Thingfish's Riddle

[Thingfish]

Please stop random-guessing and put some thought into it.

:D

[Mitch]

its that dude who is putting up the sign at the begining

[Thingfish]

Please stop random-guessing and put some thought into it.

:mad2:

[Mercen-X]

You see? Do you see? If I were a Cid's Knight, I could just delete all these useless random guesses. b'nooo, I haven't been here for eight months and don't have a custom title so I'm undeserving of being Cid's Knight entirely. :grumble::lol:

[Lenna]

Oh...My...Lord...

Thingfish told me random people were guessing. I can't believe it's come back to this.

Again I will say, anyone with a name, anyone who is dead, anyone who isn't actually seen in person, anyone who you can't remember the name of but know they have a name, THESE ARE NOT WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

I have already spoken to RideZeeShoopuf, on MSN, unfortunately, he's looking through gamescripts etc to try and find anyone with under 5 lines without a name. This, as I have told him, is pretty pointless. Seeing as - 1: there are no gamescripts currently available online with ALL lines from ALL characters, including the ones you have to search for, 2: he was looking for people such as Female Red Mage, Elite Guard. Now as far as I know, these people are seen all over the Gaia world. If they are seen all over the world, as different characters, then wouldn't you believe that they are not the answer?

I personally believe that the answer we're looking for, is known as something else. But I don't think it will be under a name, that EVERYONE see's in more than one character. Because then, how could you really tell which character is the real answer?

We have had constant rambling from members, spouting out the same old answers, over and over again. Personally I'm tired of it. I practically know this whole thread inside out, and when my brain gets stored with the same thing.. Yet 'AGAIN' it makes me annoyed that I'm having to put up with it.

If you want to solve the riddle, read through the thread, do some background information. When trying to answer, put some thought into it and give a detailed description of why you chose that answer. In this thread, about 2 times, maybe one, is a detailed list of all the wrong answers. I can tell you now, that every single person who has randomly guessed on this forum after I died on here, has repeated the same answers that everyone else has.

Thingfish, is NOT going to change the answer, so saying the same answers/names over again, is really pointless.

Use some common sense guys. This is a riddle, not a pre-school storytime.

[Thingfish]

Don't you just love Lenna? :D I do! She rocks! :)

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

At one point I started to discect the Riddle, but I kinda st\]opped, but I'll post what I had so far...

Paragon of a mute usurper, I.
To Occident and Orient adjunct.
Mine avocation, dearth to pacify,
By rubicund umbrage nigh-on defunct.

If you uses “paragon” as a noun then it would mean a perfect model, therefore suggesting that it is a statue of a usurper. (dearth = so rare that it valuable, or that it lacking makes it of some sort of value). This Statue, or what or who it symbolizes united a separated land. The last two lines I get the impression of a job which through a war causes peace. The war was not the first choice…Overall to me it seems that it points to a king who united a divided land, and caused an uncharacteristic war that made peace…

O, keen watchman to mine own, falter not,
To vouchsafe designs most astronomic.
Misplaced pursuit doth leave much truth forgot,
Affinity only one may mimic.

This seems like a narrative of someone who is passed away. This person is talking to a watchman of sorts. It could be a person, but the perfect watchman would be a thing that is relatively immutable, like a statue…(Why am I getting analogies from Alexander the Great and Greek Myth from the first two paragraphs?). So this “watchman” is the guardian of a secret designs which are great. These secrets are… The narrative person, he is asking this statue not to fail “mine own”, who may refer to the next stanza dealing with his “heirs apparent” are they one in the same…It seems as the third line is a warning of some sort, as if there is something fallacious about pursuing the “design most astronomic”, and that fallaciousness is only mimicked (we could also replace mimic and use parallel…) by one person…

I forgot to do revisions based on what you put up there...*forgets most of what he did*

[Lenna]

Hehe why thank you <3 *Gets back to working on FF9*

Bobby, what you said about the watchman can't be true. The watchman has been stated to be the character that reveals the answer's name. And if I'm correct, this 'watchman' is alive, and human.

[RideZeeShoopuf]

I'm pretty sure I told you Lenna that I knew I wouldn't find anything, because of the sheer number of people with under 5 lines, but it was nice to see some old names again :p

I do not trust myself to find the answer, but I will try to contribute, even though I said I would play through again. I'm still at the BMF in Disk 3, been months since I touched it :D

[Leeza]

To everyone:

If your post is to spam, then don't post.

[Lenna]

Thanks Leeza, I'm getting sick of people posting the same things over and over again, just because they feel like it.

Please make an effort guys.

[Thingfish]

Hmmm, seems the downtime on the forums cut off the last message here. Oh well, at least they're back :D

[Thingfish]

Maybe all other riddle-guessers here are having some downtime too...:(

[nik0tine]

Since nobody has guessed anything in a while I could post a random guess, just to jumpstart the thread again, but I worry about pissing off this 'Lenna'.

[Lenna]

It's not me you're really annoying when posting random guesses :p it's more TF. I speak to him on a regular bases and he has worked hard to get this riddle to it's high standard and it's almost impossible understanding.

By all means, if you feel like you could post a random guess, do so, but it would be preferred if you could give some background information as to why, where, and when. In other words, try and explain why you think it fits in with each part of the riddle. Also, check that the answer hasn't already been said.

Make sure that the answer you are about to post will have no name when you originally meet them, and that you find out their name through someone else. If the person you are about to say has a name when you meet them, and that's the name you're going to say, then I'd say don't bother. Cause you'd just be wasting your time.

The whole point in guessing is to eliminate the answers who could not possibly be the correct one. When there are definite clues as to who's a wrong answer and who's not, it's important to follow that guideline. How is anyone going to get any further in solving this riddle, if you keep looking in the wrong direction. You doing so will only lead everyone else to do so.

So if your random guess has an important connection to this riddle, doesn't have a name when you meet them and you meet them more than once. Fine go ahead. I just don't see the point in wasting people's time by not taking it seriously. In all seriousness, this riddle is here to be answered. Joking around and throwing out random answers will never get you anywhere. I've been working on this riddle for months now and personally, from starting off being a random guesser, I've become quite interested in it and have dedicated my time to trying to help others and solve it.

Do you really want to spoil the dedication that people have put into solving this just to amuse yourself with random answers which will get you nowhere, and when you know they're wrong?

[Thingfish]

:D:D

[nik0tine]

Make sure that the answer you are about to post will have no name when you originally meet them, and that you find out their name through someone else. If the person you are about to say has a name when you meet them, and that's the name you're going to say, then I'd say don't bother. Cause you'd just be wasting your time. It was this information that makes me want to guess 'the water god' in Dagguero, since he has a name but that isn't his real name.

[Thingfish]

Make sure that the answer you are about to post will have no name when you originally meet them, and that you find out their name through someone else. If the person you are about to say has a name when you meet them, and that's the name you're going to say, then I'd say don't bother. Cause you'd just be wasting your time. It was this information that makes me want to guess 'the water god' in Dagguero, since he has a name but that isn't his real name.

It's unfortunately nothing to do with him, but what is his real name, I can't remember? :)

[nik0tine]

Leviathan, if I remember correctly.

[SnoopyG]

Wow your poem is so difficult. But there's like this voice that tells me the answer is Mog/Madeen. This isn't really guessing but a hunch so don't get pissed off. I'm only 14.

[Thingfish]

Nik0tine : Remember the answer to this riddle has a forename and a surname. I doubt Leviathan does :)

SnoopyG : Your inner voice is lying to you :D Please also don't random guess. If you are guessing, please give us your reasoning and how you linked certain parts of the riddle to your guess.

[Jiro]

sorry 'bout not having much evidence but is it mekito or Zidane's "sister"? you don't know her name when you first see her. the watchman may be garland and she might be the heir to being the angel of death. also she is in BMV in discs 3 and 4 i think. i don't get all the anagrams...

[Thingfish]

The answer has a first and last name. Mekito only has that single name as far as I can recall.

But it isn't her, no.

[Quindiana Jones]

uhh, can i ask for a hint? Is the person somewhere in Lindblum on disk 1? it's just i have a small idea but dont wanna have to play again just to get his name in my head again...so yeah, is the person somewhere in lindblum?

and can the first name be a mr, mrs, doctor etc?

[Thingfish]

Sorry, I'm not giving out the location because that just leads to people looking at lists of characters in that town and guessing through them one-by-one.

