Kingdom Hearts: Christianity Influences [Archive]

SuperMillionaire

12-21-2005, 08:50 PM

Being a Roman Catholic Christian and playing Kingdom Hearts, I say that KH takes A LOT of influence from Christianity. Have you ever noticed that? One example may be that the "mysterious voice" that called out to Sora may actually have been the voice of God, in the fact that there are stories in the bible that have God's voice calling out to certain biblical figures, and saints, such as Moses and Joan of Arc, even though she wasn't in the bible, but nonetheless, that's the same thing that Sora went through. Another influence Kingdom Hearts takes from Christianity is "no matter how deep the darkness, a light shines within." Yet another influence is that Ansem is a reflection of Satan, the heartless are reflections of demons, and the Realm of Kingdom Hearts and the World of Chaos are somewhat similar to the concept of Hell. Namine also seems somewhat like a prophet, in the fact that she drew a place called Castle Oblivion, and Sora traveled there. Those are the Christianity influences that I could pick out. Can you see any more? And s this an interesting connection?

Kawaii Ryûkishi

12-21-2005, 08:56 PM

Stop projecting your wacky cultist ethos onto everything good hard-working atheists venture to create.

SuperMillionaire

12-21-2005, 08:57 PM

Sorry, but I found that discovery.

agrudis

12-21-2005, 09:57 PM

What are you on? I'm not christian none, but i know enough about it to know that what you said is ... i cant say this without swearing, so i wont ... but, really, its stupid

Winter Nights

12-21-2005, 10:51 PM

The battle of dark and light is universal and not exclusive to Christianity.

blackmage_nuke

12-21-2005, 11:25 PM

according to your logic, kh could represent ANY religion with a good force and a evil force, it could even represent budah (sorry i cant spell it) or taoism, as there is alot of stuff about light and darkness within

SuperMillionaire

12-21-2005, 11:44 PM

I know, but hey, God DID call down to people in the bible before...

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-22-2005, 12:11 AM

The bible isn't the only sacred text that involves that kind of an event. Hell, the Greek gods were talking to their adherents all the time. Does that mean it's Pagan?

SuperMillionaire

12-22-2005, 01:13 AM

Well, come to think of it, Zeus did cal down on Hercules...

Lord Xehanort

12-22-2005, 08:55 PM

The voices in my head talk to me on a regular basis. It's nothing new.

Besides, the mystrerious voice is most likely Mickey. And I won't even BEGIN to talk about my views of good and evil.

KH1992

12-22-2005, 09:06 PM

Hey.. I picked some of that up too. I also thought Sora sacrificing himself for Kairi reminded me of the whole crucifix thing you know...

SuperMillionaire

12-22-2005, 09:34 PM

Yes, sacrificing himself to save someone else. That's what Jesus Christ did during his crucifixion.

Winter Nights

12-23-2005, 03:08 AM

Yes, sacrificing himself to save someone else. That's what Jesus Christ did during his crucifixion.
Not exactly.. There's a difference between dying to save the souls of the world and dying to save your girlfriend.

Paninipower123

12-23-2005, 03:21 AM

If you see this in Kingdom Hearts why dont you throw in a helluva lot of other games too. Most games follow this basic principle of Dark VS Light (Good VS Evil), myesterious voices that are there just to add suspense, and heartless in KH and monstes in other video games can also be classified as these "demons" you speak of.

Ansem/Sephy

12-23-2005, 03:26 AM

There are similarities, but you seem to be looking in the wrong places. Oh, and people, TN worked on KH (who previously worked on FF) so . . . there's some religious references, considering that FF is built upon them . . .

The only one I think you hit on was the Light/Darkness thing . . . and here:

"A light shineth in darkness. And the darkness comprehendeth it not . . ."

But . . . that's a common theme, but a good one at that . . .

Foetus In Fetu

12-26-2005, 03:51 PM

A lot of those themes are very common culturally, and by no means exclusive to Christianity -- including the self-sacrifice, and so on. I think that if Kingdom Hearts drew on religion, and I doubt it did considering that the general plot has to be fairly simple in order to pass as a children's game, it would be made very obvious with references to things that were exclusive and definitive to the target religion.

SummonerYuna

12-26-2005, 04:21 PM

Yeah well, it's just about the battle of the dark and the light..

SuperMillionaire

12-26-2005, 06:13 PM

We'll we're all right.

MateriaBladeVII

12-29-2005, 05:07 PM

You gotta be kidding me...

You're comparing a FF/Disney game to the Bible...

Somebody stop me before I say something drastic...

*sigh*

Okay- I think I can restrain myself enough to put my two cents in...

The voice that calls out to Sora in the beginning- that's Ansem (a character you compared to Satan), not a character easily compared to God.

