That's it, I've decided to become a vegetarian.

[Dingo Jellybean]

I'm going to see how this goes for a few weeks. The key is to eat when you're not hungry...so we'll see.

I will still eat fish, so I know there will be "some" controversy on that. So eh. Any pesco-vegetarians here?

[RSL]

Back in high school a bunch of my friends became vegetarians. I decided that I would too. That lasted exactly one meal.

[Venom]

I tried it, and it lasted me about a minute and i said "no way! screw this" and then i had some fried chicken.

[Destai]

Fish are stupid so it doesnt matter if you eat them. Good luck anyway.

Id quote something funny Shlup Quack said about cows being yummy but...no.

[Lindy]

Someone at uni asked me if I was a vegetarian because I was eating a vegetable lasagne instead of a portion of chicken.

The same person who'd sat next to me and watched me eat a beef and mushroom pie three days earlier.

[Shlup]

I eat a lot of vegetarian meals, but I can't just be a vegetarian. That forbidden fruit complex would get to me and I'd start gnawing on cows.

Last time I went on a vegetarian diet Ashley started having BBQs with big fat steaks. :aimmad: Tofu "steaks" are the saddest thing ever, by the way.

[RSL]

Tofu anything is sad.

[Miriel]

Tofu anything is sad.
That's not true at all. Tofu pretending to be other food is sad, but tofu itself can be really good.

[Del Murder]

Meat is good. That's all I know, and all I care about.

[Chibi Youkai]

I know a couple of vegaterians. Most of them have gotten to the point that they need medical assistance because they've not had meat products in so long that they're systems can't handle it.

[fire_of_avalon]

That's not true at all. Tofu pretending to be other food is sad, but tofu itself can be really good.
No it can't! Don't be fooled by the tofu-y hijinks!

Dingo, you were able to pretty much completely change your diet around to solve whatever skin problems you were having, so this should be easy peasy lemon-squeezy.

Meantime, please pass me your portion of cheeseburgers. :D?

[Shlup]

My vegitarian chicken patties are freaking delicious. I like soy and tofu. Just not when it's pretending to be beef. It makes pretty good other meats though.

[kikimm]

Ha, I used to be a vegetarian. For about a year, I think. Although I still ate fish too. It worked out pretty okay. But I remember having to eat a lot of yogurt.

I just like turkey and chicken too much.

[Mitch]

better than being a vegetable.

[Miriel]

No it can't! Don't be fooled by the tofu-y hijinks!


I'm guessing you haven't had much asian food? Tofu in miso soup is great. Really.

[Meat Puppet]

I'm good. :cool:

[rubah]

if I was vegetarian I would die.

[GooeyToast]

I like beef jerky

[eestlinc]

saying "I'm a vegetarian but I eat fish" is like saying "I'm an atheist but I believe in God."

[fire_of_avalon]

I'm guessing you haven't had much asian food? Tofu in miso soup is great. Really.
I have, and I still don't like it. I don't HATE it, like I normally hate onions and mushrooms and most seafood, but I still don't like it. Also I wanted to use the word hijinks really badly.

[eestlinc]

i'm not veg but I eat tofu with some frequency because it is good in soup and stir fry.

[Chibi Youkai]

Tofu in stir-fry is great.
It's also good when you mix just a little in with lasagne.

[Calliope]

Vegetables are food, tofu is not.

[Kijunaa]

After about three weaks, it's not hard anymore.

Boca burgers + morningstar farms chicken products = instant win.

Good luck.

[Yamaneko]

saying "I'm a vegetarian but I eat fish" is like saying "I'm an atheist but I believe in God."
Or an agnostic period.

[-N-]

My parents are both veggies. The droughts destroyed my crops, though.

[Primus Inter Pares]

I'm good. :cool:
MP was the best triple meal I ever had.

[Rainecloud]

I tried it when I was younger, but it was just a phase.

Living without meat? Not for me, thanks.

[Neco Arc]

i dont get how you guys can regard tofu as a substitute for "meat"... It doesn't even taste like meat... It actually is made of soybean... I've eaten tofu Chinese style before... one style was done with mince meat, (real meat and not this random fake stuff) with a type of chinese paste and they also quite a lot of hot peppers... but the thing is that I actually liked it... The mince was nice and tofu "taste" totally gone... the texture was still there... another syle i tried was tofu as a dessert... they froze the tofu and added a lot of lemongrass and jelly... I thought it was disgusting but eh...

[Zeldy]

Never even considored it

[ScottNUMBERS]

If it's already dead you might aswell eat it.

[Rye]

I would like to become a vegetarian, because no one takes me seriously when I say that I'm against animal cruelty just because I eat meat (dontcha hate those type of people?), but it'd be hard. I like taquitos, quesadillas and chicken too much.

[Neco Arc]

dont forget this :choc2: , this :mog: and this :tonberry:

[Devourment]

You can't become a vegetarian, you either are one or you aren't.

[Anaisa]

I know a couple of vegaterians. Most of them have gotten to the point that they need medical assistance because they've not had meat products in so long that they're systems can't handle it.
It is completely impossible that your vegetarian freinds need medical assistance because they have not had meat products in so long. The reason why is because there is no nutrient in meat that cannot be obtained from a vegetarian diet and that is a fact. Your body is more suited to eating vegetarian food than it is meat because meat is not as easy for the body to process.

[Neco Arc]

It is completely impossible that your vegetarian freinds need medical assistance because they have not had meat products in so long. The reason why is because there is no nutrient in meat that cannot be obtained from a vegetarian diet and that is a fact. Your body is more suited to eating vegetarian food than it is meat because meat is not as easy for the body to process.

true for most except the meat and vegetable processing... It is actually around the same requirements to digest meat and vegetables... saliva contains enzymes which converts starch to sugar (mainly sucrose) once food has been inco-orperated into mouth... other starches are further broken down by acids, which in turn are further broken down (absorbed by bloodstream) by enyzmes given off in pancreas... remainder of material therefore cellulose and fibres are passed through lumen of small intestine, then passing through large intestine finally imerging out of the rectum (or anus) - cloaca in other egg laying vertebrates...
Meats on the other hand are mostly broken down, only in stomach (by pepsin and resin) and smaller intestine, hence only a slighly smalller amount of time to digest... in fact it is more possible that leaf matter is harder to digest as most plant material is not for digestion (with exceptions such as starch) but for "cleaning" the gut... As humans we, cannot digest cellulose however a majority of other grazing animals do... this is because the appendix of those animals contain cellulase secreting bacteria (enzmye that digest cellulose) which in turn break down cellulose...

hence it can be safe to say that plant material is not generally easier to digest than animal and fat material...

sorry if i went offtopic....

[ThroneofDravaris]

I was going to stop eating animals, but my protein substitute turned out to be impractical. I never knew how expensive it was to buy human infants on the black market…

[War Angel]

It is completely impossible that your vegetarian freinds need medical assistance because they have not had meat products in so long. The reason why is because there is no nutrient in meat that cannot be obtained from a vegetarian diet and that is a fact. Your body is more suited to eating vegetarian food than it is meat because meat is not as easy for the body to process.
Reply With Quote
True, except totally wrong. :)

[Anaisa]

true for most except the meat and vegetable processing... It is actually around the same requirements to digest meat and vegetables... saliva contains enzymes which converts starch to sugar (mainly sucrose) once food has been inco-orperated into mouth... other starches are further broken down by acids, which in turn are further broken down (absorbed by bloodstream) by enyzmes given off in pancreas... remainder of material therefore cellulose and fibres are passed through lumen of small intestine, then passing through large intestine finally imerging out of the rectum (or anus) - cloaca in other egg laying vertebrates...
Meats on the other hand are mostly broken down, only in stomach (by pepsin and resin) and smaller intestine, hence only a slighly smalller amount of time to digest... in fact it is more possible that leaf matter is harder to digest as most plant material is not for digestion (with exceptions such as starch) but for "cleaning" the gut... As humans we, cannot digest cellulose however a majority of other grazing animals do... this is because the appendix of those animals contain cellulase secreting bacteria (enzmye that digest cellulose) which in turn break down cellulose...

hence it can be safe to say that plant material is not generally easier to digest than animal and fat material...

sorry if i went offtopic....
Meat is not as easy for the body to process. Our colon is not able to pass meat through the body quick enough so that the meat does not have a chance to decay and the body does not absorb any of the toxins which this decaying meat produces. And the extra effort that is needed to do this requires the production of extra bile acids. One of these acids deoxycholic acid is converted by the bacteria clostridia in the stomach to a carcinogenic substance. That is why meateaters have such high levels of colon cancer as opposed to vegetarians. Also unlike meat eating animals that have intestines much shorter than ours so they can pass meat out of the body before it starts to decay and emit toxins we are not able to do that so again your body will be absorbing these toxins as the meat decays. Humans can digest cardboard but that doesn't mean we should eat it or that you are able to digest it well.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Dingo Jellybean : You have just lost at life. Commiserations.

O and for the record, despite us having problems digesting meat, we have twenty times as many problems digesting vegetables/plants, and we don't even get a sliver of the nutrients we need. Basically put eating meat not only rules, it's easier and good for you.

[Anaisa]

Dingo Jellybean : You have just lost at life. Commiserations.

O and for the record, despite us having problems digesting meat, we have twenty times as many problems digesting vegetables/plants, and we don't even get a sliver of the nutrients we need. Basically put eating meat not only rules, it's easier and good for you.
Well ive yet to come across any research as to how digesting vegetables / plants is harmful to us if you have then you should share it. And you haven't included any reasons as to why meat is "easier and good for you".

[Jess]

I tried being a vegitarian once, I think I lasted about a day. I enjoy meat to much.

[*__*)]

I too have tried to be a vegitarian. It is tough. My heart tells me to be a vegan. I've tried that, even used soy milk to replace cow milk.

[Lindy]

Vegans are attention-seekers.

