Aeris was supposed to live.

[Dr.Blue]

This is my first time here. So being the law abiding n00b I am, I went to the “New Posters” thread, and read this “Squall of SeeD’s” post about how Aeris was never intended to live, or to be revived.
Well Squall is wrong, because she was intended to live. And Tifa, was to have never existed.

"Actually, we only had Aerith at the beginning, and Tifa did not exist. But on a Sunday evening, I phoned the director Mr. Kitase and suggested 'Let's kill Aerith and put in Tifa' (laughs). So now we have two heroines, and we never had an event where one of them dies." ~Character designer and the story writer of FFVII, Nomura Tetsuya

From-Final Fantasy VII Kaitai Shinsho

It’s virtually a technicality, but it’s there in writing. She WAS intended to live.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

It was an especially early stage of the story's development. If we go by what you're saying, then every character who ever died in any story was "supposed to live" because there were points in time when the authors hadn't thought of killing them off yet.

[Roxula]

Aeris was suppose to die I mean look how fast she leveled up she was already level 99 once she died on my game

[TheAbominatrix]

By this logic, Aerith was never even supposed to exist, because there was a time when no one had thought her up yet.

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

If Aeris was supposed to live they really messed up the ending to disc 1.

[ZeZipster]

It's true. Why do you think Aerith has her final limit break? It's impossible to get her to that level before she dies.

[Dr.Blue]

It was an especially early stage of the story's development. If we go by what you're saying, then every character who ever died in any story was "supposed to live" because there were points in time when the authors hadn't thought of killing them off yet.

This is different though, and you know it is.
They had allready decided the basic plot for FFVII, how it was going to play out, what the main parts were, ect. It was after this, that they thought of killing Aeris's firstly just joking around.

[TheAbominatrix]

Where does it say they'd already decided the plot, and things would remain the same?

[-N-]

I thought they decided the plot when they released the game.

[Vernie]

It does not really matter if she was intended to die in the first place or not. That's how it happened in the story, and if it didn't, then the story would be really screwed up.

[nik0tine]

Oops.

[boys from the dwarf]

aeris was supposed to doe or else she wouldnt be able to do those things near the end of the game in the final battle.im glad aeris died.

[Squall of SeeD]

You clearly don't understand the concept of a draft, Dr. Blue. A first draft does not count as the final draft. A multitude of ideas can be conceived, introduced, and acted upon between a first draft and a final draft. The final product reflects the ultimatite intentions of the concepts conceived and implemented. Aerith was intended to die and remain dead. That was the ultimate intention.

[Dr.Blue]

You clearly don't understand the concept of a draft, Dr. Blue. A first draft does not count as the final draft. A multitude of ideas can be conceived, introduced, and acted upon between a first draft and a final draft. The final product reflects the ultimatite intentions of the concepts conceived and implemented. Aerith was intended to die and remain dead. That was the ultimate intention.

Oh, I understand the concept of drafts my friend. And I know there were proubably other characters who existed, and were cut for various reasons. However, It is true, even if it was earlier in the drafting period. There was a time when Aeris was meant to live. Which is all I'm saying.

And to the people who posted earlier, do you really think that they didn't have a pretty good idea of what the story was going to be when they decided they were going to make FFVII?

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

And to the people who posted earlier, do you really think that they didn't have a pretty good idea of what the story was going to be when they decided they were going to make FFVII?Yes. Generally they go like this:
Everyone: "OH NOES SOMETHING BAD IS HAPPENEDING, WHAT DO WE DO?"
Hero/Heroine: "I WILL SAVE THE WORLD!"

See I could write a FF.

[crazybayman]

By this logic, Aerith was never even supposed to exist, because there was a time when no one had thought her up yet.
Yes.

And sometime before that, there was a time when they didn't know if they would create FFVII.

And sometime before that, there was even a time when they didn't realize they would release Final Fantasy! Period!!!! :eek:



And to the people who posted earlier, do you really think that they didn't have a pretty good idea of what the story was going to be when they decided they were going to make FFVII?Yes. Generally they go like this:
Everyone: "OH NOES SOMETHING BAD IS HAPPENEDING, WHAT DO WE DO?"
Hero/Heroine: "I WILL SAVE THE WORLD!"

See I could write a FF.
Go idea. A suitable title could be FFVII: Aeris the Crack-wh@re - Her Days before Avalanche.
IT has been established in previous threads that she was a drug-dealer, and a hoe afterall.

