Is Rinoa realley Ultimecia!

[Discord]

Well... lets see some numbers.

http://maxgrin.front.ru/Rinoa_Ultimecia.gif

For further reference or DISCUSSION use this thread:
http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65400

[Christmas]

Look, there is already a lot of threads discussing this topic already.....

[LunaticPandora37]

NO SHE ISN'T...END OF STORY!!!

[Discord]

Look, there is already a lot of threads discussing this topic already.....

I know, but there are no poles. I'm just wondering how many people keep to which theory.

[ThroneofDravaris]

It is doubtful Rinoa is Ultimecia, simply because of the way she treats herself in the past. Rinoa almost dies because of her, and if Rinoa is Ultimecia, then that means she almost killed herself.

Doesn’t that make sense to anyone?

[Discord]

It is doubtful Rinoa is Ultimecia, simply because of the way she treats herself in the past. Rinoa almost dies because of her, and if Rinoa is Ultimecia, then that means she almost killed herself.

Doesn’t that make sense to anyone?

The answer to me is the last one on the list, but you know, she might be an old mindless lady by then:)

[Reddragon]

I like those R=U theory

But...If Ulti=Rinoa,this is a terrible ending of FFVIII....
No!I don't want to be like this

[crazybayman]

Yes! This again!!! :hyper:

:rolleyes2

[Future Esthar]

Voted the one before the last one

[boys from the dwarf]

R+U=crapola.

[Discord]

Woa! Well, prett um... interesting results till now. I suppose the people who support the U=R Theory haven't read the post yet:)

[crazybayman]

Woa! Well, prett um... interesting results till now. I suppose the people who support the U=R Theory haven't read the post yet:)
I would say that most people don't, due to the fact that it has been debated a lot until now, and people have made up their minds.

[Christmas]

Woa! Well, prett um... interesting results till now. I suppose the people who support the U=R Theory haven't read the post yet:)

If the post that you talking about is the link to the thread you put up in your first post of this thread, then let just say the first half is discussing how R=U while the second half is......

Go read it yourself and you will know.......

[Discord]

Woa! Well, prett um... interesting results till now. I suppose the people who support the U=R Theory haven't read the post yet:)

If the post that you talking about is the link to the thread you put up in your first post of this thread, then let just say the first half is discussing how R=U while the second half is......

Go read it yourself and you will know.......

Its pretty hard to catch out what you are talking about at the current stage of the thread. May I ask for a little summary or a hint?

[rubah]

I see there is an overwhelming majority.

[Discord]

How pathetic will it look if we get 100 votes for "no" and none for "yes":)

[Slade]

What i dont get is why so many people have a problem with this theory. They go completely anal like its the end of the world! Jees. Personally I think its a great twist

[Christmas]

Its pretty hard to catch out what you are talking about at the current stage of the thread. May I ask for a little summary or a hint?

Haha. Someone actually went to make a summary thread for his theories. Go read it at:

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=66468

[Rini]

What i dont get is why so many people have a problem with this theory. They go completely anal like its the end of the world! Jees. Personally I think its a great twist
My thoughts exactly.

I don't really think she's Ulti, but it's always nice to speculate while playing the game.
So I answered "no, but have strong doubts" ...not that they are particularily strong, but bleh.

[Mercen-X]

Something that just started bugging me. (sorry if it seems stupid, I haven't played 8 in years).

How can Ultimecia come from the future if she is "trapped" in a timeloop?

Edea takes over Galbadia. Edea is revealed to be possessed by Ultimecia. Ultimecia possesses Rinoa. Ultirinoa frees Adel. Ultimecia . . . disappears for awhile. Adel is defeated and her powers are passed to Rinoa. Eventually, Squall and crew face and defeat Ultimecia. Ultimecia's powers are passed on to Edea via time travel. Then the cycle rebegins.
So where do Ultimecia's true origins lie? Where the hell did she come from?

[Sir Bahamut]

Ultimecia comes from the future she is born in, simple as that. And she's not trapped inside a timeloop. It's just that her rise to power is rooted in what comes across as a loop in time.

A better question would be, for instance, where does the origin of the term "SeeD" come from. Because after all, Squall knows about it because of Edea, but Edea knows about it because of Squall!

[Xaven]

Ultimecia comes from the future she is born in, simple as that. And she's not trapped inside a timeloop. It's just that her rise to power is rooted in what comes across as a loop in time.

