ff7 riddles

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

is it safer sephi's limit break thing that destroys all the planets? (i forget the name)

High over the earth, --> flies through the universe first
The paradox sleeps, --> can happen multiple times
North of rebirth,
And south of the deeps.

Bows to the marksman, --> he rises into the air before using it
Though it masters the first. --> starts on the floor
Bequeaths the best,
In exchange for the worst. --> not sure, i think he takes a pumelling before he uses it maybe

When you find it again,
Need it you'll not,
After the ultimate price,
A negligible cost. --> not sure. maybe because if he uses it twice it's likely to be unnecessary as the first one will have nearly wiped u out (if u haven't levelled)

[Eagleheart]

Nope.

[Dragon Mage]

has someone said Ultimate Weapon yet? the paradox would seem like Shadow Flare, since it's a flare (indicating light) of shadow (darkness). It 'sleeps' before you run into it, activating it. It rises from the earth (the northern crater) into the air before beginning to charge an attack. It takes a lot of damage before it uses Shadow Flare.

So my guess wil be Shadow Flare.

[Eagleheart]

Nope. Here are some hints.

It's not any of the enemies encountered in the game, nor does it have anything to do with any of them.

The answer is something that fits all the lines of the riddle; every line has a specific relevance to the answer.

Phoenix Ash has the right idea with his reasoning of the first stanza.

The last stanza should perhaps be taken a bit more literally than the others.

[Dragon Mage]

High over the earth, (Tall Building)
The paradox sleeps, (This actually fits more than usual, as its one of the most paradoxical things in the game)
North of rebirth, (I think it is actually North of Mideel)
And south of the deeps. (Its also now South of the main oceans)

So it has to do with a tall building? Fort Condor?


When you find it again,
Need it you'll not,
After the ultimate price,
A negligible cost.

But this makes me think of North Corel, since you get the Ultima materia after you stop the train from wiping out the town. But it's all written in the paradox of what happens....so we're looking for a certain building and something within the building? Ultima materia anywhere close? Fort Condor and the huge materia?

[Eagleheart]

A tall building, yes. Fort Condor, no.

And nothing to do with North Corel.

[Dragon Mage]

Shinra building?

[Eagleheart]

Nope.

[Dragon Mage]

grrrrrrrr. ok, that was an obivious one though. So, more like junon, or the ancient forest?

scratch that, the Golden Saucer? It's pretty high....

Please do not post more than once in a row. Use the edit/delete button if you wish to add to your post. ~ Leeza

[Eagleheart]

The repetitive questions about what one of the lines refers to are what I try to avoid when running a riddle. I think it's rather contrary to the spirit of things. As I understand it, it's my prerogative not to answer. I'd prefer to only respond to guesses that take the whole riddle into account, because all the information is there, as needed, and it all fits together. The answer that takes every line into account will be the one with the best chance of being right. I will reiterate that this riddle does refer to something very specific. Not something as obscure as in the riddle that preceded it, but something specific nonetheless.

[Dragon Mage]

I belive it's called "narrowing the field". We've only got an entire world to guess from. After the riddle about carpet, I'm pretty darn sure that everything is possible. We need a starting point to anchor the riddle to one thing/place/person/whatever. For example, it is neccessary to establish where the riddle is reffering to. From there, we can make more accurate guesses that fit the rest of the riddle. Unless this is accomplished, we're all just making random stabs in the dark, and this riddle will get nowhere.

What we have so far established, is that the first stanza refers to a tall building. Fine. We've excluded all monsters, enemy skills, and materia as part of the answer. That still leaves much to guess from.

Now, I don't mean to insult, and I can see where you are coming from. But the fact is many things can seemingly apply to the entire riddle and be completely wrong. Unless we narrow down the options, there's only going to be random guesses, until someone gets lucky and gets the answer. With that in mind, you are bound to get repetitive questions. Now, shall we move on? Does anyone else have a guess or idea they may want to share?

[Eagleheart]

Fair enough, I suppose.

[Spinz33]

The last stanza should perhaps be taken a bit more literally than the others.

based on this i would guess Villa Cloud

[Sephitachi7]

Its seems that Cosmo Canyon seems to fit here. (Ultimate price maybe because Seto and Bugehagen die here)

[musenji]

I belive it's called "narrowing the field". We've only got an entire world to guess from. After the riddle about carpet, I'm pretty darn sure that everything is possible. We need a starting point to anchor the riddle to one thing/place/person/whatever. For example, it is neccessary to establish where the riddle is reffering to. From there, we can make more accurate guesses that fit the rest of the riddle. Unless this is accomplished, we're all just making random stabs in the dark, and this riddle will get nowhere.

While I definitely agree with the need to narrow things down, I also think there's a difference between riddling and playing 20 questions. Twenty Questions is about narrowing down via yes/no questions (is it x, is it located in y), whereas riddling is more about fitting all the pieces together. It's true, sometimes riddles are excessively vague in their clues...uh, anyway, I'll get on with it. First though, I'll repost cause there wasn't a repost yet.

High over the earth,
The paradox sleeps,
North of rebirth,
And south of the deeps.

Bows to the marksman,
Though it masters the first.
Bequeaths the best,
In exchange for the worst.

When you find it again,
Need it you'll not,
After the ultimate price,
A negligible cost.

The first two lines of the last stanza imply that the answer is some sort of object/skill you can make use of, and further, that it's no longer needed (or even useful?) the second time you find it.

"South of the deeps" implies a location with respect to a large body of water, right? We can probably eliminate Costa del Sol, then (cause that's west of "deeps"), and Junon (cause it's east of "deeps"), and Cosmo Canyon (north or northeast). Of course it doesn't say how FAR south of the deeps..

Uhh, so yeah. I don't have a guess, but wanted to throw in my thoughts.

[TheSpoonyBard]

My initial thought is the Curse Ring. Seems to fit, too.

[Eagleheart]

Yeah, it does, all but the second stanza. Musenji's reasoned through the meanings of the first and last stanza, but it's the second that's key to solving exactly what it is.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

is it enemy skill?

the last place u find it (chocobo sages house) is north of pretty much everything and its south fo a vast ocean if u follow the map all the way round.

"bequeaths the best in exchange for the worst" because you have to endure and survive the more powerful attacks in order to use them

when u find it the last time its not much use as u hav already got a vast arsenal of awesome attacks.

[Hazzard]

Its seems that Cosmo Canyon seems to fit here. (Ultimate price maybe because Seto and Bugehagen die here)

Bugenhagen doesn't die, he falls ill.

[Eagleheart]

Nope, not Cosmo Canyon, it's not a location.

And not Enemy Skill, it's not materia of any kind.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

bugenhagen does die, when he gives red limited moon, boohoo

[Hazzard]

He doesn't die, and you ain't got no proof.

[Dragon Mage]

Whatever. Musenji, I know what you mean and I agree. But this is a vague riddle, and, as seen in the posts above, is exactly what I'm talking about. Many things fit. None are correct. And we have nothing to help us out. It was either play 20 questions or ask outright for a hint.

And yes, Hazzard, he does die.

[Hazzard]

So where's the proof, man?

Erm, is it an enemy skill

[Dragon Mage]

have you seriously played the game? If you've played the game, then you know, he died. Go back and play it again if you really want to. Your proof it there. And he already said, it's not Enemy Skill nor any other kind of materia.

[Hazzard]

have you seriously played the game? If you've played the game, then you know, he died. Go back and play it again if you really want to. Your proof it there. And he already said, it's not Enemy Skill nor any other kind of materia.

It was a joke, cool it.

So is an obtainable object?

[Dragon Mage]

XD sorry, I didn't mea to come off as angry. I was trying to be funny. O_o

And you'd be better off not asking questions like that. Everyone will accuse you of not trying to riddle-figure, and instead just playing 20 questions. (I'm being bitter here.)

[Eagleheart]

Yes, it is an obtainable item.


And you'd be better off not asking questions like that. Everyone will accuse you of not trying to riddle-figure, and instead just playing 20 questions. (I'm being bitter here.)To clarify, since you insist on clinging to the issue, I don't mean to make it seem like I object to general questions about the riddle, but I do have a problem with specific, repetitive questions about specific stanzas. I'll happily answer something like "is it an obtainable item", because, not only is it a general question about the nature of the answer, it's information that can be gleaned from the actual riddle.

However, if people are going to ask me outright "does this stanza refer to _______?" then I don't feel inclined to answer, because I can repeat "no" dozens of times and no one will make any real headway, except to cross off one location on a list of dozens. Like you said, there's a whole world out there. That's what makes a riddle challenging. What differentiates it from 20 questions that you have an awful lot more information to work from, initially, so asking questions with such specificity shouldn't be necessary. If people want to narrow the field, questions like "Is it a location on the world map?" or "is it a place in a town?" are more suitable, or at the very least, far more efficient for narrowing the field.

Further, musenji's reasoning proves that this isn't nearly as vague a riddle as you make it out to be. The factors for determining the location are clearly given. I've stated that Phoenix Ash was following the right line of reasoning, regarding the first stanza, I'll even be more specific and say that his ideas regarding the last line of the first stanza were on the right track. Musenji has outlined logic regarding the line "south of the deeps", which eliminates a whole bunch of locations. And again, his reasoning regarding the meaning of the third stanza makes a lot of sense. It's an item. An obtainable item. An obtainable item that can obtained more than once, even. An obtainable item that, eventually, won't be useful any more. All that, from one remarkably vague little stanza.

[musenji]

In fairness, I must note that I'd already known the answer for a while, when I made my post.

I do think the facts I explained about the answer could be pretty easily derived from those lines. Though that's probably subjective.

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, I'll have another go, but I'm pretty sure this is way off...