[Dr.Blue]

Don’t be foolish. You, as well as I know that a FF is not a normal RPG. Do you really think Square would just let anyone come in and make the story, with no plan?
Actually, let us see for our selves, the following is an actual, real life conversation* when FFVII’s script was decided upon.

Some Guy: “Uh, yea, I wanted to make the story for Final Fantasy VII.”

Square: “Ok. Do you have a script, your main ideas, and a story/characters lined up?”

Some Guy: “No…but I’m pretty sure there will be Chocobos…and mougles.”

Square: “Pronounced “Moogles”. Do you have any other ideas?

Some Guy: “No, I’ll decide the story AFTER I start the game. As is apparently the custom with developing games.”

Square: “I see no problem with that. Have fun.”

Oh, I guess I was wrong. : )

*not actual conversation

[Mirage]

It's true. Why do you think Aerith has her final limit break? It's impossible to get her to that level before she dies.
That statement is false.

[crazybayman]

Don’t be foolish. You, as well as I know that a FF is not a normal RPG. Do you really think Square would just let anyone come in and make the story, with no plan?
Actually, let us see for our selves, the following is an actual, real life conversation* when FFVII’s script was decided upon.

Some Guy: “Uh, yea, I wanted to make the story for Final Fantasy VII.”

Square: “Ok. Do you have a script, your main ideas, and a story/characters lined up?”

Some Guy: “No…but I’m pretty sure there will be Chocobos…and mougles.”

Square: “Pronounced “Moogles”. Do you have any other ideas?

Some Guy: “No, I’ll decide the story AFTER I start the game. As is apparently the custom with developing games.”

Square: “I see no problem with that. Have fun.”

Oh, I guess I was wrong. : )

*not actual conversation
I was kidding, tool.

[TheAbominatrix]

Plots are in constant developmental flux. Saying that Aerith's fate was changed but the plot would have remained the same makes no sense, because you have no proof of this, nor do you have the slightest idea what stage they made this change in. For all you know they had the basic plot and characters down, then decided to write in Aerith's death and add Tifa to the roster.

The only thing that statement you provided proves is that, at the time they thought up Aerith, they hadnt yet decided she was going to die. And then they did. It still doesnt mean she was supposed to live. First drafts, as had been said.

[liamo]

if she was supposed to live then why did she die? that pretty much shows that she was fated to die

[KoShiatar]

By this logic, Aerith was never even supposed to exist, because there was a time when no one had thought her up yet.

Actually, it was Tifa who was never supposed to exist. In the beginning there only was Aeris and they thought about Tifa later. But from that moment on, Aeris became the one doomed to death. (If I understood correctly, they threw Tifa in after deciding that Aeris should die).

[TheAbominatrix]

By this logic, Aerith was never even supposed to exist, because there was a time when no one had thought her up yet.

Actually, it was Tifa who was never supposed to exist. In the beginning there only was Aeris and they thought about Tifa later. But from that moment on, Aeris became the one doomed to death. (If I understood correctly, they threw Tifa in after deciding that Aeris should die).

You dont get my meaning. What I'm saying is, if Aerith was meant to live because her death hadnt yet been decided, then technically she wasnt even supposed to exist, because there was a time before the developers had thought of her character at all (and by that I mean way before the game was thought of, right back to the beginning of time).

Aerith wasnt 'meant' to live because her death hadnt been decided, anymore than a fetus in the womb is 'meant' to be one sex before their development gets to the stage where such things are decided. A very basic and glib example, and to note, I dont care if I'm a bit off base in the biology aspect. It's just basic to illustrate my point.

[Meat Puppet]

Everybody dies one day.

[Shoden]

oh great not another "Aeris should have lived" thread jesus fucking christ
look she died end of story the final game had her die ok

[Winter Nights]

Can someone please explain to me the point of this retarded thread. So at one point in the writing process, they hadn't decided to kill her off.. No farkin crap. That's why it's called a writing process.

[Roxula]

Wow Aeris died no one else in the world will ever die will they?

