I need a portable entertainment device for my vacations...

[Chzn8r]

... and I'm really stumped. There are 2 material things I love in this world, and that's music and video games. I'm still in the dark ages when it comes to portability.

-I have a standard CD player and have to carry around 2 huge wallets just to have ~80 albums at my disposal. So of course I know the clear and instant advantages of an MP3 player, in so many ways. Yet the worthwhile ones to invest in are all very expensive ($200, $300, etc...) and I'm not sure if I want to spend that right now. So if I choose a portable music device, I will either:
A) Get an iPod, a trusted brand that may be a little pricey
B) Get a different drive-based MP3 player that's cheaper but doesn't have as much of the guarunteed quality, or
C) Get a disk/card-based MP3 player that I can just put a few albums on at a time, then have to replace them. Smaller and cheaper but not as smart of an investment compared to the bigger ones.

On to video games...
-The last Gameboy I owned was, you guessed it, fatty, which I only had Pokemon Red/Blue, Metroid 2, Zelda Link's Awakening, and Mario Land 2 for. Of course, I've gotten my continued GB/GBC/GBA fix through emulators... but I can never play them away from my computer (don't suggest a PSP or a palm pilot, plzkthx). My toss up here, if I go for a game device, is whether to:
A) Buy a Nintendo DS, which right now would be the most expensive, and has the wireless multiplayer/online possibilities, but not much of that will be realized for me for a while.
B) Buy a Gameboy Advance SP, which would still allow me to pick up and play all old GB/GBC games, and is of course much much cheaper. Plus, I could potentially pay $60-80 for one of these now, and trade it in for $30-40 around the holidays towards a DS.
C) Wait for a Gameboy Micro...? Nah, not my thing, even though it could have a great pricepoint. It's not for avid gamers anyways, can't play older games and the screen is only 2 inches.

Keep in mind that this has to be some money well speant, though that shouldn't be a problem as either a portable system with hundreds/thousands of games, or a music player that I can always load up with tons of music depending on my mood will make a good choice.

And of course there's the 3rd option, just buy Half-Blood Prince exclusively and read it on all my upcoming plane/car trips, though I was going to do that anyways :D

[Meat Puppet]

my hand just works for me

[Destai]

I just bought an ipod 20 gb. Its brilliant. The battery is improved, you can upload up to 20,000 pictures from your pc in full colour with the detail of a digital camera (its not an ipod photo) and uo to 5,000 songs. I have a gameboy advance and its great also. Id just buy the old model of GBA at a discount.

[Rye]

my hand just works for me

And your AVATAR. >:o

[Lindy]

iPods are NOT guaranteed quality, you'll be following hype, not good reviews. I considered one, then I actually looked around at other possibilities, and I was impressed by every single alternative.

The sound quality on an iPod is sub-par compared to most of the latest MP3 players, it has a more powerful output, but not the quality to match it, couple that with the fact that the higher output burns down the battery insanely fast, you'd be better off with a higher quality player, lower output and better quality headphones.

Something like the Zen Touch : http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=10274

Zen NX (One of which I own, and I am VERY happy with it): http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=10274

Or maybe a MuVo : http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=215&product=10659

With Creative, considering they've been in the business of MP3 players for longer than Apple, have a wider range of products and are proven BETTER by specification, you'll have more guaranteed quality with them.

Don't get an iPod, it's equivalent to just taking more money and flushing it down a toilet.

Compare prices :

$197 for a 30gb Zen NX on Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002BRMNA/qid=1121619282/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-2441751-9723117?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

$259 for a 20gb Plain iPod : http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002OZXHO/104-2441751-9723117?v=glance&s=electronics&n=172594 (You have to add to cart to see the price)

Logic prevails, no?

In terms of gaming, get a Gameboy Advance SP, there are no overly impressive DS games out right now compared to a wide library of GBA games, get that for now, enjoy it lots and then trade it in if and when you want a DS. Plus, you can't play old Gameboy games on a DS, only GBA games.

[Chzn8r]

you can upload up to 20,000 pictures from your pc in full colour with the detail of a digital camera (its not an ipod photo) and uo to 5,000 songs.

:p I can fit about 2,500 songs on a 20 GB iPod. Apple assumes all your songs are 3 minutes long.
And I didn't plan on using it for pictures, but yeah, there's that possibility.

Any more opinions on this decision would be great help.

[Rye]

iPods are NOT guaranteed quality, you'll be following hype, not good reviews. I considered one, then I actually looked around at other possibilities, and I was impressed by every single alternative.

The sound quality on an iPod is sub-par compared to most of the latest MP3 players, it has a more powerful output, but not the quality to match it, couple that with the fact that the higher output burns down the battery insanely fast, you'd be better off with a higher quality player, lower output and better quality headphones.

Something like the Zen Touch : http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=10274

Zen NX (One of which I own, and I am VERY happy with it): http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=10274

Or maybe a MuVo : http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=215&product=10659

With Creative, considering they've been in the business of MP3 players for longer than Apple, have a wider range of products and are proven BETTER by specification, you'll have more guaranteed quality with them.

Don't get an iPod, it's equivalent to just taking more money and flushing it down a toilet.

In terms of gaming, get a Gameboy Advance SP, there are no overly impressive DS games out right now compared to a wide library of GBA games, get that for now, enjoy it lots and then trade it in if and when you want a DS. Plus, you can't play old Gameboy games on a DS, only GBA games.

I like the sound quality on the iPod. The only time it was bad was when I was listening to .wav files, which isn't too shocking. I like my 20 GB iPod a lot, but I'd consider bringing my walkman along on a long trip as the iPod's battery life is abysmal. It takes 2-4 hours to charge completely and you get about that much time with it before you need to charge it again.

Though the iPod is pretty nice, despite it's flaws.

I'd recommend a good old GBA and if you have lots of money, a portable DVD player. :)

[Aphelion]

I'd get an iPod and a GBA (SP, if possible). The latter because it is simply THE BEST portable game machine ever created. I don't know if I'm the only one to consider it that or not, but that's only my humble opinion. And then, I'd get an iPod, which seems to be a new worldwide hit and - of course - it's very useful.

It's all up to you: if you think buying both wouldn't be a "money well-spent", don't do it, but those are definitely the choices I'd consider.

Hope it helps.

[omnitarian]

SP vs DS? Well, the fact that you don't own any GBA games (I'm assuming) pretty much makes it a toss-up. I don't know if a net cost of $20 would be worth playing your old Toasterboy games for a few days. Then again, the DS might go down in cost before the holidays, but since they already have the DS + free SM64DS thing going on, we can't really be sure. I guess I would opt for a DS if you're just going to sell the SP anyway.

[Necronopticous]

Go for the PSP!

