Terrestrial fossiles on GSL?

[Future Esthar]

Alright,we know that the Great Salt Lake was a beautiful lake who gets dry.
But we can find lots of fossils here.It doesn´t look to me that they were earlier than 17 years so they were there too earlier than the lake´s dry.
Now it happens that there were much more terestrial fossiles on the lake than fishes.Can someone explain me this?
Ancient Lunar Cry?´Not my personal view.
I just remember to see one giant fish on the lake.
The other ones were dinossaur like.

[Paninipower123]

Well given that Esthar is a desert land the lake could have dried up and all its in habitants with it long, long ago.

[Future Esthar]

Are you saying that Estharians lived underwater?

[Paninipower123]

By inhabitants I meant the sea creatures that lived in it. They could be anscestors of T-Rexs that died off here long, long ago. Just a guess.

[Future Esthar]

English is not my main language.To be dried up means to be filled with water or out of water?

[Paninipower123]

Dried up means to have no water.

[Future Esthar]

But how can there be terrestrial creatures on the lake?They were not fishes.

[Paninipower123]

How do you know that they are terrestrial?

[Future Esthar]

Some of them looked like TERRESTRIAL T-rex.And most had legs.

[Paninipower123]

What does a "Terrestrial" T-Rex look?
If you say these T Rexs look like aliens then I can say that every other monster in FF8 is an "ET." And plus all the monsters are from the moon so naturally they have these "terrestial" features that you see.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Paninipower, perhaps you should review the definition of the word terrestrial.

Future Esthar, it is true that the Esthar civilization once lived underwater. This is made clear by inferring certain things that are said by some characters.

[Paninipower123]

No entry found for terrestial.
Did you mean Teretial?

Suggestions:
Teretial
torrential
forestial
Triserial
torrentially
tree snail
true seal

Thats what I see on the website.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Terrestrial.

[Paninipower123]

...Didn't see the R. That was very embarassing...

[Future Esthar]

I mean land (i.e. not marine) animals.

[Christmas]

The lake might had been there ages ago or it wasn't a lake a few billions years ago.

It is like how we find dino bones underground.

[Omnislash07]

uh... where does it say that the Estar people once lived underwater. i think i missed that part.

oh and all those bones could just be animals that wandered into the middle of the area and died of dehydration or something or they could have fallen in the lake and drowned when there was still water in it

[Future Esthar]

Looking at them they seem very ancient(from before the lake dry).
And isn´t strange that there were more land animals than fishes?

This all shows that there was a flood on this area many years ago.Even before it was a lake it was land.

[Kamiko]

With Lunar Cry bombarding the planet with monsters annually, some monsters might've just landed in the lake and died. The lake is pretty big so it's plausible.

[Omnislash07]

maybe they werent actually land animals maybe they were amphibians.
when the lake dried out they didnt have any water so they all died

that would explain why there are so many non-fish skeletons there

[G SpOtZ]

This is a game, it's a different world, it's not Earth. This world has creatures that Earth doesn't have... so how can you predict that these land animals couldn't breathe underwater?? Just because they don't look like fish doesn't mean they can't breathe underwater, you know what I mean?

[Qurange]

Well, if we accept that the FF8 world has things like physics and so on, even if there are some variations (magic's presence in a world can make things a bit different), I don't see anything that says that they might /not/ have been animals that existed however long ago, before the Lake was underwater. We aren't given an exact age of the FF8 world, but there's no reason to assume that it doesn't have a lot of history.

Of course, they could just be dragons who lived underwater or whatever, but either works.

[Christmas]

Looking at them they seem very ancient(from before the lake dry).
And isn´t strange that there were more land animals than fishes?

This all shows that there might be a flood on this area many many many many many many years ago.Even before it was a lake it was land.

Landscape changes throughout the years.

[Future Esthar]

Actually I believe it was the Lunar cry Who enabled the flood on this area.
As I already said,the floor on the central triangular area of the world must me not too deep considering that they created a big bridge and a city on the middle.
This shows there is a lost flooded continent here which includes also the dried GSL.

Considering this we conclude that the landscape around the lake are the top of high mountains.

Which means that the sea level on FH era is different than the sea level on Galbadia and other eras.
However a trick on the WOTC system made the waters seemed aligned.
When people time travel they also get higher on space.

[Aurora_sword]

This is a game, it's a different world, it's not Earth. This world has creatures that Earth doesn't have... so how can you predict that these land animals couldn't breathe underwater?? Just because they don't look like fish doesn't mean they can't breathe underwater, you know what I mean?
you know...if they live underwater, they wouldnt have any use of legs...They wouldnt have legs.

[Omnislash07]

Future Estar where in the hell do you get this stuff. I mean seriously, whats with the WOTC and stuff your always talking about.

