Feedback

[Dr Unne]

There was a time when we didn't have a lot of threads discussing sexual techniques in graphic detail and the warts that grow on people's genitals and what sort of porn people prefer. I think those were better times. There was also a time when EoEO was a good place to ask for advice and opinions, believe it or not. This place once helped me through some bad times. I don't think anyone in their right mind would seriously expect to get good advice from EoEO at this point, unless "lolz threesoem" is your idea of good advice.

This place has never been what I'd call "mature", but that's OK; it was good-natured immaturity, at least. I don't remember there being this level of "let's wallow in our own crapulence" sort of immaturity on such a large scale. There are some people who enjoy discussing anything in public, including the intimate details of their bodily functions and sex lives etc. There are some people who are extremely private. There's a middle ground, and you're nowhere near it.

This is feedback in the sense that I'm telling you what I think, not in the sense that I expect anything to change.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I actually find myself in agreement with yourself, some of the threads I've seen of late I would probably close personally, but I am not because most other moderators don't seem to see the problem with them.

[crono_logical]

I agree, but Cid has said otherwise as far as I remember, so yeah :p

[Shlup]

Seems like the advice people get when they ask for it is sound. When isn't it? When newbies post "lolz" and then get a two week ban? Can't really stop that, except to give them an EoEO ban, which they get, so there you go.

As for the level of conversation, if you don't want to hear about genital warts then you probably shouldn't click a thread entitled "Eyes on STDs." EoEO is for serious discussion, and I think members should feel comfortable bringing up something they want to discuss seriously. Being shot down just because this serious matter involves your penis or that serious matter is something some people may not feel comfortable with is counter-productive to the whole point of having a members-only forum for serious discussion.

[Psychotic]

As for the level of conversation, if you don't want to hear about genital warts then you probably shouldn't click a thread entitled "Eyes on STDs." So, upon reading the first post (before anyone else had posted because I am supa-fast) I thought to myself I wonder who the first person to post "If you don't like hearing about things like this, then don't read threads about them!" will be, and I figured straight away it'd be Shlup. Thanks for not letting me down. :)

I have yet to see any advice I'd consider stupid in EoEO (Not that I'm a frequent visitor there of course, I don't want to tarnish my rep) and if there are any stupid posts, the offender has been banned.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I think a large part of it has to do with the intent behind the thread, which can be difficult to judge at times. Where does one draw the line? Is it a post about sex to get away with it, or is it a genuine question?

[Meat Puppet]

Didn't that guy leave EoFF forever, though?

[Dr Unne]

Seems like the advice people get when they ask for it is sound. When isn't it? When newbies post "lolz" and then get a two week ban? Can't really stop that, except to give them an EoEO ban, which they get, so there you go.

Ah, I didn't see that the "lolz threesoem" guy was banned. Yay for Leeza.


As for the level of conversation, if you don't want to hear about genital warts then you probably shouldn't click a thread entitled "Eyes on STDs." EoEO is for serious discussion, and I think members should feel comfortable bringing up something they want to discuss seriously. Being shot down just because this serious matter involves your penis or that serious matter is something some people may not feel comfortable with is counter-productive to the whole point of having a members-only forum for serious discussion.

Because you can always tell by the thread title, right? It could be "I have an STD, what should I do?" or "How do you deal with when your partner has an STD?". Or "I have a wart on my penis, describe yours", apparently.

There's the "If you don't like it, don't read it" option, and then there's the "If the majority of people don't want to read it, don't say it" option. Both have their benefits. Either way, I would be somewhat hesitant to use the word "serious" to describe many of the threads in EoEO at the moment.

I'm the master of giving people the "If you don't like it, leave". I just don't read 90% of the stuff on this MB, for the most part. That's always an option too. I'd like it if this was still a nice place to talk about things, that's all. In the meantime I exercise my right to avoid it most of the time.

Be glad I didn't play the "It's a family MB, there are children here" card. I could've easily.

[Winter Nights]

While I do agree that having the right to discuss adult topics seriously is a good thing, I also have to agree with Dr Unne that certain topics (for example, the Masterbation thread) seems to be there just for the sake of talking about it. Threads that would normally belong in Gen. Chat, due to their casual nature, but can't go there as they would be closed. EoEO is for serious discussions, if I recall. Just because you can chat un-childishly about your genitals, that doesn't make it a serious discussion.

