ff12 the end? or a new(arguably horrible) beginning?

[Sarkis]

Im not here to bash and hate on ff12 but what i would like to do is collect your thoughts and opinions on the game. personaly i absolutly hate it as it's nothing like final fantasy. Now i wont completly condem the game untill i have played it thats only fare but I have noticed a steep decline in the Quality of the games as well as the fact that each game gets farther and farther away from the old standerds we so love. Im all for inavation but there leteraly treating final fantasy like a lab rat. FF11 while a cool MMORPG that i Do play often is technicly NOT a final fantasy game and I fear ff12 will be even farther from ff. This realy scares me FF is my favorite RPG game seres. I dont want it to die but it's slowly becomeing something completly deferent. The elemination of the random battles has me extremly worryed. Allso the fact that it's set in ivalice and seems to have a bases in ff tactics advanced worrys me. FFTA was ok but it cant touch the origenal.
On top of that i never like Vagrint story and the man behind that game is leading develoupment of ff12 so i have yet more to worry about. Anyway enof about ME lets here what you guys have to say about. Voice your hopes and your fears I want to know what you think but please no flame wars lol.

[TheAbominatrix]

Ivalice is just the world it's set in, it doesnt matter that it's been the setting of TA. (edit: by which I mean, it isnt a continuation of TA by any means. Aside from the names and a few races, it doesnt seem to have anything to do with the Ivalice we've seen in previous games.)

I'm not concerned with it, as I havent played it yet. I wont get my panties in a bunch, as it isnt gonna do any good. I dont see how the quality can look bad... what quality? The graphics look awesome, and really, the only things we can judge now are graphics and character design.

FF has come so far from what it originally was. VII is worlds different from I. It's always evolving, always changing, and someone is always gonna be pissed off about the changes. That's just how it is, really. I'm glad they evolve, instead of making a different story with the same mechanics over and over again, so I'm eager to play XII to see if I like it or not. And if I don't, I don't care much. Life will go on, there's lots of other amazing RPGs out there that dont have the words 'Final Fantasy' in the titles.

[Sarkis]

True But FF games have been the poster child for RPGs for a long time. Now nobody can argue the graphics are bad allthough I could take up a beef about the charicter designs but thats another story. Based On there recent games(ff10 ff10-2 and ff11) I can safly say im not fond of the direction there takeing the games. Thankfully as far as i can tell the EXP systum is back and thats good. Like i said in my above post inovation and new ideas are a good thing but meny gamers play final fantasy for more then just that, meny of us enjoy seeing things we are fermilure with things that are a part of the games and there style. For example Cid and meny of the Summons. When you change things about a games style and not just the game machanics your going to be treding on thin ice with some of the more hardcore fans. Forexample I dont think this game has the clasic overworld map that all the ff games up to 10 had. That anoyed me in 10 but it's not world shatering. However it looks like it's no longer an full RPG and is closer to a MMORPG in the way it plays. You have no control over your party members there contoled by an AI and the battles are in real time. I think this is a very bad mistake since most fans of Final fantasy love RPG's they like turn based combat. Elminating that is IMO takeing away a large part of the games apeal and it's not even out yet. of corse everything remains to be seen untill we actuly play it and thats the point behind this topic. I want the thoughts from the board members about these changes.

[TheAbominatrix]

Okay, it's really hard to address your points as it's just in one big chunk, but I'll do my best.


True But FF games have been the poster child for RPGs for a long time.

In America, sure. But in Japan, this isnt neccesarily true. There are so many good RPGs out there, and good RPG series as well.


Based On there recent games(ff10 ff10-2 and ff11) I can safly say im not fond of the direction there takeing the games.

I wasnt fond of the direction they started taking the games with VII. I was thoroughly annoyed by VIII and IX, but I love X. The series isnt going to be consistantly good in the eyes of everyone. X is a valid complaint, but the major changes are not neccesarily a mainstay. We saw a change of system in VIII with the junction, but we've never seen it again. The overworld map is gone, which isnt at all a problem on the next-gen consoles we'll see soon, when worlds can be built larger. The lack of a world map was very refreshing to me, as it made the games more believable. The only problem was the linearity.

X-2 has to do with the series only that it's a sequel to X. It's like saying that Tactics took the series in a completly different direction, when it obviously didnt. It had no bearing on other games, save for Tactics Advance.

XI, though a numerical successor, is a complete departure in almost every way. That does not make it a mainstay.


Thankfully as far as i can tell the EXP systum is back and thats good. Like i said in my above post inovation and new ideas are a good thing but meny gamers play final fantasy for more then just that, meny of us enjoy seeing things we are fermilure with things that are a part of the games and there style. For example Cid and meny of the Summons. When you change things about a games style and not just the game machanics your going to be treding on thin ice with some of the more hardcore fans.

And how is this different? We don't know we wont be seeing Cid or the summons. How is the style different? You've yet to explain that to me. The battle system is different, but so was FFT's. So was the Junction system. So was the Materia system. Those are all changes, but are they bad? What I'm saying with this is, we're always seeing change... and usually it's interesting and good. So more change could mean more interesting and good things.

I also have a problem with touting the 'hardcore fans' reference. If people were that 'hardcore' with their love of FF, they would follow it without complaint.


ou have no control over your party members there contoled by an AI and the battles are in real time. I think this is a very bad mistake since most fans of Final fantasy love RPG's they like turn based combat.

Actually you do have control over your party members. The AI is in place, but you can switch back and forth between them and control them directly.

I dont see how a combat system can break a game, especially when I havent tried it yet. But if it's that damaging to ya, well that's your deal.

[Sarkis]

As far as the harcore Fans thing goes i said "some" not all.

Your are Correct in japan there are meny meny RPG's that are very good however Im not talking about Japan im only adressing Amarica and Europe and other areas were Final Fantasy has a heavy Influence on the way poeple veiw RPG's.

My complant about not haveing Control over your party is a valid one. you can swich and control then one at a time in live combat but you cannot control them all at once so you dont have total party control. you are only in control of one person at a time.

I am going to Continue to miss the overworld map, much like i am going to miss more of the traditional RPG elements that are fadeing from final fantasy games the turn based combat I hope will return in later games.

Your right we have no garentee we wont see Cid and the summons as well as Chocobos mOg's ect. I was only useing Cid and the Sumons as an example. What they have removed from the game is it's turnbased game play it's overworld map and it's total party control. Allso I know it realy doesent matter to the actual game play but the charicter designs kinda bug me.....alot. the Femal lead is Ok but the male lead i dont even want to get started on. Im not saying every Final Fantasy Hero need to have spiky hair and carry around a masively oversized weapon But i do wish they would not base the haricter design off of a real live pop star. I meen How meny of you guys want to see Britny Spears Summon Bahamut?

Over All Im worryed about the story and gameplay But that cannot be taken into acount at this time since the game is in limbo and we dont even have a estamated release date yet.

Like i said im not trying to bash ff12 but i am voiceing my conserns for it. maybe it will be great and heck if they continue going in this direction or in th direction they whent with ff10 then im sure meny gamers will be happy. I only wish they would leave more of the basic old school elements in tact. Thats not to saw they shouldent try new things but there are plunty of old things i have grown to love and I dont to see the game without. Like the overworld map and turn based combat I keep talking about. Im not trying to say OMG nobody buy ff12 it's going to suck I just wanted to see how other board members felt about what he know so far. The best way to start was to voice my own thoughts. I must admit however that Im rather pleased by this debate were haveing as it's civil and brings to light meny points on both sides. :)

[TheAbominatrix]

I know, I just mean that people use the term 'hardcore fan' far too often. Like "I was a hardcore fan but this game sucked so now I hate the series", which makes me say... well, you must not have been a very big fan to begin with.

And I actually think it would be interesting to see FF go down... just to see what we start getting in America. Because of this lull between XI and XII, a lot of good RPGs have had a chance to shine, which may have been outclassed simply because of the name FF being released nearby it. Now, of course I dont want FF to go, but America and Europe do get a lot of amazing games, and it's time we started taking advantage of it instead of worrying so much about FF.

