about the origin of ultimecia (big big spoiler)

[Rinoa2005]

Who is Ultimecia?
I will show she was two different womans in the game.
First,we know she dresses in red.
Second,she has an organ on her castle.Persons who play organ also play piano.The instruments are different but the technic is the same.
She is the queen of the castle.
Looking at the art gallery there was a picture of a woman named XERAMPELINAE(red clothes).There is a picture about three guys named VIGIL(watchman) and another named VENUS(love).
These were the only pictures about persons and love.
All the paintings tells us about medieval events.When we look at the VIGIL painting we see that they were on that part of the castel before the boss Krysta. The part with the falling candlelight.
Looking at these mens we picture a resemblance with Laguna,Kyros and Ward.
They are always watching.First they watch Ellone talking with Raine.
After they watch the conversation between Odine and his assistants.
One of their missions was to patrol(watch over).
Now considering Ulti wanna her servants to paint her (as any blue-blood queen wanna) we have a picture of her named XERAMPELINAE.
The other pictures must be events on Ulti´s time also.
What is the only other persion on the game which dresses in red ,has short black hair,plays piano and was in love with Laguna?
It is not other than Julia Heartilly.
The identity of the other woman?
I was about to tell you in the topic "Wonder how people didn´t notice it" somewhere at the fourth page.And maybe will.

So Ulti=Julia=????
I will reveal on another topic.


i don't know... julia is rinoa's mum who by the way DIE when Rinoa was five or so!!!! :mad2: :mad2: and she wasn't a Sorceress!!!
What,did she make her family think she was death so she could go to the future and try to kill her daughter?????!!!!! :mad2: :mad2: :confused: :confused:

[GunbladeMaster]

Who is Ultimecia?
I will show she was two different womans in the game.
First,we know she dresses in red.
Second,she has an organ on her castle.Persons who play organ also play piano.The instruments are different but the technic is the same.
She is the queen of the castle.
Looking at the art gallery there was a picture of a woman named XERAMPELINAE(red clothes).There is a picture about three guys named VIGIL(watchman) and another named VENUS(love).
These were the only pictures about persons and love.
All the paintings tells us about medieval events.When we look at the VIGIL painting we see that they were on that part of the castel before the boss Krysta. The part with the falling candlelight.
Looking at these mens we picture a resemblance with Laguna,Kyros and Ward.
They are always watching.First they watch Ellone talking with Raine.
After they watch the conversation between Odine and his assistants.
One of their missions was to patrol(watch over).
Now considering Ulti wanna her servants to paint her (as any blue-blood queen wanna) we have a picture of her named XERAMPELINAE.
The other pictures must be events on Ulti´s time also.
What is the only other persion on the game which dresses in red ,has short black hair,plays piano and was in love with Laguna?
It is not other than Julia Heartilly.
The identity of the other woman?
I was about to tell you in the topic "Wonder how people didn´t notice it" somewhere at the fourth page.And maybe will.

So Ulti=Julia=????
I will reveal on another topic.


i don't know... julia is rinoa's mum who by the way DIE when Rinoa was five or so!!!! :mad2: :mad2: and she wasn't a Sorceress!!!
What,did she make her family think she was death so she could go to the future and try to kill her daughter?????!!!!! :mad2: :mad2: :confused: :confused:


haha starwars spoof.
Ultimecia: "Rinoa, I am your Mother"
Rinoa: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (kills ultimecia and saves the galactic empire) :D

[Gilgamesh of Legends]

Who is Ultimecia?
I will show she was two different womans in the game.
First,we know she dresses in red.
Second,she has an organ on her castle.Persons who play organ also play piano.The instruments are different but the technic is the same.
She is the queen of the castle.
Looking at the art gallery there was a picture of a woman named XERAMPELINAE(red clothes).There is a picture about three guys named VIGIL(watchman) and another named VENUS(love).
These were the only pictures about persons and love.
All the paintings tells us about medieval events.When we look at the VIGIL painting we see that they were on that part of the castel before the boss Krysta. The part with the falling candlelight.
Looking at these mens we picture a resemblance with Laguna,Kyros and Ward.
They are always watching.First they watch Ellone talking with Raine.
After they watch the conversation between Odine and his assistants.
One of their missions was to patrol(watch over).
Now considering Ulti wanna her servants to paint her (as any blue-blood queen wanna) we have a picture of her named XERAMPELINAE.
The other pictures must be events on Ulti´s time also.
What is the only other persion on the game which dresses in red ,has short black hair,plays piano and was in love with Laguna?
It is not other than Julia Heartilly.
The identity of the other woman?
I was about to tell you in the topic "Wonder how people didn´t notice it" somewhere at the fourth page.And maybe will.

