A very important subtle poll

[Future Esthar]

A question that help us seeing FF8 differently

[Christmas]

Every country will know Seifer isn't dead since the parade should have broadcast to the world.

So, what's your point...

[Xaven]

A question that help us seeing FF8 differently

I'm fine with the way I see it now, thank you.

[MoonZapdos]

1st Option

[crazybayman]

Question: Does anyone besides those from Balamb Garden even care if Seifer is dead? Is he supposed to be well known before becoming ths Sorceress' Knight?

[MoonZapdos]

Nice point.

[Chris]

I'm not sure how to respond! :spin:

[Christmas]

Question: Does anyone besides those from Balamb Garden even care if Seifer is dead? Is he supposed to be well known before becoming ths Sorceress' Knight?

People should more or less know him through the TV when he hold the president hostage and it should be enough to make him popular overnight.

[MoonZapdos]

Let's just say Seifer's an @$$|-|0|_3.

[boys from the dwarf]

hes reformed at the end anyway.also of course everyone knows hes alive.why wouldnt they?

[Future Esthar]

Let me help you to decide it.
1-Seifer atacked the president.
2-The president says he would crush garden if somerhing happens to him.
3-The president present´s the sorceress as an ambassador.
3-All of this was broadcasted.
4-Therefore people knows the guy who attacks the president.
5-Galbadia gives a message to GG saying Seifer was executed.

So now is up to you.

[XxSephirothxX]

I'm sure there was some poor sap who didn't have a TV and thus couldn't see the broadcast, thereby dooming the entire world. Yes DOOM!

[rubah]

I doubt they even care in Winhill. And what about trabia or shumiland? They probably don't care either.

Did they even televise the sorceress' parade? the only television anyone watched as far as I know was the president's spiel in Timber. Because timber has the only television station still in operation. I don't remember there ever being one in deling:o

(of course I couldn't remember the exact sequence of events between discs 1 and 2, so I voted for the wrong one xD but I gotta defend it now!)

[Winter Nights]

A question that help us seeing FF8 differently

I'm fine with the way I see it now, thank you.

[Future Esthar]

Did they even televise the sorceress' parade? the only television anyone watched as far as I know was the president's spiel in Timber. Because timber has the only television station still in operation. I don't remember there ever being one in deling:o
Exactly.Thanks rubah,I was going to give up of this poll until you appear.
I don´t remember to see cameras at the parade.
As opposed as you may think it was never intended for people outside Galbadia to see the parade.If they were to broadcast it then why don´t let people go there physically?
Why stop the trains and put soldiers at the boundaries?To protect Galbadia? But during the rest of the game the soldiers weren´t there.

[Winter Nights]

I'm still lost on why it matters.

[Future Esthar]

Matters more than you think.

[Winter Nights]

Only to you.

[Christmas]

I dun see any point in this thread...

Just what do you want to say?

So what if Seifer is dead or not, how do it help us see differently?

[Future Esthar]

let´s discuss it and then I tell you why it matters.

[Christmas]

Did they even televise the sorceress' parade? the only television anyone watched as far as I know was the president's spiel in Timber. Because timber has the only television station still in operation. I don't remember there ever being one in deling:o

I pretty sure others ppl own TV but can't use them thanks to Adel. Look at this, if the TV is only avaliable in Timber and only ppl in Timber can see the president's speech, why would the Galbadian put in effort to attack Dollet and take over the communication tower so that radio wave can be use.It will be way easier to put it in the newspaper.



I don´t remember to see cameras at the parade.
As opposed as you may think it was never intended for people outside Galbadia to see the parade.

If the parade is only intended for the Galbadian, why would the president took in effort to announce to the whole world through TV to have Edea as the ambassador but kept the parade a secret. Most likely it is meant to be open public so that the whole world can see the ambassador's glory.



If they were to broadcast it then why don´t let people go there physically?

Let say during a live world cup soccer match, ppl over the world can see the broadcast but there is still tons of ppl dying to go to the stadium to see the match live in action. You get what I mean?



Why stop the trains and put soldiers at the boundaries?To protect Galbadia? But during the rest of the game the soldiers weren´t there.

It is pretty obvious. If President Bush decide to go visit Iraq, do you think they will send soldiers to protect vital checkpoints? The same logic applies. When there is a major event concerning a important personnel, security will tend to be tight.

[Future Esthar]

If the parade is only intended for the Galbadian, why would the president took in effort to announce to the whole world through TV to have Edea as the ambassador but kept the parade a secret. Most likely it is meant to be open public so that the whole world can see the ambassador's glory.

If I remember well,the president was going to present the ambassador AT THE TIMBER TV STATION.Edea was about to talk in TV when Mr Seifer decides to appear.
The president didn´t mentions a parade either.


#21


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Originally Posted by Future Esthar:
If they were to broadcast it then why don´t let people go there physically?








Let say during a live world cup soccer match, ppl over the world can see the broadcast but there is still tons of ppl dying to go to the stadium to see the match live in action. You get what I mean?

You don´t understand this question.
Of course all people weren´t supposed to be at the parade.
The question was,why force outsiders to stay out and then let them see it through TV?


It is pretty obvious. If President Bush decide to go visit Iraq, do you think they will send soldiers to protect vital checkpoints? The same logic applies. When there is a major event concerning a important personnel, security will tend to be tight.

Soldiers at the boundaries don´t let you pass.They don´t know Squall was a SeeD.
Following that logic no one can pass.

But shouldn´t they let outsiders to the parade if it was meant for it to be broadcast around the world?

[Christmas]

If I remember well,the president was going to present the ambassador AT THE TIMBER TV STATION.Edea was about to talk in TV when Mr Seifer decides to appear.
The president didn´t mentions a parade either.

