The best non-Square\Enix RPGs?

[cookieface]

What are the better RPGs ever made that are not made by Square enix ? And by RPG I mean RPG, the strict genre, not any hybrids or action games with stories. There's the fairly well known and loved stuff, I think. But I for one liked the Breath of fire series. Just like FF, BOF had strong and weak in the series.

[Carl the Llama]

in my humble opinion BoFIII has to be one of my fave games of all time and proble Grandia 1 and 2 aswell and just for good measure id also say Tale's of Symphonia aswell.

[Skyblade]

Golden Sun.

As a side note, does "hybrids" include tactical-RPGs? Because many of these are RPGs in their own rights, merely with different battle modes.

Of courese, your definition of RPG as a game which plays a particular way is crap. While I agree that action games with stories mixed in aren't RPGs, FF gameplay does not an RPG make.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

LUNAR: Silver Star Story and LUNAR 2: Eternal Blue.

And the Breath of Fire series is well-known.

[Sepho]

The first Lunar game is a better storytelling experience, but Lunar 2 is harder. Both are worth your time.

Breath of Fire 2 is the best game in the Breath of Fire series, and the third one is also pretty good. Those are the only two I'd personally recommend, though.

Never played a Suikoden game, but it has some crazy fans around here, so they're probably pretty good.

Xenosaga. Not for everyone, but I like it a lot.

[TheAbominatrix]

Series:
Tales
Breath of Fire
Suikoden
Wild ARMs
Legend of Legaia
Lufia
Ys

I really enjoyed Thousand Arms as well... and if tactical RPGs count, then Fire Emblem and the Nippon Ichi games.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Oh, yeah, man. Thousand Arms is great.

[Light Mage]

Gruntia! Uh, I mean Grandia.

That had a novel approach to character development. I like games that let you chose how you level up your characters. And cool things to unlock whilst doing so.

[cookieface]

BOF is known, but not well loved, I wouldn't say. Doesn't compare with FF in this department. I agree about BOF3, that one is my fav in the series. That game sure had moments. Tales of Phantasia I also thought was pretty good.


As a side note, does "hybrids" include tactical-RPGs? Because many of these are RPGs in their own rights, merely with different battle modes.

Of courese, your definition of RPG as a game which plays a particular way is crap. While I agree that action games with stories mixed in aren't RPGs, FF gameplay does not an RPG make.

I agree, which is why I define RPG by the general concensus that the least amont of people disagree with. So it's hard to really define in litigation material, but I think we all have the general idea of what RPG is. I didn't really mean the FF formula exclusively. That's probably the most popular in the west, but I then in Japan, Dragon Quest is much more popular. I'd say both of these apply as RPGs. And there's many others by other developers. Stuff like action-RPGs, you could argue on both sides. But then if you were to say Tekken games are RPGs because they have a story and you play a role, then no. I say as long as it can be argued credibly, it's an RPG. I think the biggest factor that makes something an RPG is having a lot, if not most, of the focus on increasing or development of character stats, and on story. Speaking of which, that's why World of Warcraft sucks, imo. It has no story, just random characters running around. But I don't consider those online games RPGs anyways. Not yet anyways, not until they make them better. Kind of like that anime show hack/.whatever

[Destai]

-series-

.hack//
Breath of Fire
Grandia
Xenosaga.

[Dreddz]

Dark Chronicle......

[Reine]

.Hack series
Golden Sun series
Baten Kaitos
Tales of Symphonia
Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call
Legend of Legaia
Legend of Dragoon to a limted degree
Wild Arms

[Sephiroths Clone]

As i can see most of the answers were Japanese RPGs, so here are some american/english RPGs. I think that KOTOR is a great series and Fable and Jade Empire were also great RPGs. And definitly the Elders Scroll Series.

[Destai]

Oh yeah I liked Golden sun too but I wouldnt consider Dark Chronicle... an RPG. Is more of a platformer or adventure game if you ask me.

[Light Mage]

Are you talking about video/computer RPGs only?

I once played Vampire: The Masquerade and quite enjoyed it.

[Aphelion]

Grandia and Lufia are my favorites, but there are others like Breath of Fire (they're mostly just regular games, but they can be entertaining sometimes).

[Jebus]

Suikoden.

Also Xenogears, although the Breath of Fire and Seiken Densetsu series are uncommonly good.

Plus Chrono Trigger is awesome.

[bipper]

I love the shining force series. It is made for sega systems so it is usually over looked. Very corney but very fun at the same time.
Jebus! nont square enix rpgs :) (Chrono nuttin!) (Xenogears was square) (Breath of fire I was also square)

edit: To digress, Shining force is basically what final fantasy tactics based itself off. So it is more of a tactical RPG - but with more of the classic fantasy style features.

[Jebus]

Oh, right.

I read it as non-Final Fantasy, which is all Square (In all of its infinite wisdom, of course) sees fit to put out, instead of something from one of it's GOOD series.

Anyway. Suikoden.

[Dreddz]

Oh yeah I liked Golden sun too but I wouldnt consider Dark Chronicle... an RPG. Is more of a platformer or adventure game if you ask me.
Its definatly an RPG, But definatly an adventure as well

Platformer ?

