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weapon
11-24-2005, 07:41 AM
First of all they say cloud is the clone, he cant be because he grew up with tifa. zack is the clone, but he has a family. someone please explain.

Christmas
11-24-2005, 01:01 PM
Cloud grew up with Tifa and joined the Shinra Army.

Cloud didn't make it to SOLDIERS and was just a regular nobody.




Zack: Hey Cloud. If you're feeling sick, why don't you take that mask off?

Cloud: Yeah...... Yeah... this is... me.

In the truck from the past...

Cloud: I ...never made it as a member of SOLDIER. I even left my hometown
telling everyone I was going to join, but... I was so embarrassed...... I didn't
want to see anybody...

During the Nibelheim incident, Cloud was one the regular soldier that came along with Sephiroth.

The "Cloud" that was in his story which he told in Kalm is actually "Zack". He mistook himself as Zack and took his place in the story,


A flashback of the Mako Reactor in Mt. Nibel, but Zack appears instead of Cloud.

Tifa: That's right! It was Zack who came to Nibelheim with Sephiroth! Then,
where were you, Cloud? Cloud... Did you... see it all?

Cloud: I saw... everything...

A soldier took Zack's sword and moves on to stop Sephiroth. The soldier poked Sephiroth.

Sephiroth: Aaarrrgh...... who... who are you?

Soldier: Mom... Tifa... my town... give it back... I had so much respect for
you... I admired you...

Tifa: Cloud!?

The soldier took off his mask showing himself as Cloud.

During the Kalm's flashback, it ended with "Cloud" in the flashback facing Sephiroth. But actually it was Zack and the above state what happen after that.

After the incident, Hojo captured the both of them and conduct experiment on them in Nibelheim. But later Zack escaped and brought Cloud along.


Zack: "Oh, here!! Put on this. It smells a little though don't complain.
You
look pretty good with that. Well..."

The scene comes back into focus. Zack and Cloud are in the back of an old
pick-up truck. Cloud has been dressed in a SOLDIER uniform. He is still
shaking uncontrollably. Zack is pacing about, he bangs on the rear window of
the drivers cab.

Zack: "Yo! Old guy! We at Midgar yet?"

Driver: "Shaddup! You're lucky I even gave you a ride!"

Zack returns to Cloud and sits beside him. He starts to talk to him. Cloud is
unable to respond to Zack and can't do anything except shake his head up and
down.

Zack: "What're you gonna do when we get to Midgar?"

Cloud: "......"

Zack: "I got a place I can crash for a while. No wait, the mother lives there
to... Guess that's out..."

Cloud: "....."

Zack: "Yep...gotta change my plans! Hmm... No matter what I do, I need some
money first... hey, wanna start a business? But what could we do?" Hey
Cloud. Think there's anything I'd be good at?"

Zack turns and shouts at the driver.

Zack: "Hey, old guy. What do you think I'd be good at?"

Driver: "What're you yappin' about? You're still young ain't ya? Young folks
should try everything! You gotta pay your debts while you're still
young. Go out and look for what you really want."

Zack: "Try everything...That's easy for him to say... (does some squat thrusts
for a bit then has an idea) HEY! Of course! I got a lotta brains a skill that
other guys don't. That settles it! I'm gonna become a mercenary! (yells at
driver) Yeah! Thanks pops!"

Driver: "Hey.. didn't you even hear a word I said?"

Zack: "Listen, I'm gonna become a mercenary and that's that. Boring stuff,
dangerous stuff, anything for money. I'm gonna be rich! So Cloud. What
are you gonna do?"

Driver: (shaking head) " No, wait...you got it all wrong."

Cloud: "u..uhhh......"

Zack: "Just kidding... I won't leave you hanging like that. (he sits next to
Cloud and rests his head on him, Cloud stops shaking for a moment) We're
friends right? Mercenaries Cloud, that's what you an' me are gonna be. (He
stands up) Understand Cloud?"

So Cloud got the idea of being a mercenary and Zack's uniform from him. Later Zack got killed while the soldiers that killed Zack let Cloud off seeing him in such a state.

Cloud wake up. He got the buster sword from Zack and meet up with Tifa after that. (Please note that Cloud is still not very sane at this moment.)

Here is some reports found in the game.