Parasol:

High over the earth, (Gold Saucer, a tall building)
The paradox sleeps, (Not really sure why it would be a paradox, but its at least odd)
North of rebirth, (Apart from being vaguely North of Mideel, I don't know)
And south of the deeps. (Its South of some oceans... so unless these lines just meant 'middle of the map' I'm wrong... I just can't think of anything tall around Mideel)

Bows to the marksman, (You win it in a shooting game)
Though it masters the first. (There's a guy outside who doesn't get the full high score... I think)
Bequeaths the best, (Its Aeris' ultimate weapon)
In exchange for the worst. (You get it so early because she dies)

When you find it again, (You can come back to the Gold Saucer on disk two, though I'm not certain its actually available)
Need it you'll not, (Aeris is dead by this point)
After the ultimate price, (Aeris' death)
A negligible cost. (Pass)

Like I said, I think I'm wrong, but just for the sake of throwing out a guess...

[Eagleheart]

Phoenix Ash! <3 you, dude. You totally have the right ideas here, and you're way closer than you think. You've bang on taken the basic meanings of the third stanza, but you need to adjust things a bit, based on other information. The first stanza is where you need the most help.

Here's a bit more information
- Rebirth doesn't refer to Mideel.

[Dragon Mage]

I am not 'clinging' to the issue. I was giving another person fair warning before his question was outright refused. You may not have known it, but I found that rather offensive, and you've done nothing to make it better, Eagleheart.
Like I said numerous times, I know what you mean and I understand and agree with you. I know, it can get annoying. If people are just randomly guessing, as you saw they were, then offer if they would like a hint. Now, what you were suggesting as appropriate questions to ask to narrow the field, I understand. That's one way to do it. The other way is to nail down one part, at least one line, then work from there. But asking broad, generalized questions will only get one so far, before they can no longer aid one in solving the riddle.
Ex: "It's an item" ok. Materia? No. Fine. That still leaves a lot of items open, and you can no longer make generalized guess, for now it is no longer so open. Now, all that's left is to try to apply the riddle to the myriad items out there. No asking more questions, or else that's 20 questions, again.

Have I made myself a little more clear here?

[Eagleheart]

The slightest bit.

[Dragon Mage]

please, ask away and i'll try to claify for you.

[PhoenixAsh]

I think Eagleheart was suggesting that perhaps you were, if only slightly, clinging to the issue...

Seriously... can other people start guessing again... I know this has taken a while, but I suspect its probably a good riddle once we know the answer. I'm still working on it, just nothings striking me.

I would say that as far as tall buildings and second chances go in the middle of the map, it could only really be an item in the Gold Saucer or the Shinra Building. The game in the vents is something that is easier second time around... though its hardly the ultimate price... Anyway just some thoughts to see if anyone else can get it.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

maybe cid's weapon that you can get from the shooting game at gold saucer. the games costs like 10GP (negligable cost) but to get cid's waepon from it aerith has to die first (ultimate price).

sure wish i could remember the name of said wepaon :D

[Eagleheart]

I would say that as far as tall buildings and second chances go in the middle of the map, it could only really be an item in the Gold Saucer or the Shinra Building. The game in the vents is something that is easier second time around... though its hardly the ultimate price... Anyway just some thoughts to see if anyone else can get it.
Ahh, now, here I'll steer you guys away from that line of thinking. "High over the earth" is relative. Compared to other tall things in this game, it's not really far at all.

No one's got it yet, but firmly on the right track!

[BG-57]

maybe cid's weapon that you can get from the shooting game at gold saucer. the games costs like 10GP (negligable cost) but to get cid's waepon from it aerith has to die first (ultimate price).

sure wish i could remember the name of said wepaon :D

Flayer.


My next guess is Princess Guard.

[Eagleheart]

Nope

[BG-57]

Hmm...Great Gospel? You can keep collecting them long after they serve any useful purpose in exchange for Mythril.

[abrojtm]

Bequeaths the best / In exchange for the worst could refer to the choosing of the small box for the big prize if it's Great Gospel.

[Eagleheart]

Nope, not Great Gospel. Not a limit break.

[Spinz33]

when will we find out the answer are we goin to wait til someone gets it or until everyone gives?

[Enjolras]

We're going to wait til someone gets it.
Anyway, most people don't care if one persons given up, if you have, just stop posting, dont write things like "I give up".

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

i think everyone HAS given up, seeing as how its bee nearly a week since the ast post. fancy writing another one eagle?

[Eagleheart]

Everyone's given up, then? Is there any particular way I can confirm that?

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

y dont we wait a while. if no one comes in and says "no! i haven't given up" in say . . . 4 days, we'll say its over

[BG-57]

It's not:

A Location (Cosmo Canyon, North Crater, Shinra Building, Cloud's Villa, Mideel, Temple of the Ancients)
An Enemy Skill (Shadow Flare)
A Monster (Ultima Weapon)
A Limit Break (Great Gospel)
Materia (Black Materia)
Pheonix
Sephiroth
Lucrecia
Meteor
Supernova
Princess Guard
Flayer
Parasol

It's some kind of obtainable item and the last stanza refers to Aeris' sacrifice. That leads me to assume it's Aeris-related, although it just may mean it only is available after Aeris' demise.

Is it the copy of Sepiroth's sword you can get as a consolation prize in the shooting game?

[Eagleheart]

It's some kind of obtainable item and the last stanza refers to Aeris' sacrifice. That leads me to assume it's Aeris-related, although it just may mean it only is available after Aeris' demise.
The last stanza refers to the fact that you can get it more than once, but the second time you can get it is only after Aeris dies.

And, no, it's not.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

maybe ribbon? the first time u get it is in temple of ancients when she is alive and the 2nd time is on Gaia's cliff when she isn't.

[musenji]

http://www.ffshrine.org/ff7/ff7worldmap.jpg

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, I really can't think of anything that fits, but the first stanza sounds like its talking about the rocket in Rocket Town... Dunno if thats correct, or helpful...

[Dragon Mage]

I rest my case.

[Eagleheart]

Okay, I really can't think of anything that fits, but the first stanza sounds like its talking about the rocket in Rocket Town... Dunno if thats correct, or helpful...Nope.


I rest my case.In my opinion, you never had a case. People have gleaned, so far, from this vague, awful riddle that you seem to have neither the patience nor the capacity to apply yourself to solving, that:

High over the earth,
The paradox sleeps,
North of rebirth,
And south of the deeps.

It's located in a tall building.
Buildings it is not located in: The Gold Saucer, the Shinra Tower, the Rocket.
Hint: Think not QUITE as tall. As I said, height is relative.

I confirmed way back when Phoenix Ash posted his first guess, that he was following the right line of thinking when he suggested Mideel or Fort Condor. I've also said, that rebirth does not refer to Mideel. Consequently, Mideel would not be the logical choice, because pretty much every location the game is north of Mideel, and aside from that, Cloud's "rebirth" through the lifestream is more metaphysical than metaphorical.

Musenji outlines some brilliant logic in his post, pointing out which locations are not feasible, because of their position respective to various oceans. Also, he has been kind enough to post a link to a map.

Bows to the marksman,
Though it masters the first.
Bequeaths the best,
In exchange for the worst.

This is the stanza that, as I've said, is at the heart of solving the riddle. This stanza, truth be told, could be a standalone riddle, if I wanted to be quite as vague as that. I stated, at the beginning of this whole thing, that this was a riddle about something specific. Not as obscure as the ones before it (the warning sign before the reactors, the vending machines in the Shinra building), but still, something specific. Something that might possibly require a little research to hit upon the exact meaning of.

When you find it again,
Need it you'll not,
After the ultimate price,
A negligible cost.

It is an obtainable object, something that will be in your inventory, that can be obtained at two points in the game, the second time being after Aeris' death. The fact that it isn't needed at that second point implies that it's something which outlives its usefulness.

It's not materia of any sort. It's not a limit break.


Now. I was of the impression, when I began posting in this thread, that clever riddles requiring logic, creativity, and knowledge of FFVII that goes beyond "Sephiroth!" "Black Materia!" "Meteor!", were going to be appreciated.

I will concede that perhaps I haven't been as free with my hints as I might have been, but that's because I have invested a small amount of faith in the dedication of this community and its 119 page riddle thread, with people who have written and solved some very admirable riddles. I wanted to present a riddle that would be a welcome challenge, worthy of being solved by someone with the ability to sit down and think it through, and put some genuine effort into it. Good riddles are not easy riddles. Good riddles make people think.

Dragon Mage, if the fact that this riddle has proven to be a challenge offends you so very badly, I know it would be a great relief to me personally if you just sat and waited quietly until someone gets the answer, or until everyone decides to give up. I've addressed your concerns, stated my case quite clearly, and sincerely didn't believe there was any need for more of your commentary. At this point, I'll view any further remarks you have on the subject as inconsequential, because I have nothing more to add in response.

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, I'm gonna need some help here now... After spending a lot of time researching prizes won at Fort Condor (to come up with the answer 'Magic Comb'), I realized it was North of Mideel which is wrong, and not South of any deeps.

So... looking at the map, things which are north of some kind of rebirth and south of deeps are...

Rocket Town (Nibelheim for rebirth - fine, it is on a northern coast - fine), unfortunately the rocket is incorrect.

Cosmo Canyon (Ancient forest for rebirth - maybe, its kind of south of some water - tenuous), I doubt this is it.

North Corel/Mount Corel (North of Gold Saucer - maybe, south of water - yes), unfortunately I can't think of anything tall apart from something in the mountains themselves, or the reactor. This leaves the Wizard Staff as the answer, as I think it is only obtainable here on disc one, and useless after Aeris dies but can be got in Junon on disc two. Several other aspects fit too, but I was under the impression that the answer wasn't Aeris related, and it is quite obscure.

Gold Saucer - been through, pretty sure here is ruled out.

Kalm Town - (North of Midgar - Cloud's 'rebirth' as Zack, South of water), honestly can't think of anything...

