Pls Spare A Minute To Read This. [Archive] - Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums

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Random_Lurker

07-24-2005, 11:03 AM

I noticed people just posted in Future's theories threads without knowing just what is going on and post straight ahead which result in constant conflicts and doubts because they didn't read the whole thread.

So I will made a brief summary of his theories to avoid any unneccassary arguements.

But not neccassary 100% accurate.......

An unknown villian named "X" controlled the FF VIII cast and make them ruled over Galbadia from Timber.

"X" is the responsible for every Lunar Cry.The Lunar cry is needed for Time Compression to succeed

"X" is defined by Unknowns as Hyne/Yu Yevon
Future didn't make any reveal regarding "X" so we take it as "X" is Hyne then.

Rinoa, a girl with special power sent the consious of the people to the past and let them see some unpleasants events or stuff regarding Hyne.

Our heros were a dynasty of kings ruling Centra.(........)

Laguna´s name was Vascaroon.Vascaroon,Kyros and Ward were guardians of the Centra castle at Ulti´s time.

Vascaroon fell in love for Ulti which is still Edea by that time?.

Rinoa try to find Squall at the flower field because she fell in love with him.

Hyne is afraid so he used time compression to warp every characters of different time and age to the very same time with the very same age which is the world of FF VIII also called "Well Organized Time Compression" (WOTC) by Future Esthar.

The characters don't know that they have been warped from their time each given a specific role in life arranged by Hyne and they are actually propagators in human forms.

*Propagators is those monsters that you fought when you first step*
aboard Ragnarok.

The family line of the characters goes like this:

Edea + Seifer = Rinoa
Rinoa + Squall = Quistis
Quistis + Zell = Selphie

And Selphie will marry Irvine in the future.

*Pls note that the family tree will change anytime as Future haven't*
seem to make up his mind yet....

Rinoa is adopted by Caraway and his wife Julia.
Caraway then murdered his wife Julia and send Rinoa to Winhill.
Julia survived which was captured by Deling which turned her to Edea.
Edea who is possessed by Hyne, Edea time travelled to the past and married Cid where they set up the orphanage together.

*It is told by Future that both Deling & Caraway are actually*
monsters possessed by Hyne.

Rinoa is adopted by a family in Winhill which is later killed by Esthar soldiers.
Her name is changed to Ellone and this point of time.
Ellone met Laguna and Raine.

Ellone is later send to the orphanage and Edea took care of her.
Ellone met Squall in the orphanage where they fell in love.
Edea then send Ellone to the White SeeD ship when Caraway recaptured her.
Edea masterminded everything.

Caraway used the Junction Machine Ellone he obtained from Odine and clone a fake Ellone and send her back to the White SeeD ship.

Ellone is then once again called Rinoa after Caraway locked her in a room to prevent her from using her power.

Watts and Zone which is said by Future as Ward and Laguna in disguise rescued her.

The flow from here is basically the same as the main storyline until...

Edea try to scan Squall and CO's memories in the desert prision to possess them but failed.

Edea stopped everyone from sleeping in Balamb when she took over so as to stop Ellone/Rinoa from sending the consious of the people to the past so that they won't know what happened in the orphanage.

Hyne who masterminded everything is out for a hunt for Ellone so as to seal her power.

*This part I dun really understand, is Hyne hunting for Rinoa/Ellone or*
the machine Ellone?

When Squall & Co defeated Adel, they were time travelled to the past using the Lunatic Pandora which the Galbadians masterminded.

They found Ultimecia's castle in the past which is Edea's house after being transformed.

Ultimecia is actually Edea.

Squall started to remember that he been here before when he reached the master room.

*I think the theory pretty much ended here....*

This is basically the summary of the whole theory. Feel free to correct or add on anything if you feel something isn't right.

But please don't ask me why is this and why is that. I don't know. Go post in Future's threads to ask these questions.

I posted this to help resolve conflicts and settle arguements.

PS: I won't dare to say I understand all this and I do realize there are some contradicting here and there but I guess Future Esthar will fix it.

To Future: I can't judge whether it is right or wrong but I must say I have respect for your preservance and determination to contiune upholding what you believe is actually the truth behind FF VIII. But try not to use the word "truth" unless Square recognize it.

To Unknowns: I really like the way you quote an example through your hilarious and yet logical stories which you express your opinions and comments through it. Your consistency and persistent to rebuttle Future's theory point by point really win my admiration unlike others.... Also you have been following up with Future's theories from the very begining so I reckon you should understand it better than anyone else. So feel free to correct anything that is to Future too. :)
Oh, BTW, I really like your stories and please don't stop writing.

To Squall of SeeD:Your post on "what is actually a theory" really enlighten me a lot, thank you.

Lastly as I said before don't bother flaming me as my name suggested.

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 11:59 AM

Christmas

07-24-2005, 12:36 PM

You don't have to be all humble and say things like "I can't judge whether this is truth or not". We all know this is as far from the truth as humanly possible, so let's not beat around the bushes here. You don't even need to make huge posts trying to rebuttal him point by point, because the wildly illogical nature of his thoughts are as plain as day.

The fact of the matter is that Futures theories aren't theories, they're nonsense. That's all. Uknown does have great patience, but she's not going to get anywhere, because Future is always altering his "theories" anyway.

Can't everyone simply leave Future alone? Just let him say what he wants, and perhaps this place can go back to a more normal state, instead of a forum where every other topic is filled with crap about R=U+A-->L<S-I etc. etc. etc. You know, maybe get back to discussions whioch actually have a trace of intelligence in them?

Well, as the poster said:

I posted this to help resolve conflicts and settle arguements.

So I think starting another arguement here defeat the purpose.

I must said it is pretty complete summary with an exceptions of a few more points which I will try to recall and add in if there are.....

Also I am impressed that someone DID read every single of Future's theories except myself and my deepest gratitude from enjoying my story. :)

I certainly hope this will stop some unnecessary conflicts since we can get a brief understanding of what is going on here. Nice work.

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 12:38 PM

The only conflict going on here is the fact that Future refuses to back down from his "theories", and it's unlikely that he ever will, so what's the point?

Christmas

07-24-2005, 12:41 PM

He still have the right to post since this is a forum and if it is really absurd,the thread will be closed at once like the last one called "the debate of..." I can't really remember....

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 12:56 PM

Of course has the right to post, that's not what I'm talking about. The point I'm trying to make is that Future is obviously not budging to common sense and logic. The exact same thing happened in the past, and he didn't budge then either. So far, no amount of arguments has made him budge now either, so everything points towards him not giving up EVER.

If he's not going to give up, and we can all recognise the illogical nature of his "theories", then there's no point in arguing with him. It won't do any good; in fact, it will only do bad. Continous arguing with him just causes this place to flood over with pointless ramblings, and it incites Future to keep making new threads.

Anyway, there's an overwhelming chance that he's nothing but a troll wanting attention, and by giving it to him, we'll never quell him.

Christmas

07-24-2005, 01:38 PM

Running away from a plague won't doesn't mean the plague isn't there. You need to stop this plague. If you avoid this plague, sooner or later the plague will spread to where you are and eventually you will have to face it.

So far the moderators has been able to control and stop any flooding done by Future. They just closed one thread of Future since the thread is just a duplicate of other.

The attention he is getting now are all "negatives" attention and I dun think even a troll enjoy such attention.

PS: And maybe we should stop any arguements on this threads....you know, I just said it myself on my earlier posts that the poster intended this thread for reference and not an arguement nor debate........

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 02:21 PM

Well, I still stand by what I said, and I hope others will agree. But I won't force anyone. By all means, if you fell you must argue with Future, go ahead...

sparkie

07-24-2005, 02:39 PM

Christmas

07-24-2005, 03:44 PM

Second, who out there can figure out what the heck is going on in Future's theories? They're constantly changing. I did read the whole thread so I hope you're not referring to me since I just popped up there. And I'm not trying to argue, but can you blame people for being confused? Look at the sheer amount of information! It's like keeping track of a whole different story. In fact, it is a whole different story!

That is why this summary thread is for since no one can figure it out and start hurling insults in his theory threads.

That's nice of you but I doubt it'll resolve any conflict until Future Esthar can see the light. You know, reality. The only thing I admire about him is his imagination. I would never be able to come up with all that and wish I could in some way but I would have the sense to call it fiction at least.

At least we were reduce the unneccassary flame/insult/questions posts in the threads and we can direct people somewhere if they don't understand.

Well that's no fun.

Why must everything that is related to Future Esthar will end up in an arguement even though this thread just summarize his theories for everyone reference and nothing related to whether his theories is right or wrong?

(I know in some aspects others might have condenmed Future but just try to be fair....)

I highly doubt the threads would reach 10 pages of posts if people just ignored them. I forgot why I responded...hmm.

Even though if the threads reaches 1000 pages, all you have to do is dun read it and problem is solved.
Whether how long the threads are, it is the accumulation of efforts put in to stop this "plague".
If we all kept slience like little school girls, we will be admiting that his theory is true which is definitely as far as I concern is far from it since we didn't attempt to rebuttle it.

Well, I still stand by what I said, and I hope others will agree. But I won't force anyone. By all means, if you fell you must argue with Future, go ahead...

Maybe others will agree with you or from what I see now, no one agree with me but it is the perservance to stop this plague and the effort put in that counts.

People like this Random_Lurker dude which his name suggest that he is just like a lurker which there is a lot hanging around here.

They know what is going on and when they see such absurd theories and no one in the forum bother or dare to rebuttle such atrocious stuff, what will think of this forum and its members?

Maybe it is a bit off topic that I said all those and I apologize if I offended anyone.

Anyway, I won't be on this forums a week or so later so maybe when I dissappeared, the "plague" will just go away?

bipper

07-24-2005, 04:49 PM

Two things - My personal Guess on the X person was cid /shrug

And yes things did get preatty heated on the threads and I too appologies for being a hot head at points - Especcially to you Autumn Rain. The actuall "side" I wanted to take was the posters here. Although i still belive that any half baked theory brings merit, i just hate to see them shot down with out reason.

Unkowns, Ukows, and UKnows ;) I never meant to insult you eaither - and i did appriceate most your posts. I really did not try to hurl any insult towards you - though i know i did toss a few. It's my late night surf, and patience and logic are often short handed at my 2 am.

Thanks for the thread - it was much needed ;) ;)

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 05:01 PM

Unknown, do you really think it is necessary to type up massive posts just to show that his theories are ridiculous? I mean, come on, did you read the summary? I still can't get over the fact that he brought up Propagators as somehow being part of everything!

It's not accepting his theories if we don't bother responding, it's simply ignoring him because he makes no sense. It's like me saying that 2+2=5, and then everyone starting to try and show how I'm wrong. No one needs to explain that if you have two bananas, then someone gives you two more, then you have 4 bananas. Anyone with a sane mind can see I'm wrong and just being stupid.

It's the same thing here. You don't need to type up huge post after huge post trying to decipher what Future is saying and highlighting contradictions, because anyone who takes him seriously is probably as impossible to argue with as Future himself, and quite frankly, I think you're underestimating peoples intelligence if you really believe you have to point out where Futures theories fail.

Of course, if he comes up with a theory which is within the grounds of reason, then of course one should point out flaws, or whatever. But nothing he has said so far HAS been within the grounds of reason.

But as I said, I won't stop you if you really enjoy it...

Future Esthar

07-24-2005, 05:10 PM

Well done Random Lurker.
I must say that you organized it better than I would even do.
Just some points:

Edea + Seifer = Rinoa
Rinoa + Squall = Quistis
Quistis + Zell = Selphie

And Selphie will marry Irvine in the future.