[*__*)]

Actually, I'm pretty shy around people and try to avoid most social contact. I just feel that animals deserve more respect than what they are given. For example, I won't ride a horse, and I don't like horse racing, those beautiful creatures should not be exploited like that.

I'm a very sensitive and genteel person.

[Dingo Jellybean]

Fruits/Vegetables do have a lot of nutrients, but they also have a lot of fiber. I usually end up taking dumps 2-3 times a day since I eat so many apples and bananas. So vegetables/fruits are not as digestible as meats. But I am proud of my six-pack. Yes, vegetarians can have six-packs. I'd be happy to show you too, but I doubt many of you care. I cannot tell you how fast meat zaps away at a six-pack, it zaps away at a six-pack faster than everything except alcohol.

But I know vegetarians do not live longer than those who eat a more balanced diet of meat and fruits/vegetables, they usually live a few years shorter. But veggie burgers do have protein and such, and they aren't as bad as some people think. Mushrooms and onions do make a pretty tasty burger.

[Shoden]

How is fish meat?

I know lots of veggies who eat fish.


Being vegetarian aint a crime but it isn't completely smart for your health, it can lead to lots of digestive and kidney problems later in life.

[Necron]

There's no point in just saying one day
'Ooh i'm gonna become a vegetarian'
If you think killing animals is bad, then you becoming a vegetarian isn't going to stop people killing animals for food. I'm not saying been a vegetarian is bad or anything - because it isn't.

[eestlinc]

How is fish meat?

I know lots of veggies who eat fish.


Being vegetarian aint a crime but it isn't completely smart for your health, it can lead to lots of digestive and kidney problems later in life.
umm, fish are animals. eating fish is eating animal tissue. animal tissue is meat. it's basic biology. Animal Kingdom. Plant Kingdom.

[Anaisa]

Fruits/Vegetables do have a lot of nutrients, but they also have a lot of fiber. I usually end up taking dumps 2-3 times a day since I eat so many apples and bananas. So vegetables/fruits are not as digestible as meats. The more digestible something is the quicker its digested so the quicker its out of your system and part of the sewerage system!
But I know vegetarians do not live longer than those who eat a more balanced diet of meat and fruits/vegetables, they usually live a few years shorter. You do not know:eek:! vegetarians are scientifically proven to live longer than meat eaters.

[Sasquatch]

Do you have a source for this proof? Something you could post from credible research? Otherwise, it's simply what you say against what everybody else says, and we're obviously pretty sure of what we say.

[Tokki Wartooth]

Vegans are attention-seekers.
Of course, it can't be that they don't want to contribute to something awful happening in the world, or that they love and care about animals, or that they just want to be healthy, it must be that they want attention!

[Calliope]

Dingo: You're not really a vego, but you knew that. I hope you find the transition worth sticking to, though. Reducing cruelty in any form is splendiferous, and I wish more people would make the effort. You shouldn't be lacking in protein/omega everything cos of the fish [which aren't vegetables] so I don't think you should have a problem :) Oh, and if you have skin problems, up your zinc and magnesium.

Russell: AHAHA! You're great.

Amanda: You mean "forbidden beef" complex. Eeeew, tofu!

Chibi Youkai: That is quite possibly the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

Rye: Actually, it makes perfect sense. The meat, leather and wool industries are all buddy-buddy, so even if you, say, make a big fuss out of not wearing fur and leather because you're an animal rights activist, the creatures you are trying to save are going to end up as fodder anyway. If you cared enough about the animals, you wouldn't even think of eating them just because it's convenient for you.

TisWas: Let's call it a "transitional process", yes?

Anaisa: *high five*

ThroneofDravaris: Yeaaaaah, it can be pretty pricey, depending on what you want to eat. Luckily, my Nana works at the milk factory, and gets all the soy milk I want for a low low low price. Alright!

Maxx Power: Yeah, enjoy getting cancer and heart disease.

Lindy: LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! OH GOD WHY AREN'T YOU LOOKING AT ME?!

Necron: When are people going to realise there is a lot more to vegos than not wanting to kill animals?

[Neco Arc]

Meat is not as easy for the body to process. Our colon is not able to pass meat through the body quick enough so that the meat does not have a chance to decay and the body does not absorb any of the toxins which this decaying meat produces. And the extra effort that is needed to do this requires the production of extra bile acids. One of these acids deoxycholic acid is converted by the bacteria clostridia in the stomach to a carcinogenic substance. That is why meateaters have such high levels of colon cancer as opposed to vegetarians. Also unlike meat eating animals that have intestines much shorter than ours so they can pass meat out of the body before it starts to decay and emit toxins we are not able to do that so again your body will be absorbing these toxins as the meat decays. Humans can digest cardboard but that doesn't mean we should eat it or that you are able to digest it well.


i dont believe this... the reason are:
colon does not absorb anything... its primary function is a tube leading from the small intestine to the rectum and absorbing water...
This is from a definition from my Biology book:

colon (ko'-len) The tubular portion of the vertebrate alimentary tract between the small intestine and the anus; functions in water absorption and the formation of feces.

this proves that the colon has no use for absorbing food material that has passed through... It is mostly the job of the inner intestine...

Another phrase:

"Researchers spotlighted the importance of such proteins when they found that a hereditary defect in one of them is associated with a form of colon cancer. Apparently, this defect allows cancer-causing errors to accumulate in the DNA."

from this, it says colon cancer is mainly caused by a defect gene, hence not what has been eaten...

another thing.. yes its true that humans have a pretty short colon compared to animals, however the meat part is untrue. Yes meat does decompose in our colon, but so does vegetables. In fact it is the same rate that they decay, due to the bacteria that live in our colon. There are plant material which are undigested as well. In fact even more than animals. For example fibres and cellulose are not able to be digested but they also pass through the colon, and they help pass other undigested food we eat to be passed more easily. The main purpose to eat vegetables is to gain vitamins as well... how do i say... poop more easily...

one last thing... we cannot digest cardboard... it is impossible... For one thing cardboard is mostly cellulose and fibres... and if we could digest even a little bit of carboard... it would be harder for us to poop...

[Devourment]

Of course, it can't be that they don't want to contribute to something awful happening in the world, or that they love and care about animals, or that they just want to be healthy, it must be that they want attention!Regardless of being a Vegan or not animals are still going to be slaughtered. & you can't say that meat isn't healthy. I don't what meat you ever tried in the past. There's enough problems in the world already, we don't need people whining about how they're opposed to eating meat just because they read something in a book or hear something on the TV. Like I said, you either are one or you aren't.

[Neco Arc]

Regardless of being a Vegan or not animals are still going to be slaughtered. & you can't say that meat isn't healthy. I don't what meat you ever tried in the past. There's enough problems in the world already, we don't need people whining about how they're opposed to eating meat just because they read something in a book or hear something on the TV. Like I said, you either are one or you aren't.

true... law of the land... EAT or be EATEN...

[DK]

Meat is good. That's all I know, and all I care about.

Led ftw.

[DynasticJam]

I was never a vegetarian and I never will be, I like eating meat, nothing wrong with that!:D

[Rusty]

I have never considered and will never consider becoming a vegetarian. I love my lamb too much.

[Necron]

Of course, it can't be that they don't want to contribute to something awful happening in the world, or that they love and care about animals, or that they just want to be healthy, it must be that they want attention!

I think what she meant was 'People who suddenly say they're gonna be a vegetarian, and last for just a day or so, are attention seekers.'

[MecaKane]

No, he meant it in the rudest and in this case the mostly accurate way that vegans are attention-seekers.
Some more than others, for example people who push all their radical disgusting biggoted views, along with saying we're all savages for eating meat and cheese, on people for shock value.

[Spiffing Cheese]

I've been a vegetarian for a year. It's really not that hard.

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

Well ive yet to come across any research as to how digesting vegetables / plants is harmful to us if you have then you should share it. And you haven't included any reasons as to why meat is "easier and good for you".How about when that lovely plant that you are digesting is one that produces cyanide or some other lovely toxin.

People think being a vegatarian is good because you aren't hurting the plants. I say you are! Killing plants is just like killing animals! It is terrible and causes much pain. Vegatarians are just lazy and eat plants because they are sessile.

Everything is alive, you kill it to eat and that is that, the way of the world. Just we tend to kill too much of one thing resulting in decline in ecosystems, like the poor fish that many vegatarians still eat. You are so vialant! However, beef and chicken are not to products that the world is short of, neither is human meat. Commence the slaughtering!

[Anaisa]

Do you have a source for this proof? Something you could post from credible research? Otherwise, it's simply what you say against what everybody else says, and we're obviously pretty sure of what we say.
Yeah Im sure if you take a look on the net you will find research but as thats not where I get my info from thats why I haven't posted any links. And ive fully explained the reasons behind what I say unlike the meat chompers. And most of what ive said you wouldn't even need to look up on the net or anywhere else it should be common knowledge to people what their food contains and what it doesn't.

[Sasquatch]

A lot of things are common knowledge. I consider it common knowledge that plant matter is more difficult to digest. Which is why many herbivorous animals, birds especially, have a functioning gizzard. Humans don't have gizzards. We also only have one stomach. Have you ever seen horse manure? You notice all the pieces of grass and hay sticking out of it? That's because it hasn't all been digested. Now, what credible sources do you have that meat is so much worse for us than plant matter?

[Rye]

A lot of things are common knowledge. I consider it common knowledge that plant matter is more difficult to digest. Which is why many herbivorous animals, birds especially, have a functioning gizzard. Humans don't have gizzards. We also only have one stomach. Have you ever seen horse manure? You notice all the pieces of grass and hay sticking out of it? That's because it hasn't all been digested. Now, what credible sources do you have that meat is so much worse for us than plant matter?

Of course it is. Plants are harder to digest because they have cell walls instead of just a cell membrane like protein has, so it's harder to digest. Most of the plants we eat aren't digested fully at all.

