Vividarium Intervigilium Viator

[*__*)]

Okay, this is an answer to a puzzle in Ultimecia's castle. What I'm wondering is, does it have any special meaning behind it? Since it means "In the garden dozes a messenger" in english, I thought it may be talking about Rinoa- she does have an angel theme, (and angel diriving from the Greek "messenger"). And she was in that coma too.

OH, also, does anyone know where I can go online to see the paintings in Ultimecia's castle, I'd like to get a good look at them.

[crazybayman]

Okay, this is an answer to a puzzle in Ultimecia's castle. What I'm wondering is, does it have any special meaning behind it? Since it means "In the garden dozes a messenger" in english, I thought it may be talking about Rinoa- she does have an angel theme, (and angel diriving from the Greek "messenger").
Another interpretation could be Diablos in the Lamp, seen as how his attack is called Dark Messenger, and he sleeps in the lamp until you awaken him.

Another interpretation may be the SeeDs in Balamb Garden (or Trabia or Galbadia).

I'm sure there's many interpretations.

[enigma1234]

I'm sorry if this is off-topic but why is it that always Latin words are used on FFVIII?
like "Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator" thats Latin right? (In the garden sleeps a messenger) also the song "Liberi Fatali" (Children of Fate) and the paintings in ultimecia's castle why does it always have to be Latin and the word "children" is somehow always pronounced there and a new Final Fantasy was born...Advent of Children...

Now about the topic in ultimecia's castle I think everything there is related to the FF group not only rinoa...the painting there named "Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator" kinda looks like the garden in edea's orphanage and the falls like thingy painting it looks like it relates to the sea in the orphanage...the one you saw in the introduction movie...

I have a theory about the word "Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator". I think it talks about squall...1st word "In the Garden" squall lives in the orphanage (theres a garden there) and also in the balamb garden he even went to galbadia garden and even travels thru trabia garden..."Sleeps" I think waiting for the right moment to deliver the message...and lastly "A Messenger" squall delivered to Edea the message that a Seed organization must be build in order to defeat ultimecia and to save the world...It all began in the garden and it also end in the garden..

I'm going to add more of this after I sleep in my beautiful bed of garden and deliver to you people the message tomorrow.

[GunbladeMaster]

simple answer:
LATIN
IS
COOL
:D

[Skyblade]

simple answer:
LATIN
IS
COOL
:D

Listen to the wise man, for he speaks the truth.

[GunbladeMaster]

yeah squall is a good theory
but Diablos makes the most sense because he literally is sleeping in the Garden in a magical lamp and cas of his attack **dark MESSENGER** it would be stupid not to say that this message refers to Diablos

[GunbladeMaster]

sorry cait sith
i searched but i cudnt find anything about her pics in the gallery room

[*__*)]

Yes, that one is good. A little too good. But when I think of it, I can't go anywhere with it. What would Ultimicia (or the great Hyne or squaresoft or whoever) care about diablos to make such a puzzle (dealing with time). I have a feeling that diablos is a red herring. Like someone wants us to guess wrong, and trys to kill us (Diablos did want Squall and the others to die at first...)

I like enigma1234's idea, and it even goes with the painting too. Good thinking there! It fits nicely.

But it still could have something to do with Rinoa. What if when Rinoa was in a coma, that her conscious was someplace, sometime els? If someone were to walk in an Squall while his conscious was being sent to the past via Elone, he would apear to them to be unconscious- in a coma. Ultimicia is much more interested in Rinoa than in Diablos.

[GunbladeMaster]

ur over analyzing

[*__*)]

you're right, but still...

[rubah]

for some reason, I remember someone telling me that it referred to selphie, but what do I know?

[GunbladeMaster]

i had the same idea!
she was a messenger in the SeeD exam and she sleeps in garden
it works

[*__*)]

Big D said this,
Now, is there a 'messenger' in any 'garden' in the world? Why, yes - there's Selphie. The 'little messenger girl', as Seifer calls her, because of her role in the Dollet mission. But what's that 'sleeping' line about? Well, there's strong evidence that Selphie is actually a sorceress and doesn't know it. She can use magic without having to draw or junction it - just like the other sorceresses in the game. It's mentioned in the Tutorial that sorceresses possess the inherent ability to use magic. Selphie only uses magic during her Limit Break, though - evidence that it's a repressed ability, something she doesn't openly acknowledge. Thus, one can only prove that she is a secret, 'sleeping' sorceress.