Like you say, the president didn't finish the speech as Seifer appeared, so he might not have a chance to mention it. But look here, usually when someone of importance decided to visit some place or given a important appointment, a ceremony or parade is usually held to welcome he or she. Look at Squall, when he got promoted, his friends held a concert to congrats him.



You don´t understand this question.
Of course all people weren´t supposed to be at the parade.
The question was,why force outsiders to stay out and then let them see it through TV?

Look here Future, if for example your country is the number bad ass around the region and your national day parade is coming.You want your neighbouring countries to see all your glory but is afraid they might take the chance to screw you up, what will you do?

[Aurora_sword]

but the parade was at the end of disc 1

[Future Esthar]

As I said,we don´t see cameras at the parade so you can´t prove that the parade was broadcasted.You say it based on external hint´s,not proofs.
This is exactly the way I develop theories.So you are not being different from me here.
I have as many evidences to say that Rinoa is Ellone as you have to say that the parade was broadcasted or that Laguna is Squall´s father or Rinoa=Ulti.

By the way,when there were special events on a city,the president surrounds himself with bodyguards. That way he can invite people of every country there as long as there were security guards.He don´t need to force people out.

[Christmas]

As I said,we don´t see cameras at the parade so you can´t prove that the parade was broadcasted.You say it based on external hint´s,not proofs.

You dun see Squall going to the toliet to pee doesn't mean he doesn't need to pee.



This is exactly the way I develop theories.So you are not being different from me here.
I have as many evidences to say that Rinoa is Ellone as you have to say that the parade was broadcasted or that Laguna is Squall´s father or Rinoa=Ulti.

I see this as a seperate issue from the other thread you make which I dun wanna mention it.



By the way,when there were special events on a city,the president surrounds himself with bodyguards. That way he can invite people of every country there as long as there were security guards.He don´t need to force people out.

Dun you know one tiny little screw up can affect the image of a whole nation? Not always the death or injury of a big shot matters. A bomb exploded into a quiet corner of the town far from the parade and kill a vagabond which unluckily was sleeping there. It can already shaken the morale of the whole nation and other countries will be laughing their ass out for the disgrace.

[Future Esthar]

You dun see Squall going to the toliet to pee doesn't mean he doesn't need to pee.

It doesn´t matter,you don´t have proofs.End point.


I see this as a seperate issue from the other thread you make which I dun wanna mention it.

Please,respond to the exact message of the quote instead of giving technical comments.

[Christmas]

You dun see Squall going to the toliet to pee doesn't mean he doesn't need to pee.

It doesn´t matter,you don´t have proofs.End point.

It is based on common knowledge and logical analysis/assumption as I stated before.You dun need to see a hen lay egg to know that it will lay egg. One last idiot proof example:

It is told that Rinoa is a GIRL but there is no proof that she is a girl. So what if she looks like a girl? Must we strip her naked to proof she is a girl? But since you want proofs, so be it .The parade was kept to the Galbadians then.



This is exactly the way I develop theories.So you are not being different from me here.
I have as many evidences to say that Rinoa is Ellone as you have to say that the parade was broadcasted or that Laguna is Squall´s father or Rinoa=Ulti.



I see this as a seperate issue from the other thread you make which I dun wanna mention it.

Please,respond to the exact message of the quote instead of giving technical comments.

I dun see any point of responding it in the first place since this is just a personal opinions/comments of you.

I also see that our little discussion should come to a little conclusion since I am the only one offering my humble opinions and I am growing rather tired of it, can you tell us the point of this thread now?

[Future Esthar]

Not every poll of mine has conclusions.
But this one has.

The conclusion is that the information about Julia being dead is accepted by everyone and it appears at the tutorial.But it could be a lie managed in the same way that Deling managed Seifer´s death.A lie to keep Julia´s secret identity as Edea Kramer.

[Christmas]

Not every poll of mine has conclusions.
But this one has.

The conclusion is that the information about Julia being dead is accepted by everyone and it appears at the tutorial.But it could be a lie managed in the same way that Deling managed Seifer´s death.A lie to keep Julia´s secret identity as Edea Kramer.

Oh INTERESTING, Julia is Edea....so...Caraway and Cid share a same wife huh? What make you think that?

[Future Esthar]

Cid don´t knows she was married.She was possessed at that time(the time Cid meets her).
After all she and Caraway are villains(Julia´s name changed to Edea when she gets possessed).So what´s the surprise?

[Christmas]

no, no, no, i am not surprised at all. I was EXPECTING it.
So, why Julia= Edea?
What do you based on to come up with such a theory?
Btw, this is a little infomation I managed to gather about Julia



Who Julia really is
name: Julia Heartilly
other: Julia Caraway
age: 22 (when she met Laguna)
height: about 166cm
bloodtype: unknown
origin: Deling City

[ occupation ]
Julia Heartilly was a pianist at a club in the lower level of Galbadia Hotel. She eventually pursued her true dream to become a singer. Julia's song "Eyes On Me" was based on an impressionable person she met at the bar, Laguna Loire.

[ family life ]
Laguna had to go off to war due to new orders and although she waited, Julia never got to see him again. Julia still had her debut and "Eyes On Me" becomes a hit. A Major in the Galbadian Army named Fury Caraway who had his eye on Julia for some time and probably knew who the song was about, comforts her. Their feelings eventually turned into true love and a few months later Fury Caraway asks to marry her. A year after their marriage, at the age of 23, Julia has a daughter named Rinoa.

[ death ]
Five years later at the age of 28, Julia dies in a car accident. Rinoa is left to be raised by a single military career parent, becoming somewhat an army brat. Fury Caraway over the years rises in rank to become a Colonel (English FF8 called him General).

[ love life ]
It seems Laguna Loire was Julia's first love and vice versa. Although their time together was short, the connection they had was so strong that it lived again through their children. This is what FF8 is about: Destiny.

