how many of you are cheap?

[Shin Gouken]

There are tools in the game that are given purely for those who have difficulty with this type of game but are their so they can enjoy it too. But they are commenly used for cheaply defeating the bosses added in the game for those who are in fact really good at this type of game.


Im thinking of two mainly. In ffviii there were invincible granting weapons given. And in ffvii there was knights of the round. These im sure are their to help those who are less skilled then most but are used to cheaply kill the bosses designed for the more so skilled of us (i think im repeating myself)

Its 3:12 in the morning and i am tired but this is bugging me slightly

who here is cheap and if you are why?

[raskerino]

I don't use invincibility or one hit destroy moves.

I spurn cheepness in FFVIII (at least I have for the last two playthroughs), meaning I don't abuse "the end," invincible items, or angel wings- I'm not good with Armeggadon Fist anyway so that doesn't matter much.

In FFVII, I have used KoTR and abused the materia system pretty heavily. I don't use Cait Sith's one move win.

In FFIX I don't like 9999 moves, not always because there cheep (arguably) but becasue I'm too lazy to level it up.

FFX I play through pretty normally.

FFX-2 there is no point to cheep things because it's so easy except catnip in via infinito, which I do use, as that dungeon is so pointlessly long.

FFT is not too difficult a game, I never made uber setups but accumulated enough (I didn't know about Yell, I think I left the squire to early in my one and only playthrough).

Outside of the FF series I will usually not abuse anything until I've beaten the boss without it.

Edit: Also I don't always abuse cheep things, some plays I will, some I won't.

[ljkkjlcm9]

I don't see how anything programmed into the game is cheap, the W-item trick is cheap, because it's a programming error, KoTR is not cheap because it was meant to be there.

THE JACKEL

[Shin Gouken]

I don't see how anything programmed into the game is cheap, the W-item trick is cheap, because it's a programming error, KoTR is not cheap because it was meant to be there.

THE JACKEL


did you even read the rest of my post?

i believe Kotr was placed in the game so people who are less skilled can still enjoy the game and its ending. its fair to obtain this if you are good at the game, and enjoy it at your disposal. but i do not believe it was intended for cheap use against the optional bosses. the optional bosses were addad as challenges for the best ff players, so abusing a weapon added for the less skilled is by far a very cheap thing to do

[Starboard Regulator FlareNUKE]

Or maybe a reward for getting a Gold Chocobo and being hidden, if it was meant for helping those new at the game, it would not be hidden and you not need to spend time breeding a Gold Chocobo...

[Shin Gouken]

Or maybe a reward for getting a Gold Chocobo and being hidden, if it was meant for helping those new at the game, it would not be hidden and you not need to spend time breeding a Gold Chocobo...


that doesnt explain invincibilty items in ffviii though. And Kotr kills most things after a single summon, meaning no work at all. And if i remember rightly, the game punishes those who kill bosses using Kotr by giving sephiroth more HP.

[ljkkjlcm9]

I don't care if you think it's an item for less skilled players and that makes it cheap. You can THINK whatever you want. But an item programmed into the game that you can get without any cheating, doesn't constitute it being cheap.

THE JACKEL

[Shin Gouken]

I don't care if you think it's an item for less skilled players and that makes it cheap. You can THINK whatever you want. But an item programmed into the game that you can get without any cheating, doesn't constitute it being cheap.

THE JACKEL


your obviously very cheap then

[RaidenWeb17]

alright guys calm down. I do agree with ljkkjlcm9 on this though. If its in the game and not a programming error. Then its not cheap. But I do like to not use some of the summons like KotR and I never used the invincibility items in FF8 (I just used Aura instead and no I havent beaten Omega Weapon) but the 9999 moves in FF9 are definitly not cheap as it takes forever to level them up except for Freya's Dragon Crest, that ones kinda easy. But I still agree with ljkkjlcm9.

[ljkkjlcm9]

your obviously very cheap then
don't assume, I've beaten the weapons in FFVII without KoTR, and I've also beaten Omega in FFVIII without invincibility, but I don't think they're cheap items.

THE JACKEL

[Shin Gouken]

don't assume, I've beaten the weapons in FFVII without KoTR, and I've also beaten Omega in FFVIII without invincibility, but I don't think they're cheap items.

THE JACKEL


they are "considered" cheap because once obtained, they are relied upon for beating enemies designed to be a challenge. hardly a challenge if your invincable or have two doezen Kotr at you disposal.


please understand, im not saying that these tools are cheap, im saying that how they are used is cheap.

