do you think downloading/copying games is wrong ?

[ultima88]

well do you ? personally i do not

[Shoeberto]

For games that are impossible to obtain via retail, no.

For new games, yeah.

[ultima88]

yeh its like iv been trying to find a copy of FF9, but no shop seems to have it ? so i was forced to download it, and its 1.67G and at the moment i only have 345M

[Meat Puppet]

it'll probably be porn

[ultima88]

man i hate it when that happens, but over a gig of porn, i doubt it, im gunna keep my fingers crossed tho

[SomethingBig]

If you can't find it in a store, why can't you just buy it online? You can get virtually anything via the internet.

[GooeyToast]

yeah, that'd probably be a lot less hassle

[ultima88]

i dont have a credit card for a start, and when i have looked i found a second hand copy for £25, im problly just being cheap but, i think thats quite expensive for a second hand ps1 game that could be scratched to bits for all i know, this isnt really much hassle anyway

[Mirage]

The only excuse for pirating for me, is lack of avaliability. If they don't even want to sell it where I live, I pirate it. The same goes for movies.

[Samuraid]

For games that are impossible to obtain via retail, no.

For new games, yeah.

[Lionx]

Dont give a crap :P

[ThroneofDravaris]

The highlight of my life is when I downloaded all 4 550 MB disks of FF7:PC on dial up. No one can take that away from me…

[fantasyjunkie]

I honestly don't see anything morally wrong with it.

[Zante]

I don't see anithing wrong with it, as long as you aren't making money with it. Once I buy a game, I should be able to do whatewer I want with it, including burning it for friends, etc.

[Channing]

For games that are impossible to obtain via retail, no.

For new games, yeah.
I agree with this. Taking a new game is really not respecting the authors of the material.

[Dreddz]

I think its fine, but its probably wrong. And not good for the makers of the games. But, Im trying to make a backup game for my PS2 atm......

[Captain Maxx Power]

Whenever anyone brings up this question, I bring up an arguement about it. Basically it goes something like this. Consumers complain that publishing companies are putting the prices too high, so they copy games because they can't afford them. Publishing companies complain because consumers are copying games, and they need to jack up the prices to keep companies afloat. The main problem is that neither party wishes to stop their current activies, because both claim it is necessary. Yet if both were to stop tommorow, then there wouldn't be a problem. Yet neither will.

So my basic answer is that it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. We're on a perpetuating loop of copyright/prices etc. etc. that is going to run smack into it's own arse before too long.

[Destai]

I downloaded the evangelion series, Chrono trigger (which isnt for sale in the eu) and alot of old ff games. Yes I think its wrong to steal these things. I just dont care.

[Cz]

Hsu got it spot on.

[Tifa's Real Lover(really]

u can make copy of games wtf!??!?!!?

[Mirage]

The highlight of my life is when I downloaded all 4 550 MB disks of FF7:PC on dial up. No one can take that away from me…
...what.
FF7PC is 4 CDs, and they're not even full. Even if they were full, it'd be 700MB*4, which is 2800MB.

[Shoden]

Yes I think its wrong to steal these things. I just dont care.


Amen.


My PS2 is chipped and I have a balance of copied and original games.

Some are fairly new, most of my games are copied or Foreign but I have a couple of originals.

[Sepho]

I'd much, much, much, much rather play the original than try to get comfortable in a computer chair and squint at my tiny monitor, so I buy games if I can find them.

Most of the games I emulate are SNES-era RPGs that I wouldn't be able to easily find anymore unless I Ebay'ed for them, and I don't have the means to shop online.

I'm not overly concerned with the morality of it, to be honest.

[bipper]

I see it as stealing - as everything is available off the net. Stealing affects those who may have been collecting the game for monetary reasons.

However, when things get so out dated (SNES and earlier imo) I think the copyright should be put in a different state. Not dead, disclosed, open or released - but a category where the distribution is open, but the intellectual credits must stay in tact. That is also asuming that the hardware to play that exact copy of the game (not a remake) is no longer readily available. I.E. Downloading PSX games imo, should breach this theoretical state since modern hardware will play the game.

Bipper

[Destai]

For games that are impossible to obtain via retail, no.

For new games, yeah.Assuming you dont own the original copy, Stealing is stealing wether or not you have an excuse or a reason.

[Dreddz]

We should stop worrying about this stuff and enjoy the games.....

[Mirage]

I agree, Dreddz. Let's do the same with TVs and food.

[Zante]

How can downloading games be stealing? When you download something, you don't take it away from someone.

[Sepho]

The argument is that by downloading these games/movies/etc., you're robbing companies of money you would have spent on the product if you couldn't freely download it.