Let just say Rinoa's age is the same as Squall's age. Julia is only out of Rinoa's picture at the age of 5 and supposed to be with Cid and the orphanage. But I do know that Squall is already at the orphanage at the age of 4 or the orphanage should exist by then.



Irvine: Rinoa, I understand. Someone might not be there. Someone you
love may disappear before your very eyes. It's tough when you live your
life thinking that way. But that's why I fight... (picks up a basketball)
When I was a little kid... I was about 4 or so... I was in an orphanage.

Proof to show Rinoa, Irvine, Squall are of the same age.

http://www.eyesonff.com/ff8/characters.shtml

So, you are telling Julia spilit into two person one being Edea and stay in the orphanage the other being Julia stay with her family until she is pronunced dead?

[Future Esthar]

You are thrusting in age?In the world of FF8 you can´t simply do that.
If you are surprised with my last post look at this:

Rinoa´s fathers:Julia(Edea) and Seifer Almasy

Zell´s fathers: Squall and Rinoa.

Selphie´s fathers: Zell and Quistis.

Selphie will marry in the near future with Irvine.

But weren´t them about the same age?
If this is true and Selphie is at its young,Edea should be at her´s 80´s
And Squall at its 60´s
And Quistis at her 40´s
Or something near that.
To explain this,let´s assume Julia is Edea.And Ulti is Julia(as i posted on another topic)
This means that Edea is...
Then she performs time compression.
But we know there is a time loop there in the end.
I will argue till the end on that topic in which i talk about time compression.
I will argue that TC was not supposed to end,that TC never happened at Lunatic Pandora and the first signal of time compression in Ulti´s time would be a geological catastrophe caused by the Lunar Cry in the continent.
The fact that TC ended was an ilusion from Ultimecia.
That big mess we see in the final battle was not Time Compression.Ulti deceived you well here.What smart she is.
Since the world of FF8 was already compressed it´s easy to see how do they have the same age.
Ulti even manipulated her own life in Galbadia (different state of present?)

[Winter Nights]

You are thrusting in age?In the world of FF8 you can´t simply do that.
If you are surprised with my last post look at this:

Rinoa´s fathers:Julia(Edea) and Seifer Almasy

Zell´s fathers: Squall and Rinoa.

Selphie´s fathers: Zell and Quistis.

Selphie will marry in the near future with Irvine.

But weren´t them about the same age?
If this is true and Selphie is at its young,Edea should be at her´s 80´s
And Squall at its 60´s
And Quistis at her 40´s
Or something near that.
To explain this,let´s assume Julia is Edea.And Ulti is Julia(as i posted on another topic)
This means that Edea is...
Then she performs time compression.
But we know there is a time loop there in the end.
I will argue till the end on that topic in which i talk about time compression.
I will argue that TC was not supposed to end,that TC never happened at Lunatic Pandora and the first signal of time compression in Ulti´s


What.. the.. FUCK? This is getting WAY too retarded for my tastes.

[Future Esthar]

post edited.

[Xaven]

I'm sorry, but Quistis did not get in bed with Zell and have a child named Selphie - THE Selphie. I'm sorry, but no.

Autumn Rain is right, by the way. It is very apparent that you are making this up on the spot, okay? God, how did ever come up with that in the first place? Rinoa is Selphie's grandmother, my a**!

[Christmas]

You are thrusting in age?In the world of FF8 you can´t simply do that.
If you are surprised with my last post look at this:

Rinoa´s fathers:Julia(Edea) and Seifer Almasy

Zell´s fathers: Squall and Rinoa.

Selphie´s fathers: Zell and Quistis.

Selphie will marry in the near future with Irvine.

But weren´t them about the same age?
If this is true and Selphie is at its young,Edea should be at her´s 80´s
And Squall at its 60´s
And Quistis at her 40´s
Or something near that.
To explain this,let´s assume Julia is Edea.And Ulti is Julia(as i posted on another topic)
This means that Edea is...
Then she performs time compression.
But we know there is a time loop there in the end.
I will argue till the end on that topic in which i talk about time compression.
I will argue that TC was not supposed to end,that TC never happened at Lunatic Pandora and the first signal of time compression in Ulti´s time would be a geological catastrophe caused by the Lunar Cry in the continent.
The fact that TC ended was an ilusion from Ultimecia.
That big mess we see in the final battle was not Time Compression.Ulti deceived you well here.What smart she is.
Since the world of FF8 was already compressed it´s easy to see how do they have the same age.
Ulti even manipulated her own life in Galbadia (different state of present?)

What the banana? This is one of the most ******* thing I ever read in my life. So the age thingy in the official character's profile are all bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif or serve no specific importance, so what the point of all those profile?

So any info of the characters beside anything based on your theory are nothing but trash and bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif????

And the marriage thingy...praise to Yu Yevon I would say and may the force be with you. I need a break from all this...

[Xaven]

-So the age thingy in the official character's profile are all bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif or serve no specific importance, so what the point of all those profile?-


Hrm. I suppose we should contact the staff at EoFF site and tell them to fix the character profiles in the FFVIII section since apparantly, what they have is all BS.

[Future Esthar]

The character profiles were right.
Didn´t you read my post till the end?It seems you don´t read.
The ages are correct.
The game never says anything about Zell´s mother,Selphie´s mother,etc...
I just explained how is it that they are about the same age but have this family relationship.Read the last two lines of my post please.

[Winter Nights]

*reads it again* Yup, still hogwash.

[Christmas]

So....why Zell and Quistis, Edea and Seifer and Selphie and Irvine? What do you based on to tell all this.

And now I notice Edea\Ulti\Julia had a lot of lovers in her life, first Laguna then Caraway then Cid and finally Seifer. She sure have a outstanding lover career.

Just for your references only, the standard fan based pairings are Quistis and Seifer, Zell and Library girl <---- My favourite pairings :love: .

