Can FF truely be concidered a Role Playing game?

[Buccura]

First of, obviously I love Final Fantasy, but can it truely be concidered an RPG? Lets look at the term, Role Playing. Here you take controll of the character and you basically play them like said character was you. Take a game like Neverwinter Nights for example. You create your own character, and you choose the kind of actions the character makes, and you choose what they say, where as in Final Fantasy, its all preset for you and you dont have that much control over the character.

Sure you have full control in battle, but outside of that you really dont have that much control over how they act. Sometimes you are given options on what to say sure, but otherwise everything is set.

Now it has all the gameplay mechanics of an RPG, because it has a battle system. But, does a battle system truely mean a Role Playing game? Because it only controls the battle aspect of the game. Really, there isn't that much Role Playing in the Final Fantasy games.

Again I am NOT spiting Final Fantasy because I love the series to death (Save the horrendous X-2, but I digress), but still this is just something that came to mind.

What are your thoughts?

[Alice]

Well all RPGS have guided storylines in some way, some may give u a bit more room to roam, but no matter what a programmer has to program that in there so its there, you r limited. The first few ffs allowed a bit more choice over character, and ff11 is the mmorpg so theres no arguing those.

As far as the rest, I would say they are roleplaying games... I get so deep into the story and character ans start thinking I am that character, that... well, its just the same ^_^

[DJZen]

To understand what console RPGs ARE, you have to understand what they WERE. The first video game RPGs were based (loosely) on D&D. They didn't have anywhere near as much customizability because the hardware and software couldn't meet the demands of such a complex system. However, even though the system was simplified, the games were still INCREDIBLY hard to play because they were mostly text based.

This is where Enix (yes, ENIX, you ingrates!) stepped into the picture. After playing a game called Wizardry, the general opinion around the office was that it was a fun game, but way too hard to get into. They determined to create an RPG with a graphic interface. The results: Dragon Quest (Dragon Warrior in the US). The results were a mixed bag between Zelda style streamlined gameplay and command driven Wizardry type gameplay. This was revolutionary for its time.

Enter Squaresoft. In a last ditch effort to make a game to save their company, Square released Final Fantasy, which was Dragon Quest only streamlined even further. The awkward command menu was truncated to the A button, and it allowed for multiple party members. However, because of the streamlining, and hardware/space limitations, the formula had strayed pretty far from its path. You remained totally in control of your characters and their actions, but the amount of options for controlling them was CRIPPLED by the fact that at that time, they didn't have the resources to really do that.

The game was a big success, so Square naturally decided to follow up with a sequel. This time around, they tried giving the characters some dialogue to make it act like an RPG. So even though you couldn't control what was being said, SOMETHING was being said by your characters.

This caught on big time, and DQ and FF were pretty much the canonical console RPGs at this point. As developers continued making games, the software and hardware became more advanced, to the point where more cinematic visuals could be used. This of course led to a more cinematic game in general. I'd say the high water mark was Final Fantasy VI, but I could be wrong.

So because the developers chose to advance the graphics more instead of working on making the games more interactive, what we have is essentially the same game as FFI, only with FMVs and summons. FFXI and other MMORPGs are closer to real RPGs, except that nobody roleplays.

Hope that helps :)

[Seraf]

Even though you're progressing through a already made story line and you have no character customization doesn't mean that the Final Fantasy series is not a real RPG. You are indeed taking the role of a character in an unknown universe and you are controlling this character to an extent that you are this character in this world and you're trying to solve the mysteries of it and prevent it from being destroyed.

[Super Christ]

Under that definition, EVERY game is an RPG.

Final Fantasy is definitely an RPG in the video game sense, as DJZen described. If you really want an RPG, then you should learn how to play D&D, GURPS, or something along those lines.

