Stealing

[Beclem]

I just beat Gizamaluke and detected that he had an Ice Staff on him, but I tried stealing it about a dozen times but to no avail. I just recieved the message: "Couldn't steal anything"

Do I have to weaken enemies for a higher steal success rate or is it just random?

[SoftReset]

Um ...randomized maybe? Dunno.

Aside from the Bandit ability I know no other way to increase the odds of successful stealing. Some people say Speed affects the success rate, some say Spirit, but I have seen neither have any affect.

[Polyonymous]

The ice staff is just one of those items that take a long time to steal (or at least it has for me every time I've played through). Be patient and you will get it, it will teach you slow and blizzara if I remember right. The earliest time you can recieve it after that is on the second disk when you go to Treno with Garnet.
EDIT: It really isn't essential that you steal it right now. You can get the Lightning Staff in burmecia, then steal the Flame Staff from Black Waltz 3, and you will be in Treno soon after that (where you can buy all three staffs). So pretty soon you will be getting the Lightning staff which will keep you busy learning the Thundara spell until you recieve the other staffs.

[Beclem]

The ice staff is just one of those items that take a long time to steal (or at least it has for me every time I've played through). Be patient and you will get it, it will teach you slow and blizzara if I remember right. The earliest time you can recieve it after that is on the second disk when you go to Treno with Garnet.
EDIT: It really isn't essential that you steal it right now. You can get the Lightning Staff in burmecia, then steal the Flame Staff from Black Waltz 3, and you will be in Treno soon after that (where you can buy all three staffs). So pretty soon you will be getting the Lightning staff which will keep you busy learning the Thundara spell until you recieve the other staffs.

Ah, ok.. cool. Thanks for the info.

[boys from the dwarf]

the main thing i steal from bosses in the early game is the mithril knife from sealinon.its good to get blizzara early but hardly neccasary seems as youll be powerful enough without it.and also i think stealing has a higher chance of working if you have higher luck.

[SeeDRankLou]

Um ...randomized maybe? Dunno.

Aside from the Bandit ability I know no other way to increase the odds of successful stealing. Some people say Speed affects the success rate, some say Spirit, but I have seen neither have any affect.
The instruction booklet that comes with FFIX says that a higher Spirit increased that likelihood of success for stealing, Iai Strike, Shock, etc. ect. and increased the likelihood of success and longevity of status effects.

[SoftReset]

The instruction booklet is full of ---- as far as I'm concerned when it comes to stealing.

[SeeDRankLou]

I have several examples to the contrary. It was my second playthrough and I had the strategy guide and saw that I could steal a Fairy Flute from Hilgigars. That's a whole disc worth of time before you can buy it, so I thought that was a pretty good steal (get it, steal......leave me alone). So I played up until that point and I tried to steal it. I made sure Bandit was equipped. So I steal, it fails, I steal, it fails, I steal, I get a Phoenix Down, I steal, it fails, I steal, it fails, I steal, it fails, I steal, I get a Mythril Fork, I steal, it fails, I steal, it fails.....one hour and ten minutes later I give up out of sheer frustration. I don't give up on things very easily though, so I wasn't done yet. I tried this three more times, thinking that it was just a matter of luck, but received similar results as before. I knew there had to be some way to get this. So I looked around and couldn't find an answer. Then I looked in the instruction booklet and saw what the Spirit stat did. So, I looked at my equipment and made some changes for Zidane. Now, but raising Zidane's Spirit a mere 1 point, I stole the Phoenix Down and Mythril Fork on the first two tries and stole the Fairy Flute in a mere 32 mintues. 1 point of Spirit cut the time to steal a really rare steal by at least half the time (who knows how much time it actually saved me because I gave up at a little more than an hour, so I don't know how long it would have taken with a Spirit of one point less). So I'd say Spirit has quite a large effect on stealing.

And when I saw the guide for getting max stats, I played another game where I got Zidane's Spirit rather high. I was able to steal the Mythril Sword from Beatrix while in Burmecia before time ran out. I could steal the Demon Mail from Tantarian before running out of MP/gil and dieing. And I stole the Fairy Flute from Hilgigars in 18 minutes with a higher Spirit stat than before. So, by my experience, I going to have to say that Spirit does greatly improve the chance for stealing.

[SoftReset]

Okay then, I'll test it with Zidane having 255 Spirit and see what happens.

I've always used Pythons for Thievery powering, and I know how difficult it is to get all four items from them. By your example I should get them all in a row, one two three four, or at least have next to no difficulty with it.

I'll let you know how it goes.

[Old Manus]

It's zip pockets. Gizamaluke had them fitted in his trousers because idiots like Zidane kept trying to steal his Ice Staff.

[G SpOtZ]

It's zip pockets. Gizamaluke had them fitted in his trousers because idiots like Zidane kept trying to steal his Ice Staff.
exactly. and the reason you can't steal moogle pie is because gizamaluke already ate it.

but really, i thought theivery was based on luck or speed. i've NEVER heard of spirit.