[Anaisa]

A lot of things are common knowledge. I consider it common knowledge that plant matter is more difficult to digest. Which is why many herbivorous animals, birds especially, have a functioning gizzard. Humans don't have gizzards. We also only have one stomach. Have you ever seen horse manure? You notice all the pieces of grass and hay sticking out of it? That's because it hasn't all been digested. Now, what credible sources do you have that meat is so much worse for us than plant matter?
I just offered you a source you could try using to get the information the internet. And I explained as of why I haven't posted links myself. Another reason is that im sure that whatever I found would go into great detail and be very lengthy so I doubt any of the meat eaters here would bother to read it anyway. And as for comparing us to animals and the plant matter they eat you cannot class the vegetables we eat in with the diffrent plant matter animals eat as what they eat can so greatly vary to what we eat and there is such a wide variety of animals that don't consume meat and they can have a hugely diffrent diet from one to the other. And these animals can vary so greatly. But if thats what you want to do then why don't you compare your jaws to that of a carnivorous animal or your stomach acids or your intestines? And then consider how suited you are to eat meat.

[Reine]

I find vegetarians laughable. No matter what you eat, its dead lifeforms. All animals kill other things and eat them. Its just natural. Trying to escape from that is foolish.

[Anaisa]

How about when that lovely plant that you are digesting is one that produces cyanide or some other lovely toxin.

People think being a vegatarian is good because you aren't hurting the plants. I say you are! Killing plants is just like killing animals! It is terrible and causes much pain. Vegatarians are just lazy and eat plants because they are sessile.

Everything is alive, you kill it to eat and that is that, the way of the world. Just we tend to kill too much of one thing resulting in decline in ecosystems, like the poor fish that many vegatarians still eat. You are so vialant! However, beef and chicken are not to products that the world is short of, neither is human meat. Commence the slaughtering!
Plants have no central nervous system so do not suffer pain like animals do. And if somebody eats fish they are not a vegetarian.

[Winter Nights]

Meat is good. That's all I know, and all I care about.
Same here. Alot of people try to go vegetarian.. Few can make such a transition. I couldn't do it.

[Spiffing Cheese]

People think being a vegatarian is good because you aren't hurting the plants. I say you are! Killing plants is just like killing animals! It is terrible and causes much pain. Vegatarians are just lazy and eat plants because they are sessile.

"Vegetarians don't love animals, they just hate plants". :p

[Sasquatch]

I just offered you a source you could try using to get the information the internet. And I explained as of why I haven't posted links myself. Another reason is that im sure that whatever I found would go into great detail and be very lengthy so I doubt any of the meat eaters here would bother to read it anyway. And as for comparing us to animals and the plant matter they eat you cannot class the vegetables we eat in with the diffrent plant matter animals eat as what they eat can so greatly vary to what we eat and there is such a wide variety of animals that don't consume meat and they can have a hugely diffrent diet from one to the other. And these animals can vary so greatly. But if thats what you want to do then why don't you compare your jaws to that of a carnivorous animal or your stomach acids or your intestines? And then consider how suited you are to eat meat.

We're omnivorous. That means we eat both meat and plant. Our jaws, teeth, etc. aren't typical of just carnivorous or just herbivorous animals, as we are both.


Plants have no central nervous system so do not suffer pain like animals do. And if somebody eats fish they are not a vegetarian.

That's why we kill them before we cook and eat them. Nobody says "Oh hey look, a cow, let's torture it before we eat it!"

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

Plants have no central nervous system so do not suffer pain like animals do. And if somebody eats fish they are not a vegetarian.'Hi Mr. Cripple, you do not feel any pain so therefore it is fine to kill you and eat you, I hope that is alright,' said Chef.
'Of course it is,' replied Mr. Cripple.

That is just not right, I do not see the need for pain as a definition of what I can eat and what I cannot. Plants are still alive, they might well have a conscious and a soul, how are we meant to tell? Plants still get killed for food and if they don't you are eating their strach stores (that is like stealing) or eating their babies :( Just like animals.

Pain has nothing to do with it, animals just have a superiority complex.

[Sasquatch]

I would post a joke about eating vegetables, but I don't think it would be appreciated here.

[Anaisa]

We're omnivorous. That means we eat both meat and plant. Our jaws, teeth, etc. aren't typical of just carnivorous or just herbivorous animals, as we are both.
Yes we can be omnivorous but we can also be herbivorous if we so choose and are body is no less suited to being a herbivore.

Nobody says "Oh hey look, a cow, let's torture it before we eat it!" That's why we kill them before we cook and eat them. Actually not all animals are killed before they're cooked and eaten. Lobsters are cooked whilst still alive. And I did not say that animals were tortured before they were killed. I said they felt pain. And how exactly are you suggesting that these animals are killed pain free? Have you not seen or heard of any of the methods that are used to kill these animals? Electrocution for example? You think thats pain free do you? And there are people who look at an animal and think "lets torture it". Don't believe me? have you ever heard of an organization called the rspca?

[Kamiko]

There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. It's cool.
I'm one so I guess I would be biast. :kaohappy:

[Lindy]

Actually not all animals are killed before they're cooked and eaten. Lobsters are cooked whilst still alive. And I did not say that animals were tortured before they were killed. I said they felt pain. And how exactly are you suggesting that these animals are killed pain free? Have you not seen or heard of any of the methods that are used to kill these animals? Electrocution for example? You think thats pain free do you? And there are people who look at an animal and think "lets torture it". Don't believe me? have you ever heard of an organization called the rspca?
Yes, the RSPCA frequently goes to slaughter houses and rescues the animals from "cruelty".

Do you even KNOW how animals are killed?

Lobsters are thrown into boiling water because it is actually the most humane way to kill them, they die instantly in the boiling water, so it's rather a stupid example when you're just pointing out how quickly they ARE killed. They're not cooked whilst alive, they die before they even start to do so.
Most cows go down to a captive bolt gun to the head, kills them instantly, they feel nothing.
Pigs are knocked out via electrocution and then killed, again designed so they feel nothing.

Lets put this simply.

The animals humans eat are bred purely for eating, they exist for no other purpose and if we did not eat meat, they would not exist. It's not as if people are running around and shooting animals they see just to eat them, the animals killed for our food are brought into this world purely for that reason.

I doubt you'd see pigs and cows as they are today if they hadn't been bred that way, so why is it horrible cruelty to kill animals to eat them if the animals we eat exist only for that purpose?

[Anaisa]

Yes, the RSPCA frequently goes to slaughter houses and rescues the animals from "cruelty".
I never said they did.But actually as it happens the RSPCA do visit farms.
Do you even KNOW how animals are killed?
Do I even know how animals are killed? you mean do I even know how they are killed in a slaughter house? the answer to that is quite obviously yes. An answer you would actually know if you read my message before attempting to reply to it.
Lobsters are thrown into boiling water because it is actually the most humane way to kill them, they die instantly in the boiling water, so it's rather a stupid example when you're just pointing out how quickly they ARE killed. They're not cooked whilst alive, they die before they even start to do so.
Most cows go down to a captive bolt gun to the head, kills them instantly, they feel nothing.
Pigs are knocked out via electrocution and then killed, again designed so they feel nothing. Oh really? so you've asked the animals themselves have you? because thats the only way you could know unless you've actually been through it yourself and have now been reincarnated.



The animals humans eat are bred purely for eating, they exist for no other purpose and if we did not eat meat, they would not exist. It's not as if people are running around and shooting animals they see just to eat them, the animals killed for our food are brought into this world purely for that reason. Animals were here before human beings human beings did not create them so they would exist without us eating them . So whether now human beings would make the decision to kill them all if they weren't going to be eaten is irrelevant it only goes to show just how selfish most human beings are.And you think they exist for no other purpose but to feed you, but thats certainly not the way the animal feels. No animal is brought into this world to feed human beings thats just the way an immoral human being chooses to look at it.

I doubt you'd see pigs and cows as they are today if they hadn't been bred that way, so why is it horrible cruelty to kill animals to eat them if the animals we eat exist only for that purpose?
They do not exist to feed human beings there were animals before there were humans if they existed only for us to eat that wouldn't have been the case.

[CaZ!]

saying "I'm a vegetarian but I eat fish" is like saying "I'm an atheist but I believe in God."
No its not because its not inhumanley treat the way other meat is and plus if they can't eat fish then there totally restricting themselves of certain things they need in their diet

[Anaisa]

What eestlinc meant by that is that you cannot call yourself a vegetarian and eat fish because its a contradiction just like it would be saying your an atheist but you believe in God. The definition of vegetarian is: "a person who consumes a diet that excludes meat and fish".

[Brian The Pink Shark]

good luck, i recently became a vegetarian myself, its not that hard really, but it requires will power :choc:

[Sasquatch]

Not again.


Do I even know how animals are killed? you mean do I even know how they are killed in a slaughter house? the answer to that is quite obviously yes. An answer you would actually know if you read my message before attempting to reply to it.

His (obviously correct) response to you was that animals aren't tortured to death, they are humanely killed with as little pain as possible. The only exception I've seen to this is when meat is Koshered. Which is pretty damn sick, I think, but hey, to each his own.


Oh really? so you've asked the animals themselves have you? because thats the only way you could know unless you've actually been through it yourself and have now been reincarnated.

You don't have to talk to somebody to figure out when they die, do you? They've actually researched this -- to quell arguments from bleeding-hearts such as yourself -- and found that the lobster dies almost immediately from shock, prettymuch. Not to mention, if it's not killed this way, the meat is poisoned.


Animals were here before human beings human beings did not create them so they would exist without us eating them . So whether now human beings would make the decision to kill them all if they weren't going to be eaten is irrelevant it only goes to show just how selfish most human beings are.And you think they exist for no other purpose but to feed you, but thats certainly not the way the animal feels. No animal is brought into this world to feed human beings thats just the way an immoral human being chooses to look at it.