Kingdom Hearts- not a place to be compared to Hell. It's the heart of all worlds- a place to be held dearly and protected.

Namine- not a prophet. She's a witch. Larxene even says so... (Which the Christian religion extremely frowns upon).

I really don't think this game can be compared to the Bible without being compared to any other legend or theology involving the epic battle between Good vs Evil or Light vs Dark (which is like every hero story out there).

This whole thread... kinda stupid. *clamps ahold of mouth to prevent himself from saying anymore*

TurkSlayer

12-29-2005, 05:11 PM

...This isn't worth me ranting.

SuperMillionaire

12-29-2005, 05:20 PM

The voice that calls out to Sora in the beginning- that's Ansem (a character you compared to Satan), not a character easily compared to God.

Kingdom Hearts- not a place to be compared to Hell. It's the heart of all worlds- a place to be held dearly and protected.

Namine- not a prophet. She's a witch. Larxene even says so... (Which the Christian religion extremely frowns upon).
How could Ansam be calling out to Sora?

Kingdom Hearts is the world of darkness, and the Shadow Realm from Yu-Gi-Oh! is based on hell. Why isn't the World of Chaos like hell?

And Namine drew a picture, predicting what would happen, and she was right. THat's kind of like a prophet.

KH1992

12-29-2005, 05:39 PM

Why are we comparing it to the Bible again? Isn't it just supposed to be a video game...

SuperMillionaire

12-29-2005, 06:03 PM

Well hey, a lot of fantasy is modeled after reality.

Buddhist Monkey

12-29-2005, 06:30 PM

Most of you have probably seen Disney's Chronicles of Narnia movie by this point, I imagine -- which, undeniably, reeks of HEAVY Christian themes... So, the company certainly isn't completely against the idea (but, then again, it's not they could remove it from the source material).

Kingdom Hearts, however, is your average 'Good vs Evil' conflict -- To say that Ansem represents Satan is to broad... That comparison could be used for ANY evil character, but, it doesn't make it neccessarily true. Hell, even 'Narnia''s White Witch doesn't symbolize Satan.

Countless religions have "underworlds" of some sort -- And I don't have any doubt in my mind that Chaos represents a hell of sorts -- But not neccessarily a particular Christian concept of Hell... More so then general idea of an underworld.

I find it difficult to sensibly rant about how wrong you are... So, frankly, I'm just going to stop trying. There aren't any Christian themes in KH -- It's very simply the basic concept of good vs. evil. So, blah on you.

Psydekick

12-29-2005, 06:42 PM

Winter Nights

12-29-2005, 06:52 PM

Good point made by this guy so why you have all rubished it I don't know. And guys we all have are own point of view so just don't run down someone elses.

A) Because someone having an opposite opinion is a normal part of discussion.

B) It's already been explained how the theory doesn't really work.

SuperMillionaire

12-29-2005, 06:58 PM

Good point made by this guy so why you have all rubished it I don't know. And guys we all have are own point of view so just don't run down someone elses.
Thank you very much, Sora. I have a new friend in you.

Ultima Shadow

12-29-2005, 10:43 PM

Well hey, a lot of fantasy is modeled after reality.The bible, however, is not "reality". :greenie:

MateriaBladeVII

12-30-2005, 03:39 AM

The bible, however, is not "reality". :greenie:

LMAO!!!

Oh wow- I can't wait to see their reactions to this comment...

Anyways- SuperMillionaire, please refrain from comparing something as awesome as Kingdom Hearts to that Yu-Gi-Oh! junk... It tarnishes the name of such a masterpiece.

But umm- you're wrong. Kingdom Hearts is NOT based on hell. I don't care what you say. Why do you think Sora and King Mickey labored so hard to try and protect it from Ansem? It's the heart of all worlds- and a very important thing to be protected. Darkness may abound in it- but it's light. Don't you remember? When the door opened, Ansem was utterly vanquished by the bright light from within. Sora even said it was "light".

And the thing about Ansem calling out to Sora. He does. He prophesies- if anyone does any of that junk. And he says a long speech "the door has been opened... tied to the darkness... etc" in the very beginning. And then it's repeated again near the end.

And Namine does not make predictions. You really don't pay attention to the storyline- do you? What she draws is created. She created the chamber in which Sora goes into hibernation in at the end of KH:CoM. She creates stairways, she manipulates memories. She has powers- but telling the future, is not one of them.

*shrugs* We all agree to disagree... but this thread... I can't stand to look at another moment longer... for now...

*mumble* Lame thread... *mumble*

SuperMillionaire

12-30-2005, 03:36 PM

Well, you're right, but what about the Heartless? Are some of them (but not all) modeled after demons?

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-30-2005, 06:52 PM

Well, you're right, but what about the Heartless? Are some of them (but not all) modeled after demons?