This beats my idea about what it is about. Intervigilium (acording to online latin-english dictionaries) doesn't mean sleep so much as it does "a nap, a doze, forty winks" It's lighter than usual sleep, okay? When we know that Selphie uses magic, she must have some awareness of her powers, right?, this is where the doze part comes in. Dormio is the Latin verb that is usualy used in reference to sleep.

[GunbladeMaster]

WHOA NOW SELPHIE IS A SORCERESS TOO?
HOW CAN THAT BE POSSIBLE
ISNT THEIR ONLY ONE SORCERESS AND THEN THERES A NEW ONE
NOT 2 SORCERESSES IN THE SAME time period.
it goes Adel---->Edea----->Rinoa
not
Adel----->Edea-----> Rinoa
*************** /Selphie

[G SpOtZ]

i think it has to do with squall. and the ending. if you haven't finished it yet, then that sux for you because i'm about to spoil just a little of it.

He's on a lonely abandoned life-less piece of land at first... let's say that's the part about "sleeping"
then all of a sudden the flowers and plants bloom everywhere and it becomes more of a "garden"
the "messenger" part, i think, is about the part when squall was talking to matron in the past, and ulti appears before edea to pass on her powers.

who knows.

[*__*)]

WHOA NOW SELPHIE IS A SORCERESS TOO?
HOW CAN THAT BE POSSIBLE
ISNT THEIR ONLY ONE SORCERESS AND THEN THERES A NEW ONE
NOT 2 SORCERESSES IN THE SAME time period.
it goes Adel---->Edea----->Rinoa
not
Adel----->Edea-----> Rinoa
*************** /Selphie
I think that there can be many, this is from Ultimania-
....However, there are also many Sorceresses who have chosen to live a quiet life sheltered away from civilized society; as such, the actual number of Sorceresses and the amount of power shared between them remains unknown.

The potential to become a sorceress is determined by one's capacity to wield such power – their natural affinity for magic....

That last part would make Selphie a definite canidate.

[Faith Chama]

I think Squall was the messenger who toled Edea about SeeDs and Garden.

[GunbladeMaster]

I think that there can be many, this is from Ultimania-
....However, there are also many Sorceresses who have chosen to live a quiet life sheltered away from civilized society; as such, the actual number of Sorceresses and the amount of power shared between them remains unknown.

The potential to become a sorceress is determined by one's capacity to wield such power – their natural affinity for magic....

That last part would make Selphie a definite canidate.

I think what that means is that over the years some sorceresses live a quiet life before they pass on their powers and then the next one could be famous but then they pass on their powers to another who lives their life away from everyone.
I think thats wat it means not that there are other many sorceresses hiding somewhere
So i think the timeline looks something like this:
?????------>?????------>Adel------->?????------->Edea------Rinoa
the ?s are sorceresses who lived their life away from society

[enigma1234]

yeah squall is a good theory
but Diablos makes the most sense because he literally is sleeping in the Garden in a magical lamp and cas of his attack **dark MESSENGER** it would be stupid not to say that this message refers to Diablos


"Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator"

Yes, diablo's is also a great idea but what about Pupu? he/she/it traveled all over the world and you follow all he's/her/it's path, he travels alot and at the end of his/her/its journey he/she/it decides to stop(we can consider this as sleep,doze,nap) at the place where balamb garden used to be located and by the looks of it he/she/it wants to deliver us a message or tell us something but the problem is that we can't understand him/her/it...Timber Maniacs Magazine even made a story about an alien traveling all over the world and collecting stuffs(pyramid,cow,sheep,etc and the sightings)....

I think the so called "fairies" that sent squall and the group to the past(flashbacks) as laguna,kiros and ward is Pupu...hmmm I think he/she/it wants to tell squall that laguna is he's father... or was it ellone or maybe pupu who gave them the flashbacks about laguna's journey....


This is an add-on about my 1st theory on squall being the messenger do you remember the scene where squall was imprisoned in the desert prison? the scene is when the guard is tourturing and questioning Squall what's the meaning of SeeD and it's purpose and Squall says "flowers"...Garden have flowers right...

more to be unfold....

[enigma1234]

yeah squall is a good theory
but Diablos makes the most sense because he literally is sleeping in the Garden in a magical lamp and cas of his attack **dark MESSENGER** it would be stupid not to say that this message refers to Diablos


Yeah, maybe your right and why is it that the iron giant(red giant) in Ultimecia's Castle is afraid of diablos did they fought before? and when you use diablos on him the damage would be 9999....and he says something...

[GunbladeMaster]

what does he say?