So Ulti=Julia=????
I will reveal on another topic.


i don't know... julia is rinoa's mum who by the way DIE when Rinoa was five or so!!!! :mad2: :mad2: and she wasn't a Sorceress!!!
What,did she make her family think she was death so she could go to the future and try to kill her daughter?????!!!!! :mad2: :mad2: :confused: :confused:

the gets in a car accident, thers no way ulti=julia

[Rinoa2005]

[QUOTE=bipper]Realistically, Rinoa can't be Ulti. Remember what the doc in Back to the future says? I cant phrase it but if a person sees their future self - vs thier past self - BOOM - the galaxy unfolds -or- they feint. Luckily the docs second theory was right, and they merely feint.


TC= no rules!!!! As long they are inside TC ulti is in control!! She wouldn't let this "BOOM" happen!! :mad2:

Oh and my english is not good so if i screw it up I'm sorry!!

[Rinoa2005]

Who is Ultimecia?
I will show she was two different womans in the game.
First,we know she dresses in red.
Second,she has an organ on her castle.Persons who play organ also play piano.The instruments are different but the technic is the same.
She is the queen of the castle.
Looking at the art gallery there was a picture of a woman named XERAMPELINAE(red clothes).There is a picture about three guys named VIGIL(watchman) and another named VENUS(love).
These were the only pictures about persons and love.
All the paintings tells us about medieval events.When we look at the VIGIL painting we see that they were on that part of the castel before the boss Krysta. The part with the falling candlelight.
Looking at these mens we picture a resemblance with Laguna,Kyros and Ward.
They are always watching.First they watch Ellone talking with Raine.
After they watch the conversation between Odine and his assistants.
One of their missions was to patrol(watch over).
Now considering Ulti wanna her servants to paint her (as any blue-blood queen wanna) we have a picture of her named XERAMPELINAE.
The other pictures must be events on Ulti´s time also.
What is the only other persion on the game which dresses in red ,has short black hair,plays piano and was in love with Laguna?
It is not other than Julia Heartilly.
The identity of the other woman?
I was about to tell you in the topic "Wonder how people didn´t notice it" somewhere at the fourth page.And maybe will.

So Ulti=Julia=????
I will reveal on another topic.


I think Rinoa is ultimecia and the pictures are just to remember her mum!!

Hyne's sake i'm new here and i already hate this guy!!
Where does he get his f**!|@/ Theorys

[G SpOtZ]

lmao.

[Christmas]

It is kinda interesting to see this thread revived once in a while. I guess the topic along with FE's theories did draw people attention.

Anyway:


How can there really be a R=U topic when our "Marginally Official Final Fantasy VIII FAQ Thread (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=36341)" refutes it, in the very first post? There isn't a topic to discuss.

Maybe we should encourage people to read this.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

Look going back to the R=U, I think it's a bunch of bull. If you ask me I think Ultimecia could possibly be Edea and I have some evidence to prove it.

[G SpOtZ]

please share ^_^

[*~Angel Wing~*]

Okay, I'll try and be brief:

1st of all: Ultimecia looks nothing like Rinoa (my weakest reason)
If Sorceresses are immortal (as mentioned previously in other threads) then their appearence really wouldn't change that much. We see Edea at the orphanage 17 years before with Laguna, and during the credits. Even when she's pocessed she looks similar.

2nd: Her castle is also convenietly right next to the orphanage. Hmm...

3rd: There are all of those White SeeDs lying dead on the ground. Wouldn't it be ironic if she killed them? Edea, the one who took care of them and suddenly be the one who takes their lives...