*Pls note that the family tree will change anytime as Future haven't*
seem to make up his mind yet.....

Yep,I can´t made up my mind.But I know for sure that they were a dinasty who ruled Centra before WOTC.That´s what really matters.

Her name is changed to Ellone and this point of time.

This is irrelevant but I think she was named Ellone since she borns and
her name was changed to Rinoa when she is recaptured.
And Julia is Rinoa´s mother.

Watts and Zone which is said by Future as Ward and Laguna in disguise rescued her.

I never said this.It was implied by Unknowns that I said.

Hyne who masterminded everything is out for a hunt for Ellone so as to seal her power.

*This part I dun really understand, is Hyne hunting for Rinoa/Ellone or*
the machine Ellone?

At the third disc?Is the machine Ellone.She was programed to jump from the boat even knowing the white seed don´t wanna to get onboard.
By the way,she is resistent to the life in the boat because she is a robot.The true Ellone is energic and would not feel well living on a boat 11 years.She hates closed environments and can not be at the same place much time.(Don´t you remember her at winhill and at Caraways house?).

By the way,you forgot to tell some things that happened before WOTC
as:
1-Our heros were a dinasty of kings ruling Centra.
2-Laguna´s name was Vascaroon.Vascaroon,Kyros and Ward were guardians of the Centra castle at Ulti´s time.
3-Vascaroon fell in love for Ulti.
Rinoa try to find Squall at the flower field because she fell in love with him.
Please if you had time edit your post with this information (and correct the others ) Random-Lurker.

bipper

07-24-2005, 05:34 PM

I don't think anyone of us can really say exactly what the game authors are saying. Unless we take SquallfromSeeDs advice and go to his house and get arrested... I tripple dog dare you...

Seriously though, in hynesight (haha?) with the taboo ffVII example I do see a resemblance of possibly "hidden themes/stories/lessons" among the final Fantasy Titles. I personally enjoy looking at the story twice and seeing what little hints of a story may be in there. The story I see, is the same you see - But the experience I take, will always be different than the one you take. Thus the point of threads-to discuss.

I think Unknowns is just doing that (discussing) with a severly opositional view.(applause) Which is great. It's when i see a post that gets shot down by a unrelated retort that gets me going.

Sir Bahamut - I see exactly what you are saying about being within the grounds of reason, thats what all the rebuttling is doing. I have had to read his threads multple times to get the real idea of what was going on. I am not sure if his theories are entirely baseless. I do belive some of his graphical evidence and some minor parts that could make sence. (the four soceresses - not sure on eye genetics though :) ) (that is imo and my opinions are not baseless in my happy little world)

To me it seems as though Future is not presenting his Idea's 100%. He often holds back and the thread looses focus (Like x person). Sometimes i find it all makes more sence after heavy drinking. After all anyone can write but its a whole nother challenge to get your point across. I just wish to see a post titled... What is going on in my head (Complete Director's cut) by Future Esthar :) I personlly do give the guy credit as he is studying the game and making theories (which seems to get missunderstood for fact by some). But when things don't match, it is the responsability of others to bring him to scope, and not blast him. Anyone can look at one scene and make a theory out of it easily. Doing so may mean forgetting other details in the story, but when your diggin, all you see is dirt. Get it? So when your focused on somthing, that is what you see (thus the word focus), and sometimes it take a reminder. - although a stick of dynamite can make things interesting...

All I would like to see is people able to discuss them on the boards with out getting blasted.

Thanks all,
Bipper
Rambling drunkard

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 05:53 PM

But the thing is that people have been trying to "bring him to scope" ever since he first started posting theories like a year ago(or longer ago than that maybe), and he has shown absolutely no sign of coming to sanity.

Now, sure, he might come up with something which makes sense within the framework of his "theories", but that doesn't make his theories any more likely. As for him studying the game, no amount of studying the game can lead to the conclusions we see in this summary, period. It'd be like me studying history and concluding that World War II never happened.

Let's put it this way, if Futures theories are to be even considered, then I'd propose that Squall is, in fact, a toonberry. This toonberry, furthermore, was controlling everything all along. He used Ultimecia to compress time so he could reshape time into a timeline where he has a more athletic body. In game basis? Squall uses a gunblade, and Tonberries use knives, which are pretty similar to gunblades when you think about it. As for why everything in the game points against it? Simple: everything we are told in the game is a lie.

And there you are. A theory as valid as Futures, and it took me about ten seconds to cook it up.

bipper

07-24-2005, 06:03 PM

Wow - its just so deep!

Heh kk I only know what I have read, since I am relativley new. I do like some of his thoeries and others seem off the deep end.

I wanna say that (IMO) there was definatley a propigator, someone getting all the others together - as i have said before - it seems like a bad sitcom other wise.
***** OMG! Both of us grew up in the same orpahanage! YAY, Lets go destroy our memories by Junctioning GF's and whomp all evil together!*** -_- That why i like the sorceress theory- it clicks better :) to each thier own. I also like the R = U theory as it seems to make some sorrta sence.

And like a combo of Unkowns posts and Mine, you can't stop him from posting, and you really shouldn't bash it needlessly - the best you can do is not click the link...

It is just fun to read either way you look at it.

Bipper

boys from the dwarf

07-24-2005, 06:12 PM

the title said take a minute to read this but this is gonna take me an hour :whoa: ."faints" :x_x:

bipper

07-24-2005, 06:17 PM

LMAO!! ITs worth the read - trust me. I am a dwarf

Future Esthar

07-24-2005, 06:23 PM

Time Compression doesn´t change the shape of a person´s body.
Time Compression is not the "Matrix"
Time Compression is compressing all eras in one era.
So your theory is not as valid as mine.It´s worst and don´t take even the definition of Time Compression as thruth.
To perform Time Compression will not change the destiny of the characters.
It will just compress the eras.
To change their destiny X needs to perform the Lunar Cry many times so that the time compressed world looks like a normal world.
Also,X needs to possess Shumi´s and made them evolve to normal persons through which he/she will change the shape of cities.And the destiny of our characters.Of course they will born in the same conditions as before WOTC.But then Ulti will change their destiny(she made this using many tricks).

By the way our heros were Propagators.This confuses you because we see the both species at the same time in different places.
But Squall and Rinoa found the Propagators at the RAGNAROK at WOTC(not outside of it) which explains everything.

Bipper,you said Cid was good.But X is bad,not good.

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 07:22 PM

I wanna say that (IMO) there was definatley a propigator, someone getting all the others together

No no, you don't get it. Future is referring to the Propagator monster we fight on the Ragnarok.

So your theory is not as valid as mine.It´s worst and don´t take even the definition of Time Compression as thruth.

Are you talking to me? What does TC have to do with my theory? Oh wait, am I trying to use logic against Future? Guess I shouldn't bother asking... :rolleyes2

Future Esthar

07-24-2005, 10:07 PM

The answer lies at the beggining of my post Sir Bahamut.
A Tonberry can´t become Squall through Time Compression.TC is not a transformation magic.
And I said Time Compression don´t change destiny.It is X which changes it inside WOTC.

By the way the proverb says "Those who keep quiet agree"
Don´t know if this proverb exists in USA.

This proverb means you shouldn´t ignore my posts.
To ignore them is basically to say you agree with them.
You don´t agree but it´s like you are saying so.

AH,AND POST 13 WAS EDITED DEFINATELY

bipper

07-24-2005, 10:14 PM

Aye, I never ment the propigator monster - but the puppet master basically - cid basically get the group to do what he wants. Dunno if it is planned or not. The communications tower, and the basic use of GF's.
/shrug was just a thought. I really should of picked a better word - but i guess it was in the head :)

Bipper

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 10:51 PM

A Tonberry can´t become Squall through Time Compression.TC is not a transformation magic.

Who said Squall become one due to TC? I never said that. I merely said that Squall IS a Tonberry, not that he became one. Before hacking on my theory, make sure you read it first.

And I said Time Compression don´t change destiny.It is X which changes it inside WOTC.

Destiny has nothing to do with my theory. All I'm saying is that Squall is a Tonberry who controlled everything from behind the scenes. HArd to understand?

This proverb means you shouldn´t ignore my posts.
To ignore them is basically to say you agree with them.

Future, future, future. Do you really have a bad memory problem or something? Because I have NOT ignored your posts until after quite a while of feverish arguing. I used to go at your theories much in the same manner that Unknown now does, until I realised that it's pointless.
I gave you chance after chance at proving yourself as having some sense of logic, but you never took the chance. So here we are...

Anyway, that proverb doesn't work in this context. Are you saying that everyone who doesn't express their disbelief of your theories in your topics automatically believe them? It's not that simple I'm afraid.

But quite frankly, I don't know why I'm even bothering to write this post. It's not like you'll listen this time either. :rolleyes2

Future Esthar

07-24-2005, 11:19 PM

He used Ultimecia to compress time so he could reshape time into a timeline where he has a more athletic body.
I didn´t read bad.
Are you saying Squall has a Tonberry form on the present but a human form on the past or future?
By the way,I already said that X don´t reshape time through Time Compression.
You are the one who don´t listen.
He change destiny inside TC.
But I think I already understood what you have been saying.You are right.
But I believe it´s more likely that Squall was a Propagator before WOTC than a tomberry.

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 11:25 PM

Hm, looks like I phrased my theory somewhat poorly. What I was trying to say was that when time is fully compressed, Ultimecia would absorb all of time and space, and would be able to create a new universe at her whim. The Tonberry that is Squall would be controlling Ultimecia so she'd create a new universe and time which gives the Tonberry a better body.

By the way,I already said that X don´t reshape time through Time Compression.
You are the one who don´t listen.
He change destiny inside TC.

No no no, you've got it all wrong, X doesn't just change destinies. He completely reshapes time. And X, is of course the Tonberry that is Squall.

But I think I already understood what you have been saying.You are right.
But I believe it´s more likely that Squall was a Propagator before WOTC than a tomberry.

....I rest my case XD

Future Esthar

07-24-2005, 11:31 PM

What XD means?

bipper

07-24-2005, 11:43 PM

Its an emote face - >< are like angry frustrated eyes and XD is another way of drawing them to indicate a nah nah face - (teasing) :tongue: <<that is the closest i think

Bipper

Sir Bahamut

07-24-2005, 11:46 PM

No, it's meant to indicate laughter.

bipper

07-24-2005, 11:49 PM

I have only seen it used as mocking - kinda got its start from cartmans >< face -

But hey, emotes are like fin art.. you just never know... sometimes :confused:
Bipper

sparkie

07-25-2005, 08:02 AM

At least we were reduce the unneccassary flame/insult/questions posts in the threads and we can direct people somewhere if they don't understand.
Ok... I still think his theory is baseless and ridiculous. *shrug*

Why must everything that is related to Future Esthar will end up in an arguement even though this thread just summarize his theories for everyone reference and nothing related to whether his theories is right or wrong?

(I know in some aspects others might have condenmed Future but just try to be fair....)
Um... like I said, I'm not here to argue. I was under the impression that my post was light-hearted. And you're the one arguing here, no? And try to be fair? Are you kidding? I'll just let that one go. Not in the mood.

Even though if the threads reaches 1000 pages, all you have to do is dun read it and problem is solved.
Whether how long the threads are, it is the accumulation of efforts put in to stop this "plague".
If we all kept slience like little school girls, we will be admiting that his theory is true which is definitely as far as I concern is far from it since we didn't attempt to rebuttle it.
What school do you go to?? :lol: And if it makes you happy to debate with him, be my guest. I'll just read and laugh. But that doesn't mean I am accepting the theories as truth. That's bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. It's already been explained by Sir Bahamut what a hopeless task it is to rebuttle. And I'm confused... didn't you just say the problem is solved if you don't read it?