A better question would be, for instance, where does the origin of the term "SeeD" come from. Because after all, Squall knows about it because of Edea, but Edea knows about it because of Squall!

Here's what I think about that:

When the game started, time was strolling along normally. Edea came up with the idea for Garden and SeeD's by herself as said by the story. Fast Forward. Squall and friends take out Ulty and Squall gets lost and winds up before the time that the game started. He talks with Edea (known as Matron in that time) and gives her the idea for Garden and SeeD's despite the fact that she would have come up with it by herself a little while later. Gardens are created along with SeeD's even though she got the idea a little earlier than she otherwise would have. Time goes loopy in a time loop.
-The End!

Okay, back on track.


Voted the one before the last one
Me too.

[Squall of SeeD]

He talks with Edea (known as Matron in that time)...

"Edea" is her name. "Matron" was her position at the Orphanage.

[Mercen-X]

Ultimecia comes from the future she is born in, simple as that. And she's not trapped inside a timeloop. It's just that her rise to power is rooted in what comes across as a loop in time.
You say all this like it is suppose to make perfect sense. When does Ultimecia come from the future? Is that her arrival during Squall and crew's final trip through her sanctum sanctorum? Is she just now arriving right there at the end?

[Shoden]

Aeris= Ultimecia you incompitent fool!

[Sir Bahamut]

You say all this like it is suppose to make perfect sense. When does Ultimecia come from the future? Is that her arrival during Squall and crew's final trip through her sanctum sanctorum? Is she just now arriving right there at the end?

It DOES make perfect sense. Look:

Everyone is celebrating defeating Ultimecia right, but then they all go back on with their ordinary lives. Several hundreds of years later, a girl named Ultimecia is born. She becomes a sorceress bent on compressing time. She then uses Junction Machine Ellone to travel back in time, etc. etc. until she is finally defeated. She gives up her powers to Edea in the past and then dies. That's it as far as Ultimecia is concerned.

So I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to ask. Can you please clarify?

[Jessweeee♪]

Well I haven't seen the ending yet (i keep losing my games and memory cards!!!) and don't tell me either what it is...but from what i saw here's my opinion: Ultimecia inherits rinoa's powers through a long line of other sorceresses.

[Sir Bahamut]

That's the jist of it. Of course, there are those who suggest that Rinoa is in fact Ultimecia, but there's isn't much that can back that up to a very plausible level, so generally your take is considered correct.

[The Anarchy Angel]

I haven't a clue, I just let the damn game play. This theory has caused so many arguments, people should just leave it alone and accept their own ending how they want it! sheesh

[* White Aeris *]

i don't know... but it would be quite good if she was.... lets email square!!!! and pressure them for an answer!!!

[liamo]

they already said that she wasn't
and that time loop thing now has my head going in loops thanks for that

[Jessweeee♪]

yeah...mine is too...
ultimecia might have influenced time with the machine she was using and somehow caused powers to go to her if she didn't have them already, but no she is not rinoa

[Rinoa_Heartillly]

It's kinda nice to believe in the thoery, but alot of people have their own thoughts about it too. However, with some of the evidence that were left in the game, it show that there is a sort of connection to her and Ultimecia.^^

[liamo]

the only connection that i see is that rinoas powers may have passed on to ultimicia thats about it

[Zanius]

I think that Rinoa is not Ultimecia, and Ultimecia is a sorceress from the future and she came to the present by a machine called Ellone's machine that was constructed by doctor Odine.

Rinoa in my point of view was already a sorceress but her inner powers were somehow "blocked". In the end of Disc 2, after the Edea's defeat, Ultimecia realizes that Edea was no longer for their purposes and she wasn't useful to her. So she went after someone who had some kind of affinity with her, in that case Rinoa. After the contact with Ultimecia, Rinoa's inner powers were "unlocked" somehow.

That's a part of the game that's not very well explained, but one thing is for sure, that Riona is a sorceress as Ultimecia, Elone and Edea; but she doesn't had explored well her abilities, and the only concern of the game’s story was to find a way to defeat Ultimecia, Adel and save Riona as well.

I don’t know what you guys think about this theory, but I guess that’s close of the truth…

[Sir Bahamut]

Rinoas powers weren't blocked or anything like that. That's not how sorceress powers work. Once you receive the powers, you have the powers, simple as that.

Now, what actually happens at the end of disc 2, when you defeat Edea, is that Ultimecia forces Edea to give Rinoa her powers. Ultimecia realised that with Edea quite beaten, she needed to use someone else instead. That 'somone' was Rinoa.

After receiving her powers, she fell into some sort of coma. This is either because her body needed time to get used to the new powers, or because Ultimecia had already started possessing her then, but needed time to get Rinoa fully under her control. Either way, Rinoa wakes up as a sorceress.

[Kakashi509]

no here is the complicated R=U theory that makes Ultimecia Tifa=Rinoa=Ultimecia=Really fat guy=Seymour

[Zanius]

Rinoas powers weren't blocked or anything like that. That's not how sorceress powers work. Once you receive the powers, you have the powers, simple as that.

Now, what actually happens at the end of disc 2, when you defeat Edea, is that Ultimecia forces Edea to give Rinoa her powers. Ultimecia realised that with Edea quite beaten, she needed to use someone else instead. That 'somone' was Rinoa.

After receiving her powers, she fell into some sort of coma. This is either because her body needed time to get used to the new powers, or because Ultimecia had already started possessing her then, but needed time to get Rinoa fully under her control. Either way, Rinoa wakes up as a sorceress.

Well so you are saying that Riona is not a sorceress from the beginning right? But she became one after she had the contact with Ultimecia?

So she received a part of Ultimecia's power and became a sorceress. Well now that we talk about this, I must say that could have some logic...

But Edea in the past received the Ultimecia's powers and she was already a sorceress. So Rinoa had to be a sorceress from the beginning, right? I think that not every human being that receive a sorcerer power and from now on, becomes a sorcerer as well. I guess that these kinds of power are transmitted between sorceress and not sorceress to humans, right? :confused:

But one thing is for sure Ultimecia is not Rinoa. ;)

[bipper]

Righ ton Xaven - I posted about the same thing before too. I do belive it to be the best supported theory.



Squall is the crux of a time loop encompassing the events of Final Fantasy VIII as well as about twelve years prior. Upon defeating Ultimecia, as his comrades are pulled back from time compression into their own respective places in the timeline, Squall takes a detour back to the orphanage, where he encounters Edea. Edea ends up absorbing the dying Ultimecia's powers as part of the cycle of sorceresses (a sorceress must pass on her powers to a successor before she is allowed to die), and wonders aloud about endings and beginnings (dialogue mirroring words to Squall years later, on Disc 3). Squall plants the ideas for Garden and SeeD in her mind, creating a loop in which he must become the leader of Balamb Garden so that he can make it to this point again. Edea correctly guesses who he is, which is why Headmaster Cid knows to turn over leadership of the Garden to him, specifically. As part of his fear of having others rely on him, Squall has a hard time dealing with this for a while.

I had posted that deep in a FE argument forum :)
More great evidence is when Edea has seifer torture the hell outta squall to reveal the meaning of SeeD. So this is argubally som GREAT interpative ecvidence.

So would that mean that Ulti, can see into the minds of the posessed? probolly:)

Bipper

[liamo]

if ultimicia could read into the minds of those she posses wouldn't she know what SeeD already is seeing as Edea created it?

[Sir Bahamut]

So she received a part of Ultimecia's power and became a sorceress. Well now that we talk about this, I must say that could have some logic...

She didn't receive part of Ultimecias powers, she received all of Edeas powers. Look, Edea is a sorceress, with sorceress powers. Ultimecia is possessing Edea. This possession means that Ultimecia only has access to what powers Edea has, nothing more. After the battle in the Auditorium, Ultimecia, still being in control of Edea, has Edea give all her(Edeas) powers to Rinoa.

Ultimecias powers remained the same during all this naturally, as she was safe and snug in her own time, hundreds of years away.


But Edea in the past received the Ultimecia's powers and she was already a sorceress. So Rinoa had to be a sorceress from the beginning, right?

I don't see why. Edea was a sorceress before Ultimecia gave her her powers because when she(Edea) was 5 years old(long before Ultimecia comes) another sorceress had given Edea her powers. So Edea gets two sets of powers in the game; one from an unknown sorceress in the past, and one from Ultimecia of the future.

Rinoa was not a sorceress before she received Edeas powers, or at least, nothing indicates this and it wouldn't make much sense if she was. Instead, she first received Edeas powers, and then Adels.