The lack of mainstays isnt as big a deal to me, I guess that's all it boils down to. The only thing I'm concerned with is the characters and the story, and if those are done well I'll be happy. Mechanics dont matter much to me as long as they arent horrendously done (like in Parasite Eve 2, I couldnt even play that game because of the controls).

I really think its neccesary to try these things and really go out on limbs, given how oversatured the RPG market is becoming. Back in the days of NES and SNES, and heck even PS1, they didnt need to experiment as much because there wasnt as much fierce competition. But we're seeing so many interesting and innovative games on the market now that if FF doesnt start experimenting and expanding, they may get buried by more interesting series (like the Nippon Ichi games, and Mistwalker).

We'll see. Regardless, even if it all goes down, we'll always have our old games to play.

[Sarkis]

I know, I just mean that people use the term 'hardcore fan' far too often. Like "I was a hardcore fan but this game sucked so now I hate the series", which makes me say... well, you must not have been a very big fan to begin with.

And I actually think it would be interesting to see FF go down... just to see what we start getting in America. Because of this lull between XI and XII, a lot of good RPGs have had a chance to shine, which may have been outclassed simply because of the name FF being released nearby it. Now, of course I dont want FF to go, but America and Europe do get a lot of amazing games, and it's time we started taking advantage of it instead of worrying so much about FF.

The lack of mainstays isnt as big a deal to me, I guess that's all it boils down to. The only thing I'm concerned with is the characters and the story, and if those are done well I'll be happy. Mechanics dont matter much to me as long as they arent horrendously done (like in Parasite Eve 2, I couldnt even play that game because of the controls).

I really think its neccesary to try these things and really go out on limbs, given how oversatured the RPG market is becoming. Back in the days of NES and SNES, and heck even PS1, they didnt need to experiment as much because there wasnt as much fierce competition. But we're seeing so many interesting and innovative games on the market now that if FF doesnt start experimenting and expanding, they may get buried by more interesting series (like the Nippon Ichi games, and Mistwalker).

We'll see. Regardless, even if it all goes down, we'll always have our old games to play.


I agree Completly and while I would perfer to see traditional ff elements that I have fallen in love with your right there not absolutly vital but the game does feel like it's something other then ff without them. FFx wasent a bad game it wasent the best but meny fans can say the same about ff7 and even ff6 so that doent realy bother me. I can agree It might be interesting to see FF fall even though it worrys me. I am Sick of things selling simply becouse Square-enix slaps the name Final Fantasy on it, just look at spirits withen. Granted that movie bombed but alot of fans when to see it the opening day only to be disapointed. There are meny games we have never had the joy of playing here in the US and that could be in part due to Final Fantasy's Near Manopoly on the amarican RPG markit. Still If it ever did fall I would miss it. then again your right we do have our old games to play and if the games are truly geting worse and worse then maybe it's better to go out in a blaze of glory then to slowly wither away.

Heck were only just now geting to play Fire emblem and soon will get one of the Atlear Iris games. a Populer RPG in japan for years.

[Wuggly Blight]

My biggest fear is it will be FF10/-2 in drag. I would hate for it to be just the 10 series dressed up as something else. yeah, invoation good for it but there is a limit when you remove everything that makes it a final fantasy.

[Ouch!]

I'm not worried about it at all. So far the only thing I'm sort of concerned about is the form of job system it's using. I'm not particularly keen on characters being able to do everything from being a massive damage dealer and have the most magnificent casting abilities. I've always been a fan of the job system employed in FFT, and FFXI uses a very similar system to that. Seeing as the game looks as though it'll play like an MMORPG, it could employ this situation very well and I'd be very happy with it.

My only real dislike with Final Fantasy games so far is just that. The battle systems in FFVII and FFVIII bothered the heck out of me because you could create godly characters that were mere carbon copies of each other save for their limit breaks. Each character had little to no individual functionality in a party. So far it doesn't look like FFXII will turn to that same sort of system.

I'm liking everything else I've seen of FFXII--though I'll admit I stopped following it a while ago, which doesn't seem to matter because it doesn't sound like there's been any new information--and overall, it just looks like it's going to be a good game.

If anything, I'm happy FFXII is departing from many of the traditional Final Fantasy elements. As far as I'm concerned it still has many of the trademarks of the Final Fantasy genre: moogles, chocobos, airships, etc. It's never been the battle system or other mechanics that have made the Final Fantasy titles what they are, it's been the in-depth and engaging plots and interesting characters. It's too early to judge much of that except to say that I believe the characters look pretty interesting. We'll just have to see about the plot.

I'm still hoping for another playable moogle. <3

[NotQuiteNecessary]

Graphics in FMV look excellent(as we've come to expect), but Ashe looks and (supposedly) acts like Yuna Lite. Vaan seems like a break from the Tidusy hell that was FFX, and Panelo, Fran, and Baltheir seem interesting. I'm also psyched about the battle system, which looks like it could kick ass if the AI is good. Square isn't known for its amazing AI work, however.

Graphics OUTSIDE of FMV however seem extremely jaggy, and the plotline seems a bit too much like FFT's for comfort. Oh well, here's hoping.

[Butz]

I saw the trailer, and I didn't like it.. I dunno but I feel FF is goind down the drain :mad:

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

Well I Liked the other 2 Ivalice games.

I'm Still obsessed with FFT
and I liked FFTA even though i only got 1/4 of the way into it.

Also I'm a Fan of FFXI

People from the FFT and FFXI worlds are working on FFXII so im pritty sure ill love it. The Trailers looked great, i cant wait.

[Craig]

My only real dislike with Final Fantasy games so far is just that. The battle systems in FFVII and FFVIII bothered the heck out of me because you could create godly characters that were mere carbon copies of each other save for their limit breaks. Each character had little to no individual functionality in a party. So far it doesn't look like FFXII will turn to that same sort of system.


If you don't want your characters to be the same, don't make them the same.

As for the comments on the battle system, I don't see the big deal, it's not as if the turn based battle system is some big amazing innovation that everybody loves, its just the normal way of fighting in most RPGs, I'm welcoming the change.

As for Ivalice, I'm glad they are using it, the aspects of Ivalice, such as the different races and the Judges have alot of potential in my eyes, and I'm glad I'll get to see them in full 3D.

[XxSephirothxX]

I think it looks extremely promising. Just based on the medieval-esque fantasy setting, the world, and so on I'm hoping it'll be much better than FFX. It will still be fun, even if it's not as great as some of the past installments.

[Ixion]

Im just curious why everyone keeps saying how they hate the direction of FFX and they hope FF12 is much better. Every site gave it atleast a 9.5 and most of the time a 10 and I think the game is amazing. How is it so different than the other Final Fantasies (I have played 7,8 and 10). I can't find any flaws in it so I'm curiuos to ask you guys why you say it's "not Final Fantasy like" and how it's so bad?

[Cyraniel]

People have complained about how the FF series is "going to Hell" ever since FF7 came out. Half the FF games are considered "un-FFish" or whatever. I find it annoying. Just don't play the damn game when it comes out if you already don't like it. People who condemn games without having even played them just come off as ignorant whiners to me. The FF series has been constantly changing. FF11 has more classic Final Fantasy elements than FF6, it's just online and uses a new battle system. Some people make it sound like FF was built around the ATB system... which it didn't start using until FF4.

[crashNUMBERS]

I dont think there'll ever be a FINAL Final fantasy...

[Mercen-X]

It's never been the battle system or other mechanics that have made the Final Fantasy titles what they are, it's been the in-depth and engaging plots and interesting characters.Exactly.

Some people make it sound like FF was built around the ATB system... which it didn't start using until FF4.Actually, I find the earlier games to play rather slow (due to game mechanics), I can get bored at times, waiting for my characters to attack or waiting to be attacked. I play anyway 'cause I like the stories.

Something I find funny is that some people say the newer fast-paced battle systems make the game too easy or unrealistic. I then calmly reply to them, "What are you, on crack?"
FFX did have an easy battle system, it being that for every character, time stopped so the player could calmly choose which action to take next . . . or walk their dog around the neighborhood.
I know, I just mean that people use the term 'hardcore fan' far too often. Like "I was a hardcore fan but this game sucked so now I hate the series", which makes me say... well, you must not have been a very big fan to begin with.