[SeeDRankLou]

but really, i thought theivery was based on luck or speed. i've NEVER heard of spirit.
The skill Thievery is based on Speed and the number of successful steals. Spirit is just one of the stats that the characters have.

[G SpOtZ]

so... what does spirit exactly do again? all the others are fairly obvious. what does spirit increase u think?

[SeeDRankLou]

The instruction booklet that comes with FFIX says that a higher Spirit increased that likelihood of success for stealing, Iai Strike, Shock, etc. ect. and increased the likelihood of success and longevity of status effects.

[Beclem]

so... what does spirit exactly do again? all the others are fairly obvious. what does spirit increase u think?

Raises your magic defence, I thought.

[SoftReset]

Spirit has nothing to do with magic defence, aside from spells that may inflict a negative status. Even then it has nothing to do with how much damage you might take from those spells initially (like Bio).

Lou, I'll test the stealing/Spirit thing in about an hour if you're still interested, right now I'm doing homework. btw...


The instruction booklet that comes with FFIX says that a higher Spirit increased that likelihood of success for stealing, Iai Strike, Shock, etc. ect. and increased the likelihood of success and longevity of status effects.

I have never seen Shock miss its target. Have you?

[SeeDRankLou]

I have never seen Shock miss its target. Have you?
I don't know, I might have been thinking of Thunder Slash, wasn't there another one of Steiner's skills that didn't always hit?

[SoftReset]

Thunder Slash has a messed-up hit percentage... I've heard it only works against specific enemies. Lai Strike and such, they're hit-or-miss.

I'm in the process of testing right now. I'll edit this post as it happens.

Zidane, 255 Spirit, Lv.1, vs a Python:

1. Stole Ore
2. Couldn't steal anything
3. Stole Potion
4. Couldn't steal anything
5. Couldn't steal anything
6. Couldn't steal anything
7. Couldn't steal anything
8. Stole Hi-Potion
9. Couldn't steal anything
10. Couldn't steal anything
11. Couldn't steal anything

...and that's where I stop testing. Level may play a role though, I'll try boosting that to 255 as well.

-

255 Level, Speed, and Spirit, vs a Python:

(First off, two Criticals in a row against the other party members. Also, with 255 of both Level and Spirit Trance will never wear off in battle by the looks of it)

1. Stole Potion
2. Couldn't steal anything
3. Couldn't steal anything
4. Couldn't steal anything
5. Couldn't steal anything
6. Stole Ore
7. Couldn't steal anything
8. Couldn't steal anything
9. Couldn't steal anything

...and I stop here.

[Polyonymous]

Do you think it could be a different stat the increases the steal rate? I've never heard anything about stealing being more successful if a certain stat is higher though. But I did try stealing the Fairy Flute, I tried for an hour and a half, and nothing. If SeeDRankLou got it in a half hour, that's pretty impressive. Maybe a stat does increase the chance of stealing... there may have been another stat that was increased/decreased that made it easier for him to steal.

[SoftReset]

It seems pretty randomized to me, I think its one of those random-number-generator things, where you either get a good roll or you don't.

My last game I stole everything Beatrix had in all three fights. I had never done that before no matter how hard I tried, but this time it just happened.

[Polyonymous]

Against the... boss in the Iifa Tree, I've stollen every item in succession every time I've played. I think it may be difficult for certain items naturally... and like you said, pretty much randomly easier or more difficult to steal those items.

[SeeDRankLou]

It seems pretty randomized to me, I think its one of those random-number-generator things, where you either get a good roll or you don't.
Yeah, that probably does have something to do with it as well, there are quite a few of those in this game.

[Mr.Cal]

Quite a few indeed SeeDRankLou. E.g: Tetra Master. Face two opposing arrows together and both the cards generate a number. On my game - for some bizarre reason - the red card always wins. Even an 0P00 Goblin Card against a 6M2P Ifrit will still leave the Goblin an advantage.

Maybe they program a different set of values and luck into each game… ***Conspiracy!***

………Or maybe my game's mucked up, I don't know. :lol:

[Masamune·1600]

Quite a few indeed SeeDRankLou. E.g: Tetra Master. Face two opposing arrows together and both the cards generate a number. On my game - for some bizarre reason - the red card always wins. Even an 0P00 Goblin Card against a 6M2P Ifrit will still leave the Goblin an advantage.

Maybe they program a different set of values and luck into each game… ***Conspiracy!***

………Or maybe my game's mucked up, I don't know. :lol:

There is an inherent randomness to Tetra Master values, but that variability is very limited. Here's something I wrote on the matter.


