My independent analysis

[Raistlin]

So, a little while ago we had some trouble with these self-proclaimed conservatives saying that the staff had a "liberal bias" in banning them from EoEO/EotW. Well, out of sheer curiosity(and because I thought it'd be kinda fun), I decided to see just how far I could go in EoEO/EotW, by posting conservative views(<i>truly</i>, consistently conservative, small-government views - which really means an economic/political conservative and social liberal). And I just have this to say:

it's pretty smurfing far.

I started off somewhat minor: swearing a bit and indirectly calling my opposition names("you'd have to be an idiot to believe that"). Nothing, not even a warn(I don't think). I gradually got to the point where I was calling the opposing arguments "complete bull<img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> and any idiot with half-a-brain would recognize that" or something similar. STILL no ban. Or any PM/in-thread warnings. Or any warnings at all, I don't think(Yams: "I don't know. I don't check warned posts." xD).

So, yesterday, I became determined, and thought I'd have some fun with it. Which resulted in me being slightly spammy today in some recent EotW threads, going around the swear filter, and calling some new members agreeing with my opposition "reinforcements for General Stupidity."

I was laughing on AIM with Dr Unne the whole time, and linking him to these posts. Seeing that no one else was about to, he decided to warn me, with the message that I was "hankering" for an EotW ban . Then, and only then, was I EoEO/EotW banned. I don't know who banned me, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Yams. :p

So I don't know if the staff's gotten more lenient/apathetic in the past few weeks, or it really is just smurfing hard to get banned. Or either my opposition really WAS(/is) so frustrating that even the mods can't read through the threads they post in(I know I sometimes have trouble).

Feel free to close this. I just want the next idiot who claims a "liberal conspiracy" among the staff to be able to see this.

Oh, and how long is my ban for? :D

[Shoeberto]

I think it really depends on who reports the posts. Personally, I don't read EoEO or EotW much unless a post has been reported, so for me it depends on what the members reading it feel is offensive.

[Raistlin]

But who could find offensive me saying that it should be a capital crime to even suggest that one of the leaders of my opposition become President? :D

[Shoeberto]

Eh, no one important.

[eestlinc]

most of us stopped reading EotW because it's filled with morons.

...crap, I do get banned for saying that?

[Agent Proto]

Only in EoTW and EoEO.

[-N-]

Do we have to pay you for doing this... consulting work? :p

[Hawkeye]

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/431/anarchy3gm.jpg

[Del Murder]

My official stance on that forum is that it should be replaced with a link to the government feedback page, if they even have one. If not, a picture of a toilet will do. One day I will swallow my pride and join forces with Psychotic to unleash the combined wrath of the Brigade and Baotw to spam that forum back to the Raistlin age.

I much prefer the maturity of the X-2 forum.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I haven't gone around the EotW forums as often as I used to because many of the threads did not interest me, but I was trying to keep up on them. Be that as it may, I'd not seen much of your stuff until I'd seen the warn, and to be frank, I figured that you knew the rules well enough to know better. So I banned you :D

And you've got two weeks.

I do need to try to go in there more often, but I find it somewhat aggravating myself.

[Shlup]

It's because everyone who knows how EoFF works well enough to report posts knows better than to read through your posts, Raist.

[Big D]

Many of us do indeed refuse to be bothered with that particular forum. The topics, interesting as they sometimes are, get hijacked by weirdoes who turn them into personal crusades against other mindsets. Rather than simply debating issues and facts in a mature manner. Pity, really. There are equally bad perpetrators on both sides.

Simply put, most of us can't be smurfed trawling through ten pages of diatribe every day on the offchance that we might spot some flame or spam.

Reported Posts are reasonably useful. But then, some members make purposefully whiny, demanding reported posts: "Why hasn't this person been banned yet? ZOMF staff r suxor n uzeles n baisssiss(sp!?!?!?!?!?) cuz u do nthoting!!!!!!!!111111!1!!!11!!!1111111111111!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111"

We generally don't bother with responding to Reported Posts like that, for obvious reasons.

[fire_of_avalon]

It's because I haven't been there. I'll do better, boss.

[Shlup]

I don't think staff should be held responsible for patroling the forums that thourally. If someone thinks a post breaks the rules, they should report it. And if they don't they're a poop.

[DMKA]

most of us stopped reading EotW because it's filled with morons.
Why the hell are you in Feedback then?

[Meat Puppet]

If I go to one of my old posts in EoEo and edit it to post something inappropriate, will I get banned?

[escobert]

yes /action bans

[Raistlin]

Do we have to pay you for doing this... consulting work? :p
fi' dolla.


It's because everyone who knows how EoFF works well enough to report posts knows better than to read through your posts, Raist.
But you agree with me most of the time in EotW. :p


Many of us do indeed refuse to be bothered with that particular forum. The topics, interesting as they sometimes are, get hijacked by weirdoes who turn them into personal crusades against other mindsets. Rather than simply debating issues and facts in a mature manner. Pity, really. There are equally bad perpetrators on both sides.
Yeah, it gets pretty bad.


Reported Posts are reasonably useful. But then, some members make purposefully whiny, demanding reported posts: "Why hasn't this person been banned yet? ZOMF staff r suxor n uzeles n baisssiss(sp!?!?!?!?!?) cuz u do nthoting!!!!!!!!111111!1!!!11!!!1111111111111!!!!! !1111111111111111111111111111"
Haha, I linked Unne to a thread so he could read my posts in context, and after he read through just the first part, he said "I'm not reading that" because of all the spelling mistakes. xD


I don't think staff should be held responsible for patroling the forums that thourally. If someone thinks a post breaks the rules, they should report it. And if they don't they're a poop.
I agree. But you still think <i>someone</i> would've warned me or something. :p

[Cz]

Responsible, balanced individuals don't visit EoEo/EotW, and if all of the idiotic posts really resulted in a ban then there wouldn't be any activity there at all.

If you want sensible discussion, go to GC. :D

[Meat Puppet]

Or better yet, feedback.

qwertyuiop087653

[Psychotic]

One day I will swallow my pride and join forces with Psychotic to unleash the combined wrath of the Brigade and Baotw to spam that forum back to the Raistlin age.It would be like that time in World War I at Christmas where British and German soldiers left the trenches and sang carols and played games, before going back to shooting each other the next day.