Because of this lull between XI and XII, a lot of good RPGs have had a chance to shine, which may have been outclassed simply because of the name FF being released nearby it. Now, of course I dont want FF to go, but America and Europe do get a lot of amazing games, and it's time we started taking advantage of it instead of worrying so much about FF.

Mechanics dont matter much to me as long as they arent horrendously done (like in Parasite Eve 2, I couldnt even play that game because of the controls).

we're seeing so many interesting and innovative games on the market now that if FF doesnt start experimenting and expanding, they may get buried by more interesting series (like the Nippon Ichi games, and Mistwalker).
1: Hardcore Final Fan through and through. (Actually, I can't stand how slow the original Tactics is, won't touch TA 'cause the story reminds me of that Castlevania "choose your adventure" book, and I consider console games and online games to be two separate genres altogether. I'd play XI if they made a direct-to-console-only version.)
2: Have you ever played Guardian's Crusade? It's not something you'd spend more than ten dollars for but it is enjoyable. One RPG I despise is Dragon Quarter: Breath of Fire. Simply by walking, you increase your "dragon meter" and if you turn into a dragon, it's game over. WTF!? I've been up 17 floors or so and gotten my meter to 97% just by walking, no dashing or fighting involved, still I haven't reached any conclusion or some place to restart the meter. I've found a few RPGs (let alone any other genres) to contain game mechanics that seem for the most part to be an impossibility. These, I fondly refer to as "WTF" Mechanics.
3: To each his/her/its/their own . . . I played PE2 before I knew what PE was and beat it in a week. The game came off as a Survival/Horror genre but played like an RPG. I thought it was pretty cool. Something weird: At the end, it showed me a list of ALL the items I'd collected and hadn't used, it chucked them in exchange for non-refundable points. The point value was then used to determine my reward. I'm pretty sure it was an item I'd already had. I thought that was lame. I figured if I had collected more, I'd have gotten a better item . . . but, I returned the game to the rental shop and erased my game data (by accident, formatting incident: RPG Maker).

[Lenna]

People have complained about how the FF series is "going to Hell" ever since FF7 came out. Half the FF games are considered "un-FFish" or whatever. I find it annoying. Just don't play the damn game when it comes out if you already don't like it. People who condemn games without having even played them just come off as ignorant whiners to me. The FF series has been constantly changing.

I agree with this. Just because you don't like a game, does not mean the whole world does. Yes games are changing, yes some may lack qualities that many of the others had, isn't that what makes unique? Sure, some of the ff's have unlikeable parts, but doesn't every game?

I personally like every one of the final fantasy's I have played (and that is 1 - 10-2, not necessarily completing them may I add but I have played them at least to mid-game.) I do find some part's in the games are rather mislead, but that's certain parts, not the whole game. A true FF fan must see the games for what advantages there is, an FF fan does not condemn the whole series because one lacks certain qualities. Every FF fan has to admit, that there is at least one point in an ff game, that they actually enjoyed. If you just like the games and are not really much of a fan, then saying an ff game isn't good doesn't damage it's reputation as much.

EVERY FF fan has a different liking to the certain battle skills and story lines that Square come up with, so claiming that one FF is completely rubbish, is hardly relevant. An opinion is an opinion, but arguing over someone saying they like a game. I don't understand.

Everyone is different, everyone see's things differently, many people will love FFXII, many people will despise it, and some will think it's "OK". No one is going to have the same opinion and like EVERYTHING the way the other person does. That'd be creepy. :P

It is not about what is bad about the game, or anything, it's about what captures you into playing it, and keep playing it. If you don't like the game, then why play it? Computer games are there for entertainment. Not boredom. If you don't like a game, don't play it, if you don't like the way things are going in a certain game series, then learn not to buy and play them? because you'll end up moaning all the time. No matter what game or movie etc you have an opinion on someone will always like the game, and if the games liked then what's the problem. It doesn't do any harm.

I see too many people fight about which FF game is the best, and I have constantly seen FF8 being put down by many people. I personally think that the graphics and music in that game are by far brilliant, but the storyline did not stand out as much to me as FF7 did. So whenever the subject comes up I always stay out of it. Because I myself don't really have a favourite FF, I have favourite pieces of each one. But FF7 remains to be the number one in my list (doesn't necessarily mean it's my favourite, it's just the one that I play most) as it was the first one to captivate me into the series as it is.


So yeah! Stop damning FF games!! Square have done a brilliant job in entertaining people up til now, let them carry on entertaining! As there's always someone who will enjoy what they have to offer.

[TheAbominatrix]

It's never been the battle system or other mechanics that have made the Final Fantasy titles what they are, it's been the in-depth and engaging plots and interesting characters.Exactly.

Some people make it sound like FF was built around the ATB system... which it didn't start using until FF4.Actually, I find the earlier games to play rather slow (due to game mechanics), I can get bored at times, waiting for my characters to attack or waiting to be attacked. I play anyway 'cause I like the stories.

Something I find funny is that some people say the newer fast-paced battle systems make the game too easy or unrealistic. I then calmly reply to them, "What are you, on crack?"
FFX did have an easy battle system, it being that for every character, time stopped so the player could calmly choose which action to take next . . . or walk their dog around the neighborhood.
I know, I just mean that people use the term 'hardcore fan' far too often. Like "I was a hardcore fan but this game sucked so now I hate the series", which makes me say... well, you must not have been a very big fan to begin with.

Because of this lull between XI and XII, a lot of good RPGs have had a chance to shine, which may have been outclassed simply because of the name FF being released nearby it. Now, of course I dont want FF to go, but America and Europe do get a lot of amazing games, and it's time we started taking advantage of it instead of worrying so much about FF.

Mechanics dont matter much to me as long as they arent horrendously done (like in Parasite Eve 2, I couldnt even play that game because of the controls).

we're seeing so many interesting and innovative games on the market now that if FF doesnt start experimenting and expanding, they may get buried by more interesting series (like the Nippon Ichi games, and Mistwalker).
1: Hardcore Final Fan through and through. (Actually, I can't stand how slow the original Tactics is, won't touch TA 'cause the story reminds me of that Castlevania "choose your adventure" book, and I consider console games and online games to be two separate genres altogether. I'd play XI if they made a direct-to-console-only version.)
2: Have you ever played Guardian's Crusade? It's not something you'd spend more than ten dollars for but it is enjoyable. One RPG I despise is Dragon Quarter: Breath of Fire. Simply by walking, you increase your "dragon meter" and if you turn into a dragon, it's game over. WTF!? I've been up 17 floors or so and gotten my meter to 97% just by walking, no dashing or fighting involved, still I haven't reached any conclusion or some place to restart the meter. I've found a few RPGs (let alone any other genres) to contain game mechanics that seem for the most part to be an impossibility. These, I fondly refer to as "WTF" Mechanics.
3: To each his/her/its/their own . . . I played PE2 before I knew what PE was and beat it in a week. The game came off as a Survival/Horror genre but played like an RPG. I thought it was pretty cool. Something weird: At the end, it showed me a list of ALL the items I'd collected and hadn't used, it chucked them in exchange for non-refundable points. The point value was then used to determine my reward. I'm pretty sure it was an item I'd already had. I thought that was lame. I figured if I had collected more, I'd have gotten a better item . . . but, I returned the game to the rental shop and erased my game data (by accident, formatting incident: RPG Maker).

1. Sweet. :<3: I feel the same about Tactics. I've only beaten TA because I have the rom and can speed through.
2. I've seen the thread on the game and I was interested to play it, but no I havent. I may try and find it when I get paid.
3. I have no beef with the game itself... it's the mechanics that bugged me. The controls. I was really looking forward to play ing PE2, as I loved PE1, but in PE2 I couldnt get Aya out of the first room and I just got pissed and gave up. The controls were, for me, horrid, so it automatically just annoyed me, but then again I'm an old and crotchety gamer and I dont like these kids screwing up the basic controls xD. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, it was inverted control (up = down, left = right), and that's what drove me insane.

[Heartless]

I dont think there'll ever be a FINAL Final fantasy...
All things have an end. :tongue:

[Lon611]

i won't judge FFXII till i play it, but imho, it seems to be a great game. im very intersted how the plot will turn out, but the only thing that bugs me is Vaan's character design :mad:

[crashNUMBERS]

I dont think there'll ever be a FINAL Final fantasy...
All things have an end. :tongue:
True, But you never know...

