why does Adel look like a guy.

[Markus. D]

^^topic.

[ThroneofDravaris]

Oh come on, at least write a few sentences…

You know how women’s breasts tend to decrease in size when they become more muscular? I would say Adel has a bit of that going on…

[rubah]

That's how her appearance was changed as a sorceress. Edea didn't come with those claw like hands and spade shaped pupils, and I doubt ultimecia came with horns or whatever she has.

It makes me scared to think what rinoa will look like:(

[ThroneofDravaris]

http://www.biografiasyvidas.com/reportaje/bin_laden/fotos/bin_laden_1.jpg

[Pouring Rain]

Oh my God. xDDDDD *starts laughing* Too...funny!

Because Adel is really old and is probably another person that used to be a man, but now a woman. Just like Kuja was a woman, and now a man. xDDD But really, I dunno. I just know she's weird and manly. Oh yeah, and rubah, SE can make Final Fantasy have anything in it. So maybe they might have those very strange features O_O

[Mittopotahis]

I had always thought she was a guy. That was, up until i realised she was a sorceress, not a sorceror.

Not everyone is perfect, ok? Some people have small imperfections, others have BIG imperfections. Adel's imperfections (plural) are just abnormally big.

[Zanius]

Oh boy... I thought that was some hormone problem.... :rolleyes2

[Polaris]

Oh boy... I thought that was some hormone problem.... :rolleyes2

Loool serious hormones problem(s)! Ok she is old, u can't expect her to be the sexiest sorceress! I wnonder what happened to her breast!:rolleyes2

[Zanius]

Loool serious hormones problem(s)! Ok she is old, u can't expect her to be the sexiest sorceress! I wnonder what happened to her breast!:rolleyes2

I might not answer that post, or else I'll be banned... :rolleyes2

I wonder if this will happen with Rinoa...

I don’t want to think about it... :Oo:

[Anaisa]

Maybe Adel is just in posession of the physical body so the physical body you see is not actually her, its someone else, that someone else being a man.

[Laugh at face of Danger]

1) she really doesn't look like a man
2) she isn't a man - hence SORCERESS
and
3) leave the poor sausage alone, she's been dead or "sleeping" for some time, she's probably decaying!

[muzzer]

its the amount of power she has, she recieved her powers directly from hyne, unlike edea who recieved her powers as a child, also she has been twisted and demented and stuff because of her emense power, thats why she looks like a dude( my info would probably get a beating by future esthar because he/she seems to know just about everything, which is a god thing, isnt it?)
:choc: :moomba:

[Sir Bahamut]

its the amount of power she has, she recieved her powers directly from hyne, unlike edea who recieved her powers as a child, also she has been twisted and demented and stuff because of her emense power, thats why she looks like a dude( my info would probably get a beating by future esthar because he/she seems to know just about everything, which is a god thing, isnt it?)
:choc: :moomba:

Firstly, Adels powers did not come directly from Hyne, and receiving your powers as a child doesn't mean you're weaker than someone who get's their powers at an older age.

What is correct here is that it is Adels excessive use of sorcery for evil purposes (ie. black magic) which causes her to become deformed. Like rubah said, Edea got the claw like hands, Ultimecia had the weird wings and so on. Adel was just REALLY bad and very powerful too.

Secondly, I'd be very careful with taking anything Future Esthar says seriously. In fact, I have rarely seen him come up with anything actually in the game which makes sense. Anyway, perhaps I shouldn't be saying this, but since you brought it up...

[Paninipower123]

2 words...

Little Operation...;)

[Aurora_sword]

I thought Adel was a guy too.
ah well, not all women is feminine

[Randgris]

She has Breast Cancer and had it surgically removed :lol:

Nah just kidding...

I dunno. Maybe she possessed a man's body and used it as her own?

[_yeojina_]

She morphed herself into that shape while the wind changed directions!!! Nah, maybe not. But it will be funny if that DID happen.

[Christmas]

http://www.cathe.com/images/Gym-Style_Back_390.jpg

[Ultima Shadow]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...

[Markus. D]

1) she really doesn't look like a man
2) she isn't a man - hence SORCERESS
and
3) leave the poor sausage alone, she's been dead or "sleeping" for some time, she's probably decaying!


1: yes she does, shes... a "tanky" woman.

2: I only said she looked like a man, I already know the differance from sorceress and sorceror (i know i spelt them both werong -_-")

3: before she was locked up... she looks exactly the same, none of ths sleepy sleep stuff counts.

[kikimm]

Yeah, like other people said, just effects of the whole becoming a sorceress thing. ;)

She still looks like a woman to me, though. She doesn't look THAT masculine.

[themagicroundabout]

She looks more masculine than me!
:kiss:

[Paninipower123]

http://www.cathe.com/images/Gym-Style_Back_390.jpg

My kind of women. ;)

[Laugh at face of Danger]

1: yes she does, shes... a "tanky" woman.

2: I only said she looked like a man, I already know the differance from sorceress and sorceror (i know i spelt them both werong -_-")

3: before she was locked up... she looks exactly the same, none of ths sleepy sleep stuff counts.

well fine, w/e i was just making a point or two

[Setzer Gabianni]

She is either

1) Transexual

or

2) Bit of both =P

[Levian]

She looks like Michael Jackson.