If not for human interference, most of these animals wouldn't exist. You think a cow would survive in the wild? That's one of the problems with Evolutionism, but still -- either way, there's no way a giant chunk of meat with nearly no defense mechanisms would survive without human interference. That's pretty obvious. Leave a hamburger on a mousetrap, set it in front of your dog, and see how long it lasts. As for "the way the animal feels", most people believe that they don't have emotions. Physical nerves and feelings, yes, but not emotional feelings.

But yes, they DO only exist for us to eat. If we didn't eat them, we wouldn't have raised them, which means they would have had to survive on their own, which means they, well, wouldn't be around anymore.

[Lindy]

Oh really? so you've asked the animals themselves have you? because thats the only way you could know unless you've actually been through it yourself and have now been reincarnated.

Read it again. Killed INSTANTLY. Instant meaning, death at a snap, if it's INSTANT then they can't feel anything. Left your reading glasses at home today did we?


Animals were here before human beings human beings did not create them so they would exist without us eating them . So whether now human beings would make the decision to kill them all if they weren't going to be eaten is irrelevant it only goes to show just how selfish most human beings are.And you think they exist for no other purpose but to feed you, but thats certainly not the way the animal feels. No animal is brought into this world to feed human beings thats just the way an immoral human being chooses to look at it

They do not exist to feed human beings there were animals before there were humans if they existed only for us to eat that wouldn't have been the case.
Animals existed before us, yes, farm animals did not. The animals we eat were bred from wild animals purely for the purpose of eating. Again, lost your reading glasses? I'd clearly started that part.

You know, I have no problem with vegetarians and vegans.

I have problems with people like YOU, people who state that eating plants are a better food source than meat, or that anyone who eats meat is immoral and selfish. It's rubbish, I don't rag on your life choice to not eat meat, yet you complain at mine? How exactly is anyone else eating meat affecting you? It shouldn't weigh on your conscience if you're not doing so, why are you so against it?

[Maxico]

If not for human interference, most of these animals wouldn't exist. You think a cow would survive in the wild? That's one of the problems with Evolutionism, but still -- either way, there's no way a giant chunk of meat with nearly no defense mechanisms would survive without human interference. That's pretty obvious. Leave a hamburger on a mousetrap, set it in front of your dog, and see how long it lasts. As for "the way the animal feels", most people believe that they don't have emotions. Physical nerves and feelings, yes, but not emotional feelings.

But yes, they DO only exist for us to eat. If we didn't eat them, we wouldn't have raised them, which means they would have had to survive on their own, which means they, well, wouldn't be around anymore.

They would still around. Farmers have selectivly bred the most docile and largest wildlife to make farming easier and more profitable. Look at other close relatives to cattle like Buffalo and Bison. They seemed to be able to look after themselfs without human intervention (Go irony!).

So say you selectivly bred a breed of Humans that were incapable of looking after themselves. Does that make it right to kill them, seeing as you created them after all?

[Anaisa]

Not again.




His (obviously correct) response to you was that animals aren't tortured to death, they are humanely killed with as little pain as possible. The only exception I've seen to this is when meat is Koshered. Which is pretty damn sick, I think, but hey, to each his own.Humanely killed? Look up the definition of humane and you'll see how obviously incorrect you are.

You don't have to talk to somebody to figure out when they die, do you? No but you have to experience pain for yourself before you can say what it feels like.
They've actually researched this -- to quell arguments from bleeding-hearts such as yourself -- and found that the lobster dies almost immediately from shock, prettymuch. Not to mention, if it's not killed this way, the meat is poisoned. And you consider that to be humane? how do think they die of shock? You will only die of shock after experiencing trauma so it doesn't matter how long it takes them to die the fact is that they've suffered.



If not for human interference, most of these animals wouldn't exist. You think a cow would survive in the wild? That's one of the problems with Evolutionism, but still -- either way, there's no way a giant chunk of meat with nearly no defense mechanisms would survive without human interference. That's pretty obvious. As I said before animals existed before us they do not need us to survive. If cows were left to live in fields as they are now but were not being killed they would not all die out.
As for "the way the animal feels", most people believe that they don't have emotions. Physical nerves and feelings, yes, but not emotional feelings. Thats obviously nonsense animals interact with each other if they had no emotions or feelings they would not do this. And there are animals that live in groups that will protect and care for each other and they mourn just like we do if one them is killed.

But yes, they DO only exist for us to eat. If we didn't eat them, we wouldn't have raised them, which means they would have had to survive on their own, which means they, well, wouldn't be around anymore. Ill say it again. Animals existed without us before and they could quite easily exist without us again.

[Dreddz]

Meat is too tasty to give up, even if I do think eating animals is wrong ....

[Little Miss Awesome]

No its not because its not inhumanley treat the way other meat is and plus if they can't eat fish then there totally restricting themselves of certain things they need in their diet
That's not true at all, they can substitue the protein from meat with nuts and other things of that nature. So a vegetarian or even a vegan diet doesn't mean people have to get rid of things they NEED in their diets!

[Anaisa]

Read it again. Killed INSTANTLY. Instant meaning, death at a snap, if it's INSTANT then they can't feel anything. Left your reading glasses at home today did we?
Im at home, I don't wear glasses, nor do I need to. And it would take more than glasses to make you see clearly. I would suggest you should read it again but I know that you still wouldn't be able to grasp the concept no matter how many times you read it that you cannot say that their deaths are painfree and instant because YOU do not know that it is.
Animals existed before us, yes, farm animals did not. The animals we eat were bred from wild animals purely for the purpose of eating. Again, lost your reading glasses? I'd clearly started that part. Again don't wear glasses. Whether you take a wild animal and choose to breed from it and then kill it is irrelevent. It is wrong, that animal does not belong to you, or at least it shouldn't. What makes you think human beings should have the right to capture a group of animals and then raise them to slaughter them? If I captured a group of people and kept them in my house and gave them food etc and then killed them and ate them how would that mean that they couldn't survive without me? they'd have been surviving perfectly well without me in the first place and could quite easily do so again.


You know, I have no problem with vegetarians and vegans.

I have problems with people like YOU, people who state that eating plants are a better food source than meat, or that anyone who eats meat is immoral and selfish. It's rubbish, I don't rag on your life choice to not eat meat, yet you complain at mine? How exactly is anyone else eating meat affecting you? It shouldn't weigh on your conscience if you're not doing so, why are you so against it? Im against it because I care about these animals which you are eating. If I killed somone you cared about and ate them you would complain about it too.

[DK]

Im at home, I don't wear glasses, nor do I need to. And it would take more than glasses to make you see clearly. I would suggest you should read it again but I know that you still wouldn't be able to grasp the concept no matter how many times you read it that you cannot say that their deaths are painfree and instant because YOU do not know that it is.

'kay, so I take it you WERE a lobster in a former life and you WERE boiled and you DO know it hurts right? Because if you weren't, your arguement is exactly the same as Lindy's. Theres no way you can say that it DOES hurt and that it DOESN'T kill instantly, 'cause you don't know.



Im against it because I care about these animals which you are eating. If I killed somone you cared about and ate them you would complain about it too.

'kay so while you're at it why not stop every animal that eats meat on the planet from eating the other animals so we can all live in harmony. Two quid says the first Lion you walk upto and ask to stop eating buffalos rips your face off. This is a natural process. People eat things to survive. Meat and Animals are another form of food. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it right or wrong.

[Anaisa]

'kay, so I take it you WERE a lobster in a former life and you WERE boiled and you DO know it hurts right? Because if you weren't, your arguement is exactly the same as Lindy's. Theres no way you can say that it DOES hurt and that it DOESN'T kill instantly, 'cause you don't know.
No I wasn't a lobster in a former life but I don't need to have been to say that boiling water being poured over you hurts I think everyone would agree with me on that. Where as if I said pouring boiling water over you doesn't hurt somehow I don't think anybody would believe me. Unless I was talking about a lobster in which case the majority would agree. No I don't know whether they are killed instantly but thats not my point whether they are killed instantly or not I still think its wrong.



'kay so while you're at it why not stop every animal that eats meat on the planet from eating the other animals so we can all live in harmony. Two quid says the first Lion you walk upto and ask to stop eating buffalos rips your face off. This is a natural process. People eat things to survive. Meat and Animals are another form of food. A lion needs to eat meat to survive, we do not.
Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it right or wrong. You could say that about everything the murderer or the rapeist could say "just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it right or wrong". If I killed a human being and ate them the majority would think I was wrong. If it was an animal they'd see no problem with it. You cannot have empathy for something or someone until you put yourself in its place and most humans are unable to do that with animals hence them eating them. For showing empathy towards an animal im wrong? I know im not.

[Anaisa]

i dont believe this... the reason are:
colon does not absorb anything... its primary function is a tube leading from the small intestine to the rectum and absorbing water...
This is from a definition from my Biology book:
I never said the toxins were absorbed through the colon but that the colon does not pass the meat through quickly enough so that the toxins don't have chance to be absorbed.





Another phrase:

"Researchers spotlighted the importance of such proteins when they found that a hereditary defect in one of them is associated with a form of colon cancer. Apparently, this defect allows cancer-causing errors to accumulate in the DNA."

from this, it says colon cancer is mainly caused by a defect gene, hence not what has been eaten...
It says that this defect is associated with a form of colon cancer not that this is the only cause or the only form.



one last thing... we cannot digest cardboard... it is impossible... For one thing cardboard is mostly cellulose and fibres... and if we could digest even a little bit of carboard... it would be harder for us to poop... My point was that altho we could eat cardboard it would not at all be digested well and it would not be a good idea to eat it. Like meat.

[DK]

No I wasn't a lobster in a former life but I don't need to have been to say that boiling water being poured over you hurts I think everyone would agree with me on that. Where as if I said pouring boiling water over you doesn't hurt somehow I don't think anybody would believe me. Unless I was talking about a lobster in which case the majority would agree. No I don't know whether they are killed instantly but thats not my point whether they are killed instantly or not I still think its wrong.