4th: At the end of the game, when Squall is in the past with Matron, Ultimecia appears and gives her powers to Edea/Matron. If she was indeed Rinoa, she would have gone to a period in time where Rinoa was, and give her powers to Rinoa to power up her past self. But no, she gives them to Edea, which will give her stronger power.

5th: At the end of disc 2 Edea (being pocessed by Ultimecia) says to Squall something like, "So you are the SeeD destined to face me." We don't know at this point that she isn't Ultimecia, so we believe Edea is talking about herself, and that we're destined to face Edea, and that Edea is the ultimate villian in the game, until we find out about Ultimecia. :p

Well, so much for being brief...:D

[Winter Nights]

Sixth: A sorceress' lifespan is no longer than any other human, thus NO ONE in FF8's main timeline could be Ultimecia.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

Where is that said?

[TheAbominatrix]

The Ultimania guide, official word from Square. Sorcesses' have a normal lifespan, and Ultimecia lives to far in the future to be Rinoa or Edea.

[GunbladeMaster]

its said somewhere
give me time ill find it

[*~Angel Wing~*]

Thanx

[GunbladeMaster]

here straight from Ulimania:

Said to have existed from time immemorial to the present day, the sorceresses are women who are said to have received their powers from the old god, Hyne. There is, however, no hard evidence to support this claim. Extraordinarily powerful, many sorceresses have harboured ambitions to rule over the world – as a result, many people have come to equate the Sorceress with fear. However, there are also many Sorceresses who have chosen to live a quiet life sheltered away from civilized society; as such, the actual number of Sorceresses and the amount of power shared between them remains unknown.

The potential to become a sorceress is determined by one's capacity to wield such power – their natural affinity for magic. This factor helps to determine Sorceress candidates for when a Sorceress passes on all of her power into the next Sorceress. The giving and receiving of
power can be made between any two individuals – it not necessary for them to be related by blood. A Sorceress' lifespan is the same as a normal human's, however they cannot die until they have passed on their power to the next Sorceress."

[One_WinGed_d3mon]

Ultimecia cannot be past rinoa or julia, why?
because it is stated officially by square that soceress has a human lifespan, when one dies another one takes over and keeps going on and on till sh*t happens.

[Rinoa2005]

Sixth: A sorceress' lifespan is no longer than any other human, thus NO ONE in FF8's main timeline could be Ultimecia.


That's not thrue at all.a sorceress have a human lifespan BUT CANNOT DIE until they give up her power and not everybody can become a sorceress. What if there's no one else with the ability of resist the sorceress power??

[G SpOtZ]

The internet breeds lies for the sake of being popular amongst people you will never meet.

That is an awesome quote, I must say.


~Keep it gooey~I agree.
i heard it somewhere...

[Winter Nights]

Sixth: A sorceress' lifespan is no longer than any other human, thus NO ONE in FF8's main timeline could be Ultimecia.


That's not thrue at all.a sorceress have a human lifespan BUT CANNOT DIE until they give up her power and not everybody can become a sorceress. What if there's no one else with the ability of resist the sorceress power??
She's still dying, is the main part. She is just stuck in a state of death until someone comes along. She would not be as all-powerful as Ultimecia is.





The internet breeds lies for the sake of being popular amongst people you will never meet.


That is an awesome quote, I must say.


~Keep it gooey~
I agree.

i heard it somewhere...
;)

[TheAbominatrix]

Just what Autumn Rain said. The evidence is right in the game. As she's dying, she isnt all powerful, strong, virile, she's just not dead yet. When she passes along her powers, she can finally die.

Think of it like someone on life support. They're still alive because something is keeping them alive, but they're weak and on the brink of death.

[Rinoa2005]

[QUOTE=Autumn Rain]Sixth: A sorceress' lifespan is no longer than any other human, thus NO ONE in FF8's main timeline could be Ultimecia.


That's not thrue at all.a sorceress have a human lifespan BUT CANNOT DIE until they give up her power and not everybody can become a sorceress. What if there's no one else with the ability of resist the sorceress power??
She's still dying, is the main part. She is just stuck in a state of death until someone comes along. She would not be as all-powerful as Ultimecia is.

how do you know that for sure?? there's nothing in the game that says that! :mad: :mad2:

[GunbladeMaster]

"What if there's no one else with the ability of resist the sorceress power??"
are u talking about this line or the sorceresses life span thing?