They know what is going on and when they see such absurd theories and no one in the forum bother or dare to rebuttle such atrocious stuff, what will think of this forum and its members?
That they're smart for not wasting their time? Like you said, they know what is going on.
Unknowns: "Protect the children!!!!" XD

I just had a scary thought... What if there were lots of Future Esthars? And they started debating with each other? And they mixed theories and came up with new ones? And then mated and had baby Future Esthars who then grew up and took over the world??? :eek:

Are you saying Squall has a Tonberry form on the present but a human form on the past or future?
By the way,I already said that X don´t reshape time through Time Compression.
You are the one who don´t listen.
He change destiny inside TC.
But I think I already understood what you have been saying.You are right.
But I believe it´s more likely that Squall was a Propagator before WOTC than a tomberry.
I can't believe he is taking this seriously. Let's all step back and look at what we're analyzing here... Squall is a Tonberry? I know it's for example purposes but... Why do you have to provoke him Sir Bahamut? XD

By the way the proverb says "Those who keep quiet agree"
Don´t know if this proverb exists in USA.
No but I'm assuming you're from somewhere in the Middle East? They tend to use a lot of proverbs. Not meant as an insult, just interesting. But no, I don't agree with that. Ever hear that silence is golden? :D

rubah

07-25-2005, 08:15 AM

The very reason that you seem to believe what Future Esthar said makes me not want to even start reading this thread xDDDD

Future Esthar

07-25-2005, 10:14 AM

When you don´t debate with me and keeps saying they don´t make sense you are telling an "a priori" statement which you didn´t back up.

So if you don´t wanna to debate don´t even make a post saying they don´t make sense at first.Because every subjective opinion on the forum must be backed up.

This is enough to explain why you should debate with me.

Sir Bahamut

07-25-2005, 10:33 AM

I can't believe he is taking this seriously. Let's all step back and look at what we're analyzing here... Squall is a Tonberry? I know it's for example purposes but... Why do you have to provoke him Sir Bahamut? XD

Yeah, sorry, got a bit carried away. I'll stop now.

Future Esthar

07-25-2005, 11:24 AM

The very reason that you seem to believe what Future Esthar said makes me not want to even start reading this thread xDDDD

He don´t believes nothing.He just puts a resume of my theories.It was well done since it helps people to understand them better and see them as a whole.

Christmas

07-25-2005, 12:55 PM

Um... like I said, I'm not here to argue. I was under the impression that my post was light-hearted.

And you were the one that said it will be no fun if you dun argue....

What school do you go to?? :lol: And if it makes you happy to debate with him, be my guest. I'll just read and laugh. But that doesn't mean I am accepting the theories as truth. That's bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. It's already been explained by Sir Bahamut what a hopeless task it is to rebuttle. And I'm confused... didn't you just say the problem is solved if you don't read it?

It doesn't matter which school I go to and whether you hated me and laughed at my attempts and feel free to read my stories for a laugh :D , I would said I doing my best to show some light to Future and not admitting that his theory is facts.

The problem here now is his thread reaches 10 pages as you said before and if you are annoyed by the fact that it reach 10 pages, you can simply just dun read it.

That they're smart for not wasting their time? Like you said, they know what is going on.
Unknowns: "Protect the children!!!!" XD

Like I stated after my statement, I apologize for any offence caused and if that is not enough, I apologize once more.

I just had a scary thought... What if there were lots of Future Esthars? And they started debating with each other? And they mixed theories and came up with new ones? And then mated and had baby Future Esthars who then grew up and took over the world??? :eek:

If you see me as another Future Esthar, then I will said I feel very wronged but I can't change how you see me as now or before.

To Sir Bahamut: If the theories or the number of pages in the threads annoyed you, like I said, you can dun read it or get the moderator to close it and if you hated me for making the threads so long, I apologize.

To Bipper: Whatever it is thanks and will you happen to be this "Random_Lurker"? No offense though.

Once again I apologize for any misunderstandings or offence caused.

sparkie

07-25-2005, 02:04 PM

And you were the one that said it will be no fun if you dun argue....
I was kidding. That's why I put him ---> :D at the end. :D

The school thing was also a joke (because girls are loud at my school), I was not laughing at you. I meant I will read Future's theories for a laugh because they're pretty funny if you think about it. I did laugh at your stories though, they were the best part of the entire thread!! And no it doesn't annoy me that it reaches 10 pages. *shrug* You were just saying that if I don't read them/respond then I'm accepting them as truth, which I disagree with, that's all.

If you see me as another Future Esthar, then I will said I feel very wronged but I can't change how you see me as now or before.
I'm sorry I made you think I was making you out to be another FE! No, the thought of many Futures popped into my head because you were saying somebody has to stop the plague and if no one does it'll become a problem.

Again, sorry for the misunderstandings. Most of my post was just me kidding around. :) Tell me if anything is unclear still.

*goes to play with moogles* :moogle:

Christmas

07-25-2005, 04:18 PM

You were just saying that if I don't read them/respond then I'm accepting them as truth, which I disagree with, that's all.

This is what he will see from him point of view since he already have this saying "Those who keep quiet agree".

I am just glad that you can be understand. Thank you.

*goes to play with :tonberry:*

Future Esthar

07-25-2005, 04:55 PM

I am glad you found them fun.At least I know you are not angry.Or are you?

bipper

07-25-2005, 10:27 PM

Nope unknowns- i aint Random_lurker. I don't make mule accounts - ever.
I am glad to see the progress that this thread has caused though.

Thanks again lurk

bipper

Random_Lurker

07-26-2005, 12:29 PM

I can't believe Unknowns is actually getting blamed or flamed? here.....

And Sir Bahamut seems to hate her to the core.....

By the way, sparkie, I don't have a life until now you know. I will explain why.

Let me tell everyone my little story which will just take up a little of your time only.

I was an complete wastrel in school, always getting into fights and believed in my fists then anything else.

My parents tried to persuade me but I ignored everyone. To me, school is just somewhere to past time if I am bored.

No one dare to really make friends with me or even talk to me in school. Cause they do know I have relations with the...let's just said a bunch of not so friendly people outside.

Until this nerd that I met when I got changed to other class and he alway got picked on. For some reasons, I stood out for him and beat the daylights out of all those bullies. No one dare pick on him later and I went for another visit to the police station for tea.

After that, we became friends, hard to believe right? A nerd as my friend? He alway talk to me about the importance of studies and blah blah blah and not getting into fights. I gotto swear he is more persistent than the person that give birth to me.

I don't know when it happened but I slowly started to go to school more frequently and didn't sleep in a class! Slowly, I stopped hanging out with those unfriendly people I know outside and take a approach to capture all those things that I missed out in life.

That's why my life had just started to begin now unlike in the past, I will view it as a process of waiting death to claim you.

I will said Unknowns approach to Future now if better than ignoring whatever Future said as told by Sir Bahamut.

If it is wrong, then Future Esthar will wake up to his senses and same applie, if no one kept advising me, I might end up in jail now.

And if Future is right, then Unknowns will be the one waking to her senses and be able to view FF VIII in a different way but the effort put in will forever be there.

Ignoring a problem might make the problem go away but the problem will never be solved.

Also, I have updated what Future told me to.

And I dun really understand this part :

Our heros were a dynasty of kings ruling Centra

Aren't they ruling Galbadia from Timber? :confused:

By the way, Sir Bahamut, you seem to be contradicting by what you said. You said to ignore Future's threads but you were the one that kept posting the rebuttles now.

Anyway, I agree with what Unknowns is doing and hope she continue it until the problem is solved and her stories still rocks.

And Future if have any updates, post on this threads and I will try to make the updates and good luck to you.

Finally, don't bother argueing with me. My English standard is pretty low and might not even understand what you are saying and I am not good at words like I mentioned what I am good at before and don't waste your time flaming me too....I am just a lowlife if you want to view me that way but I am working hard to get rid of this title.

bipper

07-26-2005, 01:06 PM

Nice story :)

Glad to see your on the better path now. I think your post here was evident of that. Great job mediating.

bipper :)

Sir Bahamut

07-26-2005, 01:47 PM

And Sir Bahamut seems to hate her to the core.....

You've got it all wrong. I don't hate Unknown at all, I don't even dislike her. In fact, I have no real feelings towards Unknown at all. I merely disagree with her approach, that's all.

By the way, Sir Bahamut, you seem to be contradicting by what you said. You said to ignore Future's threads but you were the one that kept posting the rebuttles now.

The rebuttals in this thread are not really towards Future directly, but you are right, I do contradict myself. I shouldn't be posting anything against Futures theories, but I have done so in other threads. I guess I just keep getting annoyed when he's taken seriously, but quite frankly, anyone who thinks Futures theories are in any way valid are propably as beyond hope as Future himself =P

And I really think Future isn't a "problem that should be solved", I think Future's nothing but a big Troll. I have enough faith in mankind to believe that no one like Future could really exist. I mean, according to his profile, he's supposed to be 25 years old, for crying out loud. The only way Future could be 'legit' is if he's making his posts from inside a lunatic asylum. :rolleyes2

Anyway, as I said, I've been in more arguments with Future than anyone in this recent time, long arguments too. I was attempting to do what Unknown is trying to do know. But there comes a point where you realise that nothing is going to help, so why bother? The fact that Future now has returned with even more bizarre theories is enough proof for me that he should just be ignored.

But as you pointed out, I shouldn't really be arguing here anyway, so this will be my last post in this thread at least.

Future Esthar

07-26-2005, 01:50 PM

Great story.
You actually give the right explanation to justify people arguing with me.
Debates had to remain until people reaches an agreement OR until we reach a MIDLLE POINT(i.e a situation in wich me and you can´t go further on backing our theories and so both remains equally probable).

BY THE WAY,IF ANY OF YOU ARE CURIOUS ABOUT X POST IT HERE SINCE THE OTHER THREAD WAS CLOSED(READ THE FIRST POST OF THAT THREAD FIRST PLEASE).
OF COURSE THIS THREAD WILL CONTINUE TO BE A DISCUSSION TOPIC AND WILL NOT BECOME OFFTOPIC.

Sir Bahamut

07-26-2005, 02:08 PM

Future, why on earth can't you reveal "X" in a normal topic?

EDIT: Ah crap, 2 minutes after I say I won't post more in this thread and I make a new post >_<
Sorry.

liamo

07-26-2005, 02:13 PM

future doesn't have a clue what he is talking about half the time so lets leave it at that

Future Esthar

07-26-2005, 02:27 PM

Of course I had a clue.

Future, why on earth can't you reveal "X" in a normal topic?

Show me a forum that can only be seen by registered members and I will reveal there.Of course it must be suited to discuss FF8.

Christmas

07-26-2005, 02:44 PM

Show me a forum that can only be seen by registered members and I will reveal there.Of course it must be suited to discuss FF8.

For Yevon sake no. We dun want "this plague" to get out of control and spread too far.....

Future. This is a reference thread when ppl can read the info if they are confused by your craps.

So stop discussing your theories in other ppl threads and keep it to your own threads.

This thread had nothing to do with your revelation of "X" and you are not respecting the original poster by doing so.

I REPEAT, THIS IS NOT YOUR THREAD AND STOP TREATING IT LIKE IT'S YOURS.

Our heros were a dynasty of kings ruling Centra

Aren't they ruling Galbadia from Timber?

How do you explain this? Change it again?

And I really think Future isn't a "problem that should be solved", I think Future's nothing but a big Troll

He is more than a big troll. I will tell you when I am able to come up with a better description. But if he is one big troll and running ramapage around here, then it is a problem and the solution to a problem is solving it.

