Bleach and the Gotei 13 (spoilers) [Archive] - Eyes on Final Fantasy Forums

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-07-2005, 06:13 AM

All right, I'm on a major Bleach kick right now, so I figure I need to make at least one of these threads or I'll go crazy.

Anyways, of the Gotei 13 (the thirteen captains in the Soul Society), who's your particular favorite? Also, do tell us why.

I realize I'm probably not going to get too many responses, but that's OK. It just means that Bleach is too good for you.

Former captains are also included in this poll.

edczxcvbnm

12-07-2005, 08:17 PM

I pick sandle hat! I started watching Bleach probably a month ago...I am 100% caught up in the anime and the manga now :erm:

black orb

12-07-2005, 10:01 PM

>>> 11th Division captain: Zaraki Kenpachi, hands down..
He is all about fights, and more fights. Also I like how he handicap himself in order to make fights more appealing..
plus 11th Division has a lot of funny weirdos and the Liutenant is cute.

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-07-2005, 10:08 PM

Kisuke is definitely a favorite of mine. I want to see his Bankai quite badly.

edczxcvbnm

12-07-2005, 10:59 PM

You know it is probably going to come out eventually. I want to see Ichimaru Gin's. As far as I know he has not ever released it. I would very much wonder what Rukia's is like also because her normal soul slayer is quite powerful.

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-08-2005, 05:09 AM

I don't think Rukia has Bankai, only Shikai.

Renji was placed ahead of her, and while it is true that she was held back from promotions by Byakuya, Bankai is a rare ability, and I don't think she's had that much training.

But then I could be wrong.

Gin's Bankai would be interesting to see, my guess is it would have to do with the firing of a lot of blades, since the Bankai seems to follow the zanpakuto's general theme.

black orb

12-08-2005, 05:35 AM

>>> I was kind of dissapointed with Ichigo`s Bankai, it was powerful and all but it wasnt impressive as the others..

I cant wait to see some serious Hollow action. That Menos Grande episode still my favorite.

edczxcvbnm

12-08-2005, 05:38 AM

I think Rukai does have Bankai. Remember that Kenpachi is the ONLY captain to never reach Bankai. If she is held back because of her brother I assume that she more than most likely would have it ;)

Gin's could be firing lots of blades but didn't Tousen do a technique similar to that when fighting Kenpachi? I think it will differ and be something crazy strong.

We have not really seen the full extent of Ichigo's Bankai. Remember that he said Zangetsu only taught him one ability. There is probably a lot more to it but due to lack of training and time it really only powered him up.

black orb

12-08-2005, 05:45 AM

>>> Kenpachi doesnt even have Shikai and he still kick ass, he is just that awesome..
And I dont think Rukia has Bankai, she has a major role in the plot but in terms of fighting abilities she is just a small fry..

edczxcvbnm

12-08-2005, 05:47 AM

I don't think so. She kicks all sorts of fucking ass. Also it is explain that Kenpachi's Soul Slayer is always in Shikai mode just like Ichigo's.

black orb

12-08-2005, 05:54 AM

>>> Wait a minute, the soul slayer has 3 stages:
The bare ass (thats how kenpachi calls it) mode, which is just a normal soul slayer..
The Shikai mode, which comes after you put a name to the soul slayer..
and finally Bankai.

Rukia wasnt able to defeat Renji in their first encounter, thats why I think she isnt that powerful..

edczxcvbnm

12-08-2005, 06:00 AM

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-08-2005, 06:16 AM

Rukia had basically no power when Renji came after her in the first one, and she wouldn't have fought him anyways.

Rukia is really strong, as is evidenced by her easy defeat of the Arrankar, but I don't think she has a Bankai. Yet.

Also, it's possible that Zaraki's zanpakuto is still in its first form and has that appearance. Ichigo's normal zanpakuto was a large blade, Kyouraku's is two swords, Soi Fong's is a shorter blade, Gin's is a wakizashi, Hitsugaya's is a nodachi, etc. etc..

There are zanpakuto in normal forms that look different. Hell it's even speculated that Nanao's zanpakuto is her book.

If Rukia were able to use Bankai, I think they would have referenced that she was at a captain's level. If that were true, she would have done a lot better against the Hollow she fought when she first met Ichigo, it wouldn't have even been able to harm her (remember, if their spiritual energy is high enough, they wouldn't even be touchable by the attack of a weak hollow like that). I'd say she's pretty strong, but not at the Bankai level. Though that doesn't necessarily mean she won't use it.

And on Ichigo, Hollow Ichigo can use a lot more attacks with both the Shikai and the Bankai forms of Zangetsu, so that implies that Ichigo just doesn't have full mastery of it. Look what Byakuya was able to do with HIS Bankai after all. There's probably a lot more he doesn't know with regards to Zangetsu.

black orb

12-08-2005, 06:19 AM

While Kenpachi's Slayer looks like it is in bare ass mode it isn't. It is all jagged among other things. It is in Shikai mode all the time. I think he now knows the name of his Soul Slayer also because he got it back after it had been destoried in the fight with Ichigo.
>>> When Ken fought Ichigo he didnt had a name for his soul slayer, he says that in the anime.. After the battle against Ichigo, who knows maybe he has something new hidden under his sleeve..