Yeah, having boiling water poured over you would hurt. However, if you're killed instantly, you're not going to feel the pain. This is what happens to Lobsters. Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, and if you think it's wrong then thats your belief and that's fine. I don't see why if you believe in it yourself and are happy with yourself why you then feel the need to make other people change their belief that there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Let people get on with their own lives.


A lion needs to eat meat to survive, we do not. You could say that about everything the murderer or the rapeist could say "just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it right or wrong". If I killed a human being and ate them the majority would think I was wrong. If it was an animal they'd see no problem with it. You cannot have empathy for something or someone until you put yourself in its place and most humans are unable to do that with animals hence them eating them. For showing empathy towards an animal im wrong? I know im not.

Yeah, so what? A Lion was just an example. A large percentile of animals on this planet eat meat, and if they wanted to they could survive on the nutrients in fruits and plants just like we could. Hunting and eating meat is natural to them and it's natural to humans in the same way. We're all mammals here. I don't think Sharks have much empathy for the few humans they like to chow down on. And where did I or anyone else say you were wrong for showing empathy towards animals? Theres nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to eat meat because you don't think it's right that animals are supposed to be killed for food, then that's fine. Just don't try and force your belief on other people, or tell us what we're doing is wrong just because you don't like/agree with it, because that IS wrong. Live your life your own way, let other people live their life theirs.

Meh. I'm not supposed to post serious things.

[Rye]

Yeah, having boiling water poured over you would hurt. However, if you're killed instantly, you're not going to feel the pain. This is what happens to Lobsters. Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, and if you think it's wrong then thats your belief and that's fine. I don't see why if you believe in it yourself and are happy with yourself why you then feel the need to make other people change their belief that there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Let people get on with their own lives.



Yeah, so what? A Lion was just an example. A large percentile of animals on this planet eat meat, and if they wanted to they could survive on the nutrients in fruits and plants just like we could. Hunting and eating meat is natural to them and it's natural to humans in the same way. We're all mammals here. I don't think Sharks have much empathy for the few humans they like to chow down on. And where did I or anyone else say you were wrong for showing empathy towards animals? Theres nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to eat meat because you don't think it's right that animals are supposed to be killed for food, then that's fine. Just don't try and force your belief on other people, or tell us what we're doing is wrong just because you don't like/agree with it, because that IS wrong. Live your life your own way, let other people live their life theirs.

Meh. I'm not supposed to post serious things.

Of course you are, you're the self-comtemplation emo ranger. :p

[Captain Maxx Power]

I always say, I'll listen to your opinion, but I won't always appreciate it. Like I've said for years : If you're a vegetarian, you're not a revolutionary. You're not on some crusade against the evils of meat eating, you're not making a statement, you're not going to change the world, and you're not going to make a huge impact on the way in which the world operates. All you're doing is forcing your body to work overtime to digest all that cellulose and other unwholesome nutrients associated with plants. You want to do that, then that's fine, but like Kyono says, don't go shoving your moralisitic clap-trap down the rest of our throats. I like meat, meat is my favourite food, and I really don't care what poor suffering the animal went through, because it's my life as far as I'm concerned humans are at the top of the food chain, so no matter how the organism lived previously, it's death means I can continue on living. Are you really going to deny it it's last purpose in life, or are we leaving it for the bacteria now? You want those shift-eyed single-cellers to win? Because I sure don't!

[raskerino]

Yeah, so what? A Lion was just an example. A large percentile of animals on this planet eat meat, and if they wanted to they could survive on the nutrients in fruits and plants just like we could. Hunting and eating meat is natural to them and it's natural to humans in the same way. We're all mammals here. I don't think Sharks have much empathy for the few humans they like to chow down on. And where did I or anyone else say you were wrong for showing empathy towards animals?

Justed wanted to interject here, because while I eat meat I don't think this point helps your argument. It feels to me like you're saying that because some death occurs for animals it's okay for us to kill for food too, which I can't agree with. You can never say some wrong justifies more. I know that's not what you meant, because you don't think it's wrong but this point seemed to be argueing something different, argueing that it was okay, because other animals do it too. Just don't think this fits your argument very well, and felt like pointing it out.

Edit: And I think some of Maxx Power's post said this perfectly (the first half of the post, the rest I find much harder to agree with).

[DK]

What I was trying to say was I don't get why it's wrong for humans to eat meat when other living creatures do it also. As far as I'm concerned we're all animals on this planet, even humans, no matter how much more advanced our species may or may not be. We still have animalistic instincts, and we still have animalistic qualities. Hell, we have teeth purely designed for tearing meat. Just because we know we can survive eating nothing but vegetables doesn't mean we should.

[Anaisa]

Yeah, having boiling water poured over you would hurt. However, if you're killed instantly, you're not going to feel the pain. This is what happens to Lobsters. What your saying goes against all the studies I have ever come across even those who believe they don't feel pain admit they do not die instantly. They agree that the lobster does not die instantly but they say that they cannot feel pain because their brains are too small and rudimentary. And that when they thrash around in the water thats just a reflex... It has been proven in studies that lobsters do infact respond to pain.
Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, and if you think it's wrong then thats your belief and that's fine. I don't see why if you believe in it yourself and are happy with yourself why you then feel the need to make other people change their belief that there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Let people get on with their own lives. As ive already said if something or someone is made to suffer that i care about im not going to just say "oh well, if someone wants to make them suffer thats their choice"



Yeah, so what? A Lion was just an example. A large percentile of animals on this planet eat meat, and if they wanted to they could survive on the nutrients in fruits and plants just like we could. No actually they couldn't animals have evolved to eat what they do.
Hunting and eating meat is natural to them and it's natural to humans in the same way. We're all mammals here. I don't think Sharks have much empathy for the few humans they like to chow down on. Hunting and eating meat is not natural to humans if that were the case humans would have a far more carnivorous physiology.
And where did I or anyone else say you were wrong for showing empathy towards animals? Theres nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to eat meat because you don't think it's right that animals are supposed to be killed for food, then that's fine. Just don't try and force your belief on other people, or tell us what we're doing is wrong just because you don't like/agree with it, because that IS wrong. Live your life your own way, let other people live their life theirs.
You said just because "I don't agree with it doesn't make it right or wrong" hence me saying that me showing empathy towards animals is right and causing suffering to them is wrong. And im not trying to force my beliefs on other people your stateing your argument for eating meat and im stateing mine for not doing so nobodys trying to force their beliefs on anyone else and if they are then their wasting their time.

[Reine]

Just...SHUT UP people.

It's obvious the other side couldnt care less about the other, so why bother? No one will win. Youve turned the thread into something completely different, ald however amusing it is to see these pointless arguments, its also annoying.

Take it elsewhere please.

When did you become a Mod? Do not take on moderating duties again until you are. Use the warn button. ~ Leeza

[Meat Puppet]

All this talk about me is making my ego swell. :cool:

[ShunNakamura]

*cracks knuckles*

I will so have fun with this.

You say we are meant to be herbivores because of our body build. I say we are meant to be omnivores because we exhibit builds from all three(pure meat, pure omnivore, pure vegetarian). We are not one of them, we are all three. Humans are highly versitile. That is how we ended up where we are. We can live nearly anywhere. And we can eat a little bit of everything and live adequetly.

Now looking at our teeth. Humans have some meat cutting teeth. Not as prominent as other species, but bear in mind the percentage of meet in our diet isn't specified as high as theirs. But we also have the flat molars whereas many meateaters don't. Why? Perhaps cause we eat both? We chew instead of gulp... well I guess psyc could have programed us to gulp meat and chew plants.. but why not always chew so no mistake is made? The enzymes in the mouth being aimed at plants. Plants take longer to digest so it makes sense to start as fast as possible. Meat breaks up quickly and thus you want to be ready to absorb before breaking it down, so in other words after you are done chewing. All of it makes sense to me.

No claws? who says we were meant to take down bison? Last I checked two of the healthiest meats for people are fish and small poultry. And you know what? We dont' need claws to take them down. A good comparsion are dog nails. Dogs eat small animals(mostly rabits and such but they will eat poultry) but do you know how much damage thier nails actually do? Nothing that is what. I have even had a wild species of dog(the NGSD) with uncut nails, claw me up.. no more damage then long grown out human nails do. Dogs I know need meat in thier diet and thier nails won't kill anything(generally) so our weak nails isn't teastament for not being a meat eater.

Now as a last bit I will actually cite some evidence, unlike some.



NEWS RELEASE, 6/14/99

Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet

By Patricia McBroom, Public Affairs


BERKELEY-- Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods, according to a physical anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley.

It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain, said Katharine Milton, an authority on primate diet.

Without meat, said Milton, it's unlikely that proto humans could have secured enough energy and nutrition from the plants available in their African environment at that time to evolve into the active, sociable, intelligent creatures they became. Receding forests would have deprived them of the more nutritious leaves and fruits that forest-dwelling primates survive on, said Milton.

Her thesis complements the discovery last month by UC Berkeley professor Tim White and others that early human species were butchering and eating animal meat as long ago as 2.5 million years. Milton's article integrates dietary strategy with the evolution of human physiology to argue that meat eating was routine. It is published this month in the journal "Evolutionary Anthropology" (Vol.8, #1).

Milton said that her theories do not reflect on today's vegetarian diets, which can be completely adequate, given modern knowledge of nutrition.

"We know a lot about nutrition now and can design a very satisfactory vegetarian diet," said Milton, a professor in the Department of Environmental Science, Policy & Management.

But she added that the adequacy of a vegetarian diet depends either on modern scientific knowledge or on traditional food habits, developed over many generations, in which people have worked out a complete diet by putting different foods together.

In many parts of the world where people have little access to meat, they have run the risk of malnutrition, said Milton. This happened, for instance, in Southeast Asia where people relied heavily on a single plant food, polished rice, and developed the nutritional disease, beriberi. Closer to home, in the Southern United States, many people dependent largely on corn meal developed the nutritional disease, pellagra.