Sir Bahamut

07-26-2005, 03:13 PM

Christmas

07-26-2005, 03:20 PM

There are only two ways of getting rid of trolls:

1) Ban him/her.

The moderators can't ban him/her for no good reasons until he/she start to give herself/himself away which is what is going on now....

2) Ignore him/her.

If he is a troll, he will be celebrating his victory and contiune in pusure for more victories.

Applying reason with a troll is like discussing Shakespear with a brick wall.

Maybe he finally see the light and change or get conned and admit he is a troll and get kicked away?

Alright, I am not trying to make any....ahh...assumptions of what will or maybe going to happen.

Future Esthar

07-26-2005, 03:28 PM

This thread is about my theories so I think I can discuss here.It doesn´t matter if it was opened by another person.
This is the best place to discuss them, I think, because here people can see them as a whole.If people don´t wanna to read the rest of the thread they don´t need to.They just need to read the first post.This one is a reference one.

Our heros were a dynasty of kings ruling Centra

Aren't they ruling Galbadia from Timber?

THEY WERE A DINASTY UNTIL X POSSESSED THEM ALL.
AFTER THEY WERE POSSESSED X TRANSFORMED THEM INTO SORCERESS Y AND X MADE THEM RULE OVER A SMALL CIVILIZATION IN THE BACKWOODS OF A FOREST ON A CITY NAMED TIMBER.THIS HAPPENS BEFORE X PERFORMS TIME COMPRESSION.

Christmas

07-26-2005, 03:38 PM

This thread is about my theories so I think I can discuss here.It doesn´t matter if it was opened by another person.
This is the best place to discuss them, I think, because here people can see them as a whole.If people don´t wanna to read the rest of the thread they don´t need to.They just need to read the first post.This one is a reference one.

So you are claiming it as your own? Like I said, you have no respect to the poster nor yourself and also:

Future Esthar, you have been told not to bring your theories in to other people's threads, so don't do so here.

The poster said so himself of accepting updated infomations and not discussing informations.

THEY WERE A DINASTY UNTIL X POSSESSED THEM ALL.
AFTER THEY WERE POSSESSED X TRANSFORMED THEM INTO SORCERESS Y AND X MADE THEM RULE OVER A SMALL CIVILIZATION IN THE BACKWOODS OF A FOREST ON A CITY NAMED TIMBER.THIS HAPPENS BEFORE X PERFORMS TIME COMPRESSION.

Whatever.....

Destai

07-26-2005, 04:04 PM

It would be cool if they made a game for esthars theory. But its not true so that game isnt VIII. Stick to fanfiction instead.

Skyblade

07-26-2005, 04:08 PM

This thread is about my theories so I think I can discuss here.

He's right you know, he can post on his theories here. Of course, if he thinks posting here will get him out of the arguement in the other thread on his theories, he's deluding himself even more than usual. What's the problem, Future Esthar (I've decided to stop calling you FE, as it is an insult to other things with that abbreviation), did you not want to read the five posts telling you that you're full of it?

Christmas

07-26-2005, 04:15 PM

Skyblade

07-26-2005, 04:19 PM

Not really, the poster state that his summary is hope to settle arguements so that everyone can post and discuss all the arguements on his thread.

And by discussing here lead to more arguements which defeat the purpose.

No, the poster also stated that it might not be correct, which is basically an invitation for Future Esthar to correct him. And, as we all know all too well, once he starts on his theories it would take a mandate from God to shut him up.

Christmas

07-26-2005, 04:21 PM

Sir Bahamut

07-26-2005, 04:28 PM

Maybe he finally see the light and change or get conned and admit he is a troll and get kicked away?

I've seen my fare shair of trolls on various forums, and I'm afraid that just ain't gonna happen. Besides being banned, a Troll can only be dealt with by ignoring him/her. The moment you start arguing back is the moment the troll has won.

And yes, as I've made quite clear, Future is continously winning over me in that sense. I'll try and shut up now.

Future Esthar

07-26-2005, 04:33 PM

Christmas

07-26-2005, 04:41 PM

Correct it in a sense of adding any additional informations to the summary and not discussing.

He also invite me to correct too.....

For example: Future said "X" is me.

This doesn't need to be discussed and the poster will update it as he stated. The discussion will be done somewhere else.

Didn't you read this and:

Go post in Future's threads to ask these questions.

So, now?

By the way even me could open a thread like this.This is the kinds of things I usually do.

Go ahead. We will be waiting to see what will happen. :p

The moment you start arguing back is the moment the troll has won.

They frustrate and annoy you with their craps and you can turn around and use the same medicine against them.

And even if you ignore it, it is a fact that this troll still exist.

Skyblade

07-26-2005, 04:44 PM

Del Murder give your opinion.
Since this is about my theories I can discuss here can´t I?
It will not make the thread go offtopic.
By the way even me could open a thread like this.This is the kinds of things I usually do.

Random Lurker,am I disrespecting you?

How do you amplify letters by the way?

By ending with {/SIZE}. Just put in [] instead of {}. Like this: Future Esthar doesn't listen to reason! Sorry for that, but I'm just trying to help...

Oh, and you're wrong, Bahamut. These battles can be won, as evidenced by the fact that SummonerCloud hasn't shown his face in the FFTA forum since the extreme smackdown he suffered at the hands of me and a few friends.

bipper

07-26-2005, 05:11 PM

Wow, so we go from listening to half baked theories to killing trolls!? That's awsome. Mabey your "TROLL" Metephore has as much base as you put in futures theories. Everything is relative here. His theories may be incorrect but now you are going against his right to post?

I mean, when I first started reading these (aye I am a new register) people were saying that they are not trying to say that others cannot post. Now we are conjouring up ideas agianst that very concensus. Hypocritical. Great - Let Future Eth post his theories here and where ever they are discussed. You think they are all crap and such _GREAT_! Do not read them and do not post flaming the crap outta the guy. It all just seems really hypocritical to tead what he is saying _just_ to make an ass outta him. Sure, If he is wrong - prove him wrong. You can only prove facts - you can't change or prove prespective. If i think the sky is yellow - and that pisses you off - ignore me. I swear a troll wont eat ya.

:) Unknown - I do agree implicitly with your approach - good work.

This post is not really directed at anyone poster so dont take it all personally. Just take it to thought - thanks!

Bipper

Skyblade

07-26-2005, 05:25 PM

bipper

07-26-2005, 05:39 PM

ACtually no never heard that term before- Haha

well then these posts make a helluva more sence.

(someone give me the jackass of the day award! Again!)

Bipper

Skyblade

07-26-2005, 05:52 PM

ACtually no never heard that term before- Haha

well then these posts make a helluva more sence.

(someone give me the jackass of the day award! Again!)

Bipper

*Bows*

Consider it done. :D

(Seriously, don't sweat it. No one knows everything)

Fonzie

07-26-2005, 09:10 PM

So all this information together suggest that Future is a tard. j/k :D

Sir Bahamut

07-26-2005, 11:30 PM

Well, Unknown, it's clear you and I will never agree on this matter until one of us is proven wrong. I am, however, quite confident that no measure of showing Future his inconsistencies will help a bit.

But hey, that's just me.

crazybayman

07-27-2005, 12:10 PM

Okay, I'll go against my word once more, just to say one thing:

There are only two ways of getting rid of trolls:

1) Ban him/her.

2) Ignore him/her.

Applying reason with a troll is like discussing Shakespear with a brick wall.
Exactly. Arguing with Future is a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME. I've already wasted too much time in my few arguments with him.

Honestly....who cares if some guy in the EoFF forums thinks these retarded theories. Its not a problem, its just someone with too much time on their hands.

Random Lurker, your story is a great one, its great to see that you've gotten back on track. However, Futures insane theories are nowhere close to the same scale. He obviously wants people to argue with him, you can tell when he says, "my theory is true, unless someone proves it false".

Well guess what Future, that's not true. Its not like your theories and whether we dispute them or not actually matters. Its not like they will decide the outcome in Iraq, alter the balance of the ecosystem, or even the outcome of the next Final Fantasy game :p . Its not like its a published and socially accepted law of physics, its just merely your interpretation of the game, and if YOU want to believe this sort of crap, then that's your problem. I've argued you at times because I just find you annoying that you're silly enough to believe this crap, not because I have to prove you wrong and set the scales of Final Fantasy justice right again.

And if this sort of stubborness and foolishness carries over into real life, then may God help you.

I've gotta say, it REALLY PISSES me off when you have the gall to say "Just because I say this ridiculous crap, someone must prove me wrong. If no one says anything, then it must be true". That sir, is one of the STUPIDEST and untrue things I've ever heard.

sparkie

07-27-2005, 12:44 PM

Random_Lurker: Ok... I wasn't serious about you not having a life, really. You should hear my life story (some of it you wouldn't believe) but I don't see what the purpose of that would be or how it pertains to this thread. But I apologize anyway. Why don't you post more often though? You don't have to be a random lurker you know. :)

Maybe we are the stupid ones for trying to make him understand that he's delusional because we're delusional about him changing his mind and of course, we don't even know his mental state (maybe he's on meds and stuff). And I hope to god he is seeing a therapist. Although I don't know why, since that would probably have no effect on him either... Oh well, who knows why we respond? I guess I just want to see if he's capable of being an even bigger moron than before. :D

Christmas

07-27-2005, 04:43 PM

To Bipper:

In the context of the Internet, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages intended to cause a disruption in discourse. The word is also often used to describe such messages.

Nvm now, I think he decided to stop discussing his theories in other people thread currently from what I see that is......

I also see a lot of people contradicting with themselves saying not to post but start to post again. :D

It's ok anyway. :)

Skyblade

07-27-2005, 05:10 PM

Squall of SeeD

07-27-2005, 05:38 PM

To Bipper:

In the context of the Internet, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages intended to cause a disruption in discourse. The word is also often used to describe such messages.

They could also be described as one who posts something with the intent to annoy others or to generate inflammatory messages from them, whether their own initial message was inflammatory or not.

Future Esthar

07-29-2005, 04:25 PM

LOOK,WHILE YOU PROVE ME WRONG YOU HAVE NO BASIS TO SAY THEY WERE NOT TRUE.I DON´T SAY THEY ARE THRUTH BUT YOU ALSO HAS NO BASE TO SAY IT WAS WRONG OR SILY OR BULSHETT BECAUSE YOU CAN´T PROVE IT.THAT´S WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.AND I DON´T POST THEORIES AT RANDOM.I TRY TO THINK THINGS THROUGH BEFORE I POST THEM.I THINK TOOOO MUCH.TOOOOOOO MUCH.I THINK ON ALL POSSIBILITIES (OR AT LEAST MOST IF I FORGOT TO CONSIDER SOME). :mad2:
I DON´T COMPARE GRAPHICS AT RANDOM.I THINK TOOO MUCH BEFORE I DO. :mad2:
IT´S NOT LIKE I SEE TWO WHITE PERSONS AND SAY THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON WITHOUT THINKING.MY THEORIES WERE NOT SO FAR AS STUPID AS YOUR SARCASTIC THEORIES WERE. :mad2:
SO DON´T SAY I NEED TO GO TO A THERAPIST. :mad2:
THERE WERE NOT ANY INTERNAL(NOR EXTERNAL) INCONSISTENCIES ON THE OVERALL THEORY ON ff8 RESUMED HERE.THE POSTER WERE A LITTLE DESORGANIZED HERE.BUT IF YOU TRY TO ORGANIZE THE IDEAS HERE YOU WILL SEE THAT.
IF YOU FIND INCONSISTENCIES IT´S BECAUSE YOU DON´T UNDERSTOOD MY THEORIES ON FF8.
I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND INCONSISTENCIES.IF THERE WERE I GLADLY CHANGE IT.
I PROMISE I WILL NOT IGNORE YOUR POSTS NOW.I SWEAR :cry:
BUT PLEASE POST A FEW AT A TIME SO I DON´T GET LOST. :)

Christmas

07-29-2005, 04:40 PM

EDIT:CRAP!!!I just said stop discussing your theories in this thread and I just did.!!!! :D

And Future, if you want to discuss your theories, go to your own threads.