[Christmas]

Actually I believe it was the Lunar cry Who enabled the flood on this area.
As I already said,the floor on the central triangular area of the world must me not too deep considering that they created a big bridge and a city on the middle.
This shows there is a lost flooded continent here which includes also the dried GSL.

Considering this we conclude that the landscape around the lake are the top of high mountains.

Which means that the sea level on FH era is different than the sea level on Galbadia and other eras.
However a trick on the WOTC system made the waters seemed aligned.
When people time travel they also get higher on space.


http://www.southern.com/southern/band/NOMEA/pics/index2004_r1_c1.jpg

[Neco Arc]

you know...if they live underwater, they wouldnt have any use of legs...They wouldnt have legs.

not true... some marine animals do have "legs"... eg. crabs, lobsters, fish, etc

[Zanius]

Actually I believe it was the Lunar cry Who enabled the flood on this area.
As I already said,the floor on the central triangular area of the world must me not too deep considering that they created a big bridge and a city on the middle.
This shows there is a lost flooded continent here which includes also the dried GSL.

Considering this we conclude that the landscape around the lake are the top of high mountains.

Which means that the sea level on FH era is different than the sea level on Galbadia and other eras.
However a trick on the WOTC system made the waters seemed aligned.
When people time travel they also get higher on space.

So the big WOTC, changed the planet and now his present vision is the world map that we all know. It does make sense... I mean it would explain the link between FH and Esthar city. Some big part of the land on this area is underwater. I think that I understood your point of view.

[Christmas]

So the big WOTC, changed the planet and now his present vision is the world map that we all know. It does make sense... I mean it would explain the link between FH and Esthar city. Some big part of the land on this area is underwater. I think that I understood your point of view.

NOT ONLY THIS. THERE'S EVEN MORE.

[Zanius]

NOT ONLY THIS. THERE'S EVEN MORE.

Then tell me please!

[Christmas]

WOTC (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=73702)

IS (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=71270) BEAUTIFUL. (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=67375)

RIGHT? (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=74851)

[Zanius]

WOTC (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=73702)

IS (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=71270) BEAUTIFUL. (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=67375)

RIGHT? (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=74851)

Ok thank you! :)

I'll might get those threads active again! :D

Those ideas should not be lost in the air.

[Christmas]

Ok thank you! :)

I'll might get those threads active again! :D

Those ideas should not be lost in the air.


http://www.elet.polimi.it/upload/sampietr/didattica/Think-twice.jpg

[Zanius]

I... better just read them and to keep my mouth shut... :rolleyes2

I see your point...

[Future Esthar]

To soul hunter-
A área á volta de Esthar é a mesma área á volta de FH só que em diferentes eras.
Em ordem cronológica: Área FH->Área DSRC->Galbadia->Winhill->Esthar.
To other members:
DSRC is actually Balamb Garden.Also,FH and Deling city are one and the same place.

[HowlingMonkey]

Yes! And Dollet is Balamb, Galbadia is Minnesota 3000 years in the future, Zell is Irvine's mum and Zone was possessed by Omega Weapon! And it's all because Trabia Garden is built on top of Mount Olympus! I can play this game too! Whee! :D

[Future Esthar]

And Dollet is Balamb

This is the only you got right.

I see no reason to say that Zone is possessed by Omega Weapon,Galbadia is Minnesota 3000 years in the future,Zell is Irvine´s mum(am not that stupid) and Trabia Garden is built on top of Mount Olympus.

However I presented valid reasons to state my theories.

So don´t make stupid comparisons.

[Zanius]

To soul hunter-
A área á volta de Esthar é a mesma área á volta de FH só que em diferentes eras.
Em ordem cronológica: Área FH->Área DSRC->Galbadia->Winhill->Esthar.

A ordem cronológica referida é após a época de Hyne e os seus respectivos descendentes, certo? Se bem que todos os seus decendentes governaram Centra até a Compressão do Tempo... digo eu...portanto a tal Compressão do Tempo não teve nada a ver com as modificações terrestres sofridas... apenas juntou as eras em uma só.

[Xzirox]

All we know is that Great Salt Lake once was a lake filled with salt water, and its now dried up. If the lake was to cover, say, the entire Esthar region - it would be covered with SALT and its not.

That means that the lake never was any bigger then it is now. As for all the LAND fossiles, they can just aswell be, say, T-Rexaurs that tried to cross the dried lake and died because of dehydration.

[Christmas]

This is the only you got right.

I see no reason to say that Zone is possessed by Omega Weapon,Galbadia is Minnesota 3000 years in the future,Zell is Irvine´s mum(am not that stupid) and Trabia Garden is built on top of Mount Olympus.

You have no reasons to say they are propagators and that Family Tree of yours valid anyway.