[Setzer Gabianni]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/levia/linkosig_263.png

[Jessweeee♪]

I think someone established already that she's a transvestite clown.

and if that's not the case then she's taking steroids. It causes hormone problems that makes women go flat-chested and hairy, and men can become over-emotional and otherwise more femenine

[a nirvana fan]

^^topic.

She may be a "you know what"

[Primus Inter Pares]

Cid's Knight?

[starseeker]

I thought that she was a guy.

[Soul of Tarsis]

Ok, several people have said that now. Are you all trying to be funny, or did you really overlook the fact that her title was 'Sorceress' Adel?

[Discord]

Maybe she was doping herself to be a good fighter, but then suddenly became a Sorceress and didn't have any use for the muscle-power.

[Qurange]

I'm sure it's already been said, but just like Edea's claw-hands, Adel's monstrous form came about from her use of black magic--her misuse of her powers, generally. Of course, I doubt that she minded. Adel was into the fear thing.

[Desert Merchant]

well alot of FF's male characters look like woman maybe square just said hell and tried to reverse that trend...

[Kyuu]

Dang, I really thought she's a guy at first. But then, I remembered that she's a sorceress..and people kept refering to her as "she"..really confused me back then.

[Takara]

Oh my God. xDDDDD *starts laughing* Too...funny!

Because Adel is really old and is probably another person that used to be a man, but now a woman. Just like Kuja was a woman, and now a man. xDDD But really, I dunno. I just know she's weird and manly. Oh yeah, and rubah, SE can make Final Fantasy have anything in it. So maybe they might have those very strange features O_O

Kuja was always male, by the way...

[Discord]

well alot of FF's male characters look like woman maybe square just said hell and tried to reverse that trend...

Hmm... no! The feminine looking males came after FFVIII, unless you count Laguna, so it's actually the other way around.

Sephiroth looked feminine though:rolleyes2 :roll: :rolleyes2

[IpwnUthisMuch|------|]

no there were feminine looking males in VII and VIII take... Laguna and Kiros for example... both look relatively feminine for me

[Takara]

Yeah, I honestly thought Kiros was a woman the first time I saw him, and then I saw his very manly name and was all :eek:. That's probably why I knew Kuja was male at first glance, I expected a feminine-looking man.

[Discord]

Yeah, I honestly thought Kiros was a woman the first time I saw him, and then I saw his very manly name and was all :eek:. That's probably why I knew Kuja was male at first glance, I expected a feminine-looking man.

I though Laguan and Kiros were women. Well, I wasn't sure about either of them, before they got all buddy-buddy and Laguna started hitting on Julia.

[Neco Arc]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/serena1979/girl-cloud.jpg

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/6923/cloudy2qd.jpg

cloud is definetly a woman

[Paninipower123]

Categories

Adel: (wo) man
Cloud: Undecided
Laguna: Man
Kiros: Man
Kuja: Majority vote man...

[Faris]

Oh, is it that hard to tell now? All FF characters are both genders!

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

For the Laguna and Kiros thing, both are men, were men, and will always be men. For Kuja, actually he is a non gender. If u played FFIX u would know that the genomes were neither male or female (except for Zidane because he was made differently).

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

On the topic of Adel, u should get the fact that he was a she. They kept sayin she when someone talked about her.

[Soul of Tarsis]

What? Since when are Genomes genderless?

[IpwnUthisMuch|------|]

we get your point double post boy but why double post 1 minute apart cant you wait for a response? Adel looks like a man thats all we are saying we realize (s)he is a woman we just think shes a gawdawful eyesore. as for laguna/kiros we realize they are men but at first they seem very feminine

[Discord]

Real men are women! Get over, Adel was taking steroids.

[starseeker]

perhaps sorceress is a courtesy title

my sis thinks adel is a transvestite

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

sry about the double posts. I always think of something else to say after i've already posted. And I know some of u get the difference of gender for some characters, but there are some here who don't. I was just clearing it up for others.

And for genomes, If u played the [!]f***ing[/!]*snip* game u would no they were created with no gender. And as i said before, Zidane is amn unlike other genomes because he was made differently.

sry about the double posts. I always think of something else to say after i've already posted. And I know some of u get the difference of gender for some characters, but there are some here who don't. I was just clearing it up for others.

And for genomes, If u played the f***ing game u would no they were created with no gender. And as i said before, Zidane is amn unlike other genomes because he was made differently.

crap! it double posted! again sry. my internet sux.

Use the edit/delete button if you have something more to add to your post, but do not double/triple post. Also, do NOT go around the filters on this site. They are here for a reason. ~ Leeza

[Christmas]

sry about the double posts. I always think of something else to say after i've already posted. And I know some of u get the difference of gender for some characters, but there are some here who don't. I was just clearing it up for others.

And for genomes, If u played the f***ing game u would no they were created with no gender. And as i said before, Zidane is amn unlike other genomes because he was made differently.


Eiko: Oh... Hey! Where are you going, Zidane? Oh, that's right! That weird girl! The girl that led us here said something strange again! She said she was waiting for you in some underground laboratory! What a pervert!

At least Eiko tell us that the Genome is a girl. Meaning that the girl had a gender.





Girl: Why are you not happy? You have returned to the place of your
birth.

Zidane: Happy? You guys can process that emotion? Look at 'em! Look at
all their blank faces!

Girl: What can we do? After all, we are made that way. And we are built
to watch over each other and work together as soulless Genomes.

