GTA San Andreas now rated AO

[Irvine78]

Article lifted from GameSpot's official website (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/20/news_6129500.html)

This is bad news for the entire industry. I am disgusted at Rockstar Games, ESRB, Hilary Clinton, and pretty much everybody involved. A dark day for gaming.

[Shoeberto]

I read about this earlier today. It really gets to me, but it's only getting the AO rating until Rockstar can redistribute the game with the Hot Coffee material removed.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

It was deserved.
It's about time a game got the AO rating anyway.
Hillary Clinton is so dumb jeez c'mon lady.
Who cares?

[Black Mage FF1]

Who cares? At least now they cant be held back. Expect better stuff from the newer GTA's.

[Shoeberto]

It doesn't bug me so much that it got an AO rating, but more how it got it. The material in question can't even show up without a third party patch. If they wanted to get it on legitimate grounds, like the violence, language, etc., it'd be more acceptable, but it's not like this actually plays into the main course of the game. It wasn't even complete.

[Shlup]

What Kishi said. Though giving it an AO for a mod is... dumb, but I think it should have an AO anyway. 'Cause you know what they say, "One AO leads to another."

[Yamaneko]

It's not a mod, it was built into the game by Rockstar. You can unlock the mini game on the PS2 version as well.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Serious. I'd have disagreed with it if it were just about a mod.

[edczxcvbnm]

It should have been AO anyways but I agree with Hsu.

I would also like to point out that now game developers will have even more crap to deal with. Then there is also the possibility of the government getting involved with videogame ratings.

Also there should be only and M or an AO. This isn't the smurfing movie theaters. It is retail and these games shouldn't be in the hands of someone underaged anyways. The ESRB sucks anyways. When I did work at gamestop I pretty much told parents to go home and do their research on a game because the ratings system is complete crap and then would point out things like Tony Hawk gets Teen because there were a few swear words in the music they choose for back ground music while Zelda has you fighting and killing goblins and other creatures.

I stand by the rating system sucks and that there is no real basis for any of it. smurf Hilary, the ESRB and parent groups who try to get parents to be less of a parent than they already are. Why would they even care about this unless they said it was okay to own before?

THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS A STEAMING PILE OF DOG /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif!

EDIT: This was not built into the game. To get it in the PS2 version you have to mod the game with AR or Gameshark. You still use a third party device. For the PC you use a mod.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I findthe fact that they put it into the game without bothering to mention quite irritating. I'm not too fond of Rockstar games to begin with, and this does little to improve my opinion.

Although I must say that Rockstar's doing stupid stuff like this pulls the attention off the rest of the gaming companies, thus allowing us to have some respite from general whining about video games by people who've never played a game in their life.

[Yamaneko]

The code exists within the game. AR and Gameshark just unlock the code.

[edczxcvbnm]

I findthe fact that they put it into the game without bothering to mention quite irritating. I'm not too fond of Rockstar games to begin with, and this does little to improve my opinion.

They were going to put it into the game but took it out. You have to crack the game to do this. Like most scrapped things in game, it just gets left on the disc.

EDIT To Yams: It is on the disc but you have to use a 3rd party means to use it even. Even then it is really long and can screw up your save files because it is imcomplete due to it being scrapped. From what I have read you have to put in a joker code to kill yourself just to get out of it once the game has ended.

I don't think games should be rated by 3rd party interferance.

[Big D]

The AO for Adults Only rating means that, according to the ESRB's official definition, the current version of the game now "should only be played by persons 18 years and older"... Oh my... that sounds... exactly like the "Restricted 18" rating this game has already got in my country.

Oh teh noes. A game in which your character can be rewarded for mass murder, brutal robbery and slaying of innocents, and pimping/murdering prostitutes gets a restriction placed on it? How unthinkable.

Even though the new material's only accessible via third-party interference, it's gotta be examined when assessing the game. If not, lame game companies who want to take advantage of the "OMG CONTROVERSY = FREE PUBLICITY" campaign will just start loading their games with stupid crap that you can't access through conventional means, then 'subtly' advertising the fact.

I don't have a problem with the current game classification systems. In my country, it's goverened by the Films, Videos and Publications Act, which applies to basically any other media as well. Products get a warning label as appropriate, and a legally-binding restriction (eg. 16, 18 or not legally available at all) where appropriate. It works fine.
The only problem is parents who are utterly stupid and buy their children whatever software they want, thinking that "games" are all about fun, without bothering to read the censor's warning or even read the back of the box. "Omg! I bought my 9-year old son Puppy Molester 3 and Sandbox Tentacle Tyrant, and it turns out they've got violence and sexual perversion in them! Oh, the horror! I'd better sue somebody, since that's what stupid people are supposed to do in times like these."

A little responsibility goes a long way.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Hey, Sandbox Tentacle Tyrant is a classic.

[edczxcvbnm]

Even as a responsible retailer I still ended up selling GTA: Vice City to parents after explaining about drugs, murder and prostitution and they still bought it for their 9 year old kid who was standing right there. I will not sell it to the kid but if the parent thinks that it is okay for their kid then who am I to say no? People are just /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gifty parent in general an no amount of anything will change that.

