Another hurricane?

[Sasquatch]

So tonight, Hurricane Rita is going to hit the coast of Texas. Last I heard, it should be a Category 4, but it might end up as a Category 5. It might sweep through Galveston, which has been hit by prettymuch every bad thing you can imagine, and who's defenses against hurricanes and storm surges (17' wall around the city) have only been tested by Cat 3's. Some damage estimates have reached $800 billion -- that's $800,000,000,000. Houston, the fourth largest city in America, is nearly a ghost town now because of everybody having evacuated.

You heard me. Everybody left.

People said "Hey, there's a bigass storm coming, and everybody is telling me to leave, so I think I WILL." Very few people are staying back to weather the storm (no pun intended).

My question is...why? Why do they follow directions in Houston, but not in New Orleans, where they knew it would be incredibly devastating? Is it because those in Houston have places to go to get away, and those in New Orleans didn't? Or are people in Houston just smarter, and listen to repeated warnings to evacuate, while people in New Orleans ignored them? Is it that the emergency teams are racist and Texas is better warned becuase there aren't as many blacks there? Or could it be simply that people saw what Katrina did, and are more willing to listen when they say "get the hell out"?

Another thing I do like, too. Texas has a "looter law". Meaning, if you see somebody coming on your property with the direct intent to cause harm to you or your property, you have the legal right to shoot them. Food stores and such, this won't happen -- taking food from the Quicky-Mart isn't looting -- but what happened in New Orleans, where some people took advantage of the opportunity to steal everything they could get their hands on? Uh-uh.

[Dreddz]

Tragic, affected us down here in Uk as well with Oil prices and all......

[Laugh at face of Danger]

is this as in a third one?

~oh no its not, and anyway, its because people were stubborn as hell and though "screw the storm, we'll stay" but after other people have seen what happened before they thought "okay, maybe we'll go..."

[eestlinc]

Many people didn't leave New Orleans because they had no way to leave other than on foot, and sheriffs from neighboring areas over higher ground formed armed blockades preventing people from New Orleans entering these outlying areas. Others didn't leave because they figured it wouldn't be such a bad storm, and because New Orleansians are notoriously stubborn and prideful about such things.

That said, over 80% of New Orleans did evacuate. I would image a smaller percent of Houstonians evacuated than that, and the evacuation order in Houston was only mandatory for those in floodplain areas. Anyway, it makes perfect sense for more people to pay heed to hurricane evacuations only weeks after a major hurricane devastated another nearby area.

Also, Hurricane Rita has been downgraded to Cat 3 and is continuing to weaken. It's also likely not going to make a direct hit on Galveston or Houston, but hit between Galveston and Port Arthur. Of course, who knows what will happen until it does.

<b>Finally, we do have a discussion of the hurricane in the EotW forum, and those of you who are unable to see that forum miss out on that discussion, such as it is.</b>

[Sasquatch]

Many people didn't leave New Orleans because they had no way to leave other than on foot, and sheriffs from neighboring areas over higher ground formed armed blockades preventing people from New Orleans entering these outlying areas.

You're telling me local police officers formed "armed blockades" to prevent people from getting to higher ground in a situation where they knew there'd be massive flooding? Do you have any sources that would back up that claim?


<b>Finally, we do have a discussion of the hurricane in the EotW forum, and those of you who are unable to see that forum miss out on that discussion, such as it is.</b>

Sorry, I forgot. No serious discussions in GC, only spam.

<b>EDIT BY RSL</b> --- eestlinc's comments were in response to about 15 modwhore posts that were deleted in this thread. This thread is fine.

[eestlinc]

You're telling me local police officers formed "armed blockades" to prevent people from getting to higher ground in a situation where they knew there'd be massive flooding? Do you have any sources that would back up that claim?
yes. from the Sep 9, 2005 Washington Times, no less:

http://washtimes.com/upi/20050908-112433-4907r.htm

Police from surrounding jurisdictions shut down several access points to one of the only ways out of New Orleans last week, effectively trapping victims of Hurricane Katrina in the flooded and devastated city.
An eyewitness account from two San Francisco paramedics posted on an internet site for Emergency Medical Services specialists says, "Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the city on foot."
"We shut down the bridge," Arthur Lawson, chief of the City of Gretna Police Department, confirmed to United Press International, adding that his jurisdiction had been "a closed and secure location" since before the storm hit.
"All our people had evacuated and we locked the city down," he said.
The bridge in question -- the Crescent City Connection -- is the major artery heading west out of New Orleans across the Mississippi River.
Lawson said that once the storm itself had passed Monday, police from Gretna City, Jefferson Parrish and the Louisiana State Crescent City Connection Police Department closed to foot traffic the three access points to the bridge closest to the West Bank of the river.

