Damn Yankee Land!

[Chris]

TILL HELL WITH ALL YOU YANKEES! >:O

Topic: America = World domination?

[Old Manus]

wtf

[Dignified Pauper]

ignorance is bliss and funny

[Chris]

And candy is soft and sweet. But that ain't my point! >:O

America? Any thought?

[Alive-Cat]

Ahhhh, isn't this like evil? Pretty cold thread i'd say lol

[crazybayman]

Topic: America = World domination? [/FONT]
OMG TEH USA IS LIEK DA CENTER OF DA UNIVERSE!!!

Seriously though, no.

Like the Roman Empire, those who rise, will eventually fall.

Not that it'll collapse under invasion from other countries or terrorists, or even have a complete collapse of the economy. At some point the US will lose a great deal of its power and influence, and other countries will rise. This will probably happen gradually.

In a way, this also happened with Great Britain. While still powerful, they don't "Dominate" the world like they did a few hundred years ago, when they literally owned Canada, the US, Australia, etc.

[RPJesus]

It'll probably collapse eventually. It's rotting from the inside. Hollywood may give us this lovely, clean image of America, but inreality it's quite different- deteriorating schools, 1/3 population without healthcare, record unemployment, corporate fraud at record heights... America is strangling itself, thanks to Furher Bush and the Nazipublicans. The next big power'll be Japan or China. Japan may not be big militarily, but it's incredibly wealthy. The US prefers funding other armies to using their own, and Japan could easily do the same. Only Japan would probably be less evil. Of course, Attila the Hun was slightly less evil than Bush...

[Flying Mullet]

Yankee != America :mad2:

[DMKA]

Must...not...say...it.

[CaZ!]

whats wrong with yankees i mean i ain't one but theres nout wrong with them

[DMKA]

whats wrong with yankees
They're a baseball team, and baseball sucks.

[Old Manus]

I hear you.

[Chris]

When I was younger I always confused "Yankees" with "Aussies" naturally, they're one and the same thing... almost. :D

[boris no no]

yankee doodle went to town
riding on a poney
he stucka feather in his cap
and called it macaroni

:D

[Sasquatch]

It'll probably collapse eventually. It's rotting from the inside. Hollywood may give us this lovely, clean image of America, but inreality it's quite different- deteriorating schools, 1/3 population without healthcare, record unemployment, corporate fraud at record heights... America is strangling itself, thanks to Furher Bush and the Nazipublicans. The next big power'll be Japan or China. Japan may not be big militarily, but it's incredibly wealthy. The US prefers funding other armies to using their own, and Japan could easily do the same. Only Japan would probably be less evil. Of course, Attila the Hun was slightly less evil than Bush...

Actually, genius. No. There is no record unemployment, so you need to do some research there. The population without healthcare doesn't matter, because it's not the government's responsibility to take care of every aspect of every private citizen. Corporate fraud has taken place for decades, it's only the media that has tried to tie Enron to Bush that those that don't know much about politics that think corporate fraud is such a new thing. Schools haven't been much good for a while, and it's because they're run by the government. But of course, you find a way to blame everything on the Republicans.

As was mentioned before, America'll probably lose power, but never collapse. We'll end up one of the stronger countries in the world, but no longer the one superpower. The same way crazybayman said.

And I can't stand yankee accents. But I live in Wisconsin, so there's really no way to avoid them.

[DK]

Must...not...say...it.

Fail.

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

Bring back the British Empire!

[Chris]

Bring back the British Empire!
So they can make us eat finger sandwiches? I don't think so. :mad:

[gokufusionss1]

Bring back the British Empire!
fuck yeah, we knew how to be imperialists.

If you opposed us we killed you,
If you worked with us we taxed you
If you were really troublesome we'd pack you off to the other side of the world to fight some other guys who were troublesome.

Are you listening bush.

[Traitorfish]

It'll probably collapse eventually. It's rotting from the inside. Hollywood may give us this lovely, clean image of America, but inreality it's quite different- deteriorating schools, 1/3 population without healthcare, record unemployment, corporate fraud at record heights... America is strangling itself, thanks to Furher Bush and the Nazipublicans. The next big power'll be Japan or China. Japan may not be big militarily, but it's incredibly wealthy. The US prefers funding other armies to using their own, and Japan could easily do the same. Only Japan would probably be less evil. Of course, Attila the Hun was slightly less evil than Bush...

Actually, genius. No. There is no record unemployment, so you need to do some research there. The population without healthcare doesn't matter, because it's not the government's responsibility to take care of every aspect of every private citizen. Corporate fraud has taken place for decades, it's only the media that has tried to tie Enron to Bush that those that don't know much about politics that think corporate fraud is such a new thing. Schools haven't been much good for a while, and it's because they're run by the government. But of course, you find a way to blame everything on the Republicans.

As was mentioned before, America'll probably lose power, but never collapse. We'll end up one of the stronger countries in the world, but no longer the one superpower. The same way crazybayman said.

And I can't stand yankee accents. But I live in Wisconsin, so there's really no way to avoid them.


Damn it, not this guy again. We all know you're a militaristic, nationalist right-winger, so your viewpoint is not exactly fair. And the reason people blame the nazipublicans, is because all the major problems in the world can be traced to them. And the US won't go down the way of Britain and France, because it's not like that. Britain and France relinquished their empires. But the American Reich isn't like that. It'll fight to the miserable, bloody death rather than give up.
In fact, it'll end like the Roman empire- centuries of corruption rotting it's insides. And then, some series of external events will destroy what remaining stability the US has, and the whole thing will collapse.
Corporate fraud has been going on for years, yes, but under Bush's corporate regime, it's reached a peak. The Enron cse isn't the only example. And don't say that anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing about politics. After all, I'm sure Kier Hardie would have disagreed with you, and anyone who says he knows nothing about politics is obviously completely cluesless.
And the welfare of it's citizens is the governments prime concern. Apart from the serious morale implications of you're declaration that we should abandon the weak and poor, because you can't be bothered to look after them (They're other human being, for god's sake! Show some compassion!), but it will cause problems for the US politically. Part of the reason Rome collapsed was plauge... and plauge (spanish flu) helped destroy the Second Reich in 1918. In a nation like the US, were the rich live off the toil of the poor, the health of the poor has a huge effect. And when it collapses it'll be the fault of you nationalists and your precious Republican party.

Oh, and one last thing. Sarcastically calling someone 'genius'? Not vey original, or witty. Try harder, genius.

[gokufusionss1]

It'll probably collapse eventually. It's rotting from the inside. Hollywood may give us this lovely, clean image of America, but inreality it's quite different- deteriorating schools, 1/3 population without healthcare, record unemployment, corporate fraud at record heights... America is strangling itself, thanks to Furher Bush and the Nazipublicans. The next big power'll be Japan or China. Japan may not be big militarily, but it's incredibly wealthy. The US prefers funding other armies to using their own, and Japan could easily do the same. Only Japan would probably be less evil. Of course, Attila the Hun was slightly less evil than Bush...

Actually, genius. No. There is no record unemployment, so you need to do some research there. The population without healthcare doesn't matter, because it's not the government's responsibility to take care of every aspect of every private citizen. Corporate fraud has taken place for decades, it's only the media that has tried to tie Enron to Bush that those that don't know much about politics that think corporate fraud is such a new thing. Schools haven't been much good for a while, and it's because they're run by the government. But of course, you find a way to blame everything on the Republicans.

As was mentioned before, America'll probably lose power, but never collapse. We'll end up one of the stronger countries in the world, but no longer the one superpower. The same way crazybayman said.

And I can't stand yankee accents. But I live in Wisconsin, so there's really no way to avoid them.


Damn it, not this guy again. We all know you're a militaristic, nationalist right-winger, so your viewpoint is not exactly fair. And the reason people blame the nazipublicans, is because all the major problems in the world can be traced to them. And the US won't go down the way of Britain and France, because it's not like that. Britain and France relinquished their empires. But the American Reich isn't like that. It'll fight to the miserable, bloody death rather than give up.
In fact, it'll end like the Roman empire- centuries of corruption rotting it's insides. And then, some series of external events will destroy what remaining stability the US has, and the whole thing will collapse.
Corporate fraud has been going on for years, yes, but under Bush's corporate regime, it's reached a peak. The Enron cse isn't the only example. And don't say that anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing about politics. After all, I'm sure Kier Hardie would have disagreed with you, and anyone who says he knows nothing about politics is obviously completely cluesless.
And the welfare of it's citizens is the governments prime concern. Apart from the serious morale implications of you're declaration that we should abandon the weak and poor, because you can't be bothered to look after them (They're other human being, for god's sake! Show some compassion!), but it will cause problems for the US politically. Part of the reason Rome collapsed was plauge... and plauge (spanish flu) helped destroy the Second Reich in 1918. In a nation like the US, were the rich live off the toil of the poor, the health of the poor has a huge effect. And when it collapses it'll be the fault of you nationalists and your precious Republican party.