[Rusty]

I've always thought that 'In the garden sleeps a messenger' referred to Selphie, due to the fact at the very start of the game she was the messenger in the SeeD exam/test in Dollet. But Diablos does seem to associate with the saying better.

[enigma1234]

what does he say?

Im not sure about this but I think he will say "arghh you have diablo's"
or this "diablo's what are you doing here?" and when you defeated him using diablo's as a last attack he will also say something...I think "It has been to long..."

I cant play FFVIII b'cuz my PS1 is broken...I can't battle red giant and can't confirm this...if you still have your PS1 and memory card (saved file ultimecia's castle) please try summoning diablos on the boss red giant...

[enigma1234]

"Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator" who is much suitable to be the messenger and related to the painting is it Diablos,Squall,Selphie,Pupu,Rinoa or ???

[GunbladeMaster]

i cant find anything on the internet about what red giant says
but ill keep looking

[GunbladeMaster]

i beleive Red Giant actually say something about Humans.
If i remember correctly once you lower his defense he says "how can u mortals do sucha thing"
and when u beat him he say "How could i lose to a human."
I dont remember anything about Diablos but those 2 lines i said seem more familiar to me.

[enigma1234]

i beleive Red Giant actually say something about Humans.
If i remember correctly once you lower his defense he says "how can u mortals do sucha thing"
and when u beat him he say "How could i lose to a human."
I dont remember anything about Diablos but those 2 lines i said seem more familiar to me.


Have you tried using diablo's on him? Im sure he said something when I used diablos on him.

[GunbladeMaster]

yes i used em.
besides if he did say that most people would remember as we remember what these people said in: the final battle, the battle with ifrit, the 1st battle with fujiin and rajiin, etc.
Most people remember those things but i dont recall that in the batle with the red giant.

[*__*)]

i cant find anything on the internet about what red giant says
but ill keep looking

All that I managed to find was this-

Ultimecia Castle-Prison

<The door closes. As he party picks up a nearby key, Red Giant appears.>

Red Giant

"Face my wrath for seeking the sealed power..."

Red Giant

"GwahaHA! Physical attacKS? UseleSS!"

So the Red Giant is faught in the prison section of the castle. Maybe Diablos was a bad GF and had to stay there a while, but then he was still bad so Ultimecia sealed him in a lamp:p maybe not...
Doesn't Cid call Diablos a cursed item or something along those lines. I wonder how it became cursed:confused:

[GunbladeMaster]

diablos is seifer from the future and greiver is squall
ultimecia aka rinoa liked squall better than seifer so she sealed seifer and threw his conscious back in time in a magic lamp where he should have remained forever. Squall became her loyal guardian.
Diablos returned after many years in the past with Squall.
Red giant, being Zell, was so shocked that his arch nemesis was back that he had to kill him. (this explains why he has such a high attack and high defense cas he doesn want seifer to see his real "chicken-wussines")
Thus Future Zell was defeated and here we are asking ourselves what did Red Giant say during the battle.
"Physical attacks? Useless against me!"

Which of course was "lame chicken wussiness lingo" for

"Diablos (aka Seifer) my arch nemesis is the only one that isnt useless against me"

[enigma1234]

Sorry if this is off-topic but arent genies lives/imprisoned in a lamp? well diablos lives in a lamp its kinda like hes a demon genie but doesn't gives wishes but instead death hihihihi
(Im sure red giant said something after I used diablo's on him)
(I think I lead you guyz far from the thread topic sorry...)

Who is much more suitable to be the messenger and much more related to the painting "In the Garden Sleeps a Messenger" is it Diablos,Squall,Selphie,Pupu,Rinoa or ???

[*__*)]

I think that it's Squall. He gave the message to Matron about the idea for Garden and SeeD. SeeD aparently makes Ultimecia VERY upset. She would therefore have a strong fixation with Squall- the messenger-, he being the one who gave the message for SeeD so long ago. The big reason for this is that it goes so well with the painting that looks to be the spot where Ultimecia dies, and Edea inherits more power, and Squall gives the idea for SeeD. Three major events, all at that place.

[GunbladeMaster]

lol "Who is the Messenger" it sounds like a mystery game.
U should make ur own opinion and make a riddle\game about this:D

[BG-57]

I've suggested Diablos in the past, but for slightly different reasons.

While the Messenger made me think of the Diablos, the garden I thought of was Eden. I think the GF Eden is an organic Garden which would makes her the Garden of Eden. Diablos is the Devil, the serpent that tricked Adam and Eve. :radred:

An allegory about corruption would suit Ultemecia's Castle perfectly. Although I can't fit in the other paintings into a unifying theme. Most likely they picked Latin words based solely on the number of Xs, Is and Vs for obvious reasons and created the pictures later to match.

