklessly. Predators attacked prey until their numbers dwindled and predators died. Multi-celled life became organs which melded together to produce gene reproducing machines -- the meaning of life revealed so quickly -- reproduce, bear offspring, die. Next in line, carry on. No end, nothing more. Breed and die off eternally until extinction.

A flicker of activity in a stream of void, and it was all over.

Do we exist? We only get to ask this question because we do. Then we will die, and there will be no life, no meaning, no perception, no colour, form, gravity, energy, no meaning, no morality, no ethics, no semblance, no truth, no fact. Planets swirled around and matter collided with matter ad nauseum until suddenly...

[Halifax Housewife]

there were pies

[Dolentrean]

Life, the universe, everything, this is a concept I have driven myself insane thinking about. There is no real way to prove we exist in the way we perceive existence, the only thing I can believe is that I have some type on reality to me, even if I am not real in the sense we all perceive real, I can feel and I feel my reality, so even if I cease to be, I was real.

my thoughts may not be my own, they may be the random spin-off of someone else’s manifestation of an imaginary mind? Yet to prove or disprove any of this is an impossibility
. "I think Therefore I am" this can be discredited as a ideal with no backing. how do we know our thoughts are real? we don’t... how do we know this world is real? you don’t, How do you know you are real? because you can feel something within you telling you that something real is within you.

the struggle to find what reality is will never be won, we strive for a way to prove we are real and have some significance. well live in your mind, if it is possible that you are created by the thoughts of someone else, is it not possible that your own thoughts give birth to a new mind? a new universe? if this is what it all is, Is in to within the realm of possibility to have your own mind created you? are we all a god to another world? did we crate our own universe? Questions that may be better left unanswered for they are unanswerable.

[krissy]

fao: PG

how do you know atoms don't experience love

[Yuffie514]

great, look what Vivi has got us thinking. thanks a lot V. i'm a personality you can slap, flame, even send death threats to. PM please!

[nik0tine]

how do you know atoms don't experience love That is indeed the most interesting question I have ever heard. What makes it most interesting is this (http://www.whatthebleep.com/crystals/). I wonder if atoms react to emotion?

[Ultima Shadow]

Q: What do we know?

A: Nothing.

:p

[Destai]

This is why people should stop watching the matrix and go outside :rolleyes2

[nik0tine]

This is why people should stop watching the matrix and go outside :rolleyes2
:p

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

^^^^^^^funny






you wont remember this encounter
:shoot:

[SomethingBig]

The question shouldn't be whether or not we exist, but why we exist, although the question of individual existence opens up an entire library of questions in itself. Ex: What if I exist and I'm just subconsciously creating the world as I see it? What if I exist and I'm actually in a coma? It's obvious that I exist, seeing as how I feel and think. But why do I feel? Why do I think?

[shady-kun]

by atechnicallity we only exist in our minds and the minds of those around therefor if they and yourself were to stop beliving then your life would be erraticated by your mind shutting down(but only technically)

[Mr. Graves]

You exist if you can change things and interact with the environment.

So yes.

[ffrinoa8]

before i even played FFX i already came up with the conclusion that we are mearly figments thught up by an individual and no one else exsists until that creator deams it worthy to create someone for yo to interact with....


but i don't believe that anymore....

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

i still do





you wont remember this encounter
:shoot:

[ffrinoa8]

i might not but i also might remeber it....

[Shadow_Wolf 6354]

perhaps wr're getting lulled into a false sense of security.............like this mouse is?http://www.goofyphotos.com/1/tummy.jpg
rofllam



you wont remember this encounter
:shoot: