Which of these theories fit better the storyline?

[Future Esthar]

Let the confrontation start.

[crazybayman]

How about:

NONE. :rolleyes2

Squall Father's? WTF??!?!?

[Future Esthar]

You were so quick.How do you did that?

[crazybayman]

Guess its just coincidence that I was checking th forums just as you created the thread, but before you set-up the pole :p

Shouldn't it be Laguna and Raine were Squall's Parents?

[Future Esthar]

That theory is not mine.It´s known on the internet as Rinoa=Ulti.

What´s the difference between father´s and parent´s?

[Destai]

I'll assume you meant parents.

[Future Esthar]

I am not American,sorry.

[crazybayman]

I am not American,sorry.
oookkkkaayyyy.........we gather that Future

So should "Fathers" be "Parents"?? Seriously.

[Discord]

*wink*

As long as the point is clear, who cares?:)

[crazybayman]

*wink*

As long as the point is clear, who cares?:)
Yes.....but I wouldn't want the chap to continue to make that mistake, seeing that he still has a bit to learn in the english language.


What´s the difference between father´s and parent´s?

Father generally means the Male individual of one's parents.

I'm pretty sure Raine is a Female, which would make her Squall's Mother, not Father.

"Parents" refer to both the mother and the father......(or the mother and the mother....or the father and the father).....

In this case, it would mean the Mother and the Father

[Christmas]

I can't believe we already spend almost half a page on the father and parent thing.........

I have a feeling this will just like the previous poll which ended up into a debate instead of a simple poll, I certainly dun hope so.

[Destai]

Well the parent thing wins because the storyline actually suggests that theyre Squalls parents which is more than can be said for the other theories.

[Future Esthar]

That thing about Square confirming officially the last theory (let
´s call it L+R=S) can be a lie.

And no,there were no more things to suggest L+R=S than the others.

[Destai]

That thing about Square confirming officially the last theory (let
´s call it L+R=S) can be a lie.

And no,there were no more things to suggest L+R=S than the others.yeah there were. Laguna almost admits it to Squall at one point. He says we need to have a long talk once all of this is over or something like that on the ragnorok. And I think Kiros says you look just like your Dad or something like that. Plus Ellone always put Squall in Lagunas body. Theres other suggestions scattered throughout the game. Heck you could even count Laguna having Squalls card as a suggestion to it.

Esthar I have a theory that your warped perception of VIII is caused by your different language.

[crazybayman]

That thing about Square confirming officially the last theory (let
´s call it L+R=S) can be a lie.

And no,there were no more things to suggest L+R=S than the others.yeah there were. Laguna almost admits it to Squall at one point. He says we need to have a long talk once all of this is over or something like that on the ragnorok. And I think Kiros says you look just like your Dad or something like that. Plus Ellone always put Squall in Lagunas body. Theres other suggestions scattered throughout the game. Heck you could even count Laguna having Squalls card as a suggestion to it.

Esthar I have a theory that your warped perception of VIII is caused by your different language.

That, and the fact that as a child Squall is always clinging tight to his "sis", because she's all he's got because his mother died, and his dad is in Esthar.

FE, how can it be a lie if Square have confirmed it? If the creators of the game confirm it, then it is true. Its like saying I'm a human, I need oxygen to survive.

So now your calling Square a bunch of liars?

[Christmas]

BTW, since this is a poll then it the majority of the votes that matters right?

And the Majority of the vote goes to Laguna and Raine are Squall's father......parents.

But are you going to prove that what the public or the majority of the voters that what they believe in are wrong?

[Discord]

Has Square ever officially confiremed anything? Like the R=U was said to be a lie, but not officially. I don't think that they would do anything like that, for various reasons, plus maybe it was though of as a twist that was not ment to be answered. You know, Steven King has a bunch of those and when the fans ask him, he just says:"I don't have a bloody clue":)

[Alexander]

Laguna and Raine are Squall's parents. Because the others are TOTALLY IDIOT. o.o

[Abraxas]

This poll should not include the fourth option.
I think it doesn't negate or support any of the other three.... besides, I believe everyoone agrees that the fourth is more than accepted and obviously suggested by the game itself.

[Ohhh]

laguna and raine are his parents and i like to believe ult is rinoa, even if it isnt true, it would make sense if it was.. thus that is what i believe :D

[Lenna]

Gawd It's so smurfing obvious that Raine and Laguna are Squall's parents, not to mention that his place of Birth was WinHill. Where you go and see Raine & Laguna together for the first time. And to be honest do you actually ever see anyone else calling Ellone "Sis" during the game other than when Squall says "oh we called her sis because she was the oldest of the lot". You only see him saying Sis when they were all little if I'm correct. And yes when she does that taking them into the past thing she always puts Squall into Laguna's body.

This is just like saying Rinoa's mum isn't Julia. *rolls eyes*

Soooooooooo I'm sorry but this isn't classed as a "theory" therefore is practically off topic ;o

[Dreddz]

None

[Future Esthar]

Has Square ever officially confiremed anything? Like the R=U was said to be a lie, but not officially. I don't think that they would do anything like that, for various reasons, plus maybe it was though of as a twist that was not ment to be answered. You know, Steven King has a bunch of those and when the fans ask him, he just says:"I don't have a bloody clue"

Exactly my point.
Maybe Square even don´t confirm it.
It could be a lie from the person who told it.
__________________

[Destai]

No its pretty clear that Raine had a child younger than Ellone and died hence that child was shipped to an orphanage and grew up there. That child bein practically confirmed Lagunas in the ending. The child is younger than Ellone like the rest of the kids from the orphanage. Then theres the references like Laguna holding Squalls card. Laguna, Raine and Squalls name all having a water reference. Then take into account how Ellone has a particular interest in Squall who if the theory is correct is the son of the closest thing Ellone has/had to parents. Plus Kiros says you look like your father to Squall, hence Kiros knows Squalls father and Laguna says he wants to have an important discussion after everythings calmed down. Why is this different to R=U or the usual smut/theories for FFVIII on these boards? Because the game actually goes out on a limb to suggest the theory is true.

And last I heard Autumn Rain had a magazine with a letter from Square proving the R=U theory false.

[Christmas]

Exactly my point.
Maybe Square even don´t confirm it
It could be a lie from the person who told

It also doesn't say the others are right either since Square didn't confirm the other theories and even so they can be also be lies since the game events and scripts are already full of lies pointed out by you.

And no, it does not link to your theories.Since Square can lie about the L+R=S theory, your other theories is also hidden by Square like what you did with the last poll. I can also say that your theories is also lies since there is already so much lying going around here and there.

This L+R=S theory is supported by several in game events and strong hints which is pointed out by others and the majority of the people catch the hint which reflected on the result of your poll.

Only a minority of the people think that Ulti is actually Edea but I am not saying it wrong either since this is a poll, we go for the majority. The majority voted "4" so which mean most of the public believed in that which mean the verdict.

And if you wanted to convince others the others there is something more than meets the eyes, let's just say the poll result reflect what they think and not what you want them to think.

[Xaven]

Wait. You said that Julia=Edea=Ultimecia. Why did you seperate them out in your poll (soon to be theory thread)?

Oh, I vote the fourth choice as it is by far the most hinted at (and makes the most sense) of the selection.

[boys from the dwarf]

the bottom one because its the only true one.(apart from where youve put raine is sqalls father.)

[vivi-forever]

The ownly one i think is true is R+L=S although i like the idea of R=U it is impossoble, but i am trying to get myself to beleave it is true because i like the idea.

[boys from the dwarf]

The ownly one i think is true is R+L=S although i like the idea of R=U it is impossoble, but i am trying to get myself to beleave it is true because i like the idea.
the r=u theory is :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: what evidence that is actually true proves it?its anice theory but i not true.

[Future Esthar]

Hope reddragon was not being sarcastic.

I was a proponent of L+R=S until yesterday.
Today I noted that Squall could be Irvine+Selphie´s son.

Ulti=Edea and Ulti=Julia was separated because the demonstrations were different.

[Christmas]

Hope reddragon was not being sarcastic.

I was a proponent of L+R=S until yesterday.
Today I noted that Squall could be Irvine+Selphie´s son.

Ulti=Edea and Ulti=Julia was separated because the demonstrations were different.

Hey dude, you just dun learn do you? Whenever we point out something amiss you just quickly change it to cover it up, Why can't you just make up your mind and post everything at one shot instead of changing it here and there and if isn't complete, dun post it till you are done.

[Destai]

Hope reddragon was not being sarcastic.

I was a proponent of L+R=S until yesterday.
Today I noted that Squall could be Irvine+Selphie´s son.

Ulti=Edea and Ulti=Julia was separated because the demonstrations were different.No they couldnt. Irvine and Selphie are the same age as Squall and never time travelled. The game never suggests they did so they didnt. And typical of you, you're suggesting that just because something possible (keeping in mind it isnt) that its more likely than what the game suggests.

[Del Murder]

I think Bahamut=Selphie. I call it the BS theory.

[Future Esthar]

Are you serious or being sarcastic?

[Squall of SeeD]

Are you serious or being sarcastic?

He's obviously being sarcastic. "BS" is a play on "Bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif," Future.

[NeoTifa]

i dont see why people kept picking knew last one. everybody knows laguna and raine were squalls parents. and why doesnt it just say fathers?

[Vyk]

Future Esthar isn't a native to english. He didn't realize there's a difference between "faters" and "parents". And in the beginning of this thread you mentioned that these aren't your theories. Why argue for or against them? And why the heck pick the one to argue against that's most widely supported? Laguna is Squall's father. Rinoa and Ellone are seperate human entities. Neither of them are robots. I don't know where you come up with this kinda stuff. Irvine and Selphie?! Even if they do get hip and end up having a kid in the future, in order for it to be Squall they woulda had to send it to the past (or rather, the present, in the game). But why would they do that? And what would Laguna know about it? Why would he want to talk to Squall so badly at the end? Aside from compressed time screwing everything up, most of FF8 is very straight forward. Its one of the least confusing plots of the series. Why try to make up insane theories about this game when there's still questions going on for FF7, and 6 even, and probably previous ones. Gah, I'm sorry, but everytime I see a FF8 thread made my Future Esthar I can always expect a lot of garbage to be spewed T_T Why? Where are you getting these ideas from @_@ I'd love to see inside your head.

[blackline77]

for some people who think rinoa is ultimecia theory is true im tellin u its whack.
first of all if ultemicia is from the future and u go to the future to fight her and u KILL her. then shes dead. if r=u then that means even if it was her from the future she
should drop dead when u kill ultimecia. what does this theory tell u that when rinoa dies
she kills herself in the future??????? come on people were smarter than that.

[Future Esthar]

To say Rinoa is Ulti is to deny what the game had tell us.
The game tells that Ulti lives many generations ahead of our time.
So unless you don´t believe the game script Rinoa cannot be Ulti.
Even if she don´t age.

[Shauna]

To say Rinoa is Ulti is to deny what the game had tell us.

You seem to constantly contradict yourself...

Irvine+Selphie = Squall is going against what the game told us. All your theories go against what the game tells us.

Yet, here you are telling us that something, that many people believe to be true, not just one person, that it goes against what the game tells us.

[Destai]

To say Rinoa is Ulti is to deny what the game had tell us.
The game tells that Ulti lives many generations ahead of our time.
So unless you don´t believe the game script Rinoa cannot be Ulti.
Even if she don´t age.Yes as has been said your contradicting yourself as the script is what the characters speak and you're the person who ignores random pieces of script to support theories even if theres no reason to see that oarticular script piece as a lie.
Just for conversation an argued point with R=U is that if Rinoa had no one to pass her powers onto then she would not be able to die.

[sparkie]

To say Rinoa is Ulti is to deny what the game had tell us.
The game tells that Ulti lives many generations ahead of our time.
So unless you don´t believe the game script Rinoa cannot be Ulti.
Even if she don´t age.
Well then why DON'T you believe it? You're the one who doesn't believe the game script. And I hate to ask but how would it be impossible even if they don't age?

Doesn't anyone else find it funny that he's gone beyond the point of even believing the R=U theory??? I mean, people thought that that was crazy, but... Future's got even better ideas!


Just for conversation an argued point with R=U is that if Rinoa had no one to pass her powers onto then she would not be able to die.
I thought they just wouldn't be able to die peacefully... That is the only part I remember about sorceresses dying so I may be wrong.

[Christmas]

To say Rinoa is Ulti is to deny what the game had tell us.
The game tells that Ulti lives many generations ahead of our time.
So unless you don´t believe the game script Rinoa cannot be Ulti.
Even if she don´t age.

Not this riddles again aren't you?

Are you trying to say this can be apply to your theory of Ulti = Edea & Ulit = Julia and all those fancy stuff since ppl dun believe that Ulti live many generations ahead of their time like told by the game?

In summary, you are trying to tell people they are contradicting with themselves since they can accept R=U but not U=E=J which also said that they themselves also dun believe in the game script by doing this?

Nice try, dude but correct me if I am wrong.


Irvine+Selphie = Squall is going against what the game told us. All your theories go against what the game tells us.

Maybe I should explain this. Future stated that "X" which I claimed to be Hyne/Yu Yevon compressed the FF VIII time and brought all the cast from different time into the same time without them knowing it. So Edea might live 20 years or so before Rinoa time and Quistis live 20 years after Rinoa's time and the list goes on and trust me, you won't want to know the family tree that he said which is the true bloodline relation of all FF VIII main characters.


Just for conversation an argued point with R=U is that if Rinoa had no one to pass her powers onto then she would not be able to die.

If that case Adel can't die since she have no one to pass her powers to. So like sparkie said, they just can't die in peace.

[Skyblade]

Just for conversation an argued point with R=U is that if Rinoa had no one to pass her powers onto then she would not be able to die.

If that case Adel can't die since she have no one to pass her powers to. So like sparkie said, they just can't die in peace.

Um, Adel passed her powers on to Rinoa. I'm not sure how you missed that bit...

[Squall of SeeD]

Just for conversation an argued point with R=U is that if Rinoa had no one to pass her powers onto then she would not be able to die.

If that case Adel can't die since she have no one to pass her powers to. So like sparkie said, they just can't die in peace.

Um, Adel passed her powers on to Rinoa. I'm not sure how you missed that bit...

She died and her body disintegrated, and then her powers passed to Rinoa. The Witch Embodiment didn't actually leave her body until it was destroyed, which is quite different from what we see Ultimecia doing when she gives up her powers to Edea and then disintegrates.

Passing it on is only stated to let a Witch die in peace, not to make it possible for a Witch to die.

[Christmas]

Um, Adel passed her powers on to Rinoa. I'm not sure how you missed that bit...

Alright dude, that is an example......maybe not such a good example I must admit....sorry for the confusion caused... :cry:



Adel will need to pass on her powers before being defeated. Rinoa, you be willing to accept them?

And it is proven here if anyone need reference....

[Future Esthar]

Unknowns,you are right about what I am trying to do here.
If you acept R=U knowing it contradict the game script I can also do that.I am also allowed to do that.I am not the only one.

[Squall of SeeD]

Unknowns,you are right about what I am trying to do here.
If you acept R=U knowing it contradict the game script I can also do that.I am also allowed to do that.I am not the only one.

I don't see many of us accepting that theory, Future.

[Future Esthar]

I refer to those who accept.

[bipper]

Just for conversation an argued point with R=U is that if Rinoa had no one to pass her powers onto then she would not be able to die.

From what i remeber it was a peaceful death. /shrug
I think with the r = u theory, the biggest evidence is the meloncolly wussed up rinoa when she forshadows with her friends. This is very self destructing behavior.

Now if i may ask, future. All of these theories of yours depend on weather or not the whole game was time compressed? This is what i see in squall personally - another example from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squall_Leonheart :

Squall is the crux of a time loop encompassing the events of Final Fantasy VIII as well as about twelve years prior. Upon defeating Ultimecia, as his comrades are pulled back from time compression into their own respective places in the timeline, Squall takes a detour back to the orphanage, where he encounters Edea. Edea ends up absorbing the dying Ultimecia's powers as part of the cycle of sorceresses (a sorceress must pass on her powers to a successor before she is allowed to die), and wonders aloud about endings and beginnings (dialogue mirroring words to Squall years later, on Disc 3). Squall plants the ideas for Garden and SeeD in her mind, creating a loop in which he must become the leader of Balamb Garden so that he can make it to this point again. Edea correctly guesses who he is, which is why Headmaster Cid knows to turn over leadership of the Garden to him, specifically. As part of his fear of having others rely on him, Squall has a hard time dealing with this for a while.
--------
This is what i see as true - a time loop.

Bipper

[Rini]

Raine & Laguna are Squall's parents.

I might add one thing to the ones already stated.
Raine's last name is Leonhart.Squall's last name is Leonhart. It can't be just a coincidence, can it?

[Future Esthar]

Where do you get that Raine´s last name is Leonhart.We just know her last name is Loire when she get´s married with Laguna.

[Fonzie]

Gosh, talk about you're national debates lol. How many times have you played ff8 through, Future.

[Xaven]

Gosh, talk about you're national debates lol. How many times have you played ff8 through, Future.

He's been playing it for six years and aparantly, almost non-stop. Well, that's what he said.

[Christmas]

Unknowns,you are right about what I am trying to do here.
If you acept R=U knowing it contradict the game script I can also do that.I am also allowed to do that.I am not the only one.

I didn't say I accept anything and I didn't even vote. All I can say is that I know your tricks way too well.

And there is only 4 people currently that accept theories another than Squall is Laguna and Raine's child. The majority do not support the other theories and since this is a poll, this is what the public reflect to you and your theories.

[Future Esthar]

Ulti=Edea.This is a lot more difficult to back up than Ulti=Julia,

I voted for Ulti =Julia.This is the one who is more easy to backup.
Just five lines for it.
1-Queens tend to paint herselfs as a symbol of proud.
2-There is only one picture of a queen on Ulti´s time.Which means Ulti is the first of the dinasty.
3-Ulti reds dress and must be old or transformed by magic or used a false hair.Never saw Dragon Ball?Their hairs get yellow when they use some powerfull attacks.
4-Julia is the only important person at the game which dresses red and has black hair
(i.e is equal to Julia phisically).
5-There is an organ on Ulti´s castle.This means that the ability to play piano was not lost on her life on WOTC.

[Christmas]

Ulti=Edea.This is a lot more difficult to back up than Ulti=Julia,

I voted for Ulti =Julia.This is the one who is more easy to backup.
Just five lines for it.
1-Queens tend to paint herselfs as a symbol of proud.
2-There is only one picture of a queen on Ulti´s time.Which means Ulti is the first of the dinasty.
3-Ulti reds dress and must be old or transformed by magic or used a false hair.Never saw Dragon Ball?Their hairs get yellow when they use some powerfull attacks.
4-Julia is the only important person at the game which dresses red and has black hair
(i.e is equal to Julia phisically).
5-There is an organ on Ulti´s castle.This means that the ability to play piano was not lost on her life on WOTC.
(to be edited)

Doesn't really matter how convincing your theories are, it is pointless. A poll reflect what the public think of a certain issue. And the poll result is what the the majority reflect, THEY DUN BELIEVE IN ULTI=EDEA, ULTI= JULIA and other stuff and I repeat this is only the majority of the public.

[liamo]

laguna and raine could be squalls parents as there is a slight hint to it when you get the ragnorock and accpet the mission from Laguna but then again it could just be that squall's parents knew Laguna and Co.

[Future Esthar]

Hello.Since when did the opinions of poople determine what is really happening on a game?

Continuing with my last post...

The L+R=S (let´s call it LRS) don´t even had pictures to back it up.

"Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.Moomba said Laguna after he licks Squall´s blood.It means Squall was Laguna´s sun"

This is the best you had to backup LRS.
But Laguna found some moombas during the game too.
The moomba who licked Squall´s blood had met Laguna and just tell his name to Squall.
Did that proof something?No.
-
Squall call Elle sis but we know they weren´t brothers.
The great relation between Squall and Ellone can also be explaned
by saying Squall loves Ellone.I don´t believe this was a older sister feeling.Squall is not so coward that he can´t live without Elle prottecting him.It was love. Squall loves her.Don´t remember the special girl thingy that Irvine tells and the knight thing Edea told?
Do you think it was just the girls who got lonelly and mad?
Squall is an example of a character who gets mad after Elle left
and start to calm down due to Rinoa?
Irvine is another example.But since he remember everything he don´t get mad.Just lonely.

About the dialog in the Ragnarok,they could as well know Squall´s fathers in the same manner they know Elle´s.
Maybe Laguna wanna to talk with Squall about his fathers.
Squall don´t look like Irvine.Irvine is a lonely ladies consuming guy which is allways afraid under pressure.Squall is a corageous hero which turns individualist and is not a ladies consuming guy.
Selphie is a corageous energic girl with leadership qualities which is not guys consumate.She don´t feels so lonely.She is more like Squall.

So I would classify the theories by this order

Julia=Ulti
Rinoa=Ulti
LRS
Ulti=Edea

Which means the upper ones are the ones who were better backed up by the storyline and lowers are the ones who were worst backed up(in my opinion).

[Christmas]

Hello.Since when did the opinions of poople determine what is really happening on a game?

No it dun but it affect this thread since this is a poll thread and the opinions of the people count and they tell you they dun believe in your theories.

[Future Esthar]

laguna and raine could be squalls parents as there is a slight hint to it when you get the ragnorock and accpet the mission from Laguna but then again it could just be that squall's parents knew Laguna and Co..

Exactly.

[Sir Bahamut]

There's more than a slight hint that Laguna and Raine are Squalls parents. In fact, it's bascially proven beyond a shadow of doubt. Here are all things that back it up:

1) Laguna = Lagoon. Raine = Rain. Squall = Brief windstorm, usually with snow or rain.

All these names are connected, they are all to do with water.

2) Raine and Laguna had a child together. That child was sent to the orphanage

The children in the orphanage at that time were as we all know, Squall, Seifer, Ellone, Quistis, Zell, Irvine and Selphie.

Ellone is the adoptive sister to that newborn child, and spends a significant part of her life trying to get Laguna back to Raine and this child.

Coincidentally, who is the one person in the orphanage who Ellone is closely attached to? Squall.

Also notice how none of the other children are paid attention to at all when it comes to this plot question, and seeing as how it is a very relevant part of the game, you'd think Square didn't just decide to drop it completely.

3) In the Ragnarok, Laguna tellls Squall that "Ellone has told me everything" and "We'll talk when this is all over".

Since Ellone had just stopped her quest to get Laguna to see his newborn child, one would expect her to tell all about the child to Laguna, and it seems rather farfetched that she refused to give him the true identity.

This would also have been basically the most important thing Ellone would tell Laguna, so it seems plausible that he is going to talk to Squall on the same issue.

4) Talk to Kiros and Ward in the Ragnarok, and Ward will say "Good thing you don't look like your father" in a joking manner,
Kiros says "you look more like your mother".

Kiros and Ward know the parents, and the father well enough to make fun of him jokingly.
Who fits into this description then?

5) The tutorial tells us that Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.

In jail, a Moomba calls Squall "Laguna" many times. This means Squalls blood was so similar to Lagunas that it fooled the Moomba.

That kind of scene isn't just put in there for randomness, nor to prove that Moombas are mentally unstable.

6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.

[Future Esthar]

Convinced.I always was a preponent of LRS.
I realized LRS myself before even see it on the internet.
I just can´t make my mind up on the Centra dinasty.
Yesterday I had different thoughts on Squall´s parents.
But now I am convinced back.

But I must say Julia=Ulti is equally plausible as I shown.

[crazybayman]

There's more than a slight hint that Laguna and Raine are Squalls parents. In fact, it's bascially proven beyond a shadow of doubt. Here are all things that back it up:

1) Laguna = Lagoon. Raine = Rain. Squall = Brief windstorm, usually with snow or rain.

All these names are connected, they are all to do with water.

2) Raine and Laguna had a child together. That child was sent to the orphanage

The children in the orphanage at that time were as we all know, Squall, Seifer, Ellone, Quistis, Zell, Irvine and Selphie.

Ellone is the adoptive sister to that newborn child, and spends a significant part of her life trying to get Laguna back to Raine and this child.

Coincidentally, who is the one person in the orphanage who Ellone is closely attached to? Squall.

Also notice how none of the other children are paid attention to at all when it comes to this plot question, and seeing as how it is a very relevant part of the game, you'd think Square didn't just decide to drop it completely.

3) In the Ragnarok, Laguna tellls Squall that "Ellone has told me everything" and "We'll talk when this is all over".

Since Ellone had just stopped her quest to get Laguna to see his newborn child, one would expect her to tell all about the child to Laguna, and it seems rather farfetched that she refused to give him the true identity.

This would also have been basically the most important thing Ellone would tell Laguna, so it seems plausible that he is going to talk to Squall on the same issue.

4) Talk to Kiros and Ward in the Ragnarok, and Ward will say "Good thing you don't look like your father" in a joking manner,
Kiros says "you look more like your mother".

Kiros and Ward know the parents, and the father well enough to make fun of him jokingly.
Who fits into this description then?

5) The tutorial tells us that Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.

In jail, a Moomba calls Squall "Laguna" many times. This means Squalls blood was so similar to Lagunas that it fooled the Moomba.

That kind of scene isn't just put in there for randomness, nor to prove that Moombas are mentally unstable.

6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.
This is your brain.


But I must say Julia=Ulti is equally plausible as I shown.
And this is your brain on drugs.

[Future Esthar]

Did you even saw my argument Crazybayman?