[Starcrest]

you didn't imply that in the beginning. I know really good players at FFVIII that have used the invicibility items before on Omega weapon and still lost, it's stratgey on HOW to use them. If you keep spamming them, yeah, but if you use one or two to stop someone who's almost dead from dying so you can heal them, is that cheap? No, it's smart. As for KOTR, I myself have never gotten it (to lazy to raise gold choco) but I didn't need it to beat the optional bosses. I know another good FFVII player, and probably a lot more out there, that need him to defeat the two optional weapons. It doesn't mean your bad, it means they're hard. And using KOTR to kill the weapons doesn't give sephy more health, your level does. So if you level up high enough to even be able to kill the weapons w/o KOTR, then you screwed yourself, it wasn't the summon

[Shin Gouken]

you didn't imply that in the beginning. I know really good players at FFVIII that have used the invicibility items before on Omega weapon and still lost, it's stratgey on HOW to use them. If you keep spamming them, yeah, but if you use one or two to stop someone who's almost dead from dying so you can heal them, is that cheap? No, it's smart. As for KOTR, I myself have never gotten it (to lazy to raise gold choco) but I didn't need it to beat the optional bosses. I know another good FFVII player, and probably a lot more out there, that need him to defeat the two optional weapons. It doesn't mean your bad, it means they're hard. And using KOTR to kill the weapons doesn't give sephy more health, your level does. So if you level up high enough to even be able to kill the weapons w/o KOTR, then you screwed yourself, it wasn't the summon



read again

you cant heal some-one under invincibility

they are supposed to be hard. they were their to challenge the best of us

i didnt say the weapons. i believe using Kotr on jenova gives sephy more health

[Christmas]

normal circumstances - Safer Sephiroth has 80,000

Three characters lvl 99 - Safer Sephiroth's HP 170,000 HP ~ HP 190,000

If you use KOTR too on Jenova∙SYNTHESIS, Safer Sephiroth will has 400,000 HP.


Besides, as for these cheap items(Holy Wars, KOTR...), it is not like they appear on our inventory right in the begining or they are just brought from the shop.

We worked to get them so why can't we just use what we were rewarded from our hard work. It is one personally preferences that he or she want a challenges.

[Shin Gouken]

normal circumstances - Safer Sephiroth has 80,000

Three characters lvl 99 - Safer Sephiroth's HP 170,000 HP ~ HP 190,000

If you use KOTR too on Jenova∙SYNTHESIS, Safer Sephiroth will has 400,000 HP.


Besides, as for these cheap items(Holy Wars, KOTR...), it is not like they appear on our inventory right in the begining or they are just brought from the shop.

We worked to get them so why can't we just use what we were rewarded from our hard work. It is one personally preferences that he or she want a challenges.


right, so for all that hard work of breeding a gold chocobo to get Kotr to defeat ruby and get another gold chocobo isnt cheap? i believe the reward for defeating ruby would be Kotr. how many people here obtained Kotr because they couldnt defeat ruby? and if they dont want a challenge then why even fight ruby? the reward would be something you spent several hours getting already.

basically, why use cheap methods to defeat bosses that are OPTIONAL and intended for a challenge?

[Christmas]

It is one personally preferences that he or she want a challenges

[Shin Gouken]

but theres no reason to fight them if you dont want a challenge as they are optional

[Christmas]

Optional don't alway mean it is a challenge. It is something you wanna do or don't do.

[Shin Gouken]

Optional don't alway mean it is a challenge. It is something you wanna do or don't do.


they were blatently intended for a challenge

[Christmas]

There are a lot of different "ways" and "methods" to overcome a challenge.

[Shin Gouken]

There are a lot of different "ways" and "methods" to overcome a challenge.


by being cheap?

[Christmas]

Besides, as for these cheap items(Holy Wars, KOTR...), it is not like they appear on our inventory right in the begining or they are just brought from the shop.

We worked to get them so why can't we just use what we were rewarded from our hard work.

[Starcrest]

or not do 'em

[raskerino]

by being cheap?

Shinangel, it's not necassarily cheep, it's what people feel like doing- and that's okay, and you don't need to attack that every second. These games are not especially difficult, I could call the junction system cheep- with 255 vitality you're incredibly hard to hurt. It's not hard to get 2000+ life (tents made into curagas) and do a whole bunch of damage (good spells aren't hard to pick up) before leaving for Timber. Is this cheep? depends on your opinion. Should you be allowed to? sure why not, it's fun to do if you feel like it and for me makes the game more enjoyable. Should you constantly call people cheep for utilizing any of these things? no, though you can say that it could be more difficult, but then do a challenge instead of calling people cheep. Do Ultima Shadow's challenge or Hyprophant's or one of your own.