[Sarkis]

Im still going to try FF12 i feel it worth at lest trying since Square has allways been good with RPG's but i guess what has me the most worryed is the fact that it will play like ffXI from what i here. THis isent so great MMORPG's are Completly deferent games from RPG's. I play FFXI and I find the way Combat works to be extremly tedeus at times. I allso hate how they force you to party becouse your Charicter is never powerfull enof to Solo but thats another story. As far as Some FF games Like FF7 haveing the problem of every charicter being the same thats simply not true. Yeah you can set up there skills or matera to give them all the same ablitys but each charicters stats are slightly different and there weapons add more to each charicter and to what they can do. They dont all have the same HP and MP even at the same level wth the same Gear. If any FF game had an issue with charicters being exactly the same it's FFX. If you spend the time to Complet the entire Grind with all of the Charicters then they end up allmost exactly the same with the Exception of weapons and a small diference Due to starting stats,but again thats another story for another thread. Im allso worryed about the fact that the guy in charge of FFXII is the one who created Vagrint story. I know thats awsome news to come fans but Personaly i hated the game. Then again I have allways been into the hardcore tradition RPG style of game play and i guess thats a huge facter as to why im so nitpicky about FFXII. It will come out, I will buy it, I will most likely hate it becouse it seems to be following in the path started by X and XI but i can allways hope I'll like it. And it may or may not kill Final fantasy for the Traditional RPG fans. I just hope it doesent end up like another FFX-2. I will cry big girly tears if FFXII kills final fantasy with it's "uniqe" and "fun filled romp" into Offline MMORPG failure. :mad: Inovation=good PLaying mad Scientist and warping the game beyond recagnition=bad.

If you take Dragon warrior and stuff some Moggles a few Chocobos and an Airship inside it wont make it Final fantasy. Final fantasy is allso a style, a standerd and a kind of feel to the games. FF1-7 had it even 2 and 2 sucked. ff8 and ff9 Had plunty of it to even when they were very deferent they were both good and still fall into the group of wich i speak. FF10-11 including 10-2 however lost alot of what im talking about, FFXI even more so. Yes FFXI is a good MMORPG but it's in no way anything like Final fantasy since it's not an RPG and it's story kinda sucks. IMO it should never have been asigned a number, final fantasy Online would have been a better name. FFT has more of that FF feel to it then XI does lol. Not to say FFT doesent count ether but it is a spin off and technicly so is FFXI it falls into the same group as Mystic Quest, and Legend of Mana ect.

And thats it for my little rant i'll just cut it off here since I know Some fans are going to spend at lest 5-10 minits tearing it apart. :p

[Lionx]

You totally lie(not in a bad way XD) when you say FFXI has a bad story. What rank are you? Did you start Zilart and CoP missions? They are totally baddass. The story is deep, you have to persue it among other things and fight with it in your party. You obviously havent went deep enough. FFXI's only real departure is that you arent the main main character anymore, and you share a world with many other people and instead of controlling a party, you control yourself as a single unit in the group and depend on one another for survival. It is still very FFish IMO even though many things adapted to an MMORPG style.

Missions1-9 are introduction. You learn about the world around you and the main characters in the game. Memorable characters that have personality.

Missions afterward are about the nation's darker side and its surrounding areas. Zilart is about the beginning with the Zilart vs the Kuluu and how the Crags and other things came to place. The cutscene for ZM4 is fantastic and totally amazing. The story is definitetly there. CoP is even better however i have yet to touch a promyvion, but from what i seen its hard and its really really great. You need to progress far enough to see it though and from what i see you havent.

BTW what makes things FF anyway? O_o All this talk about new FFs not being FFs..what makes them FF anyway hm?

And to the comment about SE making crappy AI..try taking this boss in FFXI's CoP mission; Heres the tatic:


Omega & Ultima Weapons BC(burning circle aka boss) battle.
This battle take place on an airship with massive airfleet escorting you. the site itself was jaw dropping enough.(also known as the airship armada)

= 1st stage : 5 x Mammet-22 Zeta
They have around 3k HP, as strong as the ones at A01's BC. can't be slept or gravitied. (so therefore you cant sleep the monster to rest or you cant make it walk slower[gravity] to kite around the field)

PLD(Paladin) has to hold 4 of them at once(holding hate is a dynamic system..wont go into it here but its not easy) while rangers kill them off one by one. These monsters will keep changing their jobs which makes their abilities unpredictable. 2hours(limit breaks that can be only used once every two real life hours...they are very powerful but bosses can easily use them over and over) and potions must be preserve at this stage and shouldn't be used.

-= 2nd stage : 1x Omega Weapon.
Can be slowed, paralysed and Bound.

First half it will play defensive. Just like FF5, it can stone you and drain all your status. Second half it will do massive AoE(Area of Effect, in other words hits multiple targets or your entire party) lasers and high damage single target missiles.
Potions still shouldn't be used at this stage.

= Stage 3 : 1x Ultima Weapon
Can be gravitied and bound

The first half it doesn't do much. It has defense up ability, some weak AoE attacks and similar to Omega it can stone a single target. Upon reaching the second half, it will activates it's offensive mode and will be using AoE 800+ damage and single attacks. This is where everyone need to keep their pots and abilities for.

The fun part if that this BC only has time limits of 45 minutes for ALL 3 stages. Which mean you shouldn't spend more than 10 minutes on stage 1 and 2 each to have enough time for Ultima Weapon.
It's fun ;D

The money to prep this battle is enough to make you feel challenge. You guys really need to play more into the game...i hope to be able to take down end-game things to gain the skill to beat CoP missions as those are really REALLY challenging despite you being able to do them at lvl 30 for the first mission(they are considered things for higher end lvled ppl to do because of challenge).

[Sarkis]

You totally lie(not in a bad way XD) when you say FFXI has a bad story. What rank are you? Did you start Zilart and CoP missions? They are totally baddass. The story is deep, you have to persue it among other things and fight with it in your party. You obviously havent went deep enough. FFXI's only real departure is that you arent the main main character anymore, and you share a world with many other people and instead of controlling a party, you control yourself as a single unit in the group and depend on one another for survival. It is still very FFish IMO even though many things adapted to an MMORPG style.

Missions1-9 are introduction. You learn about the world around you and the main characters in the game. Memorable characters that have personality.

Missions afterward are about the nation's darker side and its surrounding areas. Zilart is about the beginning with the Zilart vs the Kuluu and how the Crags and other things came to place. The cutscene for ZM4 is fantastic and totally amazing. The story is definitetly there. CoP is even better however i have yet to touch a promyvion, but from what i seen its hard and its really really great. You need to progress far enough to see it though and from what i see you havent.

BTW what makes things FF anyway? O_o All this talk about new FFs not being FFs..what makes them FF anyway hm?

And to the comment about SE making crappy AI..try taking this boss in FFXI's CoP mission; Heres the tatic:


Omega & Ultima Weapons BC(burning circle aka boss) battle.
This battle take place on an airship with massive airfleet escorting you. the site itself was jaw dropping enough.(also known as the airship armada)

= 1st stage : 5 x Mammet-22 Zeta
They have around 3k HP, as strong as the ones at A01's BC. can't be slept or gravitied. (so therefore you cant sleep the monster to rest or you cant make it walk slower[gravity] to kite around the field)

PLD(Paladin) has to hold 4 of them at once(holding hate is a dynamic system..wont go into it here but its not easy) while rangers kill them off one by one. These monsters will keep changing their jobs which makes their abilities unpredictable. 2hours(limit breaks that can be only used once every two real life hours...they are very powerful but bosses can easily use them over and over) and potions must be preserve at this stage and shouldn't be used.

-= 2nd stage : 1x Omega Weapon.
Can be slowed, paralysed and Bound.

First half it will play defensive. Just like FF5, it can stone you and drain all your status. Second half it will do massive AoE(Area of Effect, in other words hits multiple targets or your entire party) lasers and high damage single target missiles.
Potions still shouldn't be used at this stage.