"Escape report no.1
X month X day
The two escapee's located near Midgar"

"Escape report no. 2
Description at the time of capture.
A - Former member of SOLDIER/Number ( )
No effect could be detected from either Mako Radiation Therapy or Jenova on him
B - Regular/Number ( )
Reaction to Jenova detected."

"Escapee report no.3
Concerning their disposal.
A - Shot for resisting.
B - Escaped during A's resistance."

"Escapee report no.4
Other.
B's whereabouts is currently unknown. But, we submit there is no need to
pursue him, due to his diminishing consciousness. Awaiting further
instructions."

A refer to Zack while B refer to Cloud

They said B escaped to save them the trouble from telling the truth that they couldn't be bother with Cloud.

We can see that Zack, already treated with Mako since he is from SOLDIER was able to resist the Jenova treatment. Cloud however, suffered the double trauma of Mako treatment and Jenova therapy. His terrible condition once out of the tube can most likely be explained by this trauma, his wound from Sephiroth and his "failed" reaction to the Jenova cells (remember Hojo calls him failure and does not tattoo him).

Sephiroth is able to make use of his confused self and manipulate him not forgeting the Jenova cells in Cloud allow Sephiroth some mental control over him as well.

So Cloud believed himself to be a failed clone given the identity of the kind of brave and popular man(Sephiroth) he had always thought himself to be during the north cave sequence until he snapped out of it later in the game.

Regarding Cloud's childhood self, I guess it is explained pretty well in the game.

raskerino
11-24-2005, 01:14 PM
I think it's explained very well in the game, have you beaten it yet?

And unknowns answer is good.

d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x
11-24-2005, 08:14 PM
all hail the storyteller *bows at unknowns feet*

EPIC - MASTER OF COMBAT
11-25-2005, 05:14 AM
wow hot and good story teller.. if she like yuna i want her to come to hell. alive of crouse i got busniess to do.
*pulls out longsword*

boys from the dwarf
11-25-2005, 06:45 AM
zack grew up with tifa until cloud was made. cloud is a clone who is only 5 years old but has all of the memories of zack and zack was killed(or maybe still alive somewhere with all these rumours.). all of this happened becuase of jenova. on the second disk where you meet sepiroth he tells you its jenova who had the power to change memorys.

Dr. Casey
11-25-2005, 06:52 AM
I think it's explained very well in the game, have you beaten it yet?

I think it's explained terribly in the game. Speaking in riddles does not a clear storyline make.

Christmas
11-25-2005, 07:25 AM
zack grew up with tifa until cloud was made. cloud is a clone who is only 5 years old but has all of the memories of zack and zack was killed(or maybe still alive somewhere with all these rumours.). all of this happened becuase of jenova. on the second disk where you meet sepiroth he tells you its jenova who had the power to change memorys.

This is not what happened...Cloud was never made and Zack did not grew up with Tifa....


Sephiroth: Cloud... Don't blame Tifa. The ability to change one's looks, voice,
and words, is the power of Jenova. Inside of you, Jenova has merged with Tifa's
memories, creating you. Out of Tifa's memory...... A boy named Cloud might've
just been a part of them.

Sephiroth is trying to confuse and manipulate Cloud at this point making Cloud believing himself to be a failed clone.

blackwinged_cloud
11-25-2005, 08:11 PM
But it makes me sad the idea od Cloud and Tifa having (mabey) only false memories of eachother, and never really knowing eachother. I know they really did know eachother (i think) but it's sad, and when I first got to that part I really cried. I never understood. :cry:

Anniexo
11-25-2005, 09:06 PM
they did know ecth other well only when cloud want back home with zake and sephiroth they was fale cus he told this stroy was tols like it was zake telling it apart from that all of his past he told poeple about was right "by the way i think when he said he saw his mum am not sure if that bit is right"

Dr. Casey
11-26-2005, 02:45 AM
But it makes me sad the idea od Cloud and Tifa having (mabey) only false memories of eachother, and never really knowing eachother. I know they really did know eachother (i think) but it's sad, and when I first got to that part I really cried. I never understood. :cry:

It's always good to hear that people care about the game this much. :choc:

vampirepiggyhunter7
11-26-2005, 10:45 PM
I think it's explained terribly in the game. Speaking in riddles does not a clear storyline make.
THANK YOU!