Zidane: What's it all for!? Get to the point already! How come I grew
up on Gaia if I was born here!? I'm alive! I have a soul! Why is
everyone here so...

Having a soul is what seperate Zidane from his fellow Genomes.


Girl: Because you are...special.

Zidane: What!?

Girl: We are mere vessels. You have been given a greater purpose. The
will of Garland is absolute...

Zidane: Garland? Who's that?

The girl went upstairs and Zidane follows her. In the first floor...

Girl: Garland watches over this planet. His mission is to restore the
people of Terra.

Zidane: R-Restore the people of Terra? You mean people besides these
guys here?

And Zidane is special in a sense cause he is given the purpose to restore the people of Terra while the details you can go check it out yourself.

So back to topic,
the above PROOFED Adel is a girl and pls dun ask me why.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

No, Eiko assumed the genome was a girl. It does not show for sure. Yes Zidane did have a sould but he was rec reated in a different image alsoto show he was male.

[Soul of Tarsis]

sry about the double posts. I always think of something else to say after i've already posted. And I know some of u get the difference of gender for some characters, but there are some here who don't. I was just clearing it up for others.

And for genomes, If u played the f***ing game u would no they were created with no gender. And as i said before, Zidane is amn unlike other genomes because he was made differently.

EDIT IS YOUR FRIEND

Anyway, I've been through my copy of the game script, and I really can't find anything about the Genomes being genderless. Unless you can provide a quote that suggests that they are in fact genderless, I will conclude that I’m right.

Do not member moderate. Use the Warn button. ~ Leeza

[Christmas]

No, Eiko assumed the genome was a girl. It does not show for sure. Yes Zidane did have a sould but he was rec reated in a different image alsoto show he was male.


Girl: What else can there be? Terra has always absorbed new planets to survive. And when the time comes, the souls of the people of Terra will occupy the Genomes. Such is the restoration of the people of Terra.

How the hell do the people of Terra is going to reproduce if they wanted to if they are genderless?

[Discord]

How the hell do the people of Terra is going to reproduce if they wanted to if they are genderless?

Asexual reproduction, i.e. cloning.

[Soul of Tarsis]

Where's the fun in that?

*quotes a terrible movie*

[Discord]

Where's the fun in that?

*quotes a terrible movie*

I don't know. Didn't try having any kids the asexual way yet, so can't tell. Ask Zidane.

[Christmas]

Asexual reproduction, i.e. cloning.

If we look at it from the FF IX aspect, Garland create Genomes and give them soul if he wanted to.

And should the people of Terra took over the bodies of the Genomes and desire to reproduce through cloning,biological theories in our world may not apply(Eg. he should just clone another new Zidane when he lost him) and instead Garland will create a new Genome and give it a soul. The newly created Genome will be fused with a soul and became the child cause he is told to do so.

Thus, this make no bonding between the child and the parent since the soul is just something given to them making the child seems adopted instead of produced.

[Discord]

Or we do it the boring way. Take a string of DNA from one of them and put it into the incubator.

[Christmas]

Or we do it the boring way. Take a string of DNA from one of them and put it into the incubator.

Look dude, stuff like DNA may not apply in FF IX world. Like why didn't Garland just clone another Zidane.

[Discord]

Look dude, stuff like DNA may not apply in FF IX world. Like why didn't Garland just clone another Zidane.

He didn't have right equipment at hands or didn't know how to do it?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

EDIT IS YOUR FRIEND

Anyway, I've been through my copy of the game script, and I really can't find anything about the Genomes being genderless. Unless you can provide a quote that suggests that they are in fact genderless, I will conclude that I’m right.

But it doesn't give anything saying that they Do have gender so u still can't say ur right.

[Sir Bahamut]

Well, since stating they are sexless is the radical suggestion here (assuming they have sexes is the natural assumption, in other words), you're the one who has to justify your theory, not the other way around.

Anyway, they probably have sexes, because when the souls of Terra enter the genome bodies, they'll probably want to find themselves in bodies matching the sex they previously had :rolleyes2

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

They all look the same dumb***! Also, these are temporary bodies. The terrans do not live in these until they die. They don't even reproduce. Since the genome bodies do not age neither do the terrans making them immortal for the time that they are alive! They live for a while and then go back in cryogenic sleep. There is no sexes in the genomes!

Do not flame other members. ~ Leeza

[Sir Bahamut]

They all look the same dumb***!

Normally I wouldn't even bother arguing with anyone opening their argument like this, but you might want to consider toning down on the verbal abuse....


Also, these are temporary bodies. The terrans do not live in these until they die. They don't even reproduce.

You clearly weren't paying attention in the game. All the Terrans souls are sleeping (in Pandemonium perhaps, or just all over the place, not sure), and will continue to sleep until Terras assimilation is complete (which was stopped at the end of the game). Then they will all enter the bodies of the genomes, which are meant to be specially designed vessels. So your statement about the Terrans not living in the genomes till the die makes no sense. They may only be temporary bodies however, but regardless, they are meant to be filled with Terran souls at some point.