However I presented valid reasons to state my theories.


http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7426/goodone2gp.png


DSRC is actually Balamb Garden.Also,FH and Deling city are one and the same place.


http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1019/walrussaysno6og.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/GALBADIA.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/DSRC.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/FH.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/5386/winner4yd.png

[Rusty]

It's a video game. Does it really matter?

[Future Esthar]

You have no reasons to say they are propagators and that Family Tree of yours valid anyway.


Yes I have.Valid reasons weren´t proofs but they ENHANCE the validity of a theory.

For example,looking at Rinoa and little Ellone´s appearance and personality we find lots of reasons to say that they are the same person.I already stated these reasons.
Unfortunately,people thinks time travel is impossible on FF8 and use the age argument to deny the theory.

So people should stop these stupid comparisions they create to make fun of me.They had nothing in common with my theories.


DSRC is actually Balamb Garden.Also,FH and Deling city are one and the same place.

For those who don´t understood(like Unknowns).

Balamb Garden is DSRC ON THE FUTURE and Deling City is FH ON THE FUTURE.

[Qurange]

I have a question.

In the real world, if we saw two people whom looked alike--I've seen many people who look very alike, in fact--would we say that it's then possible that they were the same person? Would we say this even if they were sometimes in the same room?

I don't think we would. And until I have a reason to think otherwise, I have no reason to think that FFVIII's world is any different.

And Rusty...That's a fairly silly question to ask on a gaming forum, isn't it?

[Future Esthar]

We do because they were two important characters on a game created by human beings with a purpose.
And they don´t seemed alike.They are EQUAL(just differ on age).

[Christmas]

Yes I have.Valid reasons weren´t proofs but they ENHANCE the validity of a theory.

We have also valid reasons to said your theories aren't valid.


For example,looking at Rinoa and little Ellone´s appearance and personality we find lots of reasons to say that they are the same person.


COMPARE
http://members.aol.com/abishort/Pictures/rinoa_dreamy.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/ellone.jpg
I already stated these reasons.

So do I.

Unfortunately,people thinks time travel is impossible on FF8 and use the age argument to deny the theory.

Eventually, we denied the theory regardlessly what the arguement is and you said you can't PROOFED prove it.

And if you dun want anyone to deny or make fun of your theory, go post it somewhere else where people can only read it while can't comment it. Or only positive comments is allowed.


So people should stop these stupid comparisions they create to make fun of me.They had nothing in common with my theories.

Yes they are. They are as random and irrelevant as the theories itself.


For those who don´t understood(like Unknowns).

Unknowns don't understand, no worries. I understand.


Balamb Garden is DSRC ON THE FUTURE and Deling City is FH ON THE FUTURE.

No it's aren't.


We do because they were two important characters on a game created by human beings with a purpose.
And they don´t seemed alike.They are EQUAL(just differ on age).


I can see there is much linkage of FF8 and FF X after being "enlighten" by Future's Theories.

Hyne is the almighty god of FF 8 and the first sorceress.
Yu Yevon is the "god" of FF X and the leader of summoners.

People in FF 8 originated from the Centra civilization except for the Estharians. So that make two major civilizations in the game, Centra and Esthar but Centra was destroyed.

In FF X, Zanarkand and Bevelle was the two major civilizations and Zanarkand was destroyed.

In FF 8, Esthar speciallized in machine and technology while it is a mystery of what the Centra people specialized in.

In FF X, Bevelle specialized in machine and technology while Zanarkand their precious summoners.

Mysterious points known as "draw points" is seen popping out of the ground in FF 8 which is much believe is the point that lead to the spirit energies of the farplane in FF X.

A deep sea research center is built in the middle of nowhere to dig deep in the ground for research purposes. I believe they are digging for the passageway to the farplane.

So I assume Zanarkand is actually Centra!!! After Yuna save the world the second time, people begin inhabited and rebuild Zanarkand.
And Bevelle move on with its technology until the Lunar cry which wipe out the Centra. Also, Besaid island might just be Balamb.

We were told that Yu Yevon is an immortal and won't kick the bucket that easily so I assume Yu Yevon live on for centuries bidding his time. As time goes by, people will forget about Yu Yevon so he resurfaced as Hyne. Yu Yevon also know as Hyne pass his power to other sorceress and those that receive his powers is under his mercy.

Sorceress that receive his powers is condemned by those around her and in anger, sorceress unleash their wrath upon humans. When sorceress is upon the blink of death, they pass their powers to other sorceress and continued their terror.

See the link? This is like Spira's "Spiral of Death" and the sorceress is just other Sin used by Yevon/Hyne.

After getting to heard of Ellone/Rinoa, Yevon came up with a even evilier plot than the old school "Spiral of Death" which is time compression. So he picked on a suitable candidate which hold his powers to do the job which happen to be Edea\Uli\Julia. That explain why Uti\Edea\Julia can only possess sorceress.