Apart from half-hearted guesses at magic comb and wizard staff I'm out again... partly as I have other things to get on with for now. Maybe something I've said can be of use?

[Eagleheart]

Nothing to do with the Gold Saucer. When I say North of Rebirth, I'm referring to a location north of Fort Condor.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

is it mythril? its found in the cave with the sleeping guy (north of fort condor) and is used to give aerith great gospel ('best') after taking on a fair bit of damage to fill her limit. not much use after aerith is dead as she can't then use it

[Eagleheart]

Nope. Nothing to do with Aeris, either.

[NGU]

This is so wrong
but is it Death Penalty?

[BG-57]

I doubt it; it has to be something you can get more than once.

I'm guessing Rocket Punch.

You can get in a treasure chest in the Temple of the Ancients, but you can eventually buy it in Junon. It has no slots, so it only is useful in the subquest where Yuffie steals your materia.

[Eagleheart]

No, and no, but you're both on the right track!

[BG-57]

Silver Rifle then?

Also available in the Temple of Ancients as a Treasure and only later is it store-bought in Junon.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

as is nail bat, work glove, trident, yada yada yada

[Eagleheart]

Silver Rifle then?

Also available in the Temple of Ancients as a Treasure and only later is it store-bought in Junon.
Getting sooooooooo close.

[Dragon Mage]

LMAO!!! Dude, lighten up. I did wait around. And I waited. and waited and waited. And waited some more. :hahaha:

Then guess what happened!!!!

People began to give up!!! :eek: would you believe it!!!!!

Phoenix Ash said is there a tall building. You said yes. You DID NOT say it was Mideel or Fort Condor.

I never said this was an 'awful' riddle. Those are your words. Interesting. In fact, I do believe I said that this was a good riddle. People are taking a long time to answer it; sign of a very good riddle. What I did say, is that your answers are rather vague. And you refusing to answer some questions only compounds the riddle's difficulty.

I never said that people coudn't find anything out about the riddle. I said that when they try to pin down one thing specifically, you bashed them for playing 20 questions.

And I haven't been trying to solve the riddle. Not ever since you spazzed on me; I just care about it. And, it seems to me, that I'm not the only one that is getting no where with this riddle.

Get off your high horse. Just because you made the riddle doesn't mean we have to bow down to you. How the hell do you get off refusing to answer a question to a riddle you made? How do you justify that? That's how riddles are solved! People ask questions, you answer them. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, then what the heck are you doing here?

[Timster]

this thread has sooooo collapsed... this used to be interesting but everyone has completely slaughtered the entire thread... my best advice is that we just drop everything and start a completely new riddle...

[PhoenixAsh]

Why? People are still guessing. I admit this riddle has went on a while, and the answer seems a little obscure for my taste, but by no means more than previous riddles. Aside from Dragon Mage not dropping old arguments and a lack of thorough analysis to go with people's answers, everything seems fine. It really would speed things up if people start trying to break the riddle down in their posts a bit more...

[BG-57]

Why aren't people guessing in addition to arguing?


as is nail bat, work glove, trident, yada yada yada

Yes, but the 'bows to marksman' line makes me think of a firearm like Vincent's or Barrett's.

I'm going with Peacemaker. I don't remember if it can be acquired later, but that would fit the 'paradox' and 'high' parts since it has an ironic name and is found in a tower overlooking Kalm.

[Dragon Mage]

Hey, I'm not spurring an argument here. The person who made this riddle isn't helping very much in our endeavors to solve it. I'm the only one pointing this out to him. That way, we might solve this riddle.

[Eagleheart]

I'm going with Peacemaker. I don't remember if it can be acquired later, but that would fit the 'paradox' and 'high' parts since it has an ironic name and is found in a tower overlooking Kalm.

Yes! Right on. Here's the logic for all the lines.

High over the earth, (As BG-57 said, it's found in Kalm's Tower)
The paradox sleeps, (BG got it again, this is a reference to the ironic name of the weapon)
North of rebirth, (Kalm is almost directly north of Fort Condor)
And south of the deeps. (And directly south of a large patch of ocean.)

Bows to the marksman, (This stanza, while being key to the specifics, is also probably the most obscure. The marksman refers to the Sniper CR, the next best weapon after the Peacemaker. It's also meant to clue people in to the fact that the riddle has something to do with Vincent)
Though it masters the first. (Peacemaker is the weapon you get after Quicksilver, Vincent's initial equipment)
Bequeaths the best, (Highest growth)
In exchange for the worst. (Fewest materia slots)

When you find it again, (This alludes to the fact that it's an item that can be obtained more than once)
Need it you'll not, (This is sort of supposed to lead up to the fact that it won't be useful, because you'll have gotten things that are better than it)
After the ultimate price, (Aeris' death)
A negligible cost. (It's something that can be purchased)


Congratulations, and my sincerest thanks, BG ^___^ I'm very glad that you got it.

[BG-57]

Hey, I'm not spurring an argument here. The person who made this riddle isn't helping very much in our endeavors to solve it. I'm the only one pointing this out to him. That way, we might solve this riddle.

Actually I wasn't asking why people were arguing. I was just curious why so many of the posts didn't contain any guesses.


Congratulations, and my sincerest thanks, BG ^___^ I'm very glad that you got it.

Yay. :D

A true contradiction
For meelee or range?
And does it employ
Money, mass, or impact?

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

rocket punch?

A true contradiction
For meelee or range? --> a rocket is a long range missile or craft, wheras wo punch someone u need to be pretty close, unless ur stretch arm-strong
And does it employ
Money, mass, or impact? --> not too sure on this, maybe cos a rocket costs a whole lot of money and a pucnh is an impact? i dunno!

[BG-57]

Not Rocket Punch.

[Comet]

Is it Coin?

A true contradiction
For meelee or range? - We don't know if it is used close up or from a distance
And does it employ
Money, mass, or impact? - You lose money, but the more mass of money there is, the harder the impact.

[Hazzard]

Comet may be on to something.

[NGU]

Think about the first line: a true contradiction this suggests that something about the answer contradicts itself. So one must one must think of an item perosn whatever that you can see get whatever that contradicts itself or something related to it. The Thrid line is a question for the last. Which does it use? But yes coin seems a logical choice. b

[BG-57]

Not Coin.

[NGU]

A true contradiction- I think it refers to the next line saying that the name maybe that of a range weapon or item but the item itself is melee or vice versa
For melee or range- "
and does it employ - Setting up for the next line asking which of the three does it use. It also hints that the iem answer what ever it is makes unsure how it exacltly hits.
mass money or impact. - "

For the reasoning i have 4 ideas is it;
1.Deathblow?
2.Slash All?
3.Mime?
4. Command materia in genral?

[Enjolras]

With similar reasoning to devils Rocket Punch guess, I'm gonna say Cannonball. It's probably wrong though.

[BG-57]

For the reasoning i have 4 ideas is it;
1.Deathblow?
2.Slash All?
3.Mime?
4. Command materia in genral?

It's none of the above. And from now on, please try to keep to one guess at a time.


With similar reasoning to devils Rocket Punch guess, I'm gonna say Cannonball. It's probably wrong though.

It is wrong, although you're using the right approach for the first two lines.

[NGU]

Its the last line thats tricky. Although its probably important the word money throws you off.

[BG-57]

As you can see, the first two lines taken alone could refer to many different things. It's the last two lines that (hopefully) narrows it down to one thing.

Would you like a hint?

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

go for it, preferably along the lines of wot wer looking for (unless that'll make it TOO obvious ofc) u know like item, weapon, place, etc

[BG-57]

Money is not referring to Gil.

[Eagleheart]

Hmm...this is something of a shot in the dark, but...

Is it one of the attacks of that squirrel/groundhog enemy from around Icicle Area (and in the battle arena, I think)? I can't recall the name of the enemy or the attack, but I remember them both quite clearly. The enemy has a very puffy tail and it looks like it's buried n the ground. The reason I though of it is because it has an attack that shoots gold coins at your party, which could be the money referred to in the riddle, and could be a ranged or melee attack. The name of the attack is Gold something or other, though I'm at a loss for what the enemy is.

To formalize: "Gold Mountain" attack of the enemy Trickplay

[BG-57]

Not Trickplay.

[DeStyle]

I think right arm. My keyboard is broken.

EDIT: Ah my keyboard is working again so I'm gonna post my riddance anyhoo.

A true contradiction
For meelee or range? Right arm does damage on enemies, from a distance, but it's an arm. Arm
would suggest it being a melee weapon but it's actually range, our contradiction.
And does it employ
Money, mass, or impact? Right arm can only be bought at the golden saucer (or stolen) so
while you're using it you're (without the stealing) indirectly using money.

It kinda fitted except for the mass and impact part :(.

[BG-57]

It's not Right Arm.

[NGU]

The monster that throws cards at you for its attack near gold saucer area or corel area (that part of the continent) One of the cards makes money spill out of you that monster. Sorry that i cant remember its name :(

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

the attack is diamond, but i cant remember the name of the enemy either :D

[NGU]

yeah i reckon it fits

[BG-57]

It's not Joker.

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, I've looked into enemy skills, weapons, and armour looking for something with a contradictory name, or that relates to money. I found nothing. The only thing I can find (without trawling through endless lists of enemies) is:

Hammer Blaster: an enemy in the Shinra HQ that uses the attack 'pound'. Now whilst not strictly a contradiction, hammers and blasters are different items and motions, and whilst a hammer is a melee weapon, a blaster is a range weapon. 'Pound' is a type of currency, a unit of weight (mass), and also the act of 'pounding' which involves impact. Thus the attack from its name could feasibly utilise money, mass or impact.

[BG-57]

You got it! Perfect reasoning as well. :)

[NGU]

Nice work!

[PhoenixAsh]

Thanks! Nice riddle, I usually don't like obscurity, but the 'pound' bit was really quite clever :)

Okay, I've tried to make this one hard... so it'll probably get solved pretty damn quickly :)


“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in,
Stop a giant mastered from within.