[Rinoa2005]

"What if there's no one else with the ability of resist the sorceress power??"
are u talking about this line or the sorceresses life span thing?





both

[GunbladeMaster]

well Autumn Rain, their has to be SOMEONE in the world of FF8 who will take the sorceresses power willingly and will have the potential needed to become one

as for a sorceresses life span i aready said this:

here straight from Ulimania:

Said to have existed from time immemorial to the present day, the sorceresses are women who are said to have received their powers from the old god, Hyne. There is, however, no hard evidence to support this claim. Extraordinarily powerful, many sorceresses have harboured ambitions to rule over the world – as a result, many people have come to equate the Sorceress with fear. However, there are also many Sorceresses who have chosen to live a quiet life sheltered away from civilized society; as such, the actual number of Sorceresses and the amount of power shared between them remains unknown.

The potential to become a sorceress is determined by one's capacity to wield such power – their natural affinity for magic. This factor helps to determine Sorceress candidates for when a Sorceress passes on all of her power into the next Sorceress. The giving and receiving of
power can be made between any two individuals – it not necessary for them to be related by blood. A Sorceress' lifespan is the same as a normal human's, however they cannot die until they have passed on their power to the next Sorceress."

[TheAbominatrix]

[QUOTE=Autumn Rain]Sixth: A sorceress' lifespan is no longer than any other human, thus NO ONE in FF8's main timeline could be Ultimecia.


That's not thrue at all.a sorceress have a human lifespan BUT CANNOT DIE until they give up her power and not everybody can become a sorceress. What if there's no one else with the ability of resist the sorceress power??
She's still dying, is the main part. She is just stuck in a state of death until someone comes along. She would not be as all-powerful as Ultimecia is.

how do you know that for sure?? there's nothing in the game that says that! :mad: :mad2:

The game does show that, as I explained already. It shows Ultimecia, dying, weak, and useless, searching out Edea to pass on her powers to so that she can finally die.

The Ultimania also confirms this when they say that Sorceresses have a normal lifespan. That means they age, weaken, and wither just like a normal person, but in order to leave the shell of their ordinary body, they have to pass on their powers.

It would make no sense to say they had an ordinary lifespan and have that mean that they have eternal youth and strength until they choose to pass on their powers.

[Winter Nights]

[QUOTE=Autumn Rain]Sixth: A sorceress' lifespan is no longer than any other human, thus NO ONE in FF8's main timeline could be Ultimecia.


That's not thrue at all.a sorceress have a human lifespan BUT CANNOT DIE until they give up her power and not everybody can become a sorceress. What if there's no one else with the ability of resist the sorceress power??
She's still dying, is the main part. She is just stuck in a state of death until someone comes along. She would not be as all-powerful as Ultimecia is.

how do you know that for sure?? there's nothing in the game that says that! :mad: :mad2:

The game does show that, as I explained already. It shows Ultimecia, dying, weak, and useless, searching out Edea to pass on her powers to so that she can finally die.

The Ultimania also confirms this when they say that Sorceresses have a normal lifespan. That means they age, weaken, and wither just like a normal person, but in order to leave the shell of their ordinary body, they have to pass on their powers.

It would make no sense to say they had an ordinary lifespan and have that mean that they have eternal youth and strength until they choose to pass on their powers.
Indeed. What would be the point of them being mortal if they can choose not to die? That doesn't make any sense.

[Rinoa2005]

[QUOTE=Rinoa2005]

The game does show that, as I explained already. It shows Ultimecia, dying, weak, and useless, searching out Edea to pass on her powers to so that she can finally die.

The Ultimania also confirms this when they say that Sorceresses have a normal lifespan. That means they age, weaken, and wither just like a normal person, but in order to leave the shell of their ordinary body, they have to pass on their powers.

It would make no sense to say they had an ordinary lifespan and have that mean that they have eternal youth and strength until they choose to pass on their powers.






even if she want to keep her power, her body will want to die, and that's natural, she'll pass on her power to someone 'WITH THE POTENCIAL TO BECOME' a sorceress. Well she does pass her power on to Edea.But edea is in the past...!! The only reason edea inherits Ulti's power is 'coz of the time compression.
:mad: :mad:

Well now imagine there's no one on Ulti's time with the potencial to become a sorceress...!!
What's she gonna do?? My bet... TC..!!!