[Lindy]

~<FONT color="GOLD">It's a good comic, though the profanity makes it inappropriate. -Necronopticous</FONT>

iPods only support AAC, MP3, WAV and AIFF, good luck trying to get anything else to go on it.

I tried looking up technical specs on the apple site, but it lacks anything other than the frequency response.

About the only advantages I can see for an iPod is Firewire support, but that's only useful if you're transferring massive quantities of data, USB2.0 is fine for everything else, and the size.

In terms of the actual musical playback, battery life, every other player wins, in fact most of them are as small as the iPod now anyway so that advantage is severely lacking.

Oh, and the whole photo thing, but what the hell is the point of having photos on an <b>MP3</b> player? It's like the stupid excesses of the PSP, having an MP3 player, movie player, internet access...oh yeah, and it like, sometimes plays games, you know?

[ZeZipster]

I say you should get a PSP. I've hacked my PSP to play a bunch of NES, SNES, and GB games. I could sit there and play it for days, just like I could my SNES/NES back when I was a munchkin.

[Necronopticous]

I say you should get a PSP. I've hacked my PSP to play a bunch [...] SNES [...] games.The NES sure is nice, but skipping frames to make the SNES games run at normal speed is so irritating ;( I sure hope Y and the gang fix up the core programming to fix the speed issues.

And I wouldn't say <i>you</i> hacked it xD Isn't that taking too much credit?

[ZeZipster]

I say you should get a PSP. I've hacked my PSP to play a bunch [...] SNES [...] games.The NES sure is nice, but skipping frames to make the SNES games run at normal speed is so irritating ;( I sure hope Y and the gang fix up the core programming to fix the speed issues.

Ditto, but to be honest I had already dealt with frame skipping on my old slow computer, so I'm kind of used to it. If they do, I might buy a 1 gig mem stick just to put GBA games on it too.

[Lindy]

Ok, now THAT is one of the good things about the PSP, but it's just so damned expensive to get the sticks to hold all of the stuff.

[Chzn8r]

I'd buy a PSP if it were $150 and the good sticks weren't $100+. Right now I'd be spending over $350 just to emulate old games on the go, and occasionally play some music.

[Necronopticous]

Ok, now THAT is one of the good things about the PSP, but it's just so damned expensive to get the sticks to hold all of the stuff.Honestly, video is really the only reason you'd ever have to go huge on a memory stick. Even the 32 M stick that comes with the PSP holds my savegames, NES emulator with tons of roms, and my SNES emulator with a couple roms.

I bought a 1 G stick but it was defective so I'm waiting for the replacement to come back from SanDisk. Until then I've been using my 32 M one and it's been doing just find holding everything that I've needed so far. I'm quite sure that with a 128M or so you'd be totally set, like I said, unless you want to have video playing off of your memory stick.
I'd buy a PSP if it were $150 and the good sticks weren't $100+. Right now I'd be spending over $350 just to emulate old games on the go, and occasionally play some music.You definately pay for the quality. Luckily, you do get what you pay for.

[Lindy]

I do wonder how far emulation on the PSP can go.

It can play NES and SNES, so that should naturally lead to Genesis emulation, as well as a lot of arcade games.

Then you think, can it emulate up to the level of the PSX? If you have a 1gb stick, you can hold the ISOs, and if it can do PSX, then it should be able to do Saturn and the even more recent, graphically heavy arcade games.

Now could it go even further than that? Emulate early PS2 games maybe, the ones that ran on CD?

[ZeZipster]

I've got a 128 and am currently holding:

13 songs
3 NES games
18 SNES games
with .5 MB to spare

Battletoads runs pretty smoothly if I overclock it. Weird... I'm just now realizing that out of the 21 games I've got I only play Battetoads and FF1.

[Necronopticous]

There are emulators for it for everything post 32 bit era, including GBA and such. Unfortunately, the SNES and probably other equal systems emulators run fairly slow on the PSP hardware. I'm fairly sure that if they clean up the core programming they can make them run normal speed but I'd say PSX and other 32 bit era systems are out of the question.

Right now you can have the emulator skip frames to compensate for the slowdown on the SNES emulator.

[Zeldy]

Well, for starters, how many songs would you want with you?
I have a Mini Zen Creative only costing me £134 [The Ipod is around £300] and its a 5g [1250 songs]
For me, thats more than enough, and Zen is a very good make, alot better than an Ipod!

"Creative's Zen Micro is the digital audio player with attitude. Designed with ergonomics in mind, it's micro-sized and fits naturally into the hand, placing the touch-sensitive control pad in the perfect position for navigation with just one finger. The Zen Micro will store up to 2,500 songs in WMA or 1,250 in MP3 on its 5GB hard disk."

I have the DS aswell, ive also had the GBP, GBC, GBA and the GBSP,im a Nintendo fan girl to be honest, The DS is awesome though, but the games are expensive and there isnt a good range out as of yet, so maybe wait awhile yeah?
Im not really a fan of the SP, its the worst imo, i dont like how you hold it, i still love the Advance, its still my favourite <333

[Yamaneko]

Get a Creative MP3 player. They are low-priced and very good quality. I've dropped my Zen Micro numerous times and it still works flawlessly. I think, though, the best selling point is that many of the Creative products have removable batteries. After a while the iPod's battery will lose its charge and you'll either have to spend $50+ on a battery replacement kit, or you'll have to send it in to Apple and they'll charge you for the replacement battery and service. The Creative Zen's battery is something like $30 and it takes ten seconds to replace it.

As for your handheld gaming. Get the SP. With your collection of GB games, you'll probably get more use out of it than a DS. Be warned, however, the GBA is slowly dying out.

The DS can emulate as well. It's just a little trickier than doing it on a PSP. You'll need a flash cart and a WiFi-me or Passme hack to replace the current DS BIOS with one that can run homebrew code on it.

[Destai]

iPods are NOT guaranteed quality, you'll be following hype, not good reviews. I considered one, then I actually looked around at other possibilities, and I was impressed by every single alternative.

The sound quality on an iPod is sub-par compared to most of the latest MP3 players, it has a more powerful output, but not the quality to match it, couple that with the fact that the higher output burns down the battery insanely fast, you'd be better off with a higher quality player, lower output and better quality headphones.

Something like the Zen Touch : http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=10274

Zen NX (One of which I own, and I am VERY happy with it): http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=10274

Don't get an iPod, it's equivalent to just taking more money and flushing it down a toilet.

Compare prices :

$197 for a 30gb Zen NX on Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002BRMNA/qid=1121619282/sr=8-1/ref=pd bbs 1/104-2441751-9723117?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

$259 for a 20gb Plain iPod : http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002OZXHO/104-2441751-9723117?v=glance&s=electronics&n=172594 (You have to add to cart to see the price)
I have the newest ipod 20 gb and its really really great. I love it. I charge itfor three-5 hours or longer and its worked fine all day with several people using it for music so I certainly wouldnt say it goes insanely fast though I dont have much expierience with MP3 players in general but its been running for more than 12 hours and its still working fine. You can use any pair of ear phones on most MP3 players and ipod is one of them. And what you mean by sound quality I dont really know, it plays the music as good as another small mp3 player I used to use and as well as my disc man. I dont see anything to complain about with sound quality. I paid the price you mentioned and the ipod I have so far has been worth every cent. I dont know much about your mp3 player but does it have as many options and uses as the ipod?