Future Esthar

07-29-2005, 05:14 PM

I still thinks I can discuss them here since it was entirely about my theories.
I will only stop when I get a warn from a mod.

Sir Bahamut

07-29-2005, 05:30 PM

Look, Future, I'm willing to have one last argument with you, but ONLY if you can present all your theories into one post here, and if you present all arguments behind each and every point in your theories.

If you do that, I am willing to make one last attempt at discrediting them. You see, the problem with arguing against you is that you are always making up new theories and changing old ones, so no one really knows what the hell you actually believe.

crazybayman

07-29-2005, 05:33 PM

ahhh......A challenge!!!

Sir Bahamut

07-29-2005, 05:41 PM

I should add that if you do not wish to summarise your theories, I will be assuming it is either because you know your theories are bad, or because you are too lost in the myriad of 'ideas' you have that you are simply unable to summarise them all.

sparkie

07-29-2005, 07:37 PM

I also see a lot of people contradicting with themselves saying not to post but start to post again. :D
No it wasn't me! I was possessed by X!!! ;)

Future, you're so cute when you're mad.

LOOK,WHILE YOU PROVE ME WRONG YOU HAVE NO BASIS TO SAY THEY WERE NOT TRUE.I DON´T SAY THEY ARE THRUTH BUT YOU ALSO HAS NO BASE TO SAY IT WAS WRONG OR SILY OR BULSHETT BECAUSE YOU CAN´T PROVE IT.
You don't? Then what's this:

It´s not like I give up.
It´s that I am sick of trying to show you the thruth and get offended.

crazybayman

07-29-2005, 07:47 PM

Future, you're so cute when you're mad.

LOOK,WHILE YOU PROVE ME WRONG YOU HAVE NO BASIS TO SAY THEY WERE NOT TRUE.I DON´T SAY THEY ARE THRUTH BUT YOU ALSO HAS NO BASE TO SAY IT WAS WRONG OR SILY OR BULSHETT BECAUSE YOU CAN´T PROVE IT.
You don't? Then what's this:

It´s not like I give up.
It´s that I am sick of trying to show you the thruth and get offended.

oh no!! Now he's mad!! :p

Christmas

07-30-2005, 03:15 AM

Very well then. I will act like as I am possessed by Yu Yevon here and goes back my word.

I should add that if you do not wish to summarise your theories, I will be assuming it is either because you know your theories are bad, or because you are too lost in the myriad of 'ideas' you have that you are simply unable to summarise them all.

He will said his theories can't be summarize and need to be supported by weaker theories which is needed to be support by even weaker theories which will take million of posts...blah,blah,blah...

This is what he alway said but I certainly hope he won't do it this time round and since Random_Lurker can, why can't the theorist himself can?

IF YOU FIND INCONSISTENCIES IT´S BECAUSE YOU DON´T UNDERSTOOD MY THEORIES ON FF8.
I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND INCONSISTENCIES.IF THERE WERE I GLADLY CHANGE IT.

Look Future, these are the thingies I posted ages ago but you made no reply to them. So I will post them again.

Art galleries don´t need to have pictures related to each other.That´s why they are art.

So then why did you insist the "watchman", "love" and "red clothes" are related to each other?

Julia don´t die.Deling made it look like she was dead but she was not.He uses media to confuse people

You once say she died and got buried in dingo desert then deling came along and revive her with magic now she didn't die?

Do you know realize what you have been doing? You just keep taking back the every words you spoke and replace their after you got rebuttled and this is not the first time you did this.

And no this is not call learning from us,the non open minded(or open minded in a small aspect) and "whatever "members you claimed.

We are here to point out what is wrong and let you realize your mistakes.Unlike what you are doing now, you insisted that your theory must be correct and must be the truth no matter what despite that it is not the only one or two flaws that surfaced. And if someone rebuttled, you just quickly cover up the flaw and claimed that you are learning, but in truth trying to save your own pride.

Your so call seek for truth is just something to turn your theory into a flawless one which is originally full of flaws at the very foundation of the theroy itself. And if the foundation is rotten, no matter how you cover it, it will not prevent people to see the rot. We are not primary school teachers here to correct your compositions so that you can write better next time you know.

And why did he revive her so that she will kill him in the future? ("X" again aren't you?)

In fact Laguna recognizes Edea was Julia but keep it silent(according to his watchman personality).

And how do you know this and I interpret the watchmen differently from yours so you can't use the portrait as proof since there are different interpretations.

This could as well be a fanfiction that tells what the writer intended when he created the story.

I must say you are not FIT to say this statement non anyone than the writer himself or someone that the writer recognized. Do you know that by saying reflect on your arrogant and how you are so full of yourself on your theory when you cannot even prove it and just by all those words you claimed logic supported by nothing then your mouth.

Exactly.But the information at the tutorial is not supposed to be something that the author intended.It represents a summary of the current knowledge people gains in the game.

It is the HISTORY and TRUTH of what is about the game or else it will not appear in there if it is meant to confuse people. The current knowledge gained by the people in the game is what is told by the game itself so it make sense that it is the truth and what the author wanted everyone to know.

Look,their real identities as Propagators shows up when their are possessed.X uses all their potentialities when he possess them.

You said they are propagators just based on the deformed hand of Edea which is caused by the practice of black magic which you admit than later went back on your words once again as usual. And some monsters in the game have deformed body parts too so Edea and gang is related to those monsters? Also the practice of black magic is concrete proof from the Game Guide which Square sell for a living. Do you think Square will post lies inside and take the risks of losing it income when you unreveal the truth?

And if Edea is proven propagator by her hand, then what about the others?

Their sorceress abilities come from the fact that they are Propagators.The transformations we see in the game were parcial though.
If they transform tottally we would see them in the form of Propagators.

No, they are not and this link is the proof:

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/1941/sorceress21go.th.png (http://img305.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sorceress21go.png)

This link is directly taken from the tutorial and you can't say it is lie as I proved the tutorial is the truth and you are not in the position to claim the tutorial is a lie anyway.

Also we dun see any of them transforming into propagator in the game except from you of course. And since you see what is claim parcial, post a screenshot like you alway rely on graphical details.

There is no real basis to say that(except Ellone which is Rinoa).
With more accuracy I can show you that Quistis and Selphie were sorceresses.

Your so called accuracy is still not valid and the genes is one of the problem that bring down what you call accuracy.

By Edea´s house I mean an area around the house.There is no proof that Sorceress Adel went to that area.So she can´t be Ulti.As I said Ulti´s time was on the past,not the future.

And you can't say Adel didn't go there either. There are a lot of questions like this which you can't say is right and wrong so this can't be used as a point and along with several and I can point out that there might be other sorceress hiding in the world as stated below:

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/1941/sorceress21go.th.png (http://img305.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sorceress21go.png)

2a-X is the responsible for every Lunar Cry.The Lunar cry is needed for Time Compression to succeed.
2b-Since Ulti was on the master room she don´t get buried.Only the lower parts of the castle were buried

Once again I will say this is really "stories" to me since I can also say I am responsible for every Lunar cry and I am the one behind all this plot. Every tiny little things that you found hard to cover, you shifted them to "X" which I claimed to be Hyne/Yu Yevon.

Instead of being a dinasty of Centra kings they all were get to an orphanage on Ulti´s time
Exactly.Which means Edea was a queen over Centra before the Lunar cry.

Once again, there is no telling how the Centra is ruled as told in the game with a link provided to support it not to say Edea is a queen too that is since I claimed myself as the Emperess of the Centra Empire. :D
Anyone want to be my subjects? :p

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/743/centra3zs.th.png (http://img324.imageshack.us/my.php?image=centra3zs.png)

Exactly.But I am also serious in trying to find the thruth.

You dun seem to be seeking the truth but making a flawless "theory" by "amending" it each time people rebuttled.

Oh yeah.Sure they can´t proof it.But they can proof it´s possible.Otherwise show me wrong.

You were the one that say you no need proof for theories and once again you want people to prove it to you? Just how many time you just eat back your words? Aren't you afraid you might get unbalanced digestion for such an unhealthy diet? And we did show prove which you just claim they are lies or just quickly took back your words like now. But even we can't proof it, you cannot proof it possible either.
There is not only wrong or right in this world like black and white. There is alway a grey spot in the middle.

And why my theory is impossible?.Show me why.If you tell it it´s because you know why.
Just give-me a little example.You don´t need to comment it all.

By all the points I pointed up from your first threads to this one and several unanswered questions you claimed you have answered.
if you want more of my example, go search my posts on your thread.

I am really sure that almost all of my theories were thruth.It´s not the case that I know they are not true.Really.
I am not the type of person who would present theories which I know aren´t thruth just to irritate people.
In fact I did this with a few of them but just a little few.But it was not to irritate people.In fact it was the opposite

Truth need to be proven and supported with facts and proofs especially with those that came from the game itself which you claimed they are lying which your theories dun except for those rumblings that you made which is just what you think is logicial and supported with nothing rather than your words.And once again you are also not FIT to make such a statement unless Square recognize it as the TRUTH or this is just your pure deduction.

No fan-based theory is truth unless proven so pls dun be so full of yourself and you do know that it us that point out your flaws which you secretly went to cover it up and claimed credit for yourself.

(the truth would irritate the people)

That is why you refuse to accept the truth and create a dream world for yourself which you claimed to be the truth

Squall don´t remember everything at once.He remember as long as time passes.One time he remembers this,then on another time that,etc...
He just have the flashback of the master room when he approaches it.

When is this happening and how come no one knew it except the bearer of truth that is you. And we dun see any flashback when a Squall approach the master room.

X just needs to seal Ellone´s powers.He don´t need do destroy her

Like I repeat myself which you left answered as usual for some mysterious reasons :Like the game say, she is NEEDED for TIME COMPRESSION and not sealed

They DO look alike.
The first sorceress not only dress blue but has long black hair and seems young.
The second sorceress dresses a cloth with different colors but they are all in the yellow tonality.Also the sorceress seems older,experienced and mature like Quistis which is an instructor.The third sorceress is the one which is more difficult to see the similarities.This happens because she is near her Propagator form.Look at her arms and you will see similarities with the propagator ones.I will come back to this one.The fourth one is Ulti which I theorized that she was Edea.I will try to show evidence of that with time.

FOR ALL GAMERS OUT THERE, FRANKLY SPEAKING, DO ANYONE THINK THE RANDOM SORCERESS THAT YOU FOUGHT DURING TIME COMPRESSION LOOK ANYWHERE ALIKE TO RINOA, QUISTIS AND SELPHIE????

A sorceress can appear many times.But it doesn´t mean they were different sorceresses.Since they are equal they should be the same.
Basically X possessed these sorceresses while the Pandora time travels to kick SeeD ass.

And who told you this? A fairy godmother or the seven dwarfs? If the same sorceress can appear many time, why didn't Adel just keep coming back instead of those freaks? And for your info they are not equal.

Don´t get confused,please.What I said was not a part of game´s walkthrough but a theory of mine on what really happens.

