Firefox 1.5 released! Warning: elitism inside

[Yamaneko]

http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/

Today marks the release of Firefox 1.5 as a final product to the end-user. Now is a good time to switch over if you haven't already done so. I'm looking at you BoB and Del! Check out the link for a full list of changes and features and to download Firefox. Go now!

[Hawkeye]

OK!

Firefox rules, even though im using IE at the moment

[Primus Inter Pares]

Firefox is the sex.

As rubah just said:

I'm not about to disgrace EoFF by using IE on it.

[XxSephirothxX]

Woo! Now I can try out that BlackJapan theme that looks oh so sweet.

[DMKA]

People are still on this Firefox bitchfit? lol internet

[Yamaneko]

Yep. The entire notion behind the Firefox web browser is to annoy those who do not use it, not that it's promoted because it is a better alternative to IE. Yep, that's it.

[DMKA]

Yep. The entire notion behind the Firefox web browser is to annoy those who do not use it, not that it's promoted because it is a better alternative to IE. Yep, that's it.
I use Firefox and it annoys the hell out of me. Unlike every other Firefox user who feels the need to bitch and whine at everyone else because they just maybe aren't using the same browser, I prefer to spend my time doing my own thing...like using the browser to browse.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Woo! Now I can try out that BlackJapan theme that looks oh so sweet.
*has it* It is sweet...

[Yamaneko]

Then why do you use it?

I suggest Firefox to people when they are obviously having problems using IE because it might actually make their Internet browsing a little easier.

Anyway, this thread is about the newest release of Firefox and not an IE vs. Firefox debate. It doesn't matter to me what people use.

[DMKA]

So when people bitch and whine at me I can say I use it and they can feel like an idiot.

[MecaKane]

Holy crap!
When I select text it's inverted from what it is in other programs, how can I change that? @_@

[Captain Maxx Power]

Holy crap!
When I select text it's inverted from what it is in other programs, how can I change that? @_@

Turn your monitor upside down.

[Kirobaito]

The Black Japan looks good in the picture, but I don't really like it while it's in use. I'll go back to my Noia.

[kikimm]

I will never use Firefox ever. IE is just fine.

Sickos.

[ZeZipster]

Seriously people... I know you all think your funny because you refuse to use IE. But it's really just aggravating. Web standards are being held back because of IE. Not using Internet Explorer isn't hurting just you and your computer (due to the atrocious amount of adware you're gathering) but Web Designers are having to cater to broken browsers. Hell, even Opera (http://www.opera.com/) is free now. I have to use ghetto CSS hacks and avoid PNG Alpha transparency because of IE, and it's not looking much better in IE7.

Face it: Microsoft won't fix Internet Explorer so long as people are still willing to use it. Just go to http://www.csszengarden.com and view a couple of pages in IE, then view some in Firefox.

[Psychotic]

Why is Firefox better than Internet Explorer? Someone sell it to me please. Thank you.

(but don't give me the ol' spyware and pop-ups (or is that pop-under? Meh, just as annoying) nonsense, because I have received both whilst browsing with Firefox :))

[Shoden]

Simply because it doesn't lag as much and it's faster, those are good enough reasons for me.

Spyware is less common but it just happens deal with it, FF is the superior browser, IE just pisses people off alot and FF is like converting to religion after spending years as something like an athiest (Just a comparison example no offense).

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Spyware scan while using IE: +100 found
Same program, but after using Firefox: 3 found

Yeah you still get some, but there is a big difference...

[Doomie]

Spyware is less common but it just happens deal with it, FF is the superior browser, IE just pisses people off alot and FF is like converting to religion after spending years as something like an athiest (Just a comparison example no offense).

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

[Lindy]

Firefox 1.5 released!

Internet geeks scream in joy!

Normal people pay no attention.

[ZeZipster]

Why is Firefox better than Internet Explorer? Someone sell it to me please. Thank you.

(but don't give me the ol' spyware and pop-ups (or is that pop-under? Meh, just as annoying) nonsense, because I have received both whilst browsing with Firefox :))

It's faster, and it's more efficient. If you middle click in Firefox you open up a new tab. I know you probably rolled your eyes at that, but it does save time, especially when sifting though multiple threads you want to go to or say a google search? You're also missing out on a LOT in Firefox, whether you realize it or not. Microsoft won't comply with W3C (http://www.w3.org/)'s standards. This may mean nothing to people with no web design experience, but for those of us who do have experience in web design, we know this means that IE is a broken browser.

The keyboard shortcuts save time, the fact that it's faster saves time, the fact that it actually SHOWS you the web page as the webmaster intended you to see it as saves YOU time.

[Hawkeye]

Firefox 1.5 released!

Internet geeks scream in joy!

Normal people pay no attention.


Haha I'm normal! w00t 1337

[rubah]

I haven't scanned for adware with any significant results since, oh we'll call it June 2004.

I haven't scanned for adware at all in the last several months.

Previous to june 2004, I would get about 30+ warnings of spyware on any given scan. Every third day or so.

That is not a negligible difference. That is a BIG difference.

http://secunia.com/advisories/15546/

Thanks for the headsup yams:] Time to update :D (I haven't updated my Internet Explorer since october of 2001:( )

[Raistlin]

Tabbed browsing is god.