This also explains why they wouldn't reproduce: if Garland created all the genomes to act as vessels, he obviously wouldn't 'program' them to reproduce, because that would cause the genomes to grow beyond control, and there would be a surplus of genomes (presumably he made enough genomes for each Terran soul to have a body!), obviously not the point. This does not, however, mean that they have no reproductive organs, it just means they wouldn't use them if they had them! Zidane took a leak just fine, and since all the rest of his physique is human, it seems reasonable that he also had a penis (if you'll excuse me being blatant). Arguably, Zidane was different, but I still think that Garland didn't make it so that when all the souls fill up the genomes, they'll find themselves in an androgynous body, if they were previously adapted to a single sex body!


Since the genome bodies do not age neither do the terrans making them immortal for the time that they are alive! They live for a while and then go back in cryogenic sleep. There is no sexes in the genomes!

Girl: They are merely vessels. So am I, and so are you. But the true
people of Terra have been asleep for ages, waiting for their time to
come. When the time is right, the light of this planet will change from
blue to red, and Gaia will become Terra.

Zidane: Wait a sec! So the people of Terra are out to take over Gaia!?

Girl: What else can there be? Terra has always absorbed new planets to
survive. And when the time comes, the souls of the people of Terra will
occupy the Genomes. Such is the restoration of the people of Terra.

So I'm afraid you're wrong. The Terrans have been asleep since the big catastrophe, and will remain so until the assimilation is complete. Please do at least some research before calling me a dumb*** next time. I'm afraid it only makes you look bad.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

You didn't get the point of Terra! They feed off of planets man! If u listened good u would know that the occupying of vessels (the genomes) happens every few hundred years or so. Also, it is true tat they rest until the time comes, but they awaken and then they back into the sleep once again after a period of time.

The genomes were not created to reproduce. They could have reproductive rgans yes, but u need the eggs and the sperm to reproduce which the genome bodies have not because that would be impossible for Garland to create thus making them sterile and unable to reproduce. And yes I can call u a dumb*** for now. And im not using verbal abuse with asterics, those are there because I do not want to say the word itself.

No, you can not call anyone here a dumb*** whether you use asterics or not. ~ Leeza

[Soul of Tarsis]

You're wrong, deal with it.

[Christmas]

The genomes were not created to reproduce. They could have reproductive rgans yes, but u need the eggs and the sperm to reproduce which the genome bodies have not because that would be impossible for Garland to create thus making them sterile and unable to reproduce.

What's the point of giving them reproductive organs in the first place if that is the case.

And yes I can call u a dumb*** for now. And im not using verbal abuse with asterics, those are there because I do not want to say the word itself.


http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5425/bunny7cq.jpg

[Soul of Tarsis]

Hey, wait a minute:


Zidane: Okay, whatever... But hey, you have both men and women, right?
(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments...

Doesn’t that imply that that they AREN’T in fact, asexual?

EDIT:

...I could have sworn there was another post above this one...

[Sir Bahamut]

You didn't get the point of Terra! They feed off of planets man! If u listened good u would know that the occupying of vessels (the genomes) happens every few hundred years or so. Also, it is true tat they rest until the time comes, but they awaken and then they back into the sleep once again after a period of time.

Girl: What else can there be? Terra has always absorbed new planets to survive.

Fair enough, they go back to sleep once the assimilated planet is 'spent', but it is clear that this is not a process lasting only 'a few hundred years or so'. Mikoto says they had been sleeping for 'ages', implying a lot more (Garland's first attempts at assimilating Gaia started 5000 years ago for one).

However, since you clearly have no arguments for the Genomes being sexless other than spouting lame insults at me, I decided to try and speed up things a bit. It didn't take me long to find this:

Zidane: Hey, what the heck are you guys doing?
(Orange): We develop into vessels...
(Zidane): Say what...?
Zidane: Okay, whatever... But hey, you have both men and women, right?
(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments...
(Zidane): ???

Let me rephrase the bolded sentence: "sexless beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new enviroments". The implication is clear as crystal: the genomes have sexes. And no, calling me a "dumb***" isn't going to help this time :rolleyes2 Something else I found too:

* (Bottom): In time, we will receive souls. Then our bodies will begin to grow.

In other words, they are probably like eggs; once the soul is implanted in them, they start to grow, and I would take it as a natural assumption that they would then grow into regular human beings, and start aging (the last point there is perhaps speculation, but at least they will grown into new people, presumably reflecting the soul inhabiting them).

Oh, and in future debates, you're probably going to be better off not insulting whoever you're arguing with. It just makes you look stupid. Especially if you get proven wrong. :rolleyes2


Hey, wait a minute:



Doesn’t that imply that that they AREN’T in fact, asexual?

EDIT:

...I could have sworn there was another post above this one...

Hehe, you're right, there was a post there, but I suddenly realised what you did, so I quickly deleted the post :eep:

Do not double post. ~ Leeza

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Hey! i agreed with u that they can have sexes! Read my post!

[Soul of Tarsis]

...You can't jump boats after yours has sunk.

[Christmas]

Hey! i agreed with u that they can have sexes! Read my post!


http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5753/confused1hp.png

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

* (Bottom): In time, we will receive souls. Then our bodies will begin to grow.

In other words, they are probably like eggs; once the soul is implanted in them, they start to grow, and I would take it as a natural assumption that they would then grow into regular human beings, and start aging (the last point there is perhaps speculation, but at least they will grown into new people, presumably reflecting the soul inhabiting them).