[Mercen-X]

I think I heard that according to the originales, Cloud was intended to be a half-demon hybrid and Sephiroth was supposed to be his transforming half-brother.
Vincent wasn't intended to have a gauntlet, but instead he was supposed to have a pair of gnarly pistols and return from beyond the grave to take revenge against Rufus who had killed him for "betraying" him in favor of Shinra.
Aeris was originally meant to be Aerith (pronounced Aeris), a whore from the Honeybee Inn who frequented the Seventh Heaven and engaged in regular drunken orgies with Barret and Tifa.
Marlene was never supposed to be human but instead a tiny robot doll designed by Professor Gast and programmed with the intent of studying the "slummers" reaction to prolonged exposure to Mako liquid that provided their towns with energy.
Red XIII was another robot prodigy. Except he was going to be a hulking mass of armor like the robot in Chrono Trigger only red.
The Turks were going to be called True Grave or the Raiths before the Turks was decided.
Originally Reno was set to die when Cloud chopped off his head and threw his corpse off the tower, but that was a little too violent.
Zack was going to be the main character of this game before they decided to kill him. Before that, they intended that Cloud be little more than his underling or effeminate lover.



It doesn't matter that all that's made up as it doesn't matter what Square's original "IDEAS" were, the story went as it was intended to go because that's the way it ended up. It would be saying something completely different if FF7 was based on a book in which Aeris lived. Then you'd be wholly correct in your assumptions.

George Lucas's Star Wars originally had it that Luke be called Starkiller and that Return of the Jedi be called Revenge of the Jedi (which revenge doesn't suit the character of a Jedi). If you say that Aeris was supposed to live because at one point they hadn't created the idea, then you have to say the same for any character in any story that has or will ever die(d).

[crazybayman]

WHAT!?!?!? AERIS DIES?!?!? OMGWTF!!!?!?!?

[Dr.Blue]

nor do you have the slightest idea what stage they made this change in. For all you know they had the basic plot and characters down, then decided to write in Aerith's death and add Tifa to the roster.

As I stated earlier, do you really think they let them start making FFVII before they had a pretty solid plan for the plot? It's common sence.

Can someone please explain to me the point of this retarded thread. So at one point in the writing process, they hadn't decided to kill her off.. No farkin crap. That's why it's called a writing process.

Oh hush. If you don't like the thread, and don't want it to continue, don't you think it is both hipocritical and idiotic to bump it saying you hate it?

As for everyone else. Just calm down, I'm not saying she should be reserected. I just wanted to point out that quote because I'm sick of people saying:

"She died, she was meant to die, she was alaways meant to die!!!!!!"

Any time anyone mentions her.

[fantasyjunkie]

Guys, it's an 8 year old game for crying out loud. I love FF7 too but geez, :rolleyes2

[Wilder]

obyously you´re not aware of the little detail that young new gamers are tasting the FF right now, and theyre enjoyng it as you did 8 years ago, so, aeris is dead what a tragedy :eek: .

[KoShiatar]

By this logic, Aerith was never even supposed to exist, because there was a time when no one had thought her up yet.

Actually, it was Tifa who was never supposed to exist. In the beginning there only was Aeris and they thought about Tifa later. But from that moment on, Aeris became the one doomed to death. (If I understood correctly, they threw Tifa in after deciding that Aeris should die).

You dont get my meaning. What I'm saying is, if Aerith was meant to live because her death hadnt yet been decided, then technically she wasnt even supposed to exist, because there was a time before the developers had thought of her character at all (and by that I mean way before the game was thought of, right back to the beginning of time).

Aerith wasnt 'meant' to live because her death hadnt been decided, anymore than a fetus in the womb is 'meant' to be one sex before their development gets to the stage where such things are decided. A very basic and glib example, and to note, I dont care if I'm a bit off base in the biology aspect. It's just basic to illustrate my point.

I get it now.
By the way, I've had enough of this Aeris stuff...Next time I change my screen name, I'll choose "Dead Aeris". And put up a signature like "Let me lie!!"

[Aidan]

bull... aeris was meant to die. she was pretty much useless in ff VII because it revolved pretty much no strategy. it was basically a 9999 hit game. thats all you had to do to beat the game. im not saying i didnt like it, because it wa san awesome game, but if aeris wasnt meant to die, why did she. they considered ideas to how the game was going to play out, and that was one idea. however, thats not the idea square stuck with when finishing the game. they decided that she would be better off dead. why? pretty self explanitory...

and when someone says its "impossible" to get aeris to use her lvl 4 limit break before she dies.... wrong. you could easily level up to 99 and get her lvl 4 limit, it would just take a while.

[TheAbominatrix]

Yes, they probably had a pretty solid plot. But you have know idea WHEN they made the change. It could have been the day they started their thoughts on the plot or when they were almost done, neither of us know how developed the plot was when they decided Aerith should die, and that's my point.

