The most important (and maybe the last) theory of mine.

[Future Esthar]

I will try to put it simple.

I-Ultimecia needs to go further in the past to make time compression.
II-She needs Ellone to do that.
III-Obviously she is going to an era before Adel kidnaps Ellone(era A).
IV-People were supposed to feel TC when Adel is defeated by Squall and the others(era B).
Conclusion:
If the previous affirmations were thruth the following is also thruth:
(1)Ulti wanna to compress a range of eras which include era A and era B.

(2)Now let´s suppose Tc is progressive.
(3)Let´say she is starting to compress time and time can pass more or less fast .
(4)Obviously it will pass equally on all eras.

So the compression can be ilustrated as next:

0 ............A.....................B............
t1 .............A.........B...........
t2 ............AB...........
t TC

At instant t time is completely compressed.
If we measure the time at era A and B in the beggining of TC we get the values a and b respectively.
At instant t the values will be a+t and b+t.
At instant t1 ,a+t1 and b+t1.
etc...

If we consider the subinterval [a,b] at instant 0 it will evolve to [a+t,b+t] at t(which is the time it takes for TC to complete).

In the game t is only a few hours (time to reach Ulti´s Castle +time to fight her + little time time left) which is much more little than 17 years.
So time is fully compressed at the range [a+t,b+t].
But I ask you.If two eras were compressed it means TC happened in both.Not just in one of them.
So we conclude that the world of FF8 was already compressed.At least since the time Laguna went to Winhill up to the time Adel was defeated by Squall.
Ultimecia says only she can live in TC.
But she is a villain and villains tell lies.
If she is saying the thruth then she lies when she says she can compress time in the conditions I to IV.
Both affirmations cannot be thruth.Either one is thruth or the other.Not both.
If the world of ff8 is time compressed why it look too normal?
Because TIME COMPRESSION IS NOT CONTINUOUS.IT IS DISCREET(i.e SHE ONLY COMPRESSED A FINITE QUANTITATIVE NUMBER OF ERAS) and distributed over space.This helps to understand why they can survive on it.

So THE WORLD OF FF8 IS ALREADY TIME COMPRESSED.TIME COMPRESSION IS DISCREET AND DISTRIBUTED OVER SPACE.
I call this form of tc WELL ORGANIZED TIME COMPRESSION (WOTC).

[Sir Bahamut]

Am I missing something here? By 'measuring the time at A and B' I assume you're talking about measuring their distance from the 'beginning of time', right?

If so, you can't keep adding the same added time to both of them or they'll never get any closer. It's like if you give them the values 1 and 2, then add 4 to both of them. That would leave you with 5 and 6, meaning they're not in fact any closer, you just shoved them down the line of time.

What exactly am I missing? Or are you not making sense again?

[Future Esthar]

The topic was edited.

Sir Bahamut,I am not talking about distance.

a and b can be for example 1300 and 1600.
During each step of the compression time passes equally on all eras.
Why do you think the dimension along which time compresses is time?
It´s not time .It´s not space.It´s a pseudo-dimension without classification (Time compression dimension or something like that).

[The Anarchy Angel]

That's quite mind boggling, i'm not quite sure what you're aiming for, explain it in really dummy talk

[Sir Bahamut]

But I ask you.If two eras were compressed it means TC happened in both.Not just in one of them.
So we conclude that the world of FF8 was already compressed.At least since the time Laguna went to Winhill up to the time Adel was defeated by Squall.

Well, the range you specify(from Laguna goes to Winhill to Adels defeat) WERE certainly in a compressed state for a certain amount of time, that's true, so that was a correct conclusion.

However, it is not correct to conclude that Time Compression was ever fully completed, simply because if that were the case, we couldn't be playing the game to begin with! So I'd grant you that what you're saying is correct to a certain degree, but your main conclusion is not.


Ultimecia says only she can live in TC.
But she is a villain and villains tell lies.
If she is saying the thruth then she lies when she says she can compress time in the conditions I to IV.

Firstly, it is not Ultimecia who says she can only live in TC, it is Rinoa and Edea, who basically read her mind while being possessed. This is how Edea knows about her entire plan to cast TC to begin with.