So, "X" = Hyne/Yevon.

Most alike, ever.

[Future Esthar]

We have also valid reasons to said your theories aren't valid.


Where?
There were NOTHING (and if there were give me examples).
What I see is that you need glasses.


For example,looking at Rinoa and LITTLE Ellone´s appearance and personality we find lots of reasons to say that they are the same person.


Eventually, we denied the theory regardlessly what the arguement is and you said you can't PROOFED prove it.

And if you dun want anyone to deny or make fun of your theory, go post it somewhere else where people can only read it while can't comment it. Or only positive comments is allowed.



You misunderstood me.I only said it is pathethic to deny my theory USING the age argument when time travel is a main concept on FF8 and the arguments I made were covincing and greater in number than the counter arguments.These ones were pathetic compared with the arguments (due to the already stated reasons).


Yes they are. They are as random and irrelevant as the theories itself.

No they weren´t random,they were deeply thought (I thought more than twice when I made them up).I have valid reasons for them while there is no valid reasons for the sarcastic ones.


No it's aren't.


I admit I don´t have the proof they are.
Now it´s your time to proof otherwise.Go ahead.

[Christmas]

Where?
There were NOTHING (and if there were give me examples).

Nothing suggests they were Propogators as suggested by the game
Nothing suggest Midgar is Deling as suggested by the game
*insert something here* as suggested by the game.


What I see is that you need glasses.

I love glasses especially they are filled with ice lemon tea.


http://www.incredibleinedibles.shoppingcartsplus.com/i/Fake%20Drinks/IM008737.JPG



You misunderstood me.I only said it is pathethic to deny my theory USING the age argument when time travel is a main concept on FF8 and the arguments I made were covincing and greater in number than the counter arguments.These ones were pathetic compared with the arguments (due to the already stated reasons).

No. It should be the other way round.


No they weren´t random,they were deeply thought (I thought more than twice when I made them up).I have valid reasons for them while there is no valid reasons for the sarcastic ones.

LIKE DR ODINE WAS "X" or once "X"???? Or Adel was once "X" too??


I admit I don´t have the proof they are.
Now it´s your time to proof otherwise.Go ahead.

Proof prove what? My "X" equal Yu Yevon Theory or your theories? Just look at the in game tutorial will rebuke every single point of your theories, that is proof.

[HowlingMonkey]

Dear Future Esthar

Hi. Nice to meet you. I've read all of your theories that are still available to be read on the boards and can I just say thank you. I haven't laughed so hard in weeks.

Ahem.

Anyway, can I just say something?

You do realise that you are making all this stuff up? That there is actually no possible chance of what you're saying being true? That your "theories" are non-sensical from the fundamental flawed concept?

Let me explain the difference between theory and speculation. A theory is an idea that can be strongly backed up with direct quotes/images from the source material. Speculation is just a suggestion, that at best can never be disproved but never be proved either and at worst can easily be disproved. That's all you have. Speculation.

So please, do not try to force your speculation onto the rest of us as pure fact. It isn't. It's an idea, and if you want to accept this idea despite all evidence to the contrary then that's fine, as long as you don't arrogantly preach your speculation and try to get confirmation from the rest of us. Cause that ain't going to happen. Rinoa is not Ellone. She is quite clearly the daughter of Julia Heartlilly.

I believe that is all. Good day.

[Discord]

Dear Future Esthar

Hi. Nice to meet you. I've read all of your theories that are still available to be read on the boards and can I just say thank you. I haven't laughed so hard in weeks.

Ahem.

Anyway, can I just say something?

You do realise that you are making all this stuff up? That there is actually no possible chance of what you're saying being true? That your "theories" are non-sensical from the fundamental flawed concept?

Let me explain the difference between theory and speculation. A theory is an idea that can be strongly backed up with direct quotes/images from the source material. Speculation is just a suggestion, that at best can never be disproved but never be proved either and at worst can easily be disproved. That's all you have. Speculation.

So please, do not try to force your speculation onto the rest of us as pure fact. It isn't. It's an idea, and if you want to accept this idea despite all evidence to the contrary then that's fine, as long as you don't arrogantly preach your speculation and try to get confirmation from the rest of us. Cause that ain't going to happen. Rinoa is not Ellone. She is quite clearly the daughter of Julia Heartlilly.

I believe that is all. Good day.

Seriously, does anyone still have that thread about "The True Plot of FFVIII", by PIP and me, saved? That's about the depth of the idea and is about as close to reality as this post, the only difference though, is that we were making fun of the game and certain other personalities(noone in particular) aren't.


We have also valid reasons to said your theories aren't valid.