= Stage 3 : 1x Ultima Weapon
Can be gravitied and bound

The first half it doesn't do much. It has defense up ability, some weak AoE attacks and similar to Omega it can stone a single target. Upon reaching the second half, it will activates it's offensive mode and will be using AoE 800+ damage and single attacks. This is where everyone need to keep their pots and abilities for.

The fun part if that this BC only has time limits of 45 minutes for ALL 3 stages. Which mean you shouldn't spend more than 10 minutes on stage 1 and 2 each to have enough time for Ultima Weapon.
It's fun ;D

The money to prep this battle is enough to make you feel challenge. You guys really need to play more into the game...i hope to be able to take down end-game things to gain the skill to beat CoP missions as those are really REALLY challenging despite you being able to do them at lvl 30 for the first mission(they are considered things for higher end lvled ppl to do because of challenge).


I can see your point about ffXI And no im only about half way into rank 5 Since you need to be nearly max level to get to rank 9. I do hope what you say is true but when i said it had a bad story i ment im comparasin to other final fantasy games. FFXI realy isnt BAD story wise I only ment that becouse it's a MMORPG it's story is a little weaker then the other games. THis is becouse like you said your not the main charicter so events arnt as focused around you.

As to what makes a FF game "Feel" like a FF game thats realy complacated but i'll try my best. ^^

Aside from the great "old School" feel to the origenal games they developed a standerd of story and of fighting that was at the top of the RPG world, at lest here in amarica. THey created a Style that meny fans fell in love with. IMO the recent games have lost not only that oldschool feeling but much of what defind them as final fantasy. What makes a final fantasy a final fantasy is hard to say it's much like trying to discrib old school. it's a feeling in the way you play the game. It's the way the story plays out, it's the Final boss, it's the towns and the style the game is done in. FFXI's story and in some ways FF8's story were to simple IMO. ALlthough FF8's story gets alot more complex later on FF10 lacks plot twists it's all about Yuna and her jerny. Granted Some plot twists are in there for spice but nothing to profound. IM not hateing on 10 by the way im only useing it as an example since so far it's the farthist from what I at lest think of as final fantasy. I floundering about here Discribing this is hard it's more of a feeling like how a sword thats right for you just feels right. Or how a story just seems to fit and as it plays out you get this feeling that you love that makes you want to stay up all night reading. Simply put Final fantsy is pure Magic when it has that Somthing great about it. and sadly the last few havent had it.

[Lionx]

FFXI's story is not simple O_o...well its not as superly deep as offline FFs but its pretty deep and can surprise you a bit once you get into it.

Well the closest i can remember is FFIX being oldschool, and it was a 1/2 hate and love between those that played it...some people dont want that old FF feel...some people want it back...who are they going to please? For me, i just feel innovation is the way to make things new and fresh. I dont see whats wrong with FFXII really...mandragoras <3

[OptimusPrime]

the type of play that Final Fantasy XII is building up seems to be the similar to that of the greatest Squaresoft creation to date, Secret Of Mana, no random battles, AI characters etc. So how can anyone complain at all, i just hope that the AI characters dont get stuck all the time like in Secret of Mana when turning a corner. Those were the days.

[liamo]

i reckon that if it stays the same then it will be stuck in a rut people always want new things so thats square is giving them like when X had a more japanese feel to it than the previous ones which had up to six had with a sort of european feel to it while VII had an anime feel to it VIII was the same then it went to the eurpean fantasy feel again then japanese haven't played XI so i don't know what the feels like. i really do think that XII will be good on no basis at all except that its an rpg series that has survived this long so thats worth my time

[lordblazer]

lol man I rmemebr when I was 8 and I beat 7 and now look 12 lol.MAn this will either be a new era of the FF series or th ebiggest bust inthe FF series.

[Aphelion]

I think FFXII will be very entertaining. I'm expecting a 100-hour play time, lots of side-quests, a good story (not a great one, though) and a solid character development method (leveling-up weapon levels, for example). Trust me: innovation is a MUST in any RPG series.

[Sarkis]

the type of play that Final Fantasy XII is building up seems to be the similar to that of the greatest Squaresoft creation to date, Secret Of Mana, no random battles, AI characters etc. So how can anyone complain at all, i just hope that the AI characters dont get stuck all the time like in Secret of Mana when turning a corner. Those were the days.


I hope that it ends up a good thing. I fermly belive that FF12 stands on the edge this game will be a great sucess or a terrible failure. It's got alot rideing on it and Squar-enix has played with it alot thus far so nbody can say whats going to happen untill it happends. Im glad this topic is serving it's intended function. To bring to light the thoughts of board members regarding this terning point in final fantasy. I truly hope that ff12 shines through and proves to be the best ff to date but i am worryed my fears will be a reality and it will be a terrible game that will only please the gamers who play it simply becouse it says final fantasy. Oh well only time will tell.

[Cyraniel]

FFXI's story is better than a few offline FFs. Really, were games like the first FF and FFIV really that deep or complex for some of you? I understand that most people who "try" FFXI don't think it has a story because it doesn't start until you get to a decent level.

The "FF feel" is just something people use to complain why they think an FF sucks because it isn't exactly like their personal favorite FF. I think most FFs have gone through the "not an FF" slandering.

Everyone talks about how the new oldschool or whatever is like FF9, but I found it a complete mockery. It was like they through a bunch of garbage from older games in hoping some people would buy it just for the nostalgia. Many did, and that's all they get from it.


i reckon that if it stays the same then it will be stuck in a rut people always want new things so thats square is giving them like when X had a more japanese feel to it than the previous ones which had up to six had with a sort of european feel to it while VII had an anime feel to it VIII was the same then it went to the eurpean fantasy feel again then japanese haven't played XI so i don't know what the feels like. i really do think that XII will be good on no basis at all except that its an rpg series that has survived this long so thats worth my time

WTF?

EDIT: I'd also like to add that just like some supporters of the ATB system find the fighting in FF1-3, and 10 to be slow and unrealistic, some people find the ATB to be just the same. Also, what's wrong with FFX-2's battle system? It seems like Active Time Battle at it's climax.

That's just my 2 Gil and 50 GP...

[Mirage]

FFX-2 has the best battle system in any offline Final Fantasy. I'm also a fan of job systems. Those two things are the reason I still play and enjoy FFX-2. Battle mechanics are important for me.

Personally, I think FFXII will be great. As far as I've gathered, you will be able to get better at specific weapons, like in FFXI and FFII. That is a feature I like. It also looks like the battle system will be sort of a one-player version of the FFXI battle system. By that I mean auto attacking until a different command is done, then ordering the party members to use special abilities or protect themselves when needed.

I don't see a problem with fully customizable characters, as long as you can't change them whenever you want. If you look at for example Ragnarok Online and FFX's sphere grid (or even Esper bonuses in FFVI): You can build your characters however you like, but their build is more or less permanent (there are clear spheres, but it takes some time and effort to get enough of those). Another systems I like are job systems. A clearly defined role, but with the possibility to mix it with other jobs (White mage with black magic for offense, knights with the evade of a ninja). I prefer these two systems to materia/junction-like systems, even though I greatly enjoyed those too. It was just a bit silly that you could change a characters build and purpose completely by pressing like 4 buttons. What seems to be the characteristics for these groups are that in the first group, the characters get their strength from their bodies, while in the second, they get their strength from magical items and spiritual beings. I prefer "I'm strong because I train hard" to "I'm strong cause i have 1337 equips".

[trombonepirate23]

Don't forget that its usually the characters and story that makes a game great. At least for me. The only FF's I did not enjoy were the ones that had stupid characters. Basically only FFX-2. I hated the girly popstar princess theme of the game and I refuse to play it more than 15 minutes into it. I've watched my little brother play it and I despise it... Other than that my only complaint for the whole series was FFIX, which wasn't that bad of a game, but the silly stupid characters made it hard to get into.

Think FFVII (cloud, sephiroth), FFVIII (squall, seifer), FFX (seymour, auron), et cetera where the characters were awesome and you got totally into the story. So far FFXII looks to have the same immersing story and the same dark yet cool characters. I preordered mine and I can't wait.