Once again, you still can't claim it to be truth oh mightly one and this is no theory at least from my POV. Wonder why ppl take the effort to write the walkthrough only to be ruined by you.

And Xaven's eyes genetic and my hair genetics dun apply and you avoided the questions once again for some unknown reason.

And for U=J, I dun wish to repeat myself that your portrait thingy can't prove a thing.

I PROMISE I WILL NOT IGNORE YOUR POSTS NOW.I SWEAR

So you finally willing to admit you ignore our posts which you claim you didn't earlier on.

EDIT: Future said let the whole matter rest so this post can be ignored.

Future Esthar

07-30-2005, 06:40 PM

I PROMISE I WILL NOT IGNORE YOUR POSTS NOW.I SWEAR

This appears on the context of this thread only related to the theories on the first post.I said I will not ignore the posts in which you try to show that they were inconsistent with the game.This is not the same thing as to say that they don´t appear on the game or to say they cant be proofed.
Inconsistent means "which deny or replace the events on the game making them impossible to cohexist with it"

An example of a theory consistent with the game which don´t appears on the game and that can´t be proofed:
When Squall goes to the white seed ship Edea found a fish on the sea and yelled to Cid-What a beautiful blue fish.

My theories were like this but on my case I try to extrapulate information using some hints based on graphical details,events and script.
In the example above there we see a theory which has no hints on the game.

An example of a theory inconsistent with the game:
After Squall and company got to Edea´s house on the third disc
she says-I was possessed by Sephiroth which tries to summon Meteor on the Earth.
And then Squall get out of her house and went to Lunatic Pandora on the Ragnarok.

Unknowns,since your questions were not about inconsistencies but proofs I am not forced to reply to them because this was not what I promised.

So I will ignore your questions NOW and I will respond LATER.

Sir Bahamut,the poster already described my theories.
I will not change them,seriously.

Sir Bahamut

07-30-2005, 09:07 PM

Allright, then one last attempt. But I want to make it clear that if you ignore even a single point of my posts, I'll ignore you until you go back and comment on everything. If you still ignore one or more points, I will assume you are unable to defend your theories and stop debating at once. Anyway:

An unknown villian named "X" controlled the FF VIII cast and make them ruled over Galbadia from Timber.

Firstly, let's cut the crap here. You PMd me saying "X" is Doc Odine, so let's stop saying X and saying Odine, ok?

Secondly, we don't know anything about the past leaders of Galbadia or Timber, so unless you have a very good argument to show this, it will have to be dismissed. You can't make assumptions based on nothing, after all.

Thirdly, what on earth makes you think Odine is evil all powerful villain?

"X" is the responsible for every Lunar Cry.The Lunar cry is needed for Time Compression to succeed

The game tells us that it the Lunar Cry is something that happens periodically, and can also be summoned using the Crystal Pillar(a huge rock from the moon). The latter is confirmed when the Lunar Cry is summoned using the Crystal Pillar in disc 3. So I have to ask you what makes you think that Odine is actually causing this phenomenon. Again, if you have no argument, this will be dismissed.

Rinoa, a girl with special power sent the consious of the people to the past and let them see some unpleasants events or stuff regarding Hyne.

EDIT: The issue of Ellone being Rinoa is treated further down.

Our heros were a dynasty of kings ruling Centra.(........)

Previously you said that the heroes were ruling Timber and Galbadia. Now they ruled Esthar as well? And how can Squall and Co form a 'dynasty of kings' when that would firstly require them all to be men(which they obviously aren't), and secondly require them to be each others sons.

This point makes no sense and contradicts a previous point. Please clarify, or both points will be dismissed.

Laguna´s name was Vascaroon.Vascaroon,Kyros and Ward were guardians of the Centra castle at Ulti´s time.

Vascaroon lived near the beginning of mankind itself. Judging by the technology of the era we play in, this was thousands of years ago. Lagunas age is given in the tutorial, and it is not 5768 or whatever.
Are you saying that Vascaroon was immortal, and kept on going until in our time he changed his name to Laguna? If so, provide an argument, or this will be dismissed.

Now, Ultimecias time is hundreds of years ahead of the game we play. If Laguna is an immortal Vascaroon(which I repeat you must provide an argument for), he could live then. But for Kiros and Ward to be there too, they'd have to either have an extended lifespan, or be immortal as well. Both options will need an argument, or this will be dismissed.

Oh, and there is no Centra Castles in Ultimecias time. The Centra were wiped out hundreds of years before Ultimecias era. That is that the game tells us. If you believe the game is mistaken, please provide an argument, or this will be dismissed.

Vascaroon fell in love for Ulti which is still Edea by that time?.

You'll have to give an argument for Vascaroons existence before fleshing out his life.

Rinoa try to find Squall at the flower field because she fell in love with him.

Yes. This is rather obvious though, don't you think?

[Odine] is afraid so he used time compression to warp every characters of different time and age to the very same time with the very same age which is the world of FF VIII also called "Well Organized Time Compression" (WOTC) by Future Esthar.

The world of FF8 is NOT a time compressed world. It is stated more than once that only Ultimecia can live in a time compressed world, which means we couldn't possibly be playing the game to begin with.

The characters don't know that they have been warped from their time each given a specific role in life arranged by [Odine] and they are actually propagators in human forms.

Firstly, as mentioned, time compression is never completed, and it doesn't merely put people in different eras. It compresses all of time into a single event, making normal progress through time. You'd be frozen in time. So this point is flawed right from the start.

Secondly, what makes you think the characters are Propagators? If you do not provide an argument, this will be dismissed.

The family line of the characters goes like this:

Edea + Seifer = Rinoa
Rinoa + Squall = Quistis
Quistis + Zell = Selphie

And Selphie will marry Irvine in the future.

Of all these, only the point that Selphie and Irvine marry holds any validity whatsoever. The others don't make sense since they're all the same age(except Edea, but this doesn't matter). As explained before, you cannot use time compression to argue that they were all brought together to one era.

Oh, and please provide an argument behind each branch of the family tree, or all will be dismissed.

Rinoa is adopted by Caraway and his wife Julia.

This isn't all that important, but what makes you think this? There is no reason to believe they didn't have the baby the normal way.

Caraway then murdered his wife Julia and send Rinoa to Winhill.
Julia survived which was captured by Deling which turned her to Edea.
Edea who is possessed by [Odine], Edea time travelled to the past and married Cid where they set up the orphanage together.

1) Provide an argument as to why you believe Caraway killed Julia. If not, this will be dismissed.
2) Provide an argument to back up your belief that Delin was capable of turning people into other people, and then an argument as to why he would do this to Julia.
3) Show how it would be possible for Edea to travel to the past when there are no existing time machines in FF8.
4) I thought you believed Julia was Ultimecia. Please choose one or the other, and make subsequent alterings of your theories.

*It is told by Future that both Deling & Caraway are actually*
monsters possessed by [Odine].

Please provide an argument as to why you believe this.

Rinoa is adopted by a family in Winhill which is later killed by Esthar soldiers.
Her name is changed to Ellone and this point of time.
Ellone met Laguna and Raine.

Please provide an argument behind why you believe Rinoa was adopted in Winhill and why she changed her name.

Also, we see Rinoa and Ellone standing next to eachother in the game. If Ellone is Rinoa, who is the Rinoa we see in the game?

Ellone is later send to the orphanage and Edea took care of her.
Ellone met Squall in the orphanage where they fell in love.

Squall is always referring to Ellone as his sister, so are you suggesting some sort of incest thing going on? Furhtermore, they were both small children, who aren't really capable of falling in love anyway. This point needs clarification.

Edea then send Ellone to the White SeeD ship when Caraway recaptured her.

Do you mean to say that Caraway knew that Edea was Julia, his wife, and that he wanted her back? This point needs clarification.

Edea masterminded everything.

I though Odine was masterminding everything. Please choose one or the other, and make subsequent alterations.

Caraway used the Junction Machine Ellone he obtained from Odine and clone a fake Ellone and send her back to the White SeeD ship. Ellone is then once again called Rinoa after Caraway locked her in a room to prevent her from using her power.

Firstly, are you suggesting that the Junction Machine Ellone can clone people? If so, please provide an argument or this will be dismissed.

Secondly; so are you saying that the Ellone who was adopted in Winhill went back to being Rinoa as Caraways daughter, to have the clone Ellone replace her in Winhill? This point needs clarification.

Thirdly, please provide an argument behind all of these points, or they will all be dismissed.

Watts and Zone which is said by Future as Ward and Laguna in disguise rescued her.

Rescued who? The clone or Rinoa(who was apparently being locked up by Caraway). This point needs both clarification and an argument.

Edea try to scan Squall and CO's memories in the desert prision to possess them but failed.

Firstly, WHY?

Secondly, it is never implied that Edea can possess anyone. If you mean that Ultimecia is going to possess them, it is also implied that she can only possess sorceresses. This point needs clarification.

Edea stopped everyone from sleeping in Balamb when she took over so as to stop Ellone/Rinoa from sending the consious of the people to the past so that they won't know what happened in the orphanage.

Firstly, what do you mean about everyone sleeping?

Secondly, why was Edea so keen about not letting anyone find out that they went to the same Orphanage. This points needs clarification and an argument.

[Odine] who masterminded everything is out for a hunt for Ellone so as to seal her power.

As Random Lurker pointed out, do you mean the clone Ellone or Ellone/Rinoa? Furthermore, why does Odine want to seal Ellones powers?

When Squall & Co defeated Adel, they were time travelled to the past using the Lunatic Pandora which the Galbadians masterminded.

They found Ultimecia's castle in the past which is Edea's house after being transformed.

The Lunatic Pandora is not a time travelling device. Furhtermore, Ultimecias era is in the future, not the past. This is made quite clear in the game. If you believe otherwise, please provide an argument.

---

Satisfied, Future? As you can see, you are quite inconsistent with your theories. If you cannot answer every single one of my points here, I'll stop. Remember that.

PS: Yes, I realise how stupid I am for doing this =P

Christmas

07-31-2005, 02:32 PM

Firstly, let's cut the crap here. You PMd me saying "X" is Doc Odine, so let's stop saying X and saying Odine, ok?

Aren't this supposed to be a secret?....Oh well....

Sir Bahamut

07-31-2005, 02:41 PM

There's no reason why it should be kept a secret, and since it's an essential part of Futures theory, you cannot deal with his theories without dealing with "X".

Christmas

07-31-2005, 02:55 PM

I dun know what he PM you about, but when he PM me, he stressed the importance of keeping this a secret and not breaking the trust he place on me.

I dun really know what so important about this but I treat it as a form of respect to uphold the promise I gave to him even though like you said:

There's no reason why it should be kept a secret, and since it's an essential part of Futures theory, you cannot deal with his theories without dealing with "X".

I did suggest to him that he reveal it himself but he said give him some time. NVM now, what done cannot be undone. Let's hope he dun mind. :)

Future Esthar

07-31-2005, 04:53 PM

You found no inconsistencies on my theory.
I think I already explained the difference between a consistent theory and a proofed theory but you don´t understood.
By the way,how can X be Odine?What a stupid crazy theory.He has no real power.(I will kill my brother).

Well,I will myself show the consistencies.

An unknown villian named "X" controlled the FF VIII cast and make them ruled over Galbadia from Timber.

This happened before WOTC.That´s why it doesn´t appear on the game.
There were few things happening before WOTC which also appears on the game.Very little few.

"X" is the responsible for every Lunar Cry.The Lunar cry is needed for Time Compression to succeed.

This happens within WOTC.
Nothing on the game contradicts the possibility of Lunar cry being artificial.The Lunar cry was not entirely understood after all.

