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Markus. D
11-20-2005, 03:12 PM
my theory is that jenova is actually a she and a couple of evidences that she might be a he, and if you combine them together,you come up with an it.


evidence 1: Sephiroth is the only one in game (except for the one time when cloud calls it "mother") who constantly calls jenova "mother", the rest call it and "it."

evidence 2: if you look carefully in the progress of the Jenova battles, you notice a beard begins growing under jenova's jaw.

evidence 3: Lucrecia was never known to be the original jenova (that sephiroth takes the head of) which brings me to my next theory.

Jenova is pre-experimented black materia: Jenova also means, calamity from the sky, which brings me to another theory (not my own).

Black Materia/lifestream god theory: There are two "Gods" in the story: JENOVA and the Lifestream. For both, there
is a concept that involves their "children" rejoining with them: JENOVA has
its "Reunion" with the Cells in the Clones drawing them to the creature, and
the Lifestream has its Spirit Energy returning to it upon the death of a
"child" -- which it gifted with Spirit Energy when its life began -- the
Spirit Energy taking back with it the memories of that individual's lifetime,
from which the Lifestream will live and grow. One could say that JENOVA is a
dark "God" that attempts to conquer the light "God" (the Lifestream). With
these concepts in mind, recall the name of God, "Jehovah." "JENOVA" is a
corruption of this name, and this is reflected through the creature's
defilment of the Planet. Ifalna states that so long as JENOVA remains, the
Planet Gaia will never be able to heal.


symbolicism theories (all quoted): Moving on, "Sephiroth" means "Numbers" when loosely translated from its Hebrew
origin, and in the game we have numbered "Sephiroth Clones." They're naturally
drawn back to JENOVA (God calling His children back to Him, and them being led
back on a grid of paths that is God's tool, it actually being emanations of
God Himself as projected into the mortal world), and Sephiroth in Final
Fantasy VII places the Clones on "paths" to seek out the Black Materia as they
make their way to the Reunion

When the Clones finally get to the Northern Crater's Whirlwind Maze, the
Crater being the site where the Reunion is to take place, they are killed and
knocked into a chasm, no doubt for their Cells to be assimilated by JENOVA,
thus the creature fought inside the Planet later bearing the name
"JENOVA-SYNTHESIS," a synthesis being defined as the combination of two or
more separate parts into a complex whole. They've rejoined with "God." Also
notable is that -- briefly returning to the matter of the "Tree of Life" title
-- at the Northern Crater, Sephiroth's body lay at the centre of a large tree.

While on the subject of the center of the Tree of Life, let us return to the
matter. As mentioned before, the central node on the Tree is called the
Tifaret. Interestingly enough, the name bears a very striking resemblance to
the first name of the character known as Tifa Lockhart. Tifa is the Tifaret,
so to speak, at least for Cloud. In the Lifestream, she helps him find
himself, and he comes to fully understand himself, the penultimate goal of
following the Sephiroth's paths. One seeks to find an understanding of
theirself and then they may ascend to the final realm and rejoin with God.

Through Tifa, Cloud reaches the highest plain of conscious existance, gaining
an understanding and acceptance of himself, and, in so doing, is easily able
to purge JENOVA and Sephiroth from his mind during the game's ending. In
actuality, both Tifa and Cloud constitute a Tifaret. Tifa bears its virtues,
while Cloud bears its vices. He also is the one to experience the effects of
an unbalanced Tifaret, the illusion of over-identification. In being unwilling
to accept himself for who he was, Cloud over-identified himself with that
which he felt he must be in order to be special: Someone like Zack. This
illusion of imbalance nearly crippled Cloud's mind during the game. With
Tifa's help, he was able to overcome it, and accept who he was, thus,
achieving balance

Tifa further has a connection to the Tifaret through the name of her final
Limit Break and the name of her bar in the Slums of Sector 7, entitled "Final
Heaven" and "7th Heaven" respectively. As previously mentioned, the Tifaret
grants access to the highest realm of mortal existance, it, thus, being the
"Final Heaven" and -- being the seventh realm -- also the "7th Heaven."