COMPARE
http://members.aol.com/abishort/Pictures/rinoa_dreamy.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/ellone.jpg


Yeah, both look equally pretty, however, that doesn't make them identical. Plus, if they were identical, that would mean that Squall actually goes out with his "sister" and that's quite disturbing. Since the game is meant to be a "game" for people 12+(if I'm not mistaken), it's most probably not the case.

And last but not least, if we follow this line of though, you could say that the whole game consist of one character who travelled through time, had a couple of beauty surgeries and changed his sex in the process. Thus everyone in the game is The One Protagonist, i.e. we are talking about an omniscient God controlling the world and killing himself in different dimensions for the sake of having some fun.

You see where it leads?

If you don't, try adding an aspect of time travel to the real life(i.e. not FFVIII). This, following your line of reason would mean that I am FE, Unknowns, Cid, President Bush, Saddam Hussein and Mona Lisa at the same time. If you enhance the idea, it will lead us to Buddhism like world, where I will try to reach the Nirvana as the end effect of my reincarnation into different people and since we are talking about an omniscient God, there can be no Nirvana but the place where he is already.

Finally, the last three paragraphs are officially said to be a load of nonsense, deducted with the method of FE and all the counter argument. Give it up, the system as presented doesn't work and leads us to a closed circle.

Conclusion: No offence, but it is killed line of arguments, FE.


http://www.theclinicinc.org/art/the_sign.jpg

[Future Esthar]

That´s not the thruth.My theories can coexist with the game without denying anything on it.

An example:

I never said that Edea told Squall she was possessed by Superman because that didn´t happen.She said that she was possessed by Ulti.

I don´t deny that the apparent events were there.
I am just saying what happens behound the "curtains".

The Lunatic Pandora do what I told it do.

People don´t see it because the Pandora has the ability to become transparent(as we see when the Pandora approaches Tear´s point).

The Pandora was created by the Esthar Soldiers and no one can predict if they created time traveling Properties on it under Adel´s orders.

You seem to misunderstand what a government secret is:
You live on the USA and there were lots of it there
Area 51,Alien Coverage,etc...

Sometimes they went to public knowledge and some other times they remain Top Secret.
The last ones weren´t obviously thaught at schools worldwide nor they appear on books.
The first ones were those that appear on the tutorial.

[Zanius]

Yeah, both look equally pretty, however, that doesn't make them identical. Plus, if they were identical, that would mean that Squall actually goes out with his "sister" and that's quite disturbing. Since the game is meant to be a "game" for people 12+(if I'm not mistaken), it's most probably not the case.



Even that theory is correct, Squall and Rinoa (or Ellone) could not be her sister.

Squall’s parents are Laguna and Raine, Caraway and Julia are the Rinoa’s parents (or Ellone…).

[?????]

I never said that Edea told Squall she was possessed by Superman because that didn´t happen.She said that she was possessed by Ulti.

That would have been cool, though.


You seem to misunderstand what a government secret is:
You live on the USA and there were lots of it there
Area 51,Alien Coverage,etc...

So? If we're getting alien technology, what are you complaining about? Governments HAVE to keep secrets for the security of the people. Jeez, should military battle plans also be public knowledge? Should fighter jets in development have every single specification displayed on the Air Force website?

Not only that, Square is hardly a government. At least last time I checked. As much money as they make, you can never be quite sure.

[Discord]

Even that theory is correct, Squall and Rinoa (or Ellone) could not be her sister.

Squall’s parents are Laguna and Raine, Caraway and Julia are the Rinoa’s parents (or Ellone…).

Agreed, my mistake here. Confused the characters.


That´s not the thruth.My theories can coexist with the game without denying anything on it.


However that makes them speculations and not theories, as said above. Plus, apart from not denying anything, they are not being approved by anything either.


I am just saying what happens behound the "curtains".

Erm... We are in a computer game here, behind the curtains would be on somebody's keyboard.


People don´t see it because the Pandora has the ability to become transparent(as we see when the Pandora approaches Tear´s point).

I think Lunatic Pandora didn't go invisible or transparent, it was just a poorly made effect of it moving into distance.


The Pandora was created by the Esthar Soldiers and no one can predict if they created time traveling Properties on it under Adel´s orders.

I think it was found by Esthar and not created by them.


You live on the USA and there were lots of it there
Area 51,Alien Coverage,etc...

Even without living in USA, I can truly say, that noone has yet officially announced the existence of Area 51, just as noone has verified the Roswell incident.


Sometimes they went to public knowledge and some other times they remain Top Secret.
The last ones weren´t obviously thaught at schools worldwide nor they appear on books.
The first ones were those that appear on the tutorial.

Are we still talking about Final Fantasy here?

[Qurange]

That´s not the thruth.My theories can coexist with the game without denying anything on it.

