Bug or not?

[Future Esthar]

Just wanna to hear your opibnion.

[TheAbominatrix]

edit: Now there's a poll here. I hate when it does that -_-;

Passes over them? I assume that's what you mean. Dunno really... probably just overlooked by the programmers.

[Jessweeee♪]

No... it's just to keep you from waltzing in there with the garden before you're supposed to.

[disapointedchild]

No, just something that happens.

[Future Esthar]

Now,this becomes more interesthing than I thought.
Are you all saying this is not a bug?
That´s strange coming from you.

I am not talking about the Trabia Crater but the holographic walls of Esthar.

[TheAbominatrix]

A bug is an unintentional glitch in the game. No, it's not a bug, it doesnt cause any problems. It's either a) intentional programming made to keep the garden out, as Jesse1 suggested or b) a simple oversight.

And that's all I'll say on the subject, I'm not going to wait around for the bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif 'because of this, Squall is really Rinoa who once made love to Peter Frampton' theories that will no doubt show at any time.

[crazybayman]

How could it be a bug if its conviniently placed around Esthar, and only Esthar. Its the barrier that shields Esthar from the outside world. Maybe its military defences, I dunno. Esthar is the big, advanced "mystery" country to the East. Its just there to prevent outsiders from peering in.

When you go to Esthar over the bridge, with Rinoa on your back, its a huge hologram. You can't see it, except for that little ladder that leads into "nowhere" (you see it after defeating the Abadon). Obviously there is some kind of barrier here. I think that this is the Barrier you see from the world map. And you can fly over it because the Ragnarok IS a spaceship, and therefore if need be can fly out of the atmosphere, and down into Esthar. And of course once out of the atmosphere, you can fly down into Esthar, because how else would the Lunar Gate work?

[TheAbominatrix]

Excellent explination, crazybayman, glad I came back to read it. It's been way too long since I've played the game. Good job <3

*goes back to not paying attention before Selphie = Micheal Jackson*

[Future Esthar]

You don´t understood the question.I know that.

"The Ragnarok overpasses the holographic walls of Esthar.What do you think?A bug?"

I must appologize my bad english.
I mean PASS THROUGH the holographic walls as a "ghost".

[crazybayman]

Thanks Abdominatrix. :)


You don´t understood the question.I know that.

"The Ragnarok overpasses the holographic walls of Esthar.What do you think?A bug?"

I must appologize my bad english.
I mean PASS THROUGH the holographic walls as a "ghost".

I'm pretty sure the Ragnarok does not fly "through" the barrier. It flies over it. If you fly the Ragnarok at ground level, I doubt you'll be able to get into Esthar (I've never tried it, but I doubt you can). You have to increase your elevation, and go over top of the barrier.

And even if you could fly through, maybe it is due to the fact that it is just a hologram.

I'll have to give it a whirl when I get home.

[Future Esthar]

You know,with a little touch I even stationed the Ragnarok "inside" the wall.

And the Ragnarok pass through the wall at every height.

And it is a SOLID hologram(which means is more like a giant TV set in which a film is formed with different glass hexagonal display).

[crazybayman]

:rolleyes2

[boys from the dwarf]

i wouldnt like to go through the great salt lake every time i wanted to go to esthar.its just convinient not a bug at all.and seems as youve already found it ,it makes sense that it appears.

[Future Esthar]

When you go home try to do also this experience.To stationed the Ragnarok on the middle of the wall.

[Jessweeee♪]

I never tried it. I think maybe it's just a very weak barrier and the ragnarok is too strong for it. Also when the airstation contacted squall and rinoa out in space they probably fixed it so it could get through.

[Future Esthar]

Are you saying there is a hole that opens and close automatically every time the Ragnarok passes?
But it don´t explain why you can stationed the Ragnarok on the middle of the wall.
You know,when you stationed the Ragnarok pass through the wall VERTICALLY and remains on it´s middle on the ground.

[Jessweeee♪]

Are you saying there is a hole that opens and close automatically every time the Ragnarok passes?

Yes.

[XxSephirothxX]

You're talking about a videogame here. Haven't you ever played a game, such as a first person shooter, where your character's or another character's hand passes through a wall? It's a problem with a lot of early 3D games. That's all there is to it, I'd say.

[Future Esthar]

So you say this is a bug,Right?

[Squall of SeeD]

Future's right about being able to fly the Ragnarok through the wall, wheras you can't walk through it. The game was probably programmed not to let anything but the Ragnarok through, so as to prevent possibly screwing up the story if someone found a way to get the Garden over there.

[XxSephirothxX]

I suppose you could consider it a bug. It's the type of thing that happens a lot in games, though not as much now as it did in Nintendo 64 and Playstation games. I don't know much about coding, but my guess is that the developers simly didn't make an object un-passable. For instance, in the old Mario Kart 64, if you rammed one cart into another, you could knock it through the wall. It's really quite a common problem in 3D titles, and not one to overanalyze.

[boys from the dwarf]

question one.who cares?
question two.does it realy matter that much?
question three.can someone close the second thread he made about this?one is enough.

[G SpOtZ]

i completely agree with boys from the dwarf lol. i think this isn't worth being a topic to argue or discuss about, because it's probably just something that the game designers decided is not important, and ur not even supposed to think about it lol. it's just there. no importance to it, no bug, no meaning. just something to make the game not a pain in the @$$ lol.

[assemblage]

Future's right about being able to fly the Ragnarok through the wall, wheras you can't walk through it. The game was probably programmed not to let anything but the Ragnarok through, so as to prevent possibly screwing up the story if someone found a way to get the Garden over there.
correct me if i'm wrong, but the only barriers i remember are the ones on the edge of the continent, and it's not like you could just waltz off the continent if they weren't there. i think they were intentionally left up by the programmers to remind you that Esthar is still sealed off from the rest of the world even though Squall and the others got through with no trouble. i can understand what SoSD is talking about though.