Milton argues that meat supplied early humans not only with all the essential amino acids, but also with many vitamins, minerals and other nutrients they required, allowing them to exploit marginal, low quality plant foods, like roots - foods that have few nutrients but lots of calories. These calories, or energy, fueled the expansion of the human brain and, in addition, permitted human ancestors to increase in body size while remaining active and social.

"Once animal matter entered the human diet as a dependable staple, the overall nutrient content of plant foods could drop drastically, if need be, so long as the plants supplied plenty of calories for energy," said Milton.

The brain is a relentless consumer of calories, said Milton. It needs glucose 24 hours a day. Animal protein probably did not provide many of those calories, which were more likely to come from carbohydrates, she said.

Buffered against nutritional deficiency by meat, human ancestors also could intensify their use of plant foods with toxic compounds such as cyanogenic glycosides, foods other primates would have avoided, said Milton. These compounds can produce deadly cyanide in the body, but are neutralized by methionine and cystine, sulfur-containing amino acids present in meat. Sufficient methionine is difficult

to find in plants. Most domesticated grains - wheat, rice, maize, barley, rye and millet - contain this cyanogenic compound as do many beans and widely-eaten root crops such as taro and manioc.

Since plant foods available in the dry and deforested early human environment had become less nutritious, meat was critical for weaned infants, said Milton. She explained that small infants could not have processed enough bulky plant material to get both nutrients for growth and energy for brain development.

"I disagree with those who say meat may have been only a marginal food for early humans," said Milton. "I have come to believe that the incorporation of animal matter into the diet played an absolutely essential role in human evolution."

Milton's paper also demonstrates that the human digestive system is fundamentally that of a plant-eating primate, except that humans have developed a more elongated small intestine rather than retaining the huge colon of apes - a change in the human lineage which indicates a diet of more concentrated nutrients.

###

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Also this site(I haven't read all of it yet) seems to be a good source. Dunno what its conclusion is yet though.

I don't care if you argue whether you should eat it now or even if it is unheathy to eat it processed. But to say our bodies aren't built for it is an absurbity that I can not believe one would make.

[Tokki Wartooth]

Regardless of being a Vegan or not animals are still going to be slaughtered. & you can't say that meat isn't healthy. I don't what meat you ever tried in the past. There's enough problems in the world already, we don't need people whining about how they're opposed to eating meat just because they read something in a book or hear something on the TV. Like I said, you either are one or you aren't.
They are only slaughtered because there is a consumer market for it. By being a vegetarian/vegan there becomes less of a market. If everyone was a vegetarian/vegan, hypothetically, there would be no market for it, and slaughterhouses would go out of business.

Lean meat is healthy in moderation, but not as healthy as fruits and vegetables in any-ation.

You don't what meat I eat in past, is okay, yes.

People less ignorant would argue that humans being excessively cruel to animals is an issue today, and a major one.

etc etc etc. I don't know why I bother to post stuff like this. If you are depraved enough, then do what you will.

edit ShinNakamura; There was a reason our neandrathal ancestors had a gall bladder, an appendix, and sharp eye teeth. It was to aid the process of eatong meat, no doubt. But we've evolved boyond that, and we no longer require meat in our diet.

[Sasquatch]

They are only slaughtered because there is a consumer market for it. By being a vegetarian/vegan there becomes less of a market. If everyone was a vegetarian/vegan, hypothetically, there would be no market for it, and slaughterhouses would go out of business.

Hypothetically, yes. But that's extremely unrealistic. I'm sure world peace and an end to poverty would be nice, too, but it ain't gonna happen.


Lean meat is healthy in moderation, but not as healthy as fruits and vegetables in any-ation.

Not true. Lean meat is healthy, period. True, if you base your entire diet off meat, you won't be able to get EVERY nutrient you need, but you could live just fine for quite some time. Hell, liver has more vitamins and minerals than you could imagine. And some fruits and vegetables, if you base your diet entirely off them (or fruits and vegetables as a whole), you wouldn't get everything you need. So fruits and vegetables are healthy, yes, but no more healthy than lean meat, honestly.


People less ignorant would argue that humans being excessively cruel to animals is an issue today, and a major one.

People less arrogant would argue that humans being excessively cruel to animals is nowhere near a major issue today. Mind your tongue.


edit ShinNakamura; There was a reason our neandrathal ancestors had a gall bladder, an appendix, and sharp eye teeth. It was to aid the process of eatong meat, no doubt. But we've evolved boyond that, and we no longer require meat in our diet.

Another problem with Evolutionism. What evolved first, the diet or the "equipment"? Why would humans evolve different organs to digest different foods? Why would humans evolve different diets to be better digested by their organs?

[eestlinc]

man, who cares? eat whatever you want to eat, be healthy or not. trying to convince people to stop being stupid is a fool's errand. don't waste your energy.

and stop flaming each other.

[Hawkeye]

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/4296/bigpot68ld.jpg
Now I'm going to eat a hamburger now, possibly three

[ShunNakamura]

edit ShinNakamura; There was a reason our neandrathal ancestors had a gall bladder, an appendix, and sharp eye teeth. It was to aid the process of eatong meat, no doubt. But we've evolved boyond that, and we no longer require meat in our diet.


We have evolved beyond it, eh? Well how come a few will get sick from a purely veg diet? It ain't the majority but I have seen some who suffered from it.

Many dog people I have spoken with say that dogs have evolved beyond needing large amounts of real meat in thier diets. And while many can easily survive that way, some will get dreadfully sick. Put them on a meat rich diet and viola they are fine health wise for the most part. Which is evidence enough in my eyes that dogs are supposed to eat meat, and I see this in some people as well.

If we have evolved beyond that, why is fish still considered such a healthy food? It does alot of good for us. Pretty much the same with poultry.

So basically,

Yes many can live on it.. but the fact that some get sick when they don't eat meat and the fact that our bodies and the like seem to be geared towards at least some meat consumption and that our closest realitives(or at least one of them) has some meat in thier diet seems to be a good incentive that we aren't truely evolved beyond that.

Fight against the cruelty of the factories if you like, but just remember that cruel factories != meat eating. Trying to convert everyone to vegetarianism to fight the factories is hardly the best way to go about that task. Not to mention I don't care for the way you all(generalizing since I have seen many do it) go about it.

[Reine]

man, who cares? eat whatever you want to eat, be healthy or not. trying to convince people to stop being stupid is a fool's errand. don't waste your energy.

and stop flaming each other.

:thumb: What I was trying to say

Do not moderate posts. ~ Leeza

[Anaisa]

*cracks knuckles*

I will so have fun with this.

You say we are meant to be herbivores because of our body build. I say we are meant to be omnivores because we exhibit builds from all three(pure meat, pure omnivore, pure vegetarian). We are not one of them, we are all three. Humans are highly versitile. That is how we ended up where we are. We can live nearly anywhere. And we can eat a little bit of everything and live adequetly.
Humans have none of the distinguishing anatomical characteristics that either carnivores or even natural omnivores do.

Now looking at our teeth. Humans have some meat cutting teeth. Not as prominent as other species, but bear in mind the percentage of meet in our diet isn't specified as high as theirs. But we also have the flat molars whereas many meateaters don't. Why? Perhaps cause we eat both? We chew instead of gulp... well I guess psyc could have programed us to gulp meat and chew plants.. but why not always chew so no mistake is made? The enzymes in the mouth being aimed at plants. Plants take longer to digest so it makes sense to start as fast as possible. Meat breaks up quickly and thus you want to be ready to absorb before breaking it down, so in other words after you are done chewing. All of it makes sense to me.
Meat is not passed through the intestines or the colon quick enough so that it does not have a chance to decay and you do not have the chance to absorb harmful bacteria and toxins. The undigestible plant matter is not harmful to you it is actually good for you.

No claws? who says we were meant to take down bison? Last I checked two of the healthiest meats for people are fish and small poultry. And you know what? We dont' need claws to take them down. A good comparsion are dog nails. Dogs eat small animals(mostly rabits and such but they will eat poultry) but do you know how much damage thier nails actually do? Nothing that is what. I have even had a wild species of dog(the NGSD) with uncut nails, claw me up.. no more damage then long grown out human nails do. Dogs I know need meat in thier diet and thier nails won't kill anything(generally) so our weak nails isn't teastament for not being a meat eater.
Dogs jaws and teeth are strong enough to take down their prey yours are not.

Now as a last bit I will actually cite some evidence, unlike some.




Also this site(I haven't read all of it yet) seems to be a good source. Dunno what its conclusion is yet though.

I don't care if you argue whether you should eat it now or even if it is unheathy to eat it processed. But to say our bodies aren't built for it is an absurbity that I can not believe one would make. If you'd much prefer to hear the facts from somewhere else then fine, you can look here.http://www.animalvoices.org/vegetarian.htm

[escobert]

meat is yummy yummy for my tummy!

[xX.Silver.Wings.Xx]

well. I never eat sea food. but cuttin out meat altogether... hmmm.. well my mum cooks all my food so it wont be too hard. I don't really feel like it though

[Anaisa]

We have evolved beyond it, eh? Well how come a few will get sick from a purely veg diet? It ain't the majority but I have seen some who suffered from it.
No person can get ill due to cutting meat out of their diet as ive said before there is no nutrient in meat that cannot be obtained from a vegetarian diet. That is a FACT. And have you not heard of BSE? There are no lethal diseases killing vegetarians due to not eating meat. But theres a disease that can kill you because of consuming it.
Many dog people I have spoken with say that dogs have evolved beyond needing large amounts of real meat in thier diets. And while many can easily survive that way, some will get dreadfully sick. Put them on a meat rich diet and viola they are fine health wise for the most part. Which is evidence enough in my eyes that dogs are supposed to eat meat, and I see this in some people as well. As ive already said you won't get ill because you don't eat meat.Ive already explained why above. Humans do not have a carnivore physiology if we had to eat meat then we would have.