[Traitorfish]

Tragic, affected us down here in Uk as well with Oil prices and all......
Not really a tragedy, was it? More of a slight inconvenience? Unless you're a trucker, then it's a considerable inconvenience. But still not a tradgedy.
I think they left this time because the world's just had a reminder of how bad these things can be.

EDIT: That's not very nice, about the police blockade. How could they do that? It's sick.
He he. Sasquatch was proved wrong. He always says 'What? A slight contradiction to my own views! Blasphemy!'. It's annoying.

[Sasquatch]

yes. from the Sep 9, 2005 Washington Times, no less:

http://washtimes.com/upi/20050908-112433-4907r.htm

Police from surrounding jurisdictions shut down several access points to one of the only ways out of New Orleans last week, effectively trapping victims of Hurricane Katrina in the flooded and devastated city.
An eyewitness account from two San Francisco paramedics posted on an internet site for Emergency Medical Services specialists says, "Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the city on foot."
"We shut down the bridge," Arthur Lawson, chief of the City of Gretna Police Department, confirmed to United Press International, adding that his jurisdiction had been "a closed and secure location" since before the storm hit.
"All our people had evacuated and we locked the city down," he said.
The bridge in question -- the Crescent City Connection -- is the major artery heading west out of New Orleans across the Mississippi River.
Lawson said that once the storm itself had passed Monday, police from Gretna City, Jefferson Parrish and the Louisiana State Crescent City Connection Police Department closed to foot traffic the three access points to the bridge closest to the West Bank of the river.

I stand corrected. However...

-- "There was no food, water or shelter" in Gretna City, Lawson said. "We did not have the wherewithal to deal with these people.
-- "Evidently, someone on the ground (in New Orleans) was telling people there was transport here, or food or shelter," said Lawson. "There wasn't."
-- "We commandeered public transit buses and we took them to higher and safer ground" at the junction of Interstate-10 and Causeway Boulevard where "there was food and shelter," he said.

Sounds to me like one bridge was closed to avoid another area being further overcrowded, which wouldn't have helped anything. Doesn't sound like the city was quarantined. It isn't like the there was some closing closing envelope and nobody was let out anywhere, or they were marched at gunpoint into the flooded city.


Not really a tragedy, was it? More of a slight inconvenience? Unless you're a trucker, then it's a considerable inconvenience. But still not a tradgedy.

Actually, I'm sure Dreddz mentioned "tragic" in regards to what happened to new Orleans, not what happened to gas prices in the UK. When more than 800 people die and somebody mentions "tragic", it's not because it made gas prices go up. Most people value life more than that.

[Giga Guess]

Why did people evacuate Houston, but not New Orleans?

Have you heard the saying "Once bitten twice shy?" The people in New Orleans either thought they've seen enough hurricanes they can handle this one, or just weren't able to evacuate. Now that Bush has a MAJOR embarassment on his hands, he's not taking any chances in Houston, because, as said, it's the 4th largest city in the U.S. and the death toll if this didn't happened could potentially be astronomical.

[Sasquatch]

...actually... How was Katrina an embarrassment for Bush? The late response by the National Guard? No, that's under state control. FEMA? No, Bush doesn't really control that either. It was a complete failure, in nearly all aspects, on the part of the government of New Orleans, and even Louisiana, but there's not much the federal government was supposed to do, or could do anyway. It's a shame that he's got to go to Texas to "save face". He shouldn't have to go, he doesn't really, but if he doesn't, some people (ahem) will just insult more.

[Giga Guess]

Truthfully, you ARE right....I guess I worded myself poorly. But it is the case, at any rate that this time around, there HAD to be quick action.

[Sasquatch]

True. Whether Bush went there or not, we're much better prepared for Rita than we were for Katrina. It could be because Texas has a more competant government than Louisiana, or simply that we know how serious the situation can be now that it's already happened to New Orleans. Of, more likely, a combination of the two. This time, the National Guard is already prepared, and they've already lined up relief operations and supplies. They're already pulled off a better evacuation of Houston than of any area around Katrina, and nearly every aspect of Houston's preperation is better than that of New Orleans. Here's to hoping Rita is nowhere near as destructive as Katrina.