[Big D]

Indeed, that's the point I was making. Shops can't force parents to obey common sense; they've got to do it themselves - but a strong censor's restriction, like the kind used on pornography, is probably a good way to help.

It's odd - I doubt any parents would by an R18 magazine or movie for their kids, but they'll happily buy a video game with the same rating - and similar content.

[DMKA]

Well, congratulations to GTA: SA for being the first game with an AO rating!

But really, it's not like it's for kids anyway...I think an AO rating is befitting, though I agree the reasoning behind it is...stupid.

But really, what difference does it make if it's rated "M" or "AO"? Like, one year older? But then I guess the whole "omg we're Walmart so we're too good to sell such garbage" thing is somewhat of a big deal...especially when you live in an area like this where there's no where to shop but Walmart (seriously). o__O

Hilary dissapoints me. :(

[Irvine78]

Glad this got such a talk going. I would agree that San Andreas was already asking for an AO rating, with or without the minigame. I also think that the biggest loser here is not the consumer, or Hilary Clinton (She's just the biggest), but the biggest loser is the developers who will have Hilary Clinton's putrid hot breath down their necks as they work developing games for the new wave of consoles.

I sure as hell wouldn't recommend these games to kids. I got a little brother who was 12 when I got the game and I didn't even let him watch me play it until recently. Frankly, it's just over the top on all levels. I hope that now after they have seen just how far they can push their luck, Rockstar will focus more on actual gameplay elements (And making the radio more worthwhile) in the next game instead of seeing how many times they could add /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif into every cutscene.

[Mercen-X]

Echo (echo), Echo! (echo).

Rating a game for content only accessible via third party codebreaking is purely ridiculous. So many games carry the M rating (games which parents only too gladly continue to buy their underage children), now with an AO rating, suddenly store-owners won't even carry them and parents might suddenly say "no" if they see them. I swear, so many parents in the world are just so . . . stupid.

[Winter Nights]

Actually, I disagree with the rating. 'M' is and always has been the video game 'R' rating. To state that sex that shows no genitial makes it deserve an 'AO' rating dubs it porn. 'R' rated movies have shown the same, sometimes more. Doesn't that mean that they are rating it harsher than movies?

Once again, people prove that their stupidity by treating a device used mostly by adults like a child's toy. :rolleyes2

[Dreddz]

Who cares to be honest

[Winter Nights]

While I don't care to play San Andreas, I do care about this. The rating system has been constantly evolving to show parents and the media that games are to be treated in the same sect as movies and books. That video games are more than children's playthings. Then, the ESRB goes and rates a game harsher than any other media. This is a step backwards for the game industry. And if they can be pressured to make such a statement against a little sexual content.. How long do you think it will take for them to be pressured into rating games harsher for violence, as well?

[omnitarian]

Even though the new material's only accessible via third-party interference, it's gotta be examined when assessing the game. If not, lame game companies who want to take advantage of the "OMG CONTROVERSY = FREE PUBLICITY" campaign will just start loading their games with stupid crap that you can't access through conventional means, then 'subtly' advertising the fact.

I wholeheartedly agree, and apparently, so does the ESRB:


"Going forward, the ESRB will now require all game publishers to submit any pertinent content shipped in final product even if is not intended to ever be accessed during game play, or remove it from the final disc."

Source. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/20/news_6129500.html) I honestly think it's a worthwhile measure. It's not like these unused bits of data just sneak in from magic pixie land. Smuggling stuff past the ESRB by placing whatever you want in the game's unused portions is a rather idiotic loophole.

[Rye]

Um, how come it took so long for them to find out? Why punish GTA:SA's makers if they were too stupid to find it during the first few months it came out?

[Erdrick Holmes]

People just look for excuses to attack game developers for crap like this. Know why? Because they make the most money of all of the entertainment industry, and most of these people just want some of their billions of dollars. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this game, I'm defending the game industry in general.

[Necronopticous]

Um, how come it took so long for them to find out? Why punish GTA:SA's makers if they were too stupid to find it during the first few months it came out?Because it was hidden on the disc. It is not even accessable by normal means in the game, you must go externally and hack into areas of the disc that you can't even possibly get to any other way. Gameshark and devices like this are the only way to access Hot Coffee.

[Rye]

Um, how come it took so long for them to find out? Why punish GTA:SA's makers if they were too stupid to find it during the first few months it came out?Because it was hidden on the disc. It is not even accessable by normal means in the game, you must go externally and hack into areas of the disc that you can't even possibly get to any other way. Gameshark and devices like this are the only way to access Hot Coffee.

Oooh. If you can only get it by Gameshark, I don't see the big deal. To prevent people from freaking out, they should make a special rating version that has those minigames and the normal M rated version without the minigame.

[disapointedchild]

I already got the game, got it when it first came out, it doesnt really affect me at this time, but still.

Hilary clinton must get really bored.

Hilary: Hm, well all the important issues are covered I think Ill pick on games.
Me: Damn you hilary, you may have screwed up other things for me.