[GunbladeMaster]

it cant be someone else cause that would be stupid
it can only be Squall or Diablos

This is off topic but....................
we know that time goes in a loop in the FF8 world cas of ulti right? well how do we know that in one of these loops squall picked up the Magical Lamp in ultis castle and then beat ulti and went to Edea and gave her the lamp for unknown reasons.
That way Cid could have gotten a hold of the lamp and then have given it to squall in Balamb Garden. Thus Diablos is actually from Ultis time who was brought to the past by Squall

[Christmas]

I will vote Diablos since I am the original person that make this interpretation....


Another interpretation could be Diablos in the Lamp, seen as how his attack is called Dark Messenger, and he sleeps in the lamp until you awaken him.

But I hardly think it is related to the game plot or anything. Just something to make the boss appear.....

[GunbladeMaster]

agreed

[rubah]

Why can't it be anyone else?

At least then it could be extra character development, something that most people will agree ff8 needs xD

[GunbladeMaster]

why do u say that?
well yeah they didnt really give us much other than they were all at the same orphange.
but still they went into a lot of insight on that topic so they actually do do a lot of characterS development

(however i still like ff7 characters mysterious past thing that square did)

[xX.Silver.Wings.Xx]

Selphie is the messenger girl.....!! ^_^

[GunbladeMaster]

they need to put more detail in the message for us to really conclude something plausible.

[G SpOtZ]

another interpretation is that griever is the messenger. but i can only back that up with relating these:
sleeps=griever is within squalls mind, as well as the rest of the party's minds, so in a way it is dormant until they fight ultimecia and she summons griever.
garden= there's two ways to approach this. griever is within squall, and squall is a SeeD for balamb garden, so griever is in balamb garden... or you can relate this to future esthars theory about ulti's castle being a version of a Garden like Balamb's and Galbaldias, so griever waits to be awaken in ulti's castle/garden.

[GunbladeMaster]

interesting...

[Christmas]

another interpretation is that griever is the messenger. but i can only back that up with relating these:
sleeps=griever is within squalls mind, as well as the rest of the party's minds, so in a way it is dormant until they fight ultimecia and she summons griever.
garden= there's two ways to approach this. griever is within squall, and squall is a SeeD for balamb garden, so griever is in balamb garden... or you can relate this to future esthars theory about ulti's castle being a version of a Garden like Balamb's and Galbaldias, so griever waits to be awaken in ulti's castle/garden.

So....what about the messenger part? The messenger part doesn't really relate...

Maybe you can relate the Griever as the messenger of strength as it is told in Squall's mind as the stronger GF.

[GunbladeMaster]

would do u mean "messenger of strength"?
Squall says that he thinks it is the strongest thing in the world but how it is a messenger i dont get.

[Christmas]

He symbolize might and power itself. It is how some people use a sword(example) to symbolize something and using it to relate a message.

[G SpOtZ]

well, in my opinion, griever had a lot to do with the story... he was represented by squalls things, like his sword and his ring and his necklace, but most importanty, the ring.
the ring first belonged to squall, and he liked the ring a lot... he let zell borrow it so he could give it to rinoa, temporarily.
i'm not sure if this is accurate... but when rinoa freed adel and was floating in space, and she was losing oxygen... you could see a chain necklace with a ring as the "pendant"... was that ring squalls griever ring?
if it was, it shows that griever was part of bringing squall and rinoa's love together, i guess. i don't think they showed the ring floating up in front of rinoa's face for no reason... i think she looked at the ring, and it gave her hope to live, so she fought for her life, knowing that squall would come...

conclusion= perhaps griever is actually the messenger of love for squall and rinoa??

and also... squall=lion, rinoa=angel....those are their themes, right? well look at griever... he's like a lion with wings.... hmmmm.. lion+angel?

haha now i'm just ranting. sorry about that.

[Christmas]

well, in my opinion, griever had a lot to do with the story... he was represented by squalls things, like his sword and his ring and his necklace, but most importanty, the ring.
the ring first belonged to squall, and he liked the ring a lot... he let zell borrow it so he could give it to rinoa, temporarily.
i'm not sure if this is accurate... but when rinoa freed adel and was floating in space, and she was losing oxygen... you could see a chain necklace with a ring as the "pendant"... was that ring squalls griever ring?
if it was, it shows that griever was part of bringing squall and rinoa's love together, i guess. i don't think they showed the ring floating up in front of rinoa's face for no reason... i think she looked at the ring, and it gave her hope to live, so she fought for her life, knowing that squall would come...

conclusion= perhaps griever is actually the messenger of love for squall and rinoa??

and also... squall=lion, rinoa=angel....those are their themes, right? well look at griever... he's like a lion with wings.... hmmmm.. lion+angel?

haha now i'm just ranting. sorry about that.