Oh, and in future debates, you're probably going to be better off not insulting whoever you're arguing with. It just makes you look stupid. Especially if you get proven wrong. :rolleyes2

No, totally incorrect. First off, the vessels cannot produce eggs. There is no possible way because it has to start off with eggs (i found this out in health class:females have all the eggs they are going to have at the start of birth, but they start to be released during puberty) and since Garland would be unable to create eggs they wouldn't be able to have any. With the sperm I don't think Garland would be able to create those either since they carry the genes of the person who has them and the vessels wouldn't have genes since they were created artificially and wouldn't have the hormones to make them so reproduction is out of the question.

Second, souls are don't grow and wouldn't be able to make the vessels grow. The souls also wouldn't be able to make the vessels grow into new ppl because again they were artificially made and souls can't do that.




Fair enough, they go back to sleep once the assimilated planet is 'spent', but it is clear that this is not a process lasting only 'a few hundred years or so'. Mikoto says they had been sleeping for 'ages', implying a lot more (Garland's first attempts at assimilating Gaia started 5000 years ago for one).

I just said a few hundred because i was just guessin, ok?

[Christmas]

The people of Terra will extinct even if Garland succeed.

[Soul of Tarsis]

No, totally incorrect. First off, the vessels cannot produce eggs. There is no possible way because it has to start off with eggs (i found this out in health class:females have all the eggs they are going to have at the start of birth, but they start to be released during puberty) and since Garland would be unable to create eggs they wouldn't be able to have any. With the sperm I don't think Garland would be able to create those either since they carry the genes of the person who has them and the vessels wouldn't have genes since they were created artificially and wouldn't have the hormones to make them so reproduction is out of the question.
If Garland is able to create an entirely organic creature, there is no reason to assume he cannot provide them with the ability to produce the sperm and ovum necessary for sexual reproduction. There is even evidence within the game that states that they CAN bread:


(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments…

This means that Garland did, in fact, create the Genomes with the ability to sexually reproduce, as he felt that genetic diversity was the only way for the Genomes to adapt to their new environment (being Gaia).


Second, souls are don't grow and wouldn't be able to make the vessels grow. The souls also wouldn't be able to make the vessels grow into new ppl because again they were artificially made and souls can't do that.

1.How can you possibly comment on what souls can or cannot do, when in the real world there is no proof that souls even exist? We can only assume that in the FFIX universe, souls DO have this effect on Genomes, since we are told this very clearly within the game.

2. No one is saying that souls ‘grow’. The souls of the Terrans are implanted into the Genomes.

[Sir Bahamut]

Soul of Tarsis covered my counter arguments. Basically, your statement that Garland cannot create eggs and sperm (which you failed to back up, I notice) is unfounded and illogical. Secondly, the genomes TELL US that they will grow once infused with a soul. On what basis do you deny that?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

I deny that on the basis that they do not know for sure, did Garland give them all the knowldge in the world? No. Secondly, I did backup that he cannot produce eggs and sperm. Read the post. It's called health class. Man! I think u ppl just read what u want to read and not read the whole thing. He wouldn't be able to make eggs and sperm because they consist of genes which he wouldn't be able to create. And im not saying that they are asexual. They wouldn't be able to reproduce at all. They are sterile! Also, he didn't make them have genetic diversity. They look the same! Genes make up the physical features. They are artificial bodies acting as vessels! They have no genes to make up any part of them!

When u said we can assume that souls in the FFIX universe have the ability to make the vessels grow, I thought we weren't supposed to be assuming here? U changing ur mind about not having evidence? They say that they will become new beings but they do not change physically. All they do is change memory and personality to the Terran that is occupying the vessel. Lastly, I never said the souls growed but earlier someone said that the bodies grow, which they don't.

[Sir Bahamut]

I deny that on the basis that they do not know for sure, did Garland give them all the knowldge in the world? No.

Sorry, but that's simply not a valid counter-argument. Square put that line in there for a reason, and there is not a shred of evidence that suggests the Genome said it even if it wasn't correct. It doesn't make sense; it's irrational, and thus we have to assume the Genome told the truth.

So again, I'm sorry, but that won't do as a counter. If you can't come up with anything better, the conclusion must be that they DO have genders.


Secondly, I did backup that he cannot produce eggs and sperm. Read the post. It's called health class.

FF9 is set in another universe, and Garland is incredibly powerful, both technologcally (think of the Invincible) and magically (note: magic makes it possible to do things we cannot do in the real world), so the fact that WE in the real world cannot create genes like that cannot be used to argue that Garland could not.


Also, he didn't make them have genetic diversity. They look the same! Genes make up the physical features. They are artificial bodies acting as vessels! They have no genes to make up any part of them!

You cannot simply ignore the Genomes statement. They have genes, or else talking about 'genetic diversity' would be meaningless. As for them looking the same, the reason is probably the one I referred to earlier: they do not grow into regular human beings (complete with diverse looks) until they receive a Terran soul. However, they need reproductive organs, because they need genetic diversity (seeing as Terra assimilates many different planets, probably all quite different).

On Terra, I agree, it appears as if they were sterile (if not in body then in mind), but on Gaia, we clearly see them starting to grow more human. I would suppose they'd eventually start reproducing on Gaia, but that's just speculation I suppose.


When u said we can assume that souls in the FFIX universe have the ability to make the vessels grow, I thought we weren't supposed to be assuming here?