[Rye]

I already got the game, got it when it first came out, it doesnt really affect me at this time, but still.

Hilary clinton must get really bored.

Hilary: Hm, well all the important issues are covered I think Ill pick on games.
Me: Damn you hilary, you may have screwed up other things for me.

I would make a joke about her and being bored, but it's not quite appropriate.

[CloudSquallandZidane]

The is a video of this at SpikedHumor.com, i'd provide a direct link, BUT i think i might get banned for real. So just know that its there. And after seeing it, well they didnt have a choice, but to rate this game Ao.

[edczxcvbnm]

I would make a joke about her and being bored, but it's not quite appropriate.

I'll say it for you. She is bored so she is masturbating...not really a joke.

I think the new measure by the ESRB is retarded. It adds even more cost to the already insane cost of development. It is like if a movie was made and there was some sex scene made but they cut it out to get a lower rating. The scene was made and it could be stolen and put out on the net. It should get the X rating because of that. It makes no fucking sense and is a waste of time and money.

[Rye]

I would make a joke about her and being bored, but it's not quite appropriate.

I'll say it for you. She is bored so she is masturbating...not really a joke.

I think the new measure by the ESRB is retarded. It adds even more cost to the already insane cost of development. It is like if a movie was made and there was some sex scene made but they cut it out to get a lower rating. The scene was made and it could be stolen and put out on the net. It should get the X rating because of that. It makes no smurfing sense and is a waste of time and money.

That wasn't it. xD

[edczxcvbnm]

I took an awesome shot it the dark :D

[Yamaneko]

Mod or modification is a term generally applied to computer games, especially first-person shooters and real-time strategy games. Mods are made by the general public, and can be entirely new games upon themselves. They can include new items, weapons, characters, enemies, models, modes, textures, levels, and story lines. They also usually take place in unique locations. They can be single-player or multiplayer.
Just to clarify. A game modification entails an edition to the original code by a third-party. The mini game was produced by Rockstar Games. All models, items, and characters are property of Rockstar Games. The PC and PS2 versions of the game require you to unlock existing code within the game and not actually modify any of the code itself. The PS2 version of the game runs the mini game off the DVD and not off RAM, like it would have to if it was a third-party modification.

[edczxcvbnm]

Its a modification because you add code to the game to access an inaccessible part of the game. By adding code to access something you have modified it. Any gameshark or AR code modifies the game. The mini game code is there but being able to access it requires code to unlock that section there for it is a mod.

[Yamaneko]

The mini game itself is not a modification. That's what I'm trying to get at here. It doesn't matter if you need a crack, a mod, a patch (or whatever you want to call it) to unlock the mini game, Rockstar and Rockstar alone produced the mini game and own it.

[Fireblade13]

An AO dang how many have achieved that? I mean hey parents don't look at the rating usually I mean I know someone who thought Halo was a game about angels.

[Mercen-X]

'M' is and always has been the video game 'R' rating. To state that sexual material that shows no genital makes it deserve an 'AO' rating, dubs it porn. 'R' rated movies have shown the same, sometimes more. Doesn't that mean that they are rating this game harsher than movies?

Once again, people prove their stupidity by treating a device used mostly by adults like a child's toy.
Ab-so-friggin-lutely. If they're gonna rate GTA:SA "AO" because of a superficial sex scene (let alone one that can only be accessed via third-party means), they might as well start rating movies such as Body of Evidence and Desperado and Never Talk to Strangers with a big fat "X"!
The only reason they're being harder on games is because they still are refusing to acknowledge that not all games are intended for children to begin with. 17-yr-olds see much more on TV and in the movies than any game could manage to duplicate. Just because some parents are stupid enough to ignore the "M" rating's warning that it's only suitable for 17+ doesn't mean that the game should pay the price when they suddenly find it's unsuitable for their kids.

[nik0tine]

I'm sick of this "rating" system anyway. I don't like them on movies, TV, OR games. This doesn't do anything but piss me off even more.

[Rye]

God, this was on the news. Sad. :/

[kikimm]

Jesus Christ. Hilary Clinton just needs to get laid. :rolleyes2


:D

[nik0tine]

She's the reason people can say "stupid liberals" and get away with it! :mad2:

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Well, she's one of the main reasons.

[MecaKane]

Also there should be only and M or an AO. This isn't the smurfing movie theaters.

There shouldn't be a seperate R and NC-17, either. Who wants to go see a movie with intercourse with their parents anyway?

And it's the first console game to be rated AO. Lots of PC games, since no one can tell them they can't make them.

[Hawkeye]

People need to get a grip. Its a video game for crying out loud. I'm sure half the people here havent seen anything more disturbing in their lifetimes, and people who put the restrictions on GTA:SA have a real anal problem. If children get the game, thats their parents responsibility

[JaytodaP]

This is dumb. Hilary Clinton can waste our tax money to investigate this? What an Idiot. Im tired of hearing parents say: "This game corrupts my children!!!!!" hmmmmm...... Then don't buy (http://consumeralertsystem.com/cas/zx-hclick.php?hid=334) it. Is it that hard? Its rated M for a reason. SO dont complain that it corrupted your kid.