No, the first name is not a title like Mr./Mrs. etc.

[Quindiana Jones]

you could give out a location and just say no to everything everyone says unless they give a reason. :tongue:

[Thingfish]

Hehe, I like your thinking :)

Well they can try looking for the answer in Lindblum, but the actual answer I'm looking for, i.e. the first name and last name of this character, won't be found there...

;)

[Quindiana Jones]

i know i am wonderful...but anyway. can you give me any clues (no matter how vague) to the whereabouts?


by "no matter how vague" i dont mean "Thingfish: "its on ff9" ;)

[Thingfish]

Ok, I won't make it that vague.

The answer is on Gaia.

[Quindiana Jones]

cheers...that actually deletes one of my guesses lol. right, im off to play the game again...and again....and again...stupid riddle.....

oh, and im kidding. its a great riddle :D

[Ceil]

I just got to Disc 2 and I still haven't a clue :o

...And I'm still level 10-ish with Dagger/Steiner/Marcus and 15-ish with Zidane & Co. I should work on that.

*returns to the game, seeking answers to this evil riddle*

[Thingfish]

I just got to Disc 2 and I still haven't a clue :o

...And I'm still level 10-ish with Dagger/Steiner/Marcus and 15-ish with Zidane & Co. I should work on that.

*returns to the game, seeking answers to this evil riddle*

The search goes ever on and on...

[Quindiana Jones]

i'm gonna print off the riddle and read it whilst playing...


*thinks outloud* my riddle on FF riddle v2.0 is really good.... :D

[Medi]

I've replayed the game twice to figure out this riddle and I still haven't. Why, Thingfish, WHY???

[Thingfish]

You may simply not be attentive enough to get the answer, I'm afraid :(

Best start a new game, I reckon ;)

[nik0tine]

I wonder what minister artania's first name is??

[Thingfish]

So do I.

[Thingfish]

:cry: Seems everyone's given up on this here, and only Sir Bahamut is keeping it going over at GameFAQs...

Never thought wee Lenna would give up...

:choc2:

[Quindiana Jones]

im not giving up! just havent got it figured yet cos...you know, i suck at riddles :tongue: im good at writing em tho hehe:D

[Lenna]

I've not given up oh great Thingfish. believe it or not I've still got my FF game going. I'm just swamped in college work and now that I have a life I'm making the most of it. So the riddle isn't my first priority I'm afraid, but believe it or not, it still is something I'm interested in. I wont give up for a long shot!.

[G SpOtZ]

one non-related question, almost like an interview question....

thingfish, when you first made this riddle, did you even suspect that it would last this long?

[eestlinc]

I think those of you who have devoted such immense time to finding the answer would be much better served channeling your energies into something productive. The purpose of a riddle is to entertain the riddler. The answer is so trivial that upon actually discerning it one either feels rage at the author or total disappointment.

[Thingfish]

one non-related question, almost like an interview question....

thingfish, when you first made this riddle, did you even suspect that it would last this long?

I actually believe it will never be solved. But I also like saying that to spur on people like Lenna and Sir Bahamut to see if they can do it. I used many mindgames on my previous riddle to fire up Sir. B, and they worked enough to cause him to discern a great many details about it.


I think those of you who have devoted such immense time to finding the answer would be much better served channeling your energies into something productive. The purpose of a riddle is to entertain the riddler. The answer is so trivial that upon actually discerning it one either feels rage at the author or total disappointment.

I feel rather people, yourself included, will feel rage towards themselves :D

[Quindiana Jones]

hehe, im finally on holiday! the riddles printed off and now im gonna get started on it whilst playing the game...like i said i would.

oh and Thingfish: if this riddle doesnt get solved for...like...forever, are you gonna tell people the answer?

[Thingfish]

Only when the people who have worked the hardest on it tell me that they can't do it or can't be bothered with it anymore. I doubt that's going to happen, though :D

[Quindiana Jones]

right. thanks to you Thingfish, i accidently saved over my best game :cry:
but ill live, just do it again.
anyway, i just started and i reckon it might be one of the people that made the game, because they have first and second names, and also only a couple of lines (their job, then their name). and finally because they dont introduce themselves, its the game that does. and i dunno if the "gyshal greens" etc in the riddle a clue, i cant remember, but if it was then it might be the designer, or some kind of artisty one? maybe even a script writer.

[Thingfish]

I can't be held responsible for addling your mind to such an extent that you save over important savegames :) It's the riddle that does it!

No, nothing to do with the makers of the game at all.

[Lenna]

Like I said, I am still working on it, but I do have a life now so it's moving slow ;(. But I shall have my information after a while :S! Meanwhile, I have a bigger problem, and need to sort that first. Sowwy ;( BUT I WILL BE BACK. I PROMISE.

And just to answer Pure Quin, I doubt that it would be the creators, as then they would be part of the whole game. Where has Thingfish has clearly stated in his riddle a particular event. And if I'm correct (which I'm probably not), He did give a hint to a certain disc or place that we have to look at, I'm trying to find it :S.

[Thingfish]

Looks like the GameFAQs page for my riddle has bitten the dust through underuse...:(

I don't remember giving a clue to a certain location of disc, Lenna... :cool:

[sub zero]

is the person who belongs to the name some one you can meet or some one you hear about?

[Thingfish]

Both, but when you meet them, the name displayed in their speech bubble is not their actual name, merely a title. For this riddle to be solved, I need their full real name (i.e. forename and surname).

[GunbladeMaster]

Four Armed Man

[Thingfish]

Not in the slightest bit correct. Please don't give random guesses.

[GunbladeMaster]

is this a random person or smeone we meet in the plot?

[Lenna]

Hahaha I know why I thought that. Because of in the last riddle thread you said it's not illegal to ask what disc it's on, but then that person asked and you said they could ask it but it doesn't mean you would answer it. That's why I thought of certain section/disc xD SEE THINGY I HAVE SO MUCH OF THIS STORED IN MY MIND THAT IM GETTING MUDDLED!

[Thingfish]

is this a random person or smeone we meet in the plot?

In the plot, but you don't learn their real name as part of the plot...

[GunbladeMaster]

so to learn their real name we have to actually talk to them or something like that?

[The Ninth Dragon]

so to learn their real name we have to actually talk to them or something like that?

His/her real name is revealed to us by another character, who is the "Watchman" referenced in one of the stanzas.

[sub zero]

gilgamesh?

[GunbladeMaster]

he doesnt have a surname

[Azure]

His/her real name is revealed to us by another character, who is the "Watchman" referenced in one of the stanzas.

This is such a long shot.. and don't kill me if it's been guessed before..

But is it Garnet Til Alexandros *insert number here*? Because when you first meet her, she's known as Hooded Girl (if I remember right), and Steiner...tells us.. her name later on?

*realises that sounds sucky*

[Thingfish]

This is such a long shot.. and don't kill me if it's been guessed before..

But is it Garnet Til Alexandros *insert number here*? Because when you first meet her, she's known as Hooded Girl (if I remember right), and Steiner...tells us.. her name later on?

*realises that sounds sucky*

No. As has been mentioned before, the chances are that 95% of Final Fantasy IX gamers won't remember having read the real name of the answer and will probably go "Who!?!?"

Therefore, when you're thinking about this riddle and think it's to do with characters of whom you know the names, chances are you might as well forget that guess.

[GunbladeMaster]

i have tons of guesses but no proof to back them up :D

(alleyway jack)

[Sir Bahamut]

You said you meet the answer as part of the plot. So in other words, you are at some point forced to talk to this person?

[Thingfish]

Yes, Sir. B, but you surely knew that already. That was established months ago.

[Sir Bahamut]

Sorry, I must have forgotten that.

[GunbladeMaster]

i have a question

is their a purpose to all the Italicized and Bolded letters?

[Thingfish]

i have a question

is their a purpose to all the Italicized and Bolded letters?

There is a purpose in every section of the riddle...

:D

[GunbladeMaster]

:rolleyes2
joy

[Thingfish]

:rolleyes2
joy

Isn't it just? :) Have fun!

[GunbladeMaster]

Evilfish

[sdcopp]

Ok, I'll take a crack at this. The riddle is in iambic pentametor, which is common for actors, especially Shakespearian actors. The character is a minor one, very few lines and barely noticable at a glance. We don't learn the real name by speaking directly to them. Based off of this and a few tidbits I interpreted from the riddle itself, I'm shooting for Lowell Bridges who plays Ubobo at the Fuegert Memorial Theater.