[TheAbominatrix]

Um... yes? What's your point, exactly? That confirms what I said.

I doubt Ultimecia started Time Compression in order to pass on her powers. She had no plans of dying anytime soon, and she wanted to destroy everything. Also remember that Ultimecia is the only one who can live in a fully Time Compressed world.

[Rinoa2005]

Um... yes? What's your point, exactly? That confirms what I said.

I doubt Ultimecia started Time Compression in order to pass on her powers. She had no plans of dying anytime soon, and she wanted to destroy everything. Also remember that Ultimecia is the only one who can live in a fully Time Compressed world.



Ohh...Ok... so She'll come and tell squall and co. " Hi I'm Ultimecia and I was wondering if you guys could do me a little favor and kill me Pleaseeee!"
Imagine she's stuck on moment of death, she must be in pain...
but maybe the only way to stop her pain was TC... so she could pass on her power to a sorceress from the past...
now think about this TC will make her like a godness she'll be able to control everything even maybe her death and her pain!

[TheAbominatrix]

Again, I really dont think she was ready to die at this point. She seems in perfect health when the party confronts her, and she doesnt seem like she wants to die due to depression, lonliness, or whatever. She fights hard to destroy the party, not like she had a death wish. Also, if she wanted to do so, she simply could have confronted one of them and passed on her powers.

There's no evidence that she can interact with anyone in Time Compression. She is the only one who can survive, and the only reason she passes her powers onto Edea is because she is taken into a different time (just like Squall was) as Time Compression (which was never acheived) unravels.

As for Time Compression making her all-powerful, there's no evidence of that. There's no evidence that it would give her extra powers to stop her death or to control anything. Time Compression merely acheives her goal of destruction.

But when it comes down to it, we really dont know much about Ultimecia.

[GunbladeMaster]

But when it comes down to it, we really dont know much about Ultimecia.

thats why ultimecia is is actually rinoa;) :D

[TheAbominatrix]

thats why ultimecia is is actually rinoa;) :D

*fwap*

xD

[Rinoa2005]

You're right about that We don't to much about her...
that's why you can find so many theorys about her..
anyway I don't want to be the new future esthar so I'll try my best to stop making theorys without any poof.

oh by the way if anyone here speak spanish pleaseeee I beg you!! Try to contact me!!!

[Winter Nights]

We don't know enough about the specifics of the game to make any accurate assumptions about Time Compression.. But we can state that, based on what we DO know, no one from this current time could be her.

Ultimecia is said to be hailing from many generations into the future.. That would mean our heroes would be long dead. Which would mean Rinoa would have had to die, wait for a several decades in the agony of death for no apparent reason, then make her attack, for this theory to even work.

[GunbladeMaster]

Junction Machine ellone is used in the Future so someone lets say.......................Rinoa hasnt found some one to give her powers to. and at the same time the junction machine ellone is perfected, squall and co die and Rinoa becomes how do u say ......eviiiiiiiiil......hehe
she or some one else can use the machine to time travel
(thats how the machine works right?)

[TheAbominatrix]

All the Machine does is sends someone conciousness into the past, not their body.

Even if it did work by moving someone's body into a different time, why would she choose to go to the future?

Also, as I said earlier, Ultimecia is in perfect health. She isnt dying when we see her.

[GunbladeMaster]

aha
she goes to the future to try and stop the future ultimecia from wreaking havoc but when she gets to the future she forgets about her time and becomes............................eeeeeeeeeeevil......hehe
thus becoming ultimecia and it all repeats

and wats wrong with her suffering for some centuries? shell still be alive when squall and co come to kill her soooooooooooooo it could be her.....................

[Rinoa2005]

We don't know enough about the specifics of the game to make any accurate assumptions about Time Compression.. But we can state that, based on what we DO know, no one from this current time could be her.

Ultimecia is said to be hailing from many generations into the future.. That would mean our heroes would be long dead. Which would mean Rinoa would have had to die, wait for a several decades in the agony of death for no apparent reason, then make her attack, for this theory to even work.