Music, photos, playlists, artists, albums, compilations, songs,genres, composers, audiobooks, extras, clock, contacts, calendar,notes, photo import, voice memos, games, settings, shuffle songs, backlight, sleep timer and more options like that? I mean if you add all those things up and another mp3 player like the ones youve mentioned cant do most of them then yeah I think its fair for it to be at that price. But I generally dont know wether or not it can do those things. Also the screen is in full colour for the plain ipods now which is pretty class in my opinion and the pictures it uploaded from my pc in seconds were at digital camera quality and maybe this is just my perosnal collection of pictures but the pictures are very entertaining to look at, the same way my friends like looking at each others pictures on there mobile phones. And I really like the touch wheel. Its a cool feature to have on an MP3 player. Yeah its not a big deal at all but it is nice to have and easy to use. I expect you have more expierience with the techs of mp3 players than me, Lindy but with all those things included if another mp3 player cantdo most of those things then I certainly think its been worth the money I paid for it. Sure I bought an overpriced mp3 player at first but the additionals have made me very happy with my purchase.

[Necronopticous]

Get the SP. With your collection of GB games, you'll probably get more use out of it than a DS. Be warned, however, the GBA is slowly dying out.I love the GBA SP, in my opinion it's close to a perfect handheld console. Unfortunately, handhelds don't last like home consoles in the shadow of a new generation. GBAs are very quickly dying out, there aren't going to be many new games from now on, and I'd say it won't be an incredibly long time before retailers stop carrying new GBA games. It's a wonderful system, but only get it if you're happy with what's around right now.

[Rye]

No fair, mine is a 20 GB, but it's black and white. xD

It was 300 dollars too. :(

[Destai]

No fair, mine is a 20 GB, but it's black and white. xD

It was 300 dollars too. :(Poor you, I think this model was just released a few days before I bought mine online (with free name engravement which is a little comforting if it were to ever get lost) but hey one day (porbably before the end of this year my ipod will seem be outclassed by some other 20gb ipod. Ipods go like hot caked on ebay Rye. If you sold it and had a bit of money to add to it you might be able to buy a newer version. :confused:

[Zeldy]

http://www.macitynet.it/artimgs/aA20753/img1.jpg
I Have the White one :love:

£134 from Currys

[Lindy]

Music, photos, playlists, artists, albums, compilations, songs,genres, composers, audiobooks, extras, clock, contacts, calendar,notes, photo import, voice memos, games, settings, shuffle songs, backlight, sleep timer and more options like that?
And how many of those do you actually NEED?

Every MP3 player has ID3 tags, so your artist/album/compilation point is moot, and all Creative players have those ways to find songs split up like that. Audiobooks are just MP3 files, and Creative players come with a bookmark setting so you can save where you were in a track.

Clock, yeah, that's a given, backlight yes, of course it has shuffle, as well as an alarm and sleep timer.

Now comes the rest of it, why do you need a calender, games, photos, or things like that IN AN MP3 PLAYER? When you know, the point is to play MP3s.

By sound quality, I mean that the iPod cuts out large portions of the actual music, because it lacks the range to cover them, yes MP3s are a lossy format, but most people encode them at 192 or 192 VBR, but iPods can't handle much beyond a very narrow range, so you miss out on a lot of the music, in the same way that a bad pair of headphones won't help either. Like, a bass beat in the background of a song, or some parts of drum beats, certain vocals and backing, things like that.

So really, put like that, the Creative player I have can do everything your iPod can, without the extraneous crap, at a much lower price.

Oh, and it charges to full from empty in about an hour too, after the first charge anyway, rather than taking three like your iPod.

[Yamaneko]

<img src="http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15322&stc=1">

Out in a few months.

[Zeldy]

Get a Creative MP3 player. They are low-priced and very good quality. I've dropped my Zen Micro numerous times and it still works flawlessly. I think, though, the best selling point is that many of the Creative products have removable batteries. After a while the iPod's battery will lose its charge and you'll either have to spend $50+ on a battery replacement kit, or you'll have to send it in to Apple and they'll charge you for the replacement battery and service. The Creative Zen's battery is something like $30 and it takes ten seconds to replace it.


Ive dropped myn once and somebody stood on it =3 It suffered a minor scratch.
But theres one thing negative about it that ive found, myn has a tendancy to freeze and i have to take out the battery and insert it back in again, why is that?
Im thinking it may be the time it got wet, id put it in my bag and my bag fell over and it was pouring it down that day, how long it was there i dont know :( :weep:

[ZeZipster]

<img src="http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15322&stc=1">

Out in a few months.

Don't think that site allows hotlinking. All I see is dapreview.

Fixed. :) ~Yams

[Destai]

And how many of those do you actually NEED?I dont need any of them. I bought the mp3 player for portable entertainment and killing boreddom. It does that very well.


Every MP3 player has ID3 tags, so your artist/album/compilation point is moot, and all Creative players have those ways to find songs split up like that. Audiobooks are just MP3 files, and Creative players come with a bookmark setting so you can save where you were in a track.Bookmark? What like a pause button? Even ignoring the pause button you can fast forward through a track comfortably with the click wheel and quickly also. Not a big deal on either players part. All those ways of slpitting songs up have different effect but theyre all handy.


Now comes the rest of it, why do you need a calender, games, photos, or things like that IN AN MP3 PLAYER? When you know, the point is to play MP3s.Because its fun and handy. Calenders to know the date, games to kill boredom (the games are pretty addictive also), me and my friends love looking at the different photos wether theyre funny or just interesting in sme other way. If I can have a good(to say the least in my op) music player and all those things in my pocket Im very pleased with the buy.


By sound quality, I mean that the iPod cuts out large portions of the actual music, because it lacks the range to cover them, yes MP3s are a lossy format, but most people encode them at 192 or 192 VBR, but iPods can't handle much beyond a very narrow range, so you miss out on a lot of the music, in the same way that a bad pair of headphones won't help either. Like, a bass beat in the background of a song, or some parts of drum beats, certain vocals and backing, things like that.Ah now I undersand the meaning. I used a disc man with a digital bass boost for months before I bought the ipod listening to the same songs over and over again. Well you seem confident that theres some loss of quality so you're probably right but I havent noticed any loss of quality in my ipod so its probably not a large cut in sound quality.