[Thingfish]

Ok, I'll take a crack at this. The riddle is in iambic pentametor, which is common for actors, especially Shakespearian actors. The character is a minor one, very few lines and barely noticable at a glance. We don't learn the real name by speaking directly to them. Based off of this and a few tidbits I interpreted from the riddle itself, I'm shooting for Lowell Bridges who plays Ubobo at the Fuegert Memorial Theater.

Lowell is far too much of a prominant character to be the answer to this riddle :D Nothing to do with him.

[GunbladeMaster]

I guess its actuallly...

THINGFISH! :greenie:
somewhere in the game there lurks a thingfish :shifty:

[vivi72]

thingfish i played the whole game twice ... wwhAT IS IT

[Thingfish]

I wish there was a Thingfish in the game, then I'd be more famous! :D

vivi : That's a novel approach to get the answer :tongue:

[sub zero]

i took all the bould and got this sentence "if ony i had a place to call home" the italkics must make another word or add to the sentence and this might be the key to finding the answer.

if no then i wasted my time!!!!:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[Thingfish]

It has been stated a few times that the italics are an anagram of 'Gysahl Greens'. Have a read back through this thread, and through the one in which I posted the riddle originally on this forum :

http://www.eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49010&page=19

[Lenna]

*rolls eyes*.. damn you newbies to this riddle.

When it comes to answering, any character with a first and last name in the game is not it. You are not looking for the character, although you need to encounter the character at a certain point in order to find out this characters name you are looking for the full name which is revealed by another character.

My theory of it is, the character which we seek will be close to the answer in question. I see it as we speak to this character, and come across the 'watchman' around the corner and he goes "that person is blah blah blah" and they'll explain a bit about them. Such as the moogle does at the start when introducing Stiltskin.

I'm probably not right, but that could be an angle of analysing some characters.

[Thingfish]

You tell 'em, Lenny-baby! :love:

Could be right...

[abrojtm]

I don't think the watchman is a person.
Yarr.

[The Second Advent]

but...it has the word 'man'

[Thingfish]

It's already been mentioned that it is a person.

[Thingfish]

Just watched FF7:Advent Children the other day. Great stuff. Wish they'd do one of FF9, then I could get them to put a tiny cameo of the answer to this riddle in it as a clue...

:D

[abrojtm]

Ack, I meant to say that I don't think that the heir is a person, but has that already been established as well?

[Thingfish]

Indeed.

[The Ninth Dragon]

Is the answer a distinct character, or a generic one (i.e. Red Mage, etc.)? Meaning, does he have a unique character model?

And what about the watchman?

[Thingfish]

Yes, both distinct.

[Quindiana Jones]

worry not thingfish! i live on! tee hee hee, luckily for the riddle, i now have an xbox that doesnt work with my tv, so i can only play ff9. yey!
for anyone: i'm just translating the riddle into what i can understand (though i don't think its all got the right...thesaurus word stuff...yes) and, if its alright with you thingfish, i will post it on here for all to read. bearing in mind that if/when i do, it may not all be correct, just vaguely recognisable compared to ye olde eenglyshe. ok?

all this because i wanted to complete the halo's...

[Thingfish]

worry not thingfish! i live on! tee hee hee, luckily for the riddle, i now have an xbox that doesnt work with my tv, so i can only play ff9. yey!
for anyone: i'm just translating the riddle into what i can understand (though i don't think its all got the right...thesaurus word stuff...yes) and, if its alright with you thingfish, i will post it on here for all to read. bearing in mind that if/when i do, it may not all be correct, just vaguely recognisable compared to ye olde eenglyshe. ok?

all this because i wanted to complete the halo's...

That's fine, Quin, but make sure to read the first thread (found linked on the first page of this one) and then this whole thread before posting your ideas : )

Now I'll get back to playing Call Of Duty 2 on my Xbox 360 which works superbly well on my TV ;)

[Jiro]

i know i would have got it. it only every known copy of ff9 for about 80km wasn't broken. (danged little brother)

Edit: i am now devoting my entire school holidays to solving or helping some lucky jerk solve this puzzle

Edit: i had it! and then my plan was destroyed!... Stupid no list of every npc in ff9....

[Thingfish]

Gwahahaha! :D

[Sain Cai]

Have to ask, but is the answer on disc 3 or after? Only say this because I cannot play past this, scratch on disc 3 :(

[Thingfish]

The answer does appear after that point too :(

[Quindiana Jones]

OK, here it is. I did my best, so please, no insults...because they hurt me inside...hehe.

"Model of a silent usher, i
To occasionally meet and familiarize to an extra character.
My avoidance, lack of calm,
By rubicund offence nearly obsolete.

Oh, my keen watchman, don’t stop or pause,
To say very big designs.
Lost discovery leaves lots of truth forgotten,
Likeness only one person can copy.

At first look, its not obvious,
yet its there, interrupting.
Different to character, my heir is obvious,
Tolerate, you do, first and together.

Confused, the rude see merciless deaths path,
Heavens flute scourged, even the focus is killed.
Yet move finder from the start,
A violent rush meeting is remembered.

Twixt conscience caught and a more to the point,
all tears and sadness is no longer with us.
At the controls of craft, skilful death knell shows itself/lets itself known.
Regular pause, will you begin at last?

Is it a what? Is that what you think of me?
Is it a who? You will deceive me three times…"

WORDS INSIDE:
Bold – If only I had a place to call home…
Italics – Gyshal Greens


I trust that Lenna, or someone else, will correct my mistakes, and anything else that i missed out.

Oh and Thingfish. I hate you and your stupid xbox 360 and your stupid TV. Now just give me your address so i can kill you and eat your heart. That is, of course, after i have tortured the answer to this riddle out of you. :D

[Sain Cai]

The answer does appear after that point too :(

That may actually be a relief. Now I don't have to worry bout pulling out my hair on this :D

[Free_Spirit]

Bobby Corwen.

*win*

[Quindiana Jones]

wow that actually makes sense...i hope its not though.

[nik0tine]

Bobby Corwen.

*win*
Holy /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. If that is correct you will have gained the admiration of many.

[Christmas]

Bobby Corwen.

*win*

Will this be the best Christmas gift for those being tortured and tormented by this riddle?

[Thingfish]

Quin : I'm afraid there are simply too many mistakes in your translation to list them all. As I said, have a look back at the past threads, especially where Sir Bahamut posted his translations.

Free_Spirit : I'm afraid Bobby Corwen is far too prominent a character to be the answer to this riddle. Moreover everyone knows his name. The chances are very high that, when the name of the answer to this riddle is revealed, 95% of FFIX gamers will go "WHO!?!?"

:D

[Sain Cai]

The answer's Father David Lightbringer, the priest of Condie Petie :D

Actually Free said this too here: http://forums.ffonline.com/showpost.php?p=950366&postcount=4

[Sain Cai]

Bobby Corwen.

*win*
*lost* :p

[Free_Spirit]

Actually, Father David's surname is Heavenguard. I had FFI on the brain when I gave that last name(I had a feeling it wasn't Lightbringer after I posted it, but since Bobby Corwen fit better, I let it be.)

Hmm. You see, the problem here is that he has effectively eliminated every answer. I can assure you I'm not 95% of most FFIX players. If it's in the game at all, in any way shape or form, I'll be aware of it.

The biggest limiter here is the fact that the character has a surname. FFIX is notorious for having characters without surnames. The *only* characters in the game that have them are the main characters, Lowell Bridges, Gogo Godfingers, Cid Fabool, Bobby Corwen, and the dwarves at Condie Petie. Since you said it's not a playable character, there goes the main cast. Since you said you can still access this NPC after Disc 3, there goes all of Condie Petie(so there goes Father David Heavenguard). Earlier someone guessed Lowell Bridges, so it's not him. Since you said you can actually meet this character, there goes Gogo Godfingers. Other than that, you've got Bobby Corwen, who fits every single clue given so far. As far as prominence, Bobby Corwen is probably the one of the more obscure NPC in the game, at least as far as his name goes. I am willing to wager if you said there was a character named Bobby Corwen in the game, no one would have a clue that it was the chocobo in Black Mage Village.