[Destai]

Did you even saw my argument Crazybayman?Playing the game is alot more effective than reading your arguments. Rinoa tells that her mother died when she was young. There was no indication that General Caraway attacked Julia or hurt her in anyway. The game doesnt entertain the idea so it didnt happen.

[crazybayman]

Did you even saw my argument Crazybayman?
Of course I did.

Believe it or not, I have read ALL of your posts on these topics.

I still contend that they are all ridiculous (no offense) because you've decided to dream up certain little things because you weren't told otherwise.

Such as:

Caraway killed Julia - how on earth did you dream that up? Noone said that Caraway killed Julia, but noone said he didn't, either.

Ditto for the main cast being Propagators

likewise for the rest of your points.

All your "theories" are still way off base. Say for instance I decided to make the following assumptions:

*Cid is actually Satan

*Fujin is a crack-whore

*the Mansion-owner in Winhill is really Irvine's father.

Of course there's no proof that they aren't true, but there is no reason to believe these preposterous things, because they have NOTHING to do with the storyline.

Same goes for ALL of your theories.

[Future Esthar]

The game basically says Julia is Ulti with these things we saw in the castle.
I don´t invented this theory.
This theory was based on game events.

[Destai]

The game basically says Julia is Ulti with these things we saw in the castle.
I don´t invented this theory.
This theory was based on game events.Bull.

[crazybayman]

The game basically says Julia is Ulti with these things we saw in the castle.
I don´t invented this theory.
This theory was based on game events.
Dude, that's entirely based on YOUR interpretation of the painting, the piano and the red dress. The game does not say that at all. Not through a painting, an organ, a red dress, or anything.

Everyone can have different interpretations of the painting.

Lots of people dress in red, and lots of people play an organ. Especially in the age of Ulti's castle, which obviously is going with a medieval theme, an organ would have been a typical piece of furniture musical instrument.

Plus, an organ is different from a piano. Just because Julia plays a piano and dresses in red in the Laguna scene, doesn't mean she will turn into a sorceress, dress in red and play an organ.

[Future Esthar]

Ok,it´s a question of interpretation.
But in the world of FF8 Julia is the only IMPORTANT character that dresses in red and plays a piano-like instrument.
Ulti is also an IMPORTANT character,dresses on red plays a piano-type instrument and the true color of her hair is black.I know that since she was painted on the gallery.
That´s it.
There were two ways of information on the game.Graphical considerations and script.
If they contradict each other then at least one of them must be lying.One has to decide to believe one or the other.But both sources of information are equally valid.

By the way,we never see Julia dying do we?

[Destai]

Ok,it´s a question of interpretation.
But in the world of FF8 Julia is the only IMPORTANT character that dresses in red and plays a piano-like instrument.
Ulti is also an IMPORTANT character,dresses on red plays a piano-type instrument and the true color of her hair is black.I know that since she was painted on the gallery.Julias not that important a character and theres no reason to see the lady in red in Ultimecias gallery is a portrait of Ultimecia.
There were two ways of information on the game.Graphical considerations and script.
If they contradict each other then at least one of them must be lying.One has to decide to believe one or the other.But both sources of information are equally valid.I dont know if I agree with that but again. Its never been suggested that the portrait in the art gallery is Ultimecia herself.


By the way,we never see Julia dying do we?I hope you have the decency to not consider that an argument for the theory.

[Sir Bahamut]

I hope you have the decency to not consider that an argument for the theory.

You clearly don't know Future that well.

[Future Esthar]

No,I will not use that as an argument.


Its never been suggested that the portrait in the art gallery is Ultimecia herself.

Friend I had questions to you.They were just questions.
1-Isn´t Ultimecia the queen of her Castle?
2-Didn´t she dresses in red?
3-Didn´t queens paint themselves for proud?

Answer them directly please.

[Destai]

1-Isn´t Ultimecia the queen of her Castle?yup.

2-Didn´t she dresses in red?Not in particular. There were parts of her outfit that were red but it wasnt at all similar to Julias. Rinoa and Zone both were blue. They both have black hair too. Coincidence? I think not.

3-Didn´t queens paint themselves for proud?No not particularly. Theyre famous so theres often a portrait sometime in there life time but theres no reason to see that painting as Ultimecias portrait. No reason at all.

[CaladBolgLionHeart]

I go on a trip to Orlando for 3 days, 3 DAYS, and I come back and Future Esthar's made ANOTHER wacky theory topic? *CLAPS* Ladies and Gentleman, the hardest-working person on the board.

[Future Esthar]

No not particularly. Theyre famous so theres often a portrait sometime in there life time but theres no reason to see that painting as Ultimecias portrait. No reason at all.

Don´t you think you are contradict yourself?
If she is the queen of the castle,if the paint is the paint of a queen ,if there is often a portrait sometime on their lifetime,ONLY one portrait seen in only one place of the castle we conclude it was Ulti´s portrait.We don´t even need physical similarities.

Or do you think she bought the picture of the queen of another castle for entertainment?I don´t.
You see I can even say that I proofed Ulti was Julia.
The accuracy of this theory is no little than that of LRS(and I am a proponent of it).

[Sir Bahamut]

Ugh, I know I shouldn't be doing this but anyway:

Future, even if we assume the portrait is of Ultimecia, so what? Are we to assume that any two characters who has the same colour clothes and hair are in fact the same people? Because by that logic, as Destai pointed out, that makes Rinoa = Zone.

[Destai]

No not particularly. Theyre famous so theres often a portrait sometime in there life time but theres no reason to see that painting as Ultimecias portrait. No reason at all.

Don´t you think you are contradict yourself?
If she is the queen of the castle,if the paint is the paint of a queen ,if there is often a portrait sometime on their lifetime,ONLY one portrait seen in only one place of the castle we conclude it was Ulti´s portrait.We don´t even need physical similarities.

Or do you think she bought the picture of the queen of another castle for entertainment?I don´t.
You see I can even say that I proofed Ulti was Julia.
The accuracy of this theory is no little than that of LRS(and I am a proponent of it).I havent contradicted myself. I was giving an estimate. But if you want facts fine. No I dont think a queen is obliged to have a portrait of herself in her castle. Dont need physical similarities? Ok interesting so if this picture was in place of the woman in red *attatches* would that be Ultimecia? Dont bother answering. Everyone knows the answer including you. You just dont want to admit it. Bought the picture? I cant imagine Ultimecia walking around browsing for her castles deco. Its a video game :rolleyes2 And who said it was a queen in the first place? (Again the attatched picture) Once again your ignoring logic for the sake of your theories. Its a video game and unlike your theory it has been proven that you're using detail that was not put into the game in a terrible attempt to prove your theories possible. L+R=S is much more than your theories because the game suggests them.

[Future Esthar]

Didn´t you read?
There were ONLY TWO important characters on the game that reads dress.And everything about them is similar,not just some things.
Isn´t it a coincidence that there were MANY similarities between them?

That´s a bad comparision.Rinoa is in no way similar to Zone.There were many differences.This is not the case with Julia and Ulti(portrayed by the picture).

[Destai]

Didn´t you read?
There were ONLY TWO important characters on the game that reads dress.And everything about them is similar,not just some things.
Isn´t it a coincidence that there were MANY similarities between them?

That´s a bad comparision.Rinoa is in no way similar to Zone.There were many differences.This is not the case with Julia and Ulti(portrayed by the picture).Once again you only responded to the argument you thought you could argue against. No proof that the woman in the portrait was Ultimecia. Theres no proof at all. Where does the game state that the red dressed lady is Ultimecia Future Esthar. I dont want to hear your warped logic. I want to hear where the game states it. Many similarities? LOL. Julia has a red dress and black hair. Ultimecia has a dress which has bits of red on it and white hair which you've decided was originally black. So far it seems more likely that Rinoa is Zone from the future. No proof that the woamn in the portrait was Ultimecia yet either. Im waiting.... :/

[Future Esthar]

What? Is that not a portrait of a queen?
What it is then?
A portrait of a woman in a mask feast? :p
A portrait of a woman while she stoles the crown? :p
Oh my God. :rolleyes2

You don´t even need to see the physical similarities between Ulti and the picture.

We just need to look at the Xerampelinae picture,to realize it was a picture of a queen and then think a little.

And the woman at the picture looks more like Julia than Rinoa like Zone.

I know this is a video game.That´s why I believe your evidences at LRS were as valid as mines.Being a video game also made your evidences on LRS loose accuracy.Not only mines on Julia=Ulti.

[Skyblade]

...ROFL. Esthar, where would we get our comedy without you? Julia=Ultimecia?! You think the two characters have lots in common?! Like what? Ultimecia's dress never struck me as being particularly red. Sure, it had red bits, but a red dress? No. Also, on the picture thing, how do you know that the picture isn't simply the FFVIII equivalent of the Mona Lisa? She has an entire art gallery. Are you saying that the picture for The Messenger or Judgement is her as well? Maybe she's just a collector. It certainly makes more sense. Also, do we actually see Ultimecia playing the organ? I don't remember that (although I don't deny that it's possible). Squall plays an organ in order to get a Rosetta Stone, but we never see Ulti playing one. Why not argue that Julia is Shuyin? He played an organ too.

[Destai]

What? Is that not a portrait of a queen?
What it is then?
A portrait of a woman in a mask feast? :p
A portrait of a woman while she stoles the crown? :p
Oh my God. :rolleyes2 What? No nevermind. Its as sensible as anything else you post.


You don´t even need to see the physical similarities between Ulti and the picture.Yeah because its not her :rolleyes2 YAY CLAP HANDIES


We just need to look at the Xerampelinae picture,to realize it was a picture of a queen and then think a little.What?

And the woman at the picture looks more like Julia than Rinoa like Zone.Thats lovely and that connects to Ultimecia how? Oh because the pictures in her castle? So what? Theres lots of pictures in castles. If I hang a picture of you in my house am I you? Nope. The same applies to Ultimecia and the Julia look alike portrait. Particularly when the pictures in an art gallery.

I
know this is a video game.That´s why I believe your evidences at LRS were as valid as mines.Being a video game also made your evidences on LRS loose accuracy.Not only mines on Julia=Ulti.Wow, I honestly believed you could only miss the BLARINGLY OBVIOUS so many times but unlike R=J the R+L=S theory is suggested with solid evidence. Your theory has no solid evidence. Just a perception of a picture and absaloutely no evidence to suggest a connection to Ultimecia.

[Future Esthar]

Oh my God.
You say that I don´t make sence but you are the ones that makes comparisions outside the game.I always compare people from the game with people on the same game.That´s what makes most sence.Isn´t it Skyblade(I were talking to you)?
I don´t even know who this Shuyin is.
More,I said many times I have compared IMPORTANT persons with IMPORTANT persons.
That´s the phylosophy of SQUARE here.

Destai,I see that script and events are more believable to you than graphical details.
I just wonder why is it that Square improved the graphics to made them realist and turned the blue beautiful dialog box of FF7 into the grey dialog box of FF8.

[Skyblade]

Oh my God.
You say that I don´t make sence but you are the ones that makes comparisions outside the game.I always compare people from the game with people on the same game.That´s what makes most sence.Isn´t it Skyblade(I were talking to you)?
I don´t even know who this Shuyin is.
More,I said many times I have compared IMPORTANT persons with IMPORTANT persons.
That´s the phylosophy of SQUARE here.

Destai,I see that script and events are more believable to you than graphical details.
I just wonder why is it that Square improved the graphics to made them realist and turned the blue beautiful dialog box of FF7 into the grey dialog box of FF8.

Actually, that's YOUR philosophy. The interesting idea is that, even bringing in the villain from FFX-2, my theory has just as much evidence backing it as yours does (ie: NONE).

[Destai]

Destai,I see that script and events are more believable to you than graphical details.Of course. Thats more logical. I remember you arguing that the Delling parade in disc 1 was not televised because you couldnt see any video cameras in the background despite it being stated that there were video cameras there by some character.

I just wonder why is it that Square improved the graphics to made them realist and turned the blue beautiful dialog box of FF7 into the grey dialog box of FF8.Because they could. Graphics constantly improve. So the script isnt as important as the graphics because its got a grey background? Interesting :)

Still no proof that the painting is Ultimecia. Not even anything to suggest it besides observing that art gallerys have paintings in them.

[bipper]

Ok - it has been while since I have gotten that far but let me gather what is going on here.

The thoery basically states that Ulti could be Juliea?
Evidence includes:
1: Paining of a woman in red (With square this would be good evi IMO)
2: The link is that the paining is of the queen of the castle, who would be ulti?
3: The pino of course

Evidnece Against:
1: Wasn't she killed?

Okay I am having trouble finding the evidence against - too many attepts to kill the evidnce for the theory. /shrug

Bottom line is: Yes, the lady in the painting are interpetations or possible clues - thus the word "theory" I for one do see a corralation here. Would it be too much for me to ask for a picture of the pianno and painting to be posted, just to see how obscured it is?