That wasn't an assumption. Perhaps you failed to see the ingame quote that states that once the Genome receives a soul, his body will grow? Doesn't get much clearer then that.


They say that they will become new beings but they do not change physically. All they do is change memory and personality to the Terran that is occupying the vessel.

Read again:

* (Bottom): In time, we will receive souls. Then our bodies will begin to grow.

It says their bodies will grow. BODIES.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Not physically though! Stop thinking literally! Also, u are countering by using my statements out of context. knock it off! I have been over genetics in science a hundred times and i have played FFIX more than i can count (and i can count up to 1 trillion so try saying anything). To switch to another statement u said, magic cannot create eggs and sperm! don't even use magic for a reason! sure the FFIX universe is differetn than ours but natural principles still apply there. For the genomes, they talk about genetic diversity as in the genes that make up voice, mind capability, etc. not physiacl features. as for gender, i know they can have gender already! i have agreed to that possibility, it's just that they won't have the ability to reproduce. the souls would not be able to change the vessels physical looks, only control the vessel itself.

For when they got onto Gaia on the 4th disc, they were not growing human. while experiencing different things on Gaia they are expanding there mind (or knowledge if u want to put since) but were not growing human. they could find out about reproduction and try to reproduce but they would be unable to conceive a child due to the fact that they wouldn't have the eggs and sperm. u are just saying the same statements but are rephrasing them. i am giving u the reasons but u just don't like it. why? i am giving reasonable answers that prove what we are talking about.

[Soul of Tarsis]

Not physically though! Stop thinking literally!

What? So it grows metaphysically then? Please clarify this statement.


Also, u are countering by using my statements out of context. knock it off! I have been over genetics in science a hundred times

Yes, I’m sure most people here have done biology at some point in high school.


and i have played FFIX more than i can count (and i can count up to 1 trillion so try saying anything).

Yeah, sure kid.


To switch to another statement u said, magic cannot create eggs and sperm! don't even use magic for a reason!
That was just an example used as to possibly explain why Garland has the capacity to create creatures that are capable of sexual reproduction. We have no idea how he does it, it may be entirely technological, but we do know that that he CAN create genomes capable of sexual reproduction because the game tells us that they are NOT ASEXUAL so they have the GENETIC DIVERSITY to adapt to their new home. The only way to gain the characteristics that will allow them to live on Gaia is through sexual reproduction, thus the genomes can reproduce.


sure the FFIX universe is differetn than ours but natural principles still apply there.
Even though this is completely untrue, even if it were true what proof do you have that in the far future we won’t be able to artificially create the cells needed for sexual reproduction? Garland is from an advanced civilisation, which is able to do such things.


For the genomes, they talk about genetic diversity as in the genes that make up voice, mind capability, etc. not physiacl features.

…That statement is a contradiction of itself. Voice and brain capabilities ARE physical features.

.
as for gender, i know they can have gender already! i have agreed to that possibility, it's just that they won't have the ability to reproduce. the souls would not be able to change the vessels physical looks, only control the vessel itself.

I’m sorry, you’re wrong on this one. There is proof you are wrong. It is commented upon DIRECTLY within the game, and in the game the addition of the souls DOES cause their bodies to change physically.


For when they got onto Gaia on the 4th disc, they were not growing human. while experiencing different things on Gaia they are expanding there mind (or knowledge if u want to put since) but were not growing human.

Yes, because the souls of the Terrans were never inserted into them. The Terrans were destroyed by Kuja. We see this happen.


they could find out about reproduction and try to reproduce but they would be unable to conceive a child due to the fact that they wouldn't have the eggs and sperm. u are just saying the same statements but are rephrasing them. i am giving u the reasons but u just don't like it. why? i am giving reasonable answers that prove what we are talking about.

You’re the one who is ignoring what others are saying. We have provided proof that Genomes sexually reproduce and in fact it is a feature that Garland incorporated specifically so the Genomes were able to live on Gaia. Maybe once you’ve finished learning genetics in science class, you should go over natural selection as well…

[Markus. D]

I have no idea what forum section im in now.

please your getting just a tiny bit off topic :)

...and thank you so much for reporting it Tsukasa. ~ Leeza

[Sir Bahamut]

Soul of Tarsis beat me to it again, but I'll just comment on some specific things.


Not physically though! Stop thinking literally!

Besides being a vague statement with no actual meaning (or, no meaning that you actually clarify), as Soul pointed out, I have to stop and ask on what basis you are an expert on Genomes all of a sudden? On what basis can you claim that the Genomes sentence is to be taken anything but at face value?


don't even use magic for a reason! sure the FFIX universe is differetn than ours but natural principles still apply there.

You can apparently count to a trillion, but cannot see that if the FF9 universe obeyed the exact same principles as our universe, magic would not be possible. It's quite simple: because magic exists in FF9, we cannot instantly translate everything from our universe into the FF9 universe.

So your argument that because we at this present stage of biology on OUR universe cannot create genes, a highly advanced civilisation capable of also using magic, set in ANOTHER UNIVERSE cannot make genes, is simply not a good arguments.


For when they got onto Gaia on the 4th disc, they were not growing human. while experiencing different things on Gaia they are expanding there mind (or knowledge if u want to put since) but were not growing human.