So really, put like that, the Creative player I have can do everything your iPod can, without the extraneous crap, at a much lower price.So the creative player can do everything my ipod can except for the stuff the creative player cant do that my ipod can but it just so happens that stuff all sucks anyway? Ok got it, thanks.


Oh, and it charges to full from empty in about an hour too, after the first charge anyway, rather than taking three like your iPod.Of course the ipod takes longer. Its so much more. But at least the time taken to charge is worth it.

[Lindy]

Bookmarking is saving a point in a track, so that you can pull up the bookmark again at any time and switch to it instantly. I forget how many bookmarks you can set up, but there are plenty.

You know you could use like, a real calender to know the date? I know it's shocking to actually involve something solid and physical, but that CAN sometimes work. And on my Zen NX, along with the time as a screensaver, it has the current date as well, scratch another "fancy" iPod function.


So the creative player can do everything my ipod can except for the stuff the creative player cant do that my ipod can but it just so happens that stuff all sucks anyway? Ok got it, thanks.
You're so cute when you're confused.

Creative = MP3 player with useful functions
iPod = MP3 player with the same functions, most likely less than the Creative Players, lower music quality, shorter battery life, but to make up for that you get games and photos, and it costs a whole lot more.

Wow, great tradeoff.

What do you mean "Of course the iPod takes longer, it's so much more"? It really isn't. Creative players have either the same or better battery life, yet charge faster, so how does that make sense for iPods? Add in, as Yams said, the fact that you can remove and replace batteries and you can go on forever without needing to charge if you just carry around a few spare batteries.

The "innovative" iPod scroll wheel is simplified on most Creative players in the form of just a small wheel on the side you scroll up or down, the rest of the buttons lay on the sides so you can use them while the player is in it's case, unlike iPod which must be removed from it in order to change whatever you want. The Creative wheel works just as well as the iPod, if not better.

The whole point about the iPod is style over substance, and if you want that, you get what you pay for. Basically, just a sub-standard player coated in gold.

You can go on all you want about "opinions" too, which I expect will be the next line of argument, but in factual terms it's just like this :

iPods are expensive fashion statements, they lack real substance, comparing sound quality, battery life, format-compatibility and technical specifications, the iPod loses out on every turn to Creative players. But, people still buy iPods because they want to be fashionable, and that will sadly always be the way it is.

[Destai]

Bookmarking is saving a point in a track, so that you can pull up the bookmark again at any time and switch to it instantly. I forget how many bookmarks you can set up, but there are plenty.So If Im 2.05 minutes though a song I "bookmark" it and return to it some other time from where I eft off anytime I want? Thats a pretty crap feature. After an ammount of time Ill just want to listen to the song again from the start.

You know you could use like, a real calender to know the date? I know it's shocking to actually involve something solid and physical, but that CAN sometimes work. And on my Zen NX, along with the time as a screensaver, it has the current date as well, scratch another "fancy" iPod function.Why would I bother checking a real calendar anytime I want to know the date whenI could check it on my ipod? Because you needed a comeback and the well was running dry?



So the creative player can do everything my ipod can except for the stuff the creative player cant do that my ipod can but it just so happens that stuff all sucks anyway? Ok got it, thanks.
You're so cute when you're confused.

Creative = MP3 player with useful functions
iPod = MP3 player with the same functions, most likely less than the Creative Players, lower music quality, shorter battery life, but to make up for that you get games and photos, and it costs a whole lot more.Well it doesnt cost a whole lot more and yeah, games and photos do make up for the unnoticeable lack of sound quality and slower battery life and way more options and enjoyable features.

Wow, great tradeoff.umm...yeah, pretty much.


What do you mean "Of course the iPod takes longer, it's so much more"? It really isn't. Creative players have either the same or better battery life, yet charge faster, so how does that make sense for iPods? Add in, as Yams said, the fact that you can remove and replace batteries and you can go on forever without needing to charge if you just carry around a few spare batteries.Yeah it is more. It has all those extra features, and now the photos and better quality on the screen. "Omg but the battery life!1-"

The "innovative" iPod scroll wheel is simplified on most Creative players in the form of just a small wheel on the side you scroll up or down, the rest of the buttons lay on the sides so you can use them while the player is in it's case, unlike iPod which must be removed from it in order to change whatever you want. The Creative wheel works just as well as the iPod, if not better.You mean half a small black wheel sticking out the side. Yeah in comparison to that the ipod wheels pretty innovative and nicer to handle. its just a cooler accesory, excuse me for not being old school enough.

The whole point about the iPod is style over substance, and if you want that, you get what you pay for. Basically, just a sub-standard player coated in gold.Yeah and all the added features and alot of songs in campariosn to most mp3 players(Not the creative its safe to assume) and the colur screen and photos and other fun stuff. Its good to say the very least on the inside and if the outside is considered stylish well thats an added bonus. it seems more like winwin all round. Even if other players and items can top particular features it can still do alot more than most or at least thats the impression Im getting.


iPods are expensive fashion statements, they lack real substance, comparing sound quality, battery life, format-compatibility and technical specifications, the iPod loses out on every turn to Creative players. But, people still buy iPods because they want to be fashionable, and that will sadly always be the way it is.Possibly or maybe ipds just really are pretty good all round. Alot of people feel like theyve made a deep statement in pointing out just because somethings popular doesnt mean its good. Oddly enough the ipod is pretty darn good even though its popular if you can understand that it can actually be both.

[ZeZipster]

Pros


* Size. iPod is still one of the smallest and lightest hard-disk player on the market.
* Weight. At under 6 ounces, you can barely feel it in your pocket.
* User Interface. Simple and efficient. It needs almost no explanation for new users.
* Fit and Finish. Top notch - no gaps or screws visible, excellent materials.
* Durability. The touch-wheel reduces the number of mechanical parts.
* Available accessories. Dozens of stands and cases and even a custom parts availble.
* Fan base. As the best selling MP3 player there is a large community to become a part of.
* Company support. Apple is a stable company offering a 1 year warantee when most companies only offer a 90-day warantee. Apple offers an extended warantee called AppleCare.
* Mass Storage Device support. Data files can be offloaded from the player with no software required.
* 3rd party software. Ephod is an excellent software interface for loading music, and its free. Anapod is another option for $25.
* PDA functions. Contacts and Calendar are handy.
* Screen. The hi-res screen is easy to read even from waist-level.
* In-line remote. Small, metal and handy. Feels durable.



Cons


* Price. iPod is the most expensive MP3 player, but its also the smallest hard-disk player.
* Included Software. For PC users, MusicMatch Jukebox is included which many people strongly dislike. Like me. However an excellent replacement called Ephpod is available for free.
* Transfer interface. Firewire is more applicable to Apple uses, most PC users have USB1 or USB2.
* Scratchable base. The chromed bottom of iPod is sexy but easily scratched.
* No on-the-fly playlists.
* Not upgradble. The built-in hard disks are custom built for apple, so there's no way to increase the storage beyond the orignal capacity.