[Shoeberto]

most of us stopped reading EotW because it's filled with morons.
Why the hell are you in Feedback then?
Feedback may be full of morons, but we're at least able to make fun of them here. Big difference :D

[edczxcvbnm]

Mods suck when it comes to EotW and they always will. They don't read posts in there which is pretty damn obvious to me. They only way anything will happen is if you are warned. Make no battles with people and you can sail away on a cruise ship to the land of titties!

This has come from my personal experience. I view EotW as my own person spam grounds because that is all I do for the most part.

Also Intelligent discussion on the internet? WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE? smurf-TARDS? Its the smurfing internet man! There is no such thing as intelligence. That is a myth. GEEZ :rolleyes:

If you don't know by know Hsu...you can make fun of people in EotW also. Just don't make personal attacks and it isn't a flame.

[Leeza]

ed, your sig is overheight with that text below it. Fix it or I remove it.

Looks like you've challenged me to go into those forums, which I have absolutely no time for, find crap posts and give you all bans. I'm up for it and then there will be no one left posting in there. That will be sweet.

[edczxcvbnm]

ed, your sig is overheight with that text below it. Fix it or I remove it.

Looks like you've challenged me to go into those forums, which I have absolutely no time for, find crap posts and give you all bans. I'm up for it and then there will be no one left posting in there. That will be sweet.

1) I will fix it :mad2: :love: :mad2: :love: :eek:

2) Sweet :cool:

[Destai]

*bitches*

[Leeza]

*would start with Destai, but sees that he's already banned*

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I ignore about half of the warns for those threads as is. I do read the post, but generally it isn't a bannable offense. Some stuff gets caught but a lot seems to fall through the cracks. I'll have to be more dilligent.

[edczxcvbnm]

I have a question.

If it is such a <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> hole that you guys don't care then why even bother with the 'zero':laugh: tolerance policy?

[eestlinc]

Mods suck when it comes to EotW and they always will. They don't read posts in there which is pretty damn obvious to me. They only way anything will happen is if you are warned. Make no battles with people and you can sail away on a cruise ship to the land of titties!
Yes, we don't read that forum because reading that forum is like drinking Drano: it tears you up inside.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Zero Tolerance (in theory) keeps it from degenerating further.

[Leeza]

I have a question.

If it is such a <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> hole that you guys don't care then why even bother with the 'zero':laugh: tolerance policy?

It's not that we don't care. In my case it's time. I don't have it to sit and read through pages and pages of a thread every day, but when I do ever end up going into those forums and see spam, flaming, etc., I do ban. Those forums don't need it.

[eestlinc]

I'll dig in and swallow my corrosives.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

And I generally do enjoy debating in EotW or EoEO with some of the better members. We can't ban for opinions, however, which can make things trying :D

[Shoeberto]

It's very testing of the sanity to have to wade through five or more pages of people whining about crap you don't care about back and forth at each other. I don't care to take part in debate, so I stopped visiting those forums some time ago. Even though it's part of my duties now to enforce the policies in there, it's so mind numbing to go through all of this crap I don't care about in order to make sure that everyone is playing nicely.

I think some of the other staff feels the same way. The only course of action to help this situation, I think, is to reinforce to the posters there that, if they feel there is flaming or spamming, they must report it.

[TasteyPies]

Well if you guys don't have enough time/people to moderate these boards then the solution is simple. Ban a bunch of people

edit: There. I edit all my posts about 50 million times before I'm done posting you read version 7 so I reset it back to that.....in fact it took me 4 tries just to make this edit tab the way I wanted. ok, 12 times now becuase I spelt read wrong. 13 now because I spelt because wrong..and I didn't like the way I said it.

[Shoeberto]

Yeah, that was my first thought, too.

edit: Prior to you editing your post. Just the bit about banning people.

[edczxcvbnm]

If non of the mods like that forum then find someone who does like that forum and make them just a forum mod. Problem solved. Gets us off of your backs and it keeps you out of the sperm dumpster.

[eestlinc]

foa likes that forum but she's been slacking.

[edczxcvbnm]

THE SLACKER!

[DMKA]

Yes, we don't read that forum because reading that forum is like drinking Drano: it tears you up inside.
Think that one up all by yourself?

[edczxcvbnm]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2005/20050801l.jpg

Of course he didn't. All comedy starts at PA now or haven't you heard?

[eestlinc]

I don't read penny arcade, except when someone posts it in here. Besides, ed just posted it because it says "fucking" in it.

[edczxcvbnm]

No way. Liquid Plumber = Drano and everyone knows it. On top of that it gets increasingly harder to find a PA that does have fuck in it :/

[Psychotic]

The staff have a Zero Tolerance policy? Hah! A Zero Competence policy more like! Oh, I know, I'm so witty.

Delete EotW. Problem solved.

Alternate solution: Find The Captain and beg him to come back.

[-N-]

You could make Raistlin a mod of that forum. :o *flee*

Where is The Captain? Is he doing an EoFF diet?

edit:
One day I will swallow my pride and join forces with Psychotic to unleash the combined wrath of the Brigade and Baotw to spam that forum back to the Raistlin age.It would be like that time in World War I at Christmas where British and German soldiers left the trenches and sang carols and played games, before going back to shooting each other the next day.xD

[Leeza]

The staff have a Zero Tolerance policy? Hah! A Zero Competence policy more like!
You just might eat those words.

[Psychotic]

I like mine medium rare.

[eestlinc]

My work here is done.

[Psychotic]

I must say I am disappointed. You could have at least put pictures of David Hasselhoff naked in there instead.

[eestlinc]

I gave you a matching theme at least. that was the best thing I found on google image search that fit within the sig sizes.

so don't say I'm incompetent. :elk:

unless you like when I mess your stuff

[Psychotic]

It ruined my beautiful custom title. *sigh*

Besides, I didn't say you were incompetent at editing profiles, but at moderating EotW!

[eestlinc]

i like your new theme though. but the last one was good too.

I guess I could go EoEO ban some more people and start a big feedback war again.

[-N-]

I thought the P was really classy. :\

[eestlinc]

it was, and Psy can put it back if he wants.

[Psychotic]

Oh, I will, right after I turn the general public against you for such a besmirchment.

[eestlinc]

the public is already against me

[Agent Proto]

That usually happens when you join staff.

[Cloud No.9]

i am solely responsible for the degeneration of the eotw forum. sorry chaps and chapettes.

[Raistlin]

At least he realizes it.