If I had to guess, simply based on your insistence that no one has heard of their name, I'd say Old Man Kukoro, the guy who gives you the Excalibur. I doubt anyone remembers his name being mentioned by the innkeeper, although since there is no mention of his first name, he's out.

So...we've got Bobby Corwen and....Bobby Corwen.

The only other possibility I can think of is it is a character whose name is not given fully anywhere in-game, and was only given elsewhere in some official capacity, like the Ultimania.

EDIT: There is one more character that has a last name, upon further inspection. The girl who runs the weapon shop in Dali is named Eve Subboard, as the little notice in her shop proclaims. She is not present after Disc 3(Part-Time Worker Mary takes over the shop at that point), so once again, she's out.

[Sir Bahamut]

Actually, the name of the answer is given by a character in the game(ie. the 'watchman') so it's nothing about the Ultimania. Eve Subboard is also ruled out thusly, although I suppose also for the reason you pointed out.

Old Man Kukuro is a very good find though, although as you said, if there's no first name, he's out. The only other full name I could find was one Roodle Faux, but he was never shown in the game, his name was just written on an advertisement.

[Free_Spirit]

Well like I said, if it's in the game, it's in my memory somewhere, so it's just a matter of drudging it up. Worse comes to worse, I'll go through the game again like some of the others here. I have not yet begun to fight!

Also, after looking at more than the riddle itself and the previous two pages, it would seem most of the answers I gave have already been eliminated by other clues. Eh, pays to read all ten thousand posts on this thing first. Really, with as much information as there is on this riddle, I found it astounding no one has at least stumbled across the answer just by guessing. Question, if someone gave the answer as the NPC is named when you speak to them, would you even acknoweldge that, or simply say they are wrong like everyone else?

[Thingfish]

I would acknowledge that, but for the riddle to be solved I need the full name.

[abrojtm]

Would it be possible for the Watchman to say the name more than once if spoken to numerous times, or is it a one-time only thing?

[RideZeeShoopuf]

I think it's just someone you can talk to outside of the storyline, isn't it? In that case, probably.

Also, it's the answer we meet in the storyline, correct?

[Thingfish]

Yes, we meet the answer in the storyline, but their real name is not revealed there. The Watchman can indeed say the name more than once.

[RideZeeShoopuf]

So by saying that the watchman can say the name more than once means that there is a high chance that the watchman's neccesary speech is not in the storyline, correct?

[Thingfish]

That may indeed be the case :D

[Free_Spirit]

Well I made my list and I checked it twice, and it looks like Thingfish hasn't been very nice.

I went through the game and catalogued every last entity that can be found within the game, and came up with nothing that fits his riddle. I have a list of over 800 names, titles, and terms used in the game, either as titles in speech boxes, or mentioned/shown in any other way within the game. I am 100% confident that my list is complete and correct down to the smallest details and pieces of script, and nothing in it fits Thingfish's riddle according to the hints he has given out.

This means either one of two things - The riddle has a valid answer within the world of FFIX, but Thingfish has been playing everyone for fools with false hints, or the riddle has no valid answer at all, and Thingfish has been playing everyone for fools anyways.

Either way, I am official calling him out and saying his riddle has no valid answer.

I must commend him, though. If it wasn't for this I wouldn't have had the motivation to go through the game with the finest of combs and uncover every last trival aspect of it. I now know by heart much more about the minutiae of the game than I though possible, such as Queen Brahne's favorite food(deep-fried bat), or the one place in the game that the Viltgance is mentioned outside of the card game(a crew member named Dolf mentions it as his ship while talking to his wife in Lindblum), as well as the actual year that the game takes place in, according to the FFIX chronology(exactly 1800), and hundreds of other interesting bits of info. Unfortunately, none of this has anything to do with the answer to Thingfish's riddle whatsoever.

Unless the answer is Lav Layderce or one of the dwarves, the only full names not guessed so far, then Thingfish is running us around in circles and probably laughing his head off.

If you like, I can post my list here(it's very, very big, not only detailing every entity within the game, but a description and location as well) and Thingfish can confirm or deny his answer within the list.

[Sir Bahamut]

Commendable work, Free_Spirit; you have done what the rest of us have not had the time or patience to do, and for that I(we) are thankful!

I do not however agree that Thingfish is fooling us. As detailed as you think you have been, you might have missed just the one thing which reveals the answers name, and then it's all in vain. Perhaps you forgot that you could backtract to somewhere at one point and get new conversations from people, or something similar.

On the other hand, Thingfish might be fooling us in the sense that he's got us to believe in certain core assumptions which are not actually confirmed by him. Thingfish is sly as a devil, but he's always had a perfect answer to his riddles.

As for your list, I would be pleased if I could see it. You could post it all here, although since that might just spur on a ton of random guesses, perhaps send it to me in a private message? Whatever, I merely wish to see if you haven't missed something.

[Jiro]

hey! don't cheat! if it has to be posted, it should be posted for everyone.

[Sir Bahamut]

I didn't mean it like that, sorry. Anyone else who wants to see it should naturally be allowed to see it. It's just that posting the full thing here will incite more people to randomly guess than if it's PM'd.

Well, whatever. It's not my call anyway.

[Thingfish]

No need to see the list, Sir. B, and no need for you to do any more work...because...

...IT'S OVER!!!!...

...the riddle has been answered!!!!...

...and Free_Spirit is the winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The answer is indeed 'Lav Layderce'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

:D :D :D


I shall now repost the riddle and provide my long-awaited explanation!

[Thingfish]

...Riddle explanation deleted at Free_Spirit's request...

[Thingfish]

I can imagine Sir. B. and Tiffy's surprise right now...

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I am released from this burden, as is everyone else!

Well done, Free_Spirit! As you can now see, I don't cheat either, and naturally there was always an answer to the riddle! Shame you only got it by process of eliminating names from a list and trying to matching ideas to the riddle and not by working out the whole riddle itself, but nevertheless, I couldn't really allow it to carry on after you'd posted the name of the answer as, once I eventually revealed it, you would have felt rather cheated.

I'm guessing the others who spent hours working out the intricacies feel a little cheated now, but, to be honest, I really don't think all the difficulties in the riddle were going to be worked out to provide the answer. It was likely so complex that it would put people off working it out and push them rather towards looking through name lists to find characters that might fit. No matter, the complexity is where I remain the winner even though the answer has been given :D
:D :D :D

[Christmas]

Best Christmas present, ever.


:save:Free_Spirit:save:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6453/bigrigswinner0uu.jpg

[Thingfish]

Hehehe.

Or Mwahahahaha! :D

[Free_Spirit]

Holy crap. Didn't see that one coming.

I actually do feel bad, since I did want to figure out the riddle's meanings as it relates to the answer myself(as of this moment, I have'nt actually looked at the explanation yet), but just wanted to confirm it had an answer first. I had of course spent many long hours pondering the riddle itself, as well as the ponderous amount of reasoning that went on here(and I am willing to bet my interpretations for much of the riddle is in fact mostly correct, now that I am connecting the conductor to the riddle). Hell, I feel cheated and I'm the one that got it. How ironic is that?

Anyways, since the riddle is solved, I guess there's no harm to post my list, other than the harm such a massive text dump would do to the thread mechanics. It is in fact a very interesting list to read through if you're a fan of FFIX trivia like I am. I'll format it and post it up in a bit.

And personally, I think it would be cool if you deleted your reasoning and let me give my own reasoning to the answer, since I haven't yet read yours. I know from personal experience that it's disheartening to have someone guess the right answer to a riddle without reasoning. I don't think too many people have seen it yet, and at least me giving some explanation would keep any "No fair cheater" lines to a minimum.

[Thingfish]

Ok, Free_Spirit, I've removed the explanation, and I commend you for wanting to give reasoning. Please continue!

:D

[Free_Spirit]

Here's the spreadsheet format of the list. Hope the attachment is accessible.

[Sain Cai]

http://webhostingtalk.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Free_Spirit]

^Are you able to view the attachment, or is that just a wtf at my extensive list?



Okay! Here's the reasoning I managed to come up with as I read through this thing during the more tedious parts of my most recent playthrough of FFIX:

Paragon of a mute usurper, I.

The conductor traditionaly does not say anything while conducting an orchestra, and instead lets his hands do the talking. Since the conductor assumes the lead role in an orchestra and is the center of attention, he is usurping the spotlight from the rest of the orchestra.