Wanted


* Better battery replacement policy. Note: Replacement batteries have been located for $50 at www.iPodbattery.com (Laptops4Less)
* View text files for ebooks, notes, etc.
* When browsing, album titles and song titles that are long will extend off the screen. For instance, with an album title like "Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's Symphoney #1000", you won't see the last half because it has too many characters to fit on one line. They need to make the highlighted song title or album scroll horizontally if it goes off the screen, with user-selectable speed settings.
* Display more ID3 information during song play, like file type, bitrate, file size, etc.
* On-board file manangement. Ability to delete tracks that you don't like from the player itself.
* .Ogg support and support for a lossless compression scheme (FLAC, Monkey Audio, etc).
* The in-line remote needs a better clip.
* The included nylon case is high quality material but isn't very useful since they didn't have a cutout for the screen or controls. You have to completey remove the iPod from the case in order to control it.
* Built-in FM radio would be nice in future versiobs - but not if it would force an increase in the iPod's dimensions.
* More lines of text when browsing. In other words, an option to decrease the font size. In comparison,
* Direct iPod to iPod music transfers. Wishful thinking, but it can be done, considering the firewire verison of Zen has this function.
* Instead of breakout for the built-in game, which sucks, how about tetris?


Yeah... It has it's advantages and disadvantages. Whether or not the advantages are worth the extra pay is a matter of opinion. So you two should just agree to disagree.

[Rye]

The bottom surface of the iPod is NOT sexy. It's awful. It's all finger printed and scratched. My screen got scratched within a week of owning it. :/

[Destai]

Fine, I'll agree to disagree but some the cons have been improved and added to the new ipods at the same price as the old ones for anyone whos interested.

[Lindy]

Right, you have bookmarks still totally wrong.

Say I'm listening to a 10 minute long track, I set a bookmark at 2 minutes, one at 5 minutes, one at 7 minutes.

I stop listening to it, go back to it any time, and I can just choose from the bookmark list and hop to that point, you're not FORCED to do that, you can if you want it.


Well it doesnt cost a whole lot more and yeah, games and photos do make up for the unnoticeable lack of sound quality and slower battery life and way more options and enjoyable features.
I know how you keep going on about this, but really, we went through it, but whatever, lets do it again. So you've said photos and games are extra features, what OTHER extra features does it have? Please, enlighten me, because all you say is "photos and games, photos and games".

[Destai]

Well I wont spam this thread much further but Ill pm you the answer to your questions.

[Lindy]

No kid, you post them here, it's a discussion, I think the world needs to see the vast features of the iPod.

[Endless]

Have the White one :love:

£134 from Currys


So do I. I <3 it.

[Destai]

No kid, you post them here, it's a discussion, I think the world needs to see the vast features of the iPod.That wasnt me chickening out of a response if youd like people to think that but fine,

One thing thats very nice and has alot of quality to it is the colour screen. Its classy. The main menu is customisable so you can have as many features as you want on the front page or as few.

These are a summary of the options leading from my personal main menu.

Music -

Playlists- which opens up into different categories of x0's music (whatever year) , My top rated, Recently added, Recently played, Top 25 most played and on the go which is acessed by holding the center button an any song and that song is added to that playlist.

Artists- Displaying artists name
Albums- " Albums "
Songs- listing the collection of songs.
Genres- Lists genres
Composers- " composers
and audio books.

Photos- displayed in perfect quality list you total pictures, your slideshow settings which contains all the details on the slide show. (slideshow is activated by clicking on any picture) and theres diffderent folders dividing up all your photos

Extras-

Clock- which gives the time in large numbers in 12 or 24 hr, has alarm clock, has sleep timer and date and time all of which lead into a list of deifferent categories for setting them and theyre details

contacts- stores up to one thousand contacts. Showing the details of name, occupations, company, telephones, email address, office address and normal address per person. and intructions and smaples for using them.

Calendar- Showing a full years calendar, a to do list marked on it and alarms to remind of occasions as well as different noises for the alarms.

Notes- just notes to check up on.

Games- including brick, parachute and solitaire as well as a music quiz which plays a quick sample of one song and you mucst answer what song it was from a selection as quick as you can.

Settings-

About- shows my personal details and the details of my ipod

Main menu- which is for customizing whats on your main menu

Shuffle- for shuffleing either songs or albums,

repeat- for one song or all of the album or choices you have playing

Backlight- for checking how long your back light stays on

Audio books- for the details on your audio books

EQ- I dont know what this is. You can have it off or set to acoutsic, bass booster, bas resucer, classical, dance, deep, electronic, flat, hip hop, jazz, latin, loudness, lounge, piano, pop, R&B, Rock, Small speakers, Spoken word, Treble boosterTreble reducer, Vocal booster

Compilations- dont know what theyre for, turns compilations off or on

Sound check- dunno, turns off or on

Clicker- chooses wether scrolling through list makes a click noise on headphones, speakers (outloud), or both

Date and time- goes into time zones, time in title screen and setting date and time etc.

contacts- for sorting details on your contacts list

language - decideds language of ipod, includes japanese symbols (which is kinda cool)

Legal- legal disclaimer

Reset all settings- undoes all your changes to ipod.

And thats pretty much it.

[Endless]

For the record, I have a Zen Micro 5Gb, white.


That wasnt me chickening out of a response if youd like people to think that but fine,

One thing thats very nice and has alot of quality to it is the colour screen. Its classy. The main menu is customisable so you can have as many features as you want on the front page or as few.

These are a summary of the options leading from my personal main menu.

Music -

Playlists- which opens up into different categories of x0's music (whatever year) , My top rated, Recently added, Recently played, Top 25 most played and on the go which is acessed by holding the center button an any song and that song is added to that playlist.

Ah, I have to admit I can't customize the menu. Big whoopdeedoo.


Artists- Displaying artists name

I have that too.


Albums- " Albums "

That too.


Songs- listing the collection of songs.

Same.


Genres- Lists genres

Same.


Composers- " composers

Difference with Artist?


and audio books.

Never listened to one. Paper book ftw.

I can also choose my recordings, my bookmarks, and the DJ menu (album of the day, most listened to, less listened to, random play all).


Photos- displayed in perfect quality list you total pictures, your slideshow settings which contains all the details on the slide show. (slideshow is activated by clicking on any picture) and theres diffderent folders dividing up all your photos

I prefer watching my pictures on my comp, or if I can't, on my laptop. Otherwise I don't need it, my camera displays pictures fine, why would I watch them on my mp3 player?


Extras-

Clock- which gives the time in large numbers in 12 or 24 hr, has alarm clock, has sleep timer and date and time all of which lead into a list of deifferent categories for setting them and theyre details

I have that too.


contacts- stores up to one thousand contacts. Showing the details of name, occupations, company, telephones, email address, office address and normal address per person. and intructions and smaples for using them.