[Shlup]

I'm just assuming that everyone--both citizens and officials--are responding better to Rita because they've learned their lesson from Katrina, other than the fact that Huston residents are more likely to have a car to get into and drive away.

[eestlinc]

How was Katrina an embarrassment for Bush? The late response by the National Guard? No, that's under state control. FEMA? No, Bush doesn't really control that either. It was a complete failure, in nearly all aspects, on the part of the government of New Orleans, and even Louisiana, but there's not much the federal government was supposed to do, or could do anyway.
Bush could have, perhaps, staffed FEMA with competent experts in disaster management, rather than stuffing it with political hacks as thanks for campaign work. Or, he could take the role of the federal government seriously rather than intentionally undermining the ability of government agencies to operate successfully. You say the state and local governments sucked it up, and they did, but large scale natural disasters are generally beyond the scope of even the best state and local governments. This is exactly why its important to have a capable and trained federal organization to manage the response to such overwhelming disasters. You say Texas has handled their hurricane much better, but it hasn't hit yet, and we don't know what will happen when and after it hits. Time will tell. I certainly hope we can respond better.

[-N-]

I'm just assuming that everyone--both citizens and officials--are responding better to Rita because they've learned their lesson from Katrina.My parents are slow learners. :\

[Sasquatch]

Bush could have, perhaps, staffed FEMA with competent experts in disaster management, rather than stuffing it with political hacks as thanks for campaign work. Or, he could take the role of the federal government seriously rather than intentionally undermining the ability of government agencies to operate successfully. You say the state and local governments sucked it up, and they did, but large scale natural disasters are generally beyond the scope of even the best state and local governments.

Is there anything you DON'T blame on Bush, no matter how far out of the bounds of rationality and logic you have to go to do it? Bush didn't staff FEMA much, and when he did, it wasn't any differently than anybody in the past has. And how has he "intentionally [undermined] the ability of government agencies to operate successfully"? Tell me, which government agencies has he "intentionally" screwed with, just so that they can't operate successfully? And how so?

There was an extraordinarily large amount of preperations the government of New Orleans and Louisiana could have taken control of before and after Katrina hit that would have greatly lessened the loss of human life and degredation of the city. Much more than the federal government could have done. These governments happen to be run by Democrats ... just thought I'd put that out there. But of course, it's still all Bush's fault.

[Del Murder]

The weather is always the weatherman's fault. Everyone knows this.

Has there ever been two big hurricanes back to back like this?

[Shlup]

Not since the last apocolypse.

[eestlinc]

Bush didn't staff FEMA much, and when he did, it wasn't any differently than anybody in the past has.
Bill Clinton specifically assigned James Lee Witt as FEMA chief because he had much notable experience, and he was roundly praised on both sides of the aisle for his handling of emergencies like the Northridge quake in 1994.


And how has he "intentionally [undermined] the ability of government agencies to operate successfully"? Tell me, which government agencies has he "intentionally" screwed with, just so that they can't operate successfully? And how so?The dismantling of government is a central tenet of Norquistian conservatism. Do you really want me to list all the federal agencies the Bush administration has staffed with hacks, or driven out all the knowledgeable policy heads. Try the treasury, or HUD for example. Actually look into it. Conservatism claims that government is the problem rather than the solution, and therefore the solution involves removing government. It's very clear if not overtly stated.


There was an extraordinarily large amount of preperations the government of New Orleans and Louisiana could have taken control of before and after Katrina hit that would have greatly lessened the loss of human life and degredation of the city. Much more than the federal government could have done. These governments happen to be run by Democrats ... just thought I'd put that out there. But of course, it's still all Bush's fault.
I said the local governments have plenty of fault as well, but you imagine Bush could do nothing to fix anything, and when he was able he suddenly performed perfectly. I use Bush to represent his administration since he is the leader and all actions of his administration are his responsibility. It's not a Republican or Democrat thing. It's a good management vs bad management thing.


Has there ever been two big hurricanes back to back like this?
Last year when Florence and Ivan both hit central florida. or whichever ones they were. last year had too many big hurricanes.

[The Man]

I'd just like to point out the vastly different treatment Bush gave Barbour and Blanco. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-12-two-governors_x.html)


Blanco declared a state of emergency Aug. 26 three days before the storm and followed the steps in her disaster playbook. On Aug. 31, she asked Bush for "everything you've got." But some commentators and officials have blamed her for problems such as flawed communication and blocked aid....