[Shlup]

So, upon reading the first post (before anyone else had posted because I am supa-fast) I thought to myself I wonder who the first person to post "If you don't like hearing about things like this, then don't read threads about them!" will be, and I figured straight away it'd be Shlup. Thanks for not letting me down. :)
I got tired of having it used on me, so I just plain stole it. :D

Ah, I didn't see that the "lolz threesoem" guy was banned. Yay for Leeza.
Main problem with removing the "No EoEO For ME" title.


Because you can always tell by the thread title, right? It could be "I have an STD, what should I do?" or "How do you deal with when your partner has an STD?". Or "I have a wart on my penis, describe yours", apparently.
I was under the impression that he invited other people to discuss their STDs because he thought if he was just asking a question or talking about himself the thread would be closed. I took the thread to be of the "I think I have an STD, what should I do?" variety.

There's the "If you don't like it, don't read it" option, and then there's the "If the majority of people don't want to read it, don't say it" option. Both have their benefits. Either way, I would be somewhat hesitant to use the word "serious" to describe many of the threads in EoEO at the moment.
That could apply to entirely too many things, in any forum. I realize that freedom of speech is forfeit here, but I think there's a limit.


I'm the master of giving people the "If you don't like it, leave". I just don't read 90% of the stuff on this MB, for the most part. That's always an option too. I'd like it if this was still a nice place to talk about things, that's all. In the meantime I exercise my right to avoid it most of the time.
Yes, we'd all like it if EoFF was just how it was four or so years ago. Closing topics left and right isn't going to change it back. We still have time to inact the "ban all newbies" plan though.


Be glad I didn't play the "It's a family MB, there are children here" card. I could've easily.
I freaking hate it when people run with that, so thanks for not making me want to kill you today.

Seriously, it's okay to kick back a bit, people. You don't have to let the place go to hell but you can chill out a bit and not take things to seriously. You should all eat some Sean-pills and relax a bit. Make love, not war or something.

[Raistlin]

The title of the forum is "Eyes on Each Other." Therefore, the general flow of the threads will follow the ideas of the majority of the members (the ones that go into EoEO, anyway). Way back when, when EoEO was a "good place," as you called it, it was a smaller board and we genuinely had more interest in each other. I would also consider the maturity level higher. The maturity/interest level has fallen, therefore the quality of threads has fallen. The staff can't close serious threads because they don't like them. As long as they're within the rules, the members are free to discuss whatever they want to seriously.

So yeah. "If you don't like it, don't read it." For the most part, that's my decision. :)

[Del Murder]

We've been discussing it, and the threads are being closed when they get out of hand. I still think Eoeo is pretty good.

[Shlup]

I'm sure we were all so very mature four-five years ago. xD No, rather, I think that we're all older, and all the new members coming in are younger so there's a maturity gap. When we were teenagers, the members joining were teenagers. Now we're twenty-somethings and the members joining are still teenagers.

[Raistlin]

But we were so much cooler teenagers.

[Shlup]

Oh I don't doubt it.

[ThroneofDravaris]

This is exactly why some people are far too flippant when giving out EoEO bans. Sure if there was an abortion thread and someone simply posts ‘lol abortions rock’, by all means ban them. However, if you allow a thread entitled ‘Do you prefer Hentai or Porn?’ to remain open to begin with, you should perhaps be slightly more tolerant of the more ‘light hearted’ posts. In the end, what’s worse though? Someone who posts a few words as a joke, or someone who tries to force there beliefs and cultural identity onto those who disagree?

Expect more of the latter, now that you’ve combined EoEO with EoTW…

[Del Murder]

I find it very hard to force anything on anyone over the internet. Perhaps you can use the warn button when you think you see that kind of thing happening, and we'll look into it.

The current tolerance for spam in the Eoeo forum is strict for a reason.

[eestlinc]

I like the fact that we are able to discuss mature topics. How exactly would EoFF have been more mature if it didn't allow discussion of sex-related topics (in a mature forum)? Then when such threads are allowed, we become less mature? That's completely backwards.