I know i said I'll try to stop. but i don't think she saw her friends die and said "Hey i should become Ultimecia!!" the theory said that she became insane and eventually ended up becoming Ulti. maybe she was constantly atacked by those who were afraid of her, maybe SeeD was afraid of her becoming a evil sorceress and try to get rid of her before she became a menace... and ended up making rinoa insane and becoming Ulti??

[TheAbominatrix]

Yes, that's the general theory, and it just may work if it wasnt for the lifespan of the Sorceress, which doesnt allow for Rinoa to exist, in any form, so far into the future.

[GunbladeMaster]

yeah well the answer is no r=u theory
o well but we can still come up with our own stuff just for fun :D

[Rinoa2005]

All the Machine does is sends someone conciousness into the past, not their body.

Even if it did work by moving someone's body into a different time, why would she choose to go to the future?

Also, as I said earlier, Ultimecia is in perfect health. She isnt dying when we see her.






What if she find another way to go to the future??:confused:

[GunbladeMaster]

well she is a sorceress so she does have magical powers
she could have upgraded the Time magic so much that we could go to the future....

[TheAbominatrix]

That is really really stretching it, and given that the game gives no evidence of this, no hint that such a thing can be done, it isnt logical to say so.

And again, there is no reason for her to go into the future. Why would she want to go into the future to acheive Time Compression? Why not do it in the present time?

[GunbladeMaster]

aha
she goes to the future to try and stop the future ultimecia from wreaking havoc but when she gets to the future she forgets about her time and becomes............................eeeeeeeeeeevil......hehe
thus becoming ultimecia and it all repeats



thats why

[TheAbominatrix]

That still makes no sense. If she's gone crazy, why would she want to stop Ultimecia? If she goes into Ultimecia's time, how would she become Ultimecia if Ultimecia already exists there?

You're grasping at straws desperately in order to prove a theory that has already been disproven.

[GunbladeMaster]

im not trying to prove it
im having fun with this theory

and if u read my post carefully ull have seen that she thought ultimecia was in the future but she wasnt there. while she was in the future she forgot about her time and BECAME ultimecia. and there she created her kingdom of terror because SeeD were trying to kill her

[TheAbominatrix]

But that doesnt make sense. If Ultimecia exists in the future... lets say, for pure speculation, the year 3000. If Rinoa travels to the year 3000, a year in Ultimecia's existance, Ultimecia would already be there. For Rinoa to travel to the future and then become Ultimecia, she'd have to go earlier in the timeline, before Ultimecia had existed... but why would she do that?

And an even bigger question.. how would she know what year Ultimecia existed in? Lets say she decided to go into the future. Well, how would she know how far to travel? They never know what year Ulti exists in... so why would she choose a random year to travel to? And if she does know the years... the above problem exists.

Why would the SeeDs try to kill her? That had already been taken care of after Rinoa was captured and held in the game. The SeeDs have no reason to kill her, especially since Rinoa had proved herself with the others and there was no threat to pre-empt.

[GunbladeMaster]

aw my head

[Gilgamesh of Legends]

You dont control power, power controls you

[TheAbominatrix]

Then that would mean that all Sorceress' in history went crazy with power, which was not the case.

[GunbladeMaster]

Meltdown
Vitality 0
striked down by mod and a teen
beep..........beep...........BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP........................................ ..............:D

[Sir Bahamut]

The Abominatrix has got it right here, in that the ONLY thing which could have made the R=U theory plausible is if a sorceress had extended lifespan. The Ultimania crushed that idea for good, and any other attempt is purely grasping at sraws to enable a theory which isn't even backed up by the game to begin with! Absurd!

However, you got one thing wrong. We don't know all that much about TC, but it WOULD give Ultimecia God-like powers. Firstly, it would place all the sorceress powers from every point in time onto Ultimecia. Since sorceress powers add up, she would be vastly more powerful than even Hyne, who created mankind. On top of that, she goes on to absorb all of time(which would have been compressed) and also space(probably because of her new powers caused by TC). This is all based on Ultimecias scan info by the way, in case you wanted to know.