And I love how all the stupid IE users bitch everytime Firefox is mentioned. As if we care. If they want to do themselves a disservice by using a vastly inferior browser, that's their problem.

I also find it amusing that those who use IE are among those who know the least about computers. I don't know much about computers, but I know a lot of people that do, and they all reccomend Firefox. Every computer-smart person at EoFF that I can think of off-hand uses Firefox, to my knowledge. Coincidence?

[Yamaneko]

BoB is "computer-smart" and he uses IE.

[Psychotic]

It's faster, and it's more efficient. If you middle click in Firefox you open up a new tab. I know you probably rolled your eyes at that, but it does save time, especially when sifting though multiple threads you want to go to or say a google search? You're also missing out on a LOT in Firefox, whether you realize it or not. Microsoft won't comply with W3C (http://www.w3.org/)'s standards. This may mean nothing to people with no web design experience, but for those of us who do have experience in web design, we know this means that IE is a broken browser.

The keyboard shortcuts save time, the fact that it's faster saves time, the fact that it actually SHOWS you the web page as the webmaster intended you to see it as saves YOU time.It hasn't been faster for me. And I'm not going to roll my eyes at that, because here's the thing: I use firefox on this computer because people claim it stops TEH EVIL SPYWAREZ, but I don't use tabbed browsing. Tabs in general annoy me. I prefer multiple windows and that's what I have open, in Firefox, right now. Shocking, eh? :p

Also, I have yet to see a difference in pages I visit regularly when I look at them in IE and when I look at them in Firefox. I'm sure some fancy sites will look different, but I have no need to visit fancy sites. So I'm really wondering what extra dimension Firefox adds, for me personally, that IE doesn't have. I've got no reason not to use it, but I've also got no reason why I shouldn't use IE as an alternative.

And I love how all the stupid IE users bitch everytime Firefox is mentioned. As if we care. If they want to do themselves a disservice by using a vastly inferior browser, that's their problem.As if you care? If you people don't care when people use IE, why are you all trying to convert them? Perhaps you, personally, don't, but you said "we", and by that I assume you mean Firefox users as a whole. ;)

[Raistlin]

BoB is "computer-smart" and he uses IE.
I define "computer smart" as being capable of being a tech guy, knowing a lot about Windows, Linux, web browsers, etc.

[Lindy]

I'm "computer-smart" enough to know that I don't NEED Firefox, I've done speed and spyware comparisons, there is minimal difference, if anything Firefox loads pages slower for me.

Oh, and I find it funny that Firefox users suddenly assume themselves superior to people who don't feel the need to use an alternative browser when the one they have works fine.

You don't see people making "LOOK THE NEW IE VERSION, USE IT NOW", do you?

I want a browser to look at web pages, IE does that, I don't need bells, whistles and tabs when I have all that I need.

[Raistlin]

I'm "computer-smart" enough to know that I don't NEED Firefox, I've done speed and spyware comparisons, there is minimal difference, if anything Firefox loads pages slower for me.

Oh, and I find it funny that Firefox users suddenly assume themselves superior to people who don't feel the need to use an alternative browser when the one they have works fine.

You don't see people making "LOOK THE NEW IE VERSION, USE IT NOW", do you?

I want a browser to look at web pages, IE does that, I don't need bells, whistles and tabs when I have all that I need.
You don't need a mouse to browse the internet. You could browse without a mouse using a lot of tabs and hotkeys. But having a mouse sure makes using a computer a helluva lot easier, eh?

[Doomie]

You don't need a mouse to browse the internet. You could browse without a mouse using a lot of tabs and hotkeys. But having a mouse sure makes using a computer a helluva lot easier, eh?

NO YOU SHUT UP!

[rubah]

I'm "computer-smart" enough to know that I don't NEED Firefox, I've done speed and spyware comparisons, there is minimal difference, if anything Firefox loads pages slower for me.

Oh, and I find it funny that Firefox users suddenly assume themselves superior to people who don't feel the need to use an alternative browser when the one they have works fine.

You don't see people making "LOOK THE NEW IE VERSION, USE IT NOW", do you?

I want a browser to look at web pages, IE does that, I don't need bells, whistles and tabs when I have all that I need.
What new IE version?

[Lindy]

Funny because I actually use hotkeys and tabs more than I use a mouse, handy, eh?

That and you can't compare a piece of hardware to a piece of software, hotkeys and tabs to a mouse is not like IE to firefox as a mouse is a giant step up from tabs and hotkeys.

Firefox is just a step to the side, not a step forward.

[Loony BoB]

What I find really amusing is that in the past year, I've heard countless people complain about Firefox crashing (at least three in the past week) and I can't remember IE crashing on me or any friends of mine in the same length of time. I was nearly converted beforehand, but put it off, and there's far less of a chance of me doing it right after so many complaints. I still say that maybe I'll do it later, for security purposes only. I'd have to disable a lot of Firefox features, though, such as tabbed browsing and the fact that (apparently) scrolling opens links and so forth.