I think that not every human being that receive a sorcerer power and from now on, becomes a sorcerer as well. I guess that these kinds of power are transmitted between sorceress and not sorceress to humans, right?

Both can happen. We know normal human beings can become sorceresses due to many reasons, Rinoa included. However, we also know that "sorceresses avoid spreading their powers too thin", which means they would usually want to give their powers to someone already a sorceress, like when Ultimecia gives her powers to Edea in the ending.

But both ways are possible, and both happen in the course of the game.


So would that mean that Ulti, can see into the minds of the posessed? probolly

Probably to some extent, yes, seeing as her hosts could glean information from Ultimecia. We also see Squall and Co read 'hear' Lagunas thoughts when they're inside him, and they're not even trying to take control over him!



if ultimicia could read into the minds of those she posses wouldn't she know what SeeD already is seeing as Edea created it?

Another point is that she would probably find out where Ellone was if she could fully read Edeas mind. It seems that although Ultimecia was likely able to read emotions and some thoughts and such, she couldn't fully crack open their inner thoughts.

[Christmas]

Edea was human until she was a kid I think is 5 that she received her first sorceress power form another sorceress and turned into one.

From what I know, no human is born sorceress until they received their powers from a source. I dun know where Hyne got his powers but he is the one that passed some of his powers to humans and begin this cycle.

Although I dun know for sure whether if a sorceress give birth to a child and the child will inherit her power? I am not sure if sorceress power transfer is affected by genetics.

But if it do, then if Rinoa is a sorceress in the begining also mean Julia is a sorceress since she give birth to her? Future's theory? No way.....


More great evidence is when Edea has seifer torture the hell outta squall to reveal the meaning of SeeD. So this is argubally som GREAT interpative ecvidence.

So would that mean that Ulti, can see into the minds of the posessed? probolly

So you are trying to said Ultimecia can't read Edea's mind even if she possessed her since Edea herself know the true meaning of SeeD all along.

So whatever Edea know Ultimecia dun know?....so?

[bipper]

So you are trying to said Ultimecia can't read Edea's mind even if she possessed her since Edea herself know the true meaning of SeeD all along.

So whatever Edea know Ultimecia dun know?....so?


Some good points, yes! :) It was just a last though thrown in there - din't give it much merit myself. You guys are just too damn good :cool:

Prahapse Ulti knew that Edea had started SeeD then and just asumed squall would know, as he is the leader. (The most blantent excuse)

Anywho, the entire histoy of sorceresses confuse me. There was one mother sorc, hyne, whom passed her power on - to multiple sorcs then? then those sorceresses could only pass on to one? Sounds like somthing else - I think i am gonna have to post my first ff8 thought later :)




Bipper

[Sir Bahamut]

Read ther story of Hyne here:

http://www.geocities.com/aarinfantasy4/guideint3a.jpg

To summarise:

Hyne was the first sorceress. The term implies female gender, but he is called "he" as well, so it's impossible to tell. Hyne may not have had a specific gender at all. Anyway, Hyne seems to be some sort of demi-God. He created human beings to function as his slaves, yet he was not immortal, and could be killed by humans. He did, however, almost certainly have infinite lifespan. That's why he could take a nap, and wake up to find the human race to have grown to an uncontrollable level. To fix this, Hyne starts killing children, which naturally pisses the human race off.

Sometime after their fight, or in the midst of the fight, whenever, Hyne distributes his power(uncertain whether he gave away all his power or just a portion of it) to several women/girls, who become the first sorceresses.

And that's all there is to it. Sorceresses all have a fragment of Hynes power, simple as that.

[Jessweeee♪]

you know...seeing as rinoa still existed, in a time compressed world ultimecia would get her powers no matter what.

[Rinoa_Heartillly]

Man you guys really have all this covered and stuffs, and have too much time on you hands. J/K :tongue:

[bipper]

you know...seeing as rinoa still existed, in a time compressed world ultimecia would get her powers no matter what.

Rinoa is ulti - geez we already decided this -_- Naw, actually the common concesus is that TC did not finish.

Thanks for that Bahamut, it makes a lot more sence with that summary. :beer: :meditate:

Bipper

[Zanius]

To Sir Bahamut:

Ok, thanks, now you explained well your point! :)

I didn't saw this point of view on this side, but I agree with you. ;) :D