[Skyblade]

I love the shining force series. It is made for sega systems so it is usually over looked. Very corney but very fun at the same time.
Jebus! nont square enix rpgs :) (Chrono nuttin!) (Xenogears was square) (Breath of fire I was also square)

edit: To digress, Shining force is basically what final fantasy tactics based itself off. So it is more of a tactical RPG - but with more of the classic fantasy style features.

Yeah, Shining Force was a great series (at least until the gameboy remake of SF1...). I'm still not sure if tactical RPGs are viable choices for this. If you've played Shining Force (or Fire Emblem) though, you know why I feel that they should be. Damn good games, with damn good storylines.

[Shoeberto]

I'd have to say Fallout 2, because, y'know, I'm an American and those are the types of games we play here.

[Vyk]

The original Baldur's Gate on PC was awesome. Which then begot KOTOR and KOTOR 2 which were increasingly awesome. And I don't think Xenogears should be counted as Square, same with BoF 1. Especially BoF 1...

And I'm all for the Shining Force vote. And of course Phantasy Star 4 (the only one that kept my interest)

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Suikoden-the ultimate wandering aimlessly RPGs

Lunar-town, dungeon, plot advance, repeat

Disgaea-throw a penguin

Grandia-Plot predictable

Xenosaga-thankfully, the 5 hr. cut scenes are interrupted by 20 minutes of gameplay

[raskerino]

Shadow Hearts Covenant
Shadow Hearts
Xenosaga
The first half of grandia 2 (the rest was cliche and boring imo)
And I really need to play Suikoden

I know it hasn't been said but the shadow hearts series is really wonderful. I love the battle system (judgement ring- it actually takes some skill to get good at), the characters were great, the storyline was excellently done if a little predictable at parts. The feel of the first game was wonderfully dark, and the second was filled with the best humor I've seen in a video game (Joachim/Grand Papillon). These were both wonderful games, also for all ff fans some of the people who worked on some of those (I think 7 and 8) that left square worked on these games (could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure).

[Old Manus]

FFVII

[Skyblade]

FFVII

What part of NON Square\Enix games is so hard to understand?

[Sepho]

Legend of Legaia


I left this one just for you.


Shadow Hearts Covenant
Shadow Hearts

I got to play a little bit of the first Shadow Hearts, and thought it was fun. The only part that put me off was the Ring-thingamajig feature. It was a cool concept, but I kind of like my RPG battle systems to minimize the interaction. All the Additions are what killed Legend of Dragoon for me.

But that's just a personal preference.

[Destai]

FFVII

What part of NON Square\Enix games is so hard to understand?You So dont get it S-B

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

(Breath of fire I was also square)Square just translated the game and published it in America. The game itself, like all the other games in the series, was developed by Capcom.

[Vyk]

Yeah, Square's all like "Hey buddy, that game'll sell over there y'know. Look, watch." And then Capcom's all like "Ooohhhh, alrighty. I can do that."

[DJZen]

Earthbound

[bipper]

Square just translated the game and published it in America. The game itself, like all the other games in the series, was developed by Capcom.

Interesting, I belive it as the style and themes of the game just don't have the squaresoft ring to it. I just never seen capcom mentioned in the first version. Not in the booklet, nor on the game :) I'm sure I am wrong though :D

Bipper

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Yeah, Square's all like "Hey buddy, that game'll sell over there y'know. Look, watch." And then Capcom's all like "Ooohhhh, alrighty. I can do that."And then Capcom serves up a notoriously bad translation for Breath of Fire II. Oops!

[leon123]

SHADOW MADDNESS

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Oh hells yeah (http://smc.smallcave.net/)

[bipper]

Did anyone mention Zork yet? :p

[Mirage]

And I don't think Xenogears should be counted as Square
Why not?

Best non-SE? Tales of Smphonia.

[Vyk]

Because it's a prequal/sequal/AU to an existing non-SE series. Its like categorizing Disgaea and La Pucelle outside of Nippon Ichi's work because it was published by someone else. I just have issues with companies taking credit when they're only the publisher. Also, Xenogears could be given as much credit to EA as Square, since Square wasn't really interested in publishing it for us until EA lent them a hand on a few titles.

[Cruise Control]

Legend of Dragoon.

[cookieface]

I didn't think the BOF2 translation was that bad. some whiners go so far as to say it was not accurate, which is false. you know what's going on and you can understand stuff, unless you're dense. it's goofy at times, but who cares. at least it's not as bad as the first metal gear. the only thing bothersome to me were those big, stupid, monospace letters. I still thought it was better than the first game. And besides, if anyone who never played it and wants to, a romhack may be coming about which will supposively fix the alleged bad translation and the big stupid text. the page on it: http://bof2.blogspot.com/

[Mirage]

Because it's a prequal/sequal/AU to an existing non-SE series. Its like categorizing Disgaea and La Pucelle outside of Nippon Ichi's work because it was published by someone else. I just have issues with companies taking credit when they're only the publisher. Also, Xenogears could be given as much credit to EA as Square, since Square wasn't really interested in publishing it for us until EA lent them a hand on a few titles.