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change?

When father’s daughter takes the crown,
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown.

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,
Use surer feet or land deformed.

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

[demondude]

cait sith or reeve i dunno

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

not really got a guess here jus gonna share ideas on wot i think each line COULD mean

Deserved for breathing life back in,
Stop a giant mastered from within. --> maybe this refers to cait sith being controlled with a remote from within shinra. and the "life back in" might be when u get Cait sith no.2

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, --> beginning of life might be talking about lifestream
Life’s story told in a place to mend. --> maybe temple of the ancients the ancients history told on the wall of the room and the temple needs "mending" after it becomes the black materia (needs rebuilding tbh :D)

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change? --> spaceship watchers oviously makes me think of the people in rocket town, not sure on the strange dance. or the "watchers" could be everybody when the rocket is launched

When father’s daughter takes the crown,
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. i think this might refer to yuffie and godo, the "overlooking" being the tower in wutai

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,
Use surer feet or land deformed. --> maybe deformed refers to vincents limits, and the storm could be the thunder in vincents "insert new disc" picture

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind. --> maybe the alpha to omega refers to shinra soldiers. and the unwind is clouds memory?
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance? --> not sure on this

actually i'm gonna guess thats the answer is the life stories of the main chars (even tho i havent mentioned them all :D)

btw can i ask, are the last for lines meant to be on paragraph or 2 paragraphs with 2 lines in each, like the rest of the riddle?

[PhoenixAsh]

The last four lines are indeed meant to be one paragraph. You have two pieces of reasoning partly correct so far, but I'm not gonna say which just yet if thats okay. I will start to soon so that people can start working on it, but I'll wait for a few more responses first.

I'm gonna say now that if anyone guesses the correct answer without reasoning then I'm not gonna tell them (It isn't Cait Sith or Reeve). If you can't show at least some reasoning, then you haven't got the answer (except by sheer fluke).

[NGU]

Ok Im gonna throw some of ngu's reasoning that has a 2.6% chance of being right into the pot

Deserved for breathing life back in,- Kind of sounds like cait sith but i dont think so.
Stop a giant mastered from within.- May refer to Temple of the ancients

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,-May be refering to holy or lifestream.
Life’s story told in a place to mend.- sounds like Clouds mind

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change?-sounds like cid or maybe palmer.

When father’s daughter takes the crown,-Either Yuffie or tifa or maybe Red XIII
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown.- Nibelheim almost certain on it.

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,-Hmmm hard one maybe yuffie stealing materia.
Use surer feet or land deformed.- Maybe the difficulty to get to midgar.

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,-sounds like the two headed dragon.
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.The next three lines sound like getting the alexandra materia.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

[PhoenixAsh]

Hmmm... a disappointing number of responses so far. I'll give it another day before handing out too many specific clues. NGU, thank you for doing such a thorough breakdown. You're very close or partly correct in a couple of places.

I will make a couple of comments based on whats been said so far. There isn't much filler in this riddle. It is very hard, but most of the details aren't pointless. Also, the showing working as has been done is probably all anyone is gonna get at the moment, this is a VERY hard riddle, and there are a couple of leaps needed, but no one is near that stage yet.

I will say this, as I realized an extension of NGU's answer to one line is wrong but fits just as well as the actual answer...

"Life’s story told in a place to mend." Does not refer to Mideel.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

repost to save people flicking back n forth

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in,
Stop a giant mastered from within.

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change?

When father’s daughter takes the crown,
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown.

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,
Use surer feet or land deformed.

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

can i ask, is "the tango riddle" important or is that just what you have deemed it?

[musenji]

Maybe that's just based on the "sidewards glance" line. Tango has that dramatic look to the side by both partners, before they change direction (to where they're looking).

[PhoenixAsh]

The title is very important, and is there to help solve the riddle, but it won't be much use just yet though. It isn't relevant to the sidewards glance line though, and one does not require any in depth knowledge of the tango in order to use it.

[DeStyle]

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change?


I think I got this peice. You get a fight versus Palmer in Rocket town (I believe he did this little
fat man dance). He is overseer (or something) of the shinra space program.


Doesn't say a thing in yet though.

P.S> GREAT RIDDLE, different from those short and obscure (only encounter the solution once) riddles this one looks big and promising. An answer that is satisfying to find out, not something you just
happen to scroll over! It looks really hard though.

P.S.2> Is this a riddle that digs into the main story line? I haven't completed FF VII yet, I'm currently at the part where Aeris dies :(. Will that be enough to work on this riddle?

[PhoenixAsh]

Thanks :) It is big, I've done my best to make sure there's nothing too obscure in it, but it is damn hard, and a couple of steps really might take some hints, we'll see... Your guess was pretty good, but only partly correct. I'm not gonna say much just yet, I might start handing out clues in an hour or so, but it'd be nice to have some more ideas first. I'll say outright, I doubt anyone will get this entirely soon. I've tried to do something a bit different with this one, and while I think there are enough clues in there to show what to do, its by no means obvious :) Anyway, don't worry about that just yet, just try to work out what certain things might mean :)

EDIT: You can certainly help with parts of the riddle, and with later stages. That said, some parts of the riddle do refer to things that are either optional, or occur after disc one.

EDIT EDIT: Just to be clear, that didn't mean things that have to occur, but only optionally on disc one. It meant some things are completely optional, and some only occur after disc one.

[speedemon35]

very nice writing skills there phoenix:P
you should consider writing poetry based on FF7.
anyway back to your riddle:

it may just be me but the entire poem sounds closely related to the end of the game. I think all three Cloud, Aeris and to some point Sephiroth would love that dance although Cloud isn't part of my guess as an answer.


Deserved for breathing life back in,
Stop a giant mastered from within.

Refers to Aeris and the life force stopping the comet


Cause beginning of life to come to an end,
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Reference to North Crator/Crater(sp?)


Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change?

I think at the end after you've escaped from the depths of that place the rest of your team was already on board the flying thing(been too long I don't remember the name so I'll just say spaceship) and i'm almost sure Yufi started dancing or something at some point because Cloud was still alive


When father’s daughter takes the crown,
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown.

Clueless on this one at the moment. I'd have to remember where the cities are and have the map i front of me although i can easily be seen as a reference to Aeris and her father overlooking some town


Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,
Use surer feet or land deformed.

First line --> Life force stopping the comet that was about to hit
second line---> i'm guessing a movie sequence at that point in the game


From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

Alpha to Omega --> life to death, aeris to sephiroth, life force to comet
Sidewards glance could mean to look in the direction of the new life for the planet, Aeris glances at you and the "world" one last time and becomes part of the life stream happy to have provided the planet with this chance.

Trying to put your sleeping schedules back in order can do funny things to a person like me

[PhoenixAsh]

Thank you :) I'm sorry though, it isn't to do with the end of the game. I do appreciate you taking time to give working though, and good reasoning, but not the direction I'm coming from.

Okay I'll give some hints:

Firstly, most of the lines are pretty literal, or at least cryptically refer to specific things. As I said, there isn't much filler, pretty much everything is pointing towards something.

Secondly, the last four lines are intentionally distinct from the others, as is the title.

Okay, I'll give two bits of information that have been correct so far. The father and daughter are Godo and Yuffie, and the spaceship does refer to Rocket Town. There might have been more, but I'm too tired to check coherently just now.

[Spinz33]

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in,
Stop a giant mastered from within.-no clue

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,- i think it is the lifestream
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change?-Rocket Town

When father’s daughter takes the crown,
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown.- Mt. Nibel overlooks Nibehleim the hometown of tifa and cloud 2 of 9 characters

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,- the Weapons?
Use surer feet or land deformed.-no clue

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,- Hojo's research?
Just exactly who would love this chance?

These are just my observations. I know I am clueless on half of it so my thoughts are just here to trigger others(and my own possibly).

[PhoenixAsh]

Overlooking two of nine’s hometown.- Mt. Nibel overlooks Nibehleim the hometown of tifa and cloud 2 of 9 characters

Spot on! Good work :)

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

The thing about a storm and surer feet could be about the bridge in Nibelheim. What would be Yuffie's crown in Nibelheim?


Items in this area: Rune Blade, Plus Barrette, Powersoul, All Materia, Elixir,
Elemental Materia, Sniper CR, Counter Attack Materia

Items won from Bosses in the area: Jem Ring

Tips: Steal Gold Armlets from Dragons


...or it could be Trine since you can get it from Godo and the Materia Keeper in Mt. Nibel. Makes the most since.

[Spinz33]

Overlooking two of nine’s hometown.- Mt. Nibel overlooks Nibehleim the hometown of tifa and cloud 2 of 9 characters

Spot on! Good work :)

Thanks:D

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry Weimar, thorough reasoning, but going in the wrong direction with it.

[speedemon35]

dumb question but does the riddle follow any time line? like start of game to end of game?

[PhoenixAsh]

Thats not a dumb question at all. All I'll say for now is that chronology isn't important, and don't worry about overall structure just yet.

By the way, there aren't many responses so if people aren't interested in this riddle I don't mind taking it down. I'm not gonna give loads of clues or the answer because I actually quite like this riddle, but it is very hard. Its definitely solvable though as I've shown it to people outside of this thread. Anyway let me know what general opinion is.

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

maybe the crown is a hypno crown?

[PhoenixAsh]

Crown is a bit less literal than that. Don't be too put off though, I expected the early stages of this riddle to just be picked at until people landed on things.

