Black Metal Ist Krieg!

[Crushed Hope]

As a large fan of black metal I felt,"What better way to start my posting of threads off than with a black metal thread."

Now I know what many people think when black metal is mentioned, and it is usually one of four things.

1. I love Living Color. (This amuzes me due to the fact that LC are not even metal)

2. Cradle of filth are amazing, Dani is hawt! (No...Cradle of Filth are not, and never have been black metal. Say it with me, NOT AND NEVER HAVE BEEN BLACK METAL)

3. You Satanist. (Yes, yes I am the biggest Satanist you will ever meet.Until you learn that I find Satanism to be a mostly rediculous concept, except when followed by those who have the heart and soul to do so properly

4. Black Metal Ist Krieg! ( This is when I salute my fellow black metal enthusiast.)

Now, here is where I get to talking about the music ^^, by giving a defintion of black metal.


An extreme evolution of thrash about pushing metal to its audible and lyrical extremes. Guitars are fast and abrasive, often quite minimilistic, and often tremolo picked. Drums are usually fast double bass sections or fast blast beats, usually accompanied by a ride or hi-hat. Vocals are shrieked in a shrill high-pitched tone, and production is often very rough to enhance the atmosphere and abrasiveness of the music. Mayhem, Darkthrone, Gorgorth, Burzum and Kreig are all excellent examples of Pure Black Metal. Some BM bands try to incorporate synths and more electronic atmospherics into their music, these bands are often called "Goth Metal" by BM fans although this is inaccurate, the term "Symphonic Black Metal" is a lot closer to the truth.

There, just to clear things up.

Now onto the bands I like.

Ancient Wisdom
Drudkh
Darkthrone
Deathspell Omega
Hirilorn
Grand Alchemist
Grand Belial's Key
Woods of Ypres
Summoning
Keep of Kalessin
Bathory
Vesperian Sorrow
Nokturnal Mortum
Enslavement of Beauty
Diabolical Masquerade
Emperor
Immortal

So what all do you people think of black metal, which kinds do you prefer, what are your favorite bands, which of the four generalizations are you about it?

[Big D]

4. Black Metal Ist Krieg!"Black metal is war"?

Welcome to the forums:)

I'm not a huge metal fan, but I enjoy a little out of every musical genre.

[jrgen]

I'm not that big a fan of pure black metal. It's often good music, but I like the tweaked forms of the genre more. My absolute favorite black metal band is without a doubt Dornenreich. Their album Her von welken Nächten is genious. Bitter ist's dem Tod zu dienen is great too, but I'm not even sure it could be classified as black metal. Check them out if you want black metal with violins, cellos, acoustic guitars and really unusual vocals.

[Chris]

Jeez... another metal thread. :mad:

[Devourment]

As a large fan of black metal I felt,"What better way to start my posting of threads off than with a black metal thread."

Now I know what many people think when black metal is mentioned, and it is usually one of four things.

1. I love Living Color. (This amuzes me due to the fact that LC are not even metal)

2. Cradle of filth are amazing, Dani is hawt! (No...Cradle of Filth are not, and never have been black metal. Say it with me, NOT AND NEVER HAVE BEEN BLACK METAL)

3. You Satanist. (Yes, yes I am the biggest Satanist you will ever meet.Until you learn that I find Satanism to be a mostly rediculous concept, except when followed by those who have the heart and soul to do so properly

4. Black Metal Ist Krieg! ( This is when I salute my fellow black metal enthusiast.)

Now, here is where I get to talking about the music ^^, by giving a defintion of black metal.


An extreme evolution of thrash about pushing metal to its audible and lyrical extremes. Guitars are fast and abrasive, often quite minimilistic, and often tremolo picked. Drums are usually fast double bass sections or fast blast beats, usually accompanied by a ride or hi-hat. Vocals are shrieked in a shrill high-pitched tone, and production is often very rough to enhance the atmosphere and abrasiveness of the music. Mayhem, Darkthrone, Gorgorth, Burzum and Kreig are all excellent examples of Pure Black Metal. Some BM bands try to incorporate synths and more electronic atmospherics into their music, these bands are often called "Goth Metal" by BM fans although this is inaccurate, the term "Symphonic Black Metal" is a lot closer to the truth.