Oh, and one last thing. Sarcastically calling someone 'genius'? Not vey original, or witty. Try harder, genius.

Who is this guy?

We didn't reliquish our empire it fell apart due to a lack of economic and military strength. Genuis.

[boris no no]

OMG!! WAR!!

/me dances about

i pay little to no attention to the US. :D
but i would love to have a feather called macaroni. that would be so yummy :D

[crazybayman]

Bring back the British Empire!
smurf yeah, we knew how to be imperialists.

If you opposed us we killed you,
If you worked with us we taxed you
If you were really troublesome we'd pack you off to the other side of the world to fight some other guys who were troublesome.

Are you listening bush.

British officer: Prithee fair sir, do you swear allegiance to your King and Country?

Yankee Colonist: FACK YOU, RED CO- (*beheaded*)

British officer: One who betays his country deserves a traitor's death, hmm?

:p

[Traitorfish]

Who is this guy?

We didn't reliquish our empire it fell apart due to a lack of economic and military strength. Genuis.

I you mean th French empire, I was trying to pleasant, and not say 'got it's butt kicked in a series of embarrassing defeats'.
If you mean the British empire, we (I'm British too) did, in fact, relinquish it. This was due to a lack of ability to fight long, drawn out wars against native guerrilas, as we had just come out of WW2. For example, many African nations were allowed self-rule without any major violence (though we never willingly let go of Northern Ireland, for various reasons). But, we still gave up the empire, and so, survived as a nation.
Anyway, my point was that the US is heading for a collapse, while Britain managed to avoid one. Genius.

'We're all living in Amerika
Amerika ist wunderbar'
Amerika - Rammstein

[Psychotic]

Bring back the British Empire!THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK!

(man I love that one)

[Sasquatch]

Damn it, not this guy again. We all know you're a militaristic, nationalist right-winger, so your viewpoint is not exactly fair. And the reason people blame the nazipublicans, is because all the major problems in the world can be traced to them.
Really? We don't drive ourselves into the ground to help other nations, so everything's our fault? Tell me, what "major problems in the world" can be traced directly to the fault of Republicans?

And the US won't go down the way of Britain and France, because it's not like that. Britain and France relinquished their empires. But the American Reich isn't like that. It'll fight to the miserable, bloody death rather than give up.
They relinquished their empires? No, they just faded out of being the major power. Just like America will do someday.

Corporate fraud has been going on for years, yes, but under Bush's corporate regime, it's reached a peak. The Enron cse isn't the only example.
What other examples are there? How has it "reached a peak" under Bush? You must be forgetting people like WorldCom -- which actually DID have ties to Clinton.

And don't say that anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing about politics. After all, I'm sure Kier Hardie would have disagreed with you, and anyone who says he knows nothing about politics is obviously completely cluesless.
I have never said that anybody who disagrees with me knows nothing about politics. Nice try. I merely pointed out that those who don't know much about politics are more likely to believe biased media stories about how Bush is profitting off whatever so it must be his fault than those who actually know what they're talking about.

And the welfare of it's citizens is the governments prime concern.
Protection. Not welfare. If my neighbor wants to live off welfare instead of getting off his lazy ass and working, why should I be forced to support him? If his neighbor isn't smart enough to get a job with decent benefits, why should I be forced to pay for his health insurance?

Apart from the serious morale implications of you're declaration that we should abandon the weak and poor, because you can't be bothered to look after them (They're other human being, for god's sake! Show some compassion!), but it will cause problems for the US politically.
There's a difference in abandoning them and letting them help themselves. Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish? For one thing, not everybody who's poor -- in fact, the very small minority of the poor -- is "weak", or disabled to the point that they cannot work. And if they were, there would be plenty of government programs for them anyway. We could go through a system of confiscating money from the working class of citizens to redistribute to the non-working ("poor"), or we could say "hey, if you want to eat, we'll help you get a job". One way, we're not helping them, we're only taking money away from everybody else. The other way, we help them help themselves, and every aspect of the economy benefits.

Part of the reason Rome collapsed was plauge... and plauge (spanish flu) helped destroy the Second Reich in 1918. In a nation like the US, were the rich live off the toil of the poor, the health of the poor has a huge effect. And when it collapses it'll be the fault of you nationalists and your precious Republican party.
Actually, no, the rich live off the toil of themselves. That's the beauty of Capitalism -- if you want to get rich, and you work hard/long/smart enough, you CAN get rich. There is no excuse of staying poor in America. I don't know how many times I've explained this.
And somehow I highly doubt that some epidemic is going to wipe out half our population. Good story, though.

Oh, and one last thing. Sarcastically calling someone 'genius'? Not vey original, or witty. Try harder, genius.
It's a generic line, and it's better than saying "you're a dumbass". Much less true, but at least it sounds better.

[Flying Mullet]

And the US won't go down the way of Britain and France, because it's not like that. Britain and France relinquished their empires. But the American Reich isn't like that. It'll fight to the miserable, bloody death rather than give up.

They relinquished their empires? No, they just faded out of being the major power. Just like America will do someday.

Ghandi's rolling in his grave right now in regards to thoughts like "Britian just let India go without a fuss or a fight."

[Traitorfish]

Damn it, not this guy again. We all know you're a militaristic, nationalist right-winger, so your viewpoint is not exactly fair. And the reason people blame the nazipublicans, is because all the major problems in the world can be traced to them.

Really? We don't drive ourselves into the ground to help other nations, so everything's our fault? Tell me, what "major problems in the world" can be traced directly to the fault of Republicans?


And the US won't go down the way of Britain and France, because it's not like that. Britain and France relinquished their empires. But the American Reich isn't like that. It'll fight to the miserable, bloody death rather than give up.

They relinquished their empires? No, they just faded out of being the major power. Just like America will do someday.


Corporate fraud has been going on for years, yes, but under Bush's corporate regime, it's reached a peak. The Enron cse isn't the only example.

What other examples are there? How has it "reached a peak" under Bush? You must be forgetting people like WorldCom -- which actually DID have ties to Clinton.


And don't say that anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing about politics. After all, I'm sure Kier Hardie would have disagreed with you, and anyone who says he knows nothing about politics is obviously completely cluesless.

I have never said that anybody who disagrees with me knows nothing about politics. Nice try. I merely pointed out that those who don't know much about politics are more likely to believe biased media stories about how Bush is profitting off whatever so it must be his fault than those who actually know what they're talking about.


And the welfare of it's citizens is the governments prime concern.

Protection. Not welfare. If my neighbor wants to live off welfare instead of getting off his lazy ass and working, why should I be forced to support him? If his neighbor isn't smart enough to get a job with decent benefits, why should I be forced to pay for his health insurance?


Apart from the serious morale implications of you're declaration that we should abandon the weak and poor, because you can't be bothered to look after them (They're other human being, for god's sake! Show some compassion!), but it will cause problems for the US politically.

There's a difference in abandoning them and letting them help themselves. Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish? For one thing, not everybody who's poor -- in fact, the very small minority of the poor -- is "weak", or disabled to the point that they cannot work. And if they were, there would be plenty of government programs for them anyway. We could go through a system of confiscating money from the working class of citizens to redistribute to the non-working ("poor"), or we could say "hey, if you want to eat, we'll help you get a job". One way, we're not helping them, we're only taking money away from everybody else. The other way, we help them help themselves, and every aspect of the economy benefits.


Part of the reason Rome collapsed was plauge... and plauge (spanish flu) helped destroy the Second Reich in 1918. In a nation like the US, were the rich live off the toil of the poor, the health of the poor has a huge effect. And when it collapses it'll be the fault of you nationalists and your precious Republican party.