Secondly, where is the contradiction between your points 1-4 and the statement that only Ultimecia can live in a fully compressed timeline? Because as far as I can tell, there is nothing contradictory between the two.

By the way, I really don't understand you. On one hand you post nonsense theories in the most extreme sense, but then you came with this thread and manage to actually think of something which is within the limits of reason. Granted, your conclusion is still wrong, but good job anyway.

[Ravenmorghane]

*mind blows up*

[boys from the dwarf]

*mind packed with theorys brain needs to use more power to handle them.brain gets confused shrinks then implodes blowing mine and the guy next to mes head of.*

[thinking of names is hard]

I will try to put it simple.

I-Ultimecia needs to go further in the past to make time compression.
II-She needs Ellone to do that.
III-Obviously she is going to an era before Adel kidnaps Ellone(era A).
IV-People were supposed to feel TC when Adel is defeated by Squall and the others(era B).
Conclusion:
If the previous affirmations were thruth the following is also thruth:
(1)Ulti wanna to compress a range of eras which include era A and era B.

(2)Now let´s suppose Tc is progressive.
(3)Let´say she is starting to compress time and time can pass more or less fast .
(4)Obviously it will pass equally on all eras.

So the compression can be ilustrated as next:

0 ............A.....................B............
t1 .............A.........B...........
t2 ............AB...........
t TC

At instant t time is completely compressed.
If we measure the time at era A and B in the beggining of TC we get the values a and b respectively.
At instant t the values will be a+t and b+t.
At instant t1 ,a+t1 and b+t1.
etc...

If we consider the subinterval [a,b] at instant 0 it will evolve to [a+t,b+t] at t(which is the time it takes for TC to complete).

In the game t is only a few hours (time to reach Ulti´s Castle +time to fight her + little time time left) which is much more little than 17 years.
So time is fully compressed at the range [a+t,b+t].
But I ask you.If two eras were compressed it means TC happened in both.Not just in one of them.
So we conclude that the world of FF8 was already compressed.At least since the time Laguna went to Winhill up to the time Adel was defeated by Squall.
Ultimecia says only she can live in TC.
But she is a villain and villains tell lies.
If she is saying the thruth then she lies when she says she can compress time in the conditions I to IV.
Both affirmations cannot be thruth.Either one is thruth or the other.Not both.
If the world of ff8 is time compressed why it look too normal?
Because TIME COMPRESSION IS NOT CONTINUOUS.IT IS DISCREET(i.e SHE ONLY COMPRESSED A FINITE QUANTITATIVE NUMBER OF ERAS) and distributed over space.This helps to understand why they can survive on it.

So THE WORLD OF FF8 IS ALREADY TIME COMPRESSED.TIME COMPRESSION IS DISCREET AND DISTRIBUTED OVER SPACE.
I call this form of tc WELL ORGANIZED TIME COMPRESSION (WOTC).
Obviously! How long did it take you to work that out...

[Future Esthar]

Simplified:
If all eras will be fully compressed it means that the efect of time compression will be felt on all eras.
For example, let suppose that at 18:30 Squall receives a message which says that time will be compressed at 20:00.
If 20:00 was supposed to be compressed with 18:30 there is a time loop here.
Not only will TC be felt at 20:00 but also at 18:30.It´s an interesting paradox.Think about it.
Not only 20:00 is compressed with 18:30 but also the opposite.

We halve also the question of the progressive compression but in the case of FF8 the error in the time set is minimum.

With this I prove that the world of FF8 was always compressed inside the game.
This has to be true if some of the conditions of the game(Ulti going in a far past to made time compression and it being feeled After Adel is killed,etc...) are really met.
So if my theory is wrong it means one of these conditions was false.
The fact that only Ulti can live in TC contradict my theory.
It means that either this is thruth or that conditions were all thruth.
Not both.

[thinking of names is hard]

What does TC stand for?

[Future Esthar]

TC=Time Compression.

[Sir Bahamut]

If all eras will be fully compressed it means that the efect of time compression will be felt on all eras.
For example, let suppose that at 18:30 Squall receives a message which says that time will be compressed at 20:00.
If 20:00 was supposed to be compressed with 18:30 there is a time loop here.
Not only will TC be felt at 20:00 but also at 18:30.It´s an interesting paradox.Think about it.
Not only 20:00 is compressed with 18:30 but also the opposite.