I don't use it, but it's available to me (not sure about what is displayed, however, I can sync it with Outlook).


Calendar- Showing a full years calendar, a to do list marked on it and alarms to remind of occasions as well as different noises for the alarms.

Month per month calendar for me. Not that I use it anyway.


Notes- just notes to check up on.

I have that too.

I have a microphone, does your iPod have that?


Games- including brick, parachute and solitaire as well as a music quiz which plays a quick sample of one song and you mucst answer what song it was from a selection as quick as you can.

*hugs his handeld consoles* Don't need the iPod/cellphone games. :D


Settings-

About- shows my personal details and the details of my ipod

Main menu- which is for customizing whats on your main menu

Shuffle- for shuffleing either songs or albums,

repeat- for one song or all of the album or choices you have playing

Backlight- for checking how long your back light stays on

Audio books- for the details on your audio books

EQ- I dont know what this is. You can have it off or set to acoutsic, bass booster, bas resucer, classical, dance, deep, electronic, flat, hip hop, jazz, latin, loudness, lounge, piano, pop, R&B, Rock, Small speakers, Spoken word, Treble boosterTreble reducer, Vocal booster

Compilations- dont know what theyre for, turns compilations off or on

Sound check- dunno, turns off or on

Clicker- chooses wether scrolling through list makes a click noise on headphones, speakers (outloud), or both

Date and time- goes into time zones, time in title screen and setting date and time etc.

contacts- for sorting details on your contacts list

language - decideds language of ipod, includes japanese symbols (which is kinda cool)

Legal- legal disclaimer

Reset all settings- undoes all your changes to ipod.

And thats pretty much it.

And comparing the settings menu doesn't make much sense. On the feature list, I too can disable the clicking sound, the backlight, use shuffle/repeat 1/repeat all/shuffle repeat, change the language and use different EQ settings. Oh, almost forgot the FM radio. Does the iPod have a radio?

[Destai]

For the record, I have a Zen Micro 5Gb, white.


That wasnt me chickening out of a response if youd like people to think that but fine,

One thing thats very nice and has alot of quality to it is the colour screen. Its classy. The main menu is customisable so you can have as many features as you want on the front page or as few.

These are a summary of the options leading from my personal main menu.

Music -

Playlists- which opens up into different categories of x0's music (whatever year) , My top rated, Recently added, Recently played, Top 25 most played and on the go which is acessed by holding the center button an any song and that song is added to that playlist.

Ah, I have to admit I can't customize the menu. Big whoopdeedoo.


Artists- Displaying artists name

I have that too.


Albums- " Albums "

That too.


Songs- listing the collection of songs.

Same.


Genres- Lists genres

Same.


Composers- " composers

Difference with Artist?


and audio books.

Never listened to one. Paper book ftw.

I can also choose my recordings, my bookmarks, and the DJ menu (album of the day, most listened to, less listened to, random play all).


Photos- displayed in perfect quality list you total pictures, your slideshow settings which contains all the details on the slide show. (slideshow is activated by clicking on any picture) and theres diffderent folders dividing up all your photos

I prefer watching my pictures on my comp, or if I can't, on my laptop. Otherwise I don't need it, my camera displays pictures fine, why would I watch them on my mp3 player?


Extras-

Clock- which gives the time in large numbers in 12 or 24 hr, has alarm clock, has sleep timer and date and time all of which lead into a list of deifferent categories for setting them and theyre details

I have that too.


contacts- stores up to one thousand contacts. Showing the details of name, occupations, company, telephones, email address, office address and normal address per person. and intructions and smaples for using them.

I don't use it, but it's available to me (not sure about what is displayed, however, I can sync it with Outlook).


Calendar- Showing a full years calendar, a to do list marked on it and alarms to remind of occasions as well as different noises for the alarms.

Month per month calendar for me. Not that I use it anyway.


Notes- just notes to check up on.

I have that too.

I have a microphone, does your iPod have that?


Games- including brick, parachute and solitaire as well as a music quiz which plays a quick sample of one song and you mucst answer what song it was from a selection as quick as you can.

*hugs his handeld consoles* Don't need the iPod/cellphone games. :D


Settings-

About- shows my personal details and the details of my ipod

Main menu- which is for customizing whats on your main menu

Shuffle- for shuffleing either songs or albums,

repeat- for one song or all of the album or choices you have playing

Backlight- for checking how long your back light stays on

Audio books- for the details on your audio books

EQ- I dont know what this is. You can have it off or set to acoutsic, bass booster, bas resucer, classical, dance, deep, electronic, flat, hip hop, jazz, latin, loudness, lounge, piano, pop, R&B, Rock, Small speakers, Spoken word, Treble boosterTreble reducer, Vocal booster

Compilations- dont know what theyre for, turns compilations off or on

Sound check- dunno, turns off or on

Clicker- chooses wether scrolling through list makes a click noise on headphones, speakers (outloud), or both

Date and time- goes into time zones, time in title screen and setting date and time etc.

contacts- for sorting details on your contacts list

language - decideds language of ipod, includes japanese symbols (which is kinda cool)

Legal- legal disclaimer

Reset all settings- undoes all your changes to ipod.

And thats pretty much it.

And comparing the settings menu doesn't make much sense. On the feature list, I too can disable the clicking sound, the backlight, use shuffle/repeat 1/repeat all/shuffle repeat, change the language and use different EQ settings. Oh, almost forgot the FM radio. Does the iPod have a radio?Whats with my game boy can play games too, theres pictures on my computer too. etc. Wow no <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> sherlock, The point is theyre all on one mp3 player that fits in your pocket.

[Endless]

Whats with my game boy can play games too, theres pictures on my computer too. he point is theyre all on one mp3 player.

Yes, you said it: <b>mp3</b> player. To play games, I use a console, and to look at pictures, I use a real screen (or the camera that took the pictures). To read, I use *gasp* paper books. If I cared for organizing contacts and notes and all, I'd use a PDA (which, btw, would smoke the iPod as far as displaying pictures go).

Edit: you can compare that to all the crap that MS Word <i>can</i> do, but that 99% of the users will <i>never</i> use.

Edit2: not to mention that the iPod mini 4/6Gb, which is the main competitor against the Zen Micro, doesn't do pictures/games, and yet still costs more (the ipod mini 4gb costs the same as the zen micro 5gb).

[Destai]

Whats with my game boy can play games too, theres pictures on my computer too. he point is theyre all on one mp3 player.