This is interesting.

Now will someone add Griever to the list instead of it being as "someone else"? :)

[GunbladeMaster]

cool theory G-Spotz

[G SpOtZ]

ty ^_^

[Kamrusepas]

simple answer:
LATIN
IS
COOL
:D

I've known that for years, that's why I've been trying to study it :D

Anyways, I've been working on a theory on the messenger and all that for my fic, but unfortunately I never write this stuff down, so I've forgotten most of the stuff already. It was a good theory too...

[GunbladeMaster]

show dont tell...

[enigma1234]

"Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator"

Yes, diablo's is also a great idea but what about Pupu? he/she/it traveled all over the world and you follow all he's/her/it's path, he travels alot and at the end of his/her/its journey he/she/it decides to stop(we can consider this as sleep,doze,nap) at the place where balamb garden used to be located and by the looks of it he/she/it wants to deliver us a message or tell us something but the problem is that we can't understand him/her/it...Timber Maniacs Magazine even made a story about an alien traveling all over the world and collecting stuffs(pyramid,cow,sheep,etc and the sightings)....

I think the so called "fairies" that sent squall and the group to the past(flashbacks) as laguna,kiros and ward is Pupu...hmmm I think he/she/it wants to tell squall that laguna is he's father... or was it ellone or maybe pupu who gave them the flashbacks about laguna's journey....


This is an add-on about my 1st theory on squall being the messenger do you remember the scene where squall was imprisoned in the desert prison? the scene is when the guard is tourturing and questioning Squall what's the meaning of SeeD and it's purpose and Squall says "flowers"...Garden have flowers right...

more to be unfold....


I'm sorry if this is off-topic but why is it that always Latin words are used on FFVIII?
like "Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator" thats Latin right? (In the garden sleeps a messenger) also the song "Liberi Fatali" (Children of Fate) and the paintings in ultimecia's castle why does it always have to be Latin and the word "children" is somehow always pronounced there and a new Final Fantasy was born...Advent of Children...

Now about the topic in ultimecia's castle I think everything there is related to the FF group not only rinoa...the painting there named "Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator" kinda looks like the garden in edea's orphanage and the falls like thingy painting it looks like it relates to the sea in the orphanage...the one you saw in the introduction movie...

I have a theory about the word "Vividarium et Intervigilium et Viator". I think it talks about squall...1st word "In the Garden" squall lives in the orphanage (theres a garden there) and also in the balamb garden he even went to galbadia garden and even travels thru trabia garden..."Sleeps" I think waiting for the right moment to deliver the message...and lastly "A Messenger" squall delivered to Edea the message that a Seed organization must be build in order to defeat ultimecia and to save the world...It all began in the garden and it also end in the garden..

I'm going to add more of this after I sleep in my beautiful bed of garden and deliver to you people the message tomorrow.

I'm still thinking that other people/thing might be the messenger...

[G SpOtZ]

i wonder where future esthar is? lol. i'd expect him to be all over this kind of thread..

[enigma1234]

Hmmm what about Ellone?, Ellone did go to the balamb garden and I think also in galbadia garden and Ellone did sent Squall and the others back to the past where Laguna,Kiros and Ward is on a journey and also Ellone watched Squall on his sleep when he was injured when training with Seifer (kinda looks like a fight to me) and also she watched Laguna when he sleeps many times and tells Raine what Laguna do when he's at sleep. It looks like Ellone wants to tell Squall the message that Laguna is Squall's father.

[Slade]

Diablos is the most obvious. I always thought it was him. I dont think it would be Selphie because she wasnt actually a messager she was only told to deliver one message. Just like when your in school and the teacher says, 'you, go get such and such from mr whatevers classroom'. This person wasnt the class messenger, they were picked randomly. Usually because they sat closest to the door. But anyway, as i said before, it points mostly to Diablos. If that p[ainting does actually mean something, then the other paintings must also. I always thought the Judgement painting was Alexander.

[enigma1234]

I always thought the Judgement painting was Alexander.

Yeah, Alexander's Holy Judgement attack.

[Christmas]

Here are some of the interpretations I made long time ago in an ancient threads. Feel free to take it as a references.