Perhaps you disagree, but I saw the genomes 'awakening' as a sign that they were growing human. Perhaps not instantly in body, but I would say that their souls would develop with time, and thus eventually their bodies (as the Genome said, and you still haven't properly countered, a soul can cause a body to grow).


u are just saying the same statements but are rephrasing them. i am giving u the reasons but u just don't like it. why? i am giving reasonable answers that prove what we are talking about.

Please, don't belittle me by claiming I can't take 'losing a debate' (or will you perhaps call me dumb*** again?). The reason I (and Soul of Tarsis) am restating myself is because you are unable to come up with decent arguments to counter the ingame statements we have provided.
If you actually come up with a good, logical argument BASED ON INGAME EVIDENCE (ie. not current biology in our universe, or by trying to claim superiority in FF9 knowledge by claiming you have finished the game a million times) then I will gladly concede.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Sry it took me so long to reply. I had school and the basketball practice. Let's see what I have to say shall we? Ok:


What? So it grows metaphysically then? Please clarify this statement.

Ok. Let me clarify. The bodies do not grow physically as in they do not gain height, weight, age, or other physical features. This is what I meant by they don't grow physically.


That was just an example used as to possibly explain why Garland has the capacity to create creatures that are capable of sexual reproduction. We have no idea how he does it, it may be entirely technological, but we do know that that he CAN create genomes capable of sexual reproduction because the game tells us that they are NOT ASEXUAL so they have the GENETIC DIVERSITY to adapt to their new home. The only way to gain the characteristics that will allow them to live on Gaia is through sexual reproduction, thus the genomes can reproduce.


I see, and here is my thought on that. First, I have already stated that Garland wouldn't be able to create eggs and sperm. Also, I have said anything about the genomes being asexual. Asexual is when a being can reproduce without using sexual intercourse. The genomes are n ot asexual, they are sterile! They can adapt into their new envrionment(which we see in disc 4) but they would not be able to conceive chilfren. See? Another thing, how the hell do u gain characteristics through sexual reproduction?! This statement makes no sense. They wouldn't be able to gain anything except knowledge. The vessels do not age making them able to live long and get used to their new world, and since they Garland's plan did not work and the souls of Terrans were not implanted into the vessels they will not be discarded.


Even though this is completely untrue, even if it were true what proof do you have that in the far future we won’t be able to artificially create the cells needed for sexual reproduction? Garland is from an advanced civilisation, which is able to do such things.


Here's one thing, I know that we won't be able to artificially create eggs and sperm needed for sexual reproduction is that they are to complex to be made. First is that eggs and sperm are not cells. They are hormones and genes that are used to make offspring. Second is that to make eggs and sperm u would need the genes and the hormones to create them, and if Garland did preserve genes and hormones to make these he would've been able to make the genomes look different. And besides, Garland would not be able to make the chromosomes because they contains trillions upon trillions of atoms to make up one gene on a chromosome. There would be no way. Also, have u even researched on terrans? There is no record that dates back to the start of their history so u wouldn't know what they are capable of, but cann only know what they are not capable of.


…That statement is a contradiction of itself. Voice and brain capabilities ARE physical features.


No, voice and brain capabilities are not physical features. Physical features are features of someone that u can see. Can u see how there voice sounds? Can u see their brain and how much memory and other storage it can hold? No, so there are not physical features.


I’m sorry, you’re wrong on this one. There is proof you are wrong. It is commented upon DIRECTLY within the game, and in the game the addition of the souls DOES cause their bodies to change physically.


I'm sorry, but ur the wrong one. If ur using that same statement from the game, as I said earlier they are not talking about growing physically. They are talking about growing into the person that is the soul that is taking over them.


Yes, because the souls of the Terrans were never inserted into them. The Terrans were destroyed by Kuja. We see this happen.


Yes, but they are not growing human which is what u are saying. The genomes do not have souls for themselves so they wouldn't be able to be human. They can only have an idea of feelings and such(just like AI robots). No, i'm not saying they're robots.


You can apparently count to a trillion, but cannot see that if the FF9 universe obeyed the exact same principles as our universe, magic would not be possible. It's quite simple: because magic exists in FF9, we cannot instantly translate everything from our universe into the FF9 universe.

So your argument that because we at this present stage of biology on OUR universe cannot create genes, a highly advanced civilisation capable of also using magic, set in ANOTHER UNIVERSE cannot make genes, is simply not a good arguments.


Ur wrong. Ther is magic in our world, just not as powerful or as complex as in the FF universe. Also, I said natural principles. Not all principles. And i also already have an arguement to the genes thing.


Perhaps you disagree, but I saw the genomes 'awakening' as a sign that they were growing human. Perhaps not instantly in body, but I would say that their souls would develop with time, and thus eventually their bodies (as the Genome said, and you still haven't properly countered, a soul can cause a body to grow).


Again, already argued above.
That's all I have to say at the time. If u have anything more u would like to go over, please post.

[Soul of Tarsis]

They can adapt into their new envrionment(which we see in disc 4) but they would not be able to conceive chilfren. See? Another thing, how the hell do u gain characteristics through sexual reproduction?! This statement makes no sense. They wouldn't be able to gain anything except knowledge.