[Squall of SeeD]

Future's right about being able to fly the Ragnarok through the wall, wheras you can't walk through it. The game was probably programmed not to let anything but the Ragnarok through, so as to prevent possibly screwing up the story if someone found a way to get the Garden over there.
correct me if i'm wrong, but the only barriers i remember are the ones on the edge of the continent, and it's not like you could just waltz off the continent if they weren't there. i think they were intentionally left up by the programmers to remind you that Esthar is still sealed off from the rest of the world even though Squall and the others got through with no trouble. i can understand what SoSD is talking about though.

They go along the perimeter of the continent, yes, and while they most certainly were left up to remind the player of that, it is kind of odd that the player can fly through them with the Ragnarok, but not walk through them. That's why I think it's most likely that the Ragnarok was the only thing programmed to pass through, just in case the player found a way there somehow.

[boys from the dwarf]

i completely agree with boys from the dwarf lol. i think this isn't worth being a topic to argue or discuss about, because it's probably just something that the game designers decided is not important, and ur not even supposed to think about it lol. it's just there. no importance to it, no bug, no meaning. just something to make the game not a pain in the @$$ lol.
:bgl: :up: :thumb: :upsidedow :up: .i agree completely :) .

[Future Esthar]

It´s important because of the story itself.The question is not the error in the proggraming sense but the error on the context of the story.Why would Square make an impossible situation just to let us enter Esthar more easily?
That would make no sense.After all the Ragnarok can pass over the wall so there is no need for this.

And the second poll is not a copy.I changed an important word.Since you voted without understanding the question itself a new poll was needed.
I will delete THIS ONE if you want.

[Jessweeee♪]

Do you think this pointless topic will close if we all just say it is a bug?

[rubah]

I think the ragnarok is perfectly able to go through barriers. It can go through atmospheres at blazing speeds, and it even broke through teh shields on the lunatic pandora, as I've pointed out at some point xD

[Sir Bahamut]

The shield on the Lunatic Pandora is not comparable to the Esthar barrier because while the former is some sort of energy field, the latter is a solid construction consisting of metal(?) plates.

The real reason behind this oddity is almost certainly what has been stated before: a programming convenience.

[rubah]

It sure looks like an energy field *outside* of the glowing plates, watching that fmv again.

Considering how it's bright blue and translucent. and that ragna starts shooting again *after* it goes through it.

[assemblage]

The shield on the Lunatic Pandora is not comparable to the Esthar barrier because while the former is some sort of energy field, the latter is a solid construction consisting of metal(?) plates.
actually, i thought it was an energy field, like a hologram sorta thing. i mean, the plates are there, yeah, but i just don't think it's metal.

[crazybayman]

Another thing.......the Ragnarok was engineered and built in Esthar. Its wouldn't surprise me if Esthar built their spaceship with the technology that allowed it to pass through their barriers.

For instance, maybe the Ragnarok alters the frequency of its shields to match the frequency of the energy field around Esthar so that it can pass through. (Kinda like in Star Trek, when "Picard/Janeway/Cisco/etc" has to fight an enemy for the first time, if they can't penetrate the shields right away, they sometimes find a way to alter their weapon frequencies to match that of the enemy's shields, so they penetrate the shields.) It IS a high-tech space ship, after all.

There are many possibilities. Something like what I stated above, or a proramming convenience. I certainly don't think its a "bug". It doesn't seem like a bug, the way the ship passes so flawlessly through the barrier, as if it wasn't even there.

[Big D]

The holographic wall around Esthar is a physical barrier, made of variable camouflage plates.

The Ragnarok seems to fly 'through' the barrier, but the World Map is not drawn to scale. If you fly at ground level, it doesn't work (so far as I recall). Obviously, the ship is actually going over the barrier. The barrier has a finite height, after all; it isn't an all-encompassing dome.

The Garden can't even get onto the Esthar continent, so the entire debate is pointless. The Garden CANNOT land on Esthar; that continent has no beaches.

[assemblage]

The Garden can't even get onto the Esthar continent, so the entire debate is pointless. The Garden CANNOT land on Esthar; that continent has no beaches.
i think what Squall of SeeD meant was that somehow in the beginning of the story, you could find a way to get to the continent, not necessarily getting the Garden over there, but maybe parking the Garden next to the FH bridge and walking across to the Esthar area. i never tried that before, but some smart person might be able to actually get over there. in the event of that happening, it would jump from, oh, say, going to Trabia to getting Rinoa out of a coma, when she isn't in one at that point in the game. you may not understand what i just said, (hell, i don't) but just run with it :laughing:

[Big D]

I see what you mean, yeah. That barrier is only about 10-15 meters high, so both vehicles could easily fly over it. But because it's only 10-15 meters high, when you're travelling on the World Map it just looks like the ship is passing through it.

Not really a bug, just a means of not wasting time for the player:p

[assemblage]

yeah, that makes sense, since like you said, the world map isn't really drawn to scale. (i realized that when i walked to Balamb and Squall was as tall as the town itself :confused: )

[Future Esthar]

Yeah,that´s interesting.
Do you remember being on Lunar Gate and being able to see the city at a distance?
And then when you get out you can not really see the the city because it´s too distant.It also shows the world map is not at scale.
And when you were at the desert crossroad between the missile base and the desert station it looks like the way to the missile base was straight but in the world map there is a gulf between the desert and the base.That was funny.


I see what you mean, yeah. That barrier is only about 10-15 meters high, so both vehicles could easily fly over it. But because it's only 10-15 meters high, when you're travelling on the World Map it just looks like the ship is passing through it.