Also if I can add one thing: I hear that the word sorceress was used in place of the japenese word for "Witch" Which is a female wizzard in leage with the devil right?
from dictionary.com -

2: a being (usually female) imagined to have special powers derived from the devil

Well - if juliea was killed, prehapse she made a Dracula like pact with the devil and in the end became ulti? Who knows - just an idea though. But the sorceresses do share several similaraties with traditional Vampires.

Square is also trendy at this point in thier history. Playing of the gothic tones of the time prehaps?

Oh well just some thoughts. I guess I hope i remembered everything clearly. hrm.

Bipper GOES
out to buy the game for his pc :)

[Future Esthar]

So the script isnt as important as the graphics because its got a grey background? Interesting
I was exagerating a little.The first part of the phrase is what really matters.The graphics had improved.End point.
Square improved the graphics so much that the game looks like the "Where is Waldo" games or the "Find the seven differences " games.I mean the graphics not only were realistic but they help us see things in detail.This didn´t happened at FF7.
For example,on FF VII you never find an iterative journal or panflet in which the screen changes to it´s scale of vision when you press the action key.
In FF8 there is the pictures.The screen changes to the scale of vision of the pictures when you press the action key.
Now the question is:
If one just need the words to complete the mini-game why bother to show the pictures themselves?Why don´t you just see the words when you press the action key?
Because you are supposed to see hidden things on the storyline through these pictures.


Of course. Thats more logical. I remember you arguing that the Delling parade in disc 1 was not televised because you couldnt see any video cameras in the background despite it being stated that there were video cameras there by some character.

Are you talking about a woman that appears on Balamb asking you if you wanna help her taking FOTOGRAPHS of the parade? ;)

[Squall of SeeD]

Would it be too much for me to ask for a picture of the pianno and painting to be posted, just to see how obscured it is?

Here's the painting:

Linkage (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xerampalinae0ty.jpg).



Also if I can add one thing: I hear that the word sorceress was used in place of the japenese word for "Witch" Which is a female wizzard in leage with the devil right?

As far as many contemporary and Christian-derived definitions go, yes. However, the word is actually equivalent to that of "Sorceress," "Seer," "Sage," or any other such title.



Well - if juliea was killed, prehapse she made a Dracula like pact with the devil and in the end became ulti? Who knows - just an idea though.

The game not only in no way suggests this, but in the context of Final Fantasy VIII, Witches obviously have nothing whatsoever to do with the Devil. Using "Witch" in this context is like using "Clone" in the context of a genetic duplicate in Final Fantasy VII. It just doesn't work.

Witches are those with Hyne's power.



But the sorceresses do share several similaraties with traditional Vampires.

Such as?

[bipper]

WEll thanks for the picture and such. Yes, I must aggree that that pic looks nothing like juliea.



Originally Posted by bipper:
But the sorceresses do share several similaraties with traditional Vampires.



Such as?

Vampire's powers defore them as do the sorceress and they are both ugly. Out side of that I would have to think a little harder, and i dont care that much of the thought to do that lol ;)




Originally Posted by bipper:
Well - if juliea was killed, prehapse she made a Dracula like pact with the devil and in the end became ulti? Who knows - just an idea though.



The game not only in no way suggests this, but in the context of Final Fantasy VIII, Witches obviously have nothing whatsoever to do with the Devil. Using "Witch" in this context is like using "Clone" in the context of a genetic duplicate in Final Fantasy VII. It just doesn't work.


I did not really mean to insinuate that this was in the game in any way. Just the metepharical value of it. Such as Sepiroth's name to the Tree of life. It was meant to ponder more of an outside the game influence. Sorry bout that.

Thanks for the post though SoS - informative as always :)

Bipper

[crazybayman]

No,I will not use that as an argument.


Its never been suggested that the portrait in the art gallery is Ultimecia herself.

Friend I had questions to you.They were just questions.
1-Isn´t Ultimecia the queen of her Castle?
2-Didn´t she dresses in red?
3-Didn´t queens paint themselves for proud?

Answer them directly please.

I feel ridiculous going back to address these silly points, but oh well....

1 - Ultimecia is a Sorceress who lives in a castle. Did she ever, even once, call herself Queen? I don't think so (unless there's something I"m forgetting) so anyways, my answer is NO.

2 - NO. If I remember correctly, she had on a mostly black outfit, with bits of red in it.

3 - Not necessarily. Honestly, thinking along your lines for the moment, Ultimecia would probably be too crazy to have a painter come in and paint a portrait of herf. She'd probably end up killing him/her, and send them to the "Other Dimension" she talks about in the final battle, or absorb them into time, or something evil. I know that sounds silly, but not-so-much as your retarded "theories".

Even then, the chick in the red dress looks NOTHING like Julia. Its probably a painting of some past queen, or dutchess, or some lady of royalty. Its probably just some painting she stole, or like was mentioned earlier, some kind of "Mona Lisa" of her time.

Future, you're letting your silly ideas get in the way of reasoning again.

You honestly remind me of that guy played by Russel Crowe in "A Beautiful Mind"..............yes the Schizophrenic man (although I'm not saying you're schizophrenic), who thought he was deciphering secret enemy military code from Newspapers, when the whole thing was just an illusion, which was the result of his illness. This goes for ALL your theories.

[Future Esthar]

1 - Ultimecia is a Sorceress who lives in a castle. Did she ever, even once, call herself Queen? I don't think so (unless there's something I"m forgetting)

Destai don´t seem to agree with you.


2 - NO. If I remember correctly, she had on a mostly black outfit, with bits of red in it

If I remember correctly she has a full red dress
and has some blue-green type thing through her body.
It was her wings that were black.

3 - Honestly, thinking along your lines for the moment, Ultimecia would be too crazy to have a painter come in a paint a portrait of herself. She'd end up killing him/her, and send them to the "Other Dimension" she talks about in the final battle, or absorb them into time. I know that sounds silly, but not-so-much as your retarded "theory"

Helllooooooo :greenie:.
Ulti painted her before she was possessed.That was what happened.Wasn´t it implied on my words?Didn´t I already said on the forums that Ulti was possessed?This painting is another proof of that.You are the one ignoring my words.
Queens paint themselfs.Ulti is old enough to had not painted herself.
There is only ONE queen painting on the castle.This means this painting can not be a "Mona Lisa" painting.

Even then, the chick in the red dress looks NOTHING like Julia.
Can´t agree.And if you are refferring to her face let me tell you this is a picture,not a photograph.And she could be a little older or younger in the picture than when she was on Deling City.
I basically proofed Julia was Ulti.
And also that Ulti was possessed.

[crazybayman]

Helllooooooo :greenie:.
Ulti painted her before she was possessed.That was what happened.Wasn´t it implied on my words?Didn´t I already said on the forums that Ulti was possessed?This painting is another proof of that.You are the one ignoring my words.
Queens paint themselfs.Ulti is old enough to had not painted herself.
There is only ONE queen painting on the castle.This means this painting can not be a "Mona Lisa" painting.
I basically proofed Julia was Ulti.
And also that Ulti was possessed.
HELLO?!?! You don't even know if that's HER in the painting, much less if she had it painted before she becamse possessed and went crazy, of if she DID even become possessed. You have NO PROOF that it is a painting of her, and are running with your ideas, based on YOUR assumptions, not solid proof. Again, you've ignored the fact that it does NOT look anything like Julia.

SHE MAY NOT BE A QUEEN!! SHE'S A SORCERESS!!! Just because she lives in a castle, doesn't mean she's a queen, but that's beside the point.
Again, you have NO PROOF that she's even a queen.


Destai don´t seem to agree with you.

That's ok, I'm arguing with you, not Destai. Actually, EVERYONE is arguing with you (doesn't that tell you something?). Trying to instigate a debate between other forum members will not take the heat off how WRONG your stupid theories are.

I think its just your pride keeping you going now. You have been proven wrong countless times, or at least shown how your evidence is not really evidence, and just assumptions on your part, and in no way reflects how anyone else perceives the game or how Square meant it to be. Everyone knows your wrong, and I think that deep down even you know your wrong, its just that you probably have spent the last 6 years locked away in your basement or bedroom, playing FFVIII, writing your own "secret" script to the game, and don't want to let go of your cooked up ideas, because you've spent so much time dreaming this up, even though they make NO sense whatsoever.

And don't come back and say that "The game basically says that J=U", because it DOES NOT. AT ALL. You're the only one who thinks so. LIke I said before, why don't you contact Square about this? Oh yes, I remember, you replied with something like:

"OMG, I WOULDN'T DARE CONTACT SQUARE ABOUT THAT!!!" (something like that, anyway)

Why not ask square?

Because you know they'd call you a retard.

[bipper]

Wow that seemed intensley mean man. I honestly can't say that everything is bs that he has said. Yes, he does go way out there - but saying such things isn't going to help much.

I kinda like Futures takes - you can laugh or just take him too seriously. One day he just might hit that one that makes it all make sence - who knows.

I can say that Ulti was an evil queen who forced a sorceress to pass her powers onto her. Is it right - hell no. Not supported anywhere. Does that mean it could not have happened? no - infact, mabey the origional idea was to have her in this situation, but they left it out for the heck of it. Who knows.

We are even left to assume who squalls parents are. They wanted you to think on this game. IMO of course.
Have a day,
Bipper

[crazybayman]

Wow that seemed intensley mean man. I honestly can't say that everything is bs that he has said. Yes, he does go way out there - but saying such things isn't going to help much.

I kinda like Futures takes - you can laugh or just take him too seriously. One day he just might hit that one that makes it all make sence - who knows.

I can say that Ulti was an evil queen who forced a sorceress to pass her powers onto her. Is it right - hell no. Not supported anywhere. Does that mean it could not have happened? no - infact, mabey the origional idea was to have her in this situation, but they left it out for the heck of it. Who knows.

We are even left to assume who squalls parents are. They wanted you to think on this game. IMO of course.
Have a day,
Bipper

My point is that he makes assumptions (that are WAY out there, as you said), and he preaches it like its the Bible of FFVIII.

He doesn't say "Maybe its this way....." he says "IT IS THIS WAY", and I've merely said "No it isn't, you have no proof", as has everyone else in the this thread.

I'd like to figure out things that are left unsaid, about who Ultimecia actually is, but in this case, I can say that the game DOES NOT TELL US that it's Julia.


I honestly can't say that everything is bs that he has said.
Name ONE thing that he has said that isn't bs, aside form L+R=S.

Did he PM you with who "X" is? Priceless.

[Christmas]

You know...this painting question had been long discussed and I raised a few rebuttles which is still quite answered....I think it is in other thread.....

[crazybayman]

You know...this painting question had been long discussed and I raised a few rebuttles which is still quite answered....I think it is in other thread.....
Exactly. Everytime someone comes up with valid questions which he can't answer because his "theories" have more holes than a sieve, he ignores them, and goes on with something else.

Honestly FE, I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.

[Sir Bahamut]

Bipper, Futures theories in FF8 are tantamount to a historian theorising that WW2 never happened. THAT'S how far out his "theories" are.

Now, how exactly would one argue against someone who says WW2 never happened? Obviously, one would show records, war veterans, film recordings, pictures, all that. But what if this historian merely shrugs it all off and says that it's all a lie by the government? What would you do then? Would you merely say "Oh well, he's got some interesting points. It's just as valid as anyone else, and hey, maybe he'll strike gold one day!"?

No. You'd direct him to the nearest loony bin and just ignore him. Of course, simply choosing to ignore this nutcase doesn't mean you agree with him, and it certainly doesn't give his theory any more validity.

The same goes with Future. It doesn't matter that this is a game which can be interpreted many ways. There's just no escaping the fact that Futures theories are a load of plain old rubbish. And considering the countless people who have argued in length against him; trying to show him "the light", he hasn't bugded an inch. So why bother?

And quite frankly, the chances of Future hitting on a winning theory are about the same chances as Saddam Hussein winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Christmas]

In case you "forget" again, I told you anyone can have their own interpretations of portrait and this is my interpretation.

XERAMPELINAE(Red clothes)- Ultimecia's ancestor's portrait
VENUS(Love) - Love is what make the world bleed
VIGIL(Watchmen) - The guardian monsters of the castle
INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep) - The sleep magic
JUDICIUM (Judgment) - Alexandria Holy Judgement
IGNUS (Fire) - The Fire magic in the game
VIVIDARIUM (Garden) - The Garden of SeeD
INANDANTIA (Flood) - Leviathan Tidal wave attack
VIATOR (Messenger) - Diablo's dark messenger attack
INAUDAX (Cowardice) - Biggs and Wedge
XIPHIAS (Swordfish) - Gunblade
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Fisherman Horizons

Big Picture: In A Garden Sleeps A Messenger:

Diablos sleeps inside the magical lamp which is given in Balamb garden,

See? Anyone can have their own interpretations so your interpretation theory isn't valid so you can't prove Julia= Ultimecia.