She says that two days after Katrina, desperate for help, she couldn't get through to Bush and didn't get a callback; hours later, she tried again, and they talked....

Barbour hasn't had to wait hours to talk to Bush. In fact, Barbour said in an interview with USA TODAY, the president called him three to four times in the wake of Katrina. "I never called him. He always called me," he said.
lol librul media

[SeeDRankLou]

I live in Houston. I was going to leave for Austin, but I10 was so backed up that I would have run out of gas on the road, which I would have rather not done. I thought that I was planning early enough, but apparently I wasn't. I'm currently staying at my friend's place which has two foot concrete walls, so I'm pretty safe, and my car should be alright. It's on the street, but this place didn't flood during tropical storm Allison, so no flooding should happen. Besides, the hurricane is hitting very east of us, unfortunate for Beaumont, but fortunate for us. Power is going out in several places, but I'm currently fine. So everyone, don't worry that much, the damage and stuff seems to be bareable. The news reports of people dieing while waiting in traffic was extraordinarily disheartening though.

[Shoden]

has it hit yet?

[SeeDRankLou]

Yes. The winds are fierce, but not extraordinarily destructive or anything. My car is still alright.

[Shoden]

looks l,ike the wing area is on land.

If a third hurricane shows up like this one the coast is pretty much screwed.

[Shlup]

Craziness. Let us know how things keep on, Lou. If you don't post for awhile we're all gonna be like "O.O" and/or "D:".

[Shoden]

exactly.

Let us know how bad it is.

[SeeDRankLou]

Well, they are saying bad things about Beaumont, as they got the brunt force of Rita. The winds are gusting very badly where I am, but the rain is not much of an issue. I will be alright, so don't worry about me or anything, but thanks for the concern. I will try to keep you posted, if I don't it's probably because the power went out.

[Shoden]

Thats where a laptop on wireless comes in handy.

[SammieBabe]

As a lifelong Florida resident, I can offer this tidbit of wisdom... Hurricanes suck. For six months we are on edge. Last year was the worst. While they might not have all been huge hurricanes, 4 in six weeks in already low-lying areas took its toll. Until last year, we hadn't had many major storms in recent history. We got spoiled, we got cocky. Same with the entire Gulf Coast. People just have to remember that Mother Nature was here first and she has PMS like every other woman. Just be prepared and heed warnings. That's all we can hope for. ;)

[SeeDRankLou]

The hurricane is almost gone, there are only a few clouds left to deal with. The wind ended up being not so bad. The only thing we have to worry about now is if the hurricane stalls or turns around and comes back here, which is a slight possibility. Hopefully it won't happen, but it's a possibility.

[SammieBabe]

You'll probably still get some feeder bands for awhile.... As for her turning around, it is a definite possibility, but she will have weakend greatly.....

[Shoden]

The worst should be over by Tuesday

[Cloud No.9]

the movement has slowed down which is a problem. slower movement means it takes in more water and regains power if it is over a hydrated area.

[Giga Guess]

Bush could have, perhaps, staffed FEMA with competent experts in disaster management, rather than stuffing it with political hacks as thanks for campaign work. Or, he could take the role of the federal government seriously rather than intentionally undermining the ability of government agencies to operate successfully. You say the state and local governments sucked it up, and they did, but large scale natural disasters are generally beyond the scope of even the best state and local governments.

Is there anything you DON'T blame on Bush, no matter how far out of the bounds of rationality and logic you have to go to do it? Bush didn't staff FEMA much, and when he did, it wasn't any differently than anybody in the past has. And how has he "intentionally [undermined] the ability of government agencies to operate successfully"? Tell me, which government agencies has he "intentionally" screwed with, just so that they can't operate successfully? And how so?

There was an extraordinarily large amount of preperations the government of New Orleans and Louisiana could have taken control of before and after Katrina hit that would have greatly lessened the loss of human life and degredation of the city. Much more than the federal government could have done. These governments happen to be run by Democrats ... just thought I'd put that out there. But of course, it's still all Bush's fault.

To be fair, I don't know how it works down there, but here in Canada, if someplace gets in it deep (no pun intended) the military is called in to lend a hand, pile sandbags, the likes. Because Bush has 'em in Afghanistan, AND Iraq, the U.S. didn't have as much help allocated there.