I wish the mods would tighten up a bit. If intelligent debating starts up again, I could probably bug Elyse to come back.

[Big D]

i am <s>solely</s> partly responsible for the degeneration of the eotw forum. sorry chaps and chapettes.Fixed.
[/kishi]

[Raistlin]

I would comment, but then I'd probably be Drunk Tanked. That is the next step, right?

[Psychotic]

Nah, they only do that for people who go on spamming/abusive rampages. Go around posting in every thread that Cloud no. 9 sucks and should be forced to eat his own lungs, and then you might just be in with a chance.

[Yamaneko]

Don't quit your day job, Raist.

[Raistlin]

...what other job would I be searching for? O_o

[eestlinc]

elyse should come back

[fire_of_avalon]

Or you know, everyone could just start behaving themselves. If coming in there and kicking your asses is what it'll take for you to appreciate the existence of a forum in which to discuss world topics maturely, then by gum I'll do it. I just thought maybe most people would be a little better than that. Guess I was wrong. Here I go!

[Raistlin]

Lieutenant Colonel foa goes off to battle against the forces of General Stupidity!

[Big D]

I tried that for a while. I closed every World Events thread that got spammy or flamey. It didn't work, though - people just made more threads, rather than using their brains and changing the way they post.

[Yamaneko]

The solution is obviously to ged rid of the forum and prohibit political discussion, seeing as this is, you know, a FINAL FANTASY FORUM. Go somewhere else where your pro/anti-Bush comments will be appreciated.

[edczxcvbnm]

The forum was created(if I am not mistaken) because people kept wanting to discuss terrorist attacks, random news article and such and such. Some people complained that it flooded EoEO and it did but the flow was never going to stay THAT high to warrent its own forum and I think that is the case now for the most part. It is like the Xenogears board. It just isn't ment to be.

I never liked that World Events was created and I still don't. I don't see why the occasional new article has to be dicussed there. The only time it is really bad for any forum is usually once every two years(US elections) and when something big happens like the London Bombings, Iraq invasion or 9/11/2001. Outside of that the forum is usually pretty dead.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

EotW also serves as a venue for political discussion. Now if only people would stop being so stubborn about their views vs. other people's views, we'd have a decent forum.

[edczxcvbnm]

No way. Haven't you ever seen a political 'Debate'

Where do you stand on this?

Guy one: Blah blah blah blah
Guy two: Guy one is wrong because blah blah blah
Guy one: Now that just doesn't make any sense because of blah blah blah
Guy two: Your just wrong and I am right!

View at home: Huh? That is to complicated to understand.

[Strider]

Not to mention all of the poorly typed posts.

If we got rid of Eyes on the World, I wouldn't miss it much. You're askin' for that kind of thing when it comes to politics, so maybe it's out of place in a forum where the average age is... what, 17?

[Leeza]

We can't stop people from discussing politics, etc. and I would much rather have those threads segregated into one forum than have them turning up in GC or EoEO if it was gotten rid of.

[Cloud No.9]

the funny things is that while people whine about me on eotw and say i'm the evilest person there and i'm gonna cause the moon to collide with the earth if i keep on not liking maericna policy. i have not had one warning or ban from the admin. so i must be doing something right.

[Teek]

the funny things is that while people whine about me on eotw and say i'm the evilest person there and i'm gonna cause the moon to collide with the earth if i keep on not liking maericna policy. i have not had one warning or ban from the admin. so i must be doing something right.Cloud, like I said before, no one really cares that much about you, and we certainly don't think you're "evil". You can just be very freaking stubborn, and that's what pisses us all off (even supporters). I mean, being anti-American isn't a new idea, after all.

Oh, and to all of you new knights and whatnot, I say this: burn the damn place.

[Leeza]

Burning the damn place isn't going to stop the threads from starting in other forums.

[Teek]

Burning the damn place isn't going to stop the threads from starting in other forums.
True, but from reading the thread, it seems that the general consensus among the staff is that Eyes on the World is lame beyond compare, and that no one even wants to moderate it. Perhaps if those threads spread into other, more moderated boards (GC and EoEo) they would be a little bit less spammy.

I mean, I admit I'm a real ass in EotW at times, but that's because I know I can get away with it. (I've never done anything bannable, though. Don't get excited, haha).

[Agent Proto]

The forum was created(if I am not mistaken) because people kept wanting to discuss terrorist attacks, random news article and such and such. Some people complained that it flooded EoEO and it did but the flow was never going to stay THAT high to warrent its own forum and I think that is the case now for the most part. It is like the Xenogears board. It just isn't ment to be.

I never liked that World Events was created and I still don't. I don't see why the occasional new article has to be dicussed there. The only time it is really bad for any forum is usually once every two years(US elections) and when something big happens like the London Bombings, Iraq invasion or 9/11/2001. Outside of that the forum is usually pretty dead.

You know, that's a very nice idea. So, you want Eyes on The World to be reserved and used only when a major event happens? I mean, I could see that happening. The staff removes EoTW from being viewed for most of the time, but when something happens that affects the world or some part of the world that would increase activity in EoEO about that event, then probably staff can bring back the forum, and when everything slows down or when the discussions are about over, they can remove the forum.

[Teek]

You know, that's a very nice idea. So, you want Eyes on The World to be reserved and used only when a major event happens? I mean, I could see that happening. The staff removes EoTW from being viewed for most of the time, but when something happens that affects the world or some part of the world that would increase activity in EoEO about that event, then probably staff can bring back the forum, and when everything slows down or when the discussions are about over, they can remove the forum.The problem with that is that it sounds quite arbitrary. What signifies normal events from sweeping world events? I would say that the recent Supreme Court incidents that were discussed in the forums as big events, but it's not really a world event.

I, myself, don't see anything wrong with having a political forum. I just don't see why it can't be moderated. I mean, Christ, it's bad, but that's the staff's job. Go through and lock all of the threads that suck (but base it on something less subjective than "I don't like this thread, which I see a lot). Make the rules a bit closer. I mean, it's unrealistic to think that there will be no flaming of any kind in those kind of threads. Politics and religion are two huge topics to the average individual; to expect them to act "maturely" (read: as a robot) in threads of that nature is pretty foolish.

[rubah]

There's no use in making EotW hidden, seeing how most people seem to ignore it a lot of times, myself included.