There, just to clear things up.

Now onto the bands I like.

Ancient Wisdom
Drudkh
Darkthrone
Deathspell Omega
Hirilorn
Grand Alchemist
Grand Belial's Key
Woods of Ypres
Summoning
Keep of Kalessin
Bathory
Vesperian Sorrow
Nokturnal Mortum
Enslavement of Beauty
Diabolical Masquerade
Emperor
Immortal

So what all do you people think of black metal, which kinds do you prefer, what are your favorite bands, which of the four generalizations are you about it? So where would Dimmu Borgir come under all this then?

Symphonic Black Metal?

[Zeldy]

Im huge fan of Cradle of filth whatever music they are.. and i like nightwish too

[Angel_from_hell]

Love Cradle of Filth! :love:

[Zeldy]

I have the Nymphetamine album on my computer, it rocks!
i like Nemessis, Gilded C*nt, Filthy little secerets, Nymphetamine and i like Babylon AD which isnt on it though.

[Pure Strife]

I wonder how much could annoy the threadstarter by saying my favourite black metal band is Children Of Bodom....

I don't like black metal. It's like thrash but over done. Thrash, when done right, is absolutely wonderful, black metal is like someone left thrash in the over too long and a bunch of idiots who hate the fact their parents made them go to church decide to sprinkle on whatever beliefs they think are cool and butcher an awesome genre. Even Death Metal, when done right, can make some awesomely melodic and listenable material. Black metal is just people trying to hard to look cool, be different, and play their instruments. At least from what I've heard :D

[Chzn8r]

I like a good bit of death metal, melodic death metal, and just music in general with prominent usage of death vocals, but I pretty much hate black metal. The whole "raw, in your face, want to kill you" isn't my thing. Definitely don't like the lyrical content either.

[Crushed Hope]

I wonder how much could annoy the threadstarter by saying my favourite black metal band is Children Of Bodom....


Quite alot seeing as they are Power Metal.

Anyways, alot of you are complaining about the production of the music, and well... I suppose it is the fact that you will rarly get Power metal calibur production but there is some that is not kvlt n3kr0 fisher price tape recorder bad.

Alot of the stuff that I listen to is quite good quality, as I am not a huge fan of the bad production.

For people with qualms with bad production production listen to every band on my list besides Keep of Kalessin,Hirilorn, Drudkh's first album, Emperor, and Immortal, maybe Blut Aus Nord as well.

For those of you who dislike the lyrical content, what about it do you not like, the anti-Christian aspects? If so than you should just try something form the French BM scene, like Blut Aus Nord.

And for the person who mentioned Dimmu... their first two albums, For All Tid and Stormblast were good Symphonic Black Metal, anything after those two were Gothic Metal with Black influences.

Jrgen, I will be sure to check out Dornenreich. Sounds just right for me ^^. Black Metal Ist Krieg was an album and song from a BM band called Nargaroth.

[Dreddz]

not another death/heavy/horrible metal thread
Ok, you like it, just look at the other threads
I dont need another thread reminding me on how crap the music is

[Lindy]

Metal must have the most idiotic, nitpicky genre definitions out of any genre of music.

Oh god no, it's not that type of metal, it's THIS type of metal since they play it slightly faster/slower with more/less chords!

Christ, just call it Metal and be done with it, you pedantic little music-goblins.

[Crushed Hope]

not another death/heavy/horrible metal thread
Ok, you like it, just look at the other threads
I dont need another thread reminding me on how crap the music is


Hey, dude. I did not come here to cause any problems. I care here to discuss Black Metal. Not death/heavy/ or horrible. I didn't see any black metal threads so I started one of my own.

Now, I do not go around saying that rap and hip-hop are talentless genres or crappy music. Now why is that?

Aisde from the fact that I do like rap such as Jedi Mind Tricks and Aesop Rock, it is because I can respect the decisions of others and their likes and beliefs. Now I do not know you at all but I would appreciate it if you did not post in threads I make unless you have something constructive to say.