To Occident and Orient adjunct.

The conductor stands directly in the middle of the orchestra, which would be the adjunct to the east and west sides of the band.

Mine avocation, dearth to pacify,
By rubicund umbrage nigh-on defunct.

The conductor's job, to fill the room with music(pacifying a dearth of sound, so to speak), is basically stopped by the Bomb(the rubicant umbrage, or red offense) that Queen Brahne fires on the Prima Vista. For a long while I thought the rubicant umbrage was actually the Red Rose, since rubicant is not just any red, but specifically a rosy red. That line of thought led me to something in Lindblum, which is the only place in the game directly attacked by the Red Rose. Of course, this was incorrect and only fit this one verse, so I moved onto other "red offenses" such as the Invincible's red eye, the red chocobo, and the red light of Terra, and of course the Bomb enemy.

O, keen watchman to mine own, falter not,
To vouchsafe designs most astronomic.
Misplaced pursuit doth leave much truth forgot,
Affinity only one may mimic.[/

The watchman in this case would be the Ticketmaster in Alexandria. And the astronomic designs he's vouchsafing are the validity of the tickets that are presented to him. He recognizes Vivi's ticket as a fake right away, so he indeed falters not in his duties. I initially was convinced this verse must either refer to the Stellazzio coins or the three shops in the game named after stars(Altair, Vega, and Morning Star). More dead ends and more head scratching on my part, unfortunately.

In anterior regard, quite absent,
Yet present, attending interregnum.
Contrary to self, mine heir apparent,
Abide, thou dost, foremost, and in tandem.

The optional text that leads to the full name of the conductor is not immediately viewable when you first talk to the Ticketmaster, yet it is there, waiting for you to ask him about the play in the right order.

Confused, the vulgar see vengeful death's course,
Heaven's flute scourged, even focus slaughtered.
Yet displace determiner from this source,
A riotous assembly remembered.

This is the big anagram part of the riddle. I'm still not sure how to get this all the way to the answer. I do know if you displace the determiners in the verse(take the "yet" in the third line and switch it with the "the" in the first line) you can make out both Lav Layderce and Conductor. I do not know exactly what to do with all the other letters though. I imagine the riotous assembly is the orchestra. I'm very curious to see what exactly is going on here.

Twixt conscience caught and more relative grounds,
All tears and woe be in our presence past.
At helm of craft, portentous death knell sounds.
Recurrent pause, wilt thou begun at last?

The band plays music in the forest to lift the morale of survivors(getting rid of sadness), and the helm of craft probably refers to the conductor being at the head of the band. The recurrent pause is still iffy though. Perhaps the pause before the band starts playing?

Is't a 'What'? Tis that thou thinkest of me?
Is't a 'Who'? Thrice shalt thou deceived be...

If this has something to do with the anagrams, then I imagine you have to solve an anagram within an anagram to get to the name of the answer.

The two anagrams throughout the puzzle, "If only I had a place to call home" and "gysahl greens" I initially thought referred to Bobby Corwen, then later thought referred to something in Dali, or some character who got displaced throughout the game. The last idea I had was it had something to do with Chocobo's Paradise and Choco's search for home. Now...well I'm clueless as to what they have to do with the conductor of Tantalus's band.


Anyways, there's my best reasoning. I'm sure there's much more to it, but that's what I got out of the riddle.

[Thingfish]

Glad to see your thorough reasoning, Free_Spirit. There are a number of things right and wrong in there, but quite a lot where you have merely scratched the surface, so I hope you'll enjoy this full explanation of the riddle :

------------------------------------------

Paragon of a mute usurper, I.
To Occident and Orient adjunct.
Mine avocation, dearth to pacify,
By rubicund umbrage nigh-on defunct.

O, keen watchman to mine own, falter not,
To vouchsafe designs most astronomic.
Misplaced pursuit doth leave much truth forgot,
Affinity only one may mimic.

In anterior regard, quite absent,
Yet present, attending interregnum.
Contrary to self, mine heir apparent,
Abide, thou dost, foremost, and in tandem.

Confused, the vulgar see vengeful death's course,
Heaven's flute scourged, even focus slaughtered.
Yet displace determiner from this source,
A riotous assembly remembered.

Twixt conscience caught and more relative grounds,
All tears and woe be in our presence past.
At helm of craft, portentous death knell sounds.
Recurrent pause, wilt thou begun at last?

Is't a 'What'? Tis that thou thinkest of me?
Is't a 'Who'? Thrice shalt thou deceived be...

====================================================

The answer is indeed Lav Layderce!!

It's not surprising a number of people guessing at the riddle would say "Who!?", since his name is only mentioned at one single point in the game, and that being near the very start when Vivi tries to get a ticket to get into the castle to see the play performed by Zidane and the Tantalus troupe!


Ok, here is the full analysis, line by line :


"Paragon of a mute usurper, I."

Lav Layderce, as an actual character, is not explicitly heard or seen in FFIX at all, although it is clear that he is the Conductor of the Prima Vista band, a character who says a couple of lines just before and after the crash into Evil Forest. Since it is not explicit, in this sense the character Lav Layderce is mute.

The mention of him accompanying/composing the music for the performers of Tantalus causes him to usurp the position of the one man who actually did compose the music for it, and all the previous Final Fantasy games, the superb Nobuo Uematsu. In the phrase 'a mute usurper', the first seven letters are an anagram of Uematsu.

Layderce is the only character given the role of creating the accompaniment/composition of the music, thus he is a paragon of Uematsu's role within the game itself.

----------------------------------------------------

"To Occident and Orient adjunct."

He accompanies the performers of Tantalus who, according to the Ticketmaster, are "from Lindblum, the regency to the West", hence 'Occident'. There may be other connections to the East (such as him being in Alexandria on the airship), but, in mythology, Tantalus was a king from the land of Phrygia in Asia Minor, which is in the East, hence 'Orient' here. (see http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/tantalus.html )

----------------------------------------------------

"Mine avocation, dearth to pacify,"

Layderce's job is to create music that compliments the stage performance of the Tantalus theatre troupe. This line, in a similar way to the second last line of the riddle, relates to its use in complimenting the tragedy of the play 'I Wanna Be Your Canary', the dearth being to do with the lines Blank speaks :

"Bereft of father! Bereft of mother! Marcus! Thou hast lost even thy love!"

but also having to do with the idea of him opposing the dearth of sound created by silence, defying it through the creation of musical noises.

----------------------------------------------------

"By rubicund umbrage nigh-on defunct."

The main piece of music attributed to him (in any of the articles I have found listing his name) is the 'Interlude/Prima Vista band' theme which is the piece being played on the band's balcony when Garnet drops through the roof and nearly knocks over a couple of band members in her efforts to run away from Zidane into the hold of the ship. In doing so, she causes the performance of the piece to be nearly ruined (nigh-on defunct), although the band get back on track :)

The phrase 'rubicund umbrage' (literally 'red shade/darkness') refers to a translation of the word 'Garnet' meaning 'A dark to very dark red.' (see http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Garnet )

----------------------------------------------------

"O, keen watchman to mine own, falter not,
To vouchsafe designs most astronomic."


These two lines are directed at the Ticketmaster in Alexandria, who is the only character in the game to mention Lav Layderce's name ("mine own"). I suppose it is a slight use of artistic license, but this is more an idea of what the player of the game wishes Vivi to be allowed to do, when he stammers 'Uh... Umm...' and hands over his ticket. He hopes the Ticketmaster will deign to let him in to, literally, 'see the stars' (i.e. vouchsafe Vivi's own astronomic designs) and be allowed in to see the star actors performing.

The Ticketmaster, however, is shrewd (keen) in that he realises almost immediately that Vivi's ticket to the play is a fake.

----------------------------------------------------

"Misplaced pursuit doth leave much truth forgot,"

If you, the game-player, when playing as Vivi and standing at the ticket booth, do not choose the option 'What kind of troupe is Tantalus?', you will never hear the name Lav Layderce in the rest of the game! Much truth (i.e. the answer to this riddle) will indeed be forgotten!!

----------------------------------------------------

"Affinity only one may mimic."

Again relating back to the affinity between Lav Layderce (one, as in 'one person alone' but also as in 'I'/'me') and Nobuo Uematsu in terms of the game's music.