Maybe if someone made a "my farts smell really horrible, do yours?" thread in EoEO you'd have an argument, but I think you are confusing censorship with maturity.

[ThroneofDravaris]

I find it very hard to force anything on anyone over the internet.

Exactly. It IS impossible to force your opinions on others over the internet. Thus, these posts are pointless and should be considered in the same category as spam.

[Winter Nights]

As I already stated, I have no problem with mature topics.. But, as stated there are some that feel like they belong in Gen. Chat, which brings me to my next question.. Are mature topics to be kept specifically in EoEO? Can't some go in Gen. Chat for the more casual discussion that some take?

[eestlinc]

I find it hard to take seriously anyone who posts stuff like this:

This is EoEO. It isn’t about winning, it’s about pretending that you have a point so you can secretly spam.
Speaking of which...

[Karl]

While I do agree that having the right to discuss adult topics seriously is a good thing, I also have to agree with Dr Unne that certain topics (for example, the Masterbation thread) seems to be there just for the sake of talking about it.
first thing i thought of when i read Dr Unnes post, and i agree, and also the hentai or porn thing is quite uncalled for, seems like in the short time i have been here EoEO has gone downhill fast, from serious conversation about emotional problems to crap that people seem to post just for fun thats too inapropriate for general chat

[Winter Nights]

But, my point is, if it must be there.. Why can't the more casual ones be in Gen Chat? EoEO is for serious topics, something that mature topics will not always be.

[Del Murder]

Exactly. It IS impossible to force your opinions on others over the internet. Thus, these posts are pointless and should be considered in the same category as spam.
You would have a point if it is obvious that this was the poster's intention instead of discussing the issue. It is hard to see that, but if you do see it please use the warn button.

Any questionable material you see at the forums can easily be looked into by staff if you use the warn button. It is a very useful tool. We are only human (well except kishi and Archie, but they don't go in eoeo), so we apologize if we cannot catch everything.

[Karl]

like Dr Unne said he doesnt expect anything to change and thats good cuz prolly nothing will, basically its up to the users who are mature enough and know better but as of the masterbation thread made by chris who is, i dunno how to say it, an experienced poster here? obviously you cant think the best of people. just because people know the rules doesnt mean they will folow them

[Big D]

I reckon it should be fine for people to discuss 'mature' topics, such as sexual matters, provided it's done in a suitably sensible manner. Cid has said he doesn't particularly mind sex discussions, and EoEO is the ideal place for a serious thread on those issues.Are mature topics to be kept specifically in EoEO? Can't some go in Gen. Chat for the more casual discussion that some take?EoFF strives to maintain a 'family-friendly' atmosphere... so sex discussions in GC wouldn't be appropriate, in my opinion. They'd get spammed up with innuendo and inappropriate garbage within miliseconds. At least people can be EoEO banned for messing up a thread that way; but with GC, spam is virtually inevitable. Under the 'family friendly' policy, I think it's fine if there's somewhere people can discuss sensitive issues in a mature fashion... but giving everyone a free ticket to spam the place with smut would be counterproductive.

[ThroneofDravaris]

I find it hard to take seriously anyone who posts stuff like this:

Speaking of which...

At least I’m honest about it :p

[Loony BoB]

I reckon it should be fine for people to discuss 'mature' topics, such as sexual matters, provided it's done in a suitably sensible manner. Cid has said he doesn't particularly mind sex discussions, and EoEO is the ideal place for a serious thread on those issues.
That pretty much says everything that needed to be said, in my opinion.

1) It's been given the OK by the big guy.
2) We only allow it if it's being discussed in a mature manner.
EDIT: 3) Murd also hit a strong point with the 'use the warn button' bit.

[MecaKane]

How exactly is talking about sex, stds and masturbation, in eoeo filtering out all the morons, not family friendly? It's not <i>elderly</i> friendly, is what it is. Families talk to their kids about sex, and if they don't it's better to learn it here from sexperts like Shlup than while you're putting your first condom on or something.