This isn't true. Your theories contradict multiple articles in the Information section, and a good deal of dialogue. You can say that your theories are interesting all you like, but it's not nice to lie about what's above. Most of your theories are based on graphical glitches and completely subjective opinions of how the graphics look. Sorry, but your theories require that we assume that, for whatever reason the information that the game gives is not accurate. (For example, you state that Ellone and Rinoa are the same person; the game states that Ellone's parents are dead, while it also states that Rinoa's parents are Julia and Caraway; Julia is dead, and Caraway is alive. Unless we say that the game was inaccurate in describing its own characters, your speculation is out of canon.)

If we accept that, we aren't playing FF8 anymore, we're dealing with a world that's yours, loosely based on FF8. I have more interest in the world of the game itself, thanks.

A decent theory is one that not only doesn't contradict game canon, but supports game canon--something that fills a hole. If we're going to contradict any canon at all, there should be a very good reason for it that fits with the theme of the game overall.

As a sidenote, the Pandora was built by Esthar--but the Crystal Pillar was not. And it would be inaccurate to say that the soldiers 'built' anything.

[Discord]

A little bit off-topic, but still close to it. What was the Crystal Pillar actually used for?(the realistic version please)

[?????]

Actually, Area 51 does exist. It's simply the pop-culture name for an Air Force base in Groom Lake, Nevada. Hell, if I lived in Nevada I could drive you to the damn base; everyone knows where it is, but as it is a military testing facility, they don't sell tickets.

It's also incorrect to say the Roswell incident hasn't been verified. The incident itself happened; it's simply skewed interpretation of the incident that has been used to claim the existence of UFOs. The desert is where the military does much of their testing, and it's easy to mistake a new, strangely-shaped aircraft as a UFO.

[Future Esthar]

For example, you state that Ellone and Rinoa are the same person; the game states that Ellone's parents are dead, while it also states that Rinoa's parents are Julia and Caraway; Julia is dead, and Caraway is alive. Unless we say that the game was inaccurate in describing its own characters, your speculation is out of canon.)

It is not contradicting the tutorial,do you see how you still misunderstand things?
Ellone´s parents were dead.
However I bet people on Galbadia thought Squall was dead.But he misteriously recovers on the prison.The same goes with Laguna.
Suppose this situation:
Julia "dies" on a car crash.But then she got possessed by X ,recovers,chages her physical appearance and get to Winhill with Rinoa and her husband(not Caraway but Rinoa´s true father).Then she "dies again" along with her husband.
Now Julia recovers,turns into Ultimecia and later into Edea and went to Centra.
These things could had happened hidden from civilization.No one knows Julia is alive.That´s why it didn´t appear on the tutorial.It appears that she died because that was what people around the globe thought had happened.Same goes for Ellone´s parents.
Caraway says that Rinoa is his daughter but he could be lying or hidding something.
So as you see there weren´t any inconsistencies between my story and FF8 superficial story.
.

[Neco Arc]

It is not contradicting the tutorial,do you see how you still misunderstand things?
Ellone´s parents were dead.
However I bet people on Galbadia thought Squall was dead.But he misteriously recovers on the prison.The same goes with Laguna.
Suppose this situation:
Julia "dies" on a car crash.But then she got possessed by X ,recovers,chages her physical appearance and get to Winhill with Rinoa and her husband(not Caraway but Rinoa´s true father).Then she "dies again" along with her husband.
Now Julia recovers,turns into Ultimecia and later into Edea and went to Centra.
These things could had happened hidden from civilization.No one knows Julia is alive.That´s why it didn´t appear on the tutorial.It appears that she died because that was what people around the globe thought had happened.Same goes for Ellone´s parents.
Caraway says that Rinoa is his daughter but he could be lying or hidding something.
So as you see there weren´t any inconsistencies between my story and FF8 superficial story.
.

NO...

[Discord]

Actually, Area 51 does exist. It's simply the pop-culture name for an Air Force base in Groom Lake, Nevada. Hell, if I lived in Nevada I could drive you to the damn base; everyone knows where it is, but as it is a military testing facility, they don't sell tickets.

It's also incorrect to say the Roswell incident hasn't been verified. The incident itself happened; it's simply skewed interpretation of the incident that has been used to claim the existence of UFOs. The desert is where the military does much of their testing, and it's easy to mistake a new, strangely-shaped aircraft as a UFO.

That depends on what you mean as verified.:)

[Qurange]

It is not contradicting the tutorial,do you see how you still misunderstand things?
Ellone´s parents were dead.
However I bet people on Galbadia thought Squall was dead.But he misteriously recovers on the prison.The same goes with Laguna.
Suppose this situation:
Julia "dies" on a car crash.But then she got possessed by X ,recovers,chages her physical appearance and get to Winhill with Rinoa and her husband(not Caraway but Rinoa´s true father).Then she "dies again" along with her husband.
Now Julia recovers,turns into Ultimecia and later into Edea and went to Centra.
These things could had happened hidden from civilization.No one knows Julia is alive.That´s why it didn´t appear on the tutorial.It appears that she died because that was what people around the globe thought had happened.Same goes for Ellone´s parents.
Caraway says that Rinoa is his daughter but he could be lying or hidding something.
So as you see there weren´t any inconsistencies between my story and FF8 superficial story.
.


