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Big D
07-13-2005, 12:15 PM
Is chivalry alive, dead, or somewhere in between?

What do you think, and why?

Go forth and vote.

Personally, I reckon chivalry is dying, to the point that it's nearly gone. Few people are chivalrous now, and it's simply not appreciated as it once was, either. But that's just my opinion...

Loony BoB
07-13-2005, 01:41 PM
First thing to do is look at what chivalry actually is.

In war, the chivalrous knight was brave in battle, loyal to his king and God, and willing to sacrifice himself. Towards his fellow Christians and countrymen, the knight was to be merciful, humble, and courteous. Towards ladies above all, the knight was to be gracious and gentle. The idealized relationship between knight and lady was that of courtly love. - Wikipedia.

I don't know too much about the whole battle thing, but I don't think you're referring to that. I'd say that you're more referring to the merciful, humble and courteous aspects, as well as the gracious and gentle.

I don't think chivalry is dying at all. People seem to think that chivalry was a commonplace thing all over the world at some point, when it never really was. It was upheld by most knights, yes. But during medieval times when chivalry was put in place, the world was awash with 'male chauvanist pigs' often worse than the kinds you'd see in the world today.

As for the other end of it, there are still a lot of guys who show the traits of chivalry. The whole independent woman movement does actually hinder chivalry more than anything, I find - I personally believe that women in the world we live in are more likely to break such 'rules' than men.

I don't think it's dead at all, I don't think it was ever a global affair, and I think that the reason it's not noticed so much these days is because women are far more independent and also because of the old 'dirty laundry' aspect of the world: People notice the bad things, not the good things, regardless of how small the bad things are in comparison to the good.

I'm not saying the world is a beautiful place at all, I'm just saying that people think that the past was all glorious when it really wasn't much worse - if worse at all - than it is today. And yes, there is a lot of good in the world if you take the time to notice it.

boris no no
07-13-2005, 01:45 PM
just resting :)

BoBs been thinking about this too much.......

Rye
07-13-2005, 01:46 PM
I think it's resting/almost impossible to find.

Triple T
07-13-2005, 01:47 PM
Well, it's not exactly dead or alive... o.O

It's still practiced sometimes in places- like Medival Times or those historic tourist places, maybe. So unless a celebrety uber important practices it and fans start doing it and liking it, it'll become more popular.

But even if it does become more popular, I doubt it'll be used in war. Simply because a sword & shield won't do good against tanks and guns.

So what I'm saying is that it's dead in the military but it's still alive for other people. :)

EDIT: Courtesy towards women? :p That's dead...

Devourment
07-13-2005, 01:51 PM
Are you on about courtesy towards women or the medieval principles of knighthood?

Psychotic
07-13-2005, 02:30 PM
Dead. Because political correctness says so. Oh, but by dead I mean 100% mortality response. Political correctness says so.

Dr.K
07-13-2005, 02:34 PM
I'd say it's resting.

Cz
07-13-2005, 02:50 PM
People are generally less dependant on one another nowadays, now that you can buy pretty much anything you need down at the mall. Strong communities and neighbourhoods aren't as common anymore, simply because they aren't necessary. Therefore, people aren't as likely to help one another out in everyday life. The same applies to chivalry towards women. Women are more liberated now, and aren't seen as weak or inferior as they once were. Because of their equal standing in today's society, the same level of courtesy is no longer applied. (This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. If women are indeed equal to men, then why should the 'rules' of chivalry favour them?)

So chivalry may be in decline, but I wouldn't go as far to say it is dying. Kindness and courtesy are still common today, just not as obvious. People still hold doors for each other, are polite and gracious, and offer help to those in need on a regular basis. Perhaps it isn't chivalry in the knightly sense of the word, but everyday kindness towards others is still quite widespread, and that's what counts.

Peegee
07-13-2005, 03:08 PM
*opens door for woman*
woman: I CAN OPEN MY OWN DOOR, JERK
*woman kicks pg in the shin*

Actually the above will never happen because the last thing I'll ever do is be chivarious. Haha I so used to be too, and nobody appreciated it, but merely said 'aww so sweet'.

Which is chick speak for 'haha'

Sasquatch
07-13-2005, 07:51 PM
Actually, I personally aspire for chivalry in most aspects of my life. Here, honestly, I don't care, because I won't meet any of you in real life, and I don't care if I piss you off...I'd rather anger people by talking about things I think they should know about than leave them ignorant.

But as for courtesy, I almost always hold doors for ladies, maybe pull out chairs, watch my language around 'em, stuff like that. Not just romantic interests, but lady friends, women I've never met, etc.

I'd say it's alive, but rare. I try to reflect it--by the way, just because soldiers don't carry swords and shields anymore doesn't mean we can't be chivalrous--but most people don't care about it. And I don't really blame 'em, it hasn't really gotten me anywhere. Sure, ladies think I'm sweet, but it's always a friendship instead of a romance...though that can be credited in part to the younger ladies I've pursued and their immaturity in relationships, but as they get older they start looking for more long-term relationships, and thus the guys that would be better long-term partners.

Caspian
07-13-2005, 07:56 PM
Is shielding a girl from the sun on a long walk with a piece of construction paper chivalrous?

I vote yes.

Shlup
07-13-2005, 08:10 PM
STUPID FEMINISTS SCREWED IT UP FOR EVERYONE!

nik0tine
07-13-2005, 08:11 PM
Is shielding a girl from the sun on a long walk with a piece of construction paper chivalrous?

I vote yes.
I also vote yes.

Levian
07-13-2005, 08:15 PM
what. So is this about killing people with lances or about feminism? .. or killing feminism with a lance? I'm quite clueless now.