Uh, Xenogears came a long time before Xenosaga. I don't quite get your logic.
So, are you saying I can classify Star Ocean 3 as a non-SE game? Because it's developed by tri-Ace and it's a sequel to a non-SE title.

[Vyk]

I don't see how the time between them has any relevance. And Tri-Ace has such strong ties with Enix it's practically an in-house studio. But if they ever made a contract with some other publisher for future Star Ocean games you'd have a hard time lumping the games together with this logic :D So yeah. I dunno. Its just an opinion. But I think the games they make should be the only ones considered theirs. I realise they're almost as big on publishing as they are on developing, but I'd look more towards the ones they developed in-house to call their own.

[Madame Adequate]

I'd have to say Fallout 2, because, y'know, I'm an American and those are the types of games we play here.

What, you mean, totally smurfing awesome? Yeah, I have to agree. Britain stands with you, and whatnot. Tally ho.

Suikoden 1 & 2
Vandal Hearts I & II (Tactical, I know, but srsly these games are awesome.)
BoF III
Legend of Dragoon
Legend of Legaia (Not the best out there, but it has an interesting battle system and I really got into it.)
Jade Empire
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (I've not played I or II, but they probably rock too. And IV is on the way, so leik, w00t and so forth.) (And yeah, it's stretching the term, but I honestly don't care. It is the awesome.)
Jade Cocoon
Alundra

[Mirage]

So Vyk, if Namco never picked up the Xenogears crew, would you still not have considered Xenogears a Square game?

[Lord Chainsaw]

What struck me as the worst of the BoFII translation was the shaman fusion. Granny asks you if you would like a tutorial on the fusions. Of course, the dialogue choices and their respective scripts are switched ass backwards, so that's a very special instance where yes means no and no means yes.

And it's not Moonside intentional either.

[kawakami Gensai]

Wild Arms
Suikoden (only played IV right now, but if its the worst it must be good!)
Golden Sun I
Lunar

[Dreddz]

Legend of Dragoon.
oh lord

SHADOW MADDNESS
*pukes*


Alundra
*snogz*

[cookieface]

What struck me as the worst of the BoFII translation was the shaman fusion. Granny asks you if you would like a tutorial on the fusions. Of course, the dialogue choices and their respective scripts are switched ass backwards, so that's a very special instance where yes means no and no means yes.

Yea, but you figure it out. It's not rocket science, only two choices. That was a mistake. Or maybe it was some sort of philosophical irony done intentionally? The world will never know. But the text in the game as a whole was understandable. It seems to me to be the case with BOF2 where everyone just makes a trend out of a game they hardly played all the way through. Some person says it's an especially bad translation, and everyone follows along.

On this waste of a day I was revisiting the first BOF. The translation is just as goofy as BOF2, so I don't know what people are talking about. They are all like that, at least somewhat. We saw more improved script in BOF4, but it wasn't perfect. They're childish translations, you get used to it. And even BOF5, as little as I have played of it, the script didn't seem too sharp either.

[Vyk]

So Vyk, if Namco never picked up the Xenogears crew, would you still not have considered Xenogears a Square game?
Touché :D

[Giga Guess]

I love .Hack....it's a great series.

[black orb]

>>> Suikoden.

[Destai]

I love .Hack....it's a great series.

[I Took the Red Pill]

Star Ocean: The Second Story. One of the first RPGs I ever played, and I loved it.

[crashNUMBERS]

[TR][TD]
So just RPG's. No turn based grid game's like Fire Emblem and Makai Kingdom??

[Rengori]

[TR][TD]
So just RPG's. No turn based grid game's like Fire Emblem and Makai Kingdom??


1. Makai Kingdom has no grid.
2. Both of those are RPGs.
3. Disgaea is much better anyway.

[crashNUMBERS]

[TR][TD]
So just RPG's. No turn based grid game's like Fire Emblem and Makai Kingdom??


1. Makai Kingdom has no grid.
2. Both of those are RPGs.
3. Disgaea is much better anyway.

[TR][TD]
1. Oh. Just assumed since it's a turn based game like FE
2. But he said RPG's RPG's. He never specified what RPG's he is actually talking about
3. Goddamnit

[Rengori]

1. Good Crash.
2. An RPG is an RPG, even if it's a strategy based one.
3. It is!

[crashNUMBERS]

[TR][TD]
Alright Alright...

[Destai]

[TR][TD]
Yay!

[crashNUMBERS]

[TR][TD]
Yay!


[TR][TD]
No

[Rengori]

<>

Edit by Kishi: Don't spread the tables with crash's crap and also get back on-topic.

[crashNUMBERS]

Don't spread the tables with crash's crap a
:( Crap??

[Destai]

Don't spread the tables with crash's crap a
:( Crap??Crap a? :confused:

[Rengori]

and also get back on-topic.

[crashNUMBERS]

Yeah well Fire Emblem 6 is a kick ass game. Best FE game IMO...

[Rengori]

Yeah well Fire Emblem 6 is a kick ass game. Best FE game IMO...
FE7 is clearly much better.

[kikimm]

Xenosaga. :bigsmile: