Jack Skellington versus Yoda

[Skyblade]

Fear and insecurity are signs of a strong heart. Without that strength, your zest for life would fade...


Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate...leads to suffering.

So, who's correct?

(I'd have made this a poll, but I don't know how)

[Aphelion]

Yoda. I learned how to get to the Dark Side by his teachings (sounds like a Yu-Yevonish thing, but...)... :D

[Shoden]

Yoda he's the greatest Wise Jedi master.

Jack Skellington isn't a Jedi he didn't teach Luke Skywalker or fight Pope Benedict XVI/Palpatine/Darth Sidious

[iluvtetsuya]

yoda rules!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Sora'sCousinTwiceRemoved]

I am not a huge star wars fan but I love the Nightmare before Christmas.

[StarlightAngel]

Fear and insecurity are signs of a strong heart. Without that strength, your zest for life would fade...

I never was really into the whole Star Wars thing.

[Ouch!]

Yoda would own Jack Skellington any day, though I agree with Jack's statement moreso than I do Yoda's.

[Spammerman]

Can yoda reach jacks head?IM indecided, I like star wars and nightmare before christmas, expecially the theme song.

[silentenigma]

CALL APON YODA.

[Skyblade]

Wow. There's a lot more people supporting that pointy-eared, stuck up, elitist snob than I expected... :eyebrow:

Um, anyway, I felt I had to clarify that this is not a question of which character is cooler, or which would win in a fight. This is solely a question of which of the characters' philosophical viewpoints on fear is correct.

[Mercen-X]

(I'd have made this a poll, but I don't know how)Shouldn't there be a link at the bottom of the thread that says "Add a poll to this thread"?
Fear and insecurity are signs of a strong heart. Without that strength, your zest for life would fade...
Well, I don't know about "zest for life," but I think it'd be hard to appreciate peace and serenity without a little fear of the unknown.

Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate...leads to suffering.Well, taken out of context, this statement may not hold a lot of water. However, if you think of it right, you see how it makes sense: Fearful people don't want to be afraid. In some cases, they blame others for their own insecurities, they become angry.
Anger does not necessarily have to lead to hate, however, anger makes it easier for hate to set in. It makes those minor annoyances and irritations seem much more apparent and turns those friendly pranks played by a friend into a thoughtless personal attack that deserve revenge and heated rivalry.
People who hate may not always cause others to suffer. However, hateful people, themselves, do suffer. Hate is a devouring emotion. It's sort of like an adrenaline rush that puts pressure on your head and nervous system. Despite the damage hate can do to you physically, it's an addictive emotion. Hateful people are single-minded. They believe they are warranted in their hate and thus don't want think about forgiveness. To forgive would undermine the foundation of their hatred. Haters tend to have a feeling of self-righteousness. To forgive would make them feel as if they were wrong. Haters don't want to feel like they were wrong. Their selfish in that way.
Hate isn't a completely corrupting disease. It can be treated so long as loving people are around those hateful people, trying to bring them around, trying to get them to loosen up.
Fear may not lead to anger, but it paves the way. Anger may not lead to hate, but it opens the door. Hatred may not lead to suffering, but it deepens our wounds. Hate sucks.

[Skyblade]

(I'd have made this a poll, but I don't know how)Shouldn't there be a link at the bottom of the thread that says "Add a poll to this thread"?
Fear and insecurity are signs of a strong heart. Without that strength, your zest for life would fade...
Well, I don't know about "zest for life," but I think it'd be hard to appreciate peace and serenity without a little fear of the unknown.

Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate...leads to suffering.Well, taken out of context, this statement may not hold a lot of water. However, if you think of it right, you see how it makes sense: Fearful people don't want to be afraid. In some cases, they blame others for their own insecurities, they become angry.
Anger does not necessarily have to lead to hate, however, anger makes it easier for hate to set in. It makes those minor annoyances and irritations seem much more apparent and turns those friendly pranks played by a friend into a thoughtless personal attack that deserve revenge and heated rivalry.
People who hate may not always cause others to suffer. However, hateful people, themselves, do suffer. Hate is a devouring emotion. It's sort of like an adrenaline rush that puts pressure on your head and nervous system. Despite the damage hate can do to you physically, it's an addictive emotion. Hateful people are single-minded. They believe they are warranted in their hate and thus don't want think about forgiveness. To forgive would undermine the foundation of their hatred. Haters tend to have a feeling of self-righteousness. To forgive would make them feel as if they were wrong. Haters don't want to feel like they were wrong. Their selfish in that way.
Hate isn't a completely corrupting disease. It can be treated so long as loving people are around those hateful people, trying to bring them around, trying to get them to loosen up.
Fear may not lead to anger, but it paves the way. Anger may not lead to hate, but it opens the door. Hatred may not lead to suffering, but it deepens our wounds. Hate sucks.