[Future Esthar]

There is no love between Caraway and Julia.They were possessed by the same person(which I call X).She marries Cid to be able to create Garden and control SeeD.
No one knows she is Ulti.The Ulti they fight at her castle.
Ulti is married with Seifer at her medieval time.But her real love was Laguna.
Think of Laguna as Lancelot,Ulti as Guinevere and Seifer as Arthur.

[Winter Nights]

I really think it is time you lay down the pipe, sparky.

[Christmas]

Alright, Alright, then how do you get the Zell, Quistis, Edea, Seifer, and all those pairings. Pls enlighten me.

[Future Esthar]

Let me tell you that Seed is always working for Ultimecia (without them knowing it).
Ellone knows it and decided to be the client of Seed to save them.
She knows she need to save them from the prision or they would stay there obeying orders.
Despite Rinoa being arrested in Caraway´s house Zone and Watts saved her and she joins the "Forest owls".
Rinoa then starts fighting the government which worries her "dad".He knows that Ellone knows that he is a monster possessed by X.
Also,Rinoa knows about the secret passage in Caraways mansion.
I will make a pause and then I will explain the pairings I propose.

[Christmas]

I look foward to hearing the pairings.
*jot everything down and send to Fanfiction.net*

[Alexander]

I look foward to hearing the pairings.
*jot everything down and send to Fanfiction.net*

Fanfiction.net will do a Nonsense Fanfictions section just to put this one. XD

[Future Esthar]

Do that.But don´t say they were theories about the game.Post them as a fanfiction-

I primarily look at the relative positions the characters have on the field.
Since it´s not difficult to change the positions of the characters between fields
i think this is not just a laziness in programming.
This is not the only reason but one of them.
We always see that Quistis is near Zell on the field and that Selphie is near Irvine aswell.It happens most of the game.
Of course I am humble enough to admit this could be a bug(but you must show-me).
We know that Quistis is an instructor.So she needs to hide her feelings for Zell.
You will say-she is afective towards Squall.But Squall have greater importance than Zell in the game.She has a daughter-in-law feeling for Squall.She thinks this is love.
She has a greater feeling for Zell.But this isn´t intensified in game because she is a famous Instructor(important place) and Zell isn´t that popular.By the way,it was Edea´s purpose that Quistis becomes an instructor.She wanna to freeze Quistis and Zell´s relationship so that they forget each other in time compression.
Despite Irvine being a woman´s psycotic we see Selphie is the one he really loves.Despite being difficult to see it Selphie don´t reject him at all.
Edea managed to send them to two distant Gardens to freeze their relationship.
Phrases like "What a lively fellow" stresses the little feelings Quistis has for Zell.
Also look the excitement of Quistis when she talks about Zell´s skateboard on his room.

I don´t think Seifer´s romantic dream has anything to do with Rinoa.
After all it refers to him being the Sorceress Knight(as Squall states).
And it didn´t help Rinoa in anyway.Got my point?
Squall and Rinoa´s relationship is the most obvious.Edea send Rinoa to the White Seed ship to freeze her relationship with Squall.

[Alexander]

This doesn't make ANY sense. That's all I need to say. u.u

[Future Esthar]

post edited.

[Shauna]

I'm sorry, I really am, but none of these 'theories' make sense.

Nothing fits together in my head. Unless you can back all this up with proof, I'm not going to believe anything.

[Xaven]

Though various combinations of party members, I got this:

Sq>R>Z>Q>Se>I

Squall, Rinoa, Zell, Quistis, Selphie, then Irvine is the order in which they appear in towns and such places.

I believe that how the game orders party members appearance is absolutely irrelevant.

[Christmas]

Selphie´s fathers: Zell and Quistis.

The chance of two blonde having an offspring is almost 100% that their child should be blonde. Dun tell me Selphie go dye her hair?


Zell´s fathers: Squall and Rinoa.

Same applies here. Both non-blonde parents give birth to a blonde kid...ya know, the Zell is Tifa and Cloud's child make more sense since Cloud is blonde.

[Xaven]

Genetics don't lie. Since I am not very familiar with hair color genetics, I will use eye color genetics instead.

Squall: bb (blue)
+Rinoa: BB (Very dark brown)
=Zell: Bb, Bb, Bb, Bb (brown)

As you can see, it is impossible for Zell to have blue eyes with Squall and Rinoa as his parents. This part of your theory is invalid.

[Future Esthar]

Zell get´s his blonde hair from Seifer and Selphie gets her gray hair from Squall.

Or do you prefer:
Quistis+Zell=Seifer
Seifer +Edea = Rinoa
Rinoa+ Squall=Selphie
?
Xaven,help me see if the eyes thing work on this case,please.

[Christmas]

Zell get´s his blonde hair from Seifer and Selphie gets her gray hair from Squall.


If Seifer and Edea give birth to Rinoa and Rinoa isn't blonde,and Rinoa marry Squall and have offspring, the chance of the kid is blonde is almost 0% because most likely kids take the genes of the parents not the grandparent since the grandparent already passed down their genes to the parent.

Which mean Rinoa is non-blonde so mean she didn't catch Seifer's hair genes so the kid she has is also a mixture of her partner's genes which is Squall which also isn't a blonde either.

So the offspring most likely won't be blonde.

[Xaven]

I'm not very familiar with hair genetics, so I will refer to eye color genetics again.

Br=Brown. (I added the r to the B to make it easier to understand.)
bl=blue. (I added the l to the b to make it easier to understand.)
S=Semi-dominant.

Brown is a dominant trait. That means if there is one Br and one bl, the person's eyes will be brown. If they have two Br's, they will have very dark brown like Rinoa. Blue is recessive, so it can't stand up to Brown. If a person has two b's, they will have blue eyes. The semi-dominant gene for eyes works like a medium. One Blue and one S-D will make green, while one Brown and one S-D will make hazel-ish.