[Big D]

You know, that's a very nice idea. So, you want Eyes on The World to be reserved and used only when a major event happens? I mean, I could see that happening. The staff removes EoTW from being viewed for most of the time, but when something happens that affects the world or some part of the world that would increase activity in EoEO about that event, then probably staff can bring back the forum, and when everything slows down or when the discussions are about over, they can remove the forum.The problem with that is that it sounds quite arbitrary. What signifies normal events from sweeping world events? I would say that the recent Supreme Court incidents that were discussed in the forums as big events, but it's not really a world event.

I, myself, don't see anything wrong with having a political forum. I just don't see why it can't be moderated. I mean, Christ, it's bad, but that's the staff's job. Go through and lock all of the threads that suck (but base it on something less subjective than "I don't like this thread, which I see a lot). Make the rules a bit closer. I mean, it's unrealistic to think that there will be no flaming of any kind in those kind of threads. Politics and religion are two huge topics to the average individual; to expect them to act "maturely" (read: as a robot) in threads of that nature is pretty foolish.Solid points all round. If the forum's gonna remain, it needs to be permanent; what constitutes 'important news' is too subjective.

When we say people are supposed to act "maturely" in that forum, that generally means they're simply supposed to avoid name-calling and general dicking around. That is what should be easier to achieve. I do, however, agree that "zero tolerance against crap threads" would be easier and more effective than "zero tolerance against individual misdemeanours".

Also, I reckon that EoEO bans and EotW bans could be kept separate, since the subject matter of each forum is wildly different, as are the ways that people debate in each forum.

[fire_of_avalon]

If you don't like the forum, don't go there. Piece of cake, it ain't that hard and I'm sure it don't hurt your feelings.

I agree with Big D about separating EoEO and EoTW bans, but I also think we should keep one ban that applies to both, because some people are just too irritating and mean to be in either.

[theundeadhero]

No way. Haven't you ever seen a political 'Debate'

Where do you stand on this?

Guy one: Blah blah blah blah
Guy two: Guy one is wrong because blah blah blah
Guy one: Now that just doesn't make any sense because of blah blah blah
Guy two: Your just wrong and I am right!

View at home: Huh? That is to complicated to understand.We could all be like the Koreans and start throwing books and/or food at each other when we don't agree.


The thing about the forums is that people like to argue and personel views is the easiest thing to argue about. Then beyond that people don't like it when other people can argue better than they can. They take it personally and then the personal insults come out. All the rules a leader might want could be set up but people tend to view the rules as optional. Even if the rules were enforced stricter, people would probably keep up they way they do and take the ban because they view it as being worth it. Even so, with the bans at least it keeps things better off a little at a time as the ban lasts. The only thing that can be done is to encourage people to warn, possibly in an announcement, and then it's up to the Mods to actually read the warned posts. That, and Leeza could start doing something around here instead of just taking credit for Yam's work.

[UWAOOOOU]

That, and Leeza could start doing something around here instead of just taking credit for Yam's work.That would be the simple solution, if only...

[eestlinc]

I don't think there's really any problem.

[-N-]

The solution is to hire an EoTW moderator to moderate discussions, like TV debates.

Or to banish the forum entirely.

You know, whatever.

[Leeza]

There is actually no problem as long as everyone knows when to click on the warn button.

[escobert]

Oh but there is!

[Raistlin]

I agree with people who say that EotW should be more moderated. Yes, it's good to have members use the Warn button, but that appears to be only a necessity in EotW. Why? Because none of the current staff even like to go in there. The possible solutions then are to get rid of the forum entirely, yell at the mods/admins to start looking in the forum at least, or promote new mods who would do it. You should definitely NOT rely solely on the members for any part of the running of the forums.

[RSL]

So we agree to promote Raistlin and Cloud No.9 as our new EoTW moderators?

[Raistlin]

Unless you want me to start banning people, that would not be a wise move.

[-N-]

DO IT DO IT DO IT xDDD

[Raistlin]

Neel would be the first to go.

[edczxcvbnm]

There is actually no problem as long as everyone knows when to click on the warn button.

People would know if you guys would come up with 100% defined rules that are not open to interpertation. Only then would anyone know when and when not to use it. Flaming and Spam are all subject to personal opinion.

[Big D]

Any rule is subject to interpretation. How can you make a definitive list of what constitutes "flaming", for instance? You get a basic rule, with a basic definition, then apply it as seems appropriate to the circumstances. Problem is, there's always a grey area of borderline cases - those are what test the definition.

[Raistlin]

Exactly. And it is up to the staff to interpret <i>and</i> enforce the rules - NOT the members. The warn button is a helpful feature, but it should not be relied on explicitly.

[Del Murder]

People would know if you guys would come up with 100% defined rules that are not open to interpertation. Only then would anyone know when and when not to use it. Flaming and Spam are all subject to personal opinion.
Feel free to use the button according to your own opinion and interpretaion, then, and if nothing happens, you'll know we don't agree with it.

And now to read the other three pages, as I have been away for the weekend and am always interested to see Raistlin and the Feedback gang overdebate an issue.

[Raistlin]

The point is that the staff should not rely on the Warn button to moderate an entire forum for them. :p

[Yamaneko]

U.S. Constitution = four pages

E.U. Constitution = bigger than the Bible

[edczxcvbnm]

EDIT: This is really in reference to what Big D said but people posted a lot from then to now.

Your wrong. There are rules that are not open for interpertation such as say....going out of bounds in football. You are either on the line or not. If the ref calls it out and you know you were in. Challenge it and they watch the replay and everything and then make the call to keep or over turn it.

Now that I proved you wrong on ANY rule is subject to interpetation...I guess I can say 'DUH' to the rest and say 'That is my point and that is why people will never really know when to press the warn button so don't expect people to know.'

Then I can end it all by saying something ed like such as 'Jackass' or 'Burnout lightbulb?!% ;/' and have people wonder about why he said such a wierd thing and why ed said 'saying something ed-like' when he is ed. The mysteries of the world compel you?

Okay. I am done being entirely stupid now ;d

[eestlinc]

the staff don't run the forums, the members do. We just try to keep things in line.

[Raistlin]

the staff don't run the forums, the members do. We just try to keep things in line.
That's bull<img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> and you know it. :p

EoFF isn't - and shouldn't be - a democracy.

[Del Murder]

I think what champ means is that the members dictate the tone and maturity level of the boards, while we just enforce the rules.