Yes, it certainly is interesting, and also shows that the effects of TC are not actually seen in every event that is compressed; at least not while TC is incomplete. After all, if the effects were visible at all points that were compressed, we should be witnessing the same kind of crazy stuff we see after Adels defeat even in discs 1 and 2!


With this I prove that the world of FF8 was always compressed inside the game.

Not entirely correct. The events we play in the game ARE inside TC, but only for a finite amount of time. After all, since the spell only lasts from the period of time where Ultimecia casts it till she dies, and never actually fully compresses time in this time, the effects of TC are only felt for a finite amount of time.

So the events in the game aren't always compressed. It would however, be correct to say that they were part of the events that TC managed to begin compressing before the spell was broken. Of course, they might not even be properly compressed for all we know. Perhaps TC never lasted long enough for us to really see proper compression. I guess we'll never know that for sure though...


The fact that only Ulti can live in TC contradict my theory.

Okay, I see what this is about. You're misunderstanding things though. Only Ultimecia can live in a completely compressed world. As explained above, full compression is never completed. Since TC never actually finishes the job, people besides Ultimecia are capable of living in the timespan we see, despite them being effected by TC.

So your theory still holds.

By the way, why ignore my previous post?

[Future Esthar]

But if you remember well TC still holds after Ulti passed her powers to Edea and died.
It was Rinoa who destroyed it.And how do you know time compression finished?.
If TC was WOTC you would never know.WOTC is subtile.

[Faith Chama]

Here's how I see it:
1- Sorceress Ultimecia comes from the future to possess the
sorceresses of the past time. She leaves her body in the future and sends only her consciousness to the past by using a time travel machine called 'Junction Machine Ellone',
But the machine must have a limit and Ultimecia needs to go back further in time to achieve time compression.
what could she do to overcome the limitation of that machine?
Sorceress Ultimecia came to know about Ellone by learning the circumstances behind the invention of "J machine E" and thus, Ellone became Ultimecia's target because only Ellone can take her back further into the past.
2- Squall and the others know about why Ulti is desperately seeking Ellone, thus they must take advantage of Ellone's power.
How you ask? I will tell you about the good guys' plan
a) There are 2 sorceresses in Squall's time. Sorceress Rinoa (Rinoa has Edea's powers). And Sorceress Adel. Of the two, ADEL MUST DIE!!
Why?
Why Adel must die?
Because the good guys are planing to beat Ultimecia at her own "Possessing & Time traveling" game!
you see...If Adel is dead, Ultimecia is left with Rinoa as the only sorceress of this era to possess. And when that happen, Ellone will quickly send Rinoa back to the past with Ultimecia.
Ellone will have to send Rinoa's and Ultimecia's consciousness inside another sorceress she knows in the past(i.e young Edea or young Adel). Once Ultimecia is in the past, she'll use the time compression
then Ellone brings back Rinoa's consciousness to the present. And Ultimecia goes back to her own world on her own. And Squall whith the others will keep moving through the time compression toward the future while fighting against a lot of weak and funny dressed Sorceresses.
Once they are out of the time compression, that will be Ultimecia's world

[Rinoa_Galatea]

my head!! jeez I need some rest!!! nuuu!!!! @_@ very konfusing!!! wªªªªªªªªªª!!!!!!! XD

[Sir Bahamut]

But if you remember well TC still holds after Ulti passed her powers to Edea and died.

Well, let's put it this way:

The spell is broken the moment Ultimecia dies(possibly even after you defeat her in battle), but since it takes time for the line of time to revert back to a normal, uncompressed state, it hangs around for a while even after Ultimecia is dead.


And how do you know time compression finished?.
If TC was WOTC you would never know.WOTC is subtile.

I know time compression never finished because as said many times, it is repeatedly stated that ONLY Ultimecia can live inside time compression. It is mentioned first by Edea(who read Ultimecias mind when possessed) and later on by Rinoa(who did the same thing). They are clearly not lying, and there are no reasons not to believe them, so the conclusion is inevitable: TC never finished.