Back on topic.

Does anyone like the band Ulver or not?



Metal must have the most idiotic, nitpicky genre definitions out of any genre of music.

Oh god no, it's not that type of metal, it's THIS type of metal since they play it slightly faster/slower with more/less chords!

Christ, just call it Metal and be done with it, you pedantic little music-goblins.

There is a major flaw in that...and here is why. We do not judge based simply on how fast or how many chords are used.

Infact each genre is very easily discernable from the next. I could never be able to confuse death with black. Doom with power. Heavy with Gothic.

The reasons there are sub-genres as tight as they are is because metal is such an expansive genre in its own right.

I mean I wouldn't want to reccomend someone who likes Sonata Arctica something like Bathory or Necrophagist. Thus we have the sub-genres. So if someone asks for say, power metal (Sonata Arctica,Blind Guardian,Morgana Lefay) I will not give them Death or Black metal.

[Zeldy]

Metal must have the most idiotic, nitpicky genre definitions out of any genre of music.

Oh god no, it's not that type of metal, it's THIS type of metal since they play it slightly faster/slower with more/less chords!

Christ, just call it Metal and be done with it, you pedantic little music-goblins.
even though i like the music i totally agree with you.
So what type of music are cradle of filth? I havn't a clue O_o
I just.. sing along Headbang along! [nah not really..] ....

[Crushed Hope]

even though i like the music i totally agree with you.
So what type of music are cradle of filth? I havn't a clue O_o
I just.. sing along Headbang along! [nah not really..] ....

Cradle of Filth are Gothic metal.

[Lindy]

Really? I'd just plain describe them as awful, since that's about the only accurate description I can see.


Infact each genre is very easily discernable from the next. I could never be able to confuse death with black. Doom with power. Heavy with Gothic.

The reasons there are sub-genres as tight as they are is because metal is such an expansive genre in its own right.

I mean I wouldn't want to reccomend someone who likes Sonata Arctica something like Bathory or Necrophagist. Thus we have the sub-genres. So if someone asks for say, power metal (Sonata Arctica,Blind Guardian,Morgana Lefay) I will not give them Death or Black metal.
Firstly, please, explain how each genre is easily discernable from each other, I'd like a description of each genre and how they differ from others, then I'll believe you.

Secondly, that's pretty shortsighted to decide to not reccomend music to someone simply because it doesn't fit into a tiny little different genre, if Metal is as expansive as you state, then not reccomending "gothic" metal to someone who likes "power" metal would be akin to simply not reccomending a good rock band to someone who likes rap, just assuming that because they like one thing they won't like another.

Music is never mutually exclusive.

[Zeldy]

even though i like the music i totally agree with you.
So what type of music are cradle of filth? I havn't a clue O_o
I just.. sing along Headbang along! [nah not really..] ....

Cradle of Filth are Gothic metal.

Ooh cool, god, ive changed so much this year,can you believe my favourite band used to be 'Blue'? xD
And Dani is hot :fplove:

[Crushed Hope]

Really? I'd just plain describe them as awful, since that's about the only accurate description I can see.


Yes...Cradle of Filth are very awful. Heh. Veeery awful.


Ooh cool, god, ive changed so much this year,can you believe my favourite band used to be 'Blue'? xD

I don't even know who Blue are, but ... they couldn't have been as bad as CoF :D (I really don't care about the fact of you liking them...I just like messing around about them)

Ok here is a description of each genre

Thrash: A combination of old school Hardcore Punk with Classic Heavy Metal, early thrash bands took the two emerging styles merged them added a healthy dose of speed and went from there. One word defines the instruments in thrash "fast", Riffs are sets of fast chords, drums are played in double bass rolls and fast snare reliant blasts, bass is often limited to fast plucking of the top two strings. Vocals are usually intense but clean and lack vibrato. An easy way to identify thrash is an extreme band that doesn’t have Death or Black vocals. Slayer, Testament and Exodus are all good examples.