Actually, no, the rich live off the toil of themselves. That's the beauty of Capitalism -- if you want to get rich, and you work hard/long/smart enough, you CAN get rich. There is no excuse of staying poor in America. I don't know how many times I've explained this.

And somehow I highly doubt that some epidemic is going to wipe out half our population. Good story, though.


Oh, and one last thing. Sarcastically calling someone 'genius'? Not vey original, or witty. Try harder, genius.

It's a generic line, and it's better than saying "you're a dumbass". Much less true, but at least it sounds better.

OK, after that huge fountain of hate, I really don't know where to start...
Britain and France faded as major powers, yes, but America won't- it'll crash and burn, like some sort of 6,000 mile wide Howard Hughes.
Yes, fraud occured under Clinton, but he was a capitalist tool. Just because he was a democrat does not make him a socialist idol. And other examples include 'Dead Peasants Insurance', a delightful scheme concuted by several major US corporations. Look it up. Not to mention the huge amounts of tax evasion. Not all of these were 'illegal', but the corrupt American legal system is not exactly a shining beacon of justice. Ask Mumia.
The US media are zealous supporters of Bush's capitalist regime. I get my info from independant journalists, not from the propaganda factories of right-wing America.

[quoye]I]Protection[/I]. Not welfare. If my neighbor wants to live off welfare instead of getting off his lazy ass and working, why should I be forced to support him? If his neighbor isn't smart enough to get a job with decent benefits, why should I be forced to pay for his health insurance?[/quote]
No, welfare. Nationalists say a lot of stuff about protection, but what's the good of protecting people if you just let them rot. 'Hurray! We save the people from the bad guys! Now they will clean my toilets for 47c and hour!' Social darwinism makes no sense- if someone is brought up with little education, how are they supposed to compete with someone who went to an ivy leauge school? Especially since all the jobs have been taken to Mexico, where there's a whole load of people who the corporations can exploit even more.

And capitalism doesn't work. It makes no sense at all. The rich haven't worked for their cash. They inherited it. Americans deny it, but there is an incredibly rigid class system in the country, and the rich bourgeoise won't let anyone grab a penny of there hard inherited-cash.
You'd have to be a fool to say that a poor, badly-educated black guy from the ghettoe has half the chance that some upper-class, rich maggot has. Capitalism is greed as a political and economic system. And greed never has any benefits to anyone but the one's making the profit.


It's a generic line, and it's better than saying "you're a dumbass". Much less true, but at least it sounds better.
It may be a little better, but it's still a dumb thing to say. And you just called me a dumbass. That's against the ToS, you know.



Ghandi's rolling in his grave right now in regards to thoughts like "Britian just let India go without a fuss or a fight."

OK, you're right, but I meant there was never a major war. I never said Britain gave up it's empire willingly.

[Raistlin]

How did EotW stupidity make its way into GC?


It'll probably collapse eventually. It's rotting from the inside. Hollywood may give us this lovely, clean image of America, but inreality it's quite different- deteriorating schools, 1/3 population without healthcare, record unemployment, corporate fraud at record heights... America is strangling itself, thanks to Furher Bush and the Nazipublicans.
Haha, the US was deteriorating long before Bush was elected. Or even Reagan. And it wasn't solely caused by "nazi republicans," either.


Damn it, not this guy again. We all know you're a militaristic, nationalist right-winger, so your viewpoint is not exactly fair.
And yet you - who blame all the world's problems on Republicans - your view is fair?

I don't hate myself enough to read the rest of this thread.

[Destai]

How did EotW stupidity make its way into GC?

[Traitorfish]

Damn it, not this guy again. We all know you're a militaristic, nationalist right-winger, so your viewpoint is not exactly fair.
And yet you - who blame all the world's problems on Republicans - your view is fair?

I don't hate myself enough to read the rest of this thread.

Yes, because I'm not a nationalist right-wing capitalist who views the poor as 'lazy and stupid', and claims that military spending is more important than healthcare.
And I don't just blame the republicans. They're at the heart of it, sure, but they wouldn't be so successful if it wasn't for all the greedy middle-class people ou there, who somehow think that privatizing healthcare will save them money (the average American pays 250% as much as much as the average person in Britain). Not to mention all the nationalists and fundamentalists...

[Flying Mullet]

How did EotW stupidity make its way into GC?
It's like a cancer that spreads to other parts of the body.

[Rye]

How did EotW stupidity make its way into GC?

[Traitorfish]

How did EotW stupidity make its way into GC?


Good point, but how is politics stupider than pirates and spoons?

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

How did EotW stupidity make its way into GC?
Magic!

[Traitorfish]

How did EotW stupidity make its way into GC?


Quit quoting this!

[Raistlin]

Yes, because I'm not a nationalist right-wing capitalist who views the poor as 'lazy and stupid', and claims that military spending is more important than healthcare.
1. So only "right-wing capitalists" aren't fair, but, say, left-wing anti-freedom nutjobs aren't excluded?


And I don't just blame the republicans. They're at the heart of it, sure, but they wouldn't be so successful if it wasn't for all the greedy middle-class people ou there, who somehow think that privatizing healthcare will save them money (the average American pays 250% as much as much as the average person in Britain).
I don't care if I have to pay more to provide myself with healthcare, I will not accept being forced to pay for somebody else's.

Tomorrow my EoEO ban expires. So I get to look forward to more of this kind of tripe. *overjoyed*

[Rye]

I dislike the "trend" of hating America and its President. It's wearing thin. :yuck: It seems like no one even has a reason anymore, it's just to look cool.

[Sasquatch]

OK, after that huge fountain of hate, I really don't know where to start...
Hate? Who?

Yes, fraud occured under Clinton, but he was a capitalist tool. Just because he was a democrat does not make him a socialist idol.
Clinton, a Capitalist "tool"? You must be kidding. A man who's redistributed more income than anybody in American history, and you're calling him a Capitalist tool?

And other examples include 'Dead Peasants Insurance', a delightful scheme concuted by several major US corporations. Look it up. Not to mention the huge amounts of tax evasion. Not all of these were 'illegal', but the corrupt American legal system is not exactly a shining beacon of justice. Ask Mumia.
Right. And this is all tied to just Republicans. List some examples of Bush's "corporate fraud".

The US media are zealous supporters of Bush's capitalist regime. I get my info from independant journalists, not from the propaganda factories of right-wing America.
Supporters of Bush? What a crock. Do you have any source that say the US media has a right-wing bias? And don't try the "everybody knows it" or "it's obvious" line, because it just isn't true. Try to find some sources that say the mainstream media in America are "zealous supporters" of Bush. Go ahead.

No, welfare. Nationalists say a lot of stuff about protection, but what's the good of protecting people if you just let them rot. 'Hurray! We save the people from the bad guys! Now they will clean my toilets for 47c and hour!' Social darwinism makes no sense- if someone is brought up with little education, how are they supposed to compete with someone who went to an ivy leauge school?
How? They try. You don't have to have a higher education to be a better employee. Like I said, there's no excuse for being poor in America.

Especially since all the jobs have been taken to Mexico, where there's a whole load of people who the corporations can exploit even more.
If the Democrats hadn't passed enormous bills taxing nearly half their income, they would have stayed in America. And American corporations are the best thing that's ever happened to thousands of Mexican workers (or wherever they might have moved to).

And capitalism doesn't work. It makes no sense at all. The rich haven't worked for their cash. They inherited it.
Believe it or not, but many people have actually earned their money. Thousands of companies have been built from nothing. Millions of people have worked their asses off to get the education/training/experience required for certain well-paying jobs. Only a few of the "rich" have only inherited their money from their parents -- but even so, how did their parents get rich? There's got to be a point somewhere where somebody made more money and left it to his children.

Americans deny it, but there is an incredibly rigid class system in the country, and the rich bourgeoise won't let anyone grab a penny of there hard inherited-cash.
Right. Those eeeeevil Rich just stuff all of their money into big mattresses, and nobody ever sees it again, right? How about no? The rich, naturally, want to stay rich, so they invest their money. Could be in something small, or it could be something that will get them a hellovalot more money. Like developing a company. Something like, for example, building another assembly plant, or another store. Something that will provide more jobs, and better the economy on all levels.