[Yamaneko]

If I had my way I'd ban about fifteen people right about now, but I don't so yeah. I'm probably just bitter, but discussion was a lot better a couple years ago.

[Leeza]

I was under the impression that he invited other people to discuss their STDs because he thought if he was just asking a question or talking about himself the thread would be closed. I took the thread to be of the "I think I have an STD, what should I do?" variety.
No where did I see him ask for help and if he did I would have closed it because we are not doctors and if he really has a problem he should see one instead of getting advice from members of an FF board.

To me, the last sentence in the post was an invitation for members to post about their STDs just to see who had what and is what prompted me to close it in the first place. It was not an invitation to discuss STDs for the sake of getting educated about their causes and prevention. Discussing sex and sexual related matters is fine. Getting into details of your own, just for the sake of it, is not in my opinion.

I agree with Yams.

[Hawkeye]

I really dont see the problem. Something changes and somebody else doesnt like it. Whats new?

[Dr Unne]

I realized today that EoFF is the only MB I frequent that would be too vulgar for me to browse at work, hence my inability to respond until now.


I reckon it should be fine for people to discuss 'mature' topics, such as sexual matters, provided it's done in a suitably sensible manner. Cid has said he doesn't particularly mind sex discussions, and EoEO is the ideal place for a serious thread on those issues.
That pretty much says everything that needed to be said, in my opinion.

1) It's been given the OK by the big guy.
2) We only allow it if it's being discussed in a mature manner.
EDIT: 3) Murd also hit a strong point with the 'use the warn button' bit.

Pretty sure I INVENTED the "Sean can turn this into a porn site if he wanted" line. I know that Sean certainly has the right to make EoFF however he likes, so I'm not sure why people keep saying that. You have no need to justify why things are the way they are.

I specified that I don't expect things to change due to my complaints. Just wanted to let you know that there are users (apparently not just myself) that don't like how things are here.

[Shlup]

No where did I see him ask for help and if he did I would have closed it because we are not doctors and if he really has a problem he should see one instead of getting advice from members of an FF board.
That could be said about any thread in EoEO.

Just wanted to let you know that there are users (apparently not just myself) that don't like how things are here.
That's not news.

[Big D]

A simple solution would be to check carefully before opening a thread - if the title suggests 'non work-safe' content, then don't open. Works for me.
I'd agree that staff need to be vigilant and merciless in closing non-serious threads on mature topics - 'good taste and common decency', and all that. Things have taken a turn for the worse over the last few years, with a general decline in the general quality of threads and posts... it'd be nice to return to that former level of class, but not at the expense of sacrificing legitimate discussion of serious issues such as STDs. Basically, I think it'd be good to clean the place up somewhat, but without stifling worthwhile debate.

[Loony BoB]

Big D, you said it so well. See my latest thread in the Staff Forum for where the ideal place would be to start such things.

[Shlup]

Best form of quality control is quantity control. Ban all newbies!

[Dr Unne]

A simple solution would be to check carefully before opening a thread - if the title suggests 'non work-safe' content, then don't open. Works for me.
I'd agree that staff need to be vigilant and merciless in closing non-serious threads on mature topics - 'good taste and common decency', and all that. Things have taken a turn for the worse over the last few years, with a general decline in the general quality of threads and posts... it'd be nice to return to that former level of class, but not at the expense of sacrificing legitimate discussion of serious issues such as STDs. Basically, I think it'd be good to clean the place up somewhat, but without stifling worthwhile debate.

I hesitated to use the words "common decency", but they are apt. "Class" is also apt. Yours is the response I'd hoped for. Thank you.

[XxSephirothxX]

Things have taken a turn for the worse over the last few years, with a general decline in the general quality of threads and posts... it'd be nice to return to that former level of class, but not at the expense of sacrificing legitimate discussion of serious issues such as STDs. Basically, I think it'd be good to clean the place up somewhat, but without stifling worthwhile debate.

I wasn't here a few years ago, so I can't really compare things the way they are now to the way they were a few years ago. But if there has indeed been a general decline in the number of quality posts and topics, what's the best way (if there's even a good way at all) to fix the problem? You can't just ban all stupid people, since no one would agree on who's stupid, and many mods spam or post informally just as much as regular members. I don't go in EoEo that often, and I haven't noticed a real problem there, but I wouldn't argue that the quality of EoFF as a whole could be improved.