Seifer's eyes are blue. Edea seems to have at least one semi-dominant gene. I can't tell very well what genes she has so I will use ?'s instead.

Seifer: bl,bl (blue eyes)
Edea: ?, ? (yellowish)

The three possible outcomes for Rinoa's eyes if she had Edea and Seifer as parents are as follows.

bl,Br (moderate brown); bl,bl (blue); bl,S (green)

Even if we knew of Edea's genes, it is still impossible for Rinoa to have two Brown genes like she really does, because Seifer only has blues.

Sorry, this one doesn't work either.


Edit:

Rinoa and Squall can't be Selphie's parent's either.

Rinoa: Br, Br
Squal: bl, bl
In all four possible cases*, Selphie would have moderate brown eyes instead of the blue (Edit: or green) eyes she has now.

* -Br1, bl1 ; Br1, bl2 ; Br2, bl1 ; Br2, bl2

[Future Esthar]

Tell me the colors of each character please.
I think Edea´s eyes were yelowish when she is a sorceress (normal people don´t have yellowish eyes).
Her natural eyes were brown,I think.I believe Rinoa´s eyes were also brown.
I am gonna play to see their color.I will be back.

[Xaven]

Squall: bl, bl -blue
Rinoa: Br, Br -dark brown
Zell: bl, bl -blue
Quistis: bl, bl -blue
Selphie: bl, bl -blue
Irvine: bl, bl -blue
Seifer: bl, bl -blue
Edea: ??

Even if Edea has one or even two brown genes, she and Seifer could not be Rinoa's parents. No matter what, Rinoa would recieve a blue gene from Seifer (and something else from edea). Rinoa has two Brown genes.


Edit:

There was another problem. See my above post.

[Future Esthar]

I played the game and i go to "switch"

There I can see their faces.
Seifer´s eyes were green along with Selphie´s eyes.
Rinoa´s eyes could be Brown(the darkness is difficult to see).
This way Quistis and Zell weren´t Selphie´s fathers.
For her to be Seifer and Edea´s daughter the last must have a semi-dominant or a blue gene.

[Xaven]

Rinoa definitely has two Brown genes. Because of this, no main character can be Rinoa's daughter or son. No one. No matter what, they would recieve one of Rinoa's Brown genes and have some shade of brown eyes.

Again, Rinoa can not be any main character's mother. It doesn't work.


Edit:
Selphie and Seifer having green eyes doesn't change very much. It's still impossible for Selphie to be Rinoa and Squall's daughter and for Rinoa to be Edea and Seifer's daughter.

[Future Esthar]

How do you know Rinoa has dark brown hair?

[Xaven]

I'm not talking about hair. I've never been talking about hair. I'm talking about eye color!

[Future Esthar]

dark brown eyes I mean.It also looks to me that Rinoa has dark brown eyes and Ellone has brown eyes.But it´s easy to misunderstand these two.Especially if Rinoa "paint" her eyes(in the same manner women paint theirs).Use makeup, i mean.

[Alexander]

Duh.

Women don't paint her eyes. They paint their eyelids. u___u So Rinoa can't be mother of one of the main characters, indeed.

[Xaven]

No, Rinoa's eyes are much darker. Here's an example.

Rinoa's picture's link (http://students.washington.edu/nar23/gallery's/RINOA_~1.JPG)

http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15068

Simply look. Rinoa's eyes are so dark that they are on the borderline of being black! This is because both brown genes are working together (in the same direction). I don't know how to make it any more obvious.

Ellone on the other hand has light brown eyes. That's what happens when someone has one blue and one brown gene. The brown is dominant while the blue is recessive. This means that the brown dominates in color over the blue. However, the blue does keep it from becoming dark with what little power it has. (The two different types of genes oppose each other.)

This is how it works and you can't change it.


Edit:
By the way, I'm pretty sure they don't have colored contacts in Squall's world.

Also, I fear it would be incredibly painful for anyone to even attempt to "paint their eyes... :rolleyes2"

Edit2:
How did you get Ellone involved in this? Where does she come in?

[Future Esthar]

There is a possibility:
Zell+Quistis=Seifer.
Seifer+Edea=Selphie (Since Edea has a semi-dominant gene probably)
Selphie+Irvine = Squall

It obeys eyes genetics.

Concerning the hair genetics maybe blonde hair+dark hair give grey hair(Seifer+Edea = Selphie)

[Xaven]

Seifer´s eyes were green along with Selphie´s eyes.

You said yourself that Seifer has green eyes. Where do you suppose he got that gene from? Or, do you change your mind since it does not fit in the theory you just made? Either that, or your actually aren't complying with genetics.

[Future Esthar]

Oops,sorry.This was a mistake.
Seifer+Edea=Zell
Zell+Quistis=Irvine (which is strange and i will explain why)
Irvine+Selphie=Squall

[Xaven]

Though I am only slightly familiar with hair color genetics I do not believe what you just said is possible.

Zell and Quistis are both entirely blond. Irvine is a brunett. Where do you suppose he got his genes from?

[Future Esthar]

Unknows says there is little possibility for that.But there is still a possibility.

[Xaven]

Little possibility as in: "Won't happen unless a specific genetic mutation occurs."?

[Future Esthar]

Since they are Propagators the genetics don´t necessarily need to apply here.
They changed to human form when they reach Earth.
Anyway,R=U adepts will be glad to know that Rinoa had to be the last sorceress.
But since I believe that Ulti lives on a further past (at least three generations further )this theory also points toward her being Edea,the first sorceress.

[Alexander]

Wow. We play with Proagators with human forms. Neat.

Man, show me some proof. Please. ¬¬

[Future Esthar]

You just need to look at Edea when she joins your party.She looks more like a propagator than the other characters.Look specially to her arms.

[Rini]

Riiight.. Are you high on something? Nothing you say really makes sense at all, except for the part with the genetics (and you were able to mess even that up in the end...). Please stop making ridiculous statements with no proof whatsoever and start pondering the philosophy of the game instead.