[Zante]

Most people I know wouldn't buy the games anyways, they don't have the money for that.

[Destai]

Most people I know wouldn't buy the games anyways, they don't have the money for that.So you take it in one form or another for free. Thats pretty much stealing. Which is fine among the average person as long as you're not trying to justify it or call it something else.

[Zante]

Nope, its piracy. Stealing would be going into a store, taking a game from the shelf and running away with it.

[ultima88]

Nope, its piracy. Stealing would be going into a store, taking a game from the shelf and running away with it.

lol exactlly

[Destai]

Nope, its piracy. Stealing would be going into a store, taking a game from the shelf and running away with it.pfft, same difference.

[bipper]

There is a technical difference. Pirating means you are stealing the intellectual property. When you download a game, the copyright matirial of the game is transfered from one medium to another. Thus justifying it as not stealing, but pirating.

Stealing = physical propertyl; pirating (leagal sense) intelectual property.

Bipper

[Master Quan]

You wouldn't steal a TV, you wouldn't steal a CAR, you wouldn't steal a FILM.

Would you steal A GAME?

PIRACY.

IS.

STEALING.

[Zante]

I'm not triing to say that piracy isn't against the law or whatewer. I, too preffer to get the original of a game when possible. But there is a big difference between piracy and stealing:

When you steal a car, it means that you take it away from someone else. The one you stole it from won't have a car anymore.

When you download a game, you get a copy of the file. Both you and the original owner will still have the game. The argument that you are stealing the money the company would make is also tentative, as you can't steal something they don't have yet.

The harm done from piracy isn't that big anyways. I'm sure that the companys are still making more than enough money.

[Master Quan]

The harm done from piracy isn't that big anyways. I'm sure that the companys are still making more than enough money.

Yawn. *unenthusiastic*

If everyone thought the same way and all pirated their games the companies wouldn't have "more than enough" money.

The harm done from Piracy is huge. Even if it wasn't, what you do to somebody elses property isn't about what you think the harm is, it's about what they think.

"Piracy isn't stealing" what kind of stupid /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif is that? Even if it were true (which it isn't) Would you still run around with the ethos;

"Molesting isn't killing so I guess it's OK. LOL."?

Piracy is stealing because you are taking a product (a copy) and using it as a seperate product without paying for it.

[Lionx]

One thing i do wonder is...is burning an extra copy of a game for backup or letting someone have a burned CD considered stealing?

[bipper]

Yes in new games it is included in teh End user license agreement. You know, the agreement you agree to before buying the game so have no idea what you are agreeing to, yet it holds up find in a federal court of law!?

As you can see yes, they say that you cannot manipulate the intelectual properties through any non standard use. This includes backing up - DVD's use this too.

I hate it, but thats the way it is.

Bipper

[Master Quan]

One thing i do wonder is...is burning an extra copy of a game for backup or letting someone have a burned CD considered stealing?

Back up, as long as that is what it stays, legal.

Giving it to someone else, illegal.

[ThroneofDravaris]

The highlight of my life is when I downloaded all 4 550 MB disks of FF7:PC on dial up. No one can take that away from me…
...what.
FF7PC is 4 CDs, and they're not even full. Even if they were full, it'd be 700MB*4, which is 2800MB.

Yes...thus 4 disks of 550 mb in size...

[KentaRawr!]

Well, it depends.

Are the companies still able to make money off of these games?

[Cloud No.9]

piracy is all over bad. though being a prole man i have a hard time arguing against it.

i think companies need to make an effort to persuade people not to do it. mgs did. hl2 did it. bonus content from codes and stuff on the pack are good ideas.

[Hawkeye]

Its wrong, but I do it. If someone thinks that I should stop, okay, thanks for telling me.

[bipper]

Back up, as long as that is what it stays, legal.

Nope making a backup of a game or DVD is illegal.

[ultima88]

the thing is tho, i was after FF9, they do not make this game any more, so as a result it would have to bought second hand, i give the money to the person who owns the game, not the company who made it, so weather i download it or buy it the company dosn't get any money any way.

oh and did you know that technically its illegal to even lend people games ?

[bipper]

Yeah the rules and regulations on multimedia are retarded. I really wish something would be done to give us Americans the freedom to share. I hate companies basically saying if you wantto every see anything of our game, you will buy it!!

Its rediculous.

Bipper

[Vyk]

I'm of the mind that if my money isn't going to get to the company that made it anyway, then it really doesn't matter how I obtain a certain game. Buying off eBay or getting something used in EB isn't going to make money for the developers or publishers. Neither is pirating. If Nintendo starts a revolution with its Revolution as far as old games go, I'd be perfectly willing to pay for age-old games, as long as the prices aren't rediculous. As it stands (for old games anyway) whether its illegal or not, it really doesn't matter what you do. The original company won't be making any money off of you from it either way.