Rinoa, a girl with special power sent the consious of the people to the past and let them see some unpleasants events or stuff regarding Hyne.

Who says Rinoa needs to sleep to use her ability?
It is not suggested that she can´t use it while she performs a normal task so it don´t contradict what we saw on the game.I will also show this on the analysis of other posts relating to her(the ones that explains how she can be Ellone).

Our heros were a dynasty of kings ruling Centra.(........)

This happened before WOTC and we can not saw it on the game.Hence it is consistent.

Laguna´s name was Vascaroon.Vascaroon,Kyros and Ward were guardians of the Centra castle at Ulti´s time.

Happened before WOTC

Vascaroon fell in love for Ulti which is still Edea by that time?.

And this also.

Rinoa try to find Squall at the flower field because she fell in love with him.

This was one of the things happening before WOTC that also appears on the game.

X is afraid so he used time compression to warp every characters of different time and age to the very same time with the very same age which is the world of FF VIII also called "Well Organized Time Compression" (WOTC) by Future Esthar.

There is nothing on the game suggesting that the world of FF8 is not WOTC nor that people dye on Time Compression.
And the word of Ultimecia is not valid.Hence this theory is consistent.

Secondly, what makes you think the characters are Propagators? If you do not provide an argument, this will be dismissed.

Squall and Rinoa fought the Propagators inside WOTC.So it´s plausable that they can fight with themselves.Because it´s WOTC.And on WOTC it can happen.

The family line of the characters goes like this:

Edea + Seifer = Rinoa
Rinoa + Squall = Quistis
Quistis + Zell = Selphie

And Selphie will marry Irvine in the future.

Already explained why this can be consistent.

Rinoa is adopted by Caraway and his wife Julia.

Random_Lurker make a mistake.Rinoa is Julia´s daughter.
But not from Caraway.

There is nothing suggesting it is.Rinoa call him father because she don´t knows she is adopted.There was nothing on the game contradicting it.Hence,this is not inconsistent.

Caraway then murdered his wife Julia and send Rinoa to Winhill.
Julia survived which was captured by Deling which turned her to Edea.
Edea who is possessed by X, Edea time travelled to the past and married Cid where they set up the orphanage together.

Look,many of the things said here were events that the game don´t show.The game don´t show Julia dying neither.And there is no way to say there were not time machines on FF8.There were a whole bunch of them.So,this theory is not inconsistent.

*It is told by Future that both Deling & Caraway are actually*
monsters possessed by X.

Looking at the game we can´t say that they weren´t.So it is consistent.

Rinoa is adopted by a family in Winhill which is later killed by Esthar soldiers.
Her name is changed to Ellone and this point of time.
Ellone met Laguna and Raine.

Correction:Ellone was allways named Ellone.Another mistake of Lurker.
We don´t see the "parents" on Winhill giving birth to her .We don´t ever saw her "parents".So it is consistent.

Ellone is later send to the orphanage and Edea took care of her.
Ellone met Squall in the orphanage where they fell in love.

Ellone is not Squall´s sister not even knowing LRS is right.

Squall and Ellione were too little soo they don´t knew they were in love.
They were too little to understand.So the theory can be consistent.

Edea then send Ellone to the White SeeD ship when Caraway recaptured her.

No one tells us what is happening after Ellone goes to the ship.
So no one can say it is inconsistent.

Caraway used the Junction Machine Ellone he obtained from Odine and clone a fake Ellone and send her back to the White SeeD ship. Ellone is then once again called Rinoa after Caraway locked her in a room to prevent her from using her power.

Again,this weren´t events we saw on the game.The game don´t really show us what happens here so this could be consistent.
I mean that Caraway transformed the machine at Ellone´s image.

And yes,Caraway replace Rinoa with the machine Ellone.

Edea try to scan Squall and CO's memories in the desert prision to possess them but failed.

We see a machine that sends currents through Squall´s body.
And some kind of TV set.Seifer don´t knows what is happening and everyone but Edea and the guards thought this was just a machine for torture.So there is no way we say there is an inconsistency here.
And X can possess our heros as long as they lose all their memory.

Edea stopped everyone from sleeping in Balamb when she took over so as to stop Ellone/Rinoa from sending the consious of the people to the past so that they won't know what happened in the orphanage.

X motivations can not be seen on the game.This make this theory not inconsistent.

X who masterminded everything is out for a hunt for Ellone so as to seal her power.

Ulti made it look through Edea that she was looking for Elle to achieve Time Compression.This could be a lie since she is a villain.This is not inconsistent on any way because there is no evidence on the game that she looks for Elle to perform TC.

When Squall & Co defeated Adel, they were time travelled to the past using the Lunatic Pandora which the Galbadians masterminded.

They found Ultimecia's castle in the past which is Edea's house after being transformed.

This is the reason why I can say there is no evidence that Ulti look for Ellone to achieve TC.
It´s because TC don´t really start after Squall and company defeated Adel.It was the Galbadians who activated an holographic film while they fall.And then the Pandora itself time traveled (on a normal manner).This don´t contradict what we see in the game because there was no way to tell if there was a film or not.

As you saw I showed that my theories weren´t inconsistent with the game.Some of them don´t appear on the game.Others constitute a different interpretation of the events we see(like the last one and the one about the scanning machine) but I think none of them can be proofed.

Skyblade

07-31-2005, 07:40 PM

Future Esthar, unlike Sir Bahamut (who's post was excellent, well reasoned, and pretty much everything that yours was not), I am not going to sit here and inform you of the stupidity of your theories. That has been done countless times, and has not seemed to do a thing except exhaust the fingers of the one who has being informing you. Instead, I will point out a few pieces of information that involve theories in generally, add a little advice as to how they pertain to you in particular, and suggest you start thinking about these points.

First, an inconsistent theory is false. If a theory is not consistent with either itself or the game (and Sir Bahamut pointed out that yours was consistent with neither), it can not be an accurate theory.

Second, a consistent theory is not necessarily an accurate theory. Even if your theories were consistent, if there is absolutely no evidence in the game supporting them, chances are that they are not correct. Consistency is required to have an accurate theory, but it is not enough to prove accuracy.

Third, do not keep secrets about your theories, since all they will do is make people even more skeptical about them.

Fourth, do not let your brother use your account. Actually, I doubt that you did, because the sheer number of people (including myself) who were told that Odine was X means that you must have been totally ignoring an entire thread while your brother spread lies about your theories. This is also another reason not to keep secrets about your theories.

Fifth, arguing that everything in your theory happened outside of the game is total bull$#!+. I could make up a theory that Hyne was actually the Card Queen, and you can't disprove it because Hyne disguised himself as the Card Queen before the game starts. What's more, the information that the game has about the time before the game starts clearly indicates that your theories are inaccurate. Unfortunately for you, you are not in the U.S. court system right now, and your theories are not "innocent until proven guilty". As you are presenting theories about the game, the burden of proof lies with you. You have to give in game evidence that your theories have some validity if you expect them to be believed.

Sir Bahamut

07-31-2005, 08:01 PM

Future Esthar:

I see that you have, by failing to come up with a single argument to any of your points, completely ignored my entire post. As such, I'll be assuming this is because you are unable to find any arguments to your theory, because there aren't any to begin with. So unless you will, in your next post, go back over my post again and come with arguments to all the points, your entire theory is dismissed.

Skyblades post summed up very nicely why arguments are so important. If you have a problem with my decision to ignore your further posts until you come with arguments, please respond to his post.

Future Esthar

07-31-2005, 08:41 PM

I already do what I promised.

I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND INCONSISTENCIES.IF THERE WERE I GLADLY CHANGE IT.
I PROMISE I WILL NOT IGNORE YOUR POSTS NOW.I SWEAR
BUT PLEASE POST A FEW AT A TIME SO I DON´T GET LOST

My promise refers only to the first line which is about inconsistencies.
As you saw I tried to show that my theories were consistent.
You don´t show they were inconsistent (go see my definition of inconsistency few posts ago).
So I go far as to keep my promise.
That´s just it.
Good afternoon.

Sir Bahamut

07-31-2005, 10:03 PM

So in other words, you cannot provide any arguments to back up your theories, which in turn means your theories are simply not valid.

*shrugs*

That's fine with me in any case.

Squall of SeeD

08-01-2005, 07:10 AM

Future, something you fail to understand about theories about storylines is that they need more than internal consistency (which is to say, consistency among themselves). They need consistency when applied to the previously established facts of the storyline, and they cannot bring in information that is not suggested or implied by the story. They have to use what is already there to explain something else about what is already there.

When a theory has to contradict previously established facts or previously unimplied concepts in order to hold internal consistency, it is not a valid theory. It may be consistent with itself, but if it is inconsistent with the story that it is about, it is rendered invalid.

P.S. Lying to try to cover your ass doesn't make you look any more credible.

Christmas

08-01-2005, 11:55 AM

I must admit this is one of the reply that deserve the gayest and lamest replies of the century award.

Again,this weren´t events we saw on the game.The game don´t really show us what happens here so this could be consistent.

All I saw is this line and...

This happened before WOTC and we can not saw it on the game.Hence it is consistent.

this line appearing all the way in the reply.

Anything that happen before this WOTC of yours is your call. You can said anything you want. Like Squall and gang is propagators.And if being rebuttled in WOTC, you said you dun see them happening so they can be true.

You just copy and paste these two lines, how convienent, huh?

So we dun see Squall peeing so it is a possible that he dun pee at all?
and we dun see how babies are born in FF 8 does that mean they possibly drop from the sky.

And I dun bother quoting any more examples and I can even write other story with this crap you said and even my Hyne/Yu Yevon = "X" theory is ten times better than this trash you wrote.

This is worst than a fanfiction and even Ultros will have done better.

And BTW you still haven't prove me wrong and you promise you will answer the long rebuttle I posted earlier on and even they are not inconsistencies or whatever crap but you said you will answer.

And I will be off for a week or so, so take your time to come up with logical explainations. But I dun really expect much from you, it will be those two lines again.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 12:49 PM

Unknowns,in your case I don´t make promises.Nor I swear anything.The promise has nothing to do with your quest.

I understood,Squall of SeeD but I can´t realy go further than this.To show that my theories were right it would take a lifetime.This is because it´s not that I can proof a theory as per se.My theories depend on each other and their veracity depends on their relation and on game evidences.I proofed that Julia=Ulti but I can´t do the same with some other theories.They appear naturaly as a result of the relation between the proofed theories.And in the end when I saw everything as a whole I say-This makes perfect sense.The pieces of the puzzle are fitting each other and making a puzzle not contradicted by the game.To play FF8 is really like to made a puzzle.And this is so fun.
But the puzzle is not finished fortunately.I know there were things I had to research yet(and I thought many yet).But this is irrelevant.The most we reach the end of a puzzle the more easy it become and more easily we start to see the whole thing.Evidently we will only see the whole when we finish the puzzle.But we can had an innacurate idea before we finish.
I posted this theories on the forum as per se to see if you had the same sensibility to see the whole thingf.
That´s why I don´t proofed them at the same time.
I gradually put the theories and thanks to Lurker I was able to had a resume on the forums.
I was also hoping you would get it and help me to finish the game(i.e I provide and learn).I see no problem with this.
But you wrongly asked to proof my theories as per se.
However this can´t be always done on FF8.
This is not the right method to discover the hidden story behind FF8.

Sir Bahamut

08-01-2005, 01:15 PM

You haven't proved a single point of your theory, Future. Your so called arguments behind Julia = Ultimecia have been repeatedly shown to be flawed and simply BAD. As for your arguments behind the rest of your theory, they simply don't exist.