As for the battle systems, they've changed every time. Even if this one is the farthest its ever been- so what? Assume for 10 seconds that the game coming out right now wasn't a FF game at all. You guys wouldn't be b1tching and whining! you'd be like "CRAP WHAT AN AWESOME GAME I CANT WAIT TO GET IT", but because its a FF game, there's a stigma, that it has to be a "certain way" for it to be acceptable and any change to the essential core of the game is highly unwelcome.

Anyways I can't wait. :)

[Lionx]

How does unique and inspiring characters make the game bad? >_> Its ilke Wind Waker but better. Freya was one of the best characters as well as Zidane and Vivi. Totally reminds you of old FFs.

[Sarkis]

I'll agree FF-X2 Did better in the battle area then most ff games did however the story sucked and it was way to short. I did like the dress systum it was a interesting look at the classic ff job systum but im very happy it's not a standered. Besides Not only was Vegnagun corny but way to easy. :p

[Vaprice]

Dear Sarkis,
Hopefully you will respond to this, but you said that FFXI and FFXII is not a Final fantasy game......well then How do you KNOW what a Final fantasy game is?

FFVIII-futuristic FFVII-still semi-futuristic FFIX-related back to the original versions.

How can one define a FF game?

SQUARENIX IS JAPANESE!!!! Which means they're going through his whole faze of "OOO JPOP?!!!! I wanna make a character like Se7en!" Is there something wrong if the main character looks somewhat like a girly man?!?! Nuuuuuu~ I think we should give this game a chance, I expect this to be a good game, a very good game, with a new battle system unlike all the other ones *except for FFXI*

I find this game as well as FFVII: Advent Children FFVII: Dirge of Cerberus and many more of the FF's to be GREATS amoung the gaming industry!!!! rwar!
:love:

[neverforgetthem625]

I don't think anyone should be judging this game before they try it.

I think it will be a great game, and the only thing 'non-FF-ish' about it to me is the lack of random battles and the no-romance storyline. I think the romance aspect of the game between the lead male and female characters made FF a better game to me.

Everyone has their own opinion about FF that will probably change with each FF game you play. I used to think FFIX was the best FF ever made till I played X.

To make an good game, Square Enix has to keep up with every other RPG that's out there constantly changing the market. I mean, how many FF gamers have tried another RPG between FF games? A lot. SO if all they did was add new characters with a new storyline, we would have carbon copies of every single FF.

All in all, just give it a chance before you condemn it. Who knows, you might like it.

[Sarkis]

[QUOTE=Vaprice]Dear Sarkis,
Hopefully you will respond to this, but you said that FFXI and FFXII is not a Final fantasy game......well then How do you KNOW what a Final fantasy game is?

FFVIII-futuristic FFVII-still semi-futuristic FFIX-related back to the original versions.

How can one define a FF game?

SQUARENIX IS JAPANESE!!!! Which means they're going through his whole faze of "OOO JPOP?!!!! I wanna make a character like Se7en!" Is there something wrong if the main character looks somewhat like a girly man?!?! Nuuuuuu~ I think we should give this game a chance, I expect this to be a good game, a very good game, with a new battle system unlike all the other ones *except for FFXI*
QUOTE]


I never said FFXII Wasent Final fantasy i just said that based on what i know about the game it's a step in the wrong direction. Whats the point of an RPG without Random battles? now it's just an action adventure game. I dont realy want to play Devil may cry meets FF. Action adventure is nice But i play Final fantasy becouse it has allways been a great RPG game. Inovation is great i just fear there changeing to much. I blame Enix i personaly feel they shouldent be aloud anyware near Final fantasy they should leave it to Square soft. But im sure enix hs there team working with the FF team to make the next line of games. forgive me if it's a little xenophobic in a way but i dont want there "new ideas" poluting FF's quality. For example no random battles, what the hell is that?

As to it being a japanese franchise and thus suffering from a nasty pop band craze you are correct, i feel thats exactly whats happening. I dont mind Pretty boy heros but this guy........if you will excuse my vulger analogy he looks like some kind of porn star. IMO this charicter has no class, perhaps they will make up for that with a good personality but if hes anything like Tidus you can forgit that.
Lets face it pop stars do not make good models for fantasy hero's.
How meny of you would like to see one of the members of N'Sync swing around a sword and takeing don monsters? it's a comical thought but not a serius one, But i guess thats a more amarican point of veiw and thus completly out of any of our hands.

As to Final fantasy XI not being a FF game well it is and it isent. I never said it wasent Final fantasy I just said it shouldent have a Number it's not an RPG and there for falls into the same area as Final fantasy tactics and mystic quest. Both great games......ok Final fantasy tactics is a great game FF Mystic quest is just and example. :rolleyes2 but thats what i ment. Final fantasy 11 is a MMORPG and is there for a spin off of the Final fantasy games. they gave it a number to sell more copys, not that it realy would have mattered. If they had called it Final fantasy Online it would have sold just as well in amarica at lest. From what i can tell it wasent very well recived in japan when it first came out but since it's been out there for what 2 years now? It's become alot more populer there as well as here and in Europe.

As to Advant Children and Dirge of Cerberus i can only pray they dont mess those up im realy lookinfg forword to them. If they have the origenal FF7 team working on it then we have nothing to worry about But if anybody else is on the job i would save my mony and wait to see what happends. they allready botched one movie, oh the horror of spirits within. :D

[GooeyToast]

I think FF12 is gonna be the fresh new thing that rpg fans everywhere are looking for.

[Croyles]

change is squares motto. they said from the first few games that no new final fantasy will be like the other, ruling out certain typical final fantasy things of course, chocobos and the like. Which i think is much better than recycling the same game play like capcom did with resident evil before 4 came out. I still love those games though! :D

[Rengori]

Capcom and Koei are notorious for recycling games.

[Lionx]

FFXI has a very involving storyline...is FFX not an FF because its turnbased? Or os FFVII not one because it uses the old Speed highest goes first like in FF1? =/ Its still FF as long as it has the name..cept Mystic Quest...that one was just...wtf were you thinking!?

[crashNUMBERS]

I still have high hopes for this game!! What do you think lionx??

[Khaotic]

I have a good feeling about it, something new is always good, pick up on new things, and wont seem repeative.

[Sarkis]

Well there is allways the cance it well end up like Chrono Trigger or somthing. Maybe the story will be so awsome that it will make up for any flaws it might have. I guess only time will tell.

[Croyles]

I think it looks good so far.

[rubicant]

Think about this:

If everybody hates this new one coming out, a couple of people will be fired, and we might be able to go back to ATB or a CTB battle system.

If the battle system of this game is somewhat like Star Ocean's, I might enjoy it, even if the enjoyment is minimal.

I really hope for Final Fantasy XIII we got back to ATB.

[Sarkis]

lol I cant even conseve FFXIII yet, my mind is far to full of FFXII.

Maybe FFXIII will be realy awsome XD.

[soapy_jack23]

I just joined this forum to say my point since I think buddy is right in the way ff12 looks like it might bomb. Have you guy ever played star ocean?(action based with the same kinda idea of how you can use one player or switch to another also done by sqaure enix) It is a good game with a bad fighting system. How about ToS for gamecube? same thing. I play alot of ff11 (bilaal on kajuta server)
and that game has a very weak battle system. Don't try and tell me you like it cause your just lying but it was the only thing square could do. The thing that makes ff11 great is the community. Take that away and its a very boring game (you telling me you like to farm etc? or even build a job to lvl 10? no of course not it doesnt get good till you join a pt) I don't understand the way rpg's are going these days i loved all of the ff so far(except for tactics since i dont like stragedy games like that) but if they take out the battle sytem it will not be original it will be like all the other games coming out these days (with the exception of altier iris) You have to understand that when square try's to change the battle system they usually bomb only 1 game has done it and that was 10 years ago. Maybe i am just getting old lmao but games in general are losing their appeal I am finding myself playing older games via emmulation more and more. Something is missing in this gen of consoles when it went to mainstream and I know alot of people from this forum might be too young to have actually played all the square games before this at the time of thier release but if you did you would see that they peaked with 10 and since then have been going downhill. Tell me one game you loved as much as ff10 that has come out after it? x-2? lmao that was like charlie's angels with ff thrown in as an after thought. Oh and someone said that square is good with IA lmao ever played fullmetal alchemist or samurai legend musashi? Yeah guess you forgot that those are some of thier most recent "masterpeices". No I genuinly think ff12 will bomb kinda like how castlevania did but ill still buy it and try it out. And atb and turn based are pretty much the same thing by the way so no they didnt really change it just made it more challenging.