You'd have to be a fool to say that a poor, badly-educated black guy from the ghettoe has half the chance that some upper-class, rich maggot has.
Well according to people like you, those "upper-class rich maggots" don't work anyway, so what chances do they need? A black guy probably has more chances, especially for education, than most everybody else, but I won't get into that because there are people here whose ignorance just won't let them see that. And from everything I've seen -- which is quite a bit, if I may say so -- yes, most people's chances are pretty equal, depending on their attitudes. Most employers would much rather hire a poor black guy from the getto than some rich snob, IF the poor black guy will work as hard or harder. There are more "qualifications" than just education.

Capitalism is greed as a political and economic system. And greed never has any benefits to anyone but the one's making the profit.
Actually, you're only partially wrong on this one. It has benefitted everyone who WANTS to make profit. As I said, if you want to get rich in America, and you're willing to work hard/long/smart enough, you will. (Unless, of course, you bring in slaves, then they're not benefitted much by it, but it wouldn't be any worse than any other system that used slaves.)

It may be a little better, but it's still a dumb thing to say. And you just called me a dumbass. That's against the ToS, you know.
Actually, no, I didn't call you a dumbass. I just said you weren't a genius. Try again.

EDIT:
Tomorrow my EoEO ban expires. So I get to look forward to more of this kind of tripe. *overjoyed*
Too bad I was perma-banned, I enjoy this stuff too.

[Traitorfish]

Yes, because I'm not a nationalist right-wing capitalist who views the poor as 'lazy and stupid', and claims that military spending is more important than healthcare.
1. So only "right-wing capitalists" aren't fair, but, say, left-wing anti-freedom nutjobs aren't excluded?


And I don't just blame the republicans. They're at the heart of it, sure, but they wouldn't be so successful if it wasn't for all the greedy middle-class people ou there, who somehow think that privatizing healthcare will save them money (the average American pays 250% as much as much as the average person in Britain).
I don't care if I have to pay more to provide myself with healthcare, I will not accept being forced to pay for somebody else's.

Tomorrow my EoEO ban expires. So I get to look forward to more of this kind of tripe. *overjoyed*

Left-wing anti freedom nut jobs? Who the hell are you, MacArthur? What I meant was that I have an ounce of compassion in my body, unlike you and Sasquatch. And you are particularly amazing. You don't mind paying more money, if it means you help no-one else? That's just spiteful. And incorrect- the money goes to 'national insurance', essentially, a giant insurance plan that covers all of Britain, and anyone who needs the money, gets it. That means you're allowed to be healthy if you're poor and disabled, as opposed to the US, were being poor and disabled is almost a crime.
And you have to be insane to say that Bush represents freedom. An anti-choice, anti-freedom of speech, anti-anything not apporved by Mein Kampf fascist like him? He feels the same way about freedom as Godzilla feels about architecture.

[Raistlin]

Capitalism is greed as a political and economic system. And greed never has any benefits to anyone but the one's making the profit.
Absolutely. But then you have to ask yourself - in a free, capitalist society (where the government is completely out of the economic sphere), why are the ones making profits...making profits? It can't be because they "buy politicians," because in such a society, the politicians couldn't help businessmen.
The reason people make profits, in an economically free society, is because they've earned it.

EDIT:


Left-wing anti freedom nut jobs? Who the hell are you, MacArthur? What I meant was that I have an ounce of compassion in my body, unlike you and Sasquatch.
So you're criminalizing self-interest?


And you are particularly amazing. You don't mind paying more money, if it means you help no-one else?
No, don't put words in my mouth. I said I don't mind paying money, as long as I'm not forced to help someone else. I don't fork over the cash at the point of a gun.


the money goes to 'national insurance', essentially, a giant insurance plan that covers all of Britain, and anyone who needs the money, gets it. That means you're allowed to be healthy if you're poor and disabled, as opposed to the US, where being poor or disabled means you're not entitled to other peoples' money
Fixed.


And you have to be insane to say that Bush represents freedom.
Did I ever say Bush represents freedom? Bush is about as anti-freedom as Kerry.

[udsuna]

yankee doodle went to town
riding on a poney
he stucka feather in his cap
and called it macaroni

:D

*Deliberately ignores the last dozen or so comments*

You brits made that one up, you know.

[Traitorfish]

OK, after that huge fountain of hate, I really don't know where to start...
Hate? Who?
You, hating the left, and any other form of common sense.




Yes, fraud occured under Clinton, but he was a capitalist tool. Just because he was a democrat does not make him a socialist idol.
Clinton, a Capitalist "tool"? You must be kidding. A man who's redistributed more income than anybody in American history, and you're calling him a Capitalist tool?

Well, I come from Britain. We're the country that produced Kier Hardie. We have a slightly different view of 'redistribution of income'. We think it should actually take place. CLinton only seems left wing because he was between two Bush administrations.




And other examples include 'Dead Peasants Insurance', a delightful scheme concuted by several major US corporations. Look it up. Not to mention the huge amounts of tax evasion. Not all of these were 'illegal', but the corrupt American legal system is not exactly a shining beacon of justice. Ask Mumia.
Right. And this is all tied to just Republicans. List some examples of Bush's "corporate fraud".
BUsh didn't commit the fraud. The corporations did. Hence the term 'corporate fraud' rather than 'presedntial fraud'. And, apart from 'Dead Peasants' (evidently you don't know what that is), there are huge amounts of tax evasion. I'm not going to name individual cases, because I don't go around memorizing all of them. But I think I have slightly different ideas of corporate crime than you.



The US media are zealous supporters of Bush's capitalist regime. I get my info from independant journalists, not from the propaganda factories of right-wing America.
Supporters of Bush? What a crock. Do you have any source that say the US media has a right-wing bias? And don't try the "everybody knows it" or "it's obvious" line, because it just isn't true. Try to find some sources that say the mainstream media in America are "zealous supporters" of Bush. Go ahead.
Michael Moore. George Galloway. The Scottish Socialist Party. The Liberal Democrat party. The fact that the US media refuses to tell the truth on the War in Iraq, Bush's election, Bush's connection with the Taliban, the Saudis or al Queda.



No, welfare. Nationalists say a lot of stuff about protection, but what's the good of protecting people if you just let them rot. 'Hurray! We save the people from the bad guys! Now they will clean my toilets for 47c and hour!' Social darwinism makes no sense- if someone is brought up with little education, how are they supposed to compete with someone who went to an ivy leauge school?
How? They try. You don't have to have a higher education to be a better employee. Like I said, there's no excuse for being poor in America.
BS. America is a cess-pit of inequality. The 'American Dream' isn't real. The poor stay poor, unless they work together to change things. Leaving your friends and family in the dirt while you strive for money and power isn't going to change anything.




Especially since all the jobs have been taken to Mexico, where there's a whole load of people who the corporations can exploit even more.
If the Democrats hadn't passed enormous bills taxing nearly half their income, they would have stayed in America. And American corporations are the best thing that's ever happened to thousands of Mexican workers (or wherever they might have moved to).
Oh that's OK! The corporations were greedy, that's why they left! Of course... Except most of the major companies began moving jobs in the 80s, under Raegan. Not under Clinton. Get your facts right.



And capitalism doesn't work. It makes no sense at all. The rich haven't worked for their cash. They inherited it.
Believe it or not, but many people have actually earned their money. Thousands of companies have been built from nothing. Millions of people have worked their asses off to get the education/training/experience required for certain well-paying jobs. Only a few of the "rich" have only inherited their money from their parents -- but even so, how did their parents get rich? There's got to be a point somewhere where somebody made more money and left it to his children.
That was just a stream of nonsense, showing complete ignoranc eof reality. Look at Bush- his family have been wealthy for centuries! Very few of the rich started off less than upper-middle class. The idea of the poor man working hard to become rich is a lie. It also makes no sese. If millions of Americans work hard their entire lives, why are only a handful rich?




Americans deny it, but there is an incredibly rigid class system in the country, and the rich bourgeoise won't let anyone grab a penny of there hard inherited-cash.
Right. Those eeeeevil Rich just stuff all of their money into big mattresses, and nobody ever sees it again, right? How about no? The rich, naturally, want to stay rich, so they invest their money. Could be in something small, or it could be something that will get them a hellovalot more money. Like developing a company. Something like, for example, building another assembly plant, or another store. Something that will provide more jobs, and better the economy on all levels.

The 'trickle down' theory of economics is a proven failure. Just look around you. Anyway, do we need another company? How about some health insurance for the poor? May that will provide a little more benefit to societey, hmm?