In the past year, IE has not crashed on my friends or myself as far as I know, but Firefox has. Also, it was prone to problems when playing Scorch2000. I think every player who played that game using Firefox crashed at least once. So whoever says "it runs everything just fine!" is entirely wrong.

Maybe Firefox is better, but right now, IE works just fine for me.

EDIT: Regarding tabs and hotkeys: I don't like tabs because I use my mouse to change windows, and I like having them ALL listed at the bottom of the screen. I have the option of grouping similar windows, but I don't use that either. Having everything available to me in a single click is superior to tabs, which could require two links if I was going from Excel to a Firefox window which was tabbed away. That's decreasing efficiency for me. :) As for hotkeys, I use my mouse more often than my keyboard when browsing, so I don't need them. I very rarely use the hotkeys that are available to me without Firefox.

[Yamaneko]

IE is a bigger security risk simply because it's tied directly to the OS. ActiveX among other things have caused most of the security problems found in IE.

The reason why IE starts-up faster than Firefox is that it loads while Windows is loading.

[Loony BoB]

I do admit that IE has bigger security issues (not problems, but issues, because there are problems with Firefox, it just happens that hackers don't turn those problems into issues because Firefox isn't targeted like IE is). Having said that, if more people used Firefox than IE, I firmly believe that Firefox would have a surge in security issues. So you guys can thank me for using IE, now. :D

EDIT: Security is, to date, the ONLY decent reason anyone has ever given me when it comes to switching to Firefox, and is the only reason I still do consider it from time to time.

[ZeZipster]

Firefox is just a step to the side, not a step forward.
That made me cry. YOU'VE IGNORED EVERYTHING I'VE SAID. C'mon, listen... Microsoft practically bought out W3C and won't comply to their standards. CSS + XHTML is how pages are made these days, and IE can't handle CSS. IE can't even handle PNG Alpha Transparency. Y'know those annoying little white lines around those .gif images? That's there because ignorant people won't use Firefox out of spite. What reason have you to use IE? EVERYTHING offered in IE is offered in Firefox. All of this is just immature defiance strictly due to spite.


What I find really amusing is that in the past year, I've heard countless people complain about Firefox crashing (at least three in the past week) and I can't remember IE crashing on me or any friends of mine in the same length of time. I was nearly converted beforehand, but put it off, and there's far less of a chance of me doing it right after so many complaints. I still say that maybe I'll do it later, for security purposes only. I'd have to disable a lot of Firefox features, though, such as tabbed browsing and the fact that (apparently) scrolling opens links and so forth.

In the past year, IE has not crashed on my friends or myself as far as I know, but Firefox has. Also, it was prone to problems when playing Scorch2000. I think every player who played that game using Firefox crashed at least once. So whoever says "it runs everything just fine!" is entirely wrong.

Maybe Firefox is better, but right now, IE works just fine for me.

That's because whenever IE crashes explorer tends to crash altogether.

BTW: I've never had Firefox crash on me.

[Yamaneko]

Firefox is generally more secure when compared to IE regardless of who is targeting it. Like I said, it's much easier for embedded scripts to execute within a webpage in IE than in Firefox.

Can we keep the petty attacks out of this? Thanks.

[Loony BoB]

That's because whenever IE crashes explorer tends to crash altogether.
I've never had Explorer crash on me, either, since I started using XP. The only times my PC has crashed completely is when I had some driver or possibly memory problem. I did, however, once have a virus problem, but that was a security breach (which I've already admitted to being an issue) rather than IE directly causing a crash. Also, the virus would shut down my system, not crash it.

[MecaKane]

Seriously guys!
It's white on the background with blue text instead of blue background with white text. The contrast is killing my eyes already. @____@

Also: Firefox is the /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif now, it's not the firefox people who're trying to be different, people who know anything about computers and still use ie are the ones being contrary just for the sake of it. :-x

[Lindy]

That made me cry. YOU'VE IGNORED EVERYTHING I'VE SAID. C'mon, listen... Microsoft practically bought out W3C and won't comply to their standards. CSS + XHTML is how pages are made these days, and IE can't handle CSS. IE can't even handle PNG Alpha Transparency. Y'know those annoying little white lines around those .gif images? <b>That's there because ignorant people won't use Firefox out of spite</b>. What reason have you to use IE? EVERYTHING offered in IE is offered in Firefox. <b>All of this is just immature defiance strictly due to spite</b>.
Look, I don't know what kind of life you lead, but I personally have better things to do than "spite" the internet by not using Firefox.

I'm using Internet Explorer because I've weighed up the differences, compared them, and I have no reason at all to change from something that works to...something that works, in a different way.

Step to the side, not forward.

[RSL]

I used to have netscape vs. IE arguments with my old roomate way back in the day.

[Lindy]

Netscape was better than IE on Windows 3.1, since Netscape 3.x would support frames but IE 2.x couldn't.

Oh and Javascript.

Those were the good old days.

[XxSephirothxX]

Seriously guys!
It's white on the background with blue text instead of blue background with white text. The contrast is killing my eyes already. @____@

Also: Firefox is the /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif now, it's not the firefox people who're trying to be different, people who know anything about computers and still use ie are the ones being contrary just for the sake of it. :-x

I bet there's a way to change that. I'd tell you how, but I'm no good at that sort of thing. Try poking around in some of the files.