Actually if you try to enter Esthar with the Garden THROUGH GRANDIDI FOREST it is able to fly over the floor.However it will not pass through the wall.One can try this even on the second disk.So it seems that the Garden can´t pass and you are wrong.
By the way,the Garden can´t fly.It just floats some meters from the floor.And it don´t looks like 10 to 15 meters.
By the way one can really land the Ragnarok on the middle of the barrier.
And if what you say makes sense why is it that the Ragnarok can´t pass through the mountains even knowing they weren´t at scale?

You know,internal consistency is needed on the world map also.It don´t cease to exist just because the world map is not at scale.


Another thing.......the Ragnarok was engineered and built in Esthar. Its wouldn't surprise me if Esthar built their spaceship with the technology that allowed it to pass through their barriers.

For instance, maybe the Ragnarok alters the frequency of its shields to match the frequency of the energy field around Esthar so that it can pass through. (Kinda like in Star Trek, when "Picard/Janeway/Cisco/etc" has to fight an enemy for the first time, if they can't penetrate the shields right away, they sometimes find a way to alter their weapon frequencies to match that of the enemy's shields, so they penetrate the shields.) It IS a high-tech space ship, after all.

There are many possibilities. Something like what I stated above, or a proramming convenience. I certainly don't think its a "bug". It doesn't seem like a bug, the way the ship passes so flawlessly through the barrier, as if it wasn't even there.

I am sure it isn´t a bug and agree that there was an Esthar technology that enables the ship to pass through the wall.It is a technology that only applies to the Ragnarok,not the wall.
The Ragnarok must have an internal mapping which helps it to recognize it´s relative location on the world map (kinda like a GPS).
That´s what make it possible to have automatic pilot.
This tecnology activates automatically when the ship approach the wall.
The ship recognize the position of the wall when it approaches it.
I believe this technology applies to nearly every vehicle on FF8 (except the low advanced trains of Galbadia and maybe some boats).The high advanced trains of Galbadia differs on the low ones on this technology (and speed and comfort,etc...).

But I really don´t believe that this technology is just about overpassing a solid wall.
It is something much deeper and too relevant to the storyline.

Ah,Ah,Ah,Ah,Ah,Ah,Ah.... :D
It´s not intuitive.

[Sir Bahamut]

*hits head against wall*

And then the peace was broken...

[Craig]

question one.who cares?
question two.does it realy matter that much?
question three.can someone close the second thread he made about this?one is enough.

I love the way you can come into other peoples' threads and tell everybody how much the thread has no relevance, instead of talking about the topic at hand.

[Future Esthar]

agreed

[assemblage]

perhaps i should go to all of the threads BFTD has made and post the same thing in each one...? oohhhh, evil thoughts, evil thoughts.....

[G SpOtZ]

the programmers just didn't want it to be a pain. it makes the game a lil easier if you can just go THROUGH the wall instead of trying to make it over it and making things even more complicated. it's just an unimportant part of the game. anybody can interpret it the way they want, but it won't make a difference. It's just a random part of the game to not make it a pain in the ass. that's all.

[crazybayman]

If you fly at ground level, it doesn't work (so far as I recall).
That's what I thought. Just give it a try next chance you get. It does fly through as if it wasn't there, even at ground level.

However, I'm sure it is still NOT a bug, nor does it have any relevance. Just a programming convienience, or a result of advanced technology built into the Ragarok.


The holographic wall around Esthar is a physical barrier, made of variable camouflage plates.
Where is there indication of camouflage plates in the game?

[Sir Bahamut]

When you cross the Great Salt Lake you end up seeing a ladder attached to what appears to be nothing. Climbing up and inside brings you beyond the camouflage, and it becomes clear that the camouflage is many plates. Just check out Future Esthars "beatifull" topic for a picture of one of the plates.

[crazybayman]

When you cross the Great Salt Lake you end up seeing a ladder attached to what appears to be nothing. Climbing up and inside brings you beyond the camouflage, and it becomes clear that the camouflage is many plates. Just check out Future Esthars "beatifull" topic for a picture of one of the plates.

OK......gotcha.

[liamo]

they have star trek stuff on the ragnarock that lets them pass through plus its a esthar built thing so it would stand to reason that they could pass through their own defences.

[Big D]

they have star trek stuff on the ragnarock that lets them pass throughSpatial interphase generator?

[Future Esthar]

The tecnology used by the Ragnarok to pass through the holographic walls is something important to understand all of the storyline.
As I said earlier nearly all of the vehicles of FF8 uses this technology.
However very few people on the game knows this.
Also every vehicle mentioned above has an internal electronical mapping.
The missiles and the "rockets" on Lunar Gate also use this technology.
The missiles were said to hit their targets with astounding accuracy even without the use of radio waves.
How can this be?
It´s simple.
When you upload the coordinates on the missile base you are just passing the information of the program to the internal memory of the missiles.
These information control their movements as what happens with computorized robots.

Sometimes things that looked unimportant at first glance reveals to be the most important ones.Square knows this is the best method to keep secrets.

[Jessweeee♪]

I don't think it's a secret worth keeping. The ragnarok can pass through the barrier. Whoopdedoo.

[Big D]

The ragnarok can pass through the barrier.Either that, or the in-game image of the Ragnarok can pass through the image of the barrier as it is represented on the World Map.

The World Map cannot be treated as a literal representation of what's there. If you believed everything you saw on the World Map, then you'd have to believe that Squall is taller than most buildings, and a vehicle can be larger than a village.
The fact that the Ragnarok appears to go through the barrier is, to me, obviously just a convenience. The barrier, if it was shown to scale, would be absolutely miniscule - so no point wasting time and patience by making the player ascend every time they go into Esthar. Of course, some people point out that you can't fly through mountains. However, mountains are far larger than the barrier, to the extent that they actually matter from a navigational point of view. The barrier, on the other hand, is at most 10-15 meters high, so the Ragnarok would have to be flying pretty darn low to actually hit it.
Anyone else noticed that, if you fly or "park" near a forest, some of the trees can pass through the Ragnarok? Same explanation, I think.The missiles were said to hit their targets with astounding accuracy even without the use of radio waves.
How can this be?
It´s simple.
When you upload the coordinates on the missile base you are just passing the information of the program to the internal memory of the missiles.
These information control their movements as what happens with computorized robots. This is hardly a totally confidential secret or anything. When the missiles are heading toward Balamb, they look around with mechanical "eyes" - cameras that scan the landscape to look for the target.