Rukia is hella strong. Lastest chapters of the Manga are a testiment to that. I am not sure what encounter you are refering to with Renji though.
>>> My mistake (that didnt count as a fight at all), I was talking about Renji and her brother trying to retrieve Rukia for the execution, but that didnt count as a fight because Rukia didnt has her Shinigami powers so she couldnt fight back..

edczxcvbnm

12-08-2005, 06:21 AM

black orb

12-08-2005, 06:26 AM

And on Ichigo, Hollow Ichigo can use a lot more attacks with both the Shikai and the Bankai forms of Zangetsu, so that implies that Ichigo just doesn't have full mastery of it. Look what Byakuya was able to do with HIS Bankai after all. There's probably a lot more he doesn't know with regards to Zangetsu.
>>> You got me there, Im just following the anime so I dont know about the later manga chapters..

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-08-2005, 06:37 AM

I will find out where they talk about Kenpachi's Soul Slayer tomarrow. I am almost positive that it is mentioned during the fight with Ichigo. We will see about that bankai for rukia also. Remember how baldy lost to Ichigo? Yeah. I agree that it is kind of whacky that Rukia would lose that that hollow in the beginning of it all also but MANGA SPOILERS! Isn't it also equally retarded that his family including his dad...the Shinigami, got beat up by that weak hollow also?

Zaraki hasn't yet discovered the name of his zanpakuto, so far as we know. However, it seems somewhat implied that he might at least be able to use Shikai right now, since he asked it about its name and apologized for being so late after Ichigo defeated him.

And, I get the feeling that Isshin knew what was going to happen, so he was just biding his time. He probably wanted to see what would happen with his son coming in contact with a Shinigami, but he would have defeated the hollow if it got too far. Grand Fisher was a lot stronger than that hollow, especially since Ichigo, having just gained the power, defeated it easily whereas he never did defeat Grand Fisher.

>>> You got me there, Im just following the anime so I dont know about the later manga chapters..

You see that when he fights Byakuya where he uses it much more efficiently, and also when Ichigo fought his hollow self in the middle of the Zaraki fight and it used the move where it twirls Zangetsu above its head and throws it at him. I know Ichigo can twirl it now, but I don't know if he can throw it like that yet. All he really knows is the shockwave attack.

black orb

12-08-2005, 06:48 AM

>>> Something that really intrigue me is that hollow mask (that one when Ichigo almost turns into a hollow) that saved Ichi`s life a couple of times..

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-08-2005, 06:52 AM

To what point in the episodes have you seen? If you haven't seen up to 59, this may be something of a spoiler, so 'twill be wrapped. Might also be because it's touched more on in the manga. Anyway...

The mask represents Ichigo's hollow side. He actually does have a hollow personality, that's what came out in the fight with Byakuya and it was born in the instant he regained his powers from inside the shattered shaft. If Ichigo dies, the hollow Ichigo dies too, so there's good reason for it to keep him alive. You note that it gets thrown away several times but keeps coming back. It's not something he can get away from.

black orb

12-08-2005, 06:58 AM

>>> The latest ep I saw was 58, so Im about to see that..

Hey Void, have you read the "Zombie Powder" manga?, its almost as good as Bleach but is way more short..

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-08-2005, 03:04 PM

Zombie Powder? Can't say I have. What's it about?

KuRt

12-08-2005, 03:24 PM

Kyoraku Shunsui all teh way!

black orb

12-08-2005, 04:20 PM

Zombie Powder? Can't say I have. What's it about?
>>> You can say its something like Bleach predecessor, it was serialized in Shonen Jump just like Bleach but it didnt become that huge.. Of course this manga is from the same creator of Bleach.
BTW here a link. http://www.toriyamaworld.com/zombiepowder

Shoden

12-08-2005, 05:07 PM

Kenpachi, he's a monster, I dunno how Ichigo managed to beat him, no matter how much he was stabbed he didn't seem to flinch and he enjoyed it.

Bleach kicks real ass, I've read up to chapter 206.

EliteSasuke

12-08-2005, 05:45 PM

well personally I will most likely destroy this dispute cause when it comes to anime I remember just about everything. Ok so first I would just like to say Zarachi Kenpachi or Urahara Kisuke is my favorite of the 13, second, this thing about Rukia. Ok it is said that in Soul Society one major thing that is needed to become a captain is the ability to call out Bankai. Rukia isn't a captain for if you look at the very first episode when she makes Ichigo into a Shinigami, she is wearing a normal shinigami kimono (Black with White). Though it is true that Byakuya is keeping Rukia back from rank, it isn't true that he is keeping her back from ability. So in all logic, if she had bankai she would have used in the 60 episodes that are avaliable. As for the Manga that is like 4,000,000 episodes ahead I don't know. Another instance is when Byakuya says to Ichigo "Watch your tounge, you make it sound as if you have acheived Bankai" and Ichigo replys "Who said I didn't?" Rukia looks surprised as if Ichigo has done something that not even she, herself, could do. And One other fact is that when Urahara Kisuke makes Ichigo go through the chain of death training he frees Rukia's Shinigami Powers so Rukia got them back, so don't tell me she doesn't have her powers cause she does, and now Ichigo has his own. Now that I have brought forth this interesting data I rule that Rukia does not have a Bankai. Oh and as the Hollow mask of Ichigo goes, The Evil portion wants control of ichigo that is why he kept saving his life before and that is why he took over Ichigo's Body in 59, I think it was.