Black Metal: An extreme evolution of thrash about pushing metal to its audible and lyrical extremes. Guitars are fast and abrasive, often quite minimilistic, and often tremolo picked. Drums are usually fast double bass sections or fast blast beats, usually accompanied by a ride or hi-hat. Vocals are shrieked in a shrill high-pitched tone, and production is often very rough to enhance the atmosphere and abrasiveness of the music. Mayhem, Darkthrone, Gorgorth, Burzum and Kreig are all excellent examples of Pure Black Metal. Some BM bands try to incorporate synths and more electronic atmospherics into their music, these bands are often called "Goth Metal" by BM fans although this is inaccurate, the term "Symphonic Black Metal" is a lot closer to the truth.

Death Metal: The other evolution of Thrash, this branch of bands went in a very different direction with the Thrash prototype, they thickened the guitar tone, inserted a lot of musicianship, morbidity, groove and speed (yes even more). Double bass sections are usually faster, more blasts are used and riffs are usually a lot more technical. However the main thing that sets DM apart is the vocals. Vibrato soaked growls that are projected from the abdomen and shaped with the throat, this is as important part of the music as any of the instruments. Morbid Angel, Cryptopsy, Origin, and Death are all good examples of Death Metal.

Power Metal: A straight evolution of Classic Heavy Metal, through Iron Maiden who despite not being Power themselves were a massive influence on the genre. Power Metal places a high focus on guitar harmonies and melodies, extravagant solos are used often and riffs tend to "gallop" due to the chord progressions used. Vocals are high and soaring, even more so than Progressive Vocals, subject matter is quite often fantasy based. Lost Horizon, Hammerfal and Stratovarius are good examples of this.

Melodic Death Metal: Or "Melo-Death" is a combination of Power Metal structures with those of Death Metal, Maidenesque twin guitar harmonies are used liberally, drums usually contain a certain amount of rhythm and groove, technicality is at a mid to high level and vocals are usually growled, although at a higher pitch than standard Death Metal. In Flames, Soilwork, At The Gates and Arch Enemy are all obvious examples of Melo-Death

Progressive Metal: A combination of the ideals of 70’s/80’s prog bands such as Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin with the distortion, groove, rythym and structure of classic heavy Metal. What came out was a legion of bands led by Dream Theater who featured immense technical ability, numerous time signature and tempo changes, long sweeping instrumental sections. Each song often sounds different from the last due to the fact that they draw influence from all over the place and extravagant solo sections are almost a necessity. Prog has spawned many many genres in which a band has taken a Metal sub-genre and added prog elements to it for example Opeth’s Prog Death, Meshuggah’s Prog Industrial, Symphony X’s Prog Power, Maudlin Of The Well’s Prog Doom or even Mudvayne’s Prog Nu Metal.

Doom Metal: This term has grown to mean "anything that draws influence from the first two Sabbath albums" but I resent that, real doom is painfully slow, depressing music, with long monotonous drones for riffs, simple drums and particularly pained vocals (usually lower than their DM counterparts). Most Doom Metal puts the emphasis more on atmosphere and "feel" of the music, rather than any individual notes or riffs. Examples include Saturnus, While Heaven Wept and Skepticism.

Metalcore: In short: Hardcore + A Metal Genre (Usually Thrash Or Death) Very similar to Hardcore in most respects, but instead of using either overly abstract riffs (The DEP) or simple mosh riffs (Hatebreed), they tend to use much more Thrash or Death influenced guitar work. Metalcore tends not to have the genericore Hardcore vocals and the drumming is more tribal instead of jumping between slow blast beats and rolls. Zao, Johnny Truant, Luddite Clone and Into Eternity are all good examples of the range of sound Metalcore can create.


Secondly, that's pretty shortsighted to decide to not reccomend music to someone simply because it doesn't fit into a tiny little different genre, if Metal is as expansive as you state, then not reccomending "gothic" metal to someone who likes "power" metal would be akin to simply not reccomending a good rock band to someone who likes rap, just assuming that because they like one thing they won't like another.