Anyway, to conclude, it is obvious that by compressing time and absorbing all of time and space, Ultimecia would be a God, with such vast powers that she would certainly be able to recreate space and time in any way she wanted(ie. "..a dimension where [SeeD] will be [her] slaves for eternity!").

[Rinoa2005]

The Abominatrix has got it right here, in that the ONLY thing which could have made the R=U theory plausible is if a sorceress had extended lifespan. The Ultimania crushed that idea for good, and any other attempt is purely grasping at sraws to enable a theory which isn't even backed up by the game to begin with! Absurd!

However, you got one thing wrong. We don't know all that much about TC, but it WOULD give Ultimecia God-like powers. Firstly, it would place all the sorceress powers from every point in time onto Ultimecia. Since sorceress powers add up, she would be vastly more powerful than even Hyne, who created mankind. On top of that, she goes on to absorb all of time(which would have been compressed) and also space(probably because of her new powers caused by TC). This is all based on Ultimecias scan info by the way, in case you wanted to know.

Anyway, to conclude, it is obvious that by compressing time and absorbing all of time and space, Ultimecia would be a God, with such vast powers that she would certainly be able to recreate space and time in any way she wanted(ie. "..a dimension where [SeeD] will be [her] slaves for eternity!").





I agree :) :) TC will give ulti a godlike power...
about the lifespan thing, that's not the only way for the R=U theory to be plausible.
Maybe Rinoa find another way to live longer.

[Sir Bahamut]

You missed my point.

Sure, if you allow yourself to speculate enough you'll probably be able to come up with a way for Rinoa to become Ultimecia, but any such speculation would be based only on your imagination, and as such, would NOT be plausible.

What I mean is that the only way the theory would be plausible is if the game itself made it clear that it was possible, and hints at it as well. However, the game only gives us reason to believe that Rinoa cannot in any way become Ultimecia, so the theory isn't plausible.

[Rinoa2005]

You missed my point.

Sure, if you allow yourself to speculate enough you'll probably be able to come up with a way for Rinoa to become Ultimecia, but any such speculation would be based only on your imagination, and as such, would NOT be plausible.

What I mean is that the only way the theory would be plausible is if the game itself made it clear that it was possible, and hints at it as well. However, the game only gives us reason to believe that Rinoa cannot in any way become Ultimecia, so the theory isn't plausible.



ok you are right.... she's not ulti... i give up:cry: :cry:

[Ishikawa Minoru]

Quite frankly I have a hard time repudiating the R=U theory,mainly because I fell the game would lack much of its meaning if that component is taken away from us.
If you remember when the party asks Doctor Odine why the hell does Ultimecia plan to compress time,he evades the subject all together saying that there must be some reason.
I know some of you have postulated TC would grant Ultimecia the powers of a goddess and all that,but seriously,how much do we know about her to even consider her a worthy opponent.In FFVI we came to know Kefka,whose aspirations were somewhat similar,from the very beggining of the game,we knew he was insane and why he was insane and so on...about Ulti,well,what do we know when she only speaks five or six lines on disk 4??
Furthermore,the Ultimania guide is somewhat vague...Witches might have normal livespans,but cannot die unless they pass on their power.Now,what happens if they,say,live for 150 years w/out passing on their power?There's no clear cut answer and that's why I think they'll be able to leave forever if they refuse to forfeit their power.If they do so,they'll live a normal life.If they don't they'll go on living indefinitely.
if this is true then she might have chosen to go on living...but perhaps she went out of wack and became corrupted.I don't think Grievier is a relevant factor here,but rather a combination of what the party fears the most,like some members have mentioned before.
Once Squall died she might have become lonely,insane,and started planning on a way to get her beloved back forever.That's TC.Either she'd bring him back or,by becoming a Goddess she'd start some sort of new world where everything happened the way she wanted it to happen.
This is just my view,feel free to disagree.

[GunbladeMaster]

o great
now Sir B is gonna come out and argue ur theory
this should be fun :bored:
**gets popcorn**

[Ishikawa Minoru]

o great
now Sir B is gonna come out and argue ur theory
this should be fun :bored:
**gets popcorn**
No need to man,I know when to admit I got it wrong.If she's a normal livespan then she'd age like everybody else and would have the body of a cripple.You guys are right.
But still,I'd like to know why does Ultimecia(through Edea) say that Squall's the one who's destined to kill her?