edczxcvbnm

12-08-2005, 06:24 PM

Rukia may have gotten her powers back but due to her confinement in that holding cell she still has not regained enough spiritual energy to do anything. That is clearly explained and it takes time to regain all of those powers. She is surprised that Ichigo has reached Bankai because he went from near dead to learning Bankai in less than 2 weeks. That is completely unheard of when it has taken everyone else years to learn it.

I still say she has it. I am still at work so I can't reply about Kenpachi yet. To help move things along on that front does anyone know what episode or chapter someone mentions that Ichigo's Soul Slayer is special in that it is always in mode 2?

On an awesome side note....Death God Illustrated Guide Golden is always hilarious. I can't wait for more of that intense soccer match next week XD

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-08-2005, 08:33 PM

I believe Kisuke talks about it, or possibly Zaraki. I know it's been mentioned somewhere, I just don't remember where.

edczxcvbnm

12-08-2005, 08:49 PM

Crap...well I looked through the manga last night through all of Vol 13 to see if it was there and it wasn't. I know for sure they mention Ichigo's. Maybe it was when Yorichi talks to Ichigo about Bankai.

Resha

12-08-2005, 10:29 PM

I love Bleach; haven't finished watching though. I'll go with Kuchiki. Such an awesome name! xD Just try saying it: Kuchiki Kuchiki Kuchiki RUKIIIAAA

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-08-2005, 10:31 PM

I think it is Yoriuchi that says it. I'll have to go over the episodes and check for sure.

Edit: Yoriuchi explains about halfway through episode 42 that Ichigo's zanpakuto is constantly released. Ichigo does compare his with Zaraki's but Yoriuchi goes on to explain that Zaraki is the only one to have ever become captain without even knowing his Zanpakuto's name, much less achieving Bankai. You cannot achieve Shikai without knowing the Zanpakuto's name, as Renji explains when he first faces Ichigo, so, at least at the time when Zaraki faces Ichigo, he doesn't know his Zanpakuto's name and does not have Shikai.

edczxcvbnm

12-09-2005, 06:12 AM

I am also watching 38 and at around 19 minutes Kenpachi explains that

"The reason I don't seal my soul slayer is because my spirit force is so huge I couldn't seal it, even if I held it in as hard as I could."

Sounds like it is at the next level to me.

A lot of the stuff we are argueing can go either way it seems. They seem to imply things both ways in a lot of situations to keep you guessing.

black orb

12-09-2005, 06:32 AM

>>> Here are two links with all the captain`s info..
the anime
http://bleach7.com/index.php?page=information/guide/anime

the manga
http://bleach7.com/index.php?page=information/guide/manga

As you can see, Zaraki does not has Shikai or Bankai..

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-09-2005, 06:50 AM

Also supported here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenpachi_Zaraki).

I don't think Zaraki has attained Shikai if for no other reason than the fact that Tito Kube probably wants him to pull the Shikai out and start slaughtering people later, and the pull out a Bankai and go on an absolute killing fest. Excessive violence is his forte, after all.

edczxcvbnm

12-09-2005, 07:20 AM

Who knows for sure. Even if he does have his shikai he isn't working with the sword in the first place. Remember when Ichigo started to work with the sword to over come Kenpachi. That is just Kenpachi's power alone. Actually working with his sword would give off more power and different abilities.

Enough talk about this or else it will turn into this thread of death

http://forums.narutofan.com/archive/index.php/t-66040.html

That was just in my own search. It goes on forever and there are basically two groups of pepole. Those who believe in the rules set forth by the soul slayers and those who take what Kenpachi and Ichigo say as fact. One group says Kenpachi and Ichigo are ignorant of soul slayers. The other one say there are always exceptions to rules.

I disregard the fansite because we are already using the quotes from the show/manga. They know what we know and don't have 'insider information' that makes them the end all be all source.

I agree with what one person there said though. Either way...it will be intersting to see how things play out. BTW the new chapter is out.

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-09-2005, 07:32 AM

And a good chapter at that.

Which reminds me, any theories on Ururu, Jinta and Tessa?

edczxcvbnm

12-09-2005, 07:37 AM

I always thought they were mod souls like Kon.

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-09-2005, 07:58 AM

Seems that way with Ururu in the most recent chapter. Can mod souls use the powerful Kidou that Tessa commands, though?

edczxcvbnm

12-09-2005, 08:11 AM

I don't see why not considering how strong Ururu was in this chapter. The specialties of mod souls and what their limitations are had not gone into a lot of depth. I am sure Urahara will come out next chapter and put an end to stuff and maybe even explain all of this. It has got to be coming in the next few chapters.