News Next week: Bye Bye God of War. Jeez. If you thought GTA was bad in content, think again. Theres topless girls all over the place.

My dad had to buy it for me cuz im 13. But he realizes that I'm responsible enough to NOT repeat what I see. My dad doesnt care whats in video games becaus e I'm not screwed up like other kids are.

Me playing SA

*Shoots old guy in face*
Dad: " Did you just shoot him and take his money and car?"
Me: " Yeah, I crossed on a green light and he ran me over."
Dad: " COOOOOOL!!!!!!!! Can I play? "
This game is so hilarious!

[Kakashi509]

people are still gonna buy it for there kids still I mean how the the hell can san andreas get rated AO when playboy mansion is only rated M

[CloudSquallandZidane]

She's the reason people can say "stupid liberals" and get away with it! :mad2:


HEY! Lets not forget about when Texas republicans were passing legislation to keep Cheerleaders for doing sexually suggestive dancing.

Stupid political circus i say!

[The Time Assassin]

My copy of GTA is still M so bah.

[Meat Puppet]

Yeah, my country rock because they already had it as R18.
I've always seen AO as the lesser of R18 and AO anyway.

[lordblazer]

It was deserved.
It's about time a game got the AO rating anyway.
Hillary Clinton is so dumb jeez c'mon lady.
Who cares?

wow I didn't know teens have never seen blood gore sex and violence before.

plus hilary clinton is a B-I-T-C-H which is why bill cheated on her twice.

[JaytodaP]

I cant stand it when people repeat things they see and then someone gets sued. Parents dont look at ratings before they buy (http://consumeralertsystem.com/cas/zx-hclick.php?hid=334) the game. Idiots..... My bro sold the whole PS2 GTA trilogy to a 14 year-old.( Underage) They had a note that looked to my bro that it was real. The next day, the parents came in to return the games. They bitched at my bro for the longest time. Until it came to this:

Bro: Okay, youve been yelling at me for like 15 minutes... STOP. Shut up. and after I'm gonna have to ask you to leave because youve been swearing at me for a long time. The note looked real. Obviously, you never tought your kids right from wrong. So leave.

See, just because you dont teach your kids right from wrong, doesnt mean you can bitch at and sue Rockstar games. It reminds me of Mothers Against Maddox.

Im just wondering, is the cheat still available?(Not that Im gonna use it) Or did they ban that too?

[edczxcvbnm]

Also there should be only and M or an AO. This isn't the smurfing movie theaters.

There shouldn't be a seperate R and NC-17, either. Who wants to go see a movie with intercourse with their parents anyway?

And it's the first console game to be rated AO. Lots of PC games, since no one can tell them they can't make them.

I am aware that it is the first console game and I agree that there shouldn't be an R or NC-17 rating. It should just be one. Most porn is unrated anyways as well as most of those hentai games. They know the rating they are going to get and what stores will carry it in the first place so they don't even bother to waste their time or the MPAA/ESRB's time.

[rubicant]

So what? Who gives a bibble? Gabba-Gabba-Hey!

I told my dad about this being in the game and he just laughed. If I want the game, all I gotta do is ask my dad to buy it for me. He trusts me because I'm not a psychopathic freak. Besides, I play Final Fantasy, a game thatis very difficult to play if you are a pinhead the plays GTA and thinks its for real, or you want to be just like the murdurous psychopaths in the game.

Plus, the ESRB rates the CONTENT of the game, so if the game contains it, its is to be rated.

[Shoden]

the point is?

here it's rated 18

why does America use such a ridiculous rating system?

it gets that just for a minigame that can only be accessed by a massive Action Replay code. hopefully cheatcode websites wont put this in

[Hawkeye]

Lol Mothers against Maddox... I remember that. That was rediculous and a hoot

[MarikTheYuke]

I support the decision. Sorry. I'm against GTA. It's just to violent for no reason. I could understand a "shoot the bad guys" plot, but a "kill anything that moves" plot just repells me from it.

[JaytodaP]

Thats what makes it fun! I bought this game to shoot people in the face. It never gets old! Its hilarious robbing Cluckin' Bell or Burger Shot. It wouldnt be any fun if all you did were missions. Plus, when Im feeling blue, I always play GTA. It cheers me up by making me laugh histerically.

[rubicant]

Thats what makes it fun! I bought this game to shoot people in the face. It never gets old! Its hilarious robbing Cluckin' Bell or Burger Shot. It wouldnt be any fun if all you did were missions. Plus, when Im feeling blue, I always play GTA. It cheers me up by making me laugh histerically.

Can we say "psychopath"?

Just kidding, when I play Vice City, I like going on a murdurous rampage. Very lol.

[LunaticPandora37]

i don't see what's so bad about GTA getting an AO rating...you can still buy it right?? and i still works when you put in your PS2/X-box right? so..who cares...


ORO?!

[Old Manus]

the point is?

here it's rated 18

why does America use such a ridiculous rating system?