[liamo]

seifer is alive he isn't well known until the tv incident with the president and becoming the sorceresses knight. as for the telling of seifer execution wouldn't that help in martines plan to kill the sorceress by making what he would have thought as siefers friends by pissing em off and more easy to manipulate in his plan? ph34|2 |V|y l337 5|<!|_|_5

[Christmas]

Unknows says there is little possibility for that.But there is still a possibility.

Let just say me and Xaven got married.
Xaven and I have average IQ.
So, what do you think the chances of us having a super genius kid with IQ above 300?

And for Hyne sake is Unknowns not Unknows.


Since they are Propagators the genetics don´t necessarily need to apply here.
They changed to human form when they reach Earth.


Propagators are also genetic linked by their colours if you play the game. Since they can revive each other if they are the same colours, so are you saying that if Edea is killed and Seifer is alive, Seifer will have the ability to revive Edea?

[Alexander]

And her arms... man, get a life. That's because of clothes. I have gloves that looks a lot like Edea's "hands". Will I be a Propagator when I use them? u_u

[Squall of SeeD]

As far as Edea's hands goes, the Ultimania Guide makes it clear that misuse of the Witch Embodiment (Black Magic) results in physical deformities. This is why she has those elongated claws in place of her fingers, and why those veins are growing across her face.

Further, that's why Adel's body is so deformed, and the same is the case with the Witches encountered as SeeD travels to the future.

[Christmas]

Alright, few more questions and pls answer them with concrete proof and logical explaination and the name is Unknowns and not Unknows or Unknov, I will treat that as a personal insult. :mad2:


Cid don´t knows she was married.She was possessed at that time(the time Cid meets her).

We knew that Caraway met Julia and have or adopted a child. Julia were pronounced "dead" when child have exist in the world for 5 year.

Julia was transformed to Edea by Deling for some unknown reason which the only the poster below know.


She need to be sent to prision because this is a facility witch has the technology to transform Julia into Edea.

Which mean she is only EDEA after JULIA is dead.
Cid met Edea after this and set up the orphange.Consider all this it take about a few years to happen.

But in true storyline the orphange existed all before this and at least when Julia's child had existed in the world for 4 years which suggest orphanage is there even before the "death" of Julia. So how is this possible that Julia/Edea be in two place at once? Being with Caraway and setting up the orphanage with Cid and also Edea is never Edea until Julia "die".

If you want to say TIME COMPRESSION is the culprit again as stated:


But weren´t them about the same age?
If this is true and Selphie is at its young,Edea should be at her´s 80´s
And Squall at its 60´s
And Quistis at her 40´s
Or something near that.
To explain this,let´s assume Julia is Edea.And Ulti is Julia(as i posted on another topic)
This means that Edea is...
Then she performs time compression.
But we know there is a time loop there in the end.
I will argue till the end on that topic in which i talk about time compression.
I will argue that TC was not supposed to end,that TC never happened at Lunatic Pandora and the first signal of time compression in Ulti´s time would be a geological catastrophe caused by the Lunar Cry in the continent.
The fact that TC ended was an ilusion from Ultimecia.
That big mess we see in the final battle was not Time Compression.Ulti deceived you well here.What smart she is.
Since the world of FF8 was already compressed it´s easy to see how do they have the same age.
Ulti even manipulated her own life in Galbadia (different state of present?)
__________________

Time Compression warped everyone of different time into the same place and let them have the same age at the same time. But this still doesn't explain that Edea/Julia can be setting up the orphanage with Cid while being with Caraway until she is "dead" since she is only Edea after Julia is "dead". Which mean how is she gonna be in two place at one time?

And mind if you answer the genes question and the hand question that is concerning everyone.

[Takara]

This entire thread is an excellent argument against the legalization of marijuana and other drugs, I'd say...

[Future Esthar]

Unknowns,do you remember when Ulti passed her powers to Edea at the end of the game?
Well,since Edea is Ulti we are seeing her twice aren´t we?
Obviously their ages weren´t different.
But we know Ulti time-traveled to Edea´s time.
In the same manner,Julia became Edea and time-traveled to the past.Then she went to Centra.Simple.

And what marijuanas had to do with this thread?

[Xaven]

And what marijuanas had to do with this thread?
You really are clueless. :D

Edit:

Wait, so sorceress powers were passed from people with the same age, at the same time, and the same place, who are the same person, but not?

[Christmas]

Unknowns,do you remember when Ulti passed her powers to Edea at the end of the game?
Well,since Edea is Ulti we are seeing her twice aren´t we?
Obviously their ages weren´t different.
But we know Ulti time-traveled to Edea´s time.
In the same manner,Julia became Edea and time-traveled to the past.Then she went to Centra.Simple.


The only reason Ultimecia can go back Edea's time is that she is defeated and time compression is screwed and which most likely she and Squall fall into a time warp and got warp to the past.

Look here, during the game no one can travel through time unless by their conscious through Ellone's power. The only way to travel time is in the ending when they used time compression to get to Ultimecia's time.

So course the above may just be used for references purposes since you say the world of FF8 is already time compressed but in a state of "WELL ORGANIZED" Since it is "WELL ORGANIZED it allow people to travel through time at their own will like the "non-organized" time compression?

And if Ultimecia can send her body through time at her own will in that "WOTC" world, why didn't she just come and do all the job herself to make it faster?

Also, she can just travel to the time when Squall is young and bump him off.

And lastly, if she can travel through time in her own will, why do she need Ellone?


And what marijuanas had to do with this thread?

As for this, since you like to give riddles, why dun you try guessing this one then?

EDIT: Dun forget the genes and hand question...