[Future Esthar]

I had as many proof as that Ulti=Julia than you had to LRS
(i.e convincent ones but not 100% accurate).

If not show me wrong.
I did like to.
This is the very reason I open this thread.
And as I said earlier.Majority don´t means veracity.
I can be right and you all be wrong.That´s not important.
You don´t even backed up your theories better than I had backed mine.

You had yet to prove to me that characters dialogues were more important than graphical details in stating thruth on FF8.I am waiting.
And don´t say it happened on other FF games.Be honest enough to not use this argument.Everyone knows FF8 is different.

[UWAOOOOU]

I had as many proof as that Ulti=Julia than you had to LRS
(i.e convincent ones but not 100% accurate).

If not show me wrong.
I did like to.
This is the very reason I open this thread.
And as I said earlier.Majority don´t means veracity.
I can be right and you all be wrong.That´s not important.
You don´t even backed up your theories better than I had backed mine.

You had yet to prove to me that characters dialogues were more important than graphical details in stating thruth on FF8.I am waiting.
And don´t say it happened on other FF games.Be honest enough to not use this argument.Everyone knows FF8 is different.What are you talking about? That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong. Theres way more evidence for L+R=S (well unlikeJ=U there actually is evidence). They told you loads of times, what are you retarded?

[Christmas]

I had as many proof as that Ulti=Julia than you had to LRS
(i.e convincent ones but not 100% accurate).

From as far as I see, the portraits thingy is the only one that support it, if not mind showing them?


If not show me wrong.
I did like to.
This is the very reason I open this thread.
And as I said earlier.Majority don´t means veracity.
I can be right and you all be wrong.That´s not important.
You don´t even backed up your theories better than I had backed mine.

You just like to ignore my previous posts do you? This is a poll thread so the majority of the vote matter and the majority dun believe in your theories is what reflected from the poll. And what theories I have? The Hyne/Yu Yevon thing? I backed up it and you didn't rebuttle so like you said "to keep quiet is to agree". :D


You had yet to prove to me that characters dialogues were more important than graphical details in stating thruth on FF8.I am waiting.
And don´t say it happened on other FF games.Be honest enough to not use this argument.Everyone knows FF8 is different.

Both dialogues and graphics are important but if game scripts, game events and game dialogue dun support and your so called graphical details is still a big question mark with no screenshots and anything and pls dun talk about the Ellone and Rinoa thing cause up till now from the eyes of everyone that view it, only you said you saw Ellone in those image.

Also, a lot of questions is being repeated by others which I already asked long long time ago but you choose to ignore it or avoid it.

[Future Esthar]

I don´t ignore questions.
The majority of people don´t matter in representing the thruth.
I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

To say that I don´t proof mine and you proofed yours is just to state that graphical details were not as valid as dialogues.
But this is not proofed anywhere.Endpoint.
You just purposedly say they don´t make sense but they do.They make as sense as LRS.No one has proofed me wrong yet.
Proof to me that LRS makes more sense that Julia = Ulti and I will shut up.

It didn´t matter the quantity of evidences but the quality.


That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong.

No,they don´t.They just post alternate possibilities for the theory.
I can do the same with the LRS theory to show ít weren´t better than mine.

And Sir Bahamut that was a real bad comparison.

In WWW 2 we had script(History books) and graphical(arqueological) evidences.

On FF8 the script(Julia is dead) and the graphical evidences contradict each other.
So just one of them could be right.

And WWW2 was not a game my friend.It can be showed with scientifical evidence.But in a game you can´t do it.

[UWAOOOOU]

That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong.

No,they don´t.They just post alternate possibilities for the theory.
I can do the same with the LRS theory to show ít weren´t better than mine.

And Sir Bahamut that was a real bad comparison.

In WWW 2 we had script(History books) and graphical(arqueological) evidences.

On FF8 the script(Julia is dead) and the graphical evidences contradict each other.
So just one of them could be right.

And WWW2 was not a game my friend.It can be showed with scientifical evidence.But in a game you can´t do it.No they made it pretty clear to anyone whos played the game that your theorys retarded. Graphical contradiction? There wasnt any. The portrait wasnt similar to Julias hair or dress in shape or design. Only colour. If you think thats enough to prove the game was lieing when it says she died then you are retarded. Especially when you say graphical evidence s important, yet you only recognise her dress and hair colour over shape and design. Thats like saying all white people are the same person or something extremely stupid like that. And I still dont see why that picture is Ultimecia or Julia when it looks nothing like either and theres no reason for it to be Ultimecia when t hangs in her castle. It was in an art gallery for gods sake.

[Christmas]

I don´t ignore questions.
The majority of people don´t matter in representing the thruth.

Ya, BUT IT MATTER IN THIS THREAD SINCE THIS IS A POLL THREAD. How many time must I repeat myself? It reflect what other think of your theories.


I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

For the sake of Jenova I didn't prove anything in this thread. I didn't even vote nor did I make any statements of proving anything.


To say that I don´t proof mine and you proofed yours is just to state that graphical details were not as valid as dialogues.
But this is not proofed anywhere.Endpoint.

Then what about the another factors? The game events, scripts....blah blah and your graphical details is still didn't show any results such as screenshots.


You just purposedly say they don´t make sense but they do.They make as sense as LRS.No one has proofed me wrong yet.
Proof to me that LRS makes more sense that Julia = Ulti and I will shut up.

Like I said before, I didn't made any statements regarding LRS and whatever stuff. But if you want proof, go read the long post by Sir Bahamut while yours is basically supported by nothing.


It didn´t matter the quantity of evidences but the quality.

What good quality evidences have you came up with? I rebuttled your portrait thingy so now what prove Ulti = Julia? Your own words that is supported by your so called graphical details and "logical" explainations?

[crazybayman]

I don´t ignore questions.
The majority of people don´t matter in representing the thruth.
I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

To say that I don´t proof mine and you proofed yours is just to state that graphical details were not as valid as dialogues.
But this is not proofed anywhere.Endpoint.
You just purposedly say they don´t make sense but they do.They make as sense as LRS.No one has proofed me wrong yet.
Proof to me that LRS makes more sense that Julia = Ulti and I will shut up.

It didn´t matter the quantity of evidences but the quality.


That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong.

No,they don´t.They just post alternate possibilities for the theory.
I can do the same with the LRS theory to show ít weren´t better than mine.
Future, we showed you how your J=U theory has many holes, because its based on your (and only your) out-of-game assumptions. However the L+R=S theory has MUCH more solid proof, based on in game events, character dialogue, character actions, etc. Your theories are based on the fact that we didn't see Julia die, and your (and only your) interpretation of Ulti's castle which leaves it WIDE open to argument, what with your so-called proof no-where near as valid as LRS .

How about this: suppose it wasn't even ulti's castle originally? Maybe it once belonged to a royal family from your Centra civilization (as you spoke about before), and she killed the entire family (she is an evil sorceress, after all), and took over the castle. Then perhaps, the picture was of the FORMER queen.

I'm not saying this is my belief (because its not), but this assumption is JUST as valid as your assumptions, and it would mean that your assumptions would be completely tossed out the window.

You're just sounding sillier and sillier as you go on, especially when you ignore proof posed against you..........

[Skyblade]

I don´t ignore questions.
The majority of people don´t matter in representing the thruth.
I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

To say that I don´t proof mine and you proofed yours is just to state that graphical details were not as valid as dialogues.
But this is not proofed anywhere.Endpoint.
You just purposedly say they don´t make sense but they do.They make as sense as LRS.No one has proofed me wrong yet.
Proof to me that LRS makes more sense that Julia = Ulti and I will shut up.

It didn´t matter the quantity of evidences but the quality.


That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong.

No,they don´t.They just post alternate possibilities for the theory.
I can do the same with the LRS theory to show ít weren´t better than mine.

And Sir Bahamut that was a real bad comparison.

In WWW 2 we had script(History books) and graphical(arqueological) evidences.

On FF8 the script(Julia is dead) and the graphical evidences contradict each other.
So just one of them could be right.

And WWW2 was not a game my friend.It can be showed with scientifical evidence.But in a game you can´t do it.

Ok, this is starting to piss me off now. FE, if you want to feed us your cracked off theories, fine. But learn to spell! You haven't proven a damned thing. You have shown in this thread that you do ignore questions (and I bet you're going to go further by ignoring this and saying that I am just lying or that I don't understand). What's more, a single picture that looks nothing like either of the two characters that you claim it to be is nowhere near the amount of evidence supporting the LRS theory. Ulti's dress isn't red. We don't see her actually playing the organ (an arguement I note you dropped since my last mention of it), so that similarity is gone. And there isn't a damned thing in the game that gives even the slightest indication that J=U. And, while it may be hard to get this through your thick skull, when 1,000 people who have seen just as much evidence as you have argue with you, that should clue you in to something. Now, if you have seen a video for an FFVIII sequel or something that the rest of us haven't, then you could argue that your crackpot theories are correct and that we are all wrong (even then, you would have to prove that it wasn't some new twist thought up by Square, rather than part of the first game). But going purely off of what the game has showed us, you don't know any more than any of the rest of us, and from your posts, I'd say you know less. I've been accused of looking too deeply into games (http://69.42.87.218/cgi-bin/ezlclk.fcgi?id=8960) before (there's a thread dedicated to one of my theories in the FFTA forum), but this is total bull$#!+. "It doesn't matter if it doesn't look exactly like her because it is a portrait, not a photograph"?! So I suppose that it doesn't matter that it doesn't look a thing like either character, does it? I've already given an explanation (which you just ignored, choosing instead to focus on the least plausible of my theories; one that was in there in an attempt to demonstrate your own stupidity to you) as to why Ulti would have that painting in her castle. Unlike your ridiculous theory, mine also explains why she has all the other pictures, even though none of them are pictures of her (another thing about my post that you IGNORED, despite your reassurance that you don't ignore things). So please, stop and think before you post again. Oh, and don't forget to learn to spell.

EDIT: The graphical evidence and the script don't contradict each other, since nothing in your graphical evidence suggests that the picture is either Julia or Ulti. What was the name of the painting? "Red Clothes". Not "Ruler of the Castle".

[Sakia]

to tell you people at the end of the game when you see the past Squall run past the future Squall, Martontalks to squall then Ultimecia apears and edea say dont worry she just needs to pass her powers to some before she dissapers. So Ultimecia could of got her powers from another sorcerer. The game says nothing about her being Julia!!

[Sakia]

sorry for the misspelling I was typing way to fast.

[Skyblade]

to tell you people at the end of the game when you see the past Squall run past the future Squall, Martontalks to squall then Ultimecia apears and edea say dont worry she just needs to pass her powers to some before she dissapers. So Ultimecia could of got her powers from another sorcerer. The game says nothing about her being Julia!!

Julia wasn't (as far as we know, despite Future Esthar's insane theories) a sorceress anyway, so where Ulti got her powers doesn't mean anything.

(Of course, this post being the one which is easiest to rebuke, who wants to bet that it is the one that Future Esthar will choose to talk about next time he posts in here?)

[Future Esthar]

Am I ignoring your posts?
You also ignores mines.

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Unless you think it is Julia´s twin sister this led to the conclusion that she is Julia.


6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.

So Headmaster Cid was Seifer´s fathers,no?
And Ellone is also Laguna´s daughter,no?

5) The tutorial tells us that Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.

In jail, a Moomba calls Squall "Laguna" many times. This means Squalls blood was so similar to Lagunas that it fooled the Moomba.

That kind of scene isn't just put in there for randomness, nor to prove that Moombas are mentally unstable.

Well, I can had met Arnold Schwartznegger at the past and being a great fan of him.
And then I could be a doctor making DNA test.
If you consult-me to know the results and I just say "Schwartznegger"
did this mean you are his sun?
What about if I was thinking on him when I give you the results and yelled that word out of joy?It can happen,specially considering animals tend to be very expressive.
And scenes like the picture on Ulti´s castle weren´t put there for randomness also.

4) Talk to Kiros and Ward in the Ragnarok, and Ward will say "Good thing you don't look like your father" in a joking manner,
Kiros says "you look more like your mother".

Kiros and Ward know the parents, and the father well enough to make fun of him jokingly.
Who fits into this description then?

As someone said on the forums they can already know Squall´s fathers and talk about them to Squall.There are so many persons on the world of FF8.

3) In the Ragnarok, Laguna tellls Squall that "Ellone has told me everything" and "We'll talk when this is all over".

Since Ellone had just stopped her quest to get Laguna to see his newborn child, one would expect her to tell all about the child to Laguna, and it seems rather farfetched that she refused to give him the true identity.

This would also have been basically the most important thing Ellone would tell Laguna, so it seems plausible that he is going to talk to Squall on the same issue.

Everything about you being the ones that were sent to their heads.
Maybe Laguna will tell him who were his parents.But it doesn´t mean it was him and Raine.