Truest thing ever.

[Mercen-X]

i don't see what's so bad about GTA getting an AO rating...you can still buy it right??
It'll be harder to find because most stores don't carry AO games. You'd have find it in rare computer stores or suchforth.

[crashNUMBERS]

Thats stupid!! Its not like your parents actually pay attention to does things. Do they??

[MecaKane]

Good parents do.

[crashNUMBERS]

Well some parents dont understand. You know some like mine are foreign. No offense...

[Black Mage]

Even being foreign, it's not hard to understand "E" is for Everyone, "M" for Mature 17+, and so on.

Plenty of parents just don't care, and let video games/television babysit their kids.

Good parents make an effort to know what they're buying their kids.

[MecaKane]

Well some parents dont understand. You know some like mine are foreign. No offense...
It's their job to understand and not buy things they know nothing about for their kids.

[lordblazer]

The whole point of the matter is.WTF is the point for this rating system. a 16 year old now can't buy GTA:SA because some parents bitched and complained.Is a 15-17 year old really that dumb as to not know the difference between reality and fantasy.Thats the big question.Good parent this bad parent that.Just shutup about it stop bsing over that.If a parent buys SA for ther ekid ok then.I can see a parent having to buy it for there adolesent kid they trust,but a 9 year old lol it is taking it overboard.But WHen I was 8 I was playing FF7.(ADult situations,language,and animated violence.), but was I going around carrying a big sword saying I was in AVALANCHE.no I wasn't lol.

Anyway the fact of the matter isnt good parents or bad parents because there i sno such thing.,
ITs a parent who cares or a parent who doesn't care.REsponsible or irresponsible.Thats what defines a parent.Irresponsible parents tend to band together in groups and start a rating system or get a book banned or some silly restriction on teens.Its something and thye dont blame themselves they blame society.

The no child left behind thing is crap kids are getting held back because they lack test taking skills.If parents just got there kids into the habit of studying the no child left behind thing wouldnt be here.

[Rengori]

Quit putting the blame on the ESRB (blame Hilary Clinton all you want), it's Rockstar's fault and they have every right to be sued. It was their responsibilty to tell the ESRB about the Minigame they sneaked on there.

[lordblazer]

Dude listen.................Video Games get rated tougher than movies and TV shows.A sitcom that uses sexual induendo gets rated TV-14.Dude so a 14 year old can now be exposed to sex and yet when it comes to a game in which it refers to sexual induendo it gets slaped with a ridiculously high rating.All the really good games like Doom 3.IS real tough to get a hold of and its still freaking 40 bucks.

[Moose Knight]

Who cares? The game sucks anyway.

[lordblazer]

lol my point exactly moose.

[MecaKane]

Dude listen.................Video Games get rated tougher than movies and TV shows.A sitcom that uses sexual induendo gets rated TV-14.Dude so a 14 year old can now be exposed to sex and yet when it comes to a game in which it refers to sexual induendo it gets slaped with a ridiculously high rating.
Like FFX-2? And Xenosaga Episode 2 with Albedo talking about "hovering his hand over momo's head"? And .hack//series with that one slutty cyber chick? And Suikoden with Jeane?
Games also get rated much much lighter on the voilence side.

[crashNUMBERS]

Well some parents dont understand. You know some like mine are foreign. No offense...
It's their job to understand and not buy things they know nothing about for their kids.
True... :shifty:

[JaytodaP]

In USA, there is no censorship. So having it banned from GameStop, EB Games, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and having it not for rent in BlockBuster, is censorship. Therefor, dumbass Hilary Clinton breaks the law on censorship. Sue Hilary Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!

[MecaKane]

In USA, there is no censorship. So having it banned from GameStop, EB Games, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and having it not for rent in BlockBuster, is censorship. Therefor, dumbass Hilary Clinton breaks the law on censorship. Sue Hilary Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!

...

I think you need to go like learn the law, or common sense, or something.

[Rengori]

In USA, there is no censorship. So having it banned from GameStop, EB Games, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and having it not for rent in BlockBuster, is censorship. Therefor, dumbass Hilary Clinton breaks the law on censorship. Sue Hilary Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!

...

I think you need to go like learn the law, or common sense, or something.

[Old Manus]

In USA, there is no censorship. So having it banned from GameStop, EB Games, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and having it not for rent in BlockBuster, is censorship. Therefor, dumbass Hilary Clinton breaks the law on censorship. Sue Hilary Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!

...

I think you need to go like learn the law, or common sense, or something.

[edczxcvbnm]

While it censorship it isn't against the law at all since it is not governement related that the companies not sell the game. Correct me if I mis-worded that.

[Raistlin]

While it censorship it isn't against the law at all since it is not governement related that the companies not sell the game. Correct me if I mis-worded that.
ed is right, amazingly enough. Censorship is only really really wrong if the government does it. If companies choose not to sell a particular product, then that's their choice to make.

[Madame Adequate]

Quit putting the blame on the ESRB (blame Hilary Clinton all you want), it's Rockstar's fault and they have every right to be sued. It was their responsibilty to tell the ESRB about the Minigame they sneaked on there.