[...]there are two kinds of defense to a Tetra Master card. Note that there are four symbols per card. The first (P) is the power (attack) value, the second (T) is the card type, the third (D) is the physical defense value, and the fourth (M) is the magic defense value. These symbols correspond to various hexadecimal values. You may note that P, M, and D can range between 0 (the number) and F; these symbols sum up hexadecimal values from 0F to FF. Because of how the hexadecimal system works here, each symbol has a randomly determined value. 0 (0F) can range from 0-15. 1 (1F) can range from 16-30. This range of 15 continues to F, where the value is 240-255. These are the numbers that appear when one card attacks another. The T symbol can be either P, M, X, or A. If the card has a P, it will attack the physical defense of a card. If it has M, it will attack the magic defense of a card. If it has X, it will attack D or M (whichever is lower). If it has A, it will attack the lowest number (P, D, or M) of the opposing card.

By this logic, the most powerful statistical card would read FAFF; the weakest card would read 0(P or M)00.

Unfortunately, even with a far superior card, you can still sometimes lose. The following is taken from Trifthen's Tetra Master FAQ on GameFAQs.

Quote:
There is one final possibility remaining. If a card is placed next
to another card, and they both have arrows pointing at each other,
a battle ensues.

card 1 | card 2
_____________
|\ | |
| -|- -|
|/ | | \|
-------------

The above placement would result in a card battle. Each battle has
three phases where different numbers are displayed.

Phase 1:
* Each card has a power as discussed previously. This value falls
between the min and max listed in the table. Each card also has
a defense fitting the the above chart.

A B
Example : 4P22 attacks 1M01

The first number that appears on card A is its attack power, say
70 (4 = between 64 and 79). Card A is a physical card, and card
B has 0 physical defense, so the first number to appear on card
B is its defense, say 7 (0 = between 0 and 16).

Phase 2:
# Next, the computer rolls a number between 0 and the number shown
in phase 1. This will be the *actual* attack or defense. Let's
say it rolls a 66 for card A, and 1 for card B.

Phase 3:
# The number rolled in phase 2 is subtracted from the number in
phase 1. This guarantees that the number will be positive, and
the highest number wins. So:

Card A: 70 - 66 : 4
Card B: 7 - 1 : 6

There are a few things this should tell you :

1.) Higher rolls are BAD. You want low rolls so less is subtracted
from the total number.
2.) A weak card can defeat a strong card if the roll is in its favor,
look at how the 1M01 defended itself against a 4P22.

If you want to know how likely a card is to win a battle, here's the
basic formula:

1 + Power of Weak
100 * (1 - ----------------------)
2*(1+ Power of Strong)

So in our example, you have:

1 + 7 142 - 8 136
100 * ( 1 - --------- ) = 100 * --- --- = 100 * --- = 94.4%
2(1 + 70) 142 142 142

So in our example, card A will win the battle 94% of the time. But
in the example of the battle, it lost because of a bad roll; that's
the 6% it loses.

But, since you may not know attack/defense values right away, you
can get a basic idea. Using our example again, take the maximum
attack card A could have (79) and the lowest defense card B can have
(0) and use our equation. The result is 99.4%. Now, take the minimum
attack card A can have (64) and the maximum defense card B can have
(15) and use our equation. The result is 87.7%.

So, in our example, if you don't know the values of the cards fighting
it out, card A will have a 88-100% chance of beating card B if it
is attacking.

If you played card A, good job. You would have won the card battle,
but you had a 6% chance of losing, and lost. Your opponent now
controls both cards. If you had won, you'd control both cards.

(end quote)


This is the aspect of Tetra Master that most bothers me. Even having figured out the hexadecimal system behind the cards, and utterly outplaying an opponent, one can still lose based on simple bad luck. Clearly, however, the odds would be in your favor.

Some of the statistical ideas I've addressed may be a little daunting at first, but they're not really complicated once you stop and consider them.

To summarize what's important: the first value attacks defense (third or fourth value). It will attack the third if it is P, the fourth if it is M, the lower of the two if it is X, and the lowest value of the opposing card if it is A.

As to the matter of Stealing, it's really rather confusing. FFVI and FFVII involve the levels of both the character stealing and the opponent being stolen from in the formula, but (given SoftReset's experiment) that doesn't seem to be the case here. FFV, though, used an algorithm that was almost wholly random and didn't take statistics into account. That would be my guess as to what's at work here, although I certainly can't say for sure.

[tranvanhieu]

Stealing is one of the best ability there is in FF series.
I love it.
And in FFX IU used to steal alot especially in boss fight.
And with my experience so far,I find that a boss often has three items.
After I have stolen two first items,it become very hard to take the last one(and extremely hard to get if the last item is rare)I think the odd of getting item decrease after you steal sucessful.
So,I try to get rare items first(save the game before stealing and load everytime Zidane steal a normal item,I used ePSXe,only go on if Zidane has stolen the best item I want).

[Migitman]

What is Lai strike? Is it just short for something?

[Masamune·1600]

Most likely, Iai Strike's name is derived from iaido (or iaijutsu), a Japanese martial art which involves quickly drawing one's blade and striking an opponent. Given the sheer speed and brutality involved, it seems like an appropriate name for a death technique.