[RedCydranth]

At this point in time, I don't think a true role playing game can be made because of the spontinaity of real roleplaying games like D&D, Vampire and Star Wars RPG. Those games allow for the sudden sponaneous imagination of the DM whereas a computer must follow certain guidelines. Even KOTOR and EQ which are more RPG than any console game has ever been must follow certain guidelines. In all the D&D, Vampire and SW i have played we could do whatever we wanted, whenever. If i didnt like how a merchant was talking, i could conceivably try to kill him. Or if i felt like killing my friends I could. Or if i wanted to poop in the middle of my turn, i was allowed.... i dont think programmers will make a game that allows us to freelance our ideas that freely or there would be utter chaos.

[DJZen]

Well the problem lies in the NPCs. They're very static. to make them more lively you'd have to give them all personalities and emotions that would change to reflect what was happening. Like, imagine one of those dating sims, now imagine that you have to program personalities for every single NPC out there... In a game like D&D things are created when they need to be created. If you could program some sort of formula that generated NPCs, events, and areas when they needed to be created, that would be awesome. Until then, things will remain far too static for it to be a REAL RPG.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

A game to be a true roleplaying game requires a component that most games cannot give: real people actually roleplaying. Thus, what we consider to be an RPG is much as DJzen described.

[RedCydranth]

Under that definition, EVERY game is an RPG.

Not Every Game... Tetris? Hearts? Those are games but there is no role to play other than yourself... which isnt Role Playing... its just playing.

Which brings me on a tangent... If what I say is true, playing yourself isnt role playing, if say... Auron was real, and he were to play FFX would he be role playing???

[DJZen]

Mu.

[Gwelenguchenkus]

This is where Enix (yes, ENIX, you ingrates!) stepped into the picture. After playing a game called Wizardry, the general opinion around the office was that it was a fun game, but way too hard to get into.

From what I understand, the game was Ultima, not Wizardry.

I suppose I could be wrong though.

[DJZen]

In Japan, Dragon Quest was the very first Role Playing Game for a console. Way back in 1986, the only types of RPGs were the Ultima and Wizardry series. But, those games were too complicated for the average Japanese gamer. Three people, a writer, an artist and a composer decided to make a game that would change how games were made and a little bit of Japanese lifestyle too. Dragon Quest is a combined effort of writer Yuji Horii, artist Akira Toriyama, and composer Koichi Sugiyama. The three creators had already been successful with their solo projects and they had no idea how popular this one game would be.

Guess we were both right.

[Gwelenguchenkus]

In Japan, Dragon Quest was the very first Role Playing Game for a console. Way back in 1986, the only types of RPGs were the Ultima and Wizardry series. But, those games were too complicated for the average Japanese gamer. Three people, a writer, an artist and a composer decided to make a game that would change how games were made and a little bit of Japanese lifestyle too. Dragon Quest is a combined effort of writer Yuji Horii, artist Akira Toriyama, and composer Koichi Sugiyama. The three creators had already been successful with their solo projects and they had no idea how popular this one game would be.

Guess we were both right.

Oh, interesting! I guess it was both :greenie:

[Yuffie514]

what happened to my post. i know i put one here yesterday. i posted that FF has and always been an RPG to me. sometimes i feel like some of my posts have disappeared without a trace :confused: .

[eestlinc]

Yuffie, unless you (or someone on staff, or someone else using your logon) has "physically removed" posts, then I doubt you posted it in the first place. But you can PM an admin who can check more thoroughly than I can.

[Gwelenguchenkus]

Well, I think everyone should remember (and I've said this many times)

Dictionaries don't define words, people do. And Final Fantasy is indeed an RPG. Dictionaries simply 'try' to get the best description of a word or phrase(some dictionaries have quite a few small 'phrases' now) as possible, so that people can use it as a reference. But sometimes dictionaries are archaic, and some people use words differently i differet cultures, making different dictionaries.

If 'ain't' became a widely mainstream word that everyone used, it would indeed become a word in the dictionary, which in a sense means that using it doesn't mean it's 'wrong', just that it isn't proper now because it's not really mainstream.
EDIT: actually, Ain't IS in the dictionary, but there is a 'note of controversy'.

Did you know 'Bling-Bling' is in the dictionary? Sad. Where's MY note of controversy?