You'd have to be a fool to say that a poor, badly-educated black guy from the ghettoe has half the chance that some upper-class, rich maggot has.
Well according to people like you, those "upper-class rich maggots" don't work anyway, so what chances do they need? A black guy probably has more chances, especially for education, than most everybody else, but I won't get into that because there are people here whose ignorance just won't let them see that. And from everything I've seen -- which is quite a bit, if I may say so -- yes, most people's chances are pretty equal, depending on their attitudes. Most employers would much rather hire a poor black guy from the getto than some rich snob, IF the poor black guy will work as hard or harder. There are more "qualifications" than just education.

A black guy has more chances for education? You're either racist or ignorant. You also forget the huge amount of rascsim in America. It exists at all levels, particularly the top.




Capitalism is greed as a political and economic system. And greed never has any benefits to anyone but the one's making the profit.
Actually, you're only partially wrong on this one. It has benefitted everyone who WANTS to make profit. As I said, if you want to get rich in America, and you're willing to work hard/long/smart enough, you will. (Unless, of course, you bring in slaves, then they're not benefitted much by it, but it wouldn't be any worse than any other system that used slaves.)
That sounded a little like an endorsement of slavery... And besides, at the wages many poor Americans recieve, they are virtually slaves.



It may be a little better, but it's still a dumb thing to say. And you just called me a dumbass. That's against the ToS, you know.
Actually, no, I didn't call you a dumbass. I just said you weren't a genius. Try again.
Aah, you implied I was a dumbass. I'm smart enough to pick up on things like that, you know.



EDIT:
Tomorrow my EoEO ban expires. So I get to look forward to more of this kind of tripe. *overjoyed*
Too bad I was perma-banned, I enjoy this stuff too.
You mean you've been banned from a whole area of the board? Maybe you should be less aggressive, then.



Capitalism is greed as a political and economic system. And greed never has any benefits to anyone but the one's making the profit.
Absolutely. But then you have to ask yourself - in a free, capitalist society (where the government is completely out of the economic sphere), why are the ones making profits...making profits? It can't be because they "buy politicians," because in such a society, the politicians couldn't help businessmen.
The reason people make profits, in an economically free society, is because they've earned it.
Garbage. History shows that this never works. Otherwise, the world wouldn't be in it's current state.




Left-wing anti freedom nut jobs? Who the hell are you, MacArthur? What I meant was that I have an ounce of compassion in my body, unlike you and Sasquatch.
So you're criminalizing self-interest?
Yes, actually, I am. It is a crime to put your own needs above those of the less fortuanate.




the money goes to 'national insurance', essentially, a giant insurance plan that covers all of Britain, and anyone who needs the money, gets it. That means you're allowed to be healthy if you're poor and disabled, as opposed to the US, where being poor or disabled means you're not entitled to other peoples' money
Fixed.
Real mature. Editing my words, so they look different. How do you expect to prove anything? Anyway, the disabled are given an unfair start in life. No-one's fault, but we should all help them if we can.




And you have to be insane to say that Bush represents freedom.
Did I ever say Bush represents freedom? Bush is about as anti-freedom as Kerry.
Yeah, sure. The USAPATRIOT act was a veritable Bill of Rights. Yep, what better why to show how free you are than by allowing unwarranted searches of homes, or by allowing censorship of anti-government material. or by breaking UN human rights laws about treatment of prisoners! Yep, freedom for all!

<b>Edit by Kishi: Don't double-post.</b>

Edit: I didn't. Did I? I don't remember... Was the other post deleted?

[YukiKiro]

first of all, thank you chris for your, um, kind words. second, i see this problem all the time and it is really starting to give me a headache. it is always a country's government that makes the descisions to go to war, we simply elect those people, but we only have a limited selection, and when each candidate shares the same aggression we're out of luck anyways. i call for a cease flaming towards americans as it is not our fault for the entire mess. in fact have you ever heard of peace protests? there are more and more of them here all the time. we're not all war mongers so show a bit of decency and quit getting mad at us for what our government does out of blind money grubbing rage.

[Traitorfish]

first of all, thank you chris for your, um, kind words. second, i see this problem all the time and it is really starting to give me a headache. it is always a country's government that makes the descisions to go to war, we simply elect those people, but we only have a limited selection, and when each candidate shares the same aggression we're out of luck anyways. i call for a cease flaming towards americans as it is not our fault for the entire mess. in fact have you ever heard of peace protests? there are more and more of them here all the time. we're not all war mongers so show a bit of decency and quit getting mad at us for what our government does out of blind money grubbing rage.

I agree with some of what you said, but I did not flame americans. I critiscised the Bush administration, and capitalism as a whole. That's not flaming, it's excercising my freedom of speech, as guaranteed to me by the UN declaration of human rights, along with the right to education and healthcare. Listening, Sasquatch?

[Jebus]

Oh, great. Another long tirade about the evils of America.

Don't get me wrong, I despise this country and all of it's conservative, militaristic ways, but honestly. Everyone knows by now. Plus it's a little off topic.

Anyway, Yankee != American. Here Yankee means northerner. Also North > South in this country in all ways. Especially accentwise. I think if I hear another damned dixie accent I'm gonna tear my ears off.

[Old Manus]

Oh stuff the civilised world and lets feel sorry for the terrorist bastards who would sooner shoot you than look at you

[Chris]

I would like to say this to all those people (you know who you are) whose called this thread stupid and some other things. I don't hate America, but I do however hate the way America is whoring it's way through the world. Sure, let's pretend that the wrong way is the highway, but surely you'd see the truck coming if you were lying on the road. It hits you in the long run, slowly sucking out the blood of it's victims. Sorry to say this, but only Americans are naive enough to protect a country that declares itself to be: "Land of the Free".

[Psychotic]

Michael Moore. George Galloway. The Scottish Socialist Party. The Liberal Democrat party. You're calling these "independant journalists"? ...that's absolutely insane. I'm not an expert by any means on the SSP, but the likes of Michael Moore and George Galloway are idiotic whiners taking advantage of the anti-war sentiment, and the Lib Dems are no better. Independent my eye. I'm not a fan of Bush and his right-wing media, but these are just as bad.

[Flying Mullet]

Oh, great. Another long tirade about the evils of America.Especially accentwise. I think if I hear another damned dixie accent I'm gonna tear my ears off.
No way. A southern accent is so much better than that of someone from Joysey or Bahston. :p

[Chibi Angel]

Oh stuff the civilised world and lets feel sorry for the terrorist bastards who would sooner shoot you than look at you

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Come on lad let's set our hair on fire

[Traitorfish]

Michael Moore. George Galloway. The Scottish Socialist Party. The Liberal Democrat party. You're calling these "independant journalists"? ...that's absolutely insane. I'm not an expert by any means on the SSP, but the likes of Michael Moore and George Galloway are idiotic whiners taking advantage of the anti-war sentiment, and the Lib Dems are no better. Independent my eye. I'm not a fan of Bush and his right-wing media, but these are just as bad.

How do you figure?
They're not the only people I get info from, I jsut don't bother to list the names of various journalists.. Anyway, your confusing what I said. 'Independant journalists' was where I said I get news from. These guys are who I said my sources were, when I said the American media is right-wing.
And Michael Moore and George Galloway have been saying stuff for years (Moore used to publish a left-wing newspaper in the 80s, and Galloway has been a politician for decades). It's not their fault that the media has only recently acknowledged them. Get your info right.
Anyway, if everyone who speaks ou is a whiner, then your essentially saying freedom of speech is bad. Is that what you really think?

[Raistlin]

Garbage. History shows that this never works. Otherwise, the world wouldn't be in it's current state.
Examples, please.


Yes, actually, I am. It is a crime to put your own needs above those of the less fortuanate.
I was starting to type out a retort for this, but I can't even begin to take this seriously. That kind of thinking is where Soviet Russia came from, and anyone who considers THAT a moral idea deserves the consequences.


Real mature. Editing my words, so they look different.
And I included italics and said "fixed," to make it obvious that I changed it.


Anyway, the disabled are given an unfair start in life. No-one's fault, but we should all help them if we can.
No one's fault, you say, but then you contradict that statement by laying blame on anyone "more fortunate" by stealing from them.