[rubah]

I've never had Explorer crash on me, either, since I started using XP. The only times my PC has crashed completely is when I had some driver or possibly memory problem. I did, however, once have a virus problem, but that was a security breach (which I've already admitted to being an issue) rather than IE directly causing a crash. Also, the virus would shut down my system, not crash it.
Explorer crashes on me all the time because I abuse my system xD

It just doesn't work like it did four years ago.

(also you don't have to reboot when explorer crashes. Just alt tab to some window and try to browse anything or if you're in a command line type program, /run explorer.exe )

[Rye]

Oh man, guys. :( Please remember:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d81/ryessica/firefoxlovesie.gif

[Samuraid]

It's a good thing Raist is on the side of Firefox users, otherwise the IE users may have been winning the debate. (either that or the debate would have been dropped a long time ago)

1.5 is downloaded and ready to install as soon as I finish reading all these topics using the handy dandy tabbed browsing that IE doesn't have. :p

[DMKA]

I've found spyware on my computer that was impossible to get rid of until I uninstalled Firefox. Firefox makes no difference in the amount of spyware I get on a normal basis either. The only reason I use it is for tabbed browsing. The day (if ever) IE adds in tabbed browsing I'll be using it again.

[ZeZipster]

Look, I don't know what kind of life you lead, but I personally have better things to do than "spite" the internet by not using Firefox.
I'll write an autobiography for you sometime then.


I'm using Internet Explorer because I've weighed up the differences, compared them, and I have no reason at all to change from something that works to...something that works, in a different way.

Step to the side, not forward.

It doesn't work that differently. You act like you have to dance around your computer or shoot fire out of your nostrils to get Firefox to work. I've given you a plethora of reasons to change. You've done nothing but ignored me.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx

Those are some of the fixes IE7 will offer. They're hitting SOME of the big problems. But IE, even after 7 is released, will still be "broken" to some degree.

You've got no idea how much extra work goes into making hacks just to get IE pages to look like their supposed to. You're hindering web advancement and wasting your PERSONAL time on a browsers that's not only slower but also less compatible AND more vulnerible to spyware. If using Firefox is so damn sacreligious to you why don't you try Opera (http://www.opera.com/), it might be more similar to IE.

Edit:

I've found spyware on my computer that was impossible to get rid of until I uninstalled Firefox. Firefox makes no difference in the amount of spyware I get on a normal basis either. The only reason I use it is for tabbed browsing. The day (if ever) IE adds in tabbed browsing I'll be using it again.

Oh, you've caught us. We've been lying about all of this spyware stuff the entire time, you see. IT was all a cheap ploy to get you to change, but you've seen through us. All that jibba jabba about ActiveX and ACTUAL STATISTICS TAKEN FROM THOROUGH TESTING OF THE SAME PAGES ON BOTH IE and FIREFOX was all lies. Please don't expose us, please? Why it'd mean Mozilla would lose all the cash they're making from charging people to use Firefox. We wouldn't want that.

[Lindy]

By working "differently" I'm just talking about tabbed vs new windows, or the loading and displaying of pages, it doesn't phase me.

And your reasons, which by the way you've posted only a few, have just been as a whiny developer, "Oh noes, I haf 2do moer work 4 teh paegs ;("

Here's an idea, if you're that intent in making them work in Firefox and that sick of having to do it for IE, stop making them work in IE. I'm sure the world will be CRUSHED at not being able to view your webpages, and then move on happily with more important things.

You've done nothing to try and convince me besides calling me ignorant, when I've clearly stated that I've weighed up things MYSELF and decided. I neither need nor want other people to "convince" me, I have no reason to change, me, personally, not why YOU think I should change. I think the entire world should eat only cheese because cheese is good for you, there's a reason, but you ignored it! Oh no!

I don't care about web advancement, shinier webpages do nothing for me.
I've never wasted my time because of IE, like I said I compared Firefox and IE and found no change in speed.
I've never seen a lack of compatibility with IE and webpages, except for a couple of people's livejournals that I'd never read anyway, oh noes!
I've compared IE and Firefox's spyware protection, I see no difference, and when I have external anti-spy/malware running, why do I need even more anyway?

I'm not using Firefox not to be "awkward" as you seem to assume, it's not "sacrilegious" to use Firefox, but it's what's called a PERSONAL PREFERENCE, you know, when you like something more you use it more.

I like Internet Explorer, I see no difference between it and Firefox, and I prefer IE more.

Now will you stop acting like you're the messiah of the internet and have to "convert the sinners!!!111", I like what I like, you like what you like. You're not "superior" for using Firefox, so stop thinking you are.

[DMKA]

Oh, you've caught us. We've been lying about all of this spyware stuff the entire time, you see. IT was all a cheap ploy to get you to change, but you've seen through us. All that jibba jabba about ActiveX and ACTUAL STATISTICS TAKEN FROM THOROUGH TESTING OF THE SAME PAGES ON BOTH IE and FIREFOX was all lies. Please don't expose us, please? Why it'd mean Mozilla would lose all the cash they're making from charging people to use Firefox. We wouldn't want that.
I never said it doesn't do whatever it is you're claiming it does...nor did I tell you to stop using it. I just know what I've experienced myself, and I've never had all the problems everyone claims to have with IE that I haven't had with Firefox. The unremovable spyware thing is a problem I've actually ONLY experienced with Firefox though.