The reason why I would never reccomend Bathory to someone who likes Sonata Arctica is because the two are extremly different, infact alot of people who like power can not stand death or black, and vice versa. However there are people like me who will listen to alot of metal genres, however the only kind I never really listen to is Gothic so I can't really give you much of a description, however I could give bands who play gothic metal.


Saviour Machine, Penumbra, Tristania, To/Die/For, Farmer Boys, Lacuna Coil.

[jrgen]

Christ, just call it Metal and be done with it, you pedantic little music-goblins.
No, because metal is a genre way to diverse to not have subgenres. I always see these people complaining about the existence of genres. If you don't want to look up the definitions, then don't, but there is no reason to reduce the whole metal scene into one genre, just so that those who are fond of their ignorance won't have anything to not understand.

@gibbi8: This forum is 95% pop/hip-hop/rap/similar crap. What's wrong with creating two threads about two different forms of actual music?

[Zeldy]

I don't even know who Blue are, but ... they couldn't have been as bad as CoF :D (I really don't care about the fact of you liking them...I just like messing around about them)
You dont want to know who Blue are put it this way.. Pop/HipHop?
The way you say that, do you not like COF or something? O_o

[Lindy]

Blue are just a prime example of the one-dimensional pop bands that come and go from day to day, I'd say they were about on par with CoF in disgusting crappiness, only where CoF scream, Blue just...simper.

Oh, and just so you know, I actually quite LIKE Metal, but I just don't care much for the genre-nazis who get all annoyed when you define something wrong, so I just call it Metal.

I like In Flames, I like Opeth (Only Damnation though, the screamy one...err...Redemption? Didn't like that), to me they're Metal, or most of the time I just call it "Music", you know, shockingly you don't have to define everything down into the smallest denominator.

[Crushed Hope]

Blue are just a prime example of the one-dimensional pop bands that come and go from day to day, I'd say they were about on par with CoF in disgusting crappiness, only where CoF scream, Blue just...simper.

Oh, and just so you know, I actually quite LIKE Metal, but I just don't care much for the genre-nazis who get all annoyed when you define something wrong, so I just call it Metal.

I like In Flames, I like Opeth (Only Damnation though, the screamy one...err...Redemption? Didn't like that), to me they're Metal, or most of the time I just call it "Music", you know, shockingly you don't have to define everything down into the smallest denominator.

No...you do not have to but the thing is. It helps avoid confusion for those who care to know each genre. For those who do not know what genre each band is, they get nipped in the ass when they request stuff from me. I end up having someone who only likes stuff like Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath, a reccomendation of Anorexia Nervosa and they hate it.

(Just for your knowledge, In Flames are melodeath, and most recently modern rock. Opeth, are well...many consider them to be Progressive Death metal but in reality they are much closer to being progressive rock, with death metal influences(mainly found in the vocals and occasional metal riff)

I feel that with that above () statement that I have gained a whole legion of enemies.

[Lindy]

On a somewhat alternate note, Metal bands have some of the most amusing names in existance, really, the funnier side being that they pretty much all take themselves seriously, it makes me giggle.

I wonder what the end-result would be if someone actually made a HAPPY metal band.

Then again, I'm sure you'll suddenly pop-up with "Ah, well this band in this genre etc etc" after this.

[jrgen]

There is a huge amount of metal bands who play "happy" music.
Although I don't like happy music, so I don't listen to it.

[Lindy]

Gimme a few names then, I'm intrigued as to how it sounds.

[Crushed Hope]

On a somewhat alternate note, Metal bands have some of the most amusing names in existance, really, the funnier side being that they pretty much all take themselves seriously, it makes me giggle.

I wonder what the end-result would be if someone actually made a HAPPY metal band.

Then again, I'm sure you'll suddenly pop-up with "Ah, well this band in this genre etc etc" after this.

Sonata Artica (Power metal)
Dragonforce(Power metal)
Stratovarius (Power metal)
Falconer(for the most part) (Power metal)
Symphony X (Power metal)

Seemless(Well they write about positivity >.>) (Heavy/Stoner metal)

There are alot of happy metal bands...wether lyrically or musically. Hell, gets someone who listens to no underground power metal bands and they will most likly have mentioned in a ratio of 7/10 more happy bands than not.