[Shin Gouken]

Shinangel, it's not necassarily cheep, it's what people feel like doing- and that's okay, and you don't need to attack that every second. These games are not especially difficult, I could call the junction system cheep- with 255 vitality you're incredibly hard to hurt. It's not hard to get 2000+ life (tents made into curagas) and do a whole bunch of damage (good spells aren't hard to pick up) before leaving for Timber. Is this cheep? depends on your opinion. Should you be allowed to? sure why not, it's fun to do if you feel like it and for me makes the game more enjoyable. Should you constantly call people cheep for utilizing any of these things? no, though you can say that it could be more difficult, but then do a challenge instead of calling people cheep. Do Ultima Shadow's challenge or Hyprophant's or one of your own.


hmmmmm everyone seems to be missing the vital point in my arguement. The game can be played however anyone wants. But seriously why bother fighting an optional boss that was designed to be challenging and killing it with a cheap tactic that a three year old could do. this is cheap because it destroys what the makers were trying to do and the whole point of adding the challenge in the first place.

[raskerino]

as lots have said, because you feel like it or choose to. That answers your question, if you want it to be easier and don't consider it cheep that could be what you do, it's part of the game, you may beat it like that first and then decide to challenge yourself further. This question has been constantly answered you just don't like that answer.

Edit: At leat that's how it looks to me.

[Christmas]

hmmmmm everyone seems to be missing the vital point in my arguement. The game can be played however anyone wants. But seriously why bother fighting an optional boss that was designed to be challenging and killing it with a cheap tactic that a three year old could do. this is cheap because it destroys what the makers were trying to do and the whole point of adding the challenge in the first place.

The makers made those "cheap" items you are talking about in the first place.

[Shin Gouken]

as lots have said, because you feel like it or choose to. That answers your question, if you want it to be easier and don't consider it cheep that could be what you do, it's part of the game, you may beat it like that first and then decide to challenge yourself further. This question has been constantly answered you just don't like that answer.

Edit: At leat that's how it looks to me.


most answers have ignored the point entirely and answered questions that arent even there. your the first to comment on what i stated in my original post and the majority from there on. The optional challenging bosses were my primary concern. I still believe they are cheaply beaten by the majority but of course those who do wouldnt see it that way.

the optional bosses are pretty much what i live for which is why i made this thread in the first place. i dont think people even know why they were put there in the firstplace. They have no place in the story and are there purely to challenge exceptional ff gamers. but if people dont think they are being cheap then let them think that. let them think they are fantastic at the named game, its no worry to me

[raskerino]

Why do you have to throw out lines like "let them think they are fantastic" show me evidence a lot of people think that, make little snide comments are what I've been talking about. Anyways, these bosses do have storyline value (FFVII's WEAPONS do at least) though not much, but just feel happy that you could beat it with more challenge. Don't make snide remarks about others. Anyways, congrats on beating it without KoTR or other strong moves! It's a nice achievement that's worth doing if you enjoy it.

[Christmas]

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=74871

This is cheap????? That dude uses KOTR.

[Starcrest]

firstly even though I know you were kidding, not many people can do the 'cheap tactic' that you speak of. I can't, simply because I don't wanna get a gold chocobo. But even if I did, I probably wouldn't be able to find w/summon and mime and all that other good stuff. So reall the challenge in using the 'cheap tactic' is finding the stuff in it's entirerty, KOTR, Mime, Final Attack, blah blah all those other good materia you think that are 'cheap' for being used in that manner. If you spent the hours, or maybe days for some, finding that stuff, you deserve to use 'em.

[ljkkjlcm9]

i still don't see how anything programmed into a game is cheap, that makes no sense to me, especially something that is so hard to obtain. Actually the Weapons were added after KoTR already existed(into the US version), so it's not like they put it in there to help people beat the weapons, so shush

THE JACKEL

[DJZen]

I'm cheap... just buy me dinner and I'm yours <3

[NeoCracker]

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=74871

This is cheap????? That dude uses KOTR.

Whoever came up with that tactic was a genious. Kudos to them.

And for Cheapness, people like doing these things because its fun. If i had the patience i would reinact the emerald/tifa fight.
The only thing i did that might be considered cheap is on Kefka in ff6, i powered up everyones magic with espers so ultima did 9999. Used Quick with eveyone and one person with the gem box, giving me 10 ultimas by the time everyone went. Also i had life 3 cast on my entire party the fight right before kefka to get around the wierd effect that guy uses on you. Though i myself wouldn't consider this cheap, but smart.

