Organization

[sheila]

What is the organization?Also what is the order?

[angelstarfire]

Ummm... Organization is the same as 13th order... have you played KH:CoM yet???

You can also go to Kh2.co.uk to get more information...

[sheila]

I only Kingdom Hearts for PS2.So I haven't played it yet.

[Craig]

Isn't like, almost every member of that thing dead?

[Lost Number]

Email or PM me for the emu and rom if u dont have the GBA. I dont think u can share them on forums.

[Skyblade]

This (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=72955) thread holds my speculations and observations on the Organization and the XIII Order.


Ok, this is awesome. I just wish it was in English (though I really appreciate your translation, Destai). There are just too many questions flying through my head right now, most of which relate to the XIII Order and the Organization. Are they the same thing? Probably, but I'm not sure. According to Destai's translation, the XIII Order controls the nobodies. Yet the Organization seems to be made up of at least some nobodies itself (this was pointed out in CoM: R/R). Also, if the Organization is the XIII Order, why would DiZ want it destroyed if DiZ is in fact the Superior of the Organization as many have believed? Then again, many have also believed that DiZ is the nobody who is left when Ansem became a Heartless (which actually makes quite a bit of sense, especially with this trailer. It also shows how Mickey knows DiZ). Of course, these two ideas are not mutually exclusive. DiZ could be the Superior of the Organization and the nobody left when Ansem became a Heartless. This would give him reason to destroy the XIII Order, since it would have the power to control him as well. Of course, we then have few indications of what the XIII Order is. Another thing to think of (though I have been thinking about this before this trailer): What are with the new Heartless? The symbol they have on them is not the symbol that Ansem placed on the Heartless that he made, yet it is similar to symbols we have seen several places (it is extremely similar in form to the Kingdom Crown [seen in the zipper pull on Sora's outfit, and in the cutout of the Kingdom Key], and to the symbol which was used in Marluxia's scythe and battle armor seen in CoM). Do these new entities relate to the XIII Order or the Organization? If so, how? Questions, but few answers...


Anyway, I've been playing KH and CoM again and I've noticed a few things that I thought I'd mention. First, in Sora's story in CoM, Axel calls Namine a nobody.



Axel: I know just how you feel.
Namine: !
Axel: Don't get your hopes up. Nobodies can't be somebodies.

Now, this could simply be poor word choice, or it could be something much, much more, especially with what was presented in this translation. Both Kairi and Sora lost their hearts during KH. While Kairi didn't exactly become a Heartless, her heart was hidden in Sora's. Could that have caused the creation of a "nobody"? And could that nobody be Namine? Could BHK be a similar version of Sora? Of course, that would still ask the question of where Namine's power came from, among other things.




Riku: Who are you?! Are you with Ansem?!
Vexen: You are half correct. He is Ansem and he is not Ansem, which is to say he is nobody.

If Vexen was telling the truth, that would seem to prove that Ansem's nobody is out there somewhere, though whether he was speaking of DiZ or not has yet to be seen. There is also no proof that DiZ is the Superior of the Organization. However, both of those ideas seem increasingly plausible.

[KH1992]

WOW! I didnt pick up that much when I played...
Does Riku have a double... he's been consumed by darkness too?

[Lost Number]

Sort of. There is a Riku replica which was rikus memories. Riku himself is learning to control his dark powers.

[Skyblade]

Sort of. There is a Riku replica which was rikus memories. Riku himself is learning to control his dark powers.

I think what KH1992 is asking whether there is a nobody based off of Riku. There may well be, but if so, we haven't seen it yet. Still, it could be argued that Riku never actually became a Heartless, or whether he kept his heart the entire time he was working with the darkness. Riku was surrounded by the darkness, but his heart was supposedly even stronger than Sora's. He might have actually retained his heart the entire time. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Pheesh]

If i had to guess, and i've had this theory for a while now, i would say that when someone's heart is consumed by darkness two things happen:

A) They plunge into darkness and become a heartless.

B) Now, this is the more interesting and questionable of the two. If they are of strong enough heart or mind, depending on if the nobodies are imprints, some part of them will cross over. I say that they need a strong heart because all the nobodies are warriors. Now, The evidence. I think the scene in deep dive where you see sora flying over the ocean, his back arched looking exactly like it does when he floats away in a kind of trance, is actually him crossing into the nobody world when he unlocks his heart and is plunged into darkness.

So it would seem that people can come back from the heartless world but giving that we've seen riku in his normal form and his blindfolded form, that your imprint stays in the nobody world.