People in the game can lie, that's true. However, I see no reason that the Information section in the tutorial would be inaccurate. That isn't given by any IC source; it's the same as a game manual, the manual that says that Quistis is 5'6" and her blood type is A. This is information about the world given to the player; not everyone in the world knows all of it, though some of it, sure, is common knowledge. Where things are in question, the Tutorial stated as much.

Unless you can prove that there's a good reason that the Tutorial, the manual, and, just not to leave it out, the Ultimania would be inaccurate as regards game canon, your theories are still highly AU ideas that don't fit with canon.

[Future Esthar]

Interestingly enough the Seed tests are on the tutorial section.
Now,do you think that Squaresoft put it there just as an interactive tutorial to help the player get the basics of the battle system?
Of course not.Would there be no need to make written exams to become a Seed it wouldn´t appear on the tutorial.Thus it is contextual and not absolute.
Also,how can you explain expressions like "Is still unknown" or "Its difficult to determine" on the tutorial?Squaresoft knows everything so either they tell it or keep quiet about the subject if they wanna to surprise us.They made the game after all.It would be as pathethic as if one find "The effect of the triangle button is there but is unknown" on the game manual.
Which means that the tutorial is context sensitive and not an absolute description by Square.

[Qurange]

Then let me be more specific. The information set in the Information section of the Tutorial.

I can explain such expressions by stating that some things were meant to be left somewhat mysterious, and many things were explained in further detail later. This doesn't mean that what /is/ given is inaccurate. Your analogy is fundamentally flawed because the triangle button has nothing to do with FF8's world.

Furthermore, your theories contradict information in the FF Ultimania, a publication specifically designed to give further background information on the game in question.

I would talk about what you're saying about the SeeD exams, but I have to ask you to rephrase that, instead. I'm not sure what you mean because the language is unclear.

[Discord]

Interestingly enough the Seed tests are on the tutorial section.
Now,do you think that Squaresoft put it there just as an interactive tutorial to help the player get the basics of the battle system?
Of course not.Would there be no need to make written exams to become a Seed it wouldn´t appear on the tutorial.Thus it is contextual and not absolute.


You know, the SeeD-Tests are meant to be a little bonus for you to simplify the game as well as permitting you to enhance you knowledge in the battle system. No secrets there.

As for the Information section, you can very well leave out some information, for the reasons named by Q above, however, that doesn't mean that the other date is incorrect. An analogy for you: It is yet unknown how to cure HIV, for we do not yet have a way of destroying the virus without damaging the host organism. However, that doesn't mean that we are not aware of the fact that it is a virus. See where it leads? Not knowing a part of something doesn't terminate the previously stated arguments.

EDIT: Just if you get bored, here's something that really explains it all:p
http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=68618

Have fun!

[Christmas]

It is not contradicting the tutorial,do you see how you still misunderstand things?
Ellone´s parents were dead.
However I bet people on Galbadia thought Squall was dead.But he misteriously recovers on the prison.

No dude. The wardens and milltary personnels of GALBADIA knew Squall is still alive and also nor will bother whether Squall live or not in Galbadia.



Julia "dies" on a car crash.But then she got possessed by X ,recovers,chages her physical appearance and get to Winhill with Rinoa and her husband(not Caraway but Rinoa´s true father).Then she "dies again" along with her husband.

Why didn't Laguna or Squall change their appearance or get possessed by "X" after they are announced in the GAME as alive and kicking.



Now Julia recovers,turns into Ultimecia and later into Edea and went to Centra.

HOW DO JULIA CHANGES TO ULTIMECIA'S ACCENT???? THAT'S SOME TERIFFIC SKILLS YA KNOW.


These things could had happened hidden from civilization.No one knows Julia is alive.That´s why it didn´t appear on the tutorial.

How come you know?


it appears that she died because that was what people around the globe thought had happened.Same goes for Ellone´s parents.
Does that mean
Caraway says that Rinoa is his daughter but he could be lying or hidding something.

Edea said she passed her powers to Rinoa, but if your case apply, she can be LYING too. Then where do Rinoa got her powers?


So as you see there weren´t any inconsistencies between my story and FF8 superficial story.


Cause you said that everyone is lying and the whole story is a whole pack of lies.


I never said that Edea told Squall she was possessed by Superman because that didn´t happen.She said that she was possessed by Ulti.

She can be lying too.


I don´t deny that the apparent events were there.
I am just saying what happens behound the "curtains".

That is when it is support by the events in the game.