1) Laguna = Lagoon. Raine = Rain. Squall = Brief windstorm, usually with snow or rain.

All these names are connected, they are all to do with water.

So I know what´s the name of Raine´s child.It is FLOODINGLAKE.

Really,if my fathers name was Firaté and my mother Firagá should my name be Fireman?

Really,this doesn´t mean nothing.


2) Raine and Laguna had a child together. That child was sent to the orphanage

The children in the orphanage at that time were as we all know, Squall, Seifer, Ellone, Quistis, Zell, Irvine and Selphie.

Ellone is the adoptive sister to that newborn child, and spends a significant part of her life trying to get Laguna back to Raine and this child.

Coincidentally, who is the one person in the orphanage who Ellone is closely attached to? Squall.

Also notice how none of the other children are paid attention to at all when it comes to this plot question, and seeing as how it is a very relevant part of the game, you'd think Square didn't just decide to drop it completely.

This one is a difficult to rebuttle.
First,there were many children at the orphanage.
Second,she brought the children to the orphanage.But can´t she just start to have a special relation to a children other than the one she brought from the orphanage?Is it impossible at all?
What about if this children was developed by Square just to justify Ellone sending our heros counscience to the past so that Laguna would come to know this child?

[crazybayman]

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Future, you're really beginning to sound like a Moron. Let it go man, it looks NOTHING like Julia.

[UWAOOOOU]

Am I ignoring your posts?
You also ignores mines.

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Unless you think it is Julia´s twin sister this led to the conclusion that she is Julia.

[QUOTE]6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.[QUOTE]

So Headmaster Cid was Seifer´s fathers,no?
And Ellone is also Laguna´s daughter,no?
(to be edited)


-You're being an idiot. He even said it wasnt a good point but it would make sense that he'd have it with all the added evidence for the theory. And Julia looks nothing like the woman in the portrait.

[Skyblade]

Am I ignoring your posts?
You also ignores mines.

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Unless you think it is Julia´s twin sister this led to the conclusion that she is Julia.


6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.

So Headmaster Cid was Seifer´s fathers,no?
And Ellone is also Laguna´s daughter,no?

5) The tutorial tells us that Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.

In jail, a Moomba calls Squall "Laguna" many times. This means Squalls blood was so similar to Lagunas that it fooled the Moomba.

That kind of scene isn't just put in there for randomness, nor to prove that Moombas are mentally unstable.

Well, I can had met Arnold Schwartznegger at the past and being a great fan of him.
And then I could be a doctor making DNA test.
If you consult-me to know the results and I just say "Schwartznegger"
did this mean you are his sun?
What about if I was thinking on him when I give you the results and yelled that word out of joy?It can happen,specially considering animals tend to be very expressive.
And scenes like the picture on Ulti´s castle weren´t put there for randomness also.
(to be edited)

Actually, yes, you are. There is still no attempt at you to rebuke any of the points I have made in any of my posts, save for your single failing attempt to claim that the woman in the picture looks exactly like Julia, which is laughable, at best.

Also, while I do not doubt that you might shout "Schwartzenegar" at random times, thus far Moomba's have shown themselves to be far more intelligent than you.

No, scenes like the picture weren't put there randomly. They were put there for the puzzle, dumb@$$. What is the special meaning of the other 11 pictures then? If the pictures were put there for some special purpose, then what is the meaning of the other ones?

Trying answering some of my arguements, before you make an even bigger idiot of yourself (something I would normally think was immpossible, but which I have no doubt you are capable of).

[crazybayman]

There are so many persons on the world of FF8.
(to be edited)
Exactly. So, given that there are many people on the world of FF8, how many women have black hair, and wear a red dress, other than Ulti? More than 1 (Julia), you can rest assured, especially over the course of history.

You have just given reasoning to the fact that the lady in the painting is MOST likely not Julia.

In fact, it looks NOTHING like Julia, meaning that it, in fact IS NOT Julia.

Thank you come again.

[ThePheonix]

-If Julia = Ultimicia, and Ultimicia was using the Junction Machine Ellone (which she was) to go into the past to control people, she would have known Laguna, and Rinoa, and others who she would have been able to use them in her search for Ellone, but she didn’t seem to know anyone other than sorceresses, most likely because of some sort of bond between them due to her inheriting their powers in the distant future when she exists.

-Same goes for Edea and Rinoa being Ultimicia, as well, Rinoa knew where Ellone was at some point of the game (ex. Blamb Garden). Edea also knew where Ellone was throughout the game.

-On top of that, both Edea and Rinoa meet Ellone, but obviously, same cannot be said for Ultimicia, as she never goes into Ellone’s body.

[Future Esthar]

Post 112 was tottaly edited.
There is nothing in the game which suggests that a sorceress
can send her consciousness to the mind of a sorceress she don´t knows but whose power she can inherit.

Let´s forget the Julia=Ulti thing for a while and just concentrate on LRS for now.
I will come back with Julia=Ulti later.

[Skyblade]

Post 112 was tottaly edited.
There is nothing in the game which suggests that a sorceress
can send her consciousness to the mind of a sorceress she don´t knows but whose power she can inherit.

Let´s forget the Julia=Ulti thing for a while and just concentrate on LRS for now.
I will come back with Julia=Ulti later.

Yep, you edited it. You also continued to ignore my posts. That's fine with me, since it is pretty much admitting that you have nothing with which you can refute my points, but I had hoped that you would be a little less of a sore loser. Still, since you say to forget the Julia=Ulti thing, I will oblige you and I won't bug you about it anymore.

BTW, I agree on that last bit. Nothing suggests that sorceresses can send their conciousnesses back at all. That ability is unique to Ellone (and the machine that Dr. Odine built based off of her).

[Khaotic]

Squall = Laguna
Selphie = Quistis
Irvine = Cid at an older age


Basically the point I'm trying to make is, your theories make no sense, and the fact that you start yet another thread about this is beyond me.

[Future Esthar]

Don´t make stupid comparisons Khaotic.
The Julia=Ulti is as valid as LRS as I had showed up on post 112.

[UWAOOOOU]

Don´t make stupid comparisons Khaotic.
The Julia=Ulti is as valid as LRS as I had showed up on post 112.People have already proved you wrong and Ive already reminded you. You just ignored that post and logic several times. You;re being really petty to try to prove your theories all of which are false.

[Future Esthar]

You are the ones ignoring my questions on LRS.
I proved you wrong with the same kind of logic you proved me wrong.
Please consider answering to post 112.

[Abraxas]

Stop wondering Future Esthar!

I AM ULTIMECIA !!!!!

I possessed Abraksas and now I'll go to your home at night and pull your feet while you're sleepink!
That is what you deserve by all your wasted fingerwork!!!!!!!!
Be prepared!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Khaotic]

Oh, ok so my theories are now stupid just becaue I think they're right and you dont care to believe me, hmph. You see my point, once again is, you look at my theories as stupid, as do we to yours.

[Abraxas]

FUTURE ESTHAR... I'm approaching your home as we speak....
HA HA HA...
Now the earth (and this forum) will be free of you!!!
And you'll be my slave for ever!!!!!!
I'm wondering what your tasks will be... maybe convincing the world that Michael Jackson, Boy George and me are the same person...
MU HA HA HA HAHAAA!!!!

[UWAOOOOU]

Am I ignoring your posts?
You also ignores mines.

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Unless you think it is Julia´s twin sister this led to the conclusion that she is Julia.


6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.

So Headmaster Cid was Seifer´s fathers,no?
And Ellone is also Laguna´s daughter,no?

5) The tutorial tells us that Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.

In jail, a Moomba calls Squall "Laguna" many times. This means Squalls blood was so similar to Lagunas that it fooled the Moomba.

That kind of scene isn't just put in there for randomness, nor to prove that Moombas are mentally unstable.

Well, I can had met Arnold Schwartznegger at the past and being a great fan of him.
And then I could be a doctor making DNA test.
If you consult-me to know the results and I just say "Schwartznegger"
did this mean you are his sun?
What about if I was thinking on him when I give you the results and yelled that word out of joy?It can happen,specially considering animals tend to be very expressive.
And scenes like the picture on Ulti´s castle weren´t put there for randomness also.

4) Talk to Kiros and Ward in the Ragnarok, and Ward will say "Good thing you don't look like your father" in a joking manner,
Kiros says "you look more like your mother".

Kiros and Ward know the parents, and the father well enough to make fun of him jokingly.
Who fits into this description then?

As someone said on the forums they can already know Squall´s fathers and talk about them to Squall.There are so many persons on the world of FF8.

3) In the Ragnarok, Laguna tellls Squall that "Ellone has told me everything" and "We'll talk when this is all over".

Since Ellone had just stopped her quest to get Laguna to see his newborn child, one would expect her to tell all about the child to Laguna, and it seems rather farfetched that she refused to give him the true identity.

This would also have been basically the most important thing Ellone would tell Laguna, so it seems plausible that he is going to talk to Squall on the same issue.

Everything about you being the ones that were sent to their heads.
Maybe Laguna will tell him who were his parents.But it doesn´t mean it was him and Raine.


1) Laguna = Lagoon. Raine = Rain. Squall = Brief windstorm, usually with snow or rain.

All these names are connected, they are all to do with water.

So I know what´s the name of Raine´s child.It is FLOODINGLAKE.

Really,if my fathers name was Firaté and my mother Firagá should my name be Fireman?

Really,this doesn´t mean nothing.


2) Raine and Laguna had a child together. That child was sent to the orphanage

The children in the orphanage at that time were as we all know, Squall, Seifer, Ellone, Quistis, Zell, Irvine and Selphie.

Ellone is the adoptive sister to that newborn child, and spends a significant part of her life trying to get Laguna back to Raine and this child.

Coincidentally, who is the one person in the orphanage who Ellone is closely attached to? Squall.

Also notice how none of the other children are paid attention to at all when it comes to this plot question, and seeing as how it is a very relevant part of the game, you'd think Square didn't just decide to drop it completely.

This one is a difficult to rebuttle.
First,there were many children at the orphanage.
Second,she brought the children to the orphanage.But can´t she just start to have a special relation to a children other than the one she brought from the orphanage?Is it impossible at all?
What about if this children was developed by Square just to justify Ellone sending our heros counscience to the past so that Laguna would come to know this child?Esthar, its obvious to everyone but you that Square clearly went out of there way to make it as BLATANTLY OBVIOUS as possible that theyre Squalls parents without making it fact. Besides some of your arguments are really genuinely stupid. Like moombas just happenning to yell Laguna when theyre happy :rolleyes2 That evidence is proof enough that hes Lagunas son and the only woman Laguna is known to have had a child with in the game is Raine hence by logical default theyre his parents. Besides that piece of fact proving the theory to be superior than your badly put together fanfiction most of the things you argued against were references for the more intelligent (or not seriously....slow)players of FFVIII. Its not your fault really...

It was made clear to you that the card thing was a reference and admitted not to be a good argument but you ignored that to try and make it look stupid to try and put your half assed theorys in a better light.

About the Kiros and Ward thing, In a video game as you've continually failed to understand is that if the game doesnt suggest it then its not true. Your argument oncve again falls short. Plus Squall even does look like Raine and even has a bit of her bad mood.

With what Laguna says to Squall, He says that to Squall in particular, not the whole team. What would Ellone tell Laguna concerning Squall in particular, Ellone being the one who knows the child and more than anyone else, the mysteries surroung it. Blatantly obvious without stating it.

The name reference was obvious to "just about" anyone a reference and wasnt intended as proof as far as I can see.

The last piece, Ellone was popular enough at the orphanage but the only child who the game made her out to be close to was Squall who looked to her as a sister more than anyone else at the orphanage. Considering the game never suggested she was overly close to any other child and she knew who her much loved step parents child was then yeah its pretty blatant Squall is the child.

Also to add to Ellone trying to get Squall back to Laguna Ellone always put Squall in Lagunas body in the dream world. Add all that together you not only get a blood test confirming hes Lagunas son but you get something close to a 100% explanation.

[sparkie]

Ok I said I wouldn't... but I need to. :p



I basically proofed Julia was Ulti.
And also that Ulti was possessed.
You can't "basically" prove something. :rolleyes2


Let's consider that it IS a portrait of Ultimecia. Your J=U theory is so weak in itself that there is no point in assuming the portrait is Julia! This makes your graphical "proof" obsolete. Like I said before, why don't you prove one theory before moving on to the next?


And quite frankly, the chances of Future hitting on a winning theory are about the same chances as Saddam Hussein winning the Nobel Peace Prize.
Good comparison. :)


I had as many proof as that Ulti=Julia than you had to LRS
(i.e convincent ones but not 100% accurate).
Um, no you didn't. If you had looked at LRS, you would see it had more than just 3 things to back it up. And they weren't based purely on assumptions and interpretations.