[Future Esthar]

LOOK AT THIS.THIS IS IMPORTANT.
Ultimecia can time travel.
X can time travel also.
This would make them all-powerfull.
In fact X already was able to perform his/her plan.
X was able to possess Squall,Rinoa,Quistis,Zell,Seifer,Edea,Selphie and Irvine.
X plan is not to kill Squall and company but to POSSESS THEM and to use they power to create a great "sorceress" power.Then X wanna them to rule over Timber(and the entire Galbadia).This ALREADY HAPPENED.This was a sad event I must admit.
But there is hope.
Before Rinoa(the fairy) was possessed by X(I am not referring here to the possession in space but her possession on her medieval time) she used her ability.Her ability was experienced by people on many different eras.Including the era in which Squall and company ruled Timber.
This one is what worries X.
Timber citizens then start to worry about the dreams Elle was enabling them to.They were surprised by the fact that the dreams were colective.
X realizes this and don´t wanna Timber citizens to spot what he/she have been doing in the past.
So X decided to entirely change the past.X starts by possessing Edea and compressing time (WOTC).X then convinced Timberians that the dreams were not on different eras but on different places.So ,curious, they decided to left Timber to look for these events.
Some of them stayed at some place but others advanced further.
Despite X performed time compression to confuse them it was better for him that they stayed on Timber.
So X decided to possess two Shumi´s.
One that will had the idea of them to left Timber.
And another that will try to convince them to stay (but will end up going with them).
X then tried to change past events to look different to them.
X wanna Ellone to see an artificial manipulated past.Despite being all powerful X´s actions became limited by Ellone´s watching.
X changes the shape of the events so that Timberians learn wrongly what happens on the past when Ellone enables them to it.
Thus X also starts to chase Elone
(To be edited late night because I have to go now).

[Christmas]

LOOK AT THIS.THIS IS IMPORTANT.
Ultimecia can time travel.
X can time travel also.

If Ultimecia can time travel, there is no need to use Junction Machine Ellone and desn't serve any point of possessing since she can send her body instead just her consious to the past as stated in the game.


This would make them all-powerfull.
In fact X already was able to perform his/her plan.
X was able to possess Squall,Rinoa,Quistis,Zell,Seifer,Edea,Selphie and Irvine.
X plan is not to kill Squall and company but to POSSESS THEM and to use they power to create a great "sorceress" power.

Look, if "X" is so almighty powerful why did he need to possess someone and let them do the job for him. And this "X" can possess multiple people? He/she spilt into several form and possess all of them? And "X" tried to posses them again the prison like you stated earlier?

Squall and company have no "great power" to create "great sorceress power".If you say the girls are all sorceress and have great powers and "X" wanted to absorb them, then the power absorbed is nothing compare to the power absorb through time compression as you absorbed every SINGLE sorceress in time of their powers.

If you see this clearly

Squall : A excellent gunblade wielder from garden with a decent amount of brute strength. Nothing else, no hidden "great" powers...

The same applies to all the other guys, they are just exceptional fighters.

The only "great sorceress power" in the game to be created is through time compression.


Then X wanna them to rule over Timber(and the entire Galbadia).This ALREADY HAPPENED.This was a sad event I must admit.
But there is hope.
Before Rinoa(the fairy) was possessed by X(I am not referring here to the possession in space but her possession on her medieval time) she used her ability.Her ability was experienced by people on many different eras.Including the era in which Squall and company ruled Timber.
This one is what worries X.
Timber citizens then start to worry about the dreams Elle was enabling them to.They were surprised by the fact that the dreams were colective.X realizes this and don´t wanna Timber citizens to spot what he/she have been doing in the past.

Ruling over country and taking over the world is never the intention of the villian in the game. The intention is to perform time compression and absorb every sorceress power through history and the future. The only reason that Edea took over Galbadia is that she needed the military to help her find Ellone. And you do notice Edea dun care how the Galbadia people think of her. If she mind the impression of the Galbadia people on her, she won't kill the president in public. To her, Galbadia is just a stepping stone to Time Compression.




So X decided to entirely change the past.X starts by possessing Edea and compressing time (WOTC).

No one can compress time without the power of Ellone to take he/her back further into the past as stated below.


Ultimecia probably needs to go back further in time to achieve
time compression. Only Ellone can take her back further into ze past.



then convinced Timberians that the dreams were not on different eras but on different places.So ,curious, they decided to left Timber to look for these events.
Some of them stayed at some place but others advanced further.
Despite X performed time compression to confuse them it was better for him that they stayed on Timber.

Just what do Rinoa/Ellone showed them? And are the one that left contribute a lot to your theory or the one that stay?



So X decided to possess two Shumi´s.
One that will had the idea of them to left Timber.
And another that will try to convince them to stay (but will end up going with them).

Which Shumi are you talking about here? NORG, Elder...or some random shumi like those two in the Garden.



X then tried to change past events to look different to them.
X wanna Ellone to see an artificial manipulated past.Despite being all powerful X´s actions became limited by Ellone´s watching.
X changes the shape of the events so that Timberians learn wrongly what happens on the past when Ellone enables them to it.
Thus X also starts to chase Elone
(To be edited late night because I have to go now).

Look, there is no need for Ellone if "X" is so almighty powerful like you stated. X can perform time compression and travel back forth in time through his own will with his body, not just consious, what is the point of Ellone now? Ellone only special purpose in the game is that she can send someone consious back to the past and NOBODY in the game can. I also noticed this "X" just for your information, possessed just too much people and can possess anyone he/she like and even mulitple body unlike what was stated in the game, only limited to sorceress.

Finally, what you stated have absolutely no basis from actually game events nor scripts and information or the Graphical at least through my point of views.
You are just making deductions with no actual linkage to the game nor story. If you can, show some proof like some in game screenshots if you emphasis so much on graphic or some game related informations and not just your deduction/comments.