[G SpOtZ]

the ragnarok is a big red ship/plane O_O

[Christmas]

The tecnology used by the Ragnarok to pass through the holographic walls is something important to understand all of the storyline.

Oh really? Just because Ragnarok can pass through the holographic wall is so important which enable us to understand all of the storyline. Care to share some of your views?


As I said earlier nearly all of the vehicles of FF8 uses this technology.
However very few people on the game knows this.
Also every vehicle mentioned above has an internal electronical mapping.

So, do the cars you rent at those towns or the buses in Deling have this internal electronical mapping too?


Sometimes things that looked unimportant at first glance reveals to be the most important ones.

Ya, so Squall might be a pervert when he keep the magazine "The Girl Next Door"? :mad:


Square knows this is the best method to keep secrets.

You are trying to sound like Square is actually a sercetive and mysterious organizations that is full of secrets in their games and they made it so secretive that no one can find out except you maybe?

But since it is meant to be so secretive that no one should know, Square should remove the secret from the game before it is release so no one can find the secret.

[G SpOtZ]

The tecnology used by the Ragnarok to pass through the holographic walls is something important to understand all of the storyline.

Oh really? Just because Ragnarok can pass through the holographic wall is so important which enable us to understand all of the storyline. Care to share some of your views?


As I said earlier nearly all of the vehicles of FF8 uses this technology.
However very few people on the game knows this.
Also every vehicle mentioned above has an internal electronical mapping.

So, do the cars you rent at those towns or the buses in Deling have this internal electronical mapping too?


Sometimes things that looked unimportant at first glance reveals to be the most important ones.

Ya, so Squall might be a pervert when he keep the magazine "The Girl Next Door"? :mad:


Square knows this is the best method to keep secrets.

You are trying to sound like Square is actually a sercetive and mysterious organizations that is full of secrets in their games and they made it so secretive that no one can find out except you maybe?

But since it is meant to be so secretive that no one should know, Square should remove the secret from the game before it is release so no one can find the secret.
be my valentine.

[Skyblade]

The tecnology used by the Ragnarok to pass through the holographic walls is something important to understand all of the storyline.

Oh really? Just because Ragnarok can pass through the holographic wall is so important which enable us to understand all of the storyline. Care to share some of your views?


As I said earlier nearly all of the vehicles of FF8 uses this technology.
However very few people on the game knows this.
Also every vehicle mentioned above has an internal electronical mapping.

So, do the cars you rent at those towns or the buses in Deling have this internal electronical mapping too?


Sometimes things that looked unimportant at first glance reveals to be the most important ones.

Ya, so Squall might be a pervert when he keep the magazine "The Girl Next Door"? :mad:


Square knows this is the best method to keep secrets.

You are trying to sound like Square is actually a sercetive and mysterious organizations that is full of secrets in their games and they made it so secretive that no one can find out except you maybe?

But since it is meant to be so secretive that no one should know, Square should remove the secret from the game before it is release so no one can find the secret.

I agree with most of this. But, please, never again ask Future Esthar to "share his views"... He's too likely to take you up on your offer...

Anyway, the idea that it is Esthar technology that let's the Ragnarok pass through the wall is obviously flawed. For one thing, why would they bother giving it the ability to pass through the wall? The thing's a frelling spaceship. If it was a diplomatic vessel capable of nothing but low altitude flight, then they would have a reason to let it through the wall. As it was, they had no reason to give their spaceship the ability to fly through the wall. If a need for it arose on the other side of the wall (and they had no reason to think that such a need would arise), it could fly over it. Also, if they were giving all Esthar vehicles access codes to the wall, why can't the Gardens fly through it? The Gardens were made in Esthar, remember?! So why wouldn't they be able to pass through as well?

[Christmas]

But, please, never again ask Future Esthar to "share his views"...

Well, I really sick of the "riddles" and half finished statement which leave you to guess what is the other half is about. Like what he said earlier that Ragnarok passing through holographic wall allow us to understand the storyline but never tell us how and leave us guessing again. And regardless of what, he is still going to come up with a theory since he already got this thread up nice and hot.

To Future:

So be straightforward and said how do it allow us to understand the storyline.


The Gardens were made in Esthar, remember?!

Didn't the ancient Centra people made the shelters?

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5933/centrashelter2re.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=centrashelter2re.jpg)

[Skyblade]

The Gardens were made in Esthar, remember?!

Didn't the ancient Centra people made the shelters?

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5933/centrashelter2re.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=centrashelter2re.jpg)

Well, there is a point in the game in Esthar where one of the citizens asks how you got there. If you tell him "I took the Garden here", he asks to see it, because it was made in Esthar...

[Sir Bahamut]

I think you're confused. You can't take the Garden to Esthar anyway. However, in FH, there is an old man who wants to see it, because the techicians at FH painted it or something...

[G SpOtZ]

OMG THE GARDEN CAN FLY!?

[Skyblade]

I think you're confused. You can't take the Garden to Esthar anyway. However, in FH, there is an old man who wants to see it, because the techicians at FH painted it or something...

There is a citizen in Esthar who asks you how you got there. You have several options. They include "I walked here", in which case the person says "Oh, you must have been to FH", and "I took the Garden here", which prompts the person to say "Really? Could I see it? They were made in Esthar. ...I knew you were lying (when you can't show it to him".

[Sir Bahamut]

Ah, my apologies.