Next up for consideration is Bizarro Sephiroth (also known as "Reverse
Sephiroth"), the next-to-final form seen of Sephiroth's body, in which his
body is being reborn as Safer Sephiroth from the pupa-like entity that is seen
as the bottom part of the boss in that battle. The name "Reverse
Sephiroth"/"Bizarro Sephiroth" is symbolic in the sense that what Sephiroth
was doing was a reversal of the religious Sephiroth's purpose. It's supposed
to lead to God, the holy of holies. Sephiroth had, indeed, been brought into
contact with JENOVA's Cells while a fetus in Lucrecia's womb for the purpose
of leading Shin-Ra to the Promised Land. Yet despite all this, here we find
him serving as the obstacle to the spell known as "Holy" being released. In
symbolically becoming the opposite of what he's supposed to be, this was a
"fall from grace," thus the symbolism of a one-winged Angel in the Safer
Sephiroth battle that follows the Bizarro battle.

In the battle with Safer Sephiroth, there is not only symbolism in the
appearance of Sephiroth, but also in his name. As with "Tifaret," "a" and "e"
can and are often used interchangeably for Hebrew words. That is also the case
with "Safer," which may also be spelled as "Sefer," "Sapher," and "Sepher." In
Hebrew, "Sefer" means "Book." Therefore, "Safer Sephiroth" means "Book of
Numbers."

When examining the Book of Numbers of the Pentateuch, as seen in both the
Bible and the Torah, we find that it involves taking up events after the
Israelites had spent nearly an entire year in the Mt. Sinai area, during which
time they were promised the land of Canaan should they be obedient to God.
This land came to be referred to as "the Promised Land." Worthy of note is
that the Book of Numbers picks up in the second month of the second year since
the Israelites' Exodus from Egypt. With this in mind, I refer back to there
being 22 paths that link the 10 spheres of the Sephiroth (2 & 2). Also of note
is the fact that the Book of Numbers involves the Israelites ending their
settlement in Sinai, preparing to depart to claim the Promised Land of Canaan,
and then setting out. In the Safer Sephiroth battle, the player is facing the
ascended form of Sephiroth, with him at last prepared to claim the Promised
Land of the Ancients: The Lifestream.

One major point to emphasise is that the Kabbalist Sephiroth is the emanations
of God Himself as projected into the mortal world. In Final Fantasy VII, it
was much the same case in regard to JENOVA and Sephiroth's relationship. He is
essentially the embodiment of JENOVA's will in a Gaian, its "emanations" as
projected into the world. While his own self and possessing his own
individuality, Sephiroth is the "evolution" of JENOVA's will, his consciously
perceiving mind combined with its instinctual viral desire to replicate.

Finally, I wish to point out the connections to Jewish mysticism as found in
Aerith, the Cetra, and the Promised Land. To start with, Aerith is 22 years
old and there are 22 paths of the Sephiroth. The Cetra and the Promised Land's
explanations are intertwined, so I will here present them together:

Just as an individual following the paths of the Sephiroth and seeking their
way back to God must overcome obstacles along the paths in order to achieve
this, so too must one do so in seeking their Promised Land. This is
demonstrated in-game by the Cetra's journey. It is described as a "harsh, hard
journey" at the end of which they would find their Promised Land:

Sephiroth
"This Planet originally belonged to the Cetra. Cetra was a
itinerant race. They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on..."
"At the end of their harsh, hard journey, they would find the
Promised Land and supreme happiness."


Referring back to Elder Hargo's comments on the Cetra, again, he states that
the "harsh, hard journey" of the Cetra ended when they were allowed to rejoin
with the Lifestream:

"The life of the Ancients is one continuous journey. A journey to grow trees
and plants, produce animals, and raise mako energy. Their harsh journeys
continued throughout their lives... The place they return to after their long
journey... Their burial land is the Promised Land. Huh? Supreme happiness? I
believe that, for the Ancients, it was the moment that they were able to
return to their planet. At that moment they were released from their fate, and
gained their supreme happiness..."


We can connect the matter of rejoining with the Lifestream to the matter of
rejoining with the Promised Land in the case of the Cetra based on what Aerith
says concerning the Cetra's origins, and what Bugenhagen says concerning
Spirit Energy and the cycle of rebirth in Final Fantasy VII

Also notable, and -- perhaps -- more interesting, is that Final Fantasy VII
also plays somewhat on Christianity, with Sephiroth essentially being the
Jesus to JENOVA's God. In Christianity, it is believed that Jesus was the
product of an emanation of God manifesting inside the womb of a mortal woman,
developing, and then being born. In Final Fantasy VII, we find the closest
thing possible occur: The Cells of JENOVA are injected into Lucrecia's womb,
where they meld with Sephiroth's body as it develops.