Yes, you said it: <b>mp3</b> player. To play games, I use a console, and to look at pictures, I use a real screen (or the camera that took the pictures). To read, I use *gasp* paper books. If I cared for organizing contacts and notes and all, I'd use a PDA (which, btw, would smoke the iPod as far as displaying pictures go).Yeah and take not how the subject is MP3 players and simplifying them and other categories into one. The ipods pictures cant exactly be smoked as theyre is really nothing wrong with them at all. I see no flaws in them compared to a pc screen or a top of the range digital camera. Ipods cheaper than the other things you mentioned also.

edit: and yes the ipod does have a downloadable radio for free as far as Im aware. its called pod cast.

[Lindy]

Damn, and I was going to point out how Zen players have everything the iPods have anyway, but Endless beat me to it.

Lets put it this way, once you take several things and combine them down into one single item, it will never be as good as the separate items on their own.

You can play "games" on your iPod, they're crap games, if I want games I play on my GBA.
You can view photos, but you can't take any? What's the point, I'd rather carry around my digital camera so I can actually take photos as well as showing people them. And the iPod would be "smoked" vs a PDA in photo display since compared to an average PDA, the screen is quite pitiful in both size and display quality.

Secondly, an iPod is not cheaper than those things, since I can get a GBA, Creative MP3 player and a 2 Megapixel Digital Camera for around the same price as an iPod, perhaps a touch more. And with those, I can play better quality games than on an iPod, listen to better quality music, and take photos as well as viewing them. And of course, you know, paper books cost a whole FORTUNE to buy.

iPods are flashy, expensive fashion accessories, nothing more.

[Destai]

Damn, and I was going to point out how Zen players have everything the iPods have anyway, but Endless beat me to it.

Lets put it this way, once you take several things and combine them down into one single item, it will never be as good as the separate items on their own.

You can play "games" on your iPod, they're crap games, if I want games I play on my GBA.
You can view photos, but you can't take any? What's the point, I'd rather carry around my digital camera so I can actually take photos as well as showing people them.

Secondly, an iPod is not cheaper than those things, since I can get a GBA, Creative MP3 player and a 2 Megapixel Digital Camera for around the same price as an iPod, perhaps a touch more. And with those, I can play better quality games than on an iPod, listen to better quality music, and take photos as well as viewing them.

iPods are flashy, expensive fashion accessories, nothing more.All you did was divide the many categories. Yes a gameboy can play better games but it cant do any of the other stuff. Yes a camera can take photos but it cant to the other stuff. And an ipod can hold more pictures than the average digital camera.

if it can do half of the things I listed its by no means nothing more than a fsdhion accessory. If you honestly think that you obviously arent willing to cinsider its worth because theyre overhyped. They may be overhyped but theyre still very good and vetter than most mp3 players with more options.

[Endless]

I'm not talking about downloading a radio stream (winamp does that fine). I'm talking listening to the radio wherever I am. You know, FM radio.

[Destai]

I'm not talking about downloading a radio stream (winamp does that fine). I'm talking listening to the radio wherever I am. You know, FM radio.I dont know the details on pod cast but I wa under the impression it was downloading a radio station onto the ipod and carrying it with you. Maybe Ive repeated what you just said. Im not sure. i dont know much about radios.

[Endless]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcasting

Edit: long story short, it requires to connect to the net, and in many cases, to use iTunes.

[Destai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PodcastingWell then I'll admit it. The iPod doesnt have a radio.

[Lindy]

if it can do half of the things I listed its by no means nothing more than a fsdhion accessory. If you honestly think that you obviously arent willing to cinsider its worth because theyre overhyped. They may be overhyped but theyre still very good and vetter than most mp3 players with more options.
It is a fashion accessory because it can't do the one thing that it's intended to do well, you know what that is?

<b>Play music</b>

Simply by posting the Creative site, I linked you to a fair number of MP3 players that are better than the iPod and it's derivatives, do you really want me to post more that are better than it too? Try considering Rio or iRiver players, there's a huge variety in those too.

When it comes down to an iPod, or a player that offers a better sound quality for a cheaper price, I know what I would pick, because I don't need something that is flashy, or has all the extraneous rubbish that iPods carry along. They are not better than most other players, and when you get down the actual internals, they have nothing more than any other kind of MP3 player, often less, which was proved by you listing the features. The things that the Zen players lacked, were things that were not needed in the first place for an MP3 player.

The fact that you have pictures and games on your iPod, well that's lovely, but when you get a portable games console, MP3 player and a digital camera for an equal or lower price than a poor-quality MP3 player with poor-quality games and average picture display, it pretty much proves my point.

[Destai]

if it can do half of the things I listed its by no means nothing more than a fsdhion accessory. If you honestly think that you obviously arent willing to cinsider its worth because theyre overhyped. They may be overhyped but theyre still very good and vetter than most mp3 players with more options.
It is a fashion accessory because it can't do the one thing that it's intended to do well, you know what that is?

<b>Play music</b>

Simply by posting the Creative site, I linked you to a fair number of MP3 players that are better than the iPod and it's derivatives, do you really want me to post more that are better than it too? Try considering Rio or iRiver players, there's a huge variety in those too.

When it comes down to an iPod, or a player that offers a better sound quality for a cheaper price, I know what I would pick, because I don't need something that is flashy, or has all the extraneous rubbish that iPods carry along. They are not better than most other players, and when you get down the actual internals, they have nothing more than any other kind of MP3 player, often less, which was proved by you listing the features. The things that the Zen players lacked, were things that were not needed in the first place for an MP3 player.

The fact that you have pictures and games on your iPod, well that's lovely, but when you get a portable games console, MP3 player and a digital camera for an equal or lower price than a poor-quality MP3 player with poor-quality games and average picture display, it pretty much proves my point.
It plays music just fine Lindy. Its pretty challenging for an MP3 to play music badly and the iPod plays music fine. It holds a large ammount of songs also and the pictures, games and other features are not poor quality at all. Variety and added entertainment arent bad things.

[Lindy]

Ok, lets put this EVEN SIMPLER for you.

iPod Photo : http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72104/wo/Uz5UgIzYESIV3egg3uL1irHoniV/0.0.0.11.1.0.6.7.0.0.1.3.0.3.1.0.1.1.0

$299 for a 20gb, $399 for a 60gb

Creative : http://us.creative.com/shop/shopcategory.asp?category=213&

Zen Touch : $329 for a 40gb, $249 for a 20gb, bearing in mind these are FAR superior to the iPod (note the 24 hour battery life for a start)

Zen NX Xtra : $299 for a 60gb, $249 for a 40gb, $229 for a 30gb

Already, you can see, Zen Touch is better than the iPod, but cheaper in relative terms, the NX Xtra is more on the level of the iPod, but vastly cheaper.

The fact that you can get a 60gb Zen NX Xtra for the same price as a 20gb iPod Photo, what the heck is the point? A GBA will come to about another $50, and a digital camera will run around $75~130, giving you much more than the pitiful games and average quality photos on your iPod.