They wouldn’t, but later generations would. This is why I brought up Darwin’s Theory of Natural Selection. Basically, it states that as a species breeds in a certain environment, offspring many generations down the track will be born with mutations that are beneficial to the environment in which they live. When subsequent generations breed, these beneficial mutations will be present in their offspring and so on until you get a creature that is completely suited to its habitat. In other words, the current Genomes will not gain the characteristics necessary to live on Gaia for a prolonged period themselves, but their offspring will. This will ensure the survival of the race. It’s been a while since I’ve done biology though, so if anyone can give a better interpretation of the line “(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments…’, I’ll be more than glad to here it.



Here's one thing, I know that we won't be able to artificially create eggs and sperm needed for sexual reproduction is that they are to complex to be made. First is that eggs and sperm are not cells. They are hormones and genes that are used to make offspring. Second is that to make eggs and sperm u would need the genes and the hormones to create them, and if Garland did preserve genes and hormones to make these he would've been able to make the genomes look different. And besides, Garland would not be able to make the chromosomes because they contains trillions upon trillions of atoms to make up one gene on a chromosome. There would be no way.

As has already been stated, you have no proof of this.


Also, have u even researched on terrans? There is no record that dates back to the start of their history so u wouldn't know what they are capable of, but cann only know what they are not capable of.

That doesn’t even begin to make sense.


No, voice and brain capabilities are not physical features. Physical features are features of someone that u can see. Can u see how there voice sounds? Can u see their brain and how much memory and other storage it can hold? No, so there are not physical features.

The way a voice sounds is due to the shape and size of the vocal cords and throat. This is a physical characteristic. The amount of information the brain can hold is based on characteristic of the brain itself. This too is a physical characteristic.




I'm sorry, but ur the wrong one. If ur using that same statement from the game, as I said earlier they are not talking about growing physically. They are talking about growing into the person that is the soul that is taking over them.

Yes…? And that’s not a physical change how?




Yes, but they are not growing human which is what u are saying. The genomes do not have souls for themselves so they wouldn't be able to be human. They can only have an idea of feelings and such(just like AI robots). No, i'm not saying they're robots.

I didn’t say that they were becoming human. You’ll have to discuss that with Sir Bahamut.




Ur wrong. Ther is magic in our world, just not as powerful or as complex as in the FF universe. Also, I said natural principles. Not all principles. And i also already have an arguement to the genes thing.

You have no proof that there is magic in our world. And no, you DON’T have an argument for the ‘gene thing’.


Again, already argued above.
That's all I have to say at the time. If u have anything more u would like to go over, please post.

Sorry, I’m done with this. Arguing with you is like arguing with Future Esthar or Ishin Ookami. As someone pointed out, this is all completely off topic anyway.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Well, we did start this discussion. U want me to make a thred so we can contnue, and no this is not like arguing with FE because he just comes up with completely new things (I know because i am arguing with him in other threads). Now I'll respond to what u have said:


They wouldn’t, but later generations would. This is why I brought up Darwin’s Theory of Natural Selection. Basically, it states that as a species breeds in a certain environment, offspring many generations down the track will be born with mutations that are beneficial to the environment in which they live. When subsequent generations breed, these beneficial mutations will be present in their offspring and so on until you get a creature that is completely suited to its habitat. In other words, the current Genomes will not gain the characteristics necessary to live on Gaia for a prolonged period themselves, but their offspring will. This will ensure the survival of the race. It’s been a while since I’ve done biology though, so if anyone can give a better interpretation of the line “(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments…’, I’ll be more than glad to here it.


Future generations wouldn't be able to adapt through natural selection because the genomes aren't natural themselves. They are artificial beings created to be occupieed by the souls of the Terrans(which never happened). Also, I have gone over the Darwin's theory of natural selection. This would apply to the genomes if they were able to reproduce, which they can't(already stated in earlier post). The genomes are practically immortal since they were not created to age thus preventing them from death(I have stated this in an earlier post). The only thing they can gain in life is knowledge. For the line “(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments…’ This is saying that beings who reproduce without having sexual intercourse wouldn't be able to adapt to their new envrionment because they do not change characteristics since they are only making a new being with the exact same genes as themself. This still does not prove that the genomes are able to reproduce.


As has already been stated, you have no proof of this.


My proof is right there. Read!


That doesn’t even begin to make sense.


This does so make sense. You are saying that the Terrans are capable of doing something even though you are not shown in the game exactly where and how they do it. With this, and without a history of them and what they have advanced in technologically, you can only state true fact about what they cannot do.


Yes…? And that’s not a physical change how?

Here's a better question. How's is that a physical change? Souls only change the vessels knowledge, memory, and personality to the person that the soul is. If the genomes did change physically, then their outward appearance would change completely which is impossible since the genomes are artficial beings.


I didn’t say that they were becoming human. You’ll have to discuss that with Sir Bahamut.

Yes, I'm pretty sureI replied that to Sir Bahamut because the staement I am replying to was from him.


You have no proof that there is magic in our world. And no, you DON’T have an argument for the ‘gene thing’.
One, you don't believe in magic? Then don't play games with magic! ALso, yes I do have an arguement about the gene thing(read the previous post).
That's it for now. I'd like to know ur opinion.

[Leeza]

*closes*

- This is way off the original topic.
- Too much member moderation going on.
- This isn't debating and discussing, it's arguing.
- Heero Yuy NWZC: Do not go around the filters on this site again. Do not flame other members. Do not post more than once in a row. Every post has an edit/delete button...use it.
- Christmas: Do not use images to replace posting.