Again, read carefully: I'm not saying you're lying, or wrong, or anything else; I'm just telling you what I've seen and experienced. So no more putting words in my mouth, kplzthnx.

[rubah]

By making them work in IE as well, that just means we're better people for it ^_^

[ZeZipster]

By working "differently" I'm just talking about tabbed vs new windows, or the loading and displaying of pages, it doesn't phase me.
You don't have to use any of those. Firefox doesn't force tabbed browsing on you, it offers it.


And your reasons, which by the way you've posted only a few, have just been as a whiny developer, "Oh noes, I haf 2do moer work 4 teh paegs ;("

Here's an idea, if you're that intent in making them work in Firefox and that sick of having to do it for IE, stop making them work in IE. I'm sure the world will be CRUSHED at not being able to view your webpages, and then move on happily with more important things.

Yeah, because I actually own a webpage. It wasn't about me, it was about web developers as a whole. You can shrug off the fact that Internet Explorer isn't interpreting code how it's supposed to or you can change and FORCE Microsoft to do actual work, and making a working browser. It's really your choice, I suppose.

I assumed people want a browser that works. But I guess it's not about that, is it? Let's ignore the themes, the extensions, and the live bookmarks on TOP of the fact that Firefox is a working browser.


You've done nothing to try and convince me besides calling me ignorant, when I've clearly stated that I've weighed up things MYSELF and decided. I neither need nor want other people to "convince" me, I have no reason to change, me, personally, not why YOU think I should change. I think the entire world should eat only cheese because cheese is good for you, there's a reason, but you ignored it! Oh no!

I don't care about web advancement, shinier webpages do nothing for me.
I've never wasted my time because of IE, like I said I compared Firefox and IE and found no change in speed.
I've never seen a lack of compatibility with IE and webpages, except for a couple of people's livejournals that I'd never read anyway, oh noes!
I've compared IE and Firefox's spyware protection, I see no difference, and when I have external anti-spy/malware running, why do I need even more anyway?

If you have no reason or interest in changing, why are you here? To cause us grief as people who actually care about WORKING programs?

It's not about shinier webpages, it's about web standards. W3C has been the leader in web standards for some time now and Microsoft has chosen to ignore them. That's downright asinine.

[Lindy]

I'm here because people like you are calling people who use IE ignorant morons and I feel that I at least have some form of right to defend myself over my choice.

But, apparently I'm not allowed, so what's the point?

I care about working programs, if IE wasn't working for me, I wouldn't be using it. Can you understand that? It works, it displays webpages, that's all I need and thats why I use it.

The entire purpose of it is a browser, all your talk of themes, extensions, bookmark additions is entirely academic when it comes down to the simple thing that people want a browser for; to look at webpages.

[Dr Unne]

It's contradictory (and ridiculous) saying on one hand that you use IE because you don't care about web browsers enough to switch, and on the other hand spending tons of time arguing about it with people.

People use IE because it comes on their computer and they're too lazy or apathetic to try anything else, or are too used to it to want to change, or don't know anything else exists, or are too ignorant to recognize something better when it comes along. No other reasons. There's nothing wrong with being apathetic or lazy; having good web browsers isn't everyone's top priority.

However it's ridiculous to say that you use IE because it's better. Say you use it even though it's worse because you don't care that it's worse, that would be the truth. I believe that the "IE is cool!" crowd is quite often an example of nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity. Or else I imagine a grizzled old man proclaiming "I don't use banks! Don't trust em! I keeps my money in a coffee can in the Frigidaire!"

I define "better" as working better for the intended purpose of a web browser. You can define "better" in different ways, such as "my 1970 Ford pickup is better than your 2004 Camaro because it can haul more wood", or other such ways, in which case sure, IE may be "better" than Firefox for you. People have different values. Maybe people like it because of the big blue e, because they like blue.

But IE is objectively inferior when it comes to the things I deem important about being a web browser. Things like adhering to web standards, offering more options and better functionality, being more customizable, being more secure (whether it's because "MORE PEOPLE TARGET IE!" or because Firefox is designed in a better way, it doesn't matter (though the latter is more likely true)), etc. etc. Not being made by a company full of convicted criminals is another nice thing. Being cross-platform is yet another. Better ad-blocking capability, typeahead find, nicer interface, superior bookmark management, better privacy controls, better download management, etc. etc. I've read the opinions of IE developers who themselves claim that IE is a piece of junk. It's at least 5 years behind other browsers, before the latest beta was released (which was the first release in how many years?).

(I do code my web pages to be broken in IE, or at least make no effort to make sure they look right in IE.)

[Lindy]

Y'know, I haven't seen anyone in this thread say anything IE being "better", only Firefox users have talked about their browser being "better".

People defending IE, that is, myself, have just been saying "I prefer IE, I see no difference, why bother changing?" purely because I'm being called a moron for the browser I use.

It's hopelessly idiotic in itelf, like calling someone an idiot for the car they drive, what kind of games console they like more or the kind of soft drink they enjoy.