[jrgen]

Power Metal is overall a rather happy genre.
You could also listen to "white metal".(which is, btw, not a real genre)
It's all about the joys of loving Jesus.

[Crushed Hope]

Power Metal is overall a rather happy genre.
You could also listen to "white metal".(which is, btw, not a real genre)
It's all about the joys of loving Jesus.
Yeah, power metal does have the tendency to be happy, but bands like Lord Weird Slough Feg are not all happy and stuff.

Saviour Machine, an amazing Christian Gothic metal band. Infact one of the only two Gothic metal bands I listen two.

[Devourment]

Yes...Cradle of Filth are very awful. Heh. Veeery awful.So what about MayheM & the like... they're not awful?

[Moose Knight]

I think Black Metal is crappy. I mean, there's a reason that Bathory only released 4 or so BM albums and then switched over.

Anyway, I like Celtic Frost, and a lot of BM bands seem to think they're awesome, even though I don't hear any connection at all.

Arcturus is cool, but only their later, non-BM albums.

The closest thing to BM I like is Finntroll. I've heard some people calling them BM, but I disagree.

****EDIT: Helloween's probably the happiest metal band. Get an early album like Keeper of the Seven Keys. Annoying vocals, but awesome solos.

[Crushed Hope]

Yes...Cradle of Filth are very awful. Heh. Veeery awful.So what about MayheM & the like... they're not awful?

I love Mayhem's first two albums and most current.


I think Black Metal is crappy. I mean, there's a reason that Bathory only released 4 or so BM albums and then switched over.

Anyway, I like Celtic Frost, and a lot of BM bands seem to think they're awesome, even though I don't hear any connection at all.

Arcturus is cool, but only their later, non-BM albums.

The closest thing to BM I like is Finntroll. I've heard some people calling them BM, but I disagree.

****EDIT: Helloween's probably the happiest metal band. Get an early album like Keeper of the Seven Keys. Annoying vocals, but awesome solos.

Ok. First off, Bathory. The first four albums are just ****ing great. Under The Sign Of The Black Mark \m/

Okay, what do Celtic Frost have to do with Black Metal, they were a thrash/death band but never black metal. Oh and avant-garde but...

Arcturus, everything theyr released are great...especially their later material.

Finntroll, they are folk/black metal. It really isn't about what you consider them to be actually, rather what they play. And well the play folk/black metal. With POLKA INFLUENCES! \M/

As for Helloween being happiest, no. Not a chance. Happiest goes to Dragonforce or Sonata Arctica.

[Pure Strife]

Last I checked with the genre Nazis I know Children Of Bodom were "Power Metal with Harsh Vocals". This is the sort of thing that shows how out of hand all the genre madness can go. Dragonforce are power metal, and I'd say CoB sound fairly different to them, especially on Hate Crew Death Roll (Hatebreeder being my fave CoB album), but do they really need their own sub0sub genre? So even then you're getting genres within genres within genres (more bands will try it now CoB have done it), which is really just daft.

But as for the current list of sub-genres, I'd say they were pretty useful because once you become accustomed to all the different styles they really are quite different. You can't really put Dream Theater next to Opeth (who I despise) because they really do sound very different. I like a bit of Death (Death, Malevolent Creation), Thrash (Megadeth baby, saw them a while back :D), Nu (Deftones) and Prog (Dream Theater). None of these bands sound anything alike, and since there are a <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif">load of other bands out there that you could say have a sound not too far removed from them, that's where all these extra genres come from. So yeah, that's why I don't think all these genres are totally useless, it's just when you get a band like Children Of Bodom that half the metal world goes to war to classify purely because they think it needs to be classified it becomes daft.

And I bet Cradle Of Filth would be classified differently if their guitarists threw in some mad shred solos here and there.

[Crushed Hope]

Hehe. Children of Bodom are power/speed metal. (Vocals do not have anything to do when classifying genres,I just happened to leave the vocal parts in my post because it is what most people can expect from your average band in each genre.)