[Faith Chama]

Y'all must differentiate between the outcome of Ellone's spcial ability,
Junction Machine Ellone and Ultimecia's time compression.

[Sir Bahamut]

Excuse me? Exactly when have the two been confused so far? In fact, the only one who's mentioned Ellones powers so far seems to be yourself =P

[Faith Chama]

That's when someone has concluded thet the world of FF8 was already compressed since the time Laguna went to Winhill up to the time Adel was defeated by Squall.

[Future Esthar]

It´s irrelevant if she finish it or not.
I will show you it will go forever. Even if the magic stops.
Look at the diagram.This time I change the axis of the table.

0 10 20 30 300 (time which passes in TC)


1000 1010 1020 1030 1300
.
.
1300 1310 1320 1330 1600

The compression is read from top to button.

The TC magic lasts for 300 years in this example..

Looking at the first line we see an era that evolves from 1000 to 1300.
However a paradox appears.
There are at least two states of 1300.
One that get´s compressed with later eras till 1600.
And one that get´s compressed to previous eras since 1000.
Behind that there is an infinitude of other states.
This is a paradox because the states were different .

In FF8 TC is supposed to be relative to a unique state of destiny.
So I show it´s impossible to have a FINITE range of times.
Interestingly enough I thought on this theory at this post.I wasn´t expecting it at all.
A secondary interesting side theory.
The demonstration is as simple as to say that an infinite interval remains the same when you add the same number(not zero) to it´s extremes.
However this is not possible with finite intervals.
Knowing this, when you evolve from a time A at the beggining of TC to a time A+300 (the end) it´s like you are teleporting back to the beggining of it at time A+300.Since the line is infinite this will go forever.Also,in an infinite line the compression looks the same at all TC times.

[Sir Bahamut]

Still dont see where anyone's confusing TC effects with Ellones power though...

[Future Esthar]

Nor me.

[Sir Bahamut]

Above post was in response to Faith Charma.

In response to Future Esthar:

You are always talking about events evolving within TC, but don't you see how illogical that is? Events that are compressed don't evolve; the events that evolve from them are either also trapped inside TC or about to become trapped inside TC.

You see, TC is compressing an already completed line of time. In other words, the line of time in FF8 is static, and set in stone, instead of dynamic, and evolving with time. We know this because firstly, Ellone tells us that you can't alter the line of time in any way, and secondly, FF8 is a world ruled by fate(there is only one possible, 'preordained' outcome to any given event).

Granted, if we first make the unfounded and hardly plausible assumption that time is dynamic and constantly evolving, then your theory of events evolving inside TC would hold(but of course be no more than simply a theory). However, even if this were the case there wouldn't be two of any event, such as the year 1300 in your case, and thus no paradox. The year 1300 would 'occur' after 300 years, sure, but at no other time. If you're suggesting it also comes from the year 1600, that would be a fallacy, because time cannot both expand in the forward direction AND the backwards direction at the same time.

Regardless, since there is no paradox, there is no 'proof' that you can't compress a finite amount of Time. But really, despite the fact that I'm sure you can come up with any range of theories that would contradict TC only being partially completed, none of them would be valid, because you're ignoring what the game tells us and making up your own truths.

[Future Esthar]

You are always talking about events evolving within TC, but don't you see how illogical that is? Events that are compressed don't evolve; the events that evolve from them are either also trapped inside TC or about to become trapped inside TC.
That´s what I have been telling.My tables weren´t wrong.

FF8 is a world ruled by fate(there is only one possible, 'preordained' outcome to any given event).
That´s what I mean by "In FF8 TC is supposed to be relative to a unique state of destiny." Because a compression of its world would produce only one state.
This is true.And to me it´s obvious that time evolves inside TC.Since the evolution of an era is caught on TC we need to have an infinite line to avoid the existence of multiple states.You had to prove to me yet that time didn´t evolve in TC

And since the line is infinite the shape of the compression remains the same seen from the referencial of a certain FIXED era.It didn´t depend on the time passed.
If one is inside time compression one would not even note when the spell finishes.It would go forever (the line is infinite).