Stay Essential
EE

[KuRt]

Hmm interesting.
Riku sees Vexen when entering the hallway.
Vexen: Riku, I presume?
Riku: Who are you? Are you with Ansem?
Vexen: You are half correct. Let us say that it's not the Ansem you know. He is Ansem and he is not — which is the say he is nobody.
Riku: Nobody, huh?
so we can safely think that DiZ is Ansem´s nobody, come on he even looks same..

But where do these smaller nobodies come from? those white heartless like monsters. If a guy turns into a "nobody", he still resembles himself, like DiZ resembles Ansem.


and also:

Riku sees Lexaeus upon entering the hallway.
Riku: That scent... You're another "nobody."

So does that mean that Organization people are nobodies or did Riku just say Lexaeus as a nobody because he didn´t know what he was?
nah, I´m tired so I don´t know what I´m saying.. Bt still i wonder where do the samller nobodies come from.

[Skyblade]

Hmm interesting.
Riku sees Vexen when entering the hallway.
Vexen: Riku, I presume?
Riku: Who are you? Are you with Ansem?
Vexen: You are half correct. Let us say that it's not the Ansem you know. He is Ansem and he is not — which is the say he is nobody.
Riku: Nobody, huh?
so we can safely think that DiZ is Ansem´s nobody, come on he even looks same..

But where do these smaller nobodies come from? those white heartless like monsters. If a guy turns into a "nobody", he still resembles himself, like DiZ resembles Ansem.


and also:

Riku sees Lexaeus upon entering the hallway.
Riku: That scent... You're another "nobody."

So does that mean that Organization people are nobodies or did Riku just say Lexaeus as a nobody because he didn´t know what he was?
nah, I´m tired so I don´t know what I´m saying.. Bt still i wonder where do the samller nobodies come from.

Didn't I answer that already?

[Psydekick]

Didn't I answer that already?
He did definetly.

[KH1992]

Laxaeus dies anyway... doesn't the replica die too? i havent played in a while...
DiZ pretended to be Ansem to lure Riku into the Castle... Would that have anything to do with the fact that he could possibly be Ansem's 'nobody'?

[Lost Number]

Mickey seems to know DiZ from somewhere. Also, he is not arrayed as a nobody.

[KH1992]

Mickey seems to know DiZ from somewhere. Also, he is not arrayed as a nobody.
Don't remember anything like that....

[Mercen-X]

Isn't like, almost every member of that thing dead?
Like the Disney bosses from KH, most of the Nobodies weren't destroyed, they were merely defeated, left to strike again. Axel certainly destroyed the few comrades he showed up for.
Can't quote your quotes
So, any who lose their hearts and become heartless then spawn Nobodies.

When normal people and creatures become Heartless (their hearts stolen by Shadows) they are mostly smaller and weaker like Shadows and Shadow Soldiers. They, like Sora, are those that have very little darkness in their hearts.
The Disney Bosses (who all had immense darkness in their hearts) became ultra-heartless, growing in size and assuming new forms. This does not pertain to Clayton who was not aware of the power of the darkness in his heart. Had he been, he'd surely have transformed as opposed to using the Chameleon as an advantage.

Opposite the World of Light (I've learned to accept is Sora's World, despite the cliche) is the World of Darkness where BHK and his friends reside, all Nobodies created by the reign of heartless in the World of Light. The Organization must be the reflection of very dark-hearted individuals.

Namine and BHK (and his friends) may be acceptions. It may be that because Sora and Kairi recovered their hearts that their Nobody counterpart evolved from normal weak heartless to gain "bodies" of their own (or something).

Anyway, something important I have to say is that Riku never lost his heart. His strongest form (unlike all the other KH bosses) was that of Riku being possessed by Ansem alone. As a matter of fact, pretty much without the help of his friends, Riku fought off Ansem's control long enough for Sora and Kairi to escape. This alone is proof enough of Riku's strength of heart.

[KH1992]

so... because Riku never lost his heart... he won't have a nobody...
but, Kairi never lost her heart... she placed it in Sora's instead of losing it, so why does she have a nobody?

[Destai]

I translated something?

[KuRt]

so... because Riku never lost his heart... he won't have a nobody...
but, Kairi never lost her heart... she placed it in Sora's instead of losing it, so why does she have a nobody?
She kinda lost it because it wasn´t with her all the time, it was with sora. so technically she did lost it.

[KH1992]

but not to the Heartless... she kinda lost it willingly...

[Skyblade]

Just a quick note here on the theories about BHK. His name has now been confirmed as Roxas. Another name with an X. In fact, his name is just a rearranging of "Sora" with an "X" added in. Coincidence? Or another sign that he, too, is a "nobody"?