If not show me wrong.
I did like to.
This is the very reason I open this thread.
And as I said earlier.Majority don´t means veracity.
I can be right and you all be wrong.That´s not important.
Wow you are really self-centered to be that much in denial. Why do you even make polls if you don't care what anyone else thinks? All you want to do is argue that everyone else is wrong and that you are the lone genius who has debunked the mystery of the game.


You don´t even backed up your theories better than I had backed mine.
IF YOU WOULD READ THE FREAKIN POSTS YOU WOULD SEE THAT YOUR THEORY HAS BEEN DISPROVEN ALREADY.


You had yet to prove to me that characters dialogues were more important than graphical details in stating thruth on FF8.I am waiting.
Ok I'll humor you:
Graphics are much more discrete, making it a lot easier to mistake things. In a dialogue, you KNOW what is being said, word for word. Proof:

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Well? How do you explain how you are the only one who thinks it looks like her when no one else does? And even if it DID look like her, it would still prove nothing because many characters look alike in games and no one knows where the painting came from, how old it is or why it's there. What are the chances that it is Julia from all the red clothed, black-haired, orgain owning people that lived from her time period to Ultimecia's? Slim to NONE.


And don´t say it happened on other FF games.Be honest enough to not use this argument.Everyone knows FF8 is different.
Yeah, we do. Which is why YOU shouldn't use other games/movies/etc. to back up your theories (ex: FFVII, Tomb Raider, Matrix). :rolleyes2


The Hyne/Yu Yevon thing? I backed up it and you didn't rebuttle so like you said "to keep quiet is to agree". :D
I guess he agrees with a lot of things we've said then, huh? :D



I proved you wrong with the same kind of logic you proved me wrong.
Dude, you proved yourself wrong with your own logic way too many times to count.

Proving theories isn't about believing what is least possible, but what is MOST likely. Your logic is warped, Future. You don't know what you're saying. Even if someone in the game had said, "Squall is Laguna's son" you would just say that person was lying. You KNOW you would. Even though there is proof, right in front of you. You just refuse to believe facts and go with whatever you want to believe. Everyone can see that. And why the heck are you disputing LRS when you YOURSELF said that it was proven and that you were convinced???

I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.
No one asked you to rebuttle it in the first place. But yet again, you did choose to ignore like 20 posts before you that questioned your own theory. Surprise surprise.


And why is he now saying he wants to "forget about J=U for now"? Because there is too much overwhelming evidence stacked against him! Maybe he is starting to crack (in the good sense :D).

[Christmas]

Didn't I said picture interpretation can't be valid? I said it ages ago and you told me to prove LRS theory but why must I?

I didn't said Laguna and Raine are Squall's parents but I do agree Hyne is Yu Yevon in disguise and Narrator insist he is not gay. :D


In case you "forget" again, I told you anyone can have their own interpretations of portrait and this is my interpretation.

XERAMPELINAE(Red clothes)- Ultimecia's ancestor's portrait
VENUS(Love) - Love is what make the world bleed
VIGIL(Watchmen) - The guardian monsters of the castle
INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep) - The sleep magic
JUDICIUM (Judgment) - Alexandria Holy Judgement
IGNUS (Fire) - The Fire magic in the game
VIVIDARIUM (Garden) - The Garden of SeeD
INANDANTIA (Flood) - Leviathan Tidal wave attack
VIATOR (Messenger) - Diablo's dark messenger attack
INAUDAX (Cowardice) - Biggs and Wedge
XIPHIAS (Swordfish) - Gunblade
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Fisherman Horizons

Big Picture: In A Garden Sleeps A Messenger:

Diablos sleeps inside the magical lamp which is given in Balamb garden,

See? Anyone can have their own interpretations so your interpretation theory isn't valid so you can't prove Julia= Ultimecia.

[Abraxas]

Come on! Why to bother to reply Future Esthar arguments?
It's like trying to convince a baby that pooping is awful.
For me is obvious that he just want to laugh at you and take all your brains to the limit...

I tried to post this now I'm free, but who knows if Ultimecia possess me again soon! How scary!

[liamo]

did you know that final fantasy VIII is really final fantasy III's world a few hundred years later

[Future Esthar]

did you know that final fantasy VIII is really final fantasy III's world a few hundred years later.

Don´t get surprised if they call you stupid or say that you need to go to a therapist.
They think only their theories were right and other persons were more stupid than them.
What a bunch of arrogants.They never make a theory prooved.


IF YOU WOULD READ THE FREAKIN POSTS YOU WOULD SEE THAT YOUR THEORY HAS BEEN DISPROVEN ALREADY.

I read then and found no ones that disprove it.
To say I can´t proof it is not to disprove it.
Maybe you can post them here and I will see what were the ones that disprove?

"Ulti could be a sorceress taking over the castle of a queen"
This is not suggested by the game.Nor it suggest the opposite.Words back,I would say it sugest because of the graphical details.
The first one is suggested by nothing.
Not even the game script says Ulti is not the queen of her castle.
"It´s an art gallery"
Queens make portraits of themselves.
That portrait is nowhere on the castle.
So that portrait must be of the queen of this castle.
It don´t matters if it is an art gallery or not.
If the queen created an art gallery is just because she don´t wanna her picture lie on the walls of the castle.She wanna to have fame and put it on an art gallery to be purposedly seen,who knows.
"The picture looks nothing like Julia"
Tell me then the differences you see.
Look,Julia don´t appears on FMV´s and her face was not so detailed as the character ones.
And obviouly the dress she uses on Deling City were not the ones she dress on the picture.It´s just that she likes to dress red.

And yes,LRS is based on assumptions because there is no dialogue on the game saying Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

Ellone sends Squall to Laguna´s head because they were both in leadership positions.By the way,many times you can change the conexions.That´s another possibility.

And yes,the Moomba could had known Laguna and yell´s "Laguna" to Squall.I know many birds that just do this(sorry,don´t know the English name).

[bipper]

I have been listening Future, and i think the lot is interesting enough.

Bipper

[crazybayman]

Don´t get surprised if they call you stupid or say that you need to go to a therapist.
They think only their theories were right and other persons were more stupid than them.
What a bunch of arrogants.They never make a theory prooved.
Now now, no need to act like a child.

Personally Esthar, I haven't proved a theory, because I haven't made a theory. Do you know why that is? Because I have better things to do. And so should you. These theories are just making you look like a fool.

So that portrait must be of the queen of this castle.
It don´t matters if it is an art gallery or not.
If the queen created an art gallery is just because she don´t wanna her picture lie on the walls of the castle.She wanna to have fame and put it on an art gallery to be purposedly seen,who knows.
(to be edited)
Hello...........Just because there's a picture of a woman, in a red dress with dark hair in Ultimecia's castle doesn't mean that its a picture of her. It could be, but we can't be certain of that. It could be an ancestor of hers, or just someone entirely different. There is NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER THAT THIS IS ULTI, OR JULIA FOR THAT MATTER.

Btw, it isn't mentioned once in the game that she is a queen. She's a sorceress, who lives in a castle. If she was a Queen, she there would be a good chance that she rules over people as a political figure. However there is no notion of that. No one says she is a queen, except you, which again is another assumption you've pulled out of your a$$.


And obviouly the dress she uses on Deling City were not the ones she dress on the picture.It´s just that she likes to dress red.
This is no indication that J=U. How many women in the FFVIII world, over the ages dress in red? More than you or I can count. I say over the ages because who knows what year this painting is from, its not necessarily from Ulti's era.


And yes,LRS is based on assumptions because there is no dialogue on the game saying Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.
Then what does Kiros mean when he says "Good thing you don't look like your father. You look more like your mother." Obviously to joke about that, they would have to know them well, and of course he knoew Laguna very well.

Laguna and Raine had a child in Winhill. Laguna left to search for Ellone, and Raine died and the child wound up in an orphanage with Ellone.

Now, what child at the orphanage was close to Ellone, and was from Winhill? Squall. Is this coincidence? No. Especially because he is the ONLY character to fit these descriptions.


Ellone sends Squall to Laguna´s head because they were both in leadership positions.By the way,many times you can change the conexions.That´s another possibility.

I suppose this is possible, but HIGHLY UNLIKELY. For that matter, why not send Squall to General Caraway's, or Cid's body? They were both leaders. Squall is sent to Laguna's body, because Ellone wants to reunite father and son, and let the son see why his father was gone.


And yes,the Moomba could had known Laguna and yell´s "Laguna" to Squall.I know many birds that just do this(sorry,don´t know the English name).

What relevance would this have to the game, if this were the case? NONE. He thinks its Laguna because he licks his blood, and senses Laguna because they are of the same genetics.

Your arguments here must be some of your worst yet.

[Jessweeee♪]

all of them are false except for laguna and raine being squall's parents

Here: Laguna and Raine are married at some point (it shows laguna's memory of this at the ending) 17 years ago laguna goes off to esthar while raine dies giving birth to their son (note that squall is 17) laguna stays in esthar as president probably unaware that raine had been pregnant.

On the ragnarok laguna says "i've got a lot to say to you" or something like that, Kiros says "you look alot like your mother" and ward says (kiros translates) "good thing you don't look like your father" obviously a joke.
so...it makes perfect sense and i guess that would make ellone his foster sister.

[sparkie]

Don´t get surprised if they call you stupid or say that you need to go to a therapist.
They think only their theories were right and other persons were more stupid than them.
What a bunch of arrogants.They never make a theory prooved.
1. I never said you were stupid.
2. I never made any theories because I believe the game wasn't meant to be as complicated as you make it.
3. We're arrogants because we never proved a theory?? FTW??? You're the arrogant one, just listen to yourself. You think all your theories are the truth! You don't even express them as opinions but as facts. Like when you said Julia was murdered. You ignore evidence we've shown, you choose to believe the game characters are liars and you twist every plothole to your liking. Yes, Future, we are the arrogant ones. :rolleyes2

And what's up with telling me not to offend you when you just offended everyone on the forum?


And yes,LRS is based on assumptions because there is no dialogue on the game saying Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.
Even if they did, you would say they are lying. And you're missing the whole point. There is overwhelming evidence for that theory as opposed to yours which has almost none + there is no logical reason for it to be true. And btw, you didn't answer any arguements I presented in my last post.

The evidence for LRS are stated above (and many times before). You better not ignore it this time since you asked for the evidence yourself and be sure to argue every point if you think it's not true.

[crazybayman]

And for f#ck sakes, read post #134. Just because its not at the bottom, doesn't mean you don't read it.

[Future Esthar]

He says that to Squall in particular, not the whole team

This didn´t change nothing of what I had been saying.


Plus Squall even does look like Raine and even has a bit of her bad mood.

And the picture looks like Julia but there must be many persons in the world which would red dress and play piano,isn´t it?But Squall had to be Raine´s sun just because he looks like her?There were also many persons on FF8 that had Squall´s mood other than Raine.
If we found two persons with the same mood does this mean they were mother and sun?
This would be as stupid as to say that all bad mood persons belongs to the same family line(direct line).
So you can´t apply this logic to my theories without you apply to yours.
That´s not fair.


What would Ellone tell Laguna concerning Squall in particular, Ellone being the one who knows the child and more than anyone else, the mysteries surroung it.

She would tell they were the ones on Laguna´s Kyro´s and Ward´s mind.
That was what he told us she telled him.


The last piece, Ellone was popular enough at the orphanage but the only child who the game made her out to be close to was Squall who looked to her as a sister more than anyone else at the orphanage. Considering the game never suggested she was overly close to any other child and she knew who her much loved step parents child was then yeah its pretty blatant Squall is the child.

That was an orphanage,for God´s sake.They were all at the care of Matron.
The kid don´t need Ellone anymore.That kid could be Irvine,Zell or Seifer(since we know it´s a boy).
And for Seifer I am sure she would be reliefed to finally take him to the orphanage.He is a problematic child,Ah,Ah,Ah,Ah.Ah. :D

[crazybayman]

And for f#ck sakes, read post #134. Just because its not at the bottom, doesn't mean you don't read it.

[sparkie]

And for f#ck sakes, read post #134. Just because its not at the bottom, doesn't mean you don't read it.

Let's just all keep posting this.

[Future Esthar]

I had answered your questions Sparkie.


Then what does Kiros mean when he says "Good thing you don't look like your father. You look more like your mother." Obviously to joke about that, they would have to know them well, and of course he knoew Laguna very well.

Laguna is a journalist and Kyros and Ward are with him on his adventures.How many persons would they met?

[crazybayman]

I had answered your questions Sparkie.


Then what does Kiros mean when he says "Good thing you don't look like your father. You look more like your mother." Obviously to joke about that, they would have to know them well, and of course he knoew Laguna very well.

Laguna is a journalist and Kyros and Ward are with him on his adventures.How many persons would they met?
So you're saying that Squall's father is some arbitrary dude that no one knows, that even though there are blatant hints that point towards Laguna?