----------------------------------------------------

"In anterior regard, quite absent,"

This can be taken to mean something like Lav Layderce is not seen / not physically present 'at first glance' or 'on initial inspection', but also relates to the phrase 'anterior regard' being another way of saying 'First View' or 'Prima Vista', i.e. Lav Layderce as an explicit character is absent in the Prima Vista (since it is not made certain, by attributing the name to a specific physical character, that he is the 'Conductor' on board the ship).

----------------------------------------------------

"Yet present, attending interregnum."

He may not explicitly be physically present, yet his music is, in the form of the 'Interlude/Prima Vista band' theme.

The phrase 'attending interregnum' has myriad meanings :

a) It can be interpreted as 'being present in a pause/interlude' (i.e. the piece of music)

b) It can be seen as Layderce's presence and accompaniment of the theatre group 'between kings/kingdoms', i.e. either between the regency of Lindblum in the West and the kingdom of Phrygia, Tantalus' home, in the East; or between Lindblum and the kingdom of Alexandria, where the play 'I Wanna Be Your Canary' is held.

c) It can also be seen as Layderce providing accompaniment at the court of Lindblum, which is a regency. The definition of regency states :

"A person or group selected to govern in place of a monarch or other ruler who is absent, disabled, or still in minority." or "The period during which a regent governs."

Thus, since there is no king in Lindblum (or even since Cid is transformed into a small frog/oglop, i.e. in minority), Lindblum itself can be seen to be an 'interregnum'.

----------------------------------------------------

"Contrary to self, mine heir apparent,
Abide, thou dost. Foremost, and in tandem."

Unlike Lav Layderce himself, his musical piece, the 'Interlude/Prima Vista band' theme, is explicitly present on the ship. He created it, so it is heir to his musical talents.

The second line is a rather cunning intricacy when you consider it in the sense 'Abide, thou dost. Foremost, and in tandem. OST stands for 'Original Soundtrack', and if you look on the Final Fantasy IX soundtrack, Disc 1 (foremost) and Track 11 (in tandem), you will find this piece of music!! :) Ooh, that was evil of me!! :D

----------------------------------------------------

"Confused, the vulgar see vengeful death's course,
Heaven's flute scourged, even focus slaughtered."

This verse took a long time to create and is rather complicated to explain. It basically can be interpreted in both a superficial and a complex manner:

The 'vulgar' mentioned is directed, in an entirely non-derogatory way, at those reading this riddle who do not manage to go deeper into its hidden meanings and are thus confused. On the surface of this line, they can read into it the numerous deaths of revenge throughout the game, the defeat of the Wind Shrine guardian (Heaven's flute scourged) or Garnet's loss of concentration (focus).

However, those who look deeper into this will notice that 'Confused, the vulgar see', 'vengeful death's course', 'Heaven's flute scourged' and 'even focus slaughtered' are all actually anagrams of each other!! Furthermore, they are all an anagram of the phrase :

"The vale of genus Cedrus."

At this point, even those who did look deeply into this might be confused, but read on! :)

----------------------------------------------------

"Yet displace determiner from this source,
A riotous assembly remembered."

In English grammar, a 'determiner' is one of a limited class of noun modifiers that determine the referents of noun phrases. In the sentence 'The vale of genus Cedrus', the determiner is the word 'The'. If you remove (displace) this word from the sentence (source), you are left with :

"Vale of genus Cedrus."

Now then. Another word for 'genus Cedrus' is simply 'cedar', the tree. Another word for 'vale' is 'valley'.

If you put them together, you get :

"Cedar valley"

which is an anagram of 'Lav Layderce'!! : )))


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!


Hehe...

All of this can be seen as 're-membering' (i.e. putting back together) a 'riotous assembly' (jumble of letters).

----------------------------------------------------

"Whew, now that the tough part is out of the way, the final verse should be easy!", I hear you say...

I might urge you to think again : ))))

----------------------------------------------------

"Twixt conscience caught and more relative grounds,
All tears and woe be in our presence past."


I would be hoping by now that, for those amongst you who look deeper into riddles than most, the rhythm and rhyme of this one might have told you something of its structure. It is, in fact, written in iambic pentameter which, apart from a couple of stresses (trochees, spondees) put in more unusual places, means each line in the riddle is split in to 10 syllables, 5 sets of 2.

This is a technique which, although still used occasionally in more modern times, is most prevalent in the era of William Shakespeare, and these first two lines of the final verse are also Shakespearian in that they relate directly to his most famous tragedy, Hamlet.

The first line is derived from the quote :

"...I'll have grounds more relative than this : the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king." (Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, Act III, Scene I, Lines 607/608/609)

It is designed to make you concentrate on the the item between (twixt) 'conscience caught and more relative grounds', i.e. 'the play.' itself. It is, after all, in the plays performed by Tantalus that Lav Layderce provides his musical accompaniment.



The second line's meanings are as follows :

a) On the surface, it can simply mean 'In the presence of Lav Layderce and his music, all unhappiness can be forgotten/spirited away by the beauty of the music'.

b) However, in a more complex fashion, this line reiterates the connection of this idea to Tantalus and its members.

The beginning of the line is a further reference to Hamlet :

"Like Niobe, all tears" (Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene II, Line 149)

and can be explained thus :

"In Greek Mythology, Niobe, after boasting that she had more children than Leto, suffered the killing of her own children by Artemis and Apollo. In her excessive grief, she desired Zeus to turn her into stone. The god complied with her request, and metamorphosed her into stone, which still shed tears in sorrow for the slain children."

Niobe, whose name can also be seen in the riddle as an anagram in the line :

"All tears and woe be in our presence past"

was, in fact, the daughter of the real-life Phrygian King, Tantalus, and was, as explained above, turned to stone.

Blank, metaphorically a 'son of Tantalus', was also turned to stone in the petrification of the Evil Forest.


It seems to me that the makers of Final Fantasy IX had been thinking VERY deeply about the history that surrounds every small part of it!!


Moreover, both the first two lines of this verse can be related to the section immediately after the escape from the Evil Forest when the party are sitting around their campfire. They are sitting on grounds still near to the Forest (relative in terms of location). Between (twixt) the time Zidane had caught the World Map thrown by Blank (conscience as in knowledge of the surrounding area) and the party arriving at the campfire spot, all their tears for Blank have been cried out (and are thus now in the past).

----------------------------------------------------

"At helm of craft, portentous death knell sounds."


'At helm of craft' can by explained thus :

a) The directing/conducting of Lav Layderce's craft (music),
b) Being at the height of his craft (i.e. accompanying the 'star performers' of Tantalus)
c) Performing in the two places in Gaia which are the height of the craft of construction, Lindblum and Alexandria.
d) In a position of importance on the craft, the Prima Vista.

'At helm' is an anagram of 'Hamlet' from which references in the previous two lines are taken.

'Portentous death knell sounds' is to do with the tragic music by Layderce performed during the play 'I Wanna Be Your Canary' precursing the accidental death of Cornelia on Marcus' sword and then Marcus' own death. It may also be seen as being portentous for Blank's petrification.

----------------------------------------------------

"Recurrent pause, wilt thou begun at last?"


The final line is interpreted as follows :

a) Blank (pause) recurs (returns/comes back, in this case from petrification after Baku and the others use the SuperSoft on him). The rest of the question is more indirectly "Will he be revived by the end of the game?"

b) Another term for a pause is an Interlude, which, again, is the name of the piece of music recurrently attributed to Lav Layderce. The question can be more like "Will the Interlude (or indeed any other Layderce piece) be played again at the end of the game?" Since the Play is performed again at the end, Layderce's accompaniment is therefore also repeated.

----------------------------------------------------

"Is't a 'What'? Tis that thou thinkest of me?
Is't a 'Who'? Thrice shalt thou deceived be..."


Both lines are simple red herrings. I can't really think of much regarding the answer that they refer to : )) I suppose 'Thrice' could emphasise the amount of syllables in the name of the answer, thus relating to the syllable section earlier in the riddle, but apart from that, this is just an exercise in diversion. It worked, by the way ;)

=====================================================


Extras :


In bold letters is the quote "If only I had a place to call home."

This is from the Observatory section with Zidane talking to Garland. He then realises : "My brothers in Tantalus [...] My home is with them in Gaia!"

This quote is added merely to give emphasis on Lav Layderce's place being with (accompanying) his Tantalus brothers.