So any relationship between your theories and whatever you have proven simply don't exist either. Again though, I'll ask you to provide arguments behind your theory, If you see things as fitting in based off eachother, then start by providing arguments for the core assumption you're making, and demonstrate to the rest of us why the rest of your theory fits in perfectly with that core assumption.

If you cannot do this, I will assume it is because you cannot. And please, saying it'd take too long time is a poor excuse. Please don't say you're avoiding this argument because it'd take too much time. That's tantamount to admitting defeat.

Oh, and If you think I'm stupid for not seeing the outstanding nature of your theories, then consider it a good deed to enlighten me.

Christmas

08-01-2005, 01:49 PM

To show that my theories were right it would take a lifetime.
This is because it´s not that I can proof a theory as per se.My theories depend on each other and their veracity depends on their relation and on game evidences.I proofed that Julia=Ulti but I can´t do the same with some other theories.They appear naturaly as a result of the relation between the proofed theories.And in the end when I saw everything as a whole I say-This makes perfect sense.

Exactly like what I said before, isn't it?

He will said his theories can't be summarize and need to be supported by weaker theories which is needed to be support by even weaker theories which will take million of posts...blah,blah,blah...

And what is so freaking complicated that it will take a lifetime? You dun even need half of a lifetime to make the freaking game but you need a lifetime to understand the game???? Why dun you just send a letter to Square to tell them to verify it? It will certainly cut down a lot of time than a lifetime of your time pondering.

The pieces of the puzzle are fitting each other and making a puzzle not contradicted by the game.To play FF8 is really like to made a puzzle.And this is so fun.
But the puzzle is not finished fortunately.I know there were things I had to research yet(and I thought many yet).But this is irrelevant.The most we reach the end of a puzzle the more easy it become and more easily we start to see the whole thing.Evidently we will only see the whole when we finish the puzzle.But we can had an innacurate idea before we finish.

Look, it is not THE puzzle but it is YOUR puzzle. You set this little puzzle and you are now trying to finish your puzzle which in your point of view, you treated it as THE puzzle. You are the one that is trap in this little puzzle game of yours.

I posted this theories on the forum as per se to see if you had the same sensibility to see the whole thingf.
That´s why I don´t proofed them at the same time.
I gradually put the theories and thanks to Lurker I was able to had a resume on the forums.

Sorry dude. But everyone see what you are trying to tell and say but they can't see any sense it it.

I was also hoping you would get it and help me to finish the game(i.e I provide and learn).I see no problem with this.
But you wrongly asked to proof my theories as per se.
However this can´t be always done on FF8.
This is not the right method to discover the hidden story behind FF8.

You and me? Does the "me" mean ME!!????
Then your method is right?
And the hidden story is nothing more but YOUR story.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 02:03 PM

When I said lifetime it was far from being metaphorical.
It´s not just the time,you know.
I don´t really know how to show it right.I tried many strategies on the forums.
But I know that most of them(the theories) were right.

Does it never happen to you?
To know that something is right,had found evidence for it but never been able to explain why?
It´s possible.

And Squall of Seed,I not only show that there was internal consistency on my theories but also that they were consistent with the game.

Sir Bahamut

08-01-2005, 02:37 PM

*sigh*

Future, this is getting us nowhere. How about we just agree to stop discussing your theories alltogether. If you want to go around playing with this puzzle of yours, go ahead. But there is not a single person on this forum who consider your theories to be anything but complete rubbish. As such, there really isn't any point in any of us arguing about them.

So, what do you think. Stop arguing your theories forever?

Christmas

08-01-2005, 02:55 PM

And whatever decisions you make, dun push the responsibility to your brother.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 04:45 PM

Kakashi509

08-01-2005, 04:51 PM

I like your idea but it doesn't exactly work that way perhaps though there it's a part of the story line which has 2 meanings just like your picture 2 men or a vase yet theres 2 diffrent meanings

crazybayman

08-01-2005, 05:02 PM

Exactly,this is getting nowhere.I just hadn´t make this die because I had yet to fulfill my promise.But now I had fulfilled it and I will make this die.
Just one more thing:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Futuresthar/vase.gif

Is this a vase or two persons?

To say two persons is consistent with the pictures.To say a vase also.

But did the author intended one or the other interpretations?There is no way to proof he intended one or the other or both.

But the persons who already knew this picture know it is about optical illusions so both interpretations were intended.
Obviously there is one picture that our brain recognize better so the other vanishes unnoticed.

The same goes with FF8.It has a more visible story and a hidden alternative one.
There is a trememdous difference between this optical illusion, and Final Fantasy.

In the optical illusion, the author obviously, purposefully created this to show two things, the vase and the two heads.

Final Fantasy is not like this. Its a VIDEO GAME. Not an optical illusion, or a story with an obvious meaning and complex hidden meaning. Its A VIDEO GAME.

If you want to think otherwise, go ahead. But keep it to yourself, or at least keep it in the fanfiction forum.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 05:13 PM

The fact that this is a Video game don´t changes nothing.

crazybayman

08-01-2005, 05:50 PM

Just in your world.

Skyblade

08-01-2005, 06:27 PM

I think that Future Esthar used "lifetime" because anyone he was explaining the theories to would kill either themselves or him long before he finished.

Anyway, most posts against Future Esthar are ignored or rebutted with total nonsense that has nothing to do with what we are talking about: like that optical illusion. It relates in no way to either your arguement or the game. If you want a picture that compares to that, take the one in my sig. Let's compare that picture to the game. Most people see it as a picture of Squall and Rinoa. This is the equivalent of the views of most people in the game. Your theory is the equivalent of seeing it as a picture of Raijin and Fujin. Get the difference? It's not a case where it has two possible interpretations (like that optical illusion), it's a case which has one ridiculously obvious way of looking at it and one which is just ridiculous.

Of course, I doubt even imagery that obvious will get the idea through your head, so I will try for something that will:
THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS "PROOFED"!!!
The correct word for that situation is "proven", as in: You have not proven any of your theories.
Maybe I can get you to learn something by the time we're done here.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 06:37 PM

What part of "I will kill this thread" didn´t you hear Skyblade?

Isn´t that why I am going offtopic here?
Of course it is.

And show me proof that FF8 is not like that picture.

crazybayman

08-01-2005, 06:39 PM

And show me proof that FF8 is not like that picture.STFU
:twak:

Skyblade

08-01-2005, 06:42 PM

What part of "I will kill this thread" didn´t you hear Skyblade?

Isn´t that why I am going offtopic here?
Of course it is.

And show me proof that FF8 is not like that picture.

What part of "it's not that simple" don't you understand? This isn't your thread. The forums do not revolve around you. You don't have the right to shut the thread down. So follow crazybayman's advice and let us get on with logical conversation.

I tried to show you. But, as I suspected, your skull is too thick to realize the obvious truth.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 06:49 PM

Up to today I never saw the thruth proofed so?

To Kill the thread mean not replying too much more time.That´s what I mean.

Skyblade

08-01-2005, 06:56 PM

Up to today I never saw the thruth proofed so?

To Kill the thread mean not replying too much more time.That´s what I mean.

Aha, see, now we have proof that you're just a troll. There's no way you could have missed my remark about the word "proofed" (which wasn't even my first remark about it when dealing with your theories). So there was not reason for you to use it again except to try to piss me off. Instead, I can quite happily ignore you, since I now know that no amount of logic will get to you. It's a good day.

Sir Bahamut

08-01-2005, 07:00 PM

Please, let's all let this thread die. Future has agreed that we will always disagree on this, so let's not drag this out any more. Let's just let it die.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 07:02 PM

It was a mistake my friend.
Don´t you make mistakes?

Kakashi509

08-01-2005, 07:09 PM

how about you stop arguing and try to figure out the task at hand, if you don't have enough logic to figure out that proofed isn't a word and is told it's not and you still use it it shows that you have no insentive to try to figure out the problem or make a logical theory worth listening to.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 08:03 PM

Hello.It was a mistake.I know "proofed" isn´t a word.Skyblade taught me that.
It was a distraction.Duuuuuh. :p

Squall of SeeD

08-01-2005, 09:07 PM

Exactly,this is getting nowhere.I just hadn´t make this die because I had yet to fulfill my promise.But now I had fulfilled it and I will make this die.
Just one more thing:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Futuresthar/vase.gif

Is this a vase or two persons?

To say two persons is consistent with the pictures.To say a vase also.

But did the author intended one or the other interpretations?There is no way to proof he intended one or the other or both.

There's a difference between showing someone something and letting them make of it what they will, and showing someone something and telling them what it is. The latter is what happened in the story.

In any event, please people, drop the damn "proofed" thing. He now knows he was saying it wrong. For that matter, let's now let the whole damn thing drop. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the picture thing.

Future Esthar

08-01-2005, 10:07 PM

Thanks,Squall of Seed.
And I just telled people my own interpretation.
It´s Square themselves that show the picture who had many interpretations.

Skyblade

08-02-2005, 06:22 AM

Hello.It was a mistake.I know "proofed" isn´t a word.Skyblade taught me that.
It was a distraction.Duuuuuh. :p

I taught him something! Yay! Yipee! Woo hoo!

Kilika

08-02-2005, 09:09 AM

None of these make any sense at all. None of them. It is over reaching. VERY over reaching. Now don't start to BS me saying my mind is closed and what not like you did before Future, but your theories, such as the Propagators being the main characters in disguise......it just doesn't make any sense. None of it does. Neither does your proof. Im sorry for being negative but....well listen to everyone else here. I mean i started cracking up when I read that Irvine and Selphie are Squalls parents...it was just too much for me to handle because it was obviously just insane. You keep saying it would take you forever to explain everything you want to say, but doesn't that mean that Square would have taken forever to make the game if all of it was true? All of the events would have had to been precise enough to reveal what was in the game yet hiding all of these ideas that are popping out of your head. It would be impossible to make such a game...

Skyblade

08-02-2005, 04:29 PM

Kilika

08-03-2005, 12:11 AM

oh ok sorry

G SpOtZ

08-03-2005, 12:33 AM

i always thought future esthar was making bogus funny theories just because he wanted everybody to get rowled up and annoyed. also i always thought he was kidding, but trying to make it look like he completely understood his own theories and believed them. how can anybody possibly seriously believe his theories? lol. oh well.

Dr. Casey

08-04-2005, 03:59 AM

To be perfectly honest, Future's theories make complete sense to me.

G SpOtZ

08-04-2005, 04:56 AM

they CAN make sense, if u overlook the storyline and make ur own interpretations. That's what he does. they COULD make sense, but u gotta get WAY out there, and think way too far beyond what the designers were thinking. but it's not meant to be that complicated. sometimes it's fun making it complicated just because there's more to discuss

Squall of SeeD

08-04-2005, 07:54 AM

Jesus, guys, drop it, please? Even he dropped it. There's no reason to keep telling him that he's wrong when he's agreed to stop discussing it. Who are you even talking to at this point?

Future Esthar

08-06-2005, 09:04 PM

Ah,finally someone to agree with my theories.I am encouraged to continue due to him.
This Dr.Casey sure have guts.It´s good to know I am not alone.

Dr. Casey

08-07-2005, 03:43 PM

Well, I am known as the bravest man who ever lived for a reason. Just ask Skyblade... our paths have crossed in the past...

Future Esthar

08-07-2005, 08:29 PM

Explain it to me Skyblade,please.
By the way,Dr Casey would you mind if I send you a PM?

Dr. Casey

08-08-2005, 02:06 AM

'Course not. Anyone's free to send me random PM's whenever. Not like I have to answer right away if I don't want to. :p