Demons don't only exist in Christian mythology, you know.

And one of the heartless is modeled after an angel. So is Kingdom Hearts saying that Christianity is, in fact, bad?

Psydekick

12-30-2005, 07:09 PM

No it can be saying that even a light can give off darkness if your talking about Angel star

SuperMillionaire

12-30-2005, 10:41 PM

Angel Star... Well, that should have been Devil Star. And Sephroth: Angel of darkness.

Lord Xehanort

12-30-2005, 11:31 PM

Sephiroth wasn't working for the darkness. He just liked to stick his sword into young teenage boys.

SuperMillionaire

12-30-2005, 11:44 PM

Ultima Shadow

12-30-2005, 11:49 PM

Sephiroth wasn't working for the darkness. He just liked to stick his sword into young teenage boys.That's what he meant.

auhin

12-31-2005, 12:09 AM

I agree with you, SuperMillionare. KH does remind me of Christianity, and being a Christian, I can see where you're coming from.

SuperMillionaire

12-31-2005, 12:33 AM

Thanks, Auhin. I just found another friend in you.

Lord Xehanort

12-31-2005, 01:44 AM

As has been said many times, the dark creatures and sacrifices and such are commonplace elements of fiction and mythology. Christianity just happens to fit right in with all the other fiction and mythology. You can't take one without the others.

Hades: God of the dead.
Power Wild: Ninja Monkey. Not any demon I know of.
Angel Star: Seraph with power of holy judgement.
Darkside: A warped version of Sora's shadow. Instills fear in Sora. 'Dark side' theme, common in MANY things.

Stop trying to wedge Christianity into my everyday life. It doesn't fit. Keep it up, and I'll be forced to point out some imaginary 'KH=Star Wars' rant.

?????

12-31-2005, 02:12 AM

Well, making a case for Final Fantasy = Star Wars really isn't that hard to do.

Lord Xehanort

12-31-2005, 02:17 AM

Well, making a case for Final Fantasy = Star Wars really isn't that hard to do.

Biggs and Wedge. There you go.

SuperMillionaire

12-31-2005, 03:49 AM

Lord Xehanort

12-31-2005, 03:51 AM

Biggs and Wedge have been in every FF since VII, and there are Biggs and Wedge in SW as well.

SuperMillionaire

12-31-2005, 05:11 AM

What's SW?

StarlightAngel

12-31-2005, 05:31 AM

What's SW?

Star Wars, obviously :rolleyes2

And it doesn't fit with Christianity. Demons are seen in loads of fantasy stories all the time, but not all of them are Christian related. Heck, I don't think very many at all are related to Christianity.

Like said before, it's just a battle between "Good" and "Evil". Basics of the basics.

Sorry, but to me, it just looks you're trying to tack on the title of "Christian" on a game just because of some little details that could vaguely represent things from a huge bunch of the many religions out there.

Momiji

12-31-2005, 05:36 AM

Biggs and Wedge have been in every FF since VII, and there are Biggs and Wedge in SW as well.

Ummm, aren't they in FFVI also?

Winter Nights

12-31-2005, 05:49 AM

Ummm, aren't they in FFVI also?
Yes, but I think that Biggs wasn't called Biggs in the original SNES version. So technically, FFVII was the first to feature both of them, as the translation wasn't fixed until the US FF: Anthologies.

Then again, it might have been Wedge that was wrong.. Can't remember.

Christmas

12-31-2005, 07:55 AM

Vicks and Wedge in the SNES version.

Psydekick

12-31-2005, 09:12 AM

Biggs and wedge have NOTHING to do with KH please Keep on thread topic

Shadow The Red XIII Thing

12-31-2005, 11:58 AM

The point is most Squenix games are based on a Judeo-Christian theme.
Also if it is Ansem then that could be compared to the snake in the garden in Genesis of the bible. Leave it at that. If you people want me tell you all the themes then I will.

Ultima Shadow

12-31-2005, 01:15 PM

Lyke... teh Balrog in da LotR got wings'nd stuff, so its liek a demon! And dem0ns r in teh bible cuz their teh bad guyz, lol! OMG! LotR is liek a total rip-off of teh bible!111111one :mog:

Shadow The Red XIII Thing

12-31-2005, 01:46 PM

The hell did Ultima say :confused: . It looked like it said 8543 89itgyj
Maybe it jus me.

Christmas

12-31-2005, 01:55 PM

Lyke... teh Balrog in da LotR got wings'nd stuff, so its liek a demon! And dem0ns r in teh bible cuz their teh bad guyz, lol! OMG! LotR is liek a total rip-off of teh bible!111111one :mog:

WARCRAFT TOO. DEMONS INVADING THE WORLD. :mad2:

Setzer Gabianni

12-31-2005, 02:24 PM

?