Anyway, I disagree with Leeza and think that deleting the forum would not cause too much trouble. Political discussion would start popping up in GC but then it would get diluted by all the <s>spammers</s> people having 'fun'. I think it would solve two problems. Lighten up the politcal talk and get some serious discussion back in GC.

[Cloud No.9]

i think me and person of differing opinion (would have been raistlin before he got banned) should be made moderators of that forum really. we would cancel each other out when anyone accused us of bias. i use it more often than most and someone like hachifusa or raistlin if reinstated would be adequete. so why not? it's not like i've bee abusive of the forum and neither raistlin or hachifusa. if we ever did we would only be sub-mods anyway and could get the power removed easily enough.

and about only using it for events. look at what happened with my niger post. it went back to africa. because every world event has politics behind it and that cannot be ignored. you canno have a forum where only facts are reported and no opinion or debate given. buy a newspaper if you want the news.

[Raistlin]

I think anyone who would be made moderator of WE should be acceptable to be made a full CK. This immediately disqualifies Cloud No.9 - because I believe adequate grammar and punctuation is some sort of prerequisite - and myself, because then I'd just spam up Staff forum with The Pimp smiley until they either added the damn thing or kicked me out. :p

[Cloud No.9]

it's not that i can't use proper grammar, punctuation and spelling. it's mostly typos for the spelling and the punctuation and spelling i plainly just ignore because i don't think it is greatly needed.

[Raistlin]

Out of idle curiosity: was Shlup the only staffer who would've resigned if I was made a mod again? :p

[Del Murder]

That does not make sense. Nobody is made a mod if any current staff member has an objection to them. So there would be no need for resignations in the first place.

[Raistlin]

This I know, as BoB has said time and time again whenever someone brings up the "Aaron missed out on Staff by one vote" story. I was speaking hypothetically, as I believe Shlup made that announcement back when she was an admin. :p

[XxSephirothxX]

I don't think anyone who says "I should be made a mod of so-and-so section" should be made one. Anyway, I don't think that the site really needs more mods over this issue. People should know to warn posts. If they do, the CKs should make sure to look at as many as possible and judge the posts to the best of their ability. If this doesn't work, maybe harsher rules should be put in place.

[Raistlin]

I don't think more mods should necessarily be added, either. But threads have to be read - again, the members can't be left with sole responsibility of a forum.

[eestlinc]

I don't think modding a couple people for the WE forum would solve any problems. It would most likely just create more problems, and since we don't really have any problems right now, that would be bad.

[Leeza]

I agree with eest. If we thought there was a problem that's as big as you're making it out to be, Raistlin, I'm sure we'd do something about it. As it is, we don't. If we don't get in there enough to catch problems and no one feels the need to report them, then that's the members problem to put up with. But, when we do get in there and see abuse going on, then bans happen.

And this site doesn't have Sub-Mods. We're all for one and one for all.

[Raistlin]

...so why bother having the moderators delete spam or flames when they see them? If the members don't Warn, I guess no one's bothered by it, so what's the problem?

EDIT: All I'm saying is that if a forum has deteriorated to the point where the mods - who don't want to go near it if they don't have to - rely solely on the members posting in there to tell them if something's wrong, then there's a problem.

[Leeza]

You're the one that started this thread, Raistlin so I guess you're the one that feels it's a problem. The Staff wasn't complaining. :)

..at least not outside of Staff. :)

[Raistlin]

I think the facts that the only reason I was banned was when someone who doesn't normally look in that forum Warned me, and that most of the moderators here say "I don't look in EotW and I don't want to" speaks for itself. :p

[Leeza]

You were banned because you were in there trying to get yourself banned and you know it. :tongue:

[Raistlin]

Oh yes, but if Unne hadn't Warned me(after I was linking him to the threads), then who knows how long it would've gone on?

[Agent Proto]

How about have members volunteer to look after EoTW then? They don't need to have mod powers, but can volunteer to look after the threads and report what's going on to any of the mods.

[Yamaneko]

You and your crazy schemes, Proto.

Well, since I don't count as a mod, then maybe we should knight another member. Unless the foa/Necro/Hsu knighting was in part to cover my laziness as a staffer. :mad2:

[Raistlin]

That, and you don't check Warned messages, so you can be said to not mod EotW at all. :p

[Leeza]

Proto, read my lips. There is no need for any more Mods and there is no problem. Reporting is what every member is for, not just some chosen few.

[Del Murder]

Oh yes, but if Unne hadn't Warned me(after I was linking him to the threads), then who knows how long it would've gone on?
Raistlin, over the months I've grown to appreciate what you bring to the table, so I hope you take this friendly: Nobody cares.

[Raistlin]

I realize this, and that's part of the problem. :p

All I'm saying is that if the mods don't want to go in the forum, it should be deleted. Or the mods should go in the forum to moderate it(without depending solely on the members). I'm not asking for new moderators or for every mod to read every thread. But I remember just a while ago, when Big D posted in there regularly, and I saw Yams and some other people post occasionally, and there was not nearly the idiocy in there that there is now.

[Dr Unne]

The way I see it, there are two ways of solving this problem: Make EoTW stop sucking, or permanently ban Raistlin from it. Either way, you stop 99% of the complaints. I think the correct decision is clear.

[Raistlin]

We don't need comments from the peanut gallery. :p

[DMKA]

I agree...if it's so horrible and no one wants to go near it because it's "filled with morons" as has been so eliquently stated, I say get rid of it and bring back b as a replacement...otherwise someone needs to do more than just wait for people to push the warn button, which we already know doesn't happen as often as it should.

I don't really care either way though because I pretty much try to avoid it now anyway. I just post there every once and awhile when there's nothing interesting in the Lounge or General Chat. :)

[eestlinc]

i was mostly joking about the "filled with morons"

[Yamaneko]

I wish you weren't.

[-N-]

I hope you realize what an unnecessary fuss this EoTW crap is causing, now that one of its best posts ever is gone.

[eestlinc]

I blame Raistlin

[Del Murder]

Do you take screenshots of all your posts or something?

[-N-]

Are you saying they're all that funny and worth saving?

Why, how magnanimous of you to offer me such a compliment, Del!

[eestlinc]

he just knew it would be deleted

[-N-]

I H8 U SUPER DELETE

[theundeadhero]

Is this thread the mandatory I got banned from *insert forum here*, wtf staff, in a clever disguise?