[Big D]

There is a citizen in Esthar who asks you how you got there. You have several options. They include "I walked here", in which case the person says "Oh, you must have been to FH", and "I took the Garden here", which prompts the person to say "Really? Could I see it? They were made in Esthar. ...I knew you were lying (when you can't show it to him".That Esthar citizen is sadly deluded. The Gardens were made by the Centra civilisation, the advanced culture destroyed by the Lunar Cry 80 years ago. Esthar likes to think that it's the greatest place ever, though, so they try to take credit for technological wonders like the Gardens.

[ThePheonix]

You are starting to sound like Future Esthar! The only proof for the barrier being metalic plates is that when you go to Esthar you run into an entrance - a building that is slightly poping out of the holographic barrier (I would think the building should be solid, as you can climb into it) and it is the only place where you cee ripples in the field, not anywhere else, only where the entrance is (the ladder and the entrance).

You can't go in on the garden because you seem to be flying into a mountain, but the Raganrok can fly through the hologram.

[Skyblade]

Actually, I really doubt that they are nothing but holograms. For one thing, when you see the plates stacked up, they seem to be metallic plates that can change their color depending on the programs given to them. You don't hang holograms up on racks by the hundreds. Also, when the doorway opens up that first lets you into Esthar, it looks like something opening, not as though a hologram was just turned off. What's more, if it was just a hologram, you would be able to just walk through it at any time. Holograms are insubstantial.

[Christmas]

There is a citizen in Esthar who asks you how you got there. You have several options. They include "I walked here", in which case the person says "Oh, you must have been to FH", and "I took the Garden here", which prompts the person to say "Really? Could I see it? They were made in Esthar. ...I knew you were lying (when you can't show it to him".

Pretty interesting.

One of my deductions is he knew you were lying so he lie along with you?

The other of my deductions is....Well, I remember that the people from the Galbadian continent and Esthar originated from Centra as told here.

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/3749/centrahistory1tm.th.png (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=centrahistory1tm.png)

The Centra people used gardens as their transport to Esthar and settled there. So it can also be a possibility that they continued producing gardens there but it is still the Centra people that started with the garden in the first place. Correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway, I am really curious to know how it let us understand the whole storyline by knowing this.

[crazybayman]

You are trying to sound like Square is actually a sercetive and mysterious organizations that is full of secrets in their games and they made it so secretive that no one can find out except you maybe?
So true!!
I said this in one of those retarded earlier threads, and I"ll say it again. FE's whole charade of trying to uncover Square's secrets in FFVIII is exactly like the movie "A Beautiful Mind". Russel Crowe (who played the guy with Schizophrenia) thought that there was an enemy military organization, who relayed code to their allies through characters (letters and numbers) in newspaper clippings.

So Crowe's character was continuously on this mad hunt throught newspapers, cutting them out, marking them up to link "the secret code", and posting them up all over his shed, trying to find out where the "enemy" would strike next. His imaginary friend/ally, played by Ed Harris, was supposedly a general in their own military, who had Crowe under his supervision.

FE's hunt for "the truth" seems to be very similar.

So here's my theory:

FE actually IS Russel Crowe, who because of his intense role in a Beautiful Mind, has given himself Schizophrenia, and thinks that Square is actually a top-secret military organization (as well as video-game developers), who have passed a secret message to FE through FFVIII, that only FE can read. It is FE's job to now crack the code, and pass it along to all his fellow EoFFers, who are to train to become a top secret strike force (all wielding gunblades, no less), to strike back against the evil Laotian Government, who are actually plotting to attack Square headquarters in Japan, because Laos is actually jealous of Japan and their superior software and game developers.

[Christmas]

who played the guy with Schizophrenia

Alright, let's not piss him off again....the last time when someone tell him to go see a psychiatrist he already make a ruckus about it.....

[crazybayman]

who played the guy with Schizophrenia

Alright, let's not piss him off again....the last time when someone tell him to go see a psychiatrist he already make a ruckus about it.....
hehehe :p

He has it coming!! What with the foolishness he gets on with? Really..... :p

[liamo]

eeem i'm confused are we still talking about ships passing through walls or have we gone into a whole new thing?

[sparkie]

You are trying to sound like Square is actually a sercetive and mysterious organizations that is full of secrets in their games and they made it so secretive that no one can find out except you maybe?
So true!!
I said this in one of those retarded earlier threads, and I"ll say it again. FE's whole charade of trying to uncover Square's secrets in FFVIII is exactly like the movie "A Beautiful Mind". Russel Crowe (who played the guy with Schizophrenia) thought that there was an enemy military organization, who relayed code to their allies through characters (letters and numbers) in newspaper clippings.

So Crowe's character was continuously on this mad hunt throught newspapers, cutting them out, marking them up to link "the secret code", and posting them up all over his shed, trying to find out where the "enemy" would strike next. His imaginary friend/ally, played by Ed Harris, was supposedly a general in their own military, who had Crowe under his supervision.

FE's hunt for "the truth" seems to be very similar.

So here's my theory:

FE actually IS Russel Crowe, who because of his intense role in a Beautiful Mind, has given himself Schizophrenia, and thinks that Square is actually a top-secret military organization (as well as video-game developers), who have passed a secret message to FE through FFVIII, that only FE can read. It is FE's job to now crack the code, and pass it along to all his fellow EoFFers, who are to train to become a top secret strike force (all wielding gunblades, no less), to strike back against the evil Laotian Government, who are actually plotting to attack Square headquarters in Japan, because Laos is actually jealous of Japan and their superior software and game developers.