[Lionx]

I like XI's battle system, does that mean i am lying? The only thing wrong is that if you choose to grind, it gets a little old. But in terms of fighting engine, its one of the better co-op ones out there. Skillchains and Magic Burst along with hate placement is pretty good, and alot of MMOs out there lack a real good one.

All MMOs are boring without friends, however should XI become a single player game, many things would change including that you wont be solo (as in there will be a party for one person to control) and it wouldnt be so hard to aquire Exp and farm and etc. The game was fitting for MMOs, dont compare it to offline ones. Compare it to RO or EQII or WoW, dont compare XI with IX or VII.

Take away the battle system for FF1 and see how fun it is. >_> That makes no sense, or how about taking away the battle system for every game? then they are all boring -_-

FMA could have been better yes, but you cant deny that the story is excellent and thats where most Square games shine including XI.

[soapy_jack23]

Haha i knew someone just had to say they enjoy ff11 battle system to spite me. Man this board has a real thing about saying square made a mistake lmao. FMA was complete garbage. I am sorry and story doesnt make up for it. Its a cartoon you know(a pretty good one) so of course they can just ask the writers of the cartoon to write the story that's not too hard.

You had nothing to say about Samurai legend Musashi of course maybe cause you haven't played it or maybe cause you know it to is complete crap. And the reason you like magic burst is cause you only pull them off if 3 people do it perfectly. Now could you imagine doing it everytime since you know that the computer won"t mess it up?

Hell you can just be the mage and go acordingly to whatever burst it should be. That would make it boring and solo in the game is exactly what it will be like (it is a solo game) The thing is you will be solo because those are just computer players and they will do it all perfectly.

I own WoW and eq2 and even linage 2 also and yes thier battle systems are a bit better but nothing when compared to ff1-10. FF1-10 has a way more enjoyable battle system than 11 thats for sure, Square knows this but had no choice but to adapt the best they could for online play.

The only thing I think that would make this game good is if you could play it with friends via mission servers or give us back an offline battle system. I wait 2 years or so to play ff games for the joys of thier battle system and the story now they are taking half the game from me, I am hoping I am wrong I might be but I have a feeling this is gonna stink gameplay wise.

Considering alot of the people that worked on the other ff games are not around for this one (mistwalker studious is said to have half the old team allready). And also considering thier newer releases that have come out, I have little hope. Maybe this will hurt thier pocket books and they will finaly give fans more consideration on what they want.

And sorry if this sounds like an attack but yes ff11 has a good story line to bad you need to find a group to do said mission(good luck you can find it after you wait in jeuno for 4 hours sending /tells with a couple ls members) and you need to be higher lvl by the time you have gotten to the point where you would have done rnk 10 it would have tooken you half a year with at least 10 hour days.

Face it ff11's story will only be enjoyed by the select few that are dedicated enuff to get to that lvl and I mean dedicated cause once you hit higher lvlvs it takes weeks to lvl and thats if you have a static party. I would say maybe 2 percent of the servers.

Square messed that game up also and that's why everyday they lose more people to WoW and Eq2. Everytime I log on it allways has some new offer to try and get you to come back and bring friends the servers are dead (tried lvling a whm in kahzam lately and no one is online after 2 am on a friday not even jp)

so yes square is making mistakes and no don't vouch for anything that says the words "Final fantasy" or "Square enix" don't belive the hype or be part of it. I will tell you this Mistwalker studio's will most likely own the next gen in terms of rpgs. It is the team that makes a good game not the company. If they lose the team then it's over.

[Lionx]

Haha i knew someone just had to say they enjoy ff11 battle system to spite me. Man this board has a real thing about saying square made a mistake lmao. FMA was complete garbage. I am sorry and story doesnt make up for it. Its a cartoon you know(a pretty good one) so of course they can just ask the writers of the cartoon to write the story that's not too hard.

If my opinion can smite you then i wonder how are you going to deal with everyone else that has different opinions than you. :rolleyes2 You can hate it the battle system for XI, but i find it to be much better than other MMORPGs out there. I personally do not feel they made a mistake with that one. If anything the mistake is making FF Mystic Quest..that one was horrible IMO.

FMA could have been done better. However i still say the anime is very good...i never said the game was.


You had nothing to say about Samurai legend Musashi of course maybe cause you haven't played it or maybe cause you know it to is complete crap. And the reason you like magic burst is cause you only pull them off if 3 people do it perfectly. Now could you imagine doing it everytime since you know that the computer won"t mess it up?

I dont like to comment too much about games i havent played besides maybe the odd whatever rumour or detail i hear from friends and would like more information about it. Thats why i did not comment Samurai Legend of Musashi. =/

Actually Skillchains are rarely done with 3 people..it only works at lower levels, at higher levels two people usually do a skillchain, that and i never really had any computer problems. If you had lag thats your video card's fault, i can still hit just about every skillchain MB there can be as long as i am not casting something else(like a Cure in a bad situation).

That and skillchains arent that hard to do once you know how to. TP Report, you and your partner(which established which SC to do beforehand and is easy to do) have enough TP? Start Weapon Skill, then wait 3 seconds and go again. MB is only to time your cast time. Its not that hard. If its that hard then it wouldnt be worth it to do. However usually at higher levels a SC and MB can take off 50-95% of a monster's life. Excluding lvl 75 merit parties.


Hell you can just be the mage and go acordingly to whatever burst it should be. That would make it boring and solo in the game is exactly what it will be like (it is a solo game) The thing is you will be solo because those are just computer players and they will do it all perfectly.

Again if its an offline single player game, you would control every character and it wouldnt be the battle system it is now. The reason why they use this one is because its an MMO, not a single player one. Have you seen any other game besides FFXII(and FFXII pauses everything when you choose commands) use the same system? No, and theres a reason.


I own WoW and eq2 and even linage 2 also and yes thier battle systems are a bit better but nothing when compared to ff1-10. FF1-10 has a way more enjoyable battle system than 11 thats for sure, Square knows this but had no choice but to adapt the best they could for online play.

WoW to me has very little party dynamics according to my friend. Everyone does what they want, and holding hate although you can, is usually more of a hassle. Alot of people told me its a detriment to party in WoW. Which sort of destroys the point of MMOs IMO because you play with many people...that and it seems too easy to play for an extended ammount of time unless you like PvP and Instances. I cant say for EQII or L2 besides that i heard many accounts of L2 being a war zone and chaos.


The only thing I think that would make this game good is if you could play it with friends via mission servers or give us back an offline battle system. I wait 2 years or so to play ff games for the joys of thier battle system and the story now they are taking half the game from me, I am hoping I am wrong I might be but I have a feeling this is gonna stink gameplay wise.

Cant please everyone. Some people want a differnet system, a different innovative one, and some want the same old thing. Eventually you can only please those that are the majority and push on new concepts as much as you can. So while it might not cater to you or even me, if it caters to enough people, its a winner.

And Fans does not mean only you. Just becuase you are not content with what SE is comming out doesnt mean that everyone else isnt. I am fine with what they are comming out, and even if FFXII sucks, that does not mean FFXIII will. The only way that it will convince me that they suck is a consecutive releases of their games are not up to par and not just to my standards too, to alot of people's. Suck is so subjective as well..=/

Again everyone has different opinions, please dont just tout off what yours is as fact --;

[ughhis]

Yasumi Matsuno
Hitoshi Sakimoto
Akihiko Yoshida

:<3:

Horrible? Hahaha!

Really talented developers, lots of money, loads of development time; GREAT GAME

[soapy_jack23]

Really great animaters, loads of money, long devolopment time = ff spirits within.

Any mb in fff11 is 3 at the least 2 people to do sc and one person to mb, and yes it is easy but not all the time you get them off.
My name is bilaal on kajuta server 70sam/rng (just got nerfed :cry: )
So I know that game very well look me up if your from my server :)

I really hope they do good with this game since it is my fav series but I do have doubts is what I am saying. I am suprised no one shares these doubts at all, then again I am talking to a FF board that is very biased when it comes to square enix.