[Loony BoB]

We can start by banning the usage of stupid images such as the 'o rly' owl. It's a start.

[Raistlin]

We can start by banning the usage of stupid images such as the 'o rly' owl. It's a start.
YES!!!:love: :love: :love:

[escobert]

I really haven't noticed a decline but, then again I try not to touch a serious topic with a 100 foot stick. :D I'm sure I've helped to the best of my ability to bring this place down :D. It's so wonderful.

[Big D]

It should be noted that things weren't always 'better' in the old days... joking about cannibalism isn't exactly 'good taste, high art' but Del Murder's "Pass the Bleys, please" is, arguably, one of the greatest threads in the Archive.

Improving EoFF should be about promoting positive, intellectually-engaging discussions - not simply banning one thing after another.

[eestlinc]

yea man, how <i>are</i> those iced coffee hot dogs?!

[Del Murder]

I have mine served with a side of kishi and a nice chilled rubah.

[Shlup]

I perfer Del Tacos. lolz

[eestlinc]

did you know soba is part of the rhubarb family, and not in fact a grain?

remember back in the day when you could take a thread off on a completely unrelated injoke tangent, and everyone either thought it was fun or just kept quiet? man those were the good old days.

[Del Murder]

People want to be part of the action, champ. You can't really blame them for that.

[Big D]

Uhm... wouldn't it be better to keep spammy staff in-jokes safely hidden in the staff forum? Y'know, what with the whole ''let's keep spam out of feedback and set a good example'' thing:p

[eestlinc]

the second half of my post was intended to show my awareness and guilt at having made a spammy off-topic in-joke, and by extension to point out that stupid stuff like that has been going on here forever. I wish people would stop glorifying the past.

[Shlup]

You're all fired. eest is fired twice.

[Loony BoB]

I glorify the past - what's so bad about that? Do you not praise good times? I'm not saying that these times aren't good at all, I'm just saying the past times were. Saying that it's bad to glorify the past is like saying it's bad to glorify Nelson Mandela's past. Just because he's still good now doesn't mean it's not worth praising him about him being good then, too. I've always been one to reject the "EoFF has lost it's magic" theory, so don't think I'm a bitter oldbie at all. I just think that the image is stupid and degrades EoFF with it's presence. The rest of EoFF is, in general, fantastic. Yes, it was good then, but just because it's still good now doesn't mean we should allow for the odd unflushed toilet to stink the place out.

[Psychotic]

I glorify the past - what's so bad about that? If you want to glorify the past, feel free to do so, just don't be surprised when a lot of other people don't want to, and don't like it when you do so.

When you talk about Britt et al it excludes the vast majority of members. It's just one more discussion they can't take part in. Perhaps their thoughts are something like this "Why doesn't the great Loony BoB pay attention to me instead of some guy who left years ago? What's wrong with me? Am I really that bad that he has to dig up corpses and love them instead?" And you claim to be a newbie lover...

Instead of glorifying the names of past members who probably couldn't care less about EoFF or think it's some immature pile of crap now, I'd much rather glorify members who are here now and care about the place.
I'm a bitter oldbieFuck context. :D

[Dr Unne]

I realize people have an automatic defense mechanism at this point (due to Raist no doubt) any time anyone mentions "The Past" but I think what I've said is far from "OMG BRING BAEK TEH EZBORD". It's ridiculous to assume that nothing can ever possibly change for the worse and to dismiss outright anyone who suggests that it may have.

[Loony BoB]

If you want to glorify the past, feel free to do so, just don't be surprised when a lot of other people don't want to, and don't like it when you do so.

When you talk about Britt et al it excludes the vast majority of members. It's just one more discussion they can't take part in. Perhaps their thoughts are something like this "Why doesn't the great Loony BoB pay attention to me instead of some guy who left years ago? What's wrong with me? Am I really that bad that he has to dig up corpses and love them instead?" And you claim to be a newbie lover...