From an older thread (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=51618):

Yes,but i didn´t changed the letters at random.
In Latin sometimes the letter U appears as V.For example:JULIUS=JVLIVS
In capital letters we write i as I.Otherwise L is read as l.
For the H the explanation is a little more farfetched.
We just have to look and see that H is the assimptotic limit of M when the two diagonal lines of the middle tends to be only one horizontal line in the middle of the two vertical lines.
Convinced?No?
Consider the phrase JHEIIE HDIEU
It is less probable to find a sense word changing just a couple of few letters than to find it chamging all.
In the last case we have 26^11 possible combinations of letters and 26 ^11 ways of change it.
So the probability is 1.
In the first case we have (11 6)*26^6 favourable cases ((11 6) represents the 7th coefficient of the the Newton binom (a+b)^11).
And we have 26^11 possible compinations of the 11 letters.
So the probability is (11 6)/26^5 wich is much more little than1.
And if we consider changing the letters to similar ones then the probability is aproximately 1/26^11.
I am sorry if the calculations are wrong.I am not good in interpreting probabilities.
But I am sure the latter case is more favourable
So if the probability to find is so little and I found it then it couldn´t be a mere coincidence.
I'm not going to say anything.

[Christmas]

............:sweatdrop

And why not dun post the link? Cause someone might revive the thread and.....

[crazybayman]

From an older thread (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=51618):
Whoa. Uncanny. Thanks Sparkie.

Also, this post from the same thread.


I also like you Necronopticous and everyone on this forum.
I am good on math,however not in the Probability Sector.
The meanings are "Junction Machine Ellone" and "MD Level"
By the way,there is a lot of word play in Final Fantasy VIII.
They help you to unlock mysteries in the game.
Here are some:
Cid-"The Garden is ready to go anytime"
Man in Lunar Gate-"You are there by the time you woke up"
Man in Dollet-"You have a good eye for my craftsmanship (craftsman ship)"
Squall inside the holographic walls of Esthar-"I don´t have time for this,we need to save Rinoa" or something along these lines.
The word "time" appears many many times in the game.
And we have word play with peoples and places names:
VinZer DElINg
DOllEt
cID kramEr
DObE
The inverse of Kramer is Remark = Re+Mark which refers to the kid you save in the confront between the Gardens.
ODEll Burk
Orlan
DINcht
etc
Which further "proofs" my "theory" :p

[sparkie]

I wonder where he wandered off to anyway...

And should I get rid of the link before mayhem ensues?

[crazybayman]

I wonder where he wandered off to anyway...

And should I get rid of the link before mayhem ensues?
Nah.......

Its finally pieces together a puzzle that actually makes sense! :p

[Skyblade]

I wonder where he wandered off to anyway...

And should I get rid of the link before mayhem ensues?
Nah.......

Its finally pieces together a puzzle that actually makes sense! :p

What? The Future Esthar is a psychotic nutcase? We knew that already...

[sparkie]

Oh good now my psychiatrist comment doesn't seem so bad. :p

[crazybayman]

What? The Future Esthar is a psychotic nutcase? We knew that already...
Yes.....

However, now we have given him an accurate diagnosis. :p

[brother's bigger brother]

Esthar's technolage mean the ragnarok can past through it ( sorry i cant spell words longer than 8 letters cause an stupid)

[sparkie]

Huh? o_0

Nice sig btw...

[Jessweeee♪]

WHY in the WORLD would square want to keep a secret like this? nvm, don't answer that. It's pointless. It doesn't have anything to do with the story.

[ThePheonix]

A hologram can work as a phycological barrier, such that, for example you would not try to walk through a mountain; and I remember someone saying that Esthar was a "continent surounded by mountains".

I haven't played that part in over 2 years, so I'll play it and get back with my findings / conclusions...

Anyways, the thing at the lake and the barrier could be different technologies (Futere Esthar, try flying through that exact spot where you enter Esthar).

[Skyblade]

A hologram can work as a phycological barrier, such that, for example you would not try to walk through a mountain; and I remember someone saying that Esthar was a "continent surounded by mountains".

Yes, but you can't touch a hologram. Squall touched it and said "there's something there".

[ThePheonix]

He touched the building behind/inside the hologram; I'll get back to you about that after I replay some parts...

[fantasyjunkie]

It could be a diabolical plot by some programmer to drive gamers into fits of conspiracy mania :eek: nahhhhh :D

[Skyblade]

He touched the building behind/inside the hologram; I'll get back to you about that after I replay some parts...

If there is a solid object there, the Ragnarok couldn't fly through it... :rolleyes2

[liamo]

ah holograme is just lights its not even a solid objectmaybe thats why it could fly through it now can we get back to making fun of FE?

[Sir Bahamut]

ThePheonix: You are forgetting the plates. Within the barrier, Squall and Co see one of the many hexagonal(?) plates forming the barrier. This plate is SOLID. And we know it to be the main component of the barrier because you can make it show different scenarios(ie. you can make the plate look like a sunny day, or a vast empty land etc.).

In other words, the barrier is made up of thousands of these SOLID plates, hence the barrier is solid. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I even think you can see on the world map that the barrier is made up of many little plates.

Anyway, based on this, the explanation for this is almost certainly the whole world map not being shown to scale, as well as a programming convenience.

[Skyblade]

ThePheonix: You are forgetting the plates. Within the barrier, Squall and Co see one of the many hexagonal(?) plates forming the barrier. This plate is SOLID. And we know it to be the main component of the barrier because you can make it show different scenarios(ie. you can make the plate look like a sunny day, or a vast empty land etc.).

In other words, the barrier is made up of thousands of these SOLID plates, hence the barrier is solid. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I even think you can see on the world map that the barrier is made up of many little plates.

I tried pointing that out before too. No one listened.

[Sir Bahamut]

I noticed. That's why I figured I'd restate it.

[G SpOtZ]

maybe the programmers didn't think people would care so much XD

[crazybayman]

maybe the programmers didn't think people would care so much XD
Probably.

[Christmas]

now can we get back to making fun of FE?


That's why we can all make fun of Future Esthar, even though half of the people making fun of him now weren't here when we started.

It is kinda sad that people might have the impression of coming to this forum only to pick on a specific person.....