XERAMPELINAE(Red clothes)- Ultimecia's ancestor's portrait
VENUS(Love) - Love is what make the world bleed
VIGIL(Watchmen) - The guardian monsters of the castle
INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep) - The sleep magic
JUDICIUM (Judgment) - Alexandria Holy Judgement
IGNUS (Fire) - The Fire magic in the game
VIVIDARIUM (Garden) - The Garden of SeeD
INANDANTIA (Flood) - Leviathan Tidal wave attack
VIATOR (Messenger) - Diablo's dark messenger attack
INAUDAX (Cowardice) - Biggs and Wedge
XIPHIAS (Swordfish) - Gunblade
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Fisherman Horizons Bridge

Big Picture: In A Garden Sleeps A Messenger:

Diablos(Dark Messenger Attack) sleeps inside the magical lamp which is given in Balamb garden,

EDIT:


i wonder where future esthar is? lol. i'd expect him to be all over this kind of thread..


My computer run into problems recently.That&#180;s why I hadn&#180;t appeared.

It is still being fixed.I am replying from school.

[enigma1234]

XERAMPELINAE(Red clothes)- Ultimecia
VENUS(Love) - Ultimecia's lost love http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=71111
VIGIL(Watchmen) - Ultimecia watched the SeeD grew for a long time
INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep) - We can consider this as "waiting" for Ultimecia's revenge for all SeeD's
JUDICIUM (Judgment) - Ultimecia's Hell's Judgement magic/attack
IGNUS (Fire) - Her passion to eliminate all SeeD's for vengeance
VIVIDARIUM (Garden) - Garden
INANDANTIA (Flood) - Remember the white SeeD's corpses lying near the beach in the orphanage? (flood of corpses or the blood of the dead people flooded the beach)
VIATOR (Messenger) - Ultimecia
INAUDAX (Cowardice) - People are afraid of all sorceress
XIPHIAS (Swordfish) - We can consider this as what Rinoa said to Squall "If my soul became corrupt and evil, I want your sword to pierce my heart" or maybe Squall's sword that defeated Ultimecia or this Seifer as Ultimecia's knight...knight do have swords right?
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Ultimecia's three transformations

[Christmas]

XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Ultimecia's three transformations

One question....."Tree Lined Road" linked to Ultimecia's three Transformation....?

"Tree" intepret as "Three" so what about the "lined road"?

[enigma1234]

I'm still thinking for the last part....hihihi
its kinda hard because there are lots of definitions for the word lined (to put,or serve as, a lining in,a length,to measure or to mark lines)


Ok here it is
XERAMPELINAE(Red clothes)- Ultimecia
VENUS(Love) - Ultimecia's lost love http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=71111
VIGIL(Watchmen) - Ultimecia watched the SeeD grew for a long time
INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep) - We can consider this as "waiting" for Ultimecia's revenge for all SeeD's
JUDICIUM (Judgment) - Ultimecia's Hell's Judgement magic/attack
IGNUS (Fire) - Her passion to eliminate all SeeD's for vengeance
VIVIDARIUM (Garden) - Garden
INANDANTIA (Flood) - Remember the white SeeD's corpses lying near the beach in the orphanage? (flood of corpses or the blood of the dead people flooded the beach)
VIATOR (Messenger) - Ultimecia
INAUDAX (Cowardice) - People are afraid of all sorceress
XIPHIAS (Swordfish) - We can consider this as what Rinoa said to Squall "If my soul became corrupt and evil, I want your sword to pierce my heart" or maybe Squall's sword that defeated Ultimecia or this Seifer as Ultimecia's knight...knight do have swords right?
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Ultimecia's three transformations to the road of destruction or maybe Ultimecia controlling the three sorceress Edea,Adel and Rinoa for the road of extinction of all SeeD's

[GunbladeMaster]

i wonder where future esthar is? lol. i'd expect him to be all over this kind of thread..

he said he was having technical difficulties...

[boys from the dwarf]

when in doubt vote for the pupu.

[GunbladeMaster]

LOL
i misaread that and thought it said
"when in doubt go pupu"

but yeah seek the words of the wise dwarf

[Christmas]

http://rpgoblivion.gamingsource.net/Animated%20gifs/FF%208/other/pupu%205.gif

[GunbladeMaster]

Vote for Pedro

back to thread...

[Neco Arc]

i believe it is cid
"in the garden sleeps a messenger"

garden - well Garden
Sleeps - waits patiently for moment when he can annouce the truth
messenger - his message that SeeDs are created to destory the sorceresses of each era...

to cut this in short - Cid waits patiently for the right moment where he can tell Squall the true meaning of SeeD...