[speedemon35]

now that I think about it a bit the crown could easily be the leviathan materia. After all if you want to get the leviathan materia in the first place you need to play with Yuffie and go up against those ppl in that funny tower and beat her father to take the materia from him

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

if we're looking at mt. nibel (overlooking w of 9's home) then chronologically

- shinra find mako in the mountain
- monsters appear
- Zack and sephi go to investigate, with cloud in tow
- sephi discovers he was "created"
- shinra mansion event
- sephi burns down neibelheim
- sephi injures tifa
- sephi releases jenova
- zack confronts sephi and dies
- cloud confronts sephi and wins . . . sort of
- zangan rescues tifa
- hojo takes zack and cloud to use as clones
- zack frees himself and cloud and they travel to midgar
- zack dies
- 5yrs later cloud and co. return to mt. nibel

if ive got anything wrong feel free to correct me. hope this helps

[musenji]

I've noticed that in your chronology, Zack dies twice. ;)

[PhoenixAsh]

Speedemon, exactly correct :) That line is indeed referring to Leviathan!

Just to clarify. I don't mean that chronology isn't important for now. I mean chronology isn't important at all, but thats all I'm saying regarding that question for now.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

guess that was all for nothing :D zack can die twice . . . cos . . .he's. . . . already dead! mwahahaha!

[musenji]

*is TOTALLY pwned* :)


I guess I'd better do something more to make this a worthwhile post. ...So, a few line meanings have been confirmed--lines 6, 7, and 8:

Do spaceship watchers ever change? (Rocket Town people)

When father’s daughter takes the crown (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mt. Nibel)


But the other lines are still up in the air.

(I know, that was the easy way.)

[speedemon35]

Completely out of the blue i just recalled something

Since the first 2 lines in the riddle apparently don't refer to the lifestream and you use the world breathe, if one were to take that literally the first time you go junon, when you're down in the beach helping Priscilla and that silly ass boss appears, and you kill it with ease, you have to do CPR to the girl(there goes the breathing life in line) and she rewards you with the shiva summon for saving her

about stopping a giant mastered within i guess you could be referring to the junon cannon since after all that thing is pretty huge like a giant and it can be mastered from within since you do require all sorts of engineers to build it and maintain it


just another odd guess but the next two verses:

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

since Mideel have been rules out, Midgar the same, Temple of the ancients doesn't seem like it since you didn't confirm it right now only place that can somehow be related to this would be Corel at the time of the fire by shinra troops which also happens to be related to Barrets life story(after all he does tell you a bit about it in a cutscene)


this will probably be the most far fetched idea ever:P

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,
Use surer feet or land deformed.

If one assumes this part is passed during that snowboard thing and that valley of Ice or whatever its called(haven't played through this part in ages), the unwelcome touch could be that part when you need to go touch that unclean spring if memory serves me right and then touch the man back(the kind of storm reference) so that you could attack him or attack Alexander to get the summon.

The use surer feet could easily be during the snowboarding mini game:P
Anyone with a couple of brain cells would prefer to land correctly especially when snowboarding down a huge mountain then to fall and land deformed


those are just a couple of random ideas that came to me all of a sudden:P

[PhoenixAsh]

Not too bad at all :)

Deserved for breathing life back in, (This is indeed referring to getting Shiva for doing CPR)


Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (And this refers to Alexander, obtained by touching someone who doesn't want to be touched with warm hands, and thus fighting snow (a kind of storm))

Nice work!


EDIT: sorry was in a rush, but just to say, the rest of your reasoning was good, but not right.

[speedemon35]

Stop a giant mastered from within-this just has to be a WEAPON.

they're the only things mastered within the earth and are also the only giant things that can be stopped.

So that verse has to refer to the part when the cannon is shot and blows the hell out of the sapphire weapon

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry, good reasoning, but not correct.

[demondude]

I IZ CONFUZZLED:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

[speedemon35]

^wow i couldn't think of a more useless post


back to the riddle:

to stop the giant mastered from within:
if its not a WEAPON, if its not the junon cannon then could it be the comet summoned by black materia?(i'm counting on the small chance that you overlooked my very first post in this thread and dind't notice that part:P)

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

so we know that it relates to leviathan, shiva, and alexander. stab in the dark but is it the summon monsters?

[PhoenixAsh]

The giant mastered from within is not meteor. Sorry.

Summons was a fair guess, but no :)

[Gundesh]

Ages ago that i played FFVII, but when i read this ridlle i remembered something

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

i totally forgot the name, but maybe this is referring to the town where Cloud falls sick and Ultima attacks. Cloud then falls in the lifestream and and his true life story is told.

like i said, long time since i played FFVII and a total wild guess

[speedemon35]

PhoenixAsh already stated a couple of replies back that the place wasn't Mideel which is the town you're referring to:(

Life’s story told in a place to mend.

ironically i just played the beginning of the second disc a couple minutes ago. I'm currently At The Icicle Inn
Decided to watch the tapes left at that professors house with his wife Ilfana or whoever your spell aeris moms name. Anyway one of the videos is entitled 'Original Crisis' where Ilfana speaks about the injury the planet suffered because of Jenova and what the Cetra did to try and heal it. This place 2000 years ago happens to be exactly where Icicle Inn is right now

I'm almost positive this is the answer to at least that verse. Might apply for both verses and the verse Cause beginning of life to come to an end, would refer to what triggered the original crisis but i'm not entirely sure on this one

[PhoenixAsh]

Yes sorry, it isn't Mideel...

Again, good thinking, but the life's story line isn't referring to that... I'm gonna leave the line as it is, even though I guess there could be more than one answer to it. You are narrowing down the possibilities though!

[Gundesh]

oh ok thanks anyway ^^
like i said, ages since i played it

[speedemon35]

the stop a giant mastered from within line could it be referring to the part where you actually inject the black materia into the real sephiroth that was in that cocoon like thing?

[demondude]

[quote=speedemon35;2198101]^wow i couldn't think of a more useless post


quote]

I was expressing my confusion:)

In style;)

[speedemon35]

^whatever you say.

phoenix been a bit over a day or more since you confirmed if my new guesses were correct:(

[PhoenixAsh]

Oh, sorry... No again, not correct I'm afraid. Think a lot more literally on that bit :)

The reason I took a while to respond is because there was only really one guess since my last post... Seriously if people want me to retract the riddle I don't mind. It is solvable, but if people aren't interested thats okay :)

[speedemon35]

it doesn't get that much more literal than the comet:S and yet that ain't the answer. i'm deeply interested in the riddle but i seem to be one of the very few. if you do take it down at least i want a pm with it explained

[Eagleheart]

it doesn't get that much more literal than the comet:S and yet that ain't the answer. i'm deeply interested in the riddle but i seem to be one of the very few. if you do take it down at least i want a pm with it explained

As one of two people (that I know of) who have solved this riddle already, I can't even clearly discern the path of reasoning that got you "comet" for the line in question. The key to this riddle is that the lines are direct references to specific events, and that there's a commonality that ties them together. I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds by posting this, Phoenix, but I think it might help.


Also, repost:

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in,
Stop a giant mastered from within.

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change?

When father’s daughter takes the crown,
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown.

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,
Use surer feet or land deformed.

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

[speedemon35]

maybe the words stop a giant will help you with that.
phoenix already stated every single line is to be taken literally and i have figured out a few of them if you look back. i'm still far away from piecing them together though. thats another story

[PhoenixAsh]

No thats okay Eagleheart :) Although for reference to everyone, becareful with the 'common theme' thing, it isn't nearly that simple, which is why I haven't hinted at it so far...

speedemon35 I see your reasoning, perhaps if you think about changing the grammar you're interpreting the line with that might help. Thats about as vague as I can get without handing it to you though :) Thanks for persisting with this though, its nice that it isn't a waste :)

As noone has responded about keeping this up or not, I'm gonna leave it up. No point taking it down if people aren't interested in the thread at all at the moment :)

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

is a giant mastered from within referring to proud clod, which holds heidegger and scarlet?

[Gundesh]

maybe a giant mastered from within is a summon?
deserved for breething life back in, you get summons for materia and materia comes directly out of the lifestream, so that could mean the breathing life part.
i don't know if it is right.

oooh, i just tought of something.
you eventually kill Sephiroth and he's kinda possesed bij Jenova, that would mean the mastered part, about the giant, at the end he's quite huge.

and don't take the ridle down please, it's quite interesting to see it solved

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

what we know so far:

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, --> talking about getting shiva from helping priscilla
Stop a giant mastered from within. --> proud clod

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change? --> the people of rocket town

When father’s daughter takes the crown, --> leviathan
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. --> mt. nibel. this probably refers to materia keeper

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,
Use surer feet or land deformed.

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

[PhoenixAsh]

Ummm.... I'm not really in a state to say much right now, but Proud Clod is correct... Though father's daughter is Leviathan, not Trine. Thanks for reposting that though, I meant to get round to it :)

[Gundesh]

all stuff people got so far are events in the game
if i remember well, most of the time you get materia when they are done.
Yuffie steals your materia, so she would love the change to take more.
plus she's a ninja and that would mean the glance part, you only catch a glance of her

[Spinz33]

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,- Gaia?

With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.

Some research done and one more glance,- maybe this refers to the guy that does research on Aeris' mom?...i don't know if this has been said already

Just exactly who would love this chance?

And yes please keep the riddle up

[Timster]

From alpha to Omega could refer to shinra beta armor or the Beta skill (that you get from the Zolom)

Just trying to help :)

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry, no ones got anything new so far....

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

everytime i see "the tango riddle" i think of tango the dance. sorry to break it down but can you jus clarify if this is right?

[PhoenixAsh]

Yep, that is referring to the dance :)

[DeStyle]

Then might "Responding with a dance is slightly strange"
refer to the little victory dance your characters perform if
you win a battle?

- Tango -> Tango of Tears (soundtrack from FF VII) -> Sounds
like a slow version of the victory song.


The whole verse might refer to the victory dance of Cid or something.

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry, was waiting for more than one response before posting...

Again, good thinking, but not correct sorry.