[Jimmch939]

I use to be an aol user, which uses ie. I had tons of spyware + virus issues. I would clean them all out and sooner or later they would be back. I remember running adaware and coming out with thousands of spyware objects. With Firefox, I recently ran a scan (hadn't done one since I switched to firefox months and months ago and I only had 15). Same deal with viruses, I would have a whole host of different things on my computer, clear them out and then a few weeks later I had a bunch more. I recently ran a virus scan, the first I have done in months, and I had one.

Using ie (both through aol, and later for a brief period of time by itself) I experienced freeze-ups and crashes. I would need to reboot my computer at least twice a week while browsing the internet. Since I made the switch to firefox I haven't once had to reboot.

That's enough to convince me.

[Raistlin]

I do admit that IE has bigger security issues (not problems, but issues, because there are problems with Firefox, it just happens that hackers don't turn those problems into issues because Firefox isn't targeted like IE is). Having said that, if more people used Firefox than IE, I firmly believe that Firefox would have a surge in security issues. So you guys can thank me for using IE, now. :D
And this is based on what knowledge? What security problems is there with Firefox? Yams and Unne and plenty of other people have gone step-by-step as to why Explorer is overall less secure in-and-of-itself than Firefox.

[Doomie]

I think that all you people use Firefox because you're all a bunch of homosexual, atheist, flag-burning, tea-drinking immigrants.

NOTE: THis is not an attack on homosexuals, atheists, flag burners, tea drinkers, or immigrants. It's just that this thread reached such a level of stupidity, that I feel I should reply with something much more stupid...IE RULES! ROFLOLMAO!!!!1!!11!!!1!!

P.S. I have used Firefox and IE. I prefer IE. I didn't get any spyware or viruses, and it wasn't running slowly. It has yet to crash or freeze. I am happy. LEAVE ME ALONE.

[Leeza]

Anyway, this thread is about the newest release of Firefox and not an IE vs. Firefox debate. It doesn't matter to me what people use.
*downloads Firefox 1.5*

EDIT: Okay, I have a problem. It seems that MeasureIt 0.3.3 and fireFTP 0.88.3 have now been disabled for me because they are not compatible with Firefox 1.5. Any suggestions for this Yams? Dr Unne? Anyone? :(

[Primus Inter Pares]

Having said that, if more people used Firefox than IE, I firmly believe that Firefox would have a surge in security issues. So you guys can thank me for using IE, now. :D
BoB is one of the forgotten heroes, those that submit themselves to a life of IE and sacrifice so that those that use Firefox may continue to live in security and superiority.

[edczxcvbnm]

Things I like about firefox.

I think it is better at blocking pop ups.
It loads things faster and caches better that IE.

Things I don't really like.

I have a tendecy to randomly right click...this brings up that box and it doesn't go away most of the time due to the way I kind of drag the mouse around. I actually have to select and option on the menu just to make it disappear.
While 1.5 handles animated gifs better it is still far from great. When scrolling by huge pictures or even shlups sig it slows down the scroll and makes it kind of choppy.

Those are my big things. Tabbed browsing does not impress me. I have no problem keeping track of 15 windows on the task bar.

I can't wait till IE 7. That should be a nice big step forward considering we have been using 6 for the past 5 years.

[eestlinc]

*downloads Firefox 1.5*

EDIT: Okay, I have a problem. It seems that MeasureIt 0.3.3 and fireFTP 0.88.3 have now been disabled for me because they are not compatible with Firefox 1.5. Any suggestions for this Yams? Dr Unne? Anyone? :(
I think you just have to wait for someone to code it for 1.5. I remember cl_out specifically mentioning it would stop working if you upgraded.

I have disliked IE for as long as I've been using it, which is a long time, 7 or 8 years. When I learned of Firefox I downloaded it because I was eager to finally stop using IE (since Netscape had started sucking some time ago). Sometimes Firefox sucks too, and sometimes I use IE when I want to view or use a page that is coded only to work in IE, but I avoid using IE as much as possible.

None of this makes you stupid for using IE, but it gets old when we say "look, new version of Firefox" and all the anti-Firefox people start making fun of us. People should stop being so negative about everything. If you want to sulk, go do it out of my way, and stop trying to spread it to everyone else. Staff members are the only members obligated to read any thread here. So if you see a Firefox thread, and you can't stand seeing people talk about new software releases, go read the X-2 forum instead.

[Leeza]

Thanks, eest. :) Upon further reading I found that they already have fireFTP ready to go for 1.5, but they had to wait till it was officially released so it should be up soon.

[Miriel]

I don't care if Firefox loads faster or sings Christmas carols or whatever else you guys are going on about.

Firefox has tab browsing. And that's all that matters. Once you try it, you can never go back.

[Del Murder]

I don't have a need for it because I only view one page at a time.

What is the difference between tabbed browsing and 'open page in new window'?

[Karl]

firefox or internet explorer as in the blue e that comes with every computer? THATS what ie and firefox is? doesnt anyone get an isp and use the browser they provide?

[Rusty]

I will never use Firefox. Use Maxthon! For all those who refuse to use Firefox. It has everything Firefox has, like tab browsing. It's based on the IE browser.