I kinda started the whole thing but making fun of him is never my intention....

So do people make fun of Future Esthar just because he is Future Esthar and also because of someone post rebuttles to Future's theories and people just join in the "fun" and make fun of him regardless of what the theories is about only because Future post it.

Although almost all his theories is far fetched and out of this world, it give reasons to post sensible rebuttles and only a bit of reasons to make fun of his personality and character but I dun think we should condenm him.

It is also kinda being over suspicious like anyone that support or have the same views as Future is branded as another mule account of Future Esthar. The two victims are Bipper and Flare_Cross currently(some might suspect Random_Lurker as well.....). I reckon that they might not want to post again here.

Sorry if I sound like "Forum police" here.

[Skyblade]

now can we get back to making fun of FE?


That's why we can all make fun of Future Esthar, even though half of the people making fun of him now weren't here when we started.

It is kinda sad that people might have the impression of coming to this forum only to pick on a specific person.....

I kinda started the whole thing but making fun of him is never my intention....

So do people make fun of Future Esthar just because he is Future Esthar and also because of someone post rebuttles to Future's theories and people just join in the "fun" and make fun of him regardless of what the theories is about only because Future post it.

Although almost all his theories is far fetched and out of this world, it give reasons to post sensible rebuttles and only a bit of reasons to make fun of his personality and character but I dun think we should condenm him.

It is also kinda being over suspicious like anyone that support or have the same views as Future is branded as another mule account of Future Esthar. The two victims are Bipper and Flare_Cross currently(some might suspect Random_Lurker as well.....). I reckon that they might not want to post again here.

Sorry if I sound like "Forum police" here.

I don't make fun of Future Esthar because of his theories, or even just for the hell of it. I make fun of him because he refuses to acknowledge reason when discussing his theories.

I haven't seen anyone blame Bipper of being one of Future Esthar's seperate accounts. I certainly don't. The two don't act that similar. Also, while my snap judgement about Flare_Cross was that he was a duplicate account, talking with him shows that he is far more reasonable than Future Esthar, even if he did start out with some far-fetched theories.

[G SpOtZ]

i only say things like that as a joke. never serious, you can't just assume without taking the other persons actual self into consideration. i see it as harmless fun for us, and they shouldn't be insulted.it's not like future esthar is a bad person. he just comes up with outrageous theories that are amusing to all of us.

moogle pie.

[Christmas]

Ya, I guess I am a bit over reacted here. It is like seeing Mewt from FFTA. Sorry.

[G SpOtZ]

's okay. XD

[Future Esthar]

Either that, or the in-game image of the Ragnarok can pass through the image of the barrier as it is represented on the World Map.

The World Map cannot be treated as a literal representation of what's there. If you believed everything you saw on the World Map, then you'd have to believe that Squall is taller than most buildings, and a vehicle can be larger than a village.
The fact that the Ragnarok appears to go through the barrier is, to me, obviously just a convenience. The barrier, if it was shown to scale, would be absolutely miniscule - so no point wasting time and patience by making the player ascend every time they go into Esthar. Of course, some people point out that you can't fly through mountains. However, mountains are far larger than the barrier, to the extent that they actually matter from a navigational point of view. The barrier, on the other hand, is at most 10-15 meters high, so the Ragnarok would have to be flying pretty darn low to actually hit it.
Anyone else noticed that, if you fly or "park" near a forest, some of the trees can pass through the Ragnarok? Same explanation, I think.

Still suspicious,though.
Things need to had internal consistency even on the world map.

1-Maybe the wall we see on the world map is 10 to 15 meters?How do you know it isn´t?After all things on the world map weren´t at scale as you said.
2-I don´t believe the holographic walls to be just what we see.I believe the real holographic wall is an abode (semi-sphere) over the country.
They start on the soil and make a curve on the high sky.
However we just happen to see on the world map (and field) the displays near the soil.
It´s not like this last one is a valid argument though.I just added it as curiosity.

Anyway it´s better to make fun of me than to BE ANGRY at me.
But thanks Unknowns.

[rubah]

Actually that would be pretty cool if you had to yoke back to get into and out of estharxD

[ThroneofDravaris]

The walls are only a hologram...so they can be passed through with the Ragnarok. The Garden can't pass through it because the pilot sees the wall and assumes that it would be impossible to pass through it (as you would, I mean it looks pretty solid…). Obviously, no one is going to fly the Garden into a wall and destroy it on the off chance that it WAS a hologram (an occurrence that no one knows about at first…) so the Garden stops before it breaches the walls.

Can’t remember if you can get the Garden back after you have been to Estar, but if you can, the same sort of thing would apply. Even if Squall DID tell the pilot that the walls were a hologram, I doubt that it would entice them into doing something as ludicrous as flying the Garden into it. I mean, just the sight of the Garden moving towards the wall would be enough to give half the students heart failure. Of course, the Ragnarok is piloted by Selphie and since:

1. She’s seen first hand that the walls are holographic, and
2. She’s an insane, war mongering bitch,
She might be more incline to fly straight through it….

Think that covers everything.

[Christmas]

1. She’s seen first hand that the walls are holographic, and
2. She’s an insane, war mongering bitch,
She might be more incline to fly straight through it….

Think that covers everything.

When Selphie isn't piloting the raganarok, Zell or Quistis will be piloting. So the same reasons applies to the two of them....?

To Future Esthar: So, how does it affect the storyline that much as you mentioned last time?

[Fonzie]

Giving Future the power to mae a poll is like giving a kid a gun and telling him not to shoot anyone. You know whats going to happen.

[ThroneofDravaris]

When Selphie isn't piloting the raganarok, Zell or Quistis will be piloting. So the same reasons applies to the two of them....?



I can't remember any point in the game in which anyone other than Selphie pilots the ragnarok...but the same would apply really...

[rubah]

Does she pilot it when she's in your party?