[Master Quan]

Back up, as long as that is what it stays, legal.

Nope making a backup of a game or DVD is illegal.

Not where I come from.

[cookieface]

I only downloaded old games that can't be bought new anymore. Or that can be found, allegedly, but only like on ebay, and sold by crooks who copied them anyways (sometimes even the booklets), so the creator isn't getting squat anyways. New games, to tell the truth, it's rare when I actually plan and look forward to playing a new game, since they mostly all suck now. But when I do, I would rather buy it. And eventhough it's illegal to copy your own disks, I do it anyways, to spare the original from damage. When and if the blue ray disks are really scratch proof, I guess that won't be an issue. But considering new games coming out will continue to suck, I guess it won't matter. I can already imagine the kind of video games people are going to be playing 10 years from now. Basically just big chatrooms with some side quests, like world of warcraft. Yawn.

How's that for going off topic

[Skyblade]

Yes in new games it is included in teh End user license agreement. You know, the agreement you agree to before buying the game so have no idea what you are agreeing to, yet it holds up find in a federal court of law!?

As you can see yes, they say that you cannot manipulate the intelectual properties through any non standard use. This includes backing up - DVD's use this too.

I hate it, but thats the way it is.

Bipper

Copying isn't manipulating, since the original data is left perfectly intact. Manupilating it would involve changing it. Since I'm not tyring to profit by it, if that was the line they are using to prevent people from making backups, I could beat it in court so easily... But lets face it, people don't get brought into court for making backups.

Personally, I don't think that it is valid. Downloading games rather than purchasing them is theft. You are stealing the money that the game costs from the makers. People argue that "they wouldn't buy the games anyway". Really? Prove it. If you couldn't steal a couple hundred games, you wouldn't even buy one? I doubt it. Even if you wouldn't, the argument still isn't valid. I can't afford a 96' Plasma TV. That justifies me to go out and steal one? Yeah, right.

However, I do download games myself. Under one of two circumstances. The first is that the game is no longer available under normal circumstances. This means that the game's creators won't be getting more money from any further sales. It's still stealing, but I don't really care. They aren't getting anything out of it, so I might as well put it to good use. By trying out their previous games, I am also increasing the chances of trying out their future games (if I like one game, I'm far more likely to buy sequels). I'm also very careful to make sure that I'm not caught. ;)

The second circumstance is the exact opposite. I sometimes download games which have beta versions pirated early (though it's far more frequent with movies). But if I do so, I make sure to purchase a complete, legal copy after the full release is made. That way I am not denying them any money, I am simply keeping myself sane by indulging my obsessive fandom before the game/movie is actually released.

[Cloud No.9]

reproduction of any part of a game is illegal for any reason. it comes up in the green text on ps1 games as far as i can remember.

[Skyblade]

reproduction of any part of a game is illegal for any reason. it comes up in the green text on ps1 games as far as i can remember.

Ah, see, now that I couldn't weasel my way out of. That's why I make sure that I don't get caught. I still haven't heard of someone being brought to court for making a backup though...

[Cloud No.9]

but do you want to be the first?

[Skyblade]

but do you want to be the first?

Sure, why not? I'd love to be the one who starts a tirade against game companies for preventing us from making backups for our own use because the companies are so anal that they won't let people copy them at all, even when they put their work on something as fragile as a CD. It wouldn't be good for any company which attempted it (especially since they'd have to break the law in order to prove it).

Of course first, they'd have to catch me.

[cookieface]

They won't catch you since I doubt they're trying. As long as you don't make a lot of copies and try to sell them, no one will care.

And you know besides all this, I know people who consistently pirate games, movies and whatever. Yet they still buy quite a few of them. Legit copies that is. People want to buy the good stuff anyways.

Besides, I would find it ironic to call something like a GTA game as "intellectual (property)". I say pirate crap, who cares! ;)

[Skyblade]

They won't catch you since I doubt they're trying. As long as you don't make a lot of copies and try to sell them, no one will care.

And you know besides all this, I know people who consistently pirate games, movies and whatever. Yet they still buy quite a few of them. Legit copies that is. People want to buy the good stuff anyways.

Besides, I would find it ironic to call something like a GTA game as "intellectual (property)". I say pirate crap, who cares! ;)

:D

I remember hearing that the more people pirate something, the more likely it would be that companies would stop making those things altogether. If that were true, I'd even help out with downloading crap...

[Vyk]

Yay, no more GTA-style games..