Yeah, sure. The USAPATRIOT act was a veritable Bill of Rights. Yep, what better why to show how free you are than by allowing unwarranted searches of homes, or by allowing censorship of anti-government material. or by breaking UN human rights laws about treatment of prisoners! Yep, freedom for all!
Didn't I just say that Bush was anti-freedom? Are you even paying attention?


This is what I don't get about liberals: they say that the Patriot Act is evil, because it violates the 4th amendment. This I agree with; involuntary search and seizure with little to no corroborating evidence contradicts the rights to individual freedom, <i>even though it could save lives</i>. It's inarguable that we'd all be a lot safer if we could immediately lock up anyone that had the slightest bit of evidence of being a terrorist or a criminal. However, then liberals say it's perfectly okay to rob someone to build a road, or to give it to the poor. So building a road or helping out the poor is worth sacrificing individual rights, but not saving lives? I don't get it.

I would stop replying, because I know I can't do anything, but this is actually entertaining. :)

[DMKA]

Must...not...say...it.

Fail.
THANKS! :love: :love: :love:

It's funny cause now that everyone is getting banned from EoEO/EotW, General Chat is turning into a combination of the two, without the regulations...which I find, quite frankly, awesome. :D

[Traitorfish]

Garbage. History shows that this never works. Otherwise, the world wouldn't be in it's current state.
Examples, please.
Oh, erm, lets see... The huge amounts of poverty acroos the world? The AIDS epidemic in Africa? over 60 million Americans without healthcare? The fact that oil-wars claim the lives of hundreds every month? Corporate-backed fascist dictators?
If you're unaware of this stuff, you need to open you eyes. As my sig' explains.




Yes, actually, I am. It is a crime to put your own needs above those of the less fortuanate.
I was starting to type out a retort for this, but I can't even begin to take this seriously. That kind of thinking is where Soviet Russia came from, and anyone who considers THAT a moral idea deserves the consequences.
Actually, that is indeed the sort of thinking Soviet Russia came from, and is the kind of thinking I agree with. But that kind of thinking ended in 1924, when Stalin drove out the Leninists like Trotsky. Then Russia became a totalitarian dictatorship, communist in name only. (If you don't understand, read 1984 by George Orwell).
And, before you go on an anti-marxist rant, consider this: the literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the US. The infant mortality rate in Havanah is lower than in Washington D.C. That shows something, doe it not? Castro has proportionatly more literate people in his nation than Bush, King of America, Emperor of the Free World. And that's comparing the USA to Cuba, a small island nation. Compare the US to one of the Scandinavian countires, then you'll see that capitalism doesn't work.




Real mature. Editing my words, so they look different.
And I included italics and said "fixed," to make it obvious that I changed it.
Yes, I know. it was still a waste of time.




Anyway, the disabled are given an unfair start in life. No-one's fault, but we should all help them if we can.
No one's fault, you say, but then you contradict that statement by laying blame on anyone "more fortunate" by stealing from them.
It's not theft. It's supporting your fellow human beings. Neandethals did it. So you can too. Anything is just wrong.


However, then liberals say it's perfectly okay to rob someone to build a road, or to give it to the poor.
Building roads is theft? So, what, everyone has to build their own roads? Or fly helicopters? How does that make sense?
And the amount of money that is 'stolen' from you to give to the poor is an insignificant fraction of how much is stolen from the poor, to finance the rich.
It seems you're not a standard conservative, but your not liberal either. You're a capitalist. Someone who puts themself before eveyone and everything else, giving up ideals, morales and ethics, in pursuit of wealth and power. Bravo.

[lordblazer]

Yes, because I'm not a nationalist right-wing capitalist who views the poor as 'lazy and stupid', and claims that military spending is more important than healthcare.
1. So only "right-wing capitalists" aren't fair, but, say, left-wing anti-freedom nutjobs aren't excluded?


And I don't just blame the republicans. They're at the heart of it, sure, but they wouldn't be so successful if it wasn't for all the greedy middle-class people ou there, who somehow think that privatizing healthcare will save them money (the average American pays 250% as much as much as the average person in Britain).
I don't care if I have to pay more to provide myself with healthcare, I will not accept being forced to pay for somebody else's.

Tomorrow my EoEO ban expires. So I get to look forward to more of this kind of tripe. *overjoyed*

lol since when was the left wing anti freedom?lol Rais but sorry your a joke.

[Shoeberto]

Whenever a heated debate such as this pops up, I generally find it soothing to listen to some <a href="http://www.expectnomore.net/radio/bennyhil.mid">music.</a> :monster:

[Traitorfish]

Whenever a heated debate such as this pops up, I generally find it soothing to listen to some <a href="http://www.expectnomore.net/radio/bennyhil.mid">music.</a> :monster:

Since my collection consists largely of stuff like Rage Against the Machine and System of a Down, it doesn't help.

[Shoeberto]

It sure is entertaining to listen to while reading this stuff, though.

[lordblazer]

It'll probably collapse eventually. It's rotting from the inside. Hollywood may give us this lovely, clean image of America, but inreality it's quite different- deteriorating schools, 1/3 population without healthcare, record unemployment, corporate fraud at record heights... America is strangling itself, thanks to Furher Bush and the Nazipublicans. The next big power'll be Japan or China. Japan may not be big militarily, but it's incredibly wealthy. The US prefers funding other armies to using their own, and Japan could easily do the same. Only Japan would probably be less evil. Of course, Attila the Hun was slightly less evil than Bush...

Actually, genius. No. There is no record unemployment, so you need to do some research there. The population without healthcare doesn't matter, because it's not the government's responsibility to take care of every aspect of every private citizen. Corporate fraud has taken place for decades, it's only the media that has tried to tie Enron to Bush that those that don't know much about politics that think corporate fraud is such a new thing. Schools haven't been much good for a while, and it's because they're run by the government. But of course, you find a way to blame everything on the Republicans.

As was mentioned before, America'll probably lose power, but never collapse. We'll end up one of the stronger countries in the world, but no longer the one superpower. The same way crazybayman said.

And I can't stand yankee accents. But I live in Wisconsin, so there's really no way to avoid them.


Damn it, not this guy again. We all know you're a militaristic, nationalist right-winger, so your viewpoint is not exactly fair. And the reason people blame the nazipublicans, is because all the major problems in the world can be traced to them. And the US won't go down the way of Britain and France, because it's not like that. Britain and France relinquished their empires. But the American Reich isn't like that. It'll fight to the miserable, bloody death rather than give up.
In fact, it'll end like the Roman empire- centuries of corruption rotting it's insides. And then, some series of external events will destroy what remaining stability the US has, and the whole thing will collapse.
Corporate fraud has been going on for years, yes, but under Bush's corporate regime, it's reached a peak. The Enron cse isn't the only example. And don't say that anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing about politics. After all, I'm sure Kier Hardie would have disagreed with you, and anyone who says he knows nothing about politics is obviously completely cluesless.
And the welfare of it's citizens is the governments prime concern. Apart from the serious morale implications of you're declaration that we should abandon the weak and poor, because you can't be bothered to look after them (They're other human being, for god's sake! Show some compassion!), but it will cause problems for the US politically. Part of the reason Rome collapsed was plauge... and plauge (spanish flu) helped destroy the Second Reich in 1918. In a nation like the US, were the rich live off the toil of the poor, the health of the poor has a huge effect. And when it collapses it'll be the fault of you nationalists and your precious Republican party.

Oh, and one last thing. Sarcastically calling someone 'genius'? Not vey original, or witty. Try harder, genius.

Who is this guy?

We didn't reliquish our empire it fell apart due to a lack of economic and military strength. Genuis.
WOOOT trash talking Sas lol thats the funnest thing to do.

[Chaos]

Pffft I'm with the British Empire resurgance crowd on this one.
Now we all KNOW the British are the best people in the world...we just need to own over a 1/4 of the world again so we can back it up.

Go team UK!

Chaos

[lordblazer]

Pffft I'm with the British Empire resurgance crowd on this one.
Now we all KNOW the British are the best people in the world...we just need to own over a 1/4 of the world again so we can back it up.

Go team UK!

Chaos
SCrew the brits..


Canada shall be the next imperial power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[Sasquatch]

You, hating the left, and any other form of common sense.

I don't hate the left. I strongly dislike stupidity, arrogance, and dishonesty. If you incorporate that with the left...well, there you go.