Argument is fail.

I don't really think it unreasonable to claim GTA:SA is an AO game. I've played it plenty, and it's coarse and violent when you're listening to the radio.

I do think it is unreasonable to condemn the game because of hard-to-access content which isn't actually part of the game itself, and which requires concious effort on the part of the gamer to access. I mean, to open up the console versions you need entirely seperate hardware, whilst the PC version requires you to go and download the mod, as well as having to subject the game to some difficult conditions and risk losing your save file. It's not something you just come across accidentally. It's almost akin to calling for a book's sales to be restricted because of a yaoi fanfic someone wrote about it. Or like trying to take down Bethesda because of Morrowind's Better Bodies mod.


I support the decision. Sorry. I'm against GTA. It's just to violent for no reason. I could understand a "shoot the bad guys" plot, but a "kill anything that moves" plot just repells me from it.

So you are quite happy to disregard all of the issues involved in a decision like this, and all the worries and objections, and the potential ramifications for the industry as a whole, simply because you don't like the particular game it happened to? Bravo.

--

Private companies can choose to stock whatever they like. I can think it's retarded of them, but I can't take any action about it.

[Raistlin]

I don't understand the "it's too violent for me so no one should be allowed to play it" philosophy. It doesn't matter if you like the game or not - the company had the right to make and distribute the game.

Also, it's important to note that ESRB is a private organization that companies voluntarily submit to. Rockstar is under no legal obligation to do a damn thing, unless they have some sort of contract with ESRB(which I doubt).

EDIT: Also, for ESRB ratings, they only view very short clips of the game, to give the raters a "general idea" of the game. Such a minute part of the game that would take such effort and third-party programs to "unlock" wouldn't have been given any thought - and shouldn't.

[Big D]

Movies: passive experience. You watch what is happening.

Games: Active. You take control of actions, and make the characters perform the activities you choose.

Big difference, which would explain differences in classification. Watching a documentary about gangland violence would be upsetting to a young person, but it'd be quite different to playing a game where those same crimes are presented as consequence-free fun.

[MecaKane]

That would make sense, if it was rated AO for the violence, where you can explode everything but children, and not the sex that enforces the good messages of "Failure to please a woman is a crime" or "Nice guys finish last."

[Kakashi509]

whatever I still have the M version which means that version is still M...

[MecaKane]

It's not going to magically change the letter on the front of the game.
You could have a promo one with NR on it, but if no changes were made it'd be rated M after the original release, and now rated AO. You own an Adults Only game. Gasp.

[Big D]

That would make sense, if it was rated AO for the violence, where you can explode everything but children, and not the sex that enforces the good messages of "Failure to please a woman is a crime" or "Nice guys finish last."Clearly, the rating is a result of all of those elements, not just one or the other. It had a pretty stiff rating already; the 'new' minigame just pushed it over the boundary into the strongest category.

[Lionx]

The only thing i have to say is, ratings should be defined by a wide group of people in ESRB playing it. NOT by the government who doesnt even play them.

[Big D]

In my country, ratings are set by a government branch which has a significant staff who review films, DVDs, magazines, books and video games, where appropriate. They actually review what's in there, though - not just a superficial inquiry.
To prevent abuse of power, there's a strictly-defined set of criteria that govern the classification of publications, and if the censors go outside these criteria then the classification can be challenged in the courts.

[Madame Adequate]

Big difference, which would explain differences in classification. Watching a documentary about gangland violence would be upsetting to a young person, but it'd be quite different to playing a game where those same crimes are presented as consequence-free fun.

Consequence-free? You call being shot to pieces right at the end of the biggest heist in San Andreas history isn't a consequence?

[Big D]

Being able to roam the streets at will, slaughtering and robbing men and women and getting away with it - that's what I meant. Also, games such as these place absolutely no value on the lives of the characters who're murdered. It's different in a military sim, where your opponents are enemies in war. Even then, many games manage to give some sense of meaning to the lives of the enemy - the MGS series, for example. However, 'crime games' let you destroy lives, families and careers in the most grossly unjust way, without ever having any regard for what truly happens as a result. It's just a case of "I killed some guy and took his wallet", not "I killed a newlywed husband who was in his final year at medical school, and basically ruined the life of everyone who was close to him, including the people who saw him beaten to death in the street".

It's not just the severity of the violence, but also the type and intention of the violence which makes a difference.

[Sephex]

Well, I didn't see it posted in here. If so, I am sorry. But I thought what Maddox said about this issue was awesome.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell

[Mercen-X]

I wonder how the ESRB managed to miss the fact that you can kill people with a sexual object?

It's just a case of "I killed some guy and took his wallet", not "I killed a newlywed husband who was in his final year at medical school, and basically ruined the life of everyone who was close to him, including the people who saw him beaten to death in the street."
Well, that is the point. GTA has always been a simulator of what it's supposedly like being a criminal. Fast cars, fast women, adrenaline rush, living a consequence-free life. Criminals may worry about dying from time to time, but that doesn't stop them from being criminals. They don't turn themselves in. They don't ask for forgiveness.
GTA:SA presented a criminal who cared about his moms and his family. He just handled things the wrong way, his brother's way, the way they did growing up in a neighborhood filled with gang warfare and drugs. The effect this lifestyle had on his personality is revealed when he occasionally blurts out, "Call the army, I'm a m***f!!!**n' maniac!"