However i can also believe it to be Norg but i doubt that it is him.

[GunbladeMaster]

i dont think the creators put so much thougt into 1 silly little phrase

there are sooooooooooooo many people who we can describe as "in the garden sleeps a messenger" but we ll never know :cry: only square will

[Rinoa_Heartillly]

hmph...another over anylzing thread...T_T

[GunbladeMaster]

but still theyre fun to discuss :D

[enigma1234]

No more's making theories....
theories are nice to read some are interesting...

[*__*)]

If you never search, you will not discover...(but strange theories do got old),
I think that there is a clue in Liberi Fatali

Wake up from your dream, my children.
There is no cradle.
Wake up from your dreams, fated children.
The dream is not going.

Arise.
Discover the truth of the Garden.

Burn with truth
Scorch the world of evil.
Burn with truth
Set fire to the world of darkeness.

Goodbye, children,
From the days of destiny

The part highlighted in yellow seems important to me, and the very last line as well, but I don't really know what to make of it.

[Future Esthar]

My best guess is that the messenger is Ellone.
She is the one who takes people&#180;s counsciousness making people learn from the past.
I believe that Rinoa=Ellone so the garden could be the flower field and the phrase thus refers to the game intro (it was a dream wasn&#180;t it?).
Also,the picture looks a little like the orphanage which is near the flower field.

My interpretation on the pictures.

Vividarium-Looks like Esthar
Intervigilium-Looks like Norg sleeping.Symbolizes the sleeping concept seen through the game.

Viator-I think it can be seen a city and the top of a tower-Symbolizes the communications tower.

Iudicium-There is a crater on the picture.Symbolizes Lunatic Pandora and the lunar cry.

Inandantia-There were many physical catastrophes created artificially to help create Time Compression (WOTC) without people noticed it.It refers to floods.

Ignus-The fire cavern has a vulcan inside which will erupt on the far future melting the ice on Trabia which will therefore cause a flood.This will make the temperature grow.
This eruption is what we saw on space.
Probably created artificially to make Time Compression (WOTC) unnoticed.

Xerampelinae-Julia Heartilly (=Edea=Ulti)

Vigil-Laguna(Vascaroon),Kyros and Ward watching over Ulti&#180;s castle.

Venus-Love is not subjected to time and space.Also symbolizes the Love between Laguna and Julia being between these two pictures.

Swordfish-Balamb fish?Badamb fish?Squall&#180;s gunblade?No clue.

Inaudax-Hyne lefting the body of a sorceress.

Tree-line road-Horizon bridge.

[Christmas]

Intervigilium-Looks like Norg sleeping.Symbolizes the sleeping concept seen through the game.

You mean the "Liberi Fatali" posted one post earlier than yours or do you mean something else about sleeping concept?


Iudicium-There is a crater on the picture.Symbolizes Lunatic Pandora and the lunar cry.

Do you mean "JUDICIUM"? What do the Lunatic Pandora or the Lunar Cry had to do with "Judgement"...?


Swordfish-Balamb fish?Badamb fish?Squall´s gunblade?No clue.
Tree-line road-Horizon bridge.

You got this two interpretations same as mine. For the Swordfish, I interpret in as Squall's gunblade cause it is a blade attached to a gun pretty much like a "sword" attached to a fish.


Inaudax-Hyne lefting the body of a sorceress.

I think this interpretation is pretty good.....Do you mean Hyne cast away his body and flee as told in the legend or you mean the "X" of yours that go around possessing people....

The overall interpretations of your picture is something like....

In Esthar sleeps(or Norg sleep) a communication tower......


My best guess is that the messenger is Ellone.
She is the one who takes people´s counsciousness making people learn from the past.
I believe that Rinoa=Ellone so the garden could be the flower field and the phrase thus refers to the game intro (it was a dream wasn´t it?).
Also,the picture looks a little like the orphanage which is near the flower field.

I think the big picture must have some linkage with those of the small pictures.....but yours doesn't.....

[*__*)]

EDIT: Finaly, we get to hear from Future Esthar! Don't be a stranger, ok?

Those interpitation are legitimate. But I wonder, is there anything that would connect all of them together?

Ellone is the messenger? *sigh* I honestly don't know who the messenger could be.

WAIT!! it just hit me!! ULTIMECIA is the messenger. Just listen.

Let's say that Ultimecia was a SeeD in her time. I can't go any further with this, someone els will have to think about it because I can not.
...............................................................................................

There are only so many characters in the game, ONE of them HAS to be it.