PS: If this is what you think it is, then the more "X" is Yevon/Hyne. ;)

Point 1: Yevon by himself is a weakling in a sense that he is vulnerable and only rely on possessing others to gain powers. Thus, the same why he wanted possess Squall and Co.

Point 2: You say Timber citizen start to worry by what they see. And we all know that Ellone/Rinoa specialize in sending someone to the PAST. So the Timber citizens will see the events that happened centuries ago or should I say the events of FFX and the true nature if Yu Yevon/Hyne.

So the entire theory is to hide the fact that Hyne is actually Yevon to all those that have already forgotten through the passing of time.

EDIT: You still didn't answer the propagator and genes' question.

[Future Esthar]

Many things Odine says were based solely on Edea´s descriptions(some of them lies) and wrongly conclusions.

[Christmas]

Many things Odine says were based solely on Edea´s descriptions(some of them lies) and wrongly conclusions.

So Edea lie to Odine about something? What might that be and on what basis?

Look, what Edea told Odine is what is going on in the game which everyone knows.

When Odine speak to everyone about the solution of defeating Ultimecia, he spoke of several issue which Squall and CO(including us, the gamers) knew and understand and wasn't that surprised. So which mean what Odine know tally with what Squall know which tally with the in game events.

The only thing that surprise them is the machine Odine invented but that is something Odine himself said.

It is not like Odine speak something and Squall reaction is like "WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT YOU OLD GOOD FOR NOTHING SOON-TO-KICK-THE-BUCKET-RETARDED-FREAK???"

[ZuZu]

everyone knows that Seifer isn't dead...

ok, now I participated to this VERY IMPORTANT POLL

[Future Esthar]

Because Edea is Ulti and she is still possessed by X.
Why can´t you see my theory has internal consistency even if it goes against the script almost entirely?
Not only that but it was backed up by many graphical details and events.That is lack of intuition.
X can time travel,can send his consciousness to the past and future and has no real magical power.
Whatever happens on the game that sugests the opposite is manipulated by X.

[Christmas]

everyone knows that Seifer isn't dead...

ok, now I participated to this VERY IMPORTANT POLL

But this poll has turn out to be something more than meet the eyes now, thanks for participating anyway(on behalf of Esthar that is).


Because Edea is Ulti and she is still possessed by X.
Why can´t you see my theory has internal consistency even if it goes against the script almost entirely?
Not only that but it was backed up by many graphical details and events.That is lack of intuition.
X can time travel,can send his consciousness to the past and future and has no real magical power.
Whatever happens on the game that sugests the opposite is manipulated by X.

Now every events, script are all lie since everything is manipulated by "X". I can't see the "internal consistency" because you are saying all this by your own basis all along. It is like:

"Xaven, you stole ZuZu's candy."
"But I didn't"
"Look, I say you stole it after much investigation and deduction which I cannot explain to you but can't you see through it yourself? So just plead guility"
"But this doesn't fit in with what the law say"
"Ya, but from my point of view of reading the law book, it fit perfectly fine"
"What the smuf...."

(Sorry if I offended anyone by using their names in this example...)

And I still dun see any of the graphical details you are talking about...
Also the major part in the game is Ellone can send someone consious back to the past and only she can do that which make her play a rather vital role in the game plot and should I say the main evil scheme.

But if someone else can do it and the someone else is the real villian, I still dun see any point of he villian going after Ellone to perform time compression.

[Future Esthar]

That´s why I don´t rely just on the script but also on graphical minor details and events.
You know I don´t just say X is manipulating events to made my theories right.

An example:

Someone stoles a jar.
We asks Joseph(let´s call him this) if he stole the jar.
He says:No,it was Anna.Don´t you see?She is running from you.
However Joseph created an invinsible soldier to go after Anna(it can happen) and he adviced her that the soldier will go after her (and she feels it through radiation or some other thing and started running).

However we can see that Joseph was lying because we see his digital fingerprints on the vase.
(We had already recovered the vase somehow and are just looking for the culprit).

[Christmas]

That´s why I don´t rely just on the script but also on graphical minor details and events.
You know I don´t just say X is manipulating events to made my theories right.

An example:

Someone stoles a jar.
We asks Joseph(let´s call him this) if he stole the jar.
He says:No,it was Anna.Don´t you see?She is running from you.
However Joseph created an invinsible soldier to go after Anna(it can happen) and he adviced her that the soldier will go after her (and she feels it through radiation or some other thing and started running).

However we can see that Joseph was lying because we see his digital fingerprints on the vase.
(We had already recovered the vase somehow and are just looking for the culprit).

Anna will only be branded as a SUSPECT but not a CULPRIT.
Your statement willl not be valid until Anna is caught because she could have just touched the vase and left the fingerprints behind and also other factors.

Look: A person is innocent until proven guilty. (I dun know that if it apply in other countries though)

So you can't just base on graphics to do all the job ignore the other facts.

[Future Esthar]

The example was not the best but you understood the meaning,don´t you?

[Christmas]

The example was not the best but you understood the meaning,don´t you?

Ya, so? You still can't reply on graphics and ignore the other facts.

Example:

A farmer grow a tomato.
The tomato LOOK like a tomato.
But the tomato doesn't TASTE like a tomato.

[Xaven]

Could you give us an example of "graphical details" from the game that supports your theories, please. Thanks.

[Future Esthar]

The Ellone=Rinoa theory was backed up by two pictures,don´t you remember?

[Xaven]

The Ellone=Rinoa theory was backed up by two pictures,don´t you remember?

Are you talking about that whole thing about Rinoa looking like she has shorter hair for a moment? Funny, I still call those mistakes or bad camera angles.

[Christmas]

Are you talking about that whole thing about Rinoa looking like she has shorter hair for a moment? Funny, I still call those mistakes or bad camera angles.

And I will still say even a kid could tell those are just doubling images of Rinoa.

[Del Murder]

This just seems to have become a duplicate discussion of your other thread (http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64957).