----------------------------------------------------

In italics, the following letters can be found :

a r e n e s g s y g l h

This is an anagram of 'Gysahl Greens'. This was put in mainly as a red herring but also to reinforce the alliterative nature of the answer (Lav Layderce) and that the answer is someone that accompanies members of Tantalus, just as Choco, who is called by using the Greens, does.

=======================


There you have it! I hope you enjoyed it, not only the riddle but my descriptions of all the meanings held within it. And I hope it can inspire others to have a go at creating very intricate riddles which can hopefully teach people something at the same time as furthering their enjoyment of the game!

[Sir Bahamut]

Well...

I'm not going to say I'm not dissapointed that the answer was finally revealed due to method of elimination. However, I am quite pleasantly surprised that you(Free_Spirit) were too, and so decided to try and reason it out anyway. I commend you for that, at least. I really didn't expect that, so in my dissapointment I just read through the breakdown, not expecting you to react like that.

Based on that, I can say a few things. Firstly, your reasoning now did cover some aspects of the analysis, although as you suspected, a lot of the most complext stuff was left. I could have contributed more (for instance, I already deduced earlier that the "Twixt conscience caught and more relative grounds" hinted towards the Tantalus play being significant, something you missed), but I have to agree with Thingfish; most of it is far too complex to ever be realistically deduced by logic. I certainly would not have the time for it, due to school and all.

Then I must say to Thingfish, that you clearly weren't joking when you said it was extremely complex. It was as much, if not more, complex than I had imagined, and I had pretty wild thoughts! You are certainly the best at extremely obscure, complex riddles. ;) I don't think any later riddle can be more complex than this (if it were, there'd be no pointtrying to work it out, it'd merely be a study in complexity!).

Again, I commend you again, Free_Spirit, for being so noble as to not want to see the breakdown. I very much respect that.

[Thingfish]

Thanks, Sir.B. Glad you enjoyed the complexity. I suppose it was better for the riddle answer to have been given than for me to have revealed it. The fact the complexity was not worked out is still quite satisfying for all :)

Feel free to discuss the notions behind each section and your thoughts on them!

[Sir Bahamut]

I'll comment more later, but for now, I think you must agree that some of those anagrams were just a tad too obscure (ie. the uematsu being found in the first 7 letters of "a mute usurper". Some of those weird historical connections might have been deduced through Google, but not stuff like that =P

[Shauna]

Wow. Congrats Free_Spirit. *claps* I haven't really been trying to solve this riddle, Riddles aren't my thing, but I've been following the thread... That really was a complex riddle Thingfish... I congratulate you too, for making such a riddle! :D

[Sain Cai]

^Are you able to view the attachment, or is that just a wtf at my extensive list?

Actaully more of the obscurity of the answer, but I guess I can give ya a WTF ;)

[nik0tine]

Holy /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. It's finally done? Thingfish deserves an award or something for making this riddle.

[Thingfish]

I'll comment more later, but for now, I think you must agree that some of those anagrams were just a tad too obscure (ie. the uematsu being found in the first 7 letters of "a mute usurper". Some of those weird historical connections might have been deduced through Google, but not stuff like that =P

I don't think the 'Uematsu' anagram was at all obscure compared to the one that actually gave the answer :) It was more background detail and not something I actually thought might be able to help solve the riddle :D


Holy /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. It's finally done? Thingfish deserves an award or something for making this riddle.

Thanks, nik! I gladly accept the Golden Chocobo for this riddle! :choc: :choc:

[Jiro]

.... damn! oh well. congrats. that was a hell of a riddle. luckily Free was good enough to guess before we all died. Still, i'm going to have to change the fact that i'm 95% of gamers. But it's not my fault. No disk 1! i knew it was there. i knew it. i'll stop rambling now

[Llanowar]

HOLY /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif. I really Can't believe that I overlooked him ALL THIS TIME. I'm back Thingfish. Classes took up SO much time this semester I havent had much time, but Its time to get back to some enjoyable things for a few weeks be4 its back to the old grind LMFAO. As for those of you who still Remember poor old me HELLO. And Sir B. NICE TO SEE YOU MAN!!!

[Thingfish]

Everyone overlooked him, Llanny :) It's just unfortunately impossible to have a complete list of all FFIX characters without his name :mad:

It seems the divertionary tactics used in the riddle kept everyone on the wrong track for ages, though. Worked quite well!

[Llanowar]

I'm in the midst of writing a riddle Thingfish Your turn to try and solve MINE.

Check the OTHER riddle thread for it sometime later today.

[Lenna]

Thanks for emailing me Gav, things have been really hectic lately as you already know. Well done to Free_Spirit, nice to see someone managed to get it. Such a shame though :P now I have nothing to do when I finish organising all my files onto my brand new laptop ;D

Could have been so useful too ;_;.

Anyway, well done again but I must dash, too many things to do.

Keep in touch Gav! you know where to find me :D

[Old Manus]

For the record, it was I who told Free Spirit the answer and therefore I win

[Thingfish]

Since I put the name of the answer in the riddle itself, I effectively told you all the answer the day I posted it. Hence, I win :D

:cool:

[Lost Number]

Frig sake, man, you must have a very sad life to think up that.
But try this! My ultra hard FF7 riddle!
Richest of five
Second to fall
Birth was my death
Who am I?

Simple, but effective.

[Silent Warrior]

Thingfish: ... Dude! U r teh win! *Bows down* Wish I could think like that...

*Wild applause to Free_Spirit*

(Since this is only the second post I make with my new signature, I feel that I should explain it now as well. This is yanked right out of a certain EULA. I'm not making fun of anything by cooking it up, it has already been cooked up by Apple. I just copied, pasted and translated. It is 100% authentic. Well... at least 90%. I make no guarantee of a spotless translation, and I added a little something to clarify what software I got it from. Lo and behold.)

[Sir Bahamut]

Looked more, and I have to say, that the connection between Tantalus and Blank as a son of Tantalus being turned to stone is indeed very interesting. It almost seems to perfect to be a coincident!

Lots of good stuff, definitely, although as I said, there's no point going more complex then this, really. One thing I learnt now is also that it probably won't be viable to use a person as the answer of a riddle anymore, on consideration of how this riddle was finally solved (no offense meant to Free_Spirit). I think I'll try and make a new riddle over christmas, although this time I won't go out of my way to get people to solve it, like I did with this last one I had :rolleyes2 You can expect it to be of a quite different sort than the type of riddle like this last one here, though.

Perhaps, Thingfish, you might even have a crack at solving it yourself, for once ;)

[Jiro]

yep. thingfish's turn to guess. he sat back laughing at us (i think) and now it's someones turn to laugh at him (hopefully).

[Llanowar]

*sigh* sadly I have misplaced the riddle I WAS working on so the one I posted will have to do until I find my cryptic riddle.

[Old Manus]

This is now off topic and I must report to a moderator like the saint I am:angel:

[Jiro]

actually manus, it was me who got him over here so therefore you lose. but sadly, i don't win either.

[Thingfish]

Frig sake, man, you must have a very sad life to think up that.

It's interesting that you think it sad for someone to be intelligent, erudite, intricate, cunning and clever. I wonder how sad your own life must be! Hehe.


But try this! My ultra hard FF7 riddle!

I don't think we'll bother with that rather sad little riddle.


Looked more, and I have to say, that the connection between Tantalus and Blank as a son of Tantalus being turned to stone is indeed very interesting. It almost seems to perfect to be a coincidence!

I know, I was very surprised to find that connection and it shows how much the creators of FFIX looked into it. I can't believe it's a coincidence.

I may have a go at solving other riddles, but it may be best to bow out at the very peak of riddling skill and let my followers try to tame lesser conundra...

Bwahahaha!

;)

[Lost Number]

I don't think we'll bother with that rather sad little riddle.;)

So you don't know the answer. It is quite simple.
By the way, I do not have anything people who are intelligent ,erudite, intricate ,cunning and clever, but to waste that conjuring riddles about FFIX...you could much better things.

[Shauna]

Thingfish, how long did it take you make up this riddle?


but to waste that conjuring riddles about FFIX...you could much better things.


Well, maybe he likes making riddles?

Oh and, but to waste everything you have on sitting around playing games/going on the PC... you could do much better things. See, that can be said about anything, really everything is a waste of time, but at least he's using the free time he has positively, using his brain and all that. ;) I'm not meaning any offence here, btw. :D

[Thingfish]

So you don't know the answer. It is quite simple.
By the way, I do not have anything people who are intelligent ,erudite, intricate ,cunning and clever, but to waste that conjuring riddles about FFIX...you could much better things.