You know, I retract my earlier statements. As of this time, this era, the games are getting a little too adult to be rated 'M'. One day, 'AO' will be reserved for Maniac games: games in which you torture your enemies by slowly gutting them. Games where "consequence-free killing" includes running down small children with your car after a hard day at work. If we reserve the AO rating for games that are only the most outrageous or simply repugnant, we'll end up with games like that. Because although today there is question as to why any sane person would want to play games of that context, one day, that question may no longer be.

[Jessweeee♪]

My parents bought it for me last christmas. I'm fourteen.
They trust my little brother (10yrs) and I to know better than that game. But parents can never be too sure...I didn't think they'd get it for me, let alone let my little brother play it. Another reason kids shouldn't play this game is because it can make some numb. They could see some guy die and be like, "meh."

And there's another game, Threads of Fate, it got an E rating. I don't see how zelda could get a teen rating and threads of fate an E. I'd hardly call "I'M GONNA GET YOU, YOU (expletive) B******" They actually put (expletive), i'd hardly call that E rated dialogue. And there's the violence.

[Xalibar]

GTASA is going to back on shelves though isn't it?

[Hawkeye]

If you guys havent seen click here for maddoxs opinion (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell)

[Madame Adequate]

Being able to roam the streets at will, slaughtering and robbing men and women and getting away with it - that's what I meant. Also, games such as these place absolutely no value on the lives of the characters who're murdered. It's different in a military sim, where your opponents are enemies in war. Even then, many games manage to give some sense of meaning to the lives of the enemy - the MGS series, for example. However, 'crime games' let you destroy lives, families and careers in the most grossly unjust way, without ever having any regard for what truly happens as a result. It's just a case of "I killed some guy and took his wallet", not "I killed a newlywed husband who was in his final year at medical school, and basically ruined the life of everyone who was close to him, including the people who saw him beaten to death in the street".

It's not just the severity of the violence, but also the type and intention of the violence which makes a difference.

Actually, I was being a bit sarcastic. Of course a game's worst consequence will be that you lose a life or maybe even - horrors - have to start again. The point is, the game isn't about dealing with consequences, it's about having fun. If anyone over the age of about 13 or 14 plays things like this and is actually influenced by them, then I would suggest they have some sort of psychiatric condition, or have not been properly raised.

[Big D]

That's what I mean. I feel that's exactly what justifies having a ratings and restriction system on software of this type.

[Xalibar]

I emailed rockstar and they said that its not official yet but there are plans to re-release it.

Anyway, when you read the warning label M what do you guys expect from it?

Also has anyone actually seen the coffee mod, did it actually show them having sex and show nudity?

[JaytodaP]

I hope Hilary Clinton doesnt see God of War. lol

[nik0tine]

However, 'crime games' let you destroy lives, families and careers in the most grossly unjust way, without ever having any regard for what truly happens as a result. But nothing happens as a result because it's a game


I hope Hilary Clinton doesnt see God of War. lol I hope Hilary Clinton gets shipped off to war. lol

[Tidus Andronicus]

GTA wasn't that good of a game, athough before my brother stole it from me, I did enjoy messing around in GTA 3... lol

In my opinion, this game (GTA SA) shouldn't be given to anyone under 16 or 17... But it doesn't deserve an AO rating... even if sexual matterial was there, it was COMPLETELY HIDDEN and not accessable in the game. Only through 3rd party software, was the sexual part of the game even viewable!

I'd like to first point out that people Like Hillary Clinton are attention seekers... as well as the grandma thats sueing take two, cause she GAVE HER 14yo GRANDSON the game... (btw, she doesn't even have a case there, cause the game was M which still means you can't give it to a <17yo...) AND the loyar thats sueing EA for the mods of Sims 2.
BTW, there are mods (completely 3rd party) out there for Sims 2 that even include child porn mods... but mods can't be held against a game, cause if it was a lot of games would be illegal in most countries...
Which is why, GTA shouldn't be in trouble for this... Because it NEEDED a mod (a 3rd party software) to access the sexually explicit content. Honestly, I dont see a difference!
The people who spoke out against the game, are the same kind of people that had problems with original Mortal Kombat games back when the blood feature was scaring people. XD Which by todays standards is completely harmless.
They just wanted attention, or money... Or maybe they just wanted to be complete jerks, and just force MORE cencorship on games...

Unfortunetly, this incedent will probably force game ratings to a new lvl... >_> which will once again limit what the can be put in games... stifling artistic creation among games.(although I'd never consider GTA art xD)...
I'm serious, this event was all censorship people needed to continue their fight against videogames...>_>

[Madame Adequate]

That's what I mean. I feel that's exactly what justifies having a ratings and restriction system on software of this type.