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I would have caught it eventually, Raistlin. While many of the threads I dislike because of the direction it takes, I do try to check everything. However, I'm busy with other things, and I don't have the time to read through pages upon pages of essay-like posts, especially when A) I've other things that need to be taken care of and B) the posts are incredibly incoherent. I do check things, but much of the moderation in this forum is reliant upon the warn button, by virtue of the fact that there are so many threads and posts, and the fact that we all have other things (like real jobs) that also occupy our time. Some of the mods might be able to use a computer at their work, I don't personally have that luxury and can only do it when I have the time to go home and get online.

[fire_of_avalon]

You know, sometimes when Staff isn't feeling particularly plucky over a period of weeks, the entire forum gets a little crazy and a little crappy. Should we delete the whole of EoFF because of that? No, because things straighten out.

Honestly, my opinion on EoTW is as follows; open your eyes, and pull the stick out your butts, and everything will be okie dokie.

However, you guys want the stick forcibly removed by staff. But you don't want it to hurt, either! If we do go in there and try to clean up, you'll all scream soci-economic-political bias and run crying back over here. Poor babies.

Grit your teeth.

[Cloud No.9]

doesn't the forum self moderate anyway? if you think it's filled with morons then you're not going to use it. and if you're not using it you won't see any of the morons and so can't whine. yes maybe some people should just shut up half the time but meh they have their say as much as anyone else.

and i use the warn button a wee bit.

[Meat Puppet]

I vote raistlin.

[Raistlin]

I would have caught it eventually, Raistlin. While many of the threads I dislike because of the direction it takes, I do try to check everything. However, I'm busy with other things, and I don't have the time to read through pages upon pages of essay-like posts, especially when A) I've other things that need to be taken care of and B) the posts are incredibly incoherent. I do check things, but much of the moderation in this forum is reliant upon the warn button, by virtue of the fact that there are so many threads and posts, and the fact that we all have other things (like real jobs) that also occupy our time. Some of the mods might be able to use a computer at their work, I don't personally have that luxury and can only do it when I have the time to go home and get online.
This I happily accept as an answer. The rest of you: forgive me if I find something wrong with "I don't want to look in this forum, so I'll let it run itself."


You know, sometimes when Staff isn't feeling particularly plucky over a period of weeks, the entire forum gets a little crazy and a little crappy. Should we delete the whole of EoFF because of that? No, because things straighten out.

Honestly, my opinion on EoTW is as follows; open your eyes, and pull the stick out your butts, and everything will be okie dokie.

However, you guys want the stick forcibly removed by staff. But you don't want it to hurt, either! If we do go in there and try to clean up, you'll all scream soci-economic-political bias and run crying back over here. Poor babies.
What the hell are you talking about? I'm not The Redneck or Sasquatch.

[Cloud No.9]

redneck and sasquatch those were the days.............

[Agent Proto]

Pull the stick out of our butts? What if some of us actually want the stick to stay in our butts? I personally feel that staff should get involved to solve some problems if things get out of hand. The staff is like the police, they keep things under control. Warning people is like giving out tickets. Banning people is like the ultimate punishment similar to going to jail/prison. When there is a riot going on, the police do their job to keep it under control in person. It should be similar with the threads when it gets out of hand with the name callings, etc, that's not allowed. The staff should keep it under control by checking out the posts and giving warnings to offenders, even if it means putting in a "off topic" post. A simple OOC tag should be enough to difference the posts, or you can warn people by PM. However, in-thread warns are a good way to gain the offender's attention, rather than PMing them. By deciding to ignore EoEO, the staff is letting the problem grow, which would not fix itself up. How will the problem fix itself, if the members are not aware of what they're doing?

[Cloud No.9]

tis true. it is the duty of the staff.

[theundeadhero]

The staff is like the police, they keep things under control.Apparently EoEO/EoTW is like the Ghetto, staff just don't wanna go in there so unless it's reported nothings gonna happen. :)

[edczxcvbnm]

The staff is like the police, they keep things under control.Apparently EoEO/EoTW is like the Ghetto, staff just don't wanna go in there so unless it's reported nothings gonna happen. :)

Now I have a great visual image of the staff...wait. It is just Police Chief Wiggam eating donuts and being lazy :D

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

*bans Ed from feedback as a show of force*

[-N-]

Pull the stick out of our butts? What if some of us actually want the stick to stay in our butts?Keep your jail talk to yourself, prisoner.

[DMKA]

redneck and sasquatch those were the days.............
...that are fortunately over.

You know, sometimes when Staff isn't feeling particularly plucky over a period of weeks, the entire forum gets a little crazy and a little crappy. Should we delete the whole of EoFF because of that? No, because things straighten out.
Yes, but there isn't a bunch of bitching and whining over the other forums being occasionally crappy and "filled with morons", now is there?

[edczxcvbnm]

*bans Ed from feedback as a show of force*
http://www.robotjohnny.com/archives/images/2004-06/charlie_brown.gif

[escobert]

OMFG LIBERALS ARE TEH BIASED TO ME. EVIL !!!11!!1 PLEASE MR BUSHY SAVE MY WHITE ASS FROM BEING POOPED ON

[DMKA]

OMFG LIBERALS ARE TEH BIASED TO ME. EVIL !!!11!!1 PLEASE MR BUSHY SAVE MY WHITE ASS FROM BEING POOPED ON
x)

If all that whining were derived from something true I'd never have been EoEO banned or thrown in the drunk tank. :D

[eestlinc]

Yes, but there isn't a bunch of bitching and whining over the other forums being occasionally crappy and "filled with morons", now is there?
there might be if people made threads complaining about the other forums. <a href=http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=67318>example here</a>.


What if some of us actually want the stick to stay in our butts?
I'm tempted to split off that post and archive it.

[theundeadhero]

Yes, but there isn't a bunch of bitching and whining over the other forums being occasionally crappy and "filled with morons", now is there?No... http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67318

Well, maybe...

EDIT: I was beaten to it.

[edczxcvbnm]

You both are still wrong and I will await to be proven wrong.

He said a bunch and you only gave one example. Last time I checked a bunch was more than one :D

EDIT: Just a bit of weird humor. Wonder why some people say the forum sucks? <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/08/sc.beermoney.ap/index.html">Look no further! </a>

[Teek]

I don't think anyone who says "I should be made a mod of so-and-so section" should be made one. Completely off-topic, but when I said that I was a mod the next day.