I've not tried to look for the answer for your riddle so no, I don't know the answer :D

I use those characteristics in all other aspects of my life and I didn't waste it conjuring this riddle. The riddle took a couple of hours to think up and lasted for nearly two years giving a lot of fun to many people as well as provoking them to thought and research. I wouldn't say that was wasted time.

[nik0tine]

Frig sake, man, you must have a very sad life to think up that. omg stfu lol

[Shauna]

The riddle took a couple of hours to think up and lasted for nearly two years giving a lot of fun to many people as well as provoking them to thought and research. I wouldn't say that was wasted time.

A few hours? Wow. xD

I bet you got a lot of joy out of watching all these people writhe in pain, trying to work out the answer. xD

[Thingfish]

Yes, a couple of hours, although I added a number of extras over the next couple of days before posting it. I did have fun, yes :)

[abrojtm]

So when is your next riddle ( presumably two years in the making) going to be posted?:p

[Thingfish]

I'm afraid I don't have one made, abrojtm. If I get a flash of inspiration over the festive period, I may make a new one, but I've not played FFIX for ages and am too busy playing my Xbox 360 these days :D We'll see, though...

[Lost Number]

omg stfu lol
Please, what does stfu stand for?

[Thingfish]

I would venture to say that it stands for 'Shut The F*&k Up' :D

[Keyter]

But try this! My ultra hard FF7 riddle!
Richest of five
Second to fall
Birth was my death
Who am I?

Just for the fun of it, I've decided to solve the "ultra hard" riddle.

Answer, Diamond WEAPON.

Richest of five - Out of the five WEAPONs released (Ultima, Diamond, Ruby, Emerald, Sapphire), diamond is the most valuable material.

Second to fall - The second WEAPON to bite the dust.

Birth was my death - Just as it came out of the water, it died (dunno about that really, this was the only line I couldn't give a good answer)

Who am I? - Diamond WEAPON.

\o/

[Thingfish]

Well done, Keyter :) Saved us spending any time on that riddle :D

[Old Manus]

Is it law to have no avatars in this thread or something

[Quindiana Jones]

I had a great riddle written out. I posted it on the FFIX riddles v 2.0 or something, it even rhymed! *hears all your wows* I couldn't be bothered to read the above lines so sorry if i repeat or blah blah blah...

Wow Thingfish, well done on the depth of the riddle. I would never have thought to put that much brain power into something like that...or anything really ;)

And Free_Spirit, have a congratualtory coconut on behalf of me and my pet chocobo. His name's Edd. Coconut's are his favourtie food of all time and this is his last one for the rest of the year, so I hope you like it. If not, tough, eat it anyway.

I'm actually gonna play FFIX again now, just to see how i missed it. And cry because it wasn't me that got the answer...damn you all....:D

If anyone wants to read my fantastic riddle *hint hint* and try to solve it then I'll be more than happy to post it here/make a new thread. Yummy!

[Lost Number]

Hmm. Yep Diamond Weapon is correct. Well I am not that good at riddles. So fair play to ya. Oh and the last line meant that since it was made from spirit energy, it was killed by it(Sister ray). This is top level thinking for me. I just read too many books.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

if it's ok with thingfish i'd like it to be posted here, just so we don't have two riddle threads in the FFIX forum.

[Thingfish]

Wow Thingfish, well done on the depth of the riddle. I would never have thought to put that much brain power into something like that...or anything really ;)

I'm actually gonna play FFIX again now, just to see how i missed it. And cry because it wasn't me that got the answer...damn you all....:D

Thanks for the compliments, Quin. You should still go back and play FFIX again to see the answer, since it is right at the beginning when you first meet Vivi and the Ticketmaster says the answer's name :)

[Quindiana Jones]

Will do. I just can't believe you managed to make that one little part into such a massive and complicated riddle. And that Tantalus, turning to stone stuff was a great part. I'm reading your reasons again now because they're so good

[Thingfish]

I'm flattered, Quin :)

Yes, the Tantalus connection to Blank and Niobe surprised me by the seeming coincidence of it all, but moreso by the realisation that the FFIX team must really have looked into the history of ancient civilizations and mythology etc when making the game, all for something that 99% of players (me not included ;)) would never notice!! Incredible stuff.

[Gwelenguchenkus]

That was brilliant, Thingie. You REALLY didn't need the red herrings, you know.

The part where you put three phrases, all anagrams of eachother together... that was amazing. You did that in TWO hours? Crazy.

You may come off as a little vain (possibly conceited), but I guess you deserve more praise. I can't even think of an instance of anyone creating a riddle so complex.

I agree with Sir Bahamut in that parts of your riddle were extremely obscure. Did you really expect anyone to ever figure out those anagrams? It looks to me like you were just searching for anagrams and then have it come off as clever. As for the three anagrams, which are all anagrams to another phrase (In latin for god's sake! "The vale of genus Cedrus"? riiigghtt), no way were those accidents.

Still though, I think you gave enough clues to where someone, who were thinking in just the right way about one of your phrases, could have deduced the answer. For instance, "O, keen watchman to mine own, falter not, To vouchsafe designs most astronomic." Just someone connecting 'stars' with the actor/actresses in the play could have easily found the general area where the answer is related. Several phrases, without even going into the weird anagrams, could have deduced the answer without too much thought.

Also, if you play the game normally and notice Lav's name and think it might be obscure enough to be the answer to Thingie's riddle, then most certainly, I think it's possible. I fact, I'm quite surprised it was not aswered already. I have picked al the answers at the ticket booth, and I STILL didn't notice Lav's name for some reason, but I disgess.

Anyway, all I have to say is: Brilliant! Thingie, you are amazing. A god in proportions (not really, but yeah). Soak up the praise, because you don't get enough of it.

[Thingfish]

Thanks for the praise, Gwel!

It was actually 4 different anagrams that made up one sentence, so it was even harder to come up with. 2 hours was the time I took for the outline of the riddle, yes, but the addition or removal of words to fit the structure of the iambic pentameter, and the research into the historical side of it took a fair bit longer.

No, the anagrams were not accidents, but I did employ them help of a powerful anagram creator to give me some ideas I could link into the story. As for the 'genus Cedrus' one, I started off with an anagram of the answer and went from there.

All of the sundries were really for my own satisfaction and (hopefully) the satisfaction of the people guessing the riddle. You're right, though, that some points which were much less complex in meaning were those that gave fairly direct clues as to the answer. Indeed, the notion of astronomy as 'gazing at stars' or 'seeing the stars' gave a more direct translation of what Vivi wants to do at the beginning, but oddly no-one gave that translation of that bit :)

I guess it's a testament to how hidden a character Layderce is that you didn't notice his name even by looking at all the Ticketmaster's speech :D

Anyway, glad you liked it and hope you'll print it out, frame it and show it to your grandchildren one day when they are clamouring for some classic retro-gaming action ;)

[Quindiana Jones]

Anyway, glad you liked it and hope you'll print it out, frame it and show it to your grandchildren one day when they are clamouring for some classic retro-gaming action ;)

Heh. I laugh. and smile in a scared sort of a way too, worrying about anyone who actually does that *prints off riddle and frames it, waiting for the day he can show it to his grandchildren*...ahem...

It's not right that this is over. Think of a new riddle or I'll have to...I dunno, so far it involves ropes, a knife, scissors and 6 hungry rats.

[Thingfish]

:tonberry:

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Dude, don't do that. :mad:

[Thingfish]

:tonberry:

[Sir Bahamut]

Don't you have something you should be doing? ;)

It's not like we're going to forget you or your riddles if the thread vanishes. At least, I won't.

[Quindiana Jones]

But it's so funny! :D

[Lenna]

you know reviving dead threads is prohibited Thingy!!! :P you of all the law-obiding members of EoFF should know that :p

[Thingfish]

This thread will never die. It will haunt your memories for eternity!

Bwahahaha!!

:D

[IsntFFIXGrand]

I honestly have no guess, but here's one:

Suffering of one's own revenge against someone/something?

EDIT: Wow no posts for 5 months until now! Woot for me!

By the way, good luck, Lenna, with college :P

[Leeza]

Time to die. :)