[Faith Chama]

I have a question to Future Esthar about the notes in post #1
so bear whith me:


I-Ultimecia needs to go further in the past to make time compression.
II-She needs Ellone to do that.

Yes.


III-Obviously she is going to an era before Adel kidnaps Ellone(era A).

yeah, the past.


IV-People were supposed to feel TC when Adel is defeated by Squall and the others (era B).

yep, the present.


Conclusion:
If the previous affirmations were thruth the following is also thruth:
(1)Ulti wanna to compress a range of eras which include era A and era B.

Here comes my question:
what if Ultimecia -after being sent to the past by Ellone- chooses to compress the present time of the 17 years old Squall (era B)
and
the future where she came from (era F).
She might have decided to do that because it's fun for her to watch the chaos from way back in the past. :D
then after that, she goes to her castle to kill the white SeeDs of the future. And then, she waits in her throne room to get her @$$ kicked by the first generation of SeeDs...Squall and his friends.

[Christmas]

[QUOTE=Future Esthar]I will try to put it simple.

I-Ultimecia needs to go further in the past to make time compression.
II-She needs Ellone to do that.
III-Obviously she is going to an era before Adel kidnaps Ellone(era A).
IV-People were supposed to feel TC when Adel is defeated by Squall and the others(era B).
Conclusion:
If the previous affirmations were thruth the following is also thruth:
(1)Ulti wanna to compress a range of eras which include era A and era B.

(2)Now let´s suppose Tc is progressive.
(3)Let´say she is starting to compress time and time can pass more or less fast .
(4)Obviously it will pass equally on all eras.

So the compression can be ilustrated as next:

0 ............A.....................B............
t1 .............A.........B...........
t2 ............AB...........
t TC

At instant t time is completely compressed.
If we measure the time at era A and B in the beggining of TC we get the values a and b respectively.
At instant t the values will be a+t and b+t.
At instant t1 ,a+t1 and b+t1.
etc...

If we consider the subinterval [a,b] at instant 0 it will evolve to [a+t,b+t] at t(which is the time it takes for TC to complete).

In the game t is only a few hours (time to reach Ulti´s Castle +time to fight her + little time time left) which is much more little than 17 years.
So time is fully compressed at the range [a+t,b+t].
But I ask you.If two eras were compressed it means TC happened in both.Not just in one of them.
So we conclude that the world of FF8 was already compressed.At least since the time Laguna went to Winhill up to the time Adel was defeated by Squall.
Ultimecia says only she can live in TC.
But she is a villain and villains tell lies.
If she is saying the thruth then she lies when she says she can compress time in the conditions I to IV.
Both affirmations cannot be thruth.Either one is thruth or the other.Not both.
If the world of ff8 is time compressed why it look too normal?
Because TIME COMPRESSION IS NOT CONTINUOUS.IT IS DISCREET(i.e SHE ONLY COMPRESSED A FINITE QUANTITATIVE NUMBER OF ERAS) and distributed over space.This helps to understand why they can survive on it.

So THE WORLD OF FF8 IS ALREADY TIME COMPRESSED.TIME COMPRESSION IS DISCREET AND DISTRIBUTED OVER SPACE.
I call this form of tc WELL ORGANIZED TIME COMPRESSION (WOTC).

After reading this theory..or theories?...I understand why ppl like FF1...It is classic and most of all..SIMPLE..(with the exception of the 2000 year time loop....)

My FF8 Anaylsis

Villian want power and came up with a wicked plot.
The wicked plot is Time compression.
Time compression will cause serious damage to everything.
Good guys came and kick villian's ass.
Time compression is put to an end and ppl live happily ever after.

THE END

[Sir Bahamut]

That´s what I have been telling.My tables weren´t wrong.

That's not what you've been telling. I was explaining why it doesn't make sense for events to evolve within TC, which is what you were using in your tables to begin with.


.Since the evolution of an era is caught on TC we need to have an infinite line to avoid the existence of multiple states.

An infinite line of time or an infinite TC line? Don't quite follow this...