[ughhis]

Biased?
No thanks.

And the Spirits Within is a movie. Nice point.

I've read about the game and everything seems really great so far. The little snippets of storyline intrigue me and with Matsunos portfolio I'm sure it won't disappoint. I love the character designs I've seen, the music I've heard, and the graphics are gorgeus.

And this isn't Final Fantasy XI; we're at XII now.
They are not going to take XIs battle system and just throw it in XII. They are taking what they really like about online-like battle systems and the parts they love of classic offline FFs. Then they will mix it all up and we'll have a great, yummie meal.

I am surprised how so many people have "doubts" about the game and yabber about

"ZOMG CHANGE LOLBOBS! VAANS A GIRL! XII SUCKS!"

You say Star Oceans battle system sucks which it so does not, then you babble about XIs frickin' skill chains suckin, and they don't, and nothing of that has anything to do with Final Fantasy XII.

And the stuff about how the "feel" of FF is gone... Yuck. Play the old games you love so dearly then. And the "but FF is like this, they're treating my poor doggy like a lab rat". YUCK. Don't dictate what the hell FF is, anyone can make their rabid, emotional connections to the games and get all sad, but that's silly. I love some of the Final Fantasy games. Ok? Am I sad now? The Moogles don't look the same. Gosh. They have a black hottie with bunny ears. Gosh no, that's horrid.

Can someone explain to me why the battle system must suck? It's kinda hard to know with the game not being out yet and all.
I don't "know" if the game will be really great. But everything I've seen points that way, and I, sorry, TRUST the developers a bit. They've given me nice candy several times before. So now I trust/hope (all at the same time ;)) that they'll give me another nice candy.

- END -

[Lionx]

Really great animaters, loads of money, long devolopment time = ff spirits within.

Any mb in fff11 is 3 at the least 2 people to do sc and one person to mb, and yes it is easy but not all the time you get them off.
My name is bilaal on kajuta server 70sam/rng (just got nerfed :cry: )
So I know that game very well look me up if your from my server :)

I really hope they do good with this game since it is my fav series but I do have doubts is what I am saying. I am suprised no one shares these doubts at all, then again I am talking to a FF board that is very biased when it comes to square enix.

Oh yeah the ranged atk nerf sucked, lol it was a little more harsh than it should have been IMO but in the end, we adapt and make the best of it. Least i can throw Darts ok in point blank xD.

I am on midgard so i cant. However most BLMs and RDMs i know get them off well enough. If they dont, and if its not in a bad situation, they suck D: RDMs i can understand not hitting it, but if you get a BLM, for the most part they are supposed to be looking for the skillchain, and then burst and conserve MP for that burst as well. Push for chain 5 & 6.

The reason why i dont share any doubts at the moment is, i never played it, and it looked similar to XI's fighting system with alot of tweaks(good ones for offline play). So i see nothing wrong about it yet. Unless it really shows me that it has some glaring flaws there is no reason to doubt anything. Why only FF and not other RPGs..?

Yeah again if you want old FF style play the old ones. Games along with time evolve into something different. Sometimes good sometimes bad, just learn from it, unless we want a static standstill in the gaming market. Cant please them all, but experimenting and even if it fails, is a step torward a better next game(usually)

[GhandiOwnsYou]

wow...mega super ultra offtopic. jeebus. i'm half wondering why the topic title hasn't been mod-changed to "Arguing about FF XI's Battle system" and moved to that forum...

Anyway, i'm looking forward to it. as much as I disliked the feel of X-2, i loved the DIRECTION they were taking with the battle systems. they were moving so well into faster paced, more active battles through 9, and then with ten they slowed it up a TON, but added strategy times a million. if they can just mesh those two together, both the thought AND the speed we damn well may have the perfect battle system (to me anyway)

So... Here's hoping...

[NeoCracker]

First off, I will adress the Feel some people have talked about. I do believe the games up through nine had a definant feel about them that the others are lacking, but that is not necissarily a bad thing. Ten just offered a different feel then the others, but it was still an alright game. I havn't played it much, but ff11 is fun, and the feel of that game is completely Different.

As for changing the battle system to how they are is my problem. For the most part I don't usually enjoy such battle systems. I liked kingdom hearts however. It is my fear that the gameplay in FF12 Sounds like it my be a little to close the Crystal Chronicles, that game is definatly the worst i have ever bought.

However, I am think square will probably try something diffrent from Chronicles, but i won't know until it gets here. I actually do prefer to be in complete control of my party, though i am still willing to give their new system a try.

One thing i am looking foward to is the addition of the Rabit race from FFTA, and am hoping that some other Races from the Tactics advance game will be included as playable Characters like Banga. I am still hoping to be able to play a moogle in ff12, but im not getting my hopes up.

[Lionx]

Eh the thread turned into an FFXII game thread, to a general SE game thread about how they make their games. o.o

From what i looked at, its a mix of FFXI's system with Crystal Chronicles. See the E3 Demo or something.

[FranXII]

I find Ivalice quite cool. I'll send you guys a post card of me in Ivalice. XD

[true_bacon22]

im confused the game isnt even out yet how can you say you hate it :confused:

[Vincentsinnerdemon]

I agree with sarkis and soapy_jack completely and we dont hate it but we can only hope that it will be good.iv only started playin FFs in december 04 when i got FF1-2 for gba. i loved it so much that i got all the others in the series. when i found 1 that lost my interest i went on and iv donr them all in numerical order and so far iv beat 1,2,4,7,and 8 i almost beat 10 but after i beat yunalesca i started to stop i prefer the RPGs i play to have 2 things: random battle encounters and turn based/ATB for the battle system. 10 had a great battle system (havent played 10-2,Tactics,TA,or magic quest yet though) i really enjoyed that u could switch characters at will but XI has a defective battle system when you compare it to the offline FFs. i liked star oceans battle system to the extent that it had a challenge to it but would i pay $50 (or more) for another one? HECK NO! they dont need to extend the horrible way of finding monsters in XI to the offline games either i WILL buy XII but will i ENJOY it? i dont know...
plus i enjoyed the games up to 10 a little more for the world map. if someone doesnt like it they dont have to but id like to see a world map, a ATB or turn based fighting system, and random battles to return in future FF mastepieces.

[Yuffie514]

I dont think there'll ever be a FINAL Final fantasy...

:goofy: i don't want to be basking and waiting for the end of everything...

[Sarkis]

I agree with sarkis and soapy_jack completely and we dont hate it but we can only hope that it will be good.iv only started playin FFs in december 04 when i got FF1-2 for gba. i loved it so much that i got all the others in the series. when i found 1 that lost my interest i went on and iv donr them all in numerical order and so far iv beat 1,2,4,7,and 8 i almost beat 10 but after i beat yunalesca i started to stop i prefer the RPGs i play to have 2 things: random battle encounters and turn based/ATB for the battle system. 10 had a great battle system (havent played 10-2,Tactics,TA,or magic quest yet though) i really enjoyed that u could switch characters at will but XI has a defective battle system when you compare it to the offline FFs. i liked star oceans battle system to the extent that it had a challenge to it but would i pay $50 (or more) for another one? HECK NO! they dont need to extend the horrible way of finding monsters in XI to the offline games either i WILL buy XII but will i ENJOY it? i dont know...
plus i enjoyed the games up to 10 a little more for the world map. if someone doesnt like it they dont have to but id like to see a world map, a ATB or turn based fighting system, and random battles to return in future FF mastepieces.

A very good point there removeing alot of the classic elements from final fantasy wich will kill it for alot of fans. Im sure it will gain them newer fans of RPG's who dont care about the clasics and would love the way there doing it now but personaly when you lose the clasic elements you lose the soul of the game. I Realy wish they would use an overworld map all of the best RPG's I have played used overworld maps and there was a great deal of fun in useing them. if they MUST get rid of the overworld map the LEST they can do is creat a completly nonliner landscape like In the Zelda games for example. FF 10 had no world map and an extremly liner landscape every werea was cunected on more or less the same path. If there not going to give us an overworld map then make the entire game like a zomed in overworld map at lest then some of the fun of that map will live on. I hope you understand what Im trying to say im finding it hard to give examples.

[kikimm]

Let's not revive old threads. :)