Fully agreed. So long as the ratings and suchlike can be overridden by parental say-so, I've no major qualms with a rating system.

[XSabinX]

Honestly, everyone is so worried over sex in this damn country. I mean for christ's sake, there are more problems out there other than sex! There are people getting shot over in Iraq, people starving, people dieing of diseases, drug problems and alcholism and they go after something that is a minor thing. Hilary Clinton is a bitch and the only reason she did this is to mis-direct every ones attention off of the real problems in this world and blame it on something that takes part in 95% of everyones lives everyday. Maybe shes trying to justify her husband cheating on her and make her feel big for doing this. A little nudity wont hurt anybody. To say sex is wrong is saying what recreates life wrong.


Oh and on the topic of companies becoming more strict with ratings, me and my cousin stopped in a gamestop today because he wanted to pickup a copy of Ninja Gaiden and he was asked for ID. Thats complete bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif

[Jessweeee♪]

i'm just glad i didn't buy a PC version. Mines for ps2 so my parents still let me play.

[Strider]

Just do what you do when you want alcohol or cigarettes.

Get someone else to get it for you.

[Lindy]

God of War has a mini-game where you actively participate in the action of sex, pressing the right buttons arouses the woman you're pleasuring and rewards you with more red orbs.

Now exactly how is Rockstar getting a load of complaints about a hidden option in a game, when God of War has that as an open, and easily accessible mini-game?

It's all a lot of rubbish, and the people who want to make the world "safe for our children" have been looking for a chance to jump on Rockstar whenever and wherever possible.

God forbid that PARENTS take responsibility for the actions of their children, it's always the fault of TV/Movies/Video Games/Peer Pressure.

[Strider]

That'd be too easy.

[Fonzie]

I've still have yet to unlock the code for that part of the game :tongue:

[XxSephirothxX]

God of War has a mini-game where you actively participate in the action of sex, pressing the right buttons arouses the woman you're pleasuring and rewards you with more red orbs.

Now exactly how is Rockstar getting a load of complaints about a hidden option in a game, when God of War has that as an open, and easily accessible mini-game?

It's all a lot of rubbish, and the people who want to make the world "safe for our children" have been looking for a chance to jump on Rockstar whenever and wherever possible.

God forbid that PARENTS take responsibility for the actions of their children, it's always the fault of TV/Movies/Video Games/Peer Pressure.

You're exactly right that parents should take the responsibility. However, the two cases really are different. In God of War, you don't actually SEE the action taking place. All you see is the vase tottering back and forth when you press the right buttons. Plus, there's the fact that Rockstar didn't reveal that this was in the game. Of course, it wasn't supposed to be accessible, but it was there nevertheless. Doesn't mean I agree with all the people outraged over this, but God of War's sex minigame is just different enough not to warrant an AO rating, I'd say.

[DJZen]

I love how people over-react any time they hear news....

People, Clockwork Orange was given an X rating when it came out. Did that stop people from seeing it? No. That's not the point of ratings. The point of ratings is to give people a frame of reference as to the content of the media itself. Using this, parents can make vaguely more well informed decisions, and people with easily upset stomachs can avoid things they'd rather not see.

You can relax, life will go on, it's only a video game.

[Xalibar]

Heres an email i got from rockstar after i emailed about the ao rating thing:

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for contacting Rockstar Technical Support.

Rockstar Games has ceased manufacturing of the current version of the title
and will begin working on a version of the game with enhanced security to
prevent the "hot coffee" modifications. This version will retain the
original ESRB M-rating and is expected to be available during the fourth
fiscal quarter. Rockstar Games will be providing AO labels for retailers
who wish to continue to sell the current version of the title.

Take-Two and Rockstar Games have always worked to keep mature-themed video
game content out of the hands of children and we will continue to work
closely with the ESRB and community leaders to improve and better promote a
reliable rating system to help consumers make informed choices about which
video games are appropriate for each individual's. The ESRB's decision to
re-rate a game based on an unauthorized third party modification presents a
new challenge for parents, the interactive entertainment industry and
anyone who distributes or consumes digital content. Rockstar Games is
pleased that the investigation is now settled and they look forward to
returning their focus to making innovative and groundbreaking video games
for a mature audience."

The scenes depicted in the "hot coffee" modification are not playable in
the retail version of the game unless the user downloads and/or installs
unauthorized software that alters the content of the original retail
version of the title, representing a violation of Take-Two and Rockstar's
end user license agreement (EULA) and intellectual property rights. We are
deeply concerned that the publicity surrounding these unauthorized
modifications has caused the game to be misrepresented to the public and
has detracted from the creative merits of this award winning product.

Rockstar Games will be making available shortly a downloadable software
patch to render Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for PC impervious to the "hot
coffee" modification. Rockstar encourages parent groups and political
leaders to assist with distribution of the patch to prevent the content of
the modification from spreading further.

Please be sure to delete all previous correspondence when replying. This
will help us to process your response in a more timely and efficient manner.

Kind Regards,
Rockstar Technical Support


I don't need the hot coffee mod to see sex, i have a computer.