[Raistlin]

I was a mod the same day after I said that. :p


I'm tempted to split off that post and archive it.
I thought that same thing after I read that. "This needs to be archived." xD

[Cloud No.9]

now you see i remember a time when eotw was fairly decent. just before i left. and the time between me coming back and redneck and sasquatch getting all yuppity. so there must be a reason why right now the said forum has been getting a lot of flak. i seriously doubt it was me so there must be something else recently that has mesed it up.

[Raistlin]

Sure - all of the radical conservatives leaving(or being banned), all of the mods staying out of EotW, and people actually buying your tripe.

[Cloud No.9]

so what we need more is right wing nuts and less of my talking?

[Teek]

so what we need more is right wing nuts and less of my talking?
Actually, we need more right wing nuts to balance out the left wing nuts. Raist and I are too staunchly libertarian for that.

[Cloud No.9]

have you ever wondered why so many people "buy my tripe"?

[eestlinc]

what we need is more civility and respect for each others' opinions. Nobody has all the answers and anyone who claims they do should not be trusted.

[edczxcvbnm]

You don't trust God?

[-N-]

Jesus saves!




















Passes to Moses, he scores!

[Cloud No.9]

eestlinc people will always think they are right. and some of those people will never be convinced out of that when it comes to their views. that's how it really works. i don't expect to be able to convince a hindhu to turn catholic in the same way i don't think people could convince me of right wing views.

[Del Murder]

Raistlin: You are forgiven.

[Yamaneko]

I think we all need gf's.

[edczxcvbnm]

Or better jobs as I only really post from work now :/

I really don't need anymore GFs. Ifrit and Shiva are just fine.

*lame FFVIII joke*

[Cz]

I actually thought of Guardian Force before I thought of girlfriend. :D

[Yamaneko]

Girlfriends?

[Cz]

Girlfriends?I just overheard the word from an episode of The OC. Don't ask me what it means. :confused:

[Psychotic]

My girlfriend is inflatable!

...an inflatable banana. I couldn't even afford a blow-up doll. :(

[eestlinc]

but is it the unbent banana?

[edczxcvbnm]

Spam

[eestlinc]

the unbent banana is not spam.

[Psychotic]

If I was going to marry anyone it would be spam, so I suppose that technically the unbent banana is spam.

[Raistlin]

eestlinc people will always think they are right. and some of those people will never be convinced out of that when it comes to their views. that's how it really works. i don't expect to be able to convince a hindhu to turn catholic in the same way i don't think people could convince me of right wing views.
Exactly. But my confidence in my convictions is commonly mistaken for the blind faith of any religious nut. I have confidence in reality, and in my own mind to perceive that reality. I am confident in my conclusions because I know that I based them purely off reality and an objectively-defined morality, with my life as its highest value. I am confident in my interpretation of reality until and unless I am given <i>reason</i> to do otherwise. I will always bow down to reality - whether the facts support or dispprove me. I have no preconceived notion of my infallibility, as "the more you know, the more you know you don't know" (or, as I prefer, "the more you know, the more you know there is to know") - but I do have the rational trust in my own ability to perceived reality, and to use reason.

Our arguments differ as follows:

You: "typhoid fever spread at roughly the same time as lasseiz-faire happened - therefore, lasseiz-faire caused the disease and its spread. How? I don't know how, but it did!"

Me: "Socialist policies caused the Great Depression. This happened because the government forced the interest-rates on bank loans down, and let the banks lend out as much money as it wanted, regardless of the money in its own vaults. This was made possible through the Federal Reserve, which housed a lot of imaginary money. The banks lent out many times more money than existed, which was in turn spent on other things. People made fortunes - on paper. An economy can only last so long based on nothing."

I explain my reasons, as clearly as I can. You have yet - in your numerous incoherent rants - to respond to them.

In reply to eestlinc: should people respect others? Absolutely. But, as was expressed in the "Intolerance of intolerance" thread a while ago in EoEO, I would not be "tolerant" of an idea of a society where homosexuals are forcibly castrated. I would not be tolerant of an idea of a government which could tell its citizens what it can and cannot reach. And I would not be tolerant of an idea of a country in which the people are considered nothing but slaves - and their property only the property of the country. I am not tolerant of evil - nor should I be. They can think whatever they want - but they don't necessarily deserve our consideration. The only people who benefit from such tolerance are those who least deserve it.

[eestlinc]

All I'm saying is that insulting people just because they have a different view of "reality" is childish and immature. You don't have to agree, or be converted, but everyone should at least treat others humanely.

[Raistlin]

I do treat others humanely. When have I not? This is, of course, outside of the obvious occasion when I was <i>trying to get banned</i>. :p

[eestlinc]

I know, I'm just saying for the edification of the membership.

[Raistlin]

Oh, you mean, the...<i>other people.</i> Damn newbies.

[Del Murder]

There are other people here besides Raistlin?

[Raistlin]

Not that matter, anyway. :rolleyes2

[Yamaneko]

Hey, guys. :cool:

[Raistlin]

...

*looks at the new avatar*

*looks at the new custom title*

...

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! xD

So this is how you get back at me, eh?

[edczxcvbnm]

Calling someone a hypocrite when they are being a hypocrite isn't an insult as long as you are going by the definition. With something like that it is mainly a black and white thing with very little grey area because either you are or you aren't.

Long story short it isn't a flame if it is true.

[eestlinc]

"you're a hypocrite" isn't a flame.

"you're a hypocrite, you <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> for brains" is.

[Teek]

If that's true, then people aren't flaming as often as people complain. People are stupid and getting heated, but half of the threads that were locked shouldn't have. Beyond a statement like "youre a hipokrite", there isn't much flaming.

[edczxcvbnm]

"you're a hypocrite" isn't a flame.

"you're a hypocrite, you <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"> for brains" is.

:laugh: Then why was I banned?

[Meat Puppet]

Nobody here says hipokrite.

[eestlinc]

I don't know, but I guess I could look. I certainly wouldn't ban someone for calling someone else a hypocrite, at least depending on how they said it.

edit: I'd have defended you in that case ed, except I was on vacation. see what happens when they let me leave for a week?

[Del Murder]

ed, I'm sure we could find something else if we really tried. Feel free to take that last sentence too seriously and use it to further your malcontent agenda, not that it ever needs help. :)

[Teek]

Nobody here says hipokrite.Funny you brought that up. I thought the same thing after writing it. Left it because I liked the way it looked.

[Meat Puppet]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is the name of a mythological egyptian sex god/dess.