[hplvr]

taking a stab at this AMAZING riddle of yours
i dont know if this has been said yet but, maybe "Life's Story told in a place to mend" is refering to the gigantic crater where the promised land is (cant think of the name)???
srry if im interfering....

[PhoenixAsh]

Interfering? Don't be silly, anyone is welcome to guess :) Sorry, you aren't correct though.

I'll repost with what I can remember has been solved, sorry if I miuss anything.


“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, (Shiva)
Stop a giant mastered from within. (Proud Clod)

Cause beginning of life to come to an end,
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change? (The spaceship is the one in Rocket Town)

When father’s daughter takes the crown, (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mount Nibel)

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (Alexander)
Use surer feet or land deformed.

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

Think thats everything, keep going :)

[hplvr]

uhh maybe the reasearch part from the last paragraph refers to professer Gast???

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

and maybe the who would love this chance bit refers to hojo taking ifalna.

does "cause the beginning of life to come to an end" refer to sephi stopping holy? and maybe the life stories bit is about our heroes telling the tale in the ruins of a world left behind in the aftermath of the meteor incident

[Leonheart188]

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (is this ifrit)
Life’s story told in a place to mend. (is this cosmo canyon)

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (is it choco/mog)
Use surer feet or land deformed. (the gold saucer prison, cant remember the name)

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined, (is this kjata)
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind. (whirlwind maze or the forest of the ancients in bone village?)
Some research done and one more glance, (Harp)
Just exactly who would love this chance? (ifalna, random guess lol)

This all could be wrong lol, im going by a whim and a pattern in the riddle, perhaps im wrong and i proberly am lol, n i just read what i hadnt read before and that the common theme doesnt go on, so im going to guess allthis is wrong even more so lol :P, i have no idea what the overall riddle is, im just trying to help lol :)

[PhoenixAsh]

Congrats to the new player :) Leonheart gets:

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (Ifrit, obtained by killing Jenova Birth)

and

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (Choco/Mog, given after the chocobos dance when you talk to them)

Sorry to everything else, thats all correct so far :)

[hplvr]

hmmm seems this continunes to refer to summon materia...
"Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm,
Use surer feet or land deformed."
does this refer to Kjata

[musenji]

Reposting the riddle with the line meanings that have been guessed:



“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, (Shiva)
Stop a giant mastered from within. (Proud Clod)

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (Ifrit)
Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (Choco/Mog)
Do spaceship watchers ever change? (people in Rocket Town)

When father’s daughter takes the crown, (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mt. Nibel)

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (Alexander)
Use surer feet or land deformed.

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

[Leonheart188]

lol thanks, i might have to go play the whole of ffVII again in less than 60hours, so i can get this riddle lol, its grown on me and im far too stubborn lol

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, I'm gonna say now that there are no more summons to be worked out. That said, I think hplvr may be on to something with some of his reasoning.

[Leonheart188]

Life’s story told in a place to mend.

all we need is this to complete the seperate lines, so everyone work out this lol :)

[f f freak]

Life’s story told in a place to mend.

Could this line refer to the Northern Crater. The whole mending thing makes me think of the Lifestream having to mend the damage done by Jenova which is the Northern Crater I believe.

Sorry if this has been guessed before.

[riallews]

"Life’s story told in a place to mend"

the Inn at Nibelheim? Because Cloud tells them all what happened, and an Inn is a place to mend....

this is one heck of a riddle!

[PhoenixAsh]

Actually Leonheart "Use surer feet or land deformed" has yet to be solved explicitly :)

riallews I'm gonna give you it, as I'm pretty sure you got the answer, but said the wrong place. The story told is indeed set in Nibelheim, but the inn it is told in is actually in Kalm :)

[riallews]

aha! ty for that lol - been four years since i last played :P

[DeStyle]

Hmm, Proud Clod doesn't fit the rest of the structure of the riddle
so I guess there's more to him (first line = summon, second line =
location, exept for Proud Clod, asuming that "use surer feet or land
deformed" points at a location too).

"From Alpha to Omega the elements combined" could refer to the
summons once again (since there's probably a summon for each
element). I'm thinking Alpha to Omega could be translated as the
beginning and end. From the beginning to the end the elements combined, still doesn't ring a bell.

P.S. 1> Wait a minute, didn't Tango refer to the dance part of the
riddle? Chocobos ain't doing the tango or somethign.

P.S. 2> Small point of critique, on this moment there's some nasty
things in your riddle. Example:

"Responding with dance is slightly strange,
Do spaceship watchers ever change?"

You made it look like the spaceship watchers directly relate to the
dance, as in spaceship watchers are the ones dancing. I'm sure
they're related but you posted two parts as one sentence, sugesting
a direct relationship between the parts.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

who's to say there isn't a link? now what relates the chocobo dance to the people of rocket town . . .

[f f freak]

who's to say there isn't a link? now what relates the chocobo dance to the people of rocket town . . .

All the people of Rocket Town are really Chocobo's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

[Leonheart188]

lol i agree with ff freak, that is the relationship, and palmer goes there to eats them lol, anyway, tnx for reminding me phoenix, i forgot about that one, so is the 4th line of riddle kalm? i thought that but i thought someone else said it, so i diddnt lol, mmmm and isnt the tango of tears, a losing race theme, so has it got something to do with losing, and i jsut thought of this randomly, is huge materia in this somewhere? jsut i guess, i just remembered it so i thought id mention it :D hehe

[PhoenixAsh]

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, (Shiva)
Stop a giant mastered from within. (Proud Clod)

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (Ifrit)
Life’s story told in a place to mend. (Kalm)

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (Choco/Mog)
Do spaceship watchers ever change? (people in Rocket Town)

When father’s daughter takes the crown, (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mt. Nibel)

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (Alexander)
Use surer feet or land deformed.

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?


DeStyle, don't read too much into Proud Clod not being a location, you're thinking along the right lines with a lot of things though :) The title is not referring to the dance mentioned in the main riddle.

Regarding your critique. I'm not gonna argue with it if you don't like it as its a fair comment. I intentionally wrote it to appear like the lines were linked to throw people off the real solutions. I wrote them on separate lines to show where the actual separations were. That said, my structuring isn't arbitrary :)

EDIT: Sorry Leonheart, you're not on the right lines.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

does the deformity bit refer to hojos experiments? either on the clones or the monsters in the reactors?

[Leonheart188]

woot thought not

[PhoenixAsh]

No DP, I'm afraid it doesn't.

[DeStyle]

“The Tango Riddle”
Regarding your critique. I'm not gonna argue with it if you don't like it as its a fair comment. I intentionally wrote it to appear like the lines were linked to throw people off the real solutions. I wrote them on separate lines to show where the actual separations were. That said, my structuring isn't arbitrary :)


Okay, is it correct if I conclude that in the 2 line paragraphs the 2 lines
are related in a way but not as you would literally suggest?

If that's the case I think it would be time to look for connections
between the two lines of either 2 line paragraph.

[PhoenixAsh]

Ummm... I'm not gonna say much, but I wouldn't recommend that line of thinking. Much as it is a fairly logical thing to do :)

I won't hint much, but at some point in this thread you have wandered towards the right line of thinking required for this stage. Although don't give up on "Use surer feet or land deformed", that does still need to be solved...

[Spinz33]

Use surer feet or land deformed.

surer feet is that a chocobo? because with the chocobo you can get over deformed lands if i remember correctly

[PhoenixAsh]

Surer feet is a chocobo :) but note that I said OR land deformed...

[Leonheart188]

surer feet is that a chocobo? because with the chocobo you can get over deformed lands if i remember correctly


im using the example above, if it is correct, the island that you get knights of the round, cant remember whats its called but, you cant land there in a airship, so only accessable by chocobo, so hopefully what Spinz33 said is correct, if not forget what i said :P

[Spinz33]

wow and i didn't think that was going to be it...but you said thats only the surer feet part, the or land deformed is something different?

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry, Leonheart not correct. Spinz not sure if I made this clear or not, chocobo isn't part of the solution to that line itself, but the surer feet part is referring to chocobos.

[hplvr]

would it possible be refering to the Knights of the Round Materia, since you need a Chocobo to get to to the Knights of the Round

[Spinz33]

Spinz not sure if I made this clear or not, chocobo isn't part of the solution to that line itself, but the surer feet part is referring to chocobos.

o ok now i got nothing:mad:

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

the only things i can think of where a chocbo is necessary is marsh, quicksand, and rivers cliffs and oceans if ur getting secret stuff. maybe the land deformed bit refers to the midgar zolom as he kind of blends in with the ground and if u don't ur surer feet he will appear

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry no one has got it yet... I'm kind of reluctant to say anything about this (and am a little worried that I've missed a correct guess) because I actually thought this was one of the easiest lines in the riddle... It isn't remotely cryptic or oddly worded.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

so literally translated, if you don't use a chocobo then when you land (presumabley from a fall) you will land deformed (i.e without grace, fall over, break you leg, shriek in agony, etc)

. . .still got no idea :D

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, sorry perhaps the grammar was slightly odd... land deformed is referring to deformed land.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

so if you don't use a chocobo the land will become deformed?

STILL have no idea. i can't think of a situation in the game where if you don't use a chocobo the land will be altered . . .

EDIT: thinking about it the only thing i can think of where the land alters is after you kill ultima WEAPON. has it got anything to do with this?

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry, didn't notice the edit, yes that is what the land deformed is talking about... Just need to get the actual specific answer and then you're ready to tackle the next step of the riddle :)

[hplvr]

ummm maybe when you get the Typhoon materia in that forest place?

[PhoenixAsh]

Not Typhoon, the line is simply referring to the Ancient Forest :)

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, (Shiva)
Stop a giant mastered from within. (Proud Clod)

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (Ifrit)
Life’s story told in a place to mend. (Kalm)

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (Choco/Mog)
Do spaceship watchers ever change? (people in Rocket Town)

When father’s daughter takes the crown, (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mt. Nibel)

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (Alexander)
Use surer feet or land deformed. (Ancient Forest)

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?