Ah, finally found the poll option. But it looks like I'd have to start a new thread to do it, so I'll just forget about it for now.

Taken in context, Yoda was speaking to little Anakin. The fear he sensed was about losing his mother, remember? The anger would be directed at whatever took her from him. Anger, especially blind rage such as the type Anakin experiences, can often lead to hatred, and that hatred would lead to the suffering of others. However, it is not the fear itself that leads to the anger. Rather it is the realization of the darkest fears, the terrible things that happen to loved ones, that lead to the anger. Fear for the safety of a loved one is not the road to darkness, it is far from it. The day we stop caring about what happens to those we love would be the day we succumb to the Dark Side; a sad day for humanity indeed.

[ChaosTheory]

I agree with Jack's statement more that I agree with Yoda's I suppose. Can't appreciate something without it's opposite. Though Mercen-X did explain the out-of-context version of Yoda's speech pretty well.

Still, I'll go with Jack. Plus, in a fight...he's already dead...how's that gonna work?

[fire_of_avalon]

I agree with both statements. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. A strong "heart" knows fear, but can face it. Anakin Skywalker had a strong heart. He faced his fear. However, he let it take over. Anakin Skywalker didn't know anything about hope, he just knew about power. He thought he could solve all of his problems on his own, if only he was powerful enough. This led him to distrust the people he cared for most. Sora, on the other hand, is all about hope. He has faith that if he keeps moving forward, he will achieve his goal, regardless of how much power he gains. Also, Sora understands that this situation isn't just about himself. There are many, many other people out there with a vested purpose in the situation he's found himself in, and he understands that without allies, you are more subject to giving into fear.

If neither character feared for their loved ones, they would have nothing to achieve. Sora wouldn't have left Traverse Town with Goofy and Donald, and Anakin wouldn't have undertaken training to become a Jedi. The difference lies in how they reacted to pain, suffering, and loss. Sora had hope whereas Anakin only lusted after power he intended to use for good. But you know what they say about the road to Hell.

So I think both statements are right

This is an interesting topic.

[Dr.K]

I think they're both very right. Interesting stuff.

[Shlup]

The rules are different in Halloween Town.

[rubah]

Oh there's an empty place in my bones, that calls out for something unknown. ..

Yoda is too stuck up. TAKE HIM PUMPKIN KING.

[GooeyToast]

Bones all the way

[Dignified Pauper]

Jack Skellington pwns

[Medi]

I believe that Jack Skellington has better views on fear.

[Madonna]

Fear and insecurity are signs of a strong heart. Without that strength, your zest for life would fade...I don't necessarily agree with Jack here; fear and insecurity aren't necessarily strong indicators of a strong heart. If a someone beset by those two things and they forge on their lofty and dangerous mission (like Sora), then sure, that person is quite brave to set aside their fears to do what they need to do (or believe they have to do). However, another person could be beset by the same things, fear and insecurity, and let them overrun them, thus preventing them from continuing their path. About the fading part; yeah, some fear is a good thing, 'cause it means you're doing something daring. If you're not doing something exciting, I'm sure you'll be bored and have no zest in your life. It's just some inspirational jazz. Good job, Jack, at that.


Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate...leads to suffering.Yoda can shut his face. Fear doesn't necessarily lead to the Dark Side. If there's an evolution path of fear = Dark Side, there'd be eighteen million little branches were fear led a person somewhere else. Fear doesn't necessarily lead to anger, anger doesn't necessarily lead to hate, and hate doesn't necessarily lead to suffering. I'm sure you can all-encompass all of that with crap, like how "suffering" doesn't have to mean that "a person suffused with fear will eventually cause someone else suffering; it can mean that they can make themselves suffer by being an angsty b*tch." I can say "Love leads to sex" (zomg) but that doesn't make it right by default.

[Pheesh]

who cares about viewpoints. The only view that jack would have was of yoda's lightsaber chopping him into skinny little sushi skeletons.

Peace out and :rock:
EE