[escobert]

Yes MP you are wrong!

[Big D]

Nobody here says hipokrite.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is the name of a mythological egyptian sex god/dess.Yes MP you are wrong!However, there was a Greek medic named Hippocrates. Close, but completely different.

[edczxcvbnm]

ed, I'm sure we could find something else if we really tried. Feel free to take that last sentence too seriously and use it to further your malcontent agenda, not that it ever needs help. :)

The day before I called about 8 people a moron in a thread. If I had been banned for that then I really wouldn't have cared as it was deserving.

As I have said before...Of all the things I SHOULD be banned for I get banned for making a hypothetical situation in which someone would be a hypocrite. Forshame staff...forshame!

Instead of making a big deal out of it, I viewed it as a long time coming :D

Speaking of which...it has been 2 weeks.

[RSL]

6 hours to go edczxcvbnm!

[eestlinc]

your ban expires automatically after exactly 2 weeks.

[edczxcvbnm]

WHOA! That is awesome. That means I don't have to worry about it not getting done at some point during the day.

*Back to being a code monkey for me*

[Cloud No.9]

raistlin i never wrote that quote that you put down as me. your problem is exactly that.

[Teek]

raistlin i never wrote that quote that you put down as me. your problem is exactly that.It was clear he was paraphrasing; none of us thought that was a direct quote.

[Psychotic]

However, there was a Greek medic named Hippocrates. Close, but completely different.Galen could kick Hippocrates's ass.

[Cloud No.9]

it wasn't a paraphrase it was a judgement. i in fact argued that point with him. he chose to ignore it and state that i didn't.

[Ultima Shadow]

Why not simply ban everyone with low competence? Of course, that would mean that no staff members would be able to access EoEO and EotW. :-/

[edczxcvbnm]

Why not simply ban everyone who act stupid? Of course, that would mean staff members wouldn't be able to access EoEO and EotW. :-/

Nah! EVERYONE is stupid in someway. Even me :whoa:

[Teek]

it wasn't a paraphrase it was a judgement. i in fact argued that point with him. he chose to ignore it and state that i didn't.I don't understand what you're complaining about?

[Cloud No.9]

basicly he skewed a things to fix his own views. i could easily paraphrase anything he says as "i don't mind because i'm a right wing nut case with a knife to grind." but it's not correct or even polite. that is what i am complaining about.

[eestlinc]

Why not simply ban everyone with low competence? Of course, that would mean that no staff members would be able to access EoEO and EotW. :-/
I'm not saying the staff is incontinent...

[Yamaneko]

We encompass various continents. We could use an Antartican, though.

[Raistlin]

raistlin i never wrote that quote that you put down as me. your problem is exactly that.
Obviously, since it was at least semi-coherent.


basicly he skewed a things to fix his own views. i could easily paraphrase anything he says as "i don't mind because i'm a right wing nut case with a knife to grind." but it's not correct or even polite. that is what i am complaining about.
In one of the threads, it was mentioned "what would happen under a pure lasseiz-faire system?" You said(paraphrasing): "it's been documented - in Britain it was the height of typhoid, child labor, *insert random acts of evil here*"

I'm sure you wouldn't want me to ask someone to dig out the exact quote to make you look even more foolish.

EDIT: Basically, you made wild claims without any modicum of evidence. You did not explain how capitalism could cause the spread of disease or an increase in child labor or any other sort of evil, or even that it did.

[Teek]

basicly he skewed a things to fix his own views. i could easily paraphrase anything he says as "i don't mind because i'm a right wing nut case with a knife to grind." but it's not correct or even polite. that is what i am complaining about.It's hard to keep reminding you that Rasitlin is not really "right wing".

[Raistlin]

The Redneck called me a liberal. :D

[eestlinc]

Raistlin's more of a libertarian.

[Raistlin]

Pretty much. More specifically, I'm an economic conservative, and a social liberal. Take half of what each side spouts, and combine them, and you have a consistent political philosophy.

[Yamaneko]

I'm hungry.

[Raistlin]

Eat your shirt. Oh wait, you don't have one.

[Teek]

Raistlin's more of a libertarian.As we all should be. =P

Does that make us (the libertarians) ...center nuts? What?

[Raistlin]

It makes us the cool kids who say no to drugs.

[Teek]

It makes us the cool kids who say no to drugs.
Fuck drugs, man.

[eestlinc]

but legalize them anyway

[Del Murder]

I'm sure you boys can have just as much fun tooting your own horns in pms. I know that is a lie, but do it anyway.

[Raistlin]

but legalize them anyway
Damn straight.

I love how mods spam up a thread, then another mod comes in and says stop spamming. :p

[eestlinc]

we're having a legitimate philosophical discussion.

[-N-]

Let's make fun of Peegee and his flirting with utilitarianism, then. :p

[Del Murder]

I love how mods spam up a thread, then another mod comes in and says stop spamming. :p
We create these inconsistencies on purpose so that you can point them out to us. It's part of our dependent analysis.

[-N-]

Or maybe it's evidence in suport of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem, which states any consistent system is inherently incomplete, and as a corollary all complete systems are inherently inconsistent? :o

*waits for Unne to post stfu Neel*

[Dr Unne]

stfu Neel.

[-N-]

Well, now that's been taken care of...

[eestlinc]

but as Heisenburg demonstrates, the more accurately you measure Unne's annoyance, the less accurately you can measure his exact location.

[Leeza]

Huh? He's in Pennsylvania.

I hope everyone realizes that if this thread were never made there would never have been a problem in either of these forums? :)

[Raistlin]

Ignoring something doesn't make it go away. Having all the mods ignore a forum constitutes a problem in my book.

[Leeza]

No one has been ignoring. We just get to things in our own sweet time. :)

[Raistlin]

Now you sound like Yams.

[eestlinc]

we're all clones of Yams.

[RSL]

:mad2:

[Teek]

I'm sure you boys can have just as much fun tooting your own horns in pms. I know that is a lie, but do it anyway.
It wouldn't be as fun without an audience. =(

[theundeadhero]

We just get to things in our own sweet time.

we're all clones of Yams.
Yams are pretty sweet.

[Ultima Shadow]

I'll clone YOUR Yams!

[Hawkeye]

Genetically engenieered fruit food tastes like any other fruit

[eestlinc]

see now we're just getting silly.

[Yamaneko]

Pass the Bleys, please.