Hawkeye
07-13-2005, 08:20 PM
Chilvary is 'exausted'

I really need to pick a new tv show

rubah
07-13-2005, 08:31 PM
STUPID FEMINISTS SCREWED IT UP FOR EVERYONE!

STUPID FEMINISTS.

chivalry=cool. I mean, who wouldn't want a guy to make them feel like a lady?

Behold the Void
07-13-2005, 08:40 PM
I tend to be fairly chivalrous myself, so its at least not dead in me. I like a lot of what BoB said, so I'll just say I agree with him :D

Winter Nights
07-13-2005, 09:57 PM
I say "just resting". It's not dead, but it is held at a distance by our politically correct culture.

Cz
07-13-2005, 10:45 PM
STUPID FEMINISTS SCREWED IT UP FOR EVERYONE!I'd agree with you, but I'm a male and can't get away with it.

Destai
07-13-2005, 10:48 PM
STUPID FEMINISTS SCREWED IT UP FOR EVERYONE!Modern feminists seem to feel entitled to both. But everyone hates them so anyway...I voted in decline.

Xaven
07-13-2005, 11:04 PM
I vote it's in decline.

DK
07-13-2005, 11:25 PM
"I hear women say this all the time. I hear a lot of you sisters say, "Chivalry is dead." Don't ya'll feel that way? That men aren't gentlemen anymore? That's right, chivalry is dead. And Women killed it. There's a difference in the way we're going to see things. We're not going to see eye to eye on this. We're just not. Our tests in life are just different. A woman's test in life is material. A man's test in life is a woman. Now by tests I mean those are things in life we desire. Men have nice cars. Not 'cause they like nice cars but because they know women like nice cars. That's how it goes. 'Cause men are hunters and the car is the bait. Woman comes and goes, "Ooh, nice porsche!" Gotcha, bitch!

That's true. Go to a woman's house and it's comfortable as shiet. Women love comfortable surroundings so men get comfortable surroundings. Let me tell you, if a man could screw a woman in a cardboard box he wouldn't buy a house.

But that's still not where chivalry got killed. Chivalry got killed by the feminist movement on those magazines that got women going crazy. Women got too much advice about men from women, and they don't know what the smurf they're talking about. I see this shiet in the magazines. I don't read 'em, but i've seen the cover. Fellas, you've seen this - when you in the grocery store, you see the cover. What's this? "100 ways to please your man by...some lady."

Get out of here. Ain't no hundred ways. There's just four things going. <b>*censored*</b><!--Suck his dick, play with his balls,--> fix him a sandwich and don't talk so much."

Sorry, I know that has nothing to do really with the discussion, but I just remembered reading that sketch again and it cracks me up.

<b>EDIT: I had to censor it a bit but I'm sure you get the idea. -Murder</b>

Yuffie514
07-13-2005, 11:25 PM
ay, the samurai/crusader days are over, except for maybe reality shows.

krissy
07-14-2005, 12:04 AM
we had this thread before so i think it's not sure itself

eestlinc
07-14-2005, 12:15 AM
I try to treat both women and men with respect.

The Summoner of Leviathan
07-14-2005, 01:10 AM
Mark Twain had it pinned down in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

To a certain extent chivalry is good, but I rather just common ediquet (ie excuse yourself when your body makes unfavorable noises, etc...) Like people said before me (I only skimmed), I treat both genders equally. I never go tthe reason why a guy can't hit a girl. I know plenty of girls that could beat me up.

Lionx
07-14-2005, 01:36 AM
Only part of chivraly i dont agree with is the you HAVE to be extremely good to girls part in which i hope it declines because you should be nice to everyone. That and i feel when girls said to be equal i dont think its equal now as it should. Goes against it i feel.

Big D
07-14-2005, 02:29 AM
I'd say that, as social politics have got more complicated, chivalry just isn't respected or appreciated by some people. Courtesy is often seen as a front for something else, perhaps an ulterior motive.
Also, many people enjoy discourteous, inconsiderate behaviour, so they're not going to appreciate acts of niceness.

But it's probably just related to the busier, more hurried, more frantic nature of city life these days. Thousands of people cross your pathe every day; no time and no point in having regard for faces you'll never encounter again.

I don't see that as an excuse for being discourteous, but it could be a reason...

fire_of_avalon
07-14-2005, 02:44 AM
It's not dead, it's just an antiquated concept of behavior. Chivalrous behavior is pretty much unlike anything we've ever seen; it's based around loyalty so unfaltering it's mindless, unequal treatment between the sexes in order to gain superficial favor, the use of force instead of wit to overcome situations, and a my way or the high way attitude over one of compromise.

Just because history makes it look so shiny and nice doesn't mean it didn't have it's drawbacks. There's a difference between courtesy and chivalry.

And if you don't believe me, play FFIX and think about what Steiner learns in reference to chivalry ^_^

Del Murder
07-14-2005, 02:45 AM
Jesters can be knights too, can't they?

fire_of_avalon
07-14-2005, 02:58 AM
No! xD

Del Murder
07-14-2005, 03:06 AM
I know. :(

Yamaneko
07-14-2005, 04:35 AM
Women...

Am I right or what, fellas? :smash:

Hawkeye
07-14-2005, 04:54 AM
Women...

Am I right or what, fellas? :smash:
I cannot refute it. It is as you say

Devourment
07-14-2005, 11:39 AM
Ah, right. I'm rather chivalrous towards women. They deserve it.

DK
07-14-2005, 01:01 PM
Jesters can be knights too, can't they?

Cid's Knights being the perfect example of this. :}

Lionx
07-14-2005, 01:45 PM
I thought they were more porn stars :( They lied!!!!!!