[Christmas]

To Zell it might fit.

But to Quistis, well...



She’s an insane, war mongering bitch,
She might be more incline to fly straight through it….

This two might not fit in considering the character of Quistis herself.

Anyway, to get Quistis to pilot, have Zell and Selphie in your party.

[ThroneofDravaris]

Oh right, never used Selphie so....

I think point one would take precident then.

[Sir Bahamut]

The walls are NOT holographic, for the last time! Everyone who thinks they are holographs, go play through the Great Salt Lake section of the game again. It's made painfully obvious that the wall consists of multiple SOLID hexagons(or some polygon, can't remember for sure how many sides) which can each appear as whatever Esthar wants it to look like.

I mean, the party even climbs up a ladder which is attached to this wall. That alone disproves the notion that the wall is holographic.

[rubah]

I thought irvine piloted if you had selphie in your party xD

Well I don't usually go on the ragna's bridge anyways ^_^

[Christmas]

Here something to clear the confusion:

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/7755/pilot7ml.png

Quistis pilot it when Selphie and Zell is in your party and Zell pilot it when Selphie is in your party.

EDIT: Just something to add here.


The walls are NOT holographic, for the last time! Everyone who thinks they are holographs, go play through the Great Salt Lake section of the game again. It's made painfully obvious that the wall consists of multiple SOLID hexagons(or some polygon, can't remember for sure how many sides) which can each appear as whatever Esthar wants it to look like.

I mean, the party even climbs up a ladder which is attached to this wall. That alone disproves the notion that the wall is holographic.

Maybe I use a more simple way to explain this. The Esthar thingy works like a chameleon which camouflauge to merge with the surroundings. But it doesn't just change colors only that is.

And you can touch the chameleon ever if it camoflauge to merge with the surrounding because the chameleon existed.

[ThroneofDravaris]

The walls are NOT holographic, for the last time! Everyone who thinks they are holographs, go play through the Great Salt Lake section of the game again. It's made painfully obvious that the wall consists of multiple SOLID hexagons(or some polygon, can't remember for sure how many sides) which can each appear as whatever Esthar wants it to look like.

I mean, the party even climbs up a ladder which is attached to this wall. That alone disproves the notion that the wall is holographic.

Hmm, I guess I’ll have to revert back to my first theory as to why you can pass through it:

Because shut up, that’s why!

[Jessweeee♪]

FE: WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE STORYLINE?!

You have not answered the question. Maybe the programers decided it would be a pain in the ass to have to fly over and decided to make it so you wouldn't have to. And also as someone pointed out earlier, the world map is not the actual thing. If it were, Squall would be bigger than Winhill and would crush all of the residents there. When the ragnarok goes through the barrier it just means that it is beyond that point.

[Future Esthar]

Following that logic I would say they can pass through certain mountains so that it couldn´t be a pain on the ass.

And I already said things on the world map had to have internal consistency.To say the ship pass through the wall because that is not that high is on direct contradiction with the mechanics of the world map we are used to see.Do we see Squall going through part of the sea because the distances weren´t at scale?No.Nor we see this kinds of bug on the world map with the exception of the walls.

What does this had to do with the storyline of FF8?
That´s what I waited you to guess.

Hint1:This thread is entirely related to the thread "Beautiful".

Now think a little and you will guess additional information.

Help-The "Color Check" panel was seen on the holographic wall.
Nearly all vehicles on FF8 uses the technology that the Ragnarok uses to pass through the holographic walls.
Very few people knows this.
The lines of the poligonal shape cannot be crossed by foot (with just a few exceptions).
Possible conclusion:

I will let that for you to answer .I like to be interactive with people.

[Sir Bahamut]

Possible conclusion:

Your theories are a load of crap.

How's that for an interactive conclusion?

[G SpOtZ]

Possible conclusion:

Your theories are a load of crap.

How's that for an interactive conclusion?
i agree. i almost feel like future esthar iscoming up with these crazy theories and making US try to figure him out for his own amusement because he likes to see people actually think about his outrageous ideas. oops did i say ideas? i meant insane, unprovable theories that only exist in ur little fake world. O.o sorry to flame, but damn. enough is enough lol.

always saying things that you can't back up. sure anythings possibly, because THIS IS A GAME. you can come up with ur own theories but you can't say they are facts, just opinions. geesh...

[Skyblade]

I wouldn't mind his theories if he was actually willing to discuss them. But he simply dismisses every arguement put against his theories, offers no evidence to support them, and refuses to consider that he may be incorrect for even half a second.

[Christmas]

Following that logic I would say they can pass through certain mountains so that it couldn´t be a pain on the ass.

And I already said things on the world map had to have internal consistency.To say the ship pass through the wall because that is not that high is on direct contradiction with the mechanics of the world map we are used to see.Do we see Squall going through part of the sea because the distances weren´t at scale?No.Nor we see this kinds of bug on the world map with the exception of the walls.

What does this had to do with the storyline of FF8?
That´s what I waited you to guess.

Hint1:This thread is entirely related to the thread "Beautiful".

Now think a little and you will guess additional information.

Help-The "Color Check" panel was seen on the holographic wall.
Nearly all vehicles on FF8 uses the technology that the Ragnarok uses to pass through the holographic walls.
Very few people knows this.
The lines of the poligonal shape cannot be crossed by foot (with just a few exceptions).
Possible conclusion:

I will let that for you to answer .I like to be interactive with people.

I think you post at the wrong thread. This is the thread you should post:

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=60973

And if you dun want to reveal it, so be it.

[Rinoa Heartilly]

I always just figured that The Ragnarok could since it was originally (one of?) Esthar's flagship(s). ^^

[xX.Silver.Wings.Xx]

No... it's just to keep you from waltzing in there with the garden before you're supposed to.

There is no way to get to esthar with the garden until you are supposed to be there.....