What's SW?

Not meaning to be rude but..Sora! at least these people are not spamming unlike the quotes I have just put down. SuperMillionaire, those aren't posts. But, I am not a moderator, so I cannot tell you to stop it.

Sure enough, the game may seem to resemble Christian qualities, but there is no proof whatsoever to prove it actually is based on Christianity references.

It's like people seem to think The Lion the Witch and the Warddrobe had Christian references - it's a movie, and people seem to be obssessed with these little things.

Hmph.

Psydekick

12-31-2005, 04:35 PM

Not meaning to be rude but..Sora! at least these people are not spamming unlike the quotes I have just put down. SuperMillionaire, those aren't posts. But, I am not a moderator, so I cannot tell you to stop it.

Sure enough, the game may seem to resemble Christian qualities, but there is no proof whatsoever to prove it actually is based on Christianity references.

It's like people seem to think The Lion the Witch and the Warddrobe had Christian references - it's a movie, and people seem to be obssessed with these little things.

Hmph.What are you on about?

The Summoner of Leviathan

12-31-2005, 04:48 PM

KH...Christian influences? Well...to be honest, KH reminds me of William Goldening's Lord of the Flies more than anything. Not only is it about the struggle of light and darkness, but also about their nature and where they came from.

Like said before demons are not the advent of Christianity and are present in many belief systems.

I thought the mysterious voice was Ansem at the beginning of the game. Also he is not a satanic figure. He is just your typical corrupted by avarice villian. His only crime was in his search of knowledge and truth.

*stares at SuperMillionaire* Did you pay attention to the KH game at all when it refered to the kingdom of hearts? Here is a recap of it. In the deppest of darkness we find the brightest of lights, therefore you had to travel through End World (A deep dark world) to arrive at the place of the brightest light. Ansem was trying to take over and corrupt the Kingdom of Hearts for then he would have the whole universe for it is the heart of all worlds. (Also all darkness is born of hearts, so in a paradox we find light in darkness and darkness in light. Almost giving the two as progenetors of the other--one cannot have light without darkness nor can darkness exist without light). So you go to seal the Heart of All worlds from the taintous touch of Ansem. So to compare the Kingdom of Hearts to Hell is quite ludicrous. Hell is either the whole brimestone and fire place of eternal torment or in a more modern perspective, life without God (for those who believe anyways). Neither descriptions are fit any aspect of the Kingdom of Hearts.

BTW Raphael Soral, Chronicles of Narnia are full with Christian allusions. The series is well known for it, so it is not surprising to find any in the movie. There are books upon books about the Christian symbolism in the series.

Psydekick

12-31-2005, 05:06 PM

Do you think Riku did the same thing as Judas?

StarlightAngel

12-31-2005, 07:25 PM

No, Riku is just a little rich kid who wanted too much to go to other worlds, and didn't think about what it would cost him.

And yes, "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" is known for it's Christian references. That isn't just people trying to point out a "connection" between random events and characters and what-not.

However, this is.

Azure Chrysanthemum

12-31-2005, 07:55 PM

Riku also fell into Maleficent's hands, and he was shown to be rather naive and trusting in some cases. It wasn't a willful betrayal, like Judas. Riku thought Sora had betrayed HIM.

Shadow The Red XIII Thing

01-01-2006, 03:55 AM

I have not seen christian scenes in KH I however am just stating again that Sqenix is well known for Judeo-Christian influences. Such as the story of FF4 is the story of saul who was evil then turned good by the light and changed his name to Paul which is when he Cecil turns into a paladin. This isnt wishful thinking its the truth. Also the chronicles was written with christian influence as apart of the original idea.

Ansem/Sephy

01-03-2006, 08:55 PM

The voice that calls out to Sora in the beginning- that's Ansem (a character you compared to Satan), not a character easily compared to God.

Which Ansem? DiZ or Xehanort?

Lord Xehanort

01-04-2006, 12:14 AM

DiZ didn't exist in KH.

SuperMillionaire

01-04-2006, 12:46 AM

Which Ansem? DiZ or Xehanort?
Xehanort.

KH-Cloudy

01-11-2006, 03:50 AM

God wouldnt be in a game....and besides JAPANESE PEOPLE CREATED IT

The Summoner of Leviathan

01-11-2006, 05:18 AM

KH-Cloudy, he is not talking literally but in a symbolic sense. Anyways, eventhough it was created by Japanese it would not limit them from putting symbollic characters in it. Anyways like already said. There are no Chrisitian specific symbols in KH. The general symbols can be applied to many systems and is not only inherent to Chrisitianity. Good versus Evil, Order versus Chaos, are all old themes that date defore Christianity.