Well thats all main lines sorted, time for the next step :)

[BG-57]

Since the first line of each couplet refers to a Summon I'm going to guess the Alpha to Omega line refers to KoTR, since it covers all the bases and several knight attacks look elemental in nature.

[PhoenixAsh]

Started well, then went in entirely the wrong direction, sorry :) By the way, this step is possibly the hardest in the riddle... possibly.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

is the research done and one more glance referring to hades, as he was shinra's secret weapon aboard the Gelnika and they must have researched it to crate the materia

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry, nice thinking but not on the right lines. Also I did mention (I think), that there are no more summons to be found in the riddle.

Pay attention to the fact that the last paragraph is structured differently to the rest of the riddle.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

is the last paragraph referring to the northern cave? you go through a wide variety of different environments (alpha to omega) and it's easy to get lost (path unwinds)

[Carl the Llama]

Im pretty sure the answer is Kjata or somthing to do with Kjata:

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined, - all the elements combined
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind. - you first see it when you glance sideways in the forest
Some research done and one more glance, - you keep checking to see if you were seeing things
Just exactly who would love this chance? - if the enemy absorbs any one of the elements the it heals them instead of hurting them.

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry, no and no. I can't give many hints unfortunately without giving a lot away. Though I will say again, there are no more summons to be worked out.

[hplvr]

ummm myabe Alpha and Omega refers to the Weapons? and somehow in the middle of them there is something that makes you looks sideways? or w.e
or maybe the last paragraph itself is referring to one thing..... hmmm tricky
ummmmm the one thing i really want to figure out though is the reasearch part, which onyl Professer Gast and Hojo come to mind, maybe it refers to the actual research about the ancients, and aeris and such?

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

maybe the research could be referring to bugenhagen as well? the "combined" bit could be about the show bugenhagen which shows you thast everything (from alpha to omega) is joined by lifestream.

[bdon333]

does the last paragraph have something to do with the lifestream?

[Timster]

i've watched this riddle for a looong time and i think that the last paragraph is like a lead on what to do with all the other lines. Because they all have different answers without ANY connection to eachother... that's why I think that maybe the sidewards glance means that you ahve to read the answers from the side, like the first letter in each answer or something... I remember a riddle in the FF8 forums with that exact solution... so maybe we're supposed to look more at the individual answers than the paragraph itself, it's probably just telleing us what to do with the answers...

[PhoenixAsh]

:) TiMsTeR may be onto something....

[JonyH]

D }3
S }

C }1
L }

R }5
D }

W }4
O }

O }2
U }

These pairs of capital letters found at the beginning of each line can be arranged (in numbered order) to spell "CLOUD SWORD"

I therefore assume the last paragraph is talking about the Buster Sword. So anyone know "Just exactly who would love this chance?"

[DeStyle]

I don't think we're quite there yet.

I believe I'm on to something here.

Proud Clod drops Ragnarok.
Yoshiyuki is given to you at rocket town (by the people of rocket town).
Rune Blade is found at Mt. Nibel.
Apocalypse is found at ancients forest.
Mythril Saber can be bought at Kalm.


Right now I think we need to solve "From Alpha to Omega the
elements combined" I guess it has something to do with the summons,
it should connect them.

The step after that (sidewards glance) we already figured out.

Then we must do more research, I think that means that we have to
link those weapons with whatever the answer of "From alpha..." is.

Finally answer the question "who exactly would love a chance".

EDIT: Hmm maybe the elements combined bit is referring to the elements of the
discovered summons. Which are Ice (Shiva), Fire (Ifrit), Water (Leviathan), Holy
(Alexander) and wind (Choco/Mog). In that case we'll be looking for anything that
shares these five elements.

[JonyH]

I assumed that the line "From alpha to Omega the elements combined" refers to "use from the beginning to the end of the riddle" before taking the sideways glance. I don't think we're really missing much more except the final answer.

EDIT: But the information about the weapon locations looks useful . . .

[PhoenixAsh]

I'm not gonna say too much as you're both doing EXTREMELY well. I hold my hands up as my own fault that the first line may be harder to solve than skipping it and going to the second line, though it might be useful to solve it anyway to understand where to go next. You're both very close :).

Anyway, doing very well, and as a minor hint, consider that I would never expect anyone to arbitrarily start anagramming letters (or at least not quite this arbitrarily).

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

it's seems everyones confuzzled by this riddle and this thread is on the verge of death so lets try to start it up again shall we?

REPOST:

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, (Shiva)
Stop a giant mastered from within. (Proud Clod)

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (Ifrit)
Life’s story told in a place to mend. (Kalm)

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (Choco/Mog)
Do spaceship watchers ever change? (people in Rocket Town)

When father’s daughter takes the crown, (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mt. Nibel)

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (Alexander)
Use surer feet or land deformed. (Ancient Forest)

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

thinking about what DeStyle said about elements combining, this could be talking about tetra elementals? unless ofc JonyH is right in which case just ignore that :D

[PhoenixAsh]

Thanks DP, I didn't want to double post... I don't know why everyone's stopped trying, JonyH and Destyle were both close to solving the next few steps of the riddle... I'd recommend (and like) for people to try and sort out whats been solved so far in the last paragraph, it should help clarify whats been done and what is left to do.

[JonyH]

The only reason I stopped posting is because personally, I was stuck. I was hoping for some input on what I'd written from other people to see what sparked in their heads. Looks like all we're doing at the moment is encouraging each other! :D

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

someone call tav or endless, no doubt they can solve this! :D

can i ask was the tetra elemental thing wrong. i think i already know the answer but it's worth a shot :D

[PhoenixAsh]

Oh sorry yeah, Tetra Elemental was wrong. I recommend people look through the last few posts by JonyH, TiMsTeR and Destyle. There is enough in them to be working with. A small step was missed that isn't necessary but might make things clearer later on as to what is left to do. Bear in mind that the riddle is nearly solved, so you shouldn't need to come up with much new information.

I guess it might be worth saying that the word 'combined' shouldn't be taken as literally combining the 'elements'. The style of writing is a bit different for the final paragraph which I think is confusing people slightly.

Anyway, lets get this solved. Look at whats been done, look at the last few posts and probably try not to go for a final answer just yet.

[JonyH]

Some research done and one more glance,

That's the line which we need new information from. I think. I just wish it were more specific as to what we're supposed to research. Is it everything we've looked at or just the buster sword? Hmm . . .

[DeStyle]

We're not at the "some research done" line yet.
We really need to solve the "elements combined" line.

Definition of "combine" click (http://rhyme.poetry.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Word=combine&typeofrhyme=def&org1=syl&org2=l&cbr=pc).

"mix together different elements" maybe combining is used in this way.

"From Alpha to Omega the elements combined" would translate as such:
"From the beginning to the end different elements (of gameplay or
whatnot) combined".

I'm guessing the elements part refers to gameplay. Note that in a
rough simplification using my stated definition of combined we end
up with two times the word elements. This could be telling us that
elements has two meanings? Sounds rather obscure though.

Am I on the right tracks here?

[PhoenixAsh]

You're thought process is good DeStyle, but I think my last post may have been misleading, sorry. The word 'combined' with respect to the elements line is almost irrelevant. As you seem to have realized, the final verse of the riddle isn't as disconnected as the previous lines were.
That said, the word combined could apply to the elements line, but it is probably easier to justify when you know the solution, rather than before.
You are entirely on the right track of where to start though. I don't think this will take much longer to solve, as a LOT of the leaps have been made in the last couple of pages.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

dunno if this has been said before but maybe the elements combined could refer to master materia.

[PhoenixAsh]

Good thinking but no I'm afraid. Try reading what TiMsTeR said for hints about what the last lines are doing.

Also a quick question to everyone to nudge this along. I've already said that you've skipped a step, and that I wouldn't have written the riddle expecting you to make the leap to the step you did. So what that you've already done could have been hinted at in the first line?

[musenji]

Wow, it's been almost two months...

[PhoenixAsh]

Oh god... I really hope people aren't angry when they find out the solution... I dunno why its slowed down so much recently, its so nearly finished.

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

This thread can't die or i'll have nothing to do! :) maybe a repost to get things running again?

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, (Shiva)
Stop a giant mastered from within. (Proud Clod)

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (Ifrit)
Life’s story told in a place to mend. (Kalm)

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (Choco/Mog)
Do spaceship watchers ever change? (people in Rocket Town)

When father’s daughter takes the crown, (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mt. Nibel)

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (Alexander)
Use surer feet or land deformed. (Ancient Forest)

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

so we know that the last lines refer to how to arrange the previous answers and get the answer. maybe we need to match up the summons with the closest location to getting that summon. e.g. choco mog - kalm

getting warmer?

[Firo Volondé]

"From Alpha to Omega" may well refer to alphabetical order, at least for the summons, since most of them are elemental (elements combined). "Combined" may just mean when you put them together in a list.

Alexander
Chocomog
Ifrit
Leviathan
Shiva

And the towns could just be put either alphabetically, or in order that you visit them.

Ancient Forest Kalm
Kalm Mt. Nibel
Mt. Nibel Rocket Town
Proud Clod Proud Clod
Rocket Town Ancient Forest

I put Mt. Nibel second because you go there during the Kalm flashback.

I don't have any idea who it could be yet. Just putting forward some thoughts.

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, DP, very nice idea, but no... I appreciate the loyalty to the riddle though :)

Volonde, you hit on something VERY important, but didn't quite finish the train of thought correctly.

Sorry, I don't want to push solving the first line too much as it really isn't that necessary (maybe slightly) in solving the riddle... But pretty much everyone has managed to skim (some VERY closely) the solution to it, and once thats sorted it should (hopefully) be a bit clearer how to finally put this thing to rest. If people just look back over the last couple of pages at what other people have said, and my responses, then it really should be doable...