Well, I come from Britain. We're the country that produced Kier Hardie. We have a slightly different view of 'redistribution of income'. We think it should actually take place. CLinton only seems left wing because he was between two Bush administrations.

Last I recall, Britain isn't a Socialist country, although it's working on it, just like the U.S. is. Clinton didn't "seem" left wing, he WAS left wing, it doesn't matter where who he was between.


BUsh didn't commit the fraud. The corporations did. Hence the term 'corporate fraud' rather than 'presedntial fraud'. And, apart from 'Dead Peasants' (evidently you don't know what that is), there are huge amounts of tax evasion. I'm not going to name individual cases, because I don't go around memorizing all of them. But I think I have slightly different ideas of corporate crime than you.

But according to you, the fraud was tied to Bush. And at record levels under Bush. So where's the evidence?


Michael Moore. George Galloway. The Scottish Socialist Party. The Liberal Democrat party. The fact that the US media refuses to tell the truth on the War in Iraq, Bush's election, Bush's connection with the Taliban, the Saudis or al Queda.

Alright, just because they're not as blatantly extreme left as you doesn't mean they're right-wing. And do you know why the media refuses to report things like that? Because there's NOTHING TO REPORT. Nothing's been proven (because it ain't true), and until anything IS proven, nobody will report it because, like CBS, they'll get even more of a reputation for making up bogus stories. CBS already tried making up a story to make Bush look bad, and it bit 'em in the ass. Michael Moore and George Galloway are not credible sources, by the way. How about a link? A report? Anything?


BS. America is a cess-pit of inequality. The 'American Dream' isn't real. The poor stay poor, unless they work together to change things. Leaving your friends and family in the dirt while you strive for money and power isn't going to change anything.

Actually, no. You show your ignorance of America quite clearly. the poor stay poor, unless they work harder, longer, or smarter, or invest, or whatever, then they make more money. Anybody and everybody in America can do just as much.


Oh that's OK! The corporations were greedy, that's why they left! Of course... Except most of the major companies began moving jobs in the 80s, under Raegan. Not under Clinton. Get your facts right.

Oh, those eeeevil greedy people, wanting to keep some of the money they work for! What bastards! What mean, mean people! How dare they work for themselves, instead of living in poverty and donating all of their profits!


That was just a stream of nonsense, showing complete ignoranc eof reality. Look at Bush- his family have been wealthy for centuries! Very few of the rich started off less than upper-middle class. The idea of the poor man working hard to become rich is a lie. It also makes no sese. If millions of Americans work hard their entire lives, why are only a handful rich?

That would depend on your definition of "rich", actually. The way the Democrats here talk about taxing the rich, they mean taking money from about a third of the population. The way it's reported, it's made to sound like it's only people like Bill Gates and a dozen of his friends that have to pay any extra. And I said it takes hard work to get rich -- if it was easy, plenty of people would be rich. Most Americans don't work to get rich, they work to survive.

My father is a good example. He's by no means "rich", but he's pretty stable, I'd say. He came out of a broken marriage with a high school education, and decided he'd do whatever he could to raise his three children right. So he worked, and he worked his ass off. Eventually, he put himself through truck-driving school and got a CDL, so he could make a little more money. He often sacrificed time with his wife and children, because if he came home for dinner that day, there wouldn't be enough money for dinner the next week, get my drift? He'd be on the road for weeks at a time, and come home maybe twice a month. But he worked his way around, and worked his way up, and worked every way you could imagine, eventually getting a job in a trucking company as a safety instructor for recruited drivers. After barely three years with that company, they decided to give him a huge promotion and move him up to their corporate headquarters, 1100 miles away. That was a little more'n four years ago...at this point, he's one of the #3 men in the company. As in, he reports to one of the guys that reports directly to the owner of the company. He's in the third tier of management. He's the only one anywhere near that level that got there WITHOUT even an Associate's Degree from college. So don't try to tell me that somebody without an Ivy-League degree can't make it as far as somebody who struggles to put food on the table.


The 'trickle down' theory of economics is a proven failure. Just look around you. Anyway, do we need another company? How about some health insurance for the poor? May that will provide a little more benefit to societey, hmm?

Actually, Reaganomics works quite well, as has been proven. Why has there ALWAYS been an economy boost immediately following a tax cut? Because people get to keep more of their money, which means they spend more money, which means the government gets more in taxes.

And do they need another company? Do they need the revenue from it? Nah, not really, they're probably well enough without it. How about some health insurance for the poor? Sure, some people -- in fact, most everybody with enough money -- like to give money to charity, help out others. Good for them. I've even given money to charity, at my own expense, and it sure as hell ain't like I'm rolling in the dough. I just strongly disagree with the idea that we should be forced into doing it. You want to give to charity, fine, give as much as you want, but if I don't want to, I shouldn't have to. It's not my responsibility to make sure my entire neighborhood has health care -- because if it was, half of my neighborhood would say "screw it, somebody else will pay for it", and not worry about getting it themselves. We already see that happening. So what should we do, let people keep some of the money they make an invest it, thus creating more revenue and more jobs, or steal more of the money people make to redistribute it to those who, for whatever reason, don't make as much?


A black guy has more chances for education? You're either racist or ignorant. You also forget the huge amount of rascsim in America. It exists at all levels, particularly the top.

You have no idea how the college selection system works in America. And you are completely ignorant of the racism in America, and who it's directed towards. A black person not only has more chances of getting into colleges they apply to, but more chances of having more of their college education paid for. I am nowhere near racist, I just tell it like it is.


That sounded a little like an endorsement of slavery... And besides, at the wages many poor Americans recieve, they are virtually slaves.

Like an endorsement of slavery? How in the hell did you get that? I simply pointed out that slaves, obviously, in whatever society/government type they're in, probably don't need to worry about getting rich.


Aah, you implied I was a dumbass. I'm smart enough to pick up on things like that, you know.

Good for you. You implied that I was a fool, and I'm racist. Who gives a damn if you think I might have said you might be whatever? What, am I hurting your feelings? Too bad, you don't have a right not to be offended, no matter what the ACLU tells you.


You mean you've been banned from a whole area of the board? Maybe you should be less aggressive, then.

I was banned because I couldn't put up with the rampant ignorance, and not just that but the arrogance that accompanied it, that usually showed itself in political debates such as this. But hey, some things just can't be escaped.

By the way. In a Capitalist economy, there's absolutely nothing wrong with working to make money. That's the entire point of it. That's different from a Socialist economy, where you're expected to have motivation to work, even though working harder/longer/smarter won't do you any good.

And there's a slight difference between the poor and the disabled. Yes, we should help the disabled out any way we can. They can't help it, they need help. But as I said, very few poor people are poor because they CAN'T work.

[DMKA]

Whenever a heated debate such as this pops up, I generally find it soothing to listen to some <a href="http://www.expectnomore.net/radio/bennyhil.mid">music.</a> :monster:
You sir have won my internet.

[Chris]

Pfft, a cheap midi. :mad:

[Sasquatch]

It's funny cause now that everyone is getting banned from EoEO/EotW, General Chat is turning into a combination of the two, without the regulations...which I find, quite frankly, awesome. :D

Just noticed this. Amen :D .

[Kirobaito]

What I kind of find funny is that the people criticizing the way American works, at least in this thread, don't live in America.

I would debate, but I suck at debate.

[Samuraid]

It'll probably collapse eventually. It's rotting from the inside. Hollywood may give us this lovely, clean image of America, but inreality it's quite different- deteriorating schools, 1/3 population without healthcare, record unemployment, corporate fraud at record heights... America is strangling itself, thanks to Furher Bush and the Nazipublicans. The next big power'll be Japan or China. Japan may not be big militarily, but it's incredibly wealthy. The US prefers funding other armies to using their own, and Japan could easily do the same. Only Japan would probably be less evil. Of course, Attila the Hun was slightly less evil than Bush...

Actually, genius. No. There is no record unemployment, so you need to do some research there. The population without healthcare doesn't matter, because it's not the government's responsibility to take care of every aspect of every private citizen. Corporate fraud has taken place for decades, it's only the media that has tried to tie Enron to Bush that those that don't know much about politics that think corporate fraud is such a new thing. Schools haven't been much good for a while, and it's because they're run by the government. But of course, you find a way to blame everything on the Republicans.