You had to prove to me yet that time didn´t evolve in TC

We agree about fate and about not being able to alter the line of time(hereby abbreviated LOT), right? That's what you said just now in any case. Now, we also know that time travelling is possible. From this we can conclude that the LOT in FF8 is completely set in stone. In other words, even as we play the game, Ultimecias time exists in the same way(this is why she can come back to the past without us seeing her birth yet). So we have our line of time:

<----------------------------------------->

Now let's label three events on the line of time as A, B and C. B is the immediate event after A and C is the immediate event after B. In other words, if we started viewing the LOT from the point A, we'd see first A, then B and then C. Now imagine A and B are compressed into AB. The event B wouldn't evolve into event C in this compressed state, because it already HAS evolved to the event C. In fact, the LOT started off with all evolution of eras complet(if this were not the case, the LOT could be altered by timetravelling, which is in conflict with what we started off assuming).

Now, I can't literally prove this. However, what I can say is that while your take on things is in direct conflict with several things we are told in the game, my take on things is based entirely on what the game tells us. Since a theory based on FF8 should obviously be based on what the game tells us, your theory is by nature less valid. I mean, I could make up a theory that was completely unrelated to what the game tells us, but that wouldn't in any way make it plausible....


And since the line is infinite the shape of the compression remains the same seen from the referencial of a certain FIXED era.It didn´t depend on the time passed.
If one is inside time compression one would not even note when the spell finishes.It would go forever (the line is infinite).

Why are you assuming that the LOT is infinite? That is an assumption which isn't backed up by the game. Granted, since we aren't told if the line is finite either, it would be best to make theories which aren't dependant on either as being a fact.

[Future Esthar]

Resume of the discussion:

H)-World of FF8 is a world of fate so either:

a)-Time is set in stone and the time range can be finite or infinite .
or
b)-Time moves inside TC which means the range must be infinite.

Both a and b can be valid with H.

You believe in a, i believe in b.

But the game didn´t tells us if the range is finite or infinite.

And if it is infinite both conclusions are possible.

However you seems to misunderstanding what TC is.
You think TC is like a film in which we break all the clips(frames) and superimpose them.
That way the film can´t road because the frames weren´t side by side.

That way not even Ulti can live in TC without stopping because magic can violate the laws of physics but not the laws of logic,mathematics or topology.


You can´t say "I will perfform a magic in which I will be inside USA and outside USA at the same time without creating a duplicate of myself.Even knowing this is impossible(defies laws of logic) it will just work for me and not for you because I am very powerful,much more than you." No.

So there is not any advantage for her since she would become a Tcompressed statue.Didn´t she realize this? Even if she add some "death" properties to the full Time Compression ( and have her death status defense at the maximum value).

People don´t die in full time compression.They become a time compressed statue (since time don´t evolve inside TC)

The only possibility is that time can evolve inside TC and thus the range is infinite.(And so Ulti can live there with Squall and the others even knowing they were in a crazy world.

And I don´t understand you.You first say people can´t feel TC before it is full completed.And then you say they can.Confused.

[Sir Bahamut]

You believe in a, i believe in b.

Fair enough. I merely don't think there is any reasoning behind your conclusion that TC actually ever finished.

As for me misunderstanding TC, no I am not misunderstadning TC. Well, TC isn't a well defined concept to begin with, but the analogy I presented is likely to be a good enough picture. The reason only Ultimecia can live is because she obviously seperated her personal line of time from the universal line of time that was to be compressed. That way she'd be able to live on happily ever after while the rest of time are stuck in TC. In this way, logic, mathematics or topology are not violated by Ultimecia creating some sort of duplicate as you think I was suggesting.

Moving on, I never said anyone dies though, so I don't know where that's from. I'd agree that a good picture might be 'statues froze in time'.

By the way, you start off your post saying you believe time evolves within TC, but you end it by saying time DOESN'T evolve in TC. =P
Such behaviour would defy logic, as you can't both believe something and disbelieve it at once ;)


And I don´t understand you.You first say people can´t feel TC before it is full completed.And then you say they can.Confused.

You must have misread something. The only time we ever see the effects of TC are at Adels defeat and in Ultimecias battle. Explaining why we see effects here, but not in any events prior to Adels defeat or before the battle with Ultimecia(ie. when you're running around in the castle) is tricky, and could have many possible answers. But what we can definitely conclude is that:

* TC effects are not fealt in all events that are compressed, at least not while the spell is unfinished.