Further, the game's sequel, Advent Children, features another such reference
through its title. The Advent of Christ is said to be his return, or "second
coming" as it is often referred to as. In the film, Sephiroth is reborn, and
his "second coming" is witnessed.

Christmas
11-20-2005, 03:36 PM
Anyway, JENOVA take the form of Sephiroth during the game which mean it take the form of a "he". But from this picture:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/ff7_advent_children_09351.jpg

It show that JENOVA is a "she" at least from the moment it is found so it might have taken the form of a "she" but since it can changes form and shape, so it sex might varies too.

I guess what really matters is that it is an alien or which look more like a virus to the world. But most likely it is a "she" or assume the form of "she" most of the time given the way Square present this character.

d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x
11-20-2005, 05:43 PM
it has BOOBS!!! :D

Masamune·1600
11-20-2005, 06:51 PM
JENOVA's gender varies as needed, as the entity can change its appearance and physical characteristics as the need arises. Sephiroth himself suggests as much.


Sephiroth: Cloud... Don't blame Tifa. The ability to change one's looks, voice,
and words, is the power of Jenova. Inside of you, Jenova has merged with Tifa's
memories, creating you. Out of Tifa's memory...... A boy named Cloud might've
just been a part of them.

Moreover, Ifalna implies that JENOVA has the ability to alter its appearance in the Icicle Inn films.


Ifalna: I'm all right... When the Cetra... were preparing to part with the
land they loved... That's when it appeared! It looked like... our... our dead
mothers... and our dead brothers. Showing us spectres of their past.


Jenova is pre-experimented black materia: Jenova also means, calamity from the sky,

This theory doesn't really work. The Black Materia is derivative of the Gaian Lifestream, and thus is wholly separate from JENOVA. Also, JENOVA doesn't mean "Calamity from the Skies;" this phrase is merely a "description" of the being. As noted in the quoted theory, JENOVA means, roughly, "new God."

TurkSlayer
11-20-2005, 07:41 PM
Jenova is like Envy from from FMA. It takes the form of whatever is necessary and doesn't have an actual gender. However, Jenova was frozen in the form of a woman, and is of course considered Sephiroth's "Mother", so it is usually considered female.

boys from the dwarf
11-20-2005, 08:15 PM
evidence 2: if you look carefully in the progress of the Jenova battles, you notice a beard begins growing under jenova's jaw.
erm.yeah.errr.eek!!!!!*dies*.

Markus. D
11-20-2005, 11:50 PM
this is neat stuff comeing from all of you.

Shiny
11-21-2005, 12:21 AM
Personally I always thought Jenova was and she and never questioned it, because Sephiroth always referred to her as mother.

Markus. D
11-21-2005, 04:36 AM
is'nt that because he thinks that jenova is Lucrecia *needs to play ffvii again*

Masamune·1600
11-21-2005, 04:52 AM
is'nt that because he thinks that jenova is Lucrecia *needs to play ffvii again*

Not exactly. Sephiroth was never even informed of the existence of Lucrecia; he was told that his mother's name was "Jenova," and nothing else.


Cloud: Ummm... how 'bout your parents?

Sephiroth: My mother is Jenova. She died right after she gave birth to me. My
father... What does it matter...? All right, let's go.

As a result, Sephiroth neither knew what JENOVA actually was, nor knew that his actual biological mother was Lucrecia. Ignorant as to the specifics of his own existence, Sephiroth initially latched onto the erroneous literature in the basement of the Shinra Mansion, which incorrectly cited JENOVA as being a Cetra. However, given that the JENOVA cells had merged with him on a fundamental biological level while still in the womb, Sephiroth was actually something of an "evolution" of JENOVA, and this incident proved to be the impetus to set him along the path to fulfill the inherent, immutable goals of JENOVA.

Also of note is that Sephiroth never had any contact, even while a baby, with Lucrecia; she explicitly states that she never had the opportunity to hold her child.


Lucrecia: I wanted to disappear... I couldn't be with anyone... I wanted to
die... But the Jenova inside me wouldn't let me die... Lately, I dream a lot of
Sephiroth... My dear, dear child. Ever since he was born I never got to hold
him,
even once... Not even once. You can't call me his mother... That... is my sin...

In short, then, Sephiroth refers to JENOVA as mother because he was told such, and, more importantly, because his existence is defined by his near inseparability from and with the entity.

Markus. D
11-27-2005, 02:18 AM
makes sense :)