Masamune·1600
11-26-2005, 11:02 PM
Unknowns has it mostly right, although there are a few points that require clarification.


We can see that Zack, already treated with Mako since he is from SOLDIER was able to resist the Jenova treatment. Cloud however, suffered the double trauma of Mako treatment and Jenova therapy. His terrible condition once out of the tube can most likely be explained by this trauma, his wound from Sephiroth and his "failed" reaction to the Jenova cells (remember Hojo calls him failure and does not tattoo him).

This statement is actually erroneous. Zack was able to resist both the Mako infusion and JENOVA therapy; this only makes sense, as these "enhancements" are always applied to members of SOLDIER (of which Zack was a member). However, Cloud's susceptibility had nothing to do with "double trauma." Even if we discount the possibility that Cloud had previously had some sort of Mako exposure (this is suggested by the glow in his eyes in Last Order, although that source is extracanonical), it remains that Cloud has a much greater affinity for Mako than other Gaians. Recall after Cloud is discovered in Mideel...


Doctor: I'll say it again, he's got Mako poisoning. I've never seen a case this
bad. An immerse amount of Mako-drenched knowledge was put into his brain all at
once...... No normal human could survived it...... It's a miracle he did!

Also of note is that Escapee Report 2 indicates no reaction on the part of Cloud to Mako.


Escape report no. 2
Description at the time of capture.
A - Former member of SOLDIER/Number ( )
No effect could be detected from either Mako Radiation Therapy or Jenova on him
B - Regular/Number ( )
Reaction to Jenova detected.

Only a reaction to the JENOVA cells is noted.

Moreover, Cloud is not a failed Sephiroth Clone. Hojo only views him as such because Cloud told him this...


Hojo: Ha, ha, ha... this is perfect!!! It means that my experiment was a
complete success. What number were you? Huh? Where is your tattoo?

Cloud: Professor Hojo... I don't have a number. You didn't give me one because
you said I was a failed experiment.

Hojo: What the--? You mean only a failure made it here?

Cloud: Professor... please give me a number. Please, Professor...

Hojo: Shut up, miserable failure...

...and Cloud only believes this because he had been convinced of such by Sephiroth.


Sephiroth: Five years ago you were... ...constructed by Hojo, piece by piece,
right after Nibelheim was burnt. A puppet made up of vibrant Jenova cells, her
knowledge, and the power of the Mako. An incomplete Sephiroth-clone. Not even
given a number. ...That is your reality. Ha, ha, ha......

Cloud does, after all, fulfill Hojo's goal for the CLONES; he confirms the veracity of the "Jenova Reunion Theory."



As to the original question, it seems part of the misuderstanding is due to the word "clone." It is crucial to realize that within the FFVII mythos, the term does not have the same meaning it does in real life. "Clone" in FFVII refers to a Sephiroth Clone; a Sephiroth Clone is not a genetic duplicate of Sephiroth, nor is a Clone wholly constructed from JENOVA cells. A Sephiroth Clone is merely an individual injected with JENOVA cells.


Cloud: I'm physically built like someone in SOLDIER. Hojo's plan to clone
Sephiroth wasn't that difficult. It was just the same procedure they use when
creating members of SOLDIER. You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to
Mako energy. Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells...... For
better or worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER. It has nothing to do with
Jenova Reunion. But weak people...... like me, get lost in the whole thing. The
combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will and my own weakness are
what created me. Everyone knew that. I'm...... Cloud. ......the master of my own
illusionary world. But I can't remain trapped in an illusion any more...... I'm
going to live my life without pretending.

In that sense, both Cloud and Zack were clone experiments, although both were real people with definite backgrounds. Both, simply, had been given JENOVA cells.

Cloud, however, suffered an adverse reaction to the JENOVA cells. As a result, his sense of self-awareness was reduced. After escaping, Zack related his stories from the Nibelheim disaster to Cloud. In his JENOVA-intensified state, Cloud superimposed himself over Zack in his memories of the incident. The scene where Tifa discovers Cloud and the screen flashes shows this process coming to its ultimate fruition. Cloud takes on the role of Zack in his memory of the disaster, leading to the inconsistencies encountered during the game.