Dragonforce are power metal, in its worst form but...still power.

Actually, CoF will be Gothic metal until their entire style changes, hella lot of Gothic metal bands use solos, Type O for example.

[Pure Strife]

If Death metal isn't at least a little about the vocals then it really doesn't differ that much from Thrash. Musically it's just a bit faster with more palm muting.

And Dragonforce are great when you get ignoring their singer down to a fine art.

[Crushed Hope]

Not really. I could listen to Wormed,Necrophagist,and Decapitated all day for one day and then the next listen to Exodus,Anthrax, and Kreator.

There is a big difference aside from vocals. I suggest you do that one day and come back to tell me that they are just playing faster and more palm mutes.

It isn't even about the singer in DF, he is meh but ...

Herman Li needs to learn to play more than just solos. I swear, they are the most boring band ever. Nothing but speedy solos and walls upon walls of double bass.

[Dreddz]

Dragonforce
Oh god I wanted you to say Taskforce, but nooo

[Crushed Hope]

Dragonforce
Oh god I wanted you to say Taskforce, but nooo


Dude. Shut up about rap. If you are not to be on topic then shut up.

[Pure Strife]

I don't even know who Taskforce are.

As for Death Metal my experience is primarily with Death and Malevolent Creation, and a little Athiest. I'll take another look into it eventually.

As for Herman Li, I could listen to him soloing all day. I prefer guitarists like Marty Friedman to this newer generation of mad shredders, but I've been playing guitar for a couple years now and I'm slowly but surely getting the hang of shredding at the moment and it's great listening to madly fast stuff like that. I like Dragonforce because it takes the guitar madness and mixes it up a little with some vocal interludes that stop it getting dull like I find Satch and Vai type material does.

And back on the subject of black metal, I don't like it much because it takes the fast, heavy metal and tries to put an atmosphere behind it. Speed and Thrash are great because it's balls out rock and roll, Black Metal just feels like it sucks the liveliness out of it a bit by messing about with a great formula. Meh, each to their own, I could listen to that new Jem single "Just a Ride" and go straight to Megadeth.

And it's nice to have someone into all this metal knocking about here.

[Moose Knight]

Ok. First off, Bathory. The first four albums are just ****ing great. Under The Sign Of The Black Mark \m/

Okay, what do Celtic Frost have to do with Black Metal, they were a thrash/death band but never black metal. Oh and avant-garde but...

Arcturus, everything theyr released are great...especially their later material.

Finntroll, they are folk/black metal. It really isn't about what you consider them to be actually, rather what they play. And well the play folk/black metal. With POLKA INFLUENCES! \M/

As for Helloween being happiest, no. Not a chance. Happiest goes to Dragonforce or Sonata Arctica.

You've never heard Bm bands point to "the mighty Frost" as one of their influences? They do it all the time, that's why I brought it up (or at least I thought they did). I was just mentioning that I hear no similarity between the thrash mastery or avant garde experimentalism of Celtic Frost and the minimalistic static cocaphony (sounds like it was recorded on an answering machine) of most Black Metal, although there apperently is one.

[Chzn8r]

I like this thread. Bow before metal, fools :p Nah, I'm not really an elitist. I just love a hell of a lot of metal.
\m/>_<\m/

Oh yeah, and the sub-genre definitions for Metal really are necessary, as you can take the metal guitar/drum sound and go in a million directions with it. Any given genre of metal (power or black or nu, whatever) hardly ever sounds like another, unless the band intends some sort of stylistic mix.

[The Man]

I've only recently gotten into extreme metal, but I'm glad I did; it's more cathartic than most music. The only Black Metal artists I listen to much at this point are Dimmu Borgir, Bathory (although I'm currently more taken by Blood Fire Death/Hammerheart/Twilight of the Gods/Blood on Ice/Nordland than the strictly black metal stuff, although Under the Sign of the Black Mark owns), and Enslaved; I've also been exposed to Opeth and Edge of Sanity recently in the death-metal category, and it's something else.