[Shoden]

It cannot pull itself so fast so more damage in a massive area for a longer ammount of time.

It could get to 140MPH MAX if it rehydrates, which I doubt.

[Traitorfish]

Actually, I'm sure Dreddz mentioned "tragic" in regards to what happened to new Orleans, not what happened to gas prices in the UK. When more than 800 people die and somebody mentions "tragic", it's not because it made gas prices go up. Most people value life more than that.
Not you, though, as previous threads will show- you once said that stopping companies harming people was 'stupid'.
Anyway, Dreddz should have made himself more clear.

[Shoden]

I'm confused why it won't show up on google earth anymore.

[Sasquatch]

You could see it on Google Earth? I wish I knew that, I would have checked it out.

Hit the other day...once it all settles, we'll see how bad the damage is...


Not you, though, as previous threads will show- you once said that stopping companies harming people was 'stupid'.
Anyway, Dreddz should have made himself more clear.

A normal person wouldn't have to clarify that "tragic" was referring to the loss of life and the destruction, not the few extra cents at the pump. Everybody else understood that, just not you.

And wrong again -- I said that your idea of shutting down every company that might have had something to do with one early death was stupid and would result in every company shutting down, period. And it wasn't in a thread, it was in a PM that you sent me ater getting stomped every which way in a public thread.

[Shoden]

You could see it using some kind of refresh button that isn't on anymore.

[The Man]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article314510.ece


Super-powerful hurricanes now hitting the United States are the "smoking gun" of global warming, one of Britain's leading scientists believes.

The growing violence of storms such as Katrina, which wrecked New Orleans, and Rita, now threatening Texas, is very probably caused by climate change, said Sir John Lawton, chairman of the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution. Hurricanes were getting more intense, just as computer models predicted they would, because of the rising temperature of the sea, he said. "The increased intensity of these kinds of extreme storms is very likely to be due to global warming."

In a series of outspoken comments - a thinly veiled attack on the Bush administration, Sir John hit out at neoconservatives in the US who still deny the reality of climate change.

Referring to the arrival of Hurricane Rita he said: "If this makes the climate loonies in the States realise we've got a problem, some good will come out of a truly awful situation." As he spoke, more than a million people were fleeing north away from the coast of Texas as Rita, one of the most intense storms on record, roared through the Gulf of Mexico. It will probably make landfall tonight or early tomorrow near Houston, America's fourth largest city and the centre of its oil industry. Highways leading inland from Houston were clogged with traffic for up to 100 miles north.

There are real fears that Houston could suffer as badly from Rita just as New Orleans suffered from Hurricane Katrina less than a month ago.

Asked what conclusion the Bush administration should draw from two hurricanes of such high intensity hitting the US in quick succession, Sir John said: "If what looks like is going to be a horrible mess causes the extreme sceptics about climate change in the US to reconsider their opinion, that would be an extremely valuable outcome."

Asked about characterising them as "loonies", he said: "There are a group of people in various parts of the world ... who simply don't want to accept human activities can change climate and are changing the climate."

"I'd liken them to the people who denied that smoking causes lung cancer."

With his comments, Sir John becomes the third of the leaders of Britain's scientific establishment to attack the US over the Bush government's determination to cast doubt on global warming as a real phenomenon.

Sir John's comments follow and support recent research, much of it from America itself, showing that hurricanes are getting more violent and suggesting climate change is the cause.

A paper by US researchers, last week in the US journal Science, showed that storms of the intensity of Hurricane Katrina have become almost twice as common in the past 35 years.

Although the overall frequency of tropical storms worldwide has remained broadly level since 1970, the number of extreme category 4 and 5 events has sharply risen. In the 1970s, there was an average of about 10 category 4 and 5 hurricanes per year but, since 1990, they have nearly doubled to an average of about 18 a year. During the same period, sea surface temperatures, among the key drivers of hurricane intensity, have increased by an average of 0.5C (0.9F).

Sir John said: "Increasingly it looks like a smoking gun. It's a fair conclusion to draw that global warming, caused to a substantial extent by people, is driving increased sea surface temperatures and increasing the violence of hurricanes."

[Shoden]

Not just global warming I reckon.

Natural cycles of the seas letting warmer currents into the waters ever 10-60 years is more believable as this "Cycle" has passed before last century.

[The Man]

It's quite likely a combination of natural and manmade factors, but a large percentage of greenhouse gas emissions are manmade, so we're obviously not helping anything.