Angelo, Edea, Laguna, Quistis, Rinoa, Seifer, Selphie, Squall,
Zell, Ward, Ultimecia, NORG, Nida, Xu, Dr. Odine, Adel,
Queen of Cards, Raijin, Fujin, Dr. Kadowaki, Biggs, Wedge,
Ma Dincht, Ellone, Cid, Brothers, Cafeteria Lady's Son, Chocoboy,
Martine, Flo, Raine, Julia, Irvine, Jack, Moomba, Mr. Monkey,
Mean Guy, Zone, Pupu, A Shumi, Vinzer Deling, Mayor Dobe, General Caraway


Bahamut Carbuncle Diablos Alexander Eden Gilgamesh Ifrit Leviathan Minotaur Quezacotl Sacred Siren Sheva Griever Doomtrain Cerberus Odin Pheonix Chocobo Pandemona Toneberry

did I get them all? I'm sure there might be a few people who you only meet once, but we can safely assume that they aren't it.
***********************************************

We could start ruling out who it could NOT be.
We know that it isn't: Mean Guy, Cafeteria Lady's Son, Mr. Monkey, but who els, I'm stumped here. Why couldn't it be those three, I don't know, it's just a hunch.

[Christmas]

Wait....did you see the result of the poll....it seems like people believed Diablo is the messenger.....

[Future Esthar]

The clock is the linkage between the pictures.
Meaning of the clock-The world of FF8 is a time compressed world in which the events happens on continents going around FH,the clock central gauge,with two of it&#180;s pointers,the two sides of the horizon bridge that can be walked over like the ones in the clock tower.

The messenger can also be the guy who had the strange dreams on Trabia Garden.

I don&#180;t think there is link between the interpretations of the pictures and the interpretation of the big picture.

[*__*)]

I see what you're saying. It was smart of Square to make the ffVIII world one big clock.

I completely forgot about the guy at Trabia Garden. Does anyone remember the details of his dreams?

This mystery may never be solved, only Square can tell us, and they only left things that can be thought of as clues in the game somewhat.

I wish someone who worked on the game would issue a book or something with all the answeres that we ask, it's torture to just make us ponder.

Regardless of who or what it refers to, an even bigger question may be why Ultimecia made the puzzle in the first place. What is she saying?

[GunbladeMaster]

shes is saying:

"Cait Sith, right a book about all the small details in ff8 and make millions! :grumble: then ill snatch it from you :shifty:

EDIT: Im not being sarcastic BTW

[Future Esthar]

The dreams were about the fight with the Tomberry King.
Caith sith did I explained to you already my WOTC theory?
If not,tell me and I will send you a PM.

GunbladeMaster-I have yet to reply to your PM.Don&#180;t give up,I will reply when I feel the will to.

[Jessweeee♪]

i never thought of the Rinoa thing, it's either that or diablos

[GunbladeMaster]

The dreams were about the fight with the Tomberry King.
Caith sith did I explained to you already my WOTC theory?
If not,tell me and I will send you a PM.

GunbladeMaster-I have yet to reply to your PM.Don´t give up,I will reply when I feel the will to.

i dont even remember what i said anyways :p
but ok

[Christmas]

I don´t think there is link between the interpretations of the pictures and the interpretation of the big picture.

You use the words/interpretations in the small pictures to combine and FIT into the words/interpretations of the big picture. This is the link.

[*__*)]

Yeah, maybe your right and why is it that the iron giant(red giant) in Ultimecia's Castle is afraid of diablos did they fought before? and when you use diablos on him the damage would be 9999....and he says something...


I managed to find this, but he might say more:
17798

So yeah, you're right, they do seem to know one another a little bit.

EDIT: OK, I've fixed it, I think...

[GunbladeMaster]

attach it as an attachment
then itll work

[*__*)]

Can't you see it GBM? I can... anyone els have this problem?
some bozo in administration probably disabled me from posting pics with the insert image button.
Anyways, they were probably mortal enemies at some point in time.

[GunbladeMaster]

i see cas i follwed the link in properties

[LordHavoc]

l know this is old but there is something amiss, l did not read all of this topic but :

the portrait of messenger with the title " In The Garden Sleeps A Messenger" reffers to both :
Sleeping SeeDs awaiting their final battle with the "Evil" sorceress and
Sorceress Edea being controlled by Ultimecia, this refference is of Edea using the SeeD Garden and being unable to do anything like a person sleeping deeply.

the rest of the refferences seems to be correct, should you want the full info you should contact directly with Sqare - Enix. they will answer most of your questions :]