[Sir Bahamut]

Well, the best theory on Ultimecia I know of, answers your question perfectly. It can be found in the FAQ I've linked to before in this topic, but here it is again:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197343.html

Find the "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ", and go to the section called "An Ultimecian Analysis - The Unjust Persecution". It's all there, including the answer to your question.

[Ishikawa Minoru]

Well, the best theory on Ultimecia I know of, answers your question perfectly. It can be found in the FAQ I've linked to before in this topic, but here it is again:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197343.html

Find the "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ", and go to the section called "An Ultimecian Analysis - The Unjust Persecution". It's all there, including the answer to your question.
Thanks,it really is a very nice piece of work!
I specially like the "Unjust Persecution" theory...you can kinda feel sorry for Ulti there.

[mj05]

I clicked on the gamefaqs link and didnt read much of it just yet..(its really long!). So, what does it come down to? Is it pro/con to the Rinoa-Ultimecia theory?

[Ishikawa Minoru]

I clicked on the gamefaqs link and didnt read much of it just yet..(its really long!). So, what does it come down to? Is it pro/con to the Rinoa-Ultimecia theory?
It's basically the presentation of two different theories pertaining to the nature of time in the world of FFVIII:the static time theory(Sir Bahamut's) and the Dynamic Time Theory(SquallofSeed's);a point by point refutation of the R=U theory and a possible explaination for Ultimecia's psychopathological nature.
It's rather lenghty,but it's certainly one of the best FAQs I've ever read.Highly recommended!

[Rinoa2005]

Quite frankly I have a hard time repudiating the R=U theory,mainly because I fell the game would lack much of its meaning if that component is taken away from us.
If you remember when the party asks Doctor Odine why the hell does Ultimecia plan to compress time,he evades the subject all together saying that there must be some reason.
I know some of you have postulated TC would grant Ultimecia the powers of a goddess and all that,but seriously,how much do we know about her to even consider her a worthy opponent.In FFVI we came to know Kefka,whose aspirations were somewhat similar,from the very beggining of the game,we knew he was insane and why he was insane and so on...about Ulti,well,what do we know when she only speaks five or six lines on disk 4??
Furthermore,the Ultimania guide is somewhat vague...Witches might have normal livespans,but cannot die unless they pass on their power.Now,what happens if they,say,live for 150 years w/out passing on their power?There's no clear cut answer and that's why I think they'll be able to leave forever if they refuse to forfeit their power.If they do so,they'll live a normal life.If they don't they'll go on living indefinitely.
if this is true then she might have chosen to go on living...but perhaps she went out of wack and became corrupted.I don't think Grievier is a relevant factor here,but rather a combination of what the party fears the most,like some members have mentioned before.
Once Squall died she might have become lonely,insane,and started planning on a way to get her beloved back forever.That's TC.Either she'd bring him back or,by becoming a Goddess she'd start some sort of new world where everything happened the way she wanted it to happen.
This is just my view,feel free to disagree.

I think I know what you mean. But is not as if she could just decide that wants to keep her powers and live 4ever. if her body is about to die she'll have to give up her power like it or not.

[MJN SEIFER]

That's debatable:D

The truth is... Jenova is Ultimecia.
Yep, FFVII's 'background villain' is actually Ultimecia.
There is IRREFUTABLE PROOF in both games.

Jenova can survive travel through space. Thus, Jenova could get from one world to another. If the worlds of FFVII and FFVIII are in fact the same world, then this is fine too - Jenova can survive for millennia, buried in solid rock.

"But Jenova was destroyed!" you all cry. Actually, Jenova's body has the ability to re-form when it's dismembered - even when it's apparently dead.

Both Jenova and Ultimecia are female, and both want to attain God-like power and rule over an entire world.

Jenova has the power to change her form. Ultimecia transforms, as well. Jenova can alter her appearance, gaining the appearance and voice of other people. Jenova and Ultimecia look nothing alike, which proves that they are one and the same, just using different forms.

This is utterly, completely, irrefutably, incontrovertibly, undoubtedly, undeniably, undisputably, indubitablly, unquestionably true.
Coz I sez so.


I don't know how serious you are, but you're actualy right!