[Endless]

I will never use Firefox. Use Maxthon! It has everything Firefox has, like tab browsing. It's based on the IE browser.

It's not "based on", it's IE, to which they added some features like tabbed browsing, pop-up blocking and mouse gestures. I've used it, but imho, firefox just is better (never crashed on me, for example), and is more secure.

[Rusty]

It's not "based on", it's IE, to which they added some features like tabbed browsing, pop-up blocking and mouse gestures.

That's what I meant :)

[Dignified Pauper]

the title of this thread is the second best part about it!

All hail firefox, the elite browsing tool!

[Resha]

I hate Firefox.

I've been using IE for three years (lol YES! DON'T DIE OF HORROR, KIDS!) and I never experienced one problem in all those three. One day someone says to me, "Download Firefox *winkwink* ;)" and oh, gullible child that I am, I do so.

Now, it could just be a coincedence. Really. (:rolleyes2) I know it has 'superior' security.

But I don't really care, not three Trojans and a stupid worm later. :laugh: And now I'm back with my baby, IE, and it's so sweet to me. <3

[Loony BoB]

To all those saying that people who refuse to use Firefox should not be posting in this thread: If this thread was purely to let everyone know about Firefox, it would have died in a day because it would been closed for being an announcement rather than a discussion thread. The topic is basically 'talk about Firefox'. So far I haven't seen any posts that aren't discussing Firefox - be it positive or negative - so I don't see why anyone should be told to stop posting. Just because you don't like what you read doesn't mean they have to stop. Thanks for your time.

Okay, now to the people who replied to me...

rubah: Oh, in that case, I can't remember the last time Explorer crashed on me at all. The crashes I've had were blue pages of death.

Raist: Security holes are found with Firefox. To say there are no security problems at all with any browser is pretty sad, in my opinion, because it's like saying a system is 100% perfect, which no system is. Do I have the facts with me now? No, but I've had people tell me about spyware they got through Firefox, and that's enough for me to believe that Firefox has a security problem. I've also heard people talking about security problems with Firefox in the past. Just because they're extremely rare doesn't mean they don't exist. Also, it's well known that MS, despite having security holes being revealed on a regular occasion, DO have some of the best coders working for them in the world. When some of Windows' source code was accidentally released, people picked up on some flaws but it was still written in reviews of it that the code was extremely well written. But it still has countless holes being revealed in it on an almost monthly basis, if not daily. That's because hackers all over the world do target it. And I do believe that if the 99% of hackers that target MS products were to instead target Mozilla, Mozilla would indeed have massive amounts of problems pointed out to them within time. Unless you're saying that Mozilla employs better coders than Microsoft, which frankly I would find very hard to believe.

PiP: Damned straight! I'm yet to receive all the thanks from the Firefox users, though. C'mon, guys, I'm saving your PC's bacon, here.

People need to stop pointing out the whole tabbed browsing thing because it's not a selling point for a lot of people. So they say "But it can be disabled!" - does that make it any cooler for people who don't want it? I mean, if I don't want to use something, I don't give half a damn that I might have the option, much like I don't give half a damn that IE has the option of the integrated spellchecker on the top right of this reply window I'm looking at right now. If someone doesn't want to use it, don't debate how awesome it is with them. :p I'm not saying don't point it out at all, I'm just saying that debating that someone should use Firefox because of that option with someone who doesn't care about the option anyway is kind of silly, don't you think?

Unne is right that IE is not better than Firefox. But edc seems to be pointing out flaws with Firefox. So far I think that edc is the most unbias person in this thread, because he's pointed out good and bad things about Firefox. I've done the same, and I like to think that I'm not being bias. I admit the faults, I'm just saying that for a lot of people, the benefits do not outweight the faults for their personal desires when using a browser.

I've so far not found anything that IE can't do that Firefox can do that I actually want in a browser. IE runs all the games I play via browser, all the sites I've gone to function fine with it, it doesn't crash, it loads as fast as the site I'm using will allow it to load... speaking of which, I don't understand the load-time thing, as last I checked, load-time is determined more so by the website you are browsing and the connection you have rather than the browser. I've never had a problem with load times because of my browser, at least not that I know of. If I have a slow load time with a site, I click into another site and see how fast that loads, and generally the next site will load immediately and I'll know that it's just a slow site rather than my connection bumming out. Definitely wouldn't say I've ever had a problem with IE loading slowly. Maybe people say it's faster with Firefox because Firefox doesn't run all the tags that are associated with IE? In which case it's not a fault of IE loading slowly, it's a case of IE having more to load.

[Miriel]

IE doesn't support PNG or alpha transparency images. That's a pretty big deal if you ask me or any other graphic designer. =/

[Loony BoB]

Despite not supporting them, it seems to show them up perfectly fine on my screen whenever I view them. Well, PNG files at the least. I don't know what alpha transparency means, but if it's anything to do with transparent backgrounds on gifs etc, then it works fine for me. Having said that, according to edc, Firefox doesn't work well with animated gif files. I would rather a file actually work well and not be supported than have a file supported but not work well.