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

maybe the summons should be arranged in the order you get them?

Chocomog
Shiva
Ifrit
Leviathan
Alexander

down the side the letters spell "CSILA" . . . is the answer the TV show "Crime Scene Investigation: Los Angeles"? lmao :D

[DeStyle]

Well, I've thought alot about possible anagrams and letter order
in this riddle, nothing came out :(.

I can still make a longshot though, if Choco/Mog would be seen as
Choco, Mog and you use the M as well you can get the word "claims".
If that's the case I guess the question is who'd want to claim Clouds Sword,
but I haven't found anything plausible for that.

[PhoenixAsh]

Umm... no... you're overthinking this... Honestly most of the work is done. Most of solving the elements line is just to establish something thats already been worked out. Okay, I'll say that solution to the line "With a sidewards glance should your path unwind." is CLOUD SWORD... I wouldn't expect people to get that by anagramming either (even though they did).

[BG-57]

Is it the route that Ultima WEAPON can take when it flees from place to place? It drops a sword for Cloud when defeated (Ultima Weapon).

Or has this been suggested already?

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry, nice thinking, but not the right lines.

Look, I've given all the advice I really can without giving away the answer. I'm gonna suggest I retire this riddle, and anyone who wants to keep guessing can PM me. I'll keep it running here if people want, but the threads kinda dieing now....

Thanks everyone for keeping at it. I wouldn't have kept going as long as I did apart from the fact that I know two people have solved it via PMs, so it IS possible. You all did get extremely close :)

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

i think we should keep at it if we're as close as you say we are. not that i have any new ideas to input at trhis point :D

[PhoenixAsh]

:rolleyes2 :D

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, (Shiva)
Stop a giant mastered from within. (Proud Clod)

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (Ifrit)
Life’s story told in a place to mend. (Kalm)

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (Choco/Mog)
Do spaceship watchers ever change? (people in Rocket Town)

When father’s daughter takes the crown, (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mt. Nibel)

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (Alexander)
Use surer feet or land deformed. (Ancient Forest)

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind. (Cloud sword)
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?

Now I've already said that solving the elements line isn't strictly necessary in solving the riddle, but that it should make it a lot clearer as to what is left to do.
I have also said that I would never have written the riddle expecting someone to all of a sudden decide to anagram the letters up the side.
I have ALSO said that people have come extremely close to solving the elements line... Bear in mind that because the Cloud sword line leads directly from the first, it isn't really the solution which is important, its WHY its the solution.

[musenji]

Just wanted to confirm that there are only about two steps left. You're on the green, as it were. And you don't really need any new ideas...

[JonyH]

It's really annoying saying we're nearly there, because we not only have no clue what to do next, we don't even know what we're looking for!

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

is it clouds "orgaincs" sword? in something organic there are a wide variety of elements which it is composed of (carbon, phosphorous, etc). it fits in with "cloud sword" and it is bought in a place where research is done, icicle inn where you find the videos

[musenji]

Actually JonyH, I'm inclined to agree. I probably should've just kept out of it.

[JonyH]

lol, not your fault musenji, it's just really frustrating not knowing what it is you're looking for. Makes it harder to find.

[PhoenixAsh]

No musenji, I appreciated you inputting, I'd considered asking you to say something a while back.

JonyH, while I do sympathize, I have repeatedly given advice on what needs doing, and what people should be looking at. I posted several times that people should be organising what had been said and in my last post I even gave away where the missing step was meant to lead. You have all of the answers to the previous lines, several people have given analysis of the last paragraph's format, and I've explicitly stated which bit needs solving next and the final result of that step. I'm hardly leaving you in the dark.

Sorry DP, no.

[JonyH]

:rolleyes2 :D
Now I've already said that solving the elements line isn't strictly necessary in solving the riddle, but that it should make it a lot clearer as to what is left to do.
I have also said that I would never have written the riddle expecting someone to all of a sudden decide to anagram the letters up the side.
I have ALSO said that people have come extremely close to solving the elements line... Bear in mind that because the Cloud sword line leads directly from the first, it isn't really the solution which is important, its WHY its the solution.

This is what's confusing me. Are you saying we've found the solution but need to say why it IS the solution? If not, what sort of solution are we looking for? An idea? A place? A weapon? A character? There don't appear to be any hints as to the NATURE of the answer, that's my only problem. It's such an awesome riddle I can't fault it, very cleverly worked out and far beyond anything I could ever do. I'm just finding the final steps a bit beyond my grasp. Like I have all the pieces to the puzzle, but no picture from which to work out where they go.

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, thanks to a note from Musenji I'm directing everyone to DeStyle's post number 3709. He managed to nail a lot of what needs doing with it.

Just to clarify, no one has come close to the actual solution of the riddle, but thats because I wrote the riddle so that only once everything else was done could it be possible to get the answer. The solution I'm talking about that has been arrived at is the answer to the elements combined line. Someone solved it a while back unintentionally, and it has been mentioned frequently and accepted as part of the riddle. No one so far has got exactly how that solution was meant to be found though.

Sorry if I sounded defensive before, its just this has been going so long that the answer can't not be an anti-climax... I'm just trying to make it clear that I am giving as much help as I possibly can :)

[DeStyle]

Well, there's one more thinng I can think of (actually I thought of it before but it's just too farfetched).

The summons can be combined (their first letters) to form an anagram,
which (with Choco AND Mog included*) can spell claims. Which would
turn the final question into "Who would love to claim Clouds sword?".

Hmpf Gilgamesh seemingly has stolen Clouds sword in some other games
but I can't find anything solving that question in FF VII.

*I figured in Choco/Mog mog has always been capitalised so maybe
it's just as important as Choco.

[JonyH]

That sounds like quite a nice idea there DeStyle.

I hope the 'unintenional solution' isn't referring to CLOUD SWORD, as that was quite intended! :P

In which case, if we've solved the elements combined line perhaps you could tell us what it is we decided the answer was? :D

[PhoenixAsh]

Sorry DeStyle. Again, the elements combined line has nothing to do with the final answer. I want you to solve it because it will make it clearer what WILL lead to the final answer.

JonyH, sorry unintended was unfair. CLOUD SWORD is indeed the solution... well actually no, CLOUD SWORD is the intended solution for the second line, not the first. I have said repeatedly however that you were never meant to anagram the side letters, this is why I consider it slightly stumbled across (albeit impressively). This should make it VERY clear what the solution to the first line is meant to be, just not WHY it is the solution.

[JonyH]

The first line of the last paragraph basically means:
'From beginning to end, everything combined.'
As far as I can see.
So the solution is either:
'Summons and places' or 'anagram' or I don't know what.
I'm sorry phoenix, I just don't think it's as clear to find the solution as you seem to think it is. If we have actually said it, then you would be telling us it was the answer, so we need something that hasn't been said. And that's worrying, because we've exhausted a lot of ideas.

[DeStyle]

REPOST:

“The Tango Riddle”

Deserved for breathing life back in, (Shiva)
Stop a giant mastered from within. (Proud Clod)

Cause beginning of life to come to an end, (Ifrit)
Life’s story told in a place to mend. (Kalm)

Responding with dance is slightly strange, (Choco/Mog)
Do spaceship watchers ever change? (people in Rocket Town)

When father’s daughter takes the crown, (Leviathan)
Overlooking two of nine’s hometown. (Mt. Nibel)

Over an unwelcome touch a kind of storm, (Alexander)
Use surer feet or land deformed. (Ancient Forest)

From Alpha to Omega the elements combined,
With a sidewards glance should your path unwind.
Some research done and one more glance,
Just exactly who would love this chance?


Okay, so "From alpha to Omega the elements combined, with a sidewards glance should your path unwind" is hinting at the need to anagram the first letters of every sentence?

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, so "From alpha to Omega the elements combined, with a sidewards glance should your path unwind" is hinting at the need to anagram the first letters of every sentence?

Essentially, yes.... But again, not quite. CLOUD SWORD is NOT meant to be arrived upon by anagramming! At least, not in the conventional sense.

Okay, broken down as much as possible.

"With a sidewards glance should your path unwind." This means look at the letters down at the side of the riddle to arrive at the answer, CLOUD SWORD. As you will notice however, if you look at the side of the riddle, it does NOT spell CLOUD SWORD, it spells DSCLRDWOOU. As I have said that anagramming is not required, and you have a missing step before the sidewards glance line, it should, in my opinion, be fairly clear what this missing step entails.

EDIT: musenji, if you have anything to add to what I've said, go for it. I'm trying to give as much as I can, but I can't think of how to point them to the actual solution yet without outright answering parts of the riddle.

[musenji]

This will all be quoted from previous posts (you asked for it, PA):

***
Destyle: Right now I think we need to solve "From Alpha to Omega the elements combined" I guess it has something to do with the summons, it should connect them.

Destyle: Hmm maybe the elements combined bit is referring to the elements of the discovered summons. Which are Ice (Shiva), Fire (Ifrit), Water (Leviathan), Holy (Alexander) and wind (Choco/Mog).

Firo Volonde: "From Alpha to Omega" may well refer to alphabetical order, at least for the summons, since most of them are elemental (elements combined). "Combined" may just mean when you put them together in a list.

[DeStyle]

Ah I understand (finally :P).

The elements combined refers to: From the beginning to the end (of the game) elements (of this riddle, I guess) put together, looked upon from
the side. It's in the order of how you visit the places/summons.

I guess the difficulty for me layed in the fact that I did not recognise the , I figured the sentences were single sentences each ment to get us a step further.

[musenji]

Sorry, that's not what I was going for...re-read, in my last post, what Firo said and the second thing you said.

Unless you were just responding to PA, in which case, *disappears*

Edit: K, I just edited my last post so there can't be any mistaking what I was going for.