Instead of glorifying the names of past members who probably couldn't care less about EoFF or think it's some immature pile of crap now, I'd much rather glorify members who are here now and care about the place.smurf context. :D
I miss Britt. :(

I love newbies. Sometimes they're actually not too scared to PM me! Apparently I'm very intimidating or something. Never did understand that. Oh well!

I mention newbies all the time. Especially in the Warned Members List. :D

[Flamethrower]

If you want to glorify the past, feel free to do so, just don't be surprised when a lot of other people don't want to, and don't like it when you do so.

When you talk about Britt et al it excludes the vast majority of members. It's just one more discussion they can't take part in. Perhaps their thoughts are something like this "Why doesn't the great Loony BoB pay attention to me instead of some guy who left years ago? What's wrong with me? Am I really that bad that he has to dig up corpses and love them instead?" And you claim to be a newbie lover...

Instead of glorifying the names of past members who probably couldn't care less about EoFF or think it's some immature pile of crap now, I'd much rather glorify members who are here now and care about the place.smurf context. :D

It's not like the "super oldbies" are the only people who talk about the past often. I see the "newer oldbies" talk about Katoryn (spel?), ff_babe, Baloki, ect as often as I see the "old oldbies" talk about Britt, Bleys, ect. Members who joined after they were banned and/or left can't participate in discussions about them. Talking about the past is fun, and everybody does it. I think it's dumb to be mad or feel left out just because you can't participate in a certain discussion.

[eestlinc]

The past always seems better because we forget all the bad things and recall the good things. The present seems worse because we can see the good and the bad right in front of us. That doesn't mean the present can't actually be worse, but often that perception is misleading.

[Madonna]

I just preferred past company. Today sucks as much as it did two years ago, which is to say it's not enough to make me leave yet.

I agree that the level of maturity of EoEO suffers and that we should try to raise it somehow, but then I realize that anything I post in there is tainted by association with those other threads and/or turned into a discussion on how America sucks.

Ban everyone who registered this year, unless they have a Knight's stamp of approval? :D?

:|

[eestlinc]

at least Feedback is returning to its Oldbie Haven status.

[Loony BoB]

Y'no, that just made me realise that there isn't really any major elitist spinoff board for EoFF anymore. They're all either entirely seperate, not elitist or else they're just gone/dead. Back in the day, we had elitist spinoff boards. As annoying as they could be, it feels like EoFF is missing that snarky little brother.

[Old Manus]

We can start by banning the usage of stupid images such as the 'o rly' owl. It's a start.
<img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> <img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> <img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> RAISTLIN SUCKS!!! <img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> <img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"> <img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif">?

[Raistlin]

I realize people have an automatic defense mechanism at this point (due to Raist no doubt) any time anyone mentions "The Past" but I think what I've said is far from "OMG BRING BAEK TEH EZBORD". It's ridiculous to assume that nothing can ever possibly change for the worse and to dismiss outright anyone who suggests that it may have.
With Bleys gone, someone has to keep them on their toes. :D


Y'no, that just made me realise that there isn't really any major elitist spinoff board for EoFF anymore. They're all either entirely seperate, not elitist or else they're just gone/dead. Back in the day, we had elitist spinoff boards. As annoying as they could be, it feels like EoFF is missing that snarky little brother.
Good point. This is why, once Kossage and I get it started up again, all the oldbies should go to tGA.

[edczxcvbnm]

Here is a late suggestion that might have been suggested. Have an Adult sub-forum so people can talk about how far they shoot their load so the rest of the people who don't want to talk about it or read don't have to. Seems to work pretty well over at fools gold...when fools gold is around.

[Leeza]

I think this thread is way off topic now.

[Del Murder]

The past always seems better because we forget all the bad things and recall the good things. The present seems worse because we can see the good and the bad right in front of us. That doesn't mean the present can't actually be worse, but often that perception is misleading.
When I think about the past I recall the bad things.

Also, any newbie who worries about how much Loony BoB pays attention to them has problems that internet message boards can't fix.

[Old Manus]

Also, any newbie who worries about how much Loony BoB pays attention to them has problems that internet message boards can't fix.
Ban BoB

[Yamaneko]

The past was great because we blamed Unne and Bleys for all our troubles.