As was mentioned before, America'll probably lose power, but never collapse. We'll end up one of the stronger countries in the world, but no longer the one superpower. The same way crazybayman said.

And I can't stand yankee accents. But I live in Wisconsin, so there's really no way to avoid them.


Damn it, not this guy again. We all know you're a militaristic, nationalist right-winger, so your viewpoint is not exactly fair. And the reason people blame the nazipublicans, is because all the major problems in the world can be traced to them. And the US won't go down the way of Britain and France, because it's not like that. Britain and France relinquished their empires. But the American Reich isn't like that. It'll fight to the miserable, bloody death rather than give up.
In fact, it'll end like the Roman empire- centuries of corruption rotting it's insides. And then, some series of external events will destroy what remaining stability the US has, and the whole thing will collapse.
Corporate fraud has been going on for years, yes, but under Bush's corporate regime, it's reached a peak. The Enron cse isn't the only example. And don't say that anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing about politics. After all, I'm sure Kier Hardie would have disagreed with you, and anyone who says he knows nothing about politics is obviously completely cluesless.
And the welfare of it's citizens is the governments prime concern. Apart from the serious morale implications of you're declaration that we should abandon the weak and poor, because you can't be bothered to look after them (They're other human being, for god's sake! Show some compassion!), but it will cause problems for the US politically. Part of the reason Rome collapsed was plauge... and plauge (spanish flu) helped destroy the Second Reich in 1918. In a nation like the US, were the rich live off the toil of the poor, the health of the poor has a huge effect. And when it collapses it'll be the fault of you nationalists and your precious Republican party.

Oh, and one last thing. Sarcastically calling someone 'genius'? Not vey original, or witty. Try harder, genius.


Save it for EoW.

[Jebus]

I'd debate about it, but I suck at debating, and I hate it when people basically call me an idiot for what I think and such. Although I am of the mind that nothing America has done in the last 50 years or so has been that good.

We need another Roosevelt.

[Kirobaito]

I'd debate about it, but I suck at debating, and I hate it when people basically call me an idiot for what I think and such. Although I am of the mind that nothing America has done in the last 50 years or so has been that good.

We need another Roosevelt.
To have another Roosevelt, we would need another collapse of the economy.

[Samuraid]

I hate it when people basically call me an idiot for what I think and such.

Every side is guilty of that unfortunately. :(

[DMKA]

Pfft, a cheap midi. :mad:
Have an MP3 then. (http://www.angelfire.com/anime6/dmka/TV_Themes_-_Benny_Hill_1.mp3)

[Jebus]

To have another Roosevelt, we would need another collapse of the economy.

Well, I don't like how our current economy is looking. So hopefully that can be something to look forward to, right?

Bad economy -> next Roosevelt.

Of course it could also be:

Bad economy -> another Harding -> economic collapse

[Madame Adequate]

The only good thing to come out of this thread is what Hsu posted.

Traitorfish has induced palpable and tangible terror in me.

[Sasquatch]

Now it's slowed down...bo-ring...

[DarknessFromAbove]

lol, this is sooo funny. I totaly hate the US too, but I live here, and was born here too ^_^ (please don't hurt me O_o)

[Madame Adequate]

lol, this is sooo funny. I totaly hate the US too, but I live here, and was born here too ^_^ (please don't hurt me O_o)

And why praytell, do you hate it?

[Shoeberto]

Wasn't Damn Yankee the name of a band? With Gee Wiz (the Nuge) in it?

[Rye]

Wasn't Damn Yankee the name of a band? With Gee Wiz (the Nuge) in it?

Damn Yankees is a unpopular play!

[DMKA]

Wasn't Damn Yankee the name of a band? With Gee Wiz (the Nuge) in it?
It was a musical that was adapted into a film (like "Grease").

[Raistlin]

Oh, erm, lets see... The huge amounts of poverty acroos the world? The AIDS epidemic in Africa?
Wait...capitalism causes AIDS, now? We have a new Cloud No.9 on our hands, here.


over 60 million Americans without healthcare? The fact that oil-wars claim the lives of hundreds every month? Corporate-backed fascist dictators?
60 million Americans are without healthcare because 60 million Americans cannot afford healthcare. There is nothing in the Constitution about a "right to free healthcare at others' expense." Also, I would argue that they cannot afford it primarily because various socialist government policies have made it harder and harder over the years to get out of your economic class - a free market allows for everyone who wants and deserves to be successful, to be successful.



Actually, that is indeed the sort of thinking Soviet Russia came from, and is the kind of thinking I agree with. But that kind of thinking ended in 1924, when Stalin drove out the Leninists like Trotsky. Then Russia became a totalitarian dictatorship, communist in name only.
All socialist ideas eventually lead to dictatorship, because irrationality and anti-freedom can only be enforced by gun-point. Stalin was the logical consequence of communist ideology.



And, before you go on an anti-marxist rant, consider this: the literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the US. The infant mortality rate in Havanah is lower than in Washington D.C. That shows something, doe it not? Castro has proportionatly more literate people in his nation than Bush, King of America, Emperor of the Free World. And that's comparing the USA to Cuba, a small island nation. Compare the US to one of the Scandinavian countires, then you'll see that capitalism doesn't work.
The US isn't a completely free country, either. But all of these evils (higher mortality rates, growing ranges between rich and poor classes) have all come after the institution of the welfare state. Hint?


Yes, I know. it was still a waste of time.
I have the distinct feeling all the logic in the world is a waste of time here, but it's still amusing.


It's not theft. It's supporting your fellow human beings. Neandethals did it. So you can too.
Neanderthals did it voluntarily, and I would be glad to support whatever other human beings I choose to support. But when the government takes away my money involuntarily - by threat of force - in order to give it to someone who has not earned it, that is theft.


And the amount of money that is 'stolen' from you to give to the poor is an insignificant fraction of how much is stolen from the poor, to finance the rich.
How is money stolen from the poor?


It seems you're not a standard conservative, but your not liberal either. You're a capitalist. Someone who puts themself before eveyone and everything else, giving up ideals, morales and ethics, in pursuit of wealth and power.
No, I am not a liberal or conservative. Yes, I could be considered a capitalist. Yes, I do put myself before everyone else, though not in the sense you mean, and only because I <i>haven't</i> given up ideals, morals, and ethics, and instead embrace them. And no, I have no desire for wealth, and consider power to be insignificant.

This is where liberal arguments fall short. They claim that, as a capitalist, I define value of human life by money, and put own wealth above everything - that greed is my prime motive. But I don't strive for wealth. My only motive is what I desire, which automatically nullifies any sort of second-hand self-respect, such as power, fame, prestige, etc. And the only political/economic system where I am free to do as I want - as long as I don't interfere with another's freedom - is pure capitalism.

EDIT: Oh, and I also love how liberals hate on Coolidge and Harding, even though the economic collapse after them was only made possible by <i>government intervention</i> in the economy, which isn't possible in a truly capitalist society. :)

[DMKA]

Yes, I do put myself before everyone else, though not in the sense you mean, and only because I <i>haven't</i> given up ideals, morals, and ethics, and instead embrace them.
But who's to say what those are?

[Shlup]

Oh man, I have no idea what's going on right now.

[DMKA]

Oh man, I have no idea what's going on right now.
I envy you.

[Raistlin]

We're discussing economics/capitalism, Shluppers. So you can just say "I agree with Raist, even though he's still stupid" like you usually do, and let it go at that. :p

[Kirobaito]

We're discussing economics/capitalism, Shluppers. So you can just say "I agree with Raist, even though he's still stupid" like you usually do, and let it go at that. :p
Or she can say it because you are actually correct. :p

[Raistlin]

Well, of course I am, but I thought that was obvious. :D

[Shlup]

Capitalist pig.

[Raistlin]

:love:

[fire_of_avalon]

Hey.

Threads like these belong in Eyes on the World. This thread has been closed in GC, but not moved to EotW because of the amount of spam in it. If you are currently unable to make posts in EotW because of a ban, that's tough cookies, but don't make political or world events threads in general chat. We have them separated for a reason. Mostly to prohibit staff from doing this.

http://users.rcn.com/ark/gallery/dole.jpg

[Shoeberto]

I think that I should abuse my mod power at this point in order to show that I was right about the Nuge. (Gee Whiz) (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:j8jgtq0ztu43)

[rubah]

You said that he had an error2 timeout? Kooky.