In other words, the events prior to Adels defeat might start seeing effects if TC were allowed to finish it's job, but we'll never know, scine it never does. I guess I should have made that clearer.

[Future Esthar]

I just said that if time don´t evolve in TC then people will become a compressed statue at the end.(don´t have two opposite opinions at the same time).


In other words, the events prior to Adels defeat might start seeing effects if TC were allowed to finish it's job, but we'll never know, scine it never does. I guess I should have made that clearer.

That didn´t makes sense at all.
Why would people just feel TC during that scene when time is not full compressed and then feel it at all times when TC is finished.

Following that logic TC could start to be felt at any time and then get back to normal when Ulti is defeated(And feel it all times if TC reaches completion).

You know,if TC can be feel before TC is completed then for symetrical reasons it should be felt at all times in the range.

To say that TC begins to be feeled at an instant and then at all times is to say that there is a time decompression,not a compression.

You can´t confuse the dimension of the time evolving in TC with the dimension of time flowing in FF8.They were different.
You can´t say "One day A Ulti decided to compress time,it lasts 1 day but was not completed at all.The range was between h<A and f>A and f-A>1 day.
And then since it didn´t complete the efect is only feeled in the range [A,A+1].
That is confusing the normal flow of time with the time passing inside TC.

The reason only Ultimecia can live is because she obviously seperated her personal line of time from the universal line of time that was to be compressed. That way she'd be able to live on happily ever after while the rest of time are stuck in TC.

What´s the advantage of living in a little "bubble" of time not compressed and rule over a complete crazy freezed world?
By the way,the only way to rule the world was to send her consciousness into the TCssed layer but then she would be inside a frozen person.
Strange thing to do for entertainment.

[Sir Bahamut]

You know,if TC can be feel before TC is completed then for symetrical reasons it should be felt at all times in the range.

You may think it "should" be that way, but we know that it isn't. After all, we see all sorts of effects at Adels defeat, yet we don't see any effects in events prior to that, despite those events obviously being 'sucked into' TC.

So you can't say that I am not making sense here. I am merely pointing out what the game shows us. Since the rest of your arguments here forget this, I won't comment directly on them.


What´s the advantage of living in a little "bubble" of time not compressed and rule over a complete crazy freezed world?

Well, Ultimecia seems pretty damn crazy to me, so there might not be much logic behind her decision. But one common idea is that she'd have the power to 'edit' the compressed time in to a line of time which contains her as the everlasting ruler, or something like that.

Anyway, this'll be my last post for a few days, due to holiday.

[Future Esthar]

Just tell me how to post an image using [IMG]?
And when you come back?

[ThePheonix]

Here is the way I believe that it was supposedly happening:

-Ultimicia lives in “the future” as in not a single point in time like the normal plot line of FF8, but spread across the section of time since her coming to power/ creation, or whatever… So she can survive states of time different than those that other characters are accustomed to.

-For some reason, she needs to go back just slightly outside the capability of the machine, so she needs Ellone to do it for her, who’s time magic is farther-reaching.

-This is not actual ‘time travel’, but a way of sending one’s consciousness to influence people’s actions in the past.

-On several occasions, she tries getting hold of Ellone through use of Edea and Rinoa (she must be tied to their sorceress powers-perhaps she inherits them in the future, and is therefore ‘familiar’ with them, allowing her to use the machine to control them)

-She only succeeds when Laguna and the others’ plan is put to action, and Ellone send Ultimicia to the time she needs to be to cast her magic.

-Now, Ultimicia begins ‘pulling’ the time towards her, so that the events further in time would compress before the events further back.

-She reaches the time when the game is currently at (i.e. Beginning of disk 4, after Rinoa is brought back from the past by Ellone.)

-This transfers Squall and party to Ultimicia, as she has ‘pulled’ their time to her own period with time compression.

-Time is not compressed further because Ultimicia is defeated in her own time, which back in their time (i.e. Beginning of disk 4, after Rinoa is brought back from the past by Ellone) would seem to have taken no time at all, since it is the time they return to in the game when time compression reverses.

-Therefore any events before that time in that world were not affected by time compression, and everything returned to how it was before in the time that was compressed (people who did not survive compression, etc.), which they evidently began to live after time decompression.

-Ultimicia did not compress her own period of time before she was defeated, and therefore she stayed that way.

-When Ultimicia gave up her powers to Edea in the past, she was giving up powers that she already inherited from her through a long chain of successors throughout time, so that changed nothing.

[Levian]

This thread explains everything. (http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58177)

[Christmas]

This thread explains everything. (http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58177)

At least yours have a decent of humour but this...It is like having Kefka to convince the world that he is a GOOD guy.

[Future Esthar]

ThePhoenix,your explanation have flaws.
If Ulti,like you say compress time beggining on the further time through the present and into her time then TC must be feeled during the entire game.To say that it wasn´t because she just started TC at the fourth disc and ended when she died is mixing the normal flow of time with the time interval the magic is activated.They aren´t the same.You know,if that were true then we would have multiple states of destiny.
But Sir Bahamut said that time must be set in stone.
This is stated in the game when Ellone says one can´t change the past.
You would then have in an instant TC feeled at all eras and later TC feeled only at the 4rt disc(and not feeled previous to it) which makes no sense .

[ThePheonix]

remember that TC is a magic created by Ultimicia to serve her own precise purpose, so it does not necessarily have to abide by any laws of physics.

Let me explain with a diagram:
The way that time compression could have happened and not felt (experienced) before events on disk 4...

-let E0 represent events before the time Ultimicia traveled (With Ellone's help)

-let the events of disk 1, 2, 3, and the start of 4 (just before TC) be represented by E1, E2, E3, and E4 respectively.

-let Ea represent the moment in disk 4 when time compression 'starts'

-let Ex represent Ultimicia's time

so normally:

E0.....E1...E2...E3...E4.Ea..........Ex

when time compression begins: (i.e. when Ultimicia casts TC)

E0.....E1...E2...E3...E4.Ea......... Ex
E0.....E1...E2...E3...E4.Ea....... . Ex
E0.....E1...E2...E3...E4.Ea..... . . Ex
So Ultimicia stretches the time towards her and then onto her time.
so eventually

E0.....E1...E2...E3...E4.Ea Ex
such that a connection is created between her time and that of Ea

During this moment, Squall and party are pulled through the link and defeat Ultimicia, and as it all happens in the time of moment Ea, time preceding that moment does not experience TC.

Now the reason why the Squall & party from say...2 days ahead in time of Ea did not go ahead and defeat Ultimicia I cannot clearly explain, unless the section of time being compressed actually begins with Ea and ends after E0 (the time Ultimicia traveled to) and that time is warped onto her own time, leaving everything else intact...
something like this:

..........
E0 .....E1...E2...E3...E4.Ea --> Ex

[Future Esthar]

If you are saying that the compression range goes from Ea to Ex only then things are different and I start to agree with you.
Don´t know if Sir Bahamut will agree with your view on TC though.

[Faith Chama]

ThePheonix:
when I read your analysis of time compression, I had to agree that
you roCk!!! :cool:

[ThePheonix]

Well, this view of it explains almost everything (if not everything) that happens and how it happens, so it should be quite simple to agree with...

Tell me if I missed anything, and I'll try to explain it.

[Future Esthar]

I use Bink tools to se the FMV´s in the game.
In the Time Compression FMV we see bubbles.These bubbles refer only to the parade events.
Which means the parade was also in the range of TC.
So the range cannot be just [Ea Ex]

I don´t understand your last explanation.Please try to explain better.

[ThePheonix]

The bubbles may not be actual chunks of the real events of the parade, but may have been created by a sort of memoria-type experience allowing events from the characters' and/or Ultimicia's memories to be seen as somewhat-realistic-looking fragments.

For the
..........
E0 .....E1...E2...E3...E4.Ea --> Ex

I was just saying that TC may not have actually included Ea-Ex, but was only supposed to compress E0-Ea, but as it was stopped at Ea, the preceding events were not compressed, and only Ea was compressed with Ex, through some sort of wormhole type phenomenon (part of the magic), therefore leaving the future Squall & party from experiencing TC in their time.(because otherwise they would have been the first to defeat Ultimicia)