If we have evolved beyond that, why is fish still considered such a healthy food? It does alot of good for us. Pretty much the same with poultry. Vegetables are considered healthy but that doesn't mean that every life form is going to evolve to eat them.

So basically,

Yes many can live on it.. but the fact that some get sick when they don't eat meat and the fact that our bodies and the like seem to be geared towards at least some meat consumption and that our closest realitives(or at least one of them) has some meat in thier diet seems to be a good incentive that we aren't truely evolved beyond that. I don't think I need to comment on the getting sick as ive already done it once in this post already. And no our bodies are not geared towards meat consumption compare the physiology of a human to a natural omnivore, carnivore, or herbivore and you'll find we are far more typical of a herbivore.

Fight against the cruelty of the factories if you like, but just remember that cruel factories != meat eating. Trying to convert everyone to vegetarianism to fight the factories is hardly the best way to go about that task. Not to mention I don't care for the way you all(generalizing since I have seen many do it) go about it.
We are not trying to convert everyone into a vegetarian we are well aware that we would be wasting our time. We don't expect you all to wake up with a conscience for what your doing anytime in the near future, distant future, or even at all.

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

edit ShinNakamura; There was a reason our neandrathal ancestors had a gall bladder, an appendix, and sharp eye teeth. It was to aid the process of eatong meat, no doubt. But we've evolved boyond that, and we no longer require meat in our diet.Wrong. Your appendix is, thought to be, the organ that would have produced cellulase to digest plants better. It is inherited from our herbivore ancestors and is now pretty much useless as the appendix seems to do nothing but get infected now-a-days. Thus it would be conclusive to say that we have evolved into omnivores rather than evolved away from eating meat.

[Sasquatch]

We are not trying to convert everyone into a vegetarian we are well aware that we would be wasting our time. We don't expect you all to wake up with a conscience for what your doing anytime in the near future, distant future, or even at all.

Makes sense. So you're not saying, "This is evil, and you should stop," only "this is evil, and we just wanted to let you know." Of course you're better than us because you don't eat meat, who would question that? You are caring and compassionate, while us evil meat-eaters are bloodthirsty and inhumane. Happy now? Good, now drop it.

[Tokki Wartooth]

Wrong. Your appendix is, thought to be, the organ that would have produced cellulase to digest plants better. It is inherited from our herbivore ancestors and is now pretty much useless as the appendix seems to do nothing but get infected now-a-days. Thus it would be conclusive to say that we have evolved into omnivores rather than evolved away from eating meat.
Except that's nothing but a theory. And our ancestors weren't herbivores, in any case. Even Australopithecus, existing almsot 4.2 million years ago, scavenged for meat (and only scavenged because humans are too weak to kill their own prey without tools). So, y'know, what you're saying doesn't really work.

[War Angel]

It is inherited from our herbivore ancestors
They had sharp teeth, made tools for killing and cutting animals, used fire to cook meat... I'd say they were meat-eaters, if anything. That is, not to say they didn't plants too - just that they did, beyond any doubt, eat meat.

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

Look back further. Hebrivores > carnivores > omnivores.

[Chaos]

My boyfriend has become a vegetarian. The folks at PETA got to him, and now all he does is preach about how wrong it is to eat meat.

I tell him to shut up because I can't hear myself chew my steak.

Chaos

[ShunNakamura]

Gah.. Now that I look back at my post I realize I mentioned linking the site but never did... Go shun?

You say we aren't omnivores? Science says we are-


Evidence of Humans as Omnivores
Archeological Record

As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants.
Cell Types

Relative number and distribution of cell types, as well as structural specializations, are more important than overall length of the intestine to determining a typical diet. Dogs are typical carnivores, but their intestinal characteristics have more in common with omnivores. Wolves eat quite a lot of plant material.
Fermenting Vats

Nearly all plant eaters have fermenting vats (enlarged chambers where foods sits and microbes attack it). Ruminants like cattle and deer have forward sacs derived from remodeled esophagus and stomach. Horses, rhinos, and colobine monkeys have posterior, hindgut sacs. Humans have no such specializations.
Jaws

Although evidence on the structure and function of human hands and jaws, behavior, and evolutionary history also either support an omnivorous diet or fail to support strict vegetarianism, the best evidence comes from our teeth.

The short canines in humans are a functional consequence of the enlarged cranium and associated reduction of the size of the jaws. In primates, canines function as both defense weapons and visual threat devices. Interestingly, the primates with the largest canines (gorillas and gelada baboons) both have basically vegetarian diets. In archeological sites, broken human molars are most often confused with broken premolars and molars of pigs, a classic omnivore. On the other hand, some herbivores have well-developed incisors that are often mistaken for those of human teeth when found in archeological excavations.
Salivary Glands

These indicate we could be omnivores. Saliva and urine data vary, depending on diet, not taxonomic group.
Intestines

Intestinal absorption is a surface area, not linear problem. Dogs (which are carnivores) have intestinal specializations more characteristic of omnivores than carnivores such as cats. The relative number of crypts and cell types is a better indication of diet than simple length. We are intermediate between the two groups.
Conclusion

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns.

And here is the page I meant to link earlier http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml


Now as for other responses


Dogs jaws and teeth are strong enough to take down their prey yours are not.

First I must ask what is human prey? I am of the mind it is small birds(poultry) and fish. Both of which we have strong enough hands and jaws to take apart. You only need the tools to take down your prey. We don't need dog jaws because we have other means of taking down our prey. What about primates? They eat meat(at least some of them do) they can take down thier prey with out dog jaws and teeth?


Vegetables are considered healthy but that doesn't mean that every life form is going to evolve to eat them.

Yes but they are healthy to humans, just as fish is. Fish is really really good for humans. Health wise I have been told I would be less ill if I were to eat more fish and poultry. Wrestling coaches I have been with put people on poultry-fish diets to maintain strength. Actually they told me not to eat red meat cause it would be a deterent to my strength. And in wrestling your goal is to be as strong as humanly possible. So why wouldn't they put you on a pure vegen diet if that was best?


As ive already said you won't get ill because you don't eat meat.Ive already explained why above. Humans do not have a carnivore physiology if we had to eat meat then we would have.

Well tell that to the doctors and physcians that I have heard say that.
Vitimin B12 is difficult to maintain on pure plants. And was supposedly impossible in earlier times, thus that is more evidence that we are omnivores by nature. Now we have supplements and enriched veggies that take care of the deficiency but you still have to be sure you get it. Else wise you may get sick, it may take you 20+ years to display any harm but it can still happen. Some get sick from lack of b12 in a years time. Not to mention other things that humans obtain from meat naturally and don't need enriched foods or supplements or current tech and the like for.


Humans have none of the distinguishing anatomical characteristics that either carnivores or even natural omnivores do.

Many primates are omnivores.... we have similar traits to them no? We also have cababilities to digest both meat and plants thus making it fairly obvious we are omnivores by nature.


And yes I have read your site. However, I don't trust it due to it being A) against most scientific evidence I have read and studies I have read from sources I know to be realiable.
B) Just like in most cases evidence can go either way. Meaning you can suit evidence for us being omni, carni, or vegi. So if the site is to be realiabe it must mention that we display similarities to all of them and that the facts can go either way. And they must give kudos to thier oposition. I am in Comp I and we are taught that any paper that doesn't discuss or at least mention the opponnents points and or strenghts is not a paper that should be heeded. Once again... It is simply I do not feel the source is something to trust. The sight above I trust more then others because it comes accross as more accurate(even though some of what it and the site it is on says kinda isn't what I would prefer to hear).

[Sasquatch]

Actually, if we ate only meat, but many different kinds of meat (as carnivores do), we would survive just fine, as we could get any and all needed nutrients. As I mentioned before, the liver alone contains more nutrients, vitamins, and minerals than you could imagine. Sure, we'd have some problems, just like if we tried living off plant matter alone, but we could pull it off just as easily.

[Anaisa]

Makes sense. So you're not saying, "This is evil, and you should stop," only "this is evil, and we just wanted to let you know." Of course you're better than us because you don't eat meat, who would question that? You are caring and compassionate, while us evil meat-eaters are bloodthirsty and inhumane. Happy now? Good, now drop it.
Yes I do think its evil and should stop and I will say so. You will attempt to slate vegetarians knowing that your not going to convert us all to meat eating but you continue to try and do so. I do not think by me saying how bad meat eating is that it will change the mind of someone who is strongly for eating meat. What frequently does tho is when these meat eaters visit a slaughter house. Ive even spoken to several butchers who are vegetarians! Who have said to me that once they saw first hand what goes on with the meat they didn't want to eat it anymore. And no I won't drop it. Why should I? your speaking for your cause and im speaking for mine.

[The Jamie Star Scenario]

I do not think anyone is trying to convert vegetarians to meat eaters, I know I wasn't. I was just highlighting the fact that all the arguements for becoming a vegetarain-like better diet and we are actually herbivores and that is why most humans eats both meat and veg.-are fundementally flawed. The only good arguement is because you want to eat only vegetable, not some daft science reason or that eating animals is cruel.

Anyway, this is so off topic, why hasn't this been closed yet?

[Leeza]

Yes, this has gone way off topic and I will close this thread if it continues on like this. I have said it before in another thread, there is nothing that anyone can say about how wrong they think vegetarianism is that will outweigh the reasons why someone is a vegetarian. I don't even understand why you feel that you should try to do so.

If people don't start to listen here instead of just trying to be heard, I will close this.

[ShunNakamura]

Well I know this is somewhat off topic but:

How many times has this thread been closed already? I could have sworn I saw closed on it once or twice at least.... I am begining to get really really confused:confused: .... Open Close Open Close Open... now close? aHhhhH. Are you people trying to play with my mind!!?