Plus, Raine's last name is Leonhart, and didn't Raine and Laguna have feelings for each other? Plus everything else I stated?

[sparkie]

I had answered your questions Sparkie.

NO you f***ing didn't! Go read post 128 and 134 carefully. Then devote a whole hour to answer them. Each. Then reread them. Twice. Then post.


Then what does Kiros mean when he says "Good thing you don't look like your father. You look more like your mother." Obviously to joke about that, they would have to know them well, and of course he knoew Laguna very well.


Laguna is a journalist and Kyros and Ward are with him on his adventures.How many persons would they met?

Yeah we know all the random things that could happen in the characters' lives. But what the f*** would the point of that be???


Sorry peeps, I'm getting ticked...

[crazybayman]

Sorry peeps, I'm getting ticked...
Heh, we all are.

I think I'm gonna go home after work, FORGET all the crap FE says, and play FFVIII for a bit before I go out. And follow the storyline, as indicated by Square.

Ahhh.....no retarded theories :p

[sparkie]

Sorry peeps, I'm getting ticked...
Heh, we all are.

I think I'm gonna go home after work, FORGET all the crap FE says, and play FFVIII for a bit before I go out. And follow the storyline, as indicated by Square.

Ahhh.....no retarded theories :p

It's crazy how simple life can be, eh? :D

[UWAOOOOU]

He says that to Squall in particular, not the whole team

This didn´t change nothing of what I had been saying.Yeah it does, It suggests it was a personal affair that didnt involve the mission.



Plus Squall even does look like Raine and even has a bit of her bad mood.

And the picture looks like Julia but there must be many persons in the world which would red dress and play piano,isn´t it?But Squall had to be Raine´s sun just because he looks like her?There were also many persons on FF8 that had Squall´s mood other than Raine.
If we found two persons with the same mood does this mean they were mother and sun?
This would be as stupid as to say that all bad mood persons belongs to the same family line(direct line).
So you can´t apply this logic to my theories without you apply to yours.
That´s not fair.You constantly miss the point. It suggests it and adds to the large stack of evidence while if I formulated a theory on them being mother and son just because they look and act similar Id be as stupid as you.



What would Ellone tell Laguna concerning Squall in particular, Ellone being the one who knows the child and more than anyone else, the mysteries surroung it.

She would tell they were the ones on Laguna´s Kyro´s and Ward´s mind.
That was what he told us she telled him. I dont understand what you're saying.


The last piece, Ellone was popular enough at the orphanage but the only child who the game made her out to be close to was Squall who looked to her as a sister more than anyone else at the orphanage. Considering the game never suggested she was overly close to any other child and she knew who her much loved step parents child was then yeah its pretty blatant Squall is the child.

That was an orphanage,for God´s sake.They were all at the care of Matron.
The kid don´t need Ellone anymore.That kid could be Irvine,Zell or Seifer(since we know it´s a boy).
And for Seifer I am sure she would be reliefed to finally take him to the orphanage.He is a problematic child,Ah,Ah,Ah,Ah.Ah. :D What? Nope dont understand what you're point is here either. And lets keep in mind you havent found an argument for the Moomba identifying Squall as Lagunas son so its still proven that Laguna and Squall are father and son.

[Jessweeee♪]

Geez...I'm finally starting to understand all of these Future Esthar jokes.


GET IT THROUGH YOUR PEA-BRAINED HEAD! Raine's grave said Raine Leonheart. Squall's last name is Leonheart. Therefore, Squall is Raine's son. AND unless Raine was cheating on Laguna. Also the moomba identifies Squall as Laguna probably cos they look alike. It couldn't have know he was inside Laguna's head could he?
Even more proof:


Here: Laguna and Raine are married at some point (it shows laguna's memory of this at the ending) 17 years ago laguna goes off to esthar while raine dies giving birth to their son (note that squall is 17) laguna stays in esthar as president probably unaware that raine had been pregnant.

On the ragnarok laguna says "i've got a lot to say to you" or something like that, Kiros says "you look alot like your mother" and ward says (kiros translates) "good thing you don't look like your father" obviously a joke.

WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED?
Everyone paste this into their sig: "Stop FE from making random 'theories!!" or something like that...it needs to stop.

Also:
Originally Posted by crazybayman:

And for f#ck sakes, read post #134. Just because its not at the bottom, doesn't mean you don't read it.

And you know, some people just like the color red. I like the color red. Does that make ME ultimecia?

Geez...I never do that.

[assemblage]

i've been reading over these the last few days, and i must say, FE, you're twisting the truth waaaaay too much. here, a quote for you.

Raine's grave said Raine Leonheart.
oh, well lookie there! :eek: oh, now, what was Squall's last name again...?

Squall's last name is Leonheart.
oh, right, right, there we go.

and here, a tidbit about the painting in Ultimecia's Castle - are people suddenly not allowed to put pictures up in their house when the picture isn't them? she's also got the picture of the watchman up. Vigil, it was called. is she also the watchman? um, no, and she's not necessarily the woman in the red dress either.

oh, but wait, there's more! it's obvious you haven't finished the game. as someone already said, in the ending, we see Laguna putting a ring on Raine's ring finger. yes, needless to say but FE made it so that it does indeed NEED to be said, he put it on her left hand. she looks at it, gets all happy, etc etc etc. now i think if she had refused to marry him, she would not have acted the way she did.

and one last bit of repeated knowledge. the moomba licked Squall's blood and said "Laguna". aka, their DNA was nearly identical. i bet Square thought about you when they were questioning if they should have some scene flashing back where the same moomba licked some of Raine's blood, yknow, to undo this confusion you seem to have so much of. then the moomba would've said "Raine" as well as "Laguna". of course, since Squall's blood is half Raine's and half Laguna's, if i remember Biology class correctly, the moomba would've been debating in it's mind whether to call him Raine or Laguna. which may have caused the poor thing to implode. and nobody wants an imploded moomba.

thus ends my rambling. whew.

[Christmas]

I wonder how many time I posted this....Look Future, those portraits thingy can't use to back up your Julia = Ultimecia theories cause any moogles or tonberries can have their own interpretations.


In case you "forget" again, I told you anyone can have their own interpretations of portrait and this is my interpretation.

XERAMPELINAE(Red clothes)- Ultimecia's ancestor's portrait
VENUS(Love) - Love is what make the world bleed
VIGIL(Watchmen) - The guardian monsters of the castle
INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep) - The sleep magic
JUDICIUM (Judgment) - Alexandria Holy Judgement
IGNUS (Fire) - The Fire magic in the game
VIVIDARIUM (Garden) - The Garden of SeeD
INANDANTIA (Flood) - Leviathan Tidal wave attack
VIATOR (Messenger) - Diablo's dark messenger attack
INAUDAX (Cowardice) - Biggs and Wedge
XIPHIAS (Swordfish) - Gunblade
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Fisherman Horizons

Big Picture: In A Garden Sleeps A Messenger:

Diablos sleeps inside the magical lamp which is given in Balamb garden,

See? Anyone can have their own interpretations so your interpretation theory isn't valid so you can't prove Julia= Ultimecia.

And also there is no point proving the LRS theory to him. Because he once said this:


I realized LRS myself before even see it on the internet.
I just can´t make my mind up on the Centra dinasty.
Yesterday I had different thoughts on Squall´s parents.
But now I am convinced back.

I also said this:


Are you trying to say this can be apply to your theory of Ulti = Edea & Ulit = Julia and all those fancy stuff since ppl dun believe that Ulti live many generations ahead of their time like told by the game?

In summary, you are trying to tell people they are contradicting with themselves since they can accept R=U but not U=E=J which also said that they themselves also dun believe in the game script by doing this?

Nice try, dude but correct me if I am wrong.

Then:


Unknowns,you are right about what I am trying to do here.
If you acept R=U knowing it contradict the game script I can also do that.I am also allowed to do that.I am not the only one.

So in general, he is just using everyone to prove his theories cause he will said the same logic applies to his theories after you proven the LRS theory.

[ThePheonix]

Let me EXPLAIN to you, Future Esthar, what everyone (including myself) has been telling you:

About J=U:

-The organ in the castle does not proof anything, and does not even mean that the owner of the castle is capable of playing it, and Julia played a piano, not an organ… it is just something to create a mood in the castle. On the other hand, if it were a piano in a room similar to the tiny bar in the Galbadia hotel, you would have hade a decent piece of proof.

-The organ might as well have been Omega’s, who was much closer to it, and as far as we know, may even have played it (to seal the Rosetta stone, for example)

-We only saw Julia once, and she was in a red dress. This may be a coincidence, it may be her performing dress, or something of the sort… there is no hard evidence that she even likes the color red (she may have had a number of other reasons for wearing it).

-As you said, we don’t get a good picture of her face, so we don’t really know what she looks like… so the only similarities that we can know for sure are the color of dress and hair.

-Any more I forgot?


LRS:

-Moombas recognize people through their blood, and after testing Squall’s, they say “Laguna! Laguna!” indicating their recognition of Laguna’s genes, and on top of that (since you don’t seem to be convinced, and think that they are just saying it for fun) other moombas say “Head… confuse! Rruuunn! Rruuunn!” (or something of the sort) showing that they taste other parts to the blood as well, and can’t make up their mind whether or not he is Laguna.

-When Kiros and Ward say that he looks like his mother, and that “it’s a good thing you don’t look like your father”, obviously in a joking manner, it shows that they knew the father very well. As well, we know that Squall was at the orphanage, meaning his mother and father were either both dead, or one of them went off to a distant country and became its president, did not know about the child, and stayed there. If Kiros and Ward knew the father well enough to make such jokes about him, they would not do so if he was dead, and chances are, that they would not even want to talk about him. This piece of evidence points directly towards Laguna.

-Laguna does tell squall that he wants to talk to him, and it quite clearly is not about him being in Laguna’s body, because he already told the whole group that Ellone told him about what she did and said that they thought that they were some sort of fairies.

-Kiros says that Squall looks like his mother, and since we get a good look at both Squall and Raine in good graphics and see that they look similar, we are hereby drawn to believe that Raine is truly Squall’s mother. Notice how this assumption is not made only due to graphical similarities, but by a combination of actual in-game dialogue (Kiros saying that Squall looks like his mother), and the graphical similarities between Raine and Squall (notice that here we have the cinematic graphics to go by, not just assumptions of how someone looks)

-Remember: THIS IS A GAME, so there must have been a reason for Raine, Laguna, and Squall’s names to be all derived from occurrences involving water… there is a reason for it, because must have some sort of significance, or it wouldn’t be here (another example is the moomba)

-Laguna having Squall’s card is actually a strong piece of evidence, as they may as well have given it to Cid with Seifer’s card. Think about it… Rinoa’s father has her card, Edea has her own card, Ellone has Laguna’s card (Ellone is related to Laguna by adoption), Ma Dicht has Zell’s card, etc… (Does not apply to the queen of cards quest cards, which are given to some random people around the world) This suggests that Laguna is in some way related to Squall. (Remember, the whole LRS theory is not based on this fact, it is only a small portion of the supporting evidence)

The rest seems quite self-explanatory, and requires no extra additions.

[Future Esthar]

Exactly,Unknowns.It´s bad you were the only one realizing that.
Yes,I reach the end of the game and it says Raine Loire.
Also,if she married Laguna it makes sense she changed her last name.
You seem to hadn´t played FF8 as you said Leonhart.
It´s funny that there were at least three members saying this.
And no one appears to correct them and to say it was Loire at the end.
If people just don´t correct them to make me go away then people are being unfair.People should correct them.I conclude then that all of you saw Leonheart at the end.
God,I remember many months ago people saying that Squall knows Ulti was there because the door was opened.I was convinced people was right until I played the game again and saw that the door was closed.
It seems I am not the one who needs to go to a therapist.I can be stupid but at least I am a good observer unlike you.I know the game better than you after all.But you acted as it was the opposite.Unless the U.S.A version is different from the European one.
You had faith on LRS and I had faith on LRS and Julia=Ulti.
Really,this will not go anywhere.The pages would go to infinitum if we keep discussing each theory.It doesn´t matter which one is more likely because we can´t proof none.
This is like saying 1000 persons like yellow and 1 person like blue and start discussing this.

WE SHOULD LET THIS THREAD DIE

[Sir Bahamut]

WE SHOULD LET THIS THREAD DIE

Most sensible thing you ever said. Let's all let Future have the last word, and let the topic/s die, as they should have done ages ago.

[assemblage]

WE SHOULD LET THIS THREAD DIE
thank you, i'm not even gonna bother questioning anything, but first, i would like to say that you were right about the whole Raine gravestone thing. i haven't seen the ending in a while, and we only saw the gravestone for like 3 seconds, but i downloaded the ending, and indeed it says "Raine Loire". my apoligies. for not....checking my sources....in a forum. :sweatdrop

[Future Esthar]

Apologies accepted.And sorry for the offense.