[Miriel]

Well I know for sure than my signature doesn't show up the way it's supposed to with IE (there's a white-bluish border that shouldn't be there), and I've never had any trouble with GIFs on Firefox.

And seriously, tab browsing is like, beautiful.

[KuRt]

OK!

Firefox rules, even though im using IE at the moment
heathen!

[Levian]

Ok, I just want to say this:

Lindy <3

[Craig]

I tried Firefox once, and I didn't like it because it opened links when I clicked the scroll button on my mouse.

So I switched back to IE and then a pop-up bust in through my monitor and made out with hot babes all over my FACE!

[Psychotic]

I finally found a use for tabbed browsing: User notes! I'm a user note making machine with Firefox. Okay, that's given it an edge over IE now. Maybe I'll use it on my other computer too.

[Ultima Shadow]

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/8764/browserbattle10sa.jpg http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/1839/browserbattle24si.jpg

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/3315/browserbattle39rw.jpg http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/3921/browserbattle46rv.jpg

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/3820/browserbattle59ro.png

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/9397/browserbattle60gt.jpg http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/9231/browserbattle73ci.jpg

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/2992/browserbattle82yd.png

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/3329/browserbattle17so.jpg

[Psychotic]

Legend. I'm pretty neutral on the browser war, but that was godly.

[Old Manus]

owned

[Shoden]

It's true, Firefox is simply the better browser but that doresn't make Ie a hunk of bollocks.


Indeed AOL sucks and is the ebil of teh computer world!

[Leeza]

Despite not supporting them, it seems to show them up perfectly fine on my screen whenever I view them. Well, PNG files at the least. I don't know what alpha transparency means, but if it's anything to do with transparent backgrounds on gifs etc, then it works fine for me. Having said that, according to edc, Firefox doesn't work well with animated gif files. I would rather a file actually work well and not be supported than have a file supported but not work well.
You might have noticed rubah's sig with the smilie that she had before the one she has now? With Firefox it was a beautiful smilie, but when I viewed it from work on IE, it is a big box in an off colour that should have been transparent with a smile in it. Not very pretty.

[Kirobaito]

I don't care if Firefox loads faster or sings Christmas carols or whatever else you guys are going on about.

Firefox has tab browsing. And that's all that matters. Once you try it, you can never go back.
But can you <i>imagine</i> how awesome it would be to have Firefox sing Christmas Carols? Somebody make me an extension for that. <i>Now</i>.

[Mitch]

What's the only real use for the internet? That's right, it's porn. IE and Firefox both cater for this so there is no need to fight.

[rubah]

You might have noticed rubah's sig with the smilie that she had before the one she has now? With Firefox it was a beautiful smilie, but when I viewed it from work on IE, it is a big box in an off colour that should have been transparent with a smile in it. Not very pretty.
:]


rubah: Oh, in that case, I can't remember the last time Explorer crashed on me at all. The crashes I've had were blue pages of death.

I think I have had. . . one? bsod since using computers. (1997) and I'm almost certain that was on win95.

Seriously, the first time I saw one was on a friend's computer using ME.

[escobert]

Firefox 1.5 released!

Internet geeks scream in joy!

Normal people pay no attention.
:D

[Loony BoB]

You might have noticed rubah's sig with the smilie that she had before the one she has now? With Firefox it was a beautiful smilie, but when I viewed it from work on IE, it is a big box in an off colour that should have been transparent with a smile in it. Not very pretty.
I don't remember it. :( Does anyone have an example image I can look at?

[Endless]

I don't remember it. :( Does anyone have an example image I can look at?

Miriel's sig in FireFox:
http://lopez.famille.free.fr/images/miriel_sig_ff.gif

Miriel's sig in IE:
http://lopez.famille.free.fr/images/miriel_sig_ie.gif

[Loony BoB]

Oh right. Weird. I see pictures with transparency all the time (smilies, for example). Why do they work but that one doesn't? File type?

EDIT: File type it is.

[Miriel]

Here's a better example of how IE butchers PNG transparency.

ZeZipster's old sig in Firefox:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/hannahgoesrawr/pngsig2.jpg

ZeZipster's old sig in Internet Explorer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/hannahgoesrawr/Pngsig.jpg

Haven't you ever seen these images and thought, why the hell is it so ugly? It's all IE's fault.

[Loony BoB]

Haven't you ever seen these images and thought, why the hell is it so ugly?
I'm sorry, have you seen half of the sigs on display at EoFF?

[Old Manus]

My sig has a stupid blue box around it in IE

[crashNUMBERS]

Because of the link. I can see it here on Fire Fox...

[Raistlin]

I'm sorry, have you seen half of the sigs on display at EoFF?
lolz

[Yamaneko]

Why do you think I have them turned off?

[Primus Inter Pares]

Wait, then how does my sig appear in IE?

[XxSephirothxX]

All the areas that are supposed to be transparent show up as brown for me in IE. :p

[Primus Inter Pares]

Wow, that must look so crap, everyone should use Firefox and Fluffy Puff, then my sig looks half decent.

[ZeZipster]

Wow, that must look so crap, everyone should use Firefox and Fluffy Puff, then my sig looks half decent.

I didn't even notice your sig had down-syndrome in IE. My cell phone's browser even supports alpha transparency, it seems.