[Shin Gouken]

raskerino


Why do you have to throw out lines like "let them think they are fantastic" show me evidence a lot of people think that, make little snide comments are what I've been talking about. Anyways, these bosses do have storyline value (FFVII's WEAPONS do at least) though not much, but just feel happy that you could beat it with more challenge. Don't make snide remarks about others. Anyways, congrats on beating it without KoTR or other strong moves! It's a nice achievement that's worth doing if you enjoy it


I think you are taking my sarcasm, dryness and point black denial for something else. im not making personal attacks on anyone, these are my views. and were put forward accordingly until i received a less then adequete response from ljkkjlcm9, who less than politley told me i could think what i want and he doesnt care. Eoff to me has always come across as a site where people respect other peoples opinions, and held a certain amount of respect to them in regards to this, because its something i dont find in other sites. I almost thought i was back on LIM so forgive me


Christmas


This is cheap????? That dude uses KOTR.


i havnt time to watch this right now but i am sure you are proving that Kotr isnt always cheap. I respect that and understand it can be used avoiding the cheapness


Shiva's Effect


firstly even though I know you were kidding, not many people can do the 'cheap tactic' that you speak of. I can't, simply because I don't wanna get a gold chocobo. But even if I did, I probably wouldn't be able to find w/summon and mime and all that other good stuff. So reall the challenge in using the 'cheap tactic' is finding the stuff in it's entirerty, KOTR, Mime, Final Attack, blah blah all those other good materia you think that are 'cheap' for being used in that manner. If you spent the hours, or maybe days for some, finding that stuff, you deserve to use 'em.



you dont have to work to gain invicibility items in ffviii they are handed to you after an incredibley simple battle. And $toss (dont take this any further than my examplple im not wishing to start a new debate on whether this is cheap or not it is my opinion) is practically given to you in ffv. As for Kotr, its your reward for beating ruby, you should never have to breed a golden chocobo. That aside, yes, if you worked for it then its yours to use freely, but that doesnt mean that its not being used cheaply (again my opinion)


ljkkjlcm9


i still don't see how anything programmed into a game is cheap, that makes no sense to me, especially something that is so hard to obtain. Actually the Weapons were added after KoTR already existed(into the US version), so it's not like they put it in there to help people beat the weapons, so shush


no they made it as a reward for beating the weapons, maybe they thought it was cheap [srug] anyhoo, you are indeed a worthy adversary and i will take heed to your advice and shush (no sarcasm, i seem to be alone on this, im willing to accept defeat)


DJZen


I'm cheap... just buy me dinner and I'm yours <3

there is a micrwave meal in the fridge, help yourself


corncracker


And for Cheapness, people like doing these things because its fun. If i had the patience i would reinact the emerald/tifa fight.
The only thing i did that might be considered cheap is on Kefka in ff6, i powered up everyones magic with espers so ultima did 9999. Used Quick with eveyone and one
person with the gem box, giving me 10 ultimas by the time everyone went. Also i had life 3 cast on my entire party the fight right before kefka to get around the weird effect that guy uses on you. Though i myself wouldn't consider this cheap, but smart.

cheapness is down to opinion. there is usually one weapon/item/tool i can see in every final fantasy game which has been abused and cheaply used. Nobody needs more than one Kotr certainly no more than two at most. The people who fight endless hours of stealing from crystal dragons from ffv just so they can defeat shinryu when he is very simply beaten at level 40 without them (not to mention coral rings) only using the tools you have. And invincibilty items are lost on me, surely if you are invicible then you cannot lose ie your not playing a "game". but most people dont consider any of those things cheap. its opinion. i dont think you were cheap

[Slothy]

no they made it as a reward for beating the weapons, maybe they thought it was cheap [srug] anyhoo, you are indeed a worthy adversary and i will take heed to your advice and shush (no sarcasm, i seem to be alone on this, im willing to accept defeat)

I think you missed his point. The weapons weren't in the original Japanese release of FFVII, KotR was. It wasn't meant as a reward for beating them since they weren't added to the game until the American release. The intention was always that people would have to get a Gold Chocobo to get it. Therefore it's a reward for the hardwork involved in getting it, and regardless of what you may believe, having KotR doesn't mean that someone new to an FF game can go and easily beat the Weapons or Sephiroth (especially if he ends up with all that added HP). Someone who doesn't go in with the right strategy in those battles will likely still lose. And honestly, I doubt someone new to an FF game would be able to find it at all without a lot of time or help. It's a reward for those who take the time and effort to get it, not to make the game easier for those who can't hack it in the first place.