Again, the whole point, to play music. Photos, games and whatever shouldn't even enter the equation if you want an MP3 player.

(And I did it in terms of dollars because I just couldn't find the UK Apple site, helpful one there guys, really reaching out to your customers)

EDIT :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00077IMCE/qid=1121636773/br=1-13/ref=br_lf_p_13//104-2441751-9723117?v=glance&s=photo&n=1067690

$71 2MP Digital Camera

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007CWJ0/qid=1121636960/sr=1-23/ref=sr_1_23/104-2441751-9723117?v=glance&s=videogames

$48 Gameboy Advance

$299 + $48 + $71 = $418

That's $19 more than a 60gb iPod photo, so what the heck is the point of buying one when, as I have pretty clearly proven, you can get more than that for just a fraction more of the price. Or, heck, you can get either an MP3 player and a good digital Camera or a GBA for less than an iPod, to put it simpler.

[-N-]

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v255/Bibliophiliac/52%20bookcovers/01-Catch22.jpg

[Destai]

Ok, lets put this EVEN SIMPLER for you.

iPod Photo : http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72104/wo/Uz5UgIzYESIV3egg3uL1irHoniV/0.0.0.11.1.0.6.7.0.0.1.3.0.3.1.0.1.1.0

$299 for a 20gb, $399 for a 60gb

Creative : http://us.creative.com/shop/shopcategory.asp?category=213&

Zen Touch : $329 for a 40gb, $249 for a 20gb, bearing in mind these are FAR superior to the iPod (note the 24 hour battery life for a start)

Zen NX Xtra : $299 for a 60gb, $249 for a 40gb, $229 for a 30gb

Already, you can see, Zen Touch is better than the iPod, but cheaper in relative terms, the NX Xtra is more on the level of the iPod, but vastly cheaper.

The fact that you can get a 60gb Zen NX Xtra for the same price as a 20gb iPod Photo, what the heck is the point? A GBA will come to about another $50, and a digital camera will run around $75~130, giving you much more than the pitiful games and average quality photos on your iPod.

Again, the whole point, to play music. Photos, games and whatever shouldn't even enter the equation if you want an MP3 player.

(And I did it in terms of dollars because I just couldn't find the UK Apple site, helpful one there guys, really reaching out to your customers)Lindy it doesnt need to be an iPod photo to have the photos on it. You cant take photots with the average one but you can download pictures onto it with the colour screen. If all you want is the music then dont buy the ipod. Theres nothing clear about it. None of them are vastly superior to the ipod at all. The ipod can do more than just about (if not) all of them even if music quality is weaker on some of them and not by much at all. With al the added features the price does balance up. If all you wants the music then logically you should get the player that specialises in music. I havent denied that once in this thread. But iPods music once again isnt bad by any means.
Plus having them all the features in one small item is worth more than having them sepertaely. Convienience sells.

[Rye]

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v255/Bibliophiliac/52%20bookcovers/01-Catch22.jpg

Neel wins. I agree, not with the book as I didn't read it yet, but on reading. Reading on a trip is fun. :)

I think I need to make an iPod/Creative/other mp3 players holding hands banner soon. xD

[Lindy]

Time for you to take into account the edit I added there boyo~

Which, is actually quite a useful one in terms of the topic, since it weighs up prices and pretty much proves my point.


If all you want is the music then dont buy the ipod.
Hey, you know, THAT WAS WHAT THE TOPIC WAS ALL ABOUT, there was no mention of "I want an MP3 player that can also view photos and play games", it was "I want an MP3 player", you've just proven my point there that in this case, an iPod isn't what is needed.

Cheers.

[Destai]

Time for you to take into account the edit I added there boyo~

Which, is actually quite a useful one in terms of the topic, since it weighs up prices and pretty much proves my point.I did actually. Last line pretty much.

[Lindy]

Then you're an idiot.

If you fail to see that, for a slightly higher price, you can get MORE than the iPod, then you really are just lacking something in your mind.

You'd happily spend your money on something, knowing that you could get more for your money, just because it's combined into one product?

There is seriously no hope for you.

[Destai]

Then you're an idiot.

If you fail to see that, for a slightly higher price, you can get MORE than the iPod, then you really are just lacking something in your mind.

You'd happily spend your money on something, knowing that you could get more for your money, just because it's combined into one product?

There is seriously no hope for you.Lindy you're an absaloute sadcase. Seriously lifes arent that hard to get you hands on. My money was well spent.

[Lindy]

So it doesn't matter that all the extra features are crap, just that's COMBINED?

Wow, you have to fall back on the 'get a life' "insult", what I have no life because I like to look up and see how I'm going to spend my money rather than throwing it away? Well, then I suppose since I like to save money and make better use of it, I have no life. You know, since I have to work for it and all, I'd rather not waste it since it's akin to just wasting the time I spent earning it.

[Destai]

And once again you've ignored the points Ive made throughout this thread constantly. None of the features are remotely crap. If you go searching you'll find an item that can beat tha feature but all of the features are combined and all work very well. Its not complicated. You'll get it one day, Im sure.

[Lindy]

Poor Quality Games
Average Quality Photos

Yeah, great features, really, I'm sure that it will dawn on me one day how great they are.

Every other feature you posted, Zen players have, which you so subtly missed.

[Destai]

Poor Quality Games
Average Quality Photos

Yeah, great features, really, I'm sure that it will dawn on me one day how great they are.

Every other feature you posted, Zen players have, which you so subtly missed.None of them are poor quality and the photots are high quality. The games are also very addictive. Enjoyment beats graphics, Bgm, storyline. Its just addictive gameplay.

[Yamaneko]

Ok, we get it.

Lindy likes one product. Destai likes another. If your brand loyalties were any more apparent you'd be spokesman for Creative and Apple respectively. Cut the childish remarks (I'm looking at you Lindy), state your points (which you have), and move on. No one wants to see you two make your lame cases for product superiority (take it to PMs).

Now let us see if we can pull this thread out of its nosedive.

[Lindy]

The screen on an iPod is 2-inches in size, and has 65,536 colours.

65,536 colours is average quality, when computers and laptops use 32-bit colour (1.3 million colours, I believe) and computer and laptop screens are around 14-inches. Most PDA's use 16-bit (65,536) colour and have usually 6x8 screens.

They're average quality photos, on computers they're very high quality, on PDAs they're good quality, on iPods they're average, stop trying to fool yourself.

EDIT : Anyway, my useful point was made a few posts back, where I compared prices, in that lies my main point and my main suggestions.

[Rye]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/ryeryechu/IPODZEN.gif

:) Oh the love.

And bad graphic editting. I'll fix it later. xD

[Lindy]

Make it a Touch or NX, Micro is only 5gb, it's more akin to the iPod Mini.

[Chzn8r]

That debate sure was helpful...

I think I'll just stick with my CD player and go with the GBA for now...