[Cloud No.9]

this particular point in time may have been bad already. though there is actually limited accurate data going back far enough to see a real pattern.

but man made co2 (the vast majority of the stuff) and global warming because of it is only going to make a bad situation worse.

[Shoden]

Tropical Storm now peeps.

[Sasquatch]

Well once it hits land, it loses its power relatively quickly.

Few "neoconservatives" believe Global Warming is entirely false. We just question whether it's the result of human operations, or the natural cycle in climate change that's supposedly been going on for billions of years. And since there's not really a way to prove it, there's not much we can do from there. (Emissions have gone up, and global warming is starting to take affect. That doesn't mean it's because emissions have gone up. I guess most liberals tend to forget the big "global cooling" scare they tried back in the 70s.)

[Shoden]

Anyone remember Hurricane Floyd?

The remains of it hit the UK as the 1987 October Great storm.

[Sasquatch]

Yeah, there have been terrible storms throughout history. But when they hit now, they're because of "Global Warming", according to some people.

They were talking about a hurricane in 1900 that nearly wiped out Galveston...which was prettymuch the reason for Houston being there. Without that hurricane, Galveston would have remained the dominant city for quite a while. But Galveston has had all sorts of bad things happen to them, it's almost amazing it's survived this long.

[Shoden]

It aint just global warming, you cannot point the finger at it just now.

According to analysis of trapped particles of the atmosphere in the artic scientists have found it was a hell of alot hotter in prehistoric times than it is now.

[Traitorfish]

Not you, though, as previous threads will show- you once said that stopping companies harming people was 'stupid'.
Anyway, Dreddz should have made himself more clear.

A normal person wouldn't have to clarify that "tragic" was referring to the loss of life and the destruction, not the few extra cents at the pump. Everybody else understood that, just not you.

And wrong again -- I said that your idea of shutting down every company that might have had something to do with one early death was stupid and would result in every company shutting down, period. And it wasn't in a thread, it was in a PM that you sent me ater getting stomped every which way in a public thread.
Yeah, sure, OK, whatever, Hail the Glorious Empire, Long Live Emperor Bush and so on.
I don't want to drag your capitalist drivel into this topic, so just stop with this whole thing (I know I started it, so I shall stop too).
...
'Neo-Conservative', ey? Nothing with 'neo' can be good... it means it didn't work the first time and someone hasn't got it...

I guess most liberals tend to forget the big "global cooling" scare they tried back in the 70s.
Who tried? Liberals? Scientists? Evil chimps with bicycles for teeth? Elaborate!
...
And Shodens right- it was hotter inpre-historic times. Infact, the last few million years are the first time that the earth's had a permanent ice cap for hundreds of millions of years.
But that doesn't change global warming, wether or not it caused the hurricanes.

[Shoden]

This is getting me heavilly interested in Meteorology.

Global Warming or not this is indeed an active and violent hurricane season, we may see another hurricane like Andrew or David if this keeps up.

A hurricane the size of Rita with conditions and route of Andrew could screw the coast but if the right precautions are taken less damage and casualties will take place.

Even if Rita flopped there is no reason to get over confident or pissed off.

It's mother nature and you cannot fight against it.

[Shoden]

Who was black?

[Sasquatch]

'Neo-Conservative', ey? Nothing with 'neo' can be good... it means it didn't work the first time and someone hasn't got it...

I guess most liberals tend to forget the big "global cooling" scare they tried back in the 70s.
Who tried? Liberals? Scientists? Evil chimps with bicycles for teeth? Elaborate!
...
And Shodens right- it was hotter inpre-historic times. Infact, the last few million years are the first time that the earth's had a permanent ice cap for hundreds of millions of years.
But that doesn't change global warming, wether or not it caused the hurricanes.

"Neoconservative" is a term coined by "neoliberals" to try to make "conservative" sound worse.

And "liberals...they" would convey that "they" is referring to "liberals". Simple enough, right? Yes, liberals tried a "global cooling" scare a few decades ago. Look it up.

Yes, global warming may even help the creation of more powerful hurricanes. Most hurricanes gain power as they travel over warmer water. The question is still whether or not human interference is causing it, or if it's simply the continuation of natural cycles.

[Shoden]

Hurricane Kenneth is on his way.

[Giga Guess]

Hooray.

[Shoden]

hopefully

Jova and Kenneth = Hurricanes

Max and Norma = Tropical storms

hopefully they'll avoid ya's