[Aidan]

just so everyone knows, her name is spelled aeris, but its pronounced aerith. i always thought aeris sounded cooler, but do what you please.

[TheAbominatrix]

Actually you have it backwards. It was spelled Aerith in the first drafts we saw for the American version, and later changed to spell Aeris. Regardless, it's pronounced Aeris.

[Rengori]

This is my first time here. So being the law abiding n00b I am, I went to the “New Posters” thread, and read this “Squall of SeeD’s” post about how Aeris was never intended to live, or to be revived.
Well Squall is wrong, because she was intended to live. And Tifa, was to have never existed.

"Actually, we only had Aerith at the beginning, and Tifa did not exist. But on a Sunday evening, I phoned the director Mr. Kitase and suggested 'Let's kill Aerith and put in Tifa' (laughs). So now we have two heroines, and we never had an event where one of them dies." ~Character designer and the story writer of FFVII, Nomura Tetsuya

From-Final Fantasy VII Kaitai Shinsho

It’s virtually a technicality, but it’s there in writing. She WAS intended to live.
By this logic, there is no reason to stop Sephiroth since Aeris's pray for Holy would have worked. Aside from changing
a lot of Diolaouge, it would change the entire story, as well as several cut scenes. And, going by this, you obviously don't Squall very well do you?

[Aidan]

i was pretty sure it was spelled aerith in the drafts, and switched it over to aeris, for god knows what reason. it was pronounced aerith for as long as i remember. even on kingdom hearts, she was pronounced aerith, but im probably wrong. your even convincing me, so you must know what your talking about.

[TheAbominatrix]

Well I've seen it argued in many many threads, so I'm not an expert or anything, but if you want you can look back in the FFVII threads and try to find it. Or I'll look real quick.

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=39942

There ya go. Argued by people who know more about pronunciations and whatnot than I do. This is where I got my info from.

[Aidan]

eh. no one will have any solid proof until they talk directly to the makers in square, and i dont think thats happening any time soon. i reall dont care. i used her when i had to, and when i didnt i stripped her of her materia.

[Teek]

Actually, the answer is pretty clear, and there is no debate, really. (Where is Kishi when you need ...needless information?)

"Aerith" is the actual name of her character. However, in Japanese, there is no "th" sound, rendering the spelling of her name "Eirisu", or "Aeris". That is how the random Japanese fanboy would pronounce it, unless they are like me with other languages and really practice their "th" sound so they can say it correctly.

When the translators got a hold of it, rather than name Aerith correctly, they just... directly made the sound. Makes sense; Aerith is pronounced Aeris is Japanese. It's still technically incorrect, but still.

See it like this. Cid is really Cid, although the Japanese pronounciation - the closest that they could get - is "Shido", but clearly it's Cid.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Aeris's name is spelled "Earisu" in Japanese, not Eirisu, but yeah, Teek has it right.

[Teek]

Aeris's name is spelled "Earisu" in Japanese, not Eirisu, but yeah, Teek has it right.Oh, damn it. When I wrote that in, I wasn't sure if that was right.

[Masamune·1600]

Aerith would seem to be the ideal Romanization of Earisu; Aeris best matched conventional phonetics, and was for that reason used when the game was released.

As to the original debate, Dr. Blue seems to have missed much of the point of Squall's piece. The matter was raised in the first place as a result of numerous individuals endorsing the so-called "unfinished game theory." A number of forum members had contended that Aeris had been intended to be resurrected, but that said revival had been left out the game due to time constraints. Squall's piece demonstrated that such was not the case; Aeris was never intended to be revived, and all "evidence" pointing to an incomplete resurrection event really showed nothing at all.

[Dr.Blue]

By this logic, there is no reason to stop Sephiroth since Aeris's pray for Holy would have worked. Aside from changing
a lot of Diolaouge, it would change the entire story, as well as several cut scenes. And, going by this, you obviously don't Squall very well do you?

Well actually it proubably wouldn't have changed it that much, I mean, all they'd have to do is write in another reason for Aeris's prayer being interupted. Aside from that, Aeris living really woudln't have made much of a difference.

eh. no one will have any solid proof until they talk directly to the makers in square, and i dont think thats happening any time soon. i reall dont care. i used her when i had to, and when i didnt i stripped her of her materia.

No. She was deffinitly meant to die once the game started to be prouduced through computers. Not a chance otherwise. There are numerous interviews stating this fact.