< /rant >

[Yuffie514]

Yuffie, unless you (or someone on staff, or someone else using your logon) has "physically removed" posts, then I doubt you posted it in the first place. But you can PM an admin who can check more thoroughly than I can.

well, i think it didn't make it due to some technical difficulties or i posted in the wrong thread. ty. me'll check my latest posts, tsk tsk.

[DJZen]

Yes, but if words can mean whatever you want them to mean, communication becomes impossible. If I feel that "F*** YOU!" is a term of endearment, rather than an insult, why shouldn't I just go around shouting it at everyone?

Because it's an expression of dislike, duh, look it up.

RPGs in the traditional sense and console RPGs are different things. I still describe FF as an RPG but there is a footnote.



*Final Fantasy is not actually an RPG, it's just easier to call it that than to say "Console RPG in the popular Final Fantasy vein".

[Gwelenguchenkus]

Yes, but if words can mean whatever you want them to mean, communication becomes impossible. If I feel that "F*** YOU!" is a term of endearment, rather than an insult, why shouldn't I just go around shouting it at everyone?

Because it's an expression of dislike, duh, look it up.

RPGs in the traditional sense and console RPGs are different things. I still describe FF as an RPG but there is a footnote.



*Final Fantasy is not actually an RPG, it's just easier to call it that than to say "Console RPG in the popular Final Fantasy vein".

Words don't really mean whatever you want them to mean. I mean, I can make up a bunch of words right now, but they don't mean anything.

What I really meant to say was that the widely used term "RPG", and then only when referring to console RPGs in general, usually means a lot of things, but basically (like you said) stuff that mimics in certain ways, the Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy series' (moreso dragon quest, because it was the FIRST console 'RPG'). So now people interpret those games as role playing games by majority, which make them role playing games by people's definition, although analysis of the actual phrase compared to the games which they are labeled may make you think otherwise.

Was that confusing enough?

Console RPGs usually, but not always, deal with numbers, stats, and experience, which is funny considering D&D had a few dice and numbers, but for the msot part a lot of it was 'made up' as you go along. Also, Console RPGs typically have a story of some kind that guides you through the game, and you go through trials (like dungeons and such), and everything builds up to a 'final boss'.

Silimarities between Pen and Paper (or even imaginative) RPGs an Console RPGS:

+you play the role as a character/characters
+you go through trials (dungeons/battles etc)
+both have stories which guide you
+you tend to learn skills and magic spells in both varieties
+many pen and paper RPGs have a variety of monsters you can kill (or you can make up your own) just like in console RPGs


not similar

-console RPGs are finite, while pen&paper/imaginative can theoretically last as long as you want
-console RPGs have a high dependance on stats, and are always linear to some extent, while pen&paper/imaginative can go in any direction you want
-console RPGs tend to have a high dependance on stats and experience gain
-several things, while not in ALL console rpgs, don't have anything to do with pen&paper/imaginative RPGs. These include graphics, world map, minigames, etc. The fact that an RPG is on a platform automatically transforms it into a different media.

But think about it. If you were to 'accurately' transfer a pen & paper or imaginative RPG onto a console, how the hell would you do it 'properly'? You can't, really. But in all actuallity, I think the console RPG genre of videogames is more closely related to a pen&paper/imaginative RPG than any of the other videogame genres, even if they are still vastly different.

[Fire_Emblem776]

Under that definition, EVERY game is an RPG.
'
tetris attack

[Ultima Shadow]

Can FF truely be concidered a Role Playing game?
Yes.

[DJZen]

-console RPGs have a high dependance on stats, and are always linear to some extent, while pen&paper/imaginative can go in any direction you want
-console RPGs tend to have a high dependance on stats and experience gain.

What are you talking about? D&D has always been insanely dependant on stats. So have all RPGs. That's basically the only thing that separates it from Cops & Robbers.

[Del Murder]

The FF-style game probably doesn't follow the original definition of RPG, but I think the term has taken on a new meaning since. Whenever I say RPG I refer to a DQ/FF type game. I like 'console RPG', that probably better defines it and FF is indeed the prime example of one.