And invincibilty items are lost on me, surely if you are invicible then you cannot lose ie your not playing a "game". but most people dont consider any of those things cheap. its opinion. i dont think you were cheap

As I recall (though someone correct me if I'm wrong), those invincibility items are fairly random in how long they last. I've tried them before and had them last anywhere from a few minutes to a matter of seconds if I'm not mistaken. And again, they're not likely to guarentee victory. If you don't know what you're doing, you're still going to get killed. And in the case of the invincibility items, you still need to find the right cards to mod to get the best ones. I see it as a reward for those who are persistent in exploring every nook and cranny of the game. Frankly, the junction system is so easily exploitable if you know what you're doing though that invincibility items are rather pointless. And odds are, the people who know how to get these invincibility items also know the ins and outs of junctioning.

You say all these tools and things are cheap, but personally, I think they'd only be cheap if they were so overpowered that they guarenteed victory every time they were used. I can't think of a single one off the top of my head with the exception perhaps of the vanish/doom trick in FF6 that truly guarentees you'll win just about every battle. Many of these still require a certain amount of skill against the harder bosses if you want to avoid getting slaughtered.

[NeoCracker]

You say all these tools and things are cheap, but personally, I think they'd only be cheap if they were so overpowered that they guarenteed victory every time they were used. I can't think of a single one off the top of my head with the exception perhaps of the vanish/doom trick in FF6 that truly guarentees you'll win just about every battle. Many of these still require a certain amount of skill against the harder bosses if you want to avoid getting slaughtered.

Ah yes, the Vanish doom trick. IF only it worked on Kefka.
Back on point, i really don't have one. i just felt like posting.

Wait, i just thought of one. Whether or not a trick is considered cheap, i am likely to use it depending on the situation. I mean, i would have vanished/doom kefka in a heartbeat if they would let me. I say if they give you a cheap trick use it. Cheap, not cheap, who cares? I play mostly for the story anyway. And if the designers didn't want someone to find a way to easily beat certain people, they wouldn't program in such ways like Kotr or the invincible items. They are put there so that people will be able to think of different tactics that are more affective in the game then others. The only thing that i think is really cheap in a game is exploiting glitches, things that actually werent' ment to be there. Though thats my opinion, at least i think it is.

[Ultima Shadow]

I'm too lazy to read trough all your posts, so I'll just say what I think:

I consider, for example, using Zanmato to beat the Dark Aeons and Penance extremely "cheap".

That Zanmato was made into the game doesn't mean it can't be "cheap". It only means it's no "cheat". I don't have anything against people using it, however... from my point of view, they never actually "beat" them. In order to truely beat someone, you'll have to fight FAIR! :greenie:

I prefere to not use invincibility items, but they are far from being as cheap as instant-death moves.


But in the end... even whenever something's cheap or not is just up to personal opinions, I guess.

[Shin Gouken]

I'm too lazy to read trough all your posts, so I'll just say what I think:

I consider, for example, using Zanmato to beat the Dark Aeons and Penance extremely "cheap".

That Zanmato was made into the game doesn't mean it can't be "cheap". It only means it's no "cheat". I don't have anything against people using it, however... from my point of view, they never actually "beat" them. In order to truely beat someone, you'll have to fight FAIR! :greenie:

I prefere to not use invincibility items, but they are far from being as cheap as instant-death moves.


But in the end... even whenever something's cheap or not is just up to personal opinions, I guess.




18942

[Neco Arc]

Defend ability in FFVIII is "Cheap"....

[Ultima Shadow]

Defend ability in FFVIII is "Cheap"....Feel free to think it is, but could you tell me "why" you think it's cheap?

I really, really don't consider Defend anywhere near cheap. It does NOT make you invurnable + once you input another command, the effect of Defend dissapears. This doesn't give you an unfair advantage. Hero items, on the other hand, makes you completely invurnable and allows you to perform any action without losing the effect.

[Neco Arc]

i was being sarcastic, i guess

[Ultima Shadow]

i was being sarcastic, i guess
Ok. xD

:p

[Alexander]

I'm not cheap. I don't like to use those zOMG SO FUCKIN' DAMAGIN' MOVES, I like to suffer to beat bosses and hard enemies.

Of course, some of them are so easy that it doesn't matter if you are cheap or not. Li-grim in FFTA, NEcron in FFIX, all forms of Ultimecia in FFVIII... they are so easy even if I kill them using Firaga -__-''''