As to the original debate, Dr. Blue seems to have missed much of the point of Squall's piece. The matter was raised in the first place as a result of numerous individuals endorsing the so-called "unfinished game theory." A number of forum members had contended that Aeris had been intended to be resurrected, but that said revival had been left out the game due to time constraints. Squall's piece demonstrated that such was not the case; Aeris was never intended to be revived, and all "evidence" pointing to an incomplete resurrection event really showed nothing at all.

You know, I think I get what you mean. I didn't take into account that some people still thought there was a way to reserect her...I was just saying how in a small way, Squall was wrong.
But yes, now I know what he means.

[Rengori]

By this logic, there is no reason to stop Sephiroth since Aeris's pray for Holy would have worked. Aside from changing
a lot of Diolaouge, it would change the entire story, as well as several cut scenes. And, going by this, you obviously don't Squall very well do you?

Well actually it proubably wouldn't have changed it that much, I mean, all they'd have to do is write in another reason for Aeris's prayer being interupted. Aside from that, Aeris living really woudln't have made much of a difference.

Let's see, Aeris would have gotten Holy to work without Sephy dead, Meteor would not have been summoned, there would be no reason to go to the north crater, and the WEAPONs wouldn't have unleashed hell on FFVII's world. Little story change?

[Dr.Blue]

Let's see, Aeris would have gotten Holy to work without Sephy dead, Meteor would not have been summoned, there would be no reason to go to the north crater, and the WEAPONs wouldn't have unleashed hell on FFVII's world. Little story change?

I don't even understand the first part. "without Sephy dead"? What are you talking about? Meteor would have still been summoned. Why wouldn't it? Her prayer would have been interupted, so it would have eventually come in at the time it did.

[Rengori]

Her prayer only partially worked; when Sephiroth killed her, it interrupted the prayer, but it could still work. Sephiroth was the only thing stopping Holy.

[G SpOtZ]

sephiroth needed to kill aeris becuase she was still praying. with her a live, he couldn't just block the holy on his own so he had to kill her for the prayer to stop so sephy could block it

[Winter Nights]

Actually, the game says that her prayer DID work, but that Sephy's presence blocked it. Her dying was just a way to fuck with Cloud. The plot really wouldn't have changed that much, if they had decided to let her live.

[Rengori]

Damn.

[Mercen-X]

So far, the stupidest argument I've read is: Aeris was meant to die because I hate her / she's useless.

[Ageless_Bum]

What an interesting read that all was. To be honest i dont see why you all jumped on Blue so badly. He only made the statement to be cute. Anyone who read it could have realised that. Let him have his moment in the sun and let the thread die. I did think one good point was made, if you hate "Aeris was meant to live" threads then dont read them, and certainly dont post in them as its helping them stay alive.

In the end though there a few people posting that surprised me, but it was funny to see the replies. Keep the rumor threads and consequential flaming coming. They never get old ........

[Cloud Lionheart]

Its a game... but i almost cried when she snuffed it!

[Shoden]

she died she was meant to die if she didn't die FF7 would be smurfed up

[Vincentsinnerdemon]

i read that the reason that they had her die is because one of the designers mother died while the game was in developement and wrote it in as such. i personally think that no matter how much you dont want it to happen it was one of the reasons the story was so good.

[G SpOtZ]

AERIS DIED?!

[Masamune·1600]

i read that the reason that they had her die is because one of the designers mother died while the game was in developement and wrote it in as such. i personally think that no matter how much you dont want it to happen it was one of the reasons the story was so good.

This is an extremely common misconception concerning the development of FFVII. However, Hironobu Sakaguchi's mother actually died in 1988, during the production of FFIII. While Sakaguchi does suggest that her death led him to consider death in a kind of a mathematical way, and that this theme was explored in FFVII, "killing Aeris" wasn't actually even his idea. Rather, the concept can be credited to Tetsuya Nomura, who in turn passed it on to Director Yoshinori Kitase.

A more thorough exploration of this misconception can be found in this essay. (http://www.geocities.com/ff7analysis/Inspiration.html)

[G SpOtZ]

masamune makes us all look brainless.

[ZeZipster]

Guys, it's an 8 year old game for crying out loud. I love FF7 too but geez, :rolleyes2

I don't know whether to argue with you or go into a depression because I just finished a 2 hour conversation about Galaga.

[bipper]

Oops.

:D :D :D :D

Wow, that was good :)

[kikimm]

Oh I just want this to die. Please don't revive threads that are in the middle of leaving us forever. Especially when it's about Aeris. >=(

:P