Now onto the simi-topic:

As for visiting meat at the slaughter. I got freinds and the like that slaughter thier own meat. They are big meat eaters. I have seen photos, video clips, etc of slaughter houses. The only ones that would make me want to stop eating meat(and since I rarely eat beef except when mother makes it it doesn't bother me much at all) are the ones about inhuman conditions. Which should stop anyways thus making it a moot point in my opinion.

Now onto the real topic(maybe maybe not):

Soy Burgers last I checked were actually pretty good. And the High School uses them instead of real burgers. Anyways that was a bad ditch at the original topic but meh, it may help.

[Yamaneko]

I don't think most meat-eaters are trying to "convert" (haha) vegetarians. They just want to be left alone and not told that they're "murdering" (haha) animals through their consumption of meat products. This is as bad as telling someone that their religion is wrong and that their own is the only right one. Worship or eat whatever the hell you want.

I agree with Leeza, though. Stop bickering.

[Tokki Wartooth]

Actually, if we ate only meat, but many different kinds of meat (as carnivores do), we would survive just fine, as we could get any and all needed nutrients.
If one could "survive fine" without vitamins B1, C or E (since carnivores produce these vitamins internally, and we are not carnivores). I'll be there pointing and laughing at you in the hospital when you have scurvy!

Um. Yeah. I like soy burgers too.

[RPJesus]

saying "I'm a vegetarian but I eat fish" is like saying "I'm an atheist but I believe in God."
Sort of, but it depends what you believe, really. I'm vegetarian, and I don't eat fish, but I'm not bothered about it. I don't have much against killing little animals (I think we've already established this, though. Sorry?). Fish aren't a big deal. They live a free life, so it's fine. The only problem with it is that certain types are running out. I don't eat fish just becaus it's easier. Maybe if I start eating fish, I'll be tempted to chicken. And then pomeranion. And it works its way up from there. Eventually to popes and vikings 'cause I figure they're the best.

[Dingo Jellybean]

As a vegetarian, I don't hold anything against meat-eaters to be perfectly honest.

I don't look at meat eaters as murderers and such. I do think it's important to eat a little bit of meat (maybe 3-4 servings a week) in conjunction with a mostly vegetarian diet. But I'm a vegetarian because I do care about my overall health, but at the same time I am very compassionate about animals. Unfortunately I do not own any animals as I am very allergic to them. I've taken Claritin and it never helps. It's not just the fur either, there's just something with animals that makes me feel miserable (physically, not emotionally).

Iron and zinc are very important to one's diet, but I'll stick with my multi-vitamin for now. I know supplements are not nearly as good as a natural source, but for a vegetarian diet that includes fish, it's the next best alternative.

As for people who criticize me for eating fish, I never said I never expected that. I do realize that pesco-vegetarianism is debatable as a vegetarian diet. I do limit my fish intake and I do buy fish-oil supplements instead, as I eat fish maybe once or twice a week. Then again, I'm not sure how fish-oil is actually extracted from the fish, but I assume it's probably no better than eating fish itself. But Omega-3 has been proven to help one's own health. But I know flaxseed is full of O3, but I can't seem to find it around me. Some bread like Baker's Inn has O3 in it too, which I might buy since they make good bread.

As for the whole meat debate as to whether we can or able or evolved from being herbivores, I don't know. Our teeth are definitely able to grind meat and there is evidence to show that our teeth evolved that way. At the same time there are vegetation out there that we consume that would be impossible to grind without the very same teeth used to grind meat, so you can debate this till you're green in the face.

But I will say this though, meat eaters (strictly) have MUCH higher rates of constipation than those who eat at least a mild serving of vegetables and fruit. It tells me the body can absorb much of the meat and break it down so our body can use whatever it digests, but just because your body can digest it doesn't mean it's good for you.

Not just skin health that has led me to vegetarianism, but physical and overall health. I have a much easier time maintaining my six-pack in my pesco-vegetarian diet than I do eating meat. Whenever I'm tempted to eat meat I do one thing: I lift up my shirt and look in the mirror and say "God, I'm probably a narcist for doing this but look at that 6 pack...do I want to throw something that 90% of the population wants away by eating that 2 lb. angus burger?"

Okay, maybe it's an odd way to stay pesco-vegetarian, but it works! Besides, anyone conscious about their health has to be a little bit of a narcist.



Not true. Lean meat is healthy, period. True, if you base your entire diet off meat, you won't be able to get EVERY nutrient you need, but you could live just fine for quite some time. Hell, liver has more vitamins and minerals than you could imagine. And some fruits and vegetables, if you base your diet entirely off them (or fruits and vegetables as a whole), you wouldn't get everything you need. So fruits and vegetables are healthy, yes, but no more healthy than lean meat, honestly.


That's very false. You can go to www.webmd.com (a site edited by certified doctors and physicians) and see for yourself. Lean meat is healthy to an extent. Liver itself can be very toxic to people, mainly because of it's high vitamin A count. Of course you would have to eat certain kinds of liver, like those from sled dogs to be overdosed in vitamin A. Fruits and vegetables themselves are proven cancer and disease fighters. Lean meats are just lower in "bad" cholesterol and saturated and trans fats. You can say Reduced Fat Cheez-Its are healthy by the same argument. Just because something is low fat and low cholesterol does not make it healthy. And no doctor will tell you that you don't have enough lean meats in your diet if your cholesterol is high.

One more thing. I never liked steak. Even when I was eating meat, I avoided steak because it just doesn't taste that good. I never saw anything in it and while people would throw $20 to eat it. I never understood people's obsession with it and I'll never will.

[ShunNakamura]

But I will say this though, meat eaters (strictly) have MUCH higher rates of constipation than those who eat at least a mild serving of vegetables and fruit. It tells me the body can absorb much of the meat and break it down so our body can use whatever it digests, but just because your body can digest it doesn't mean it's good for you.


True enough. But it is an indication that your body was meant to get something from it. Elsewise you wouldn't absorb as much as you do from meat. But as you said that doesn't always mean it is healthy. We could very well be meant to eat only one or two kinds of meats. Or perhaps like other primates our meat should be purely insects and the like. Lots of possibilites. All we know is we absorb much of what is in meat and that we use it in some way or another. That and some meats are better for us then others. Namely I see fish and poultry often listed as healthier meats. That and now that I remember insects are supposedly REALLY good for you as well.


Not just skin health that has led me to vegetarianism, but physical and overall health. I have a much easier time maintaining my six-pack in my pesco-vegetarian diet than I do eating meat. Whenever I'm tempted to eat meat I do one thing: I lift up my shirt and look in the mirror and say "God, I'm probably a narcist for doing this but look at that 6 pack...do I want to throw something that 90% of the population wants away by eating that 2 lb. angus burger?"

Okay, maybe it's an odd way to stay pesco-vegetarian, but it works! Besides, anyone conscious about their health has to be a little bit of a narcist.


Hey! In wrestling we are taught whatever it takes is what it takes. Just go and do it. Odd or no if it works it works and just do it.

As for six pack. Me? I could care less. I actually prefer it with my muscles being hidden by a thin(quite thin actually(or at least what used to be thin. Not sure if I have put on weight lately)) layer of fat. It is fun in wrestling. The guy will look at me(we do look one another over) and I can just see his thoughts going "this little pudgy guy is at my weight class? Heh this will be an easy one". For an average american I appear fairly thin. But for a wrestler I look quite heavy set. Then when we get out on the mat the guy realizes his six pack is no better then what muscle I have hidden under the fat. Works as a good opener. or finisher. I can just lead them astray thinking I am weaker then what I am and then smash them when thier gaurd falls. I still ain't sure why I got what muscle I do though. I am a computer geek. I don't work out, cept during wrestling season. So WHY do I got enough muscle to match power with a guy 20lbs or more heavier then me? Of course it only happens on the mat. But I am not very aggressive on the mat either. So why? Guh... I am rambling on. Forget I went astray.



One more thing. I never liked steak. Even when I was eating meat, I avoided steak because it just doesn't taste that good. I never saw anything in it and while people would throw $20 to eat it. I never understood people's obsession with it and I'll never will.

I don't really dislike steak. As long as it is only once in a while(once a month or two) then I like it just fine. But my body my mind/body will go bleec if people expect me to eat it two nights in a row or some such. Heck it does the same thing with hamburger. Turkey though I can eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, and eat. Which is why I think my weight bounced on me. I probably downed over 7lbs of turkey easy in one day a week or so ago. and I haven't checked my weight since then:greenie:.

However, 20$ is obscene. I definately would only eat it once in a blue moon at that price. And only then when my body gave me a craving for it. Heck, I don't eat cake a whole lot because my body does a tummy bounce when I think of it. And other times it will tell me to gobble it down. Coach thinks my body self-regulates itself since I almost always stay in the same weight range no matter what I eat. Thus if I need sugar my body tells me to eat cake or something like that. If however it doesn't need it that type of sugary food will make me throwup if I eat any more then a bit. Sucks too, cause I like cake:cry:


Edit- For fun I decided to quote from that WebMD site. I found it kind of funny.


Your current weight is higher than the scientifically established norms. This corresponds to a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 25. You should weigh no more than 155 pounds.

Your target weight is 155 pounds. Once you reach your desired weight, your new BMI will be 25, which is still higher than the norm. You should make a determined effort to achieve your initial target weight as a the first step towards good health.

heh, first they say I shouldn't weigh more then 155.. then they say when I drop down I will still be higher then the norm? Ah well, I can still overpower my friends, and that is fine with me.

and if my target weight is what I weigh when I actually exercise a bit


Your target weight is 145 pounds. Since your current weight is above the norms, it is advisable to lose some weight. Once you reach 145 pounds, your new BMI will be 23.4 and you will be within the normal weight range.

I take it said the first one because I am right on the line. But I dunno. I found it funny. maybe I just got a weird since of humour?

[ThroneofDravaris]

ThroneofDravaris: Yeaaaaah, it can be pretty pricey, depending on what you want to eat.

Wow, I really hope you misinterpreted my post...