People don´t see it because the Pandora has the ability to become transparent(as we see when the Pandora approaches Tear´s point).

Screenshots pls.





Interestingly enough the Seed tests are on the tutorial section.
Now,do you think that Squaresoft put it there just as an interactive tutorial to help the player get the basics of the battle system?
Of course not.Would there be no need to make written exams to become a Seed it wouldn´t appear on the tutorial.Thus it is contextual and not absolute.

You become a SeeD by passing that exam in Disc 1 and these written stuffs here promote your rank so you can have more cash in your pocket if you want. If you dun want to demonstrate your 1337 gosu final fantasy viii knowledge onto the test, you can dun take them.



Also,how can you explain expressions like "Is still unknown" or "Its difficult to determine" on the tutorial?

It is pointless and meaningless to do so or they wanted to add the details in the Ultimania. How about they said "Squall farted exactly 1082 time throughout the game. The first time was in his dorm at disc 1...blah blah. It will turn the tutorial 1 millions pages long.



Squaresoft knows everything so either they tell it or keep quiet about the subject if they wanna to surprise us.They made the game after all.It would be as pathethic as if one find "The effect of the triangle button is there but is unknown" on the game manual.Which means that the tutorial is context sensitive and not an absolute description by Square.


http://www.spritemotion.com/usagy/FFVIII/ffviii_ultimania.jpg

[Discord]

No dude. The wardens and milltary personnels of GALBADIA knew Squall is still alive and also nor will bother whether Squall live or not in Galbadia.




Why didn't Laguna or Squall change their appearance or get possessed by "X" after they are announced in the GAME as alive and kicking.




HOW DO JULIA CHANGES TO ULTIMECIA'S ACCENT???? THAT'S SOME TERIFFIC SKILLS YA KNOW.



How come you know?



Edea said she passed her powers to Rinoa, but if your case apply, she can be LYING too. Then where do Rinoa got her powers?



Cause you said that everyone is lying and the whole story is a whole pack of lies.



She can be lying too.



That is when it is support by the events in the game.



Screenshots pls.





You become a SeeD by passing that exam in Disc 1 and these written stuffs here promote your rank so you can have more cash in your pocket if you want. If you dun want to demonstrate your 1337 gosu final fantasy viii knowledge onto the test, you can dun take them.




It is pointless and meaningless to do so or they wanted to add the details in the Ultimania. How about they said "Squall farted exactly 1082 time throughout the game. The first time was in his dorm at disc 1...blah blah. It will turn the tutorial 1 millions pages long.





http://www.spritemotion.com/usagy/FFVIII/ffviii_ultimania.jpg

Ouch... this is soon reaching a size of a novel.

And it does become transparent, he's right, but that's just a cheap effect. You know, when your team gets kicked out by TYPE11 or whatever the name was.

[MJN SEIFER]

Nothing suggest Midgar is Deling as suggested by the game

Oh really...


This places was taken by life energy In the past...

I haven't got it word for word though...

[Christmas]

Oh really...



I haven't got it word for word though...


http://sokar.cwru.edu/images/yarly.jpg

[Discord]

http://sokar.cwru.edu/images/yarly.jpg

Just out of curiousity, do you have all those pictures save or do you just draw them when you need one?

[Future Esthar]

I can explain such expressions by stating that some things were meant to be left somewhat mysterious, and many things were explained in further detail later.

Which means the tutorial is context sensitive and Square is saying "People found this through research but this other thing is still mysterious".
Otherwise they would just shut up.


No dude. The wardens and milltary personnels of GALBADIA knew Squall is still alive and also nor will bother whether Squall live or not in Galbadia.


I mean,citizens outside of the prison.


Why didn't Laguna or Squall change their appearance or get possessed by "X" after they are announced in the GAME as alive and kicking.



Laguna don´t really dies and Squall recovered because Ellone send him to Laguna(when a person get hurt or healed on the dream world the damage or healing affects the sent person also).


Cause you said that everyone is lying and the whole story is a whole pack of lies.


My definition of lye on the game:

To say something about an event that contradict what the writers meant for that event.

For example:
Edea-Ultimecia is a sorceress who lives many generations ahead of our time.

But the writers probably meant for her to live on the past and they decided to create the event in which Edea tells that(lying).

[Christmas]

Which means the tutorial is context sensitive and Square is saying "People found this through research but this other thing is still mysterious".
Otherwise they would just shut up.

It is when they decided to save the details to the Ultimania or there aren't any point of going into details.




I mean,citizens outside of the prison.

The wardens and millitary personnels can tell their friends and the news were start spreading. Also, the citizens of Galbadia dun care.



Laguna don´t really dies and Squall recovered because Ellone send him to Laguna(when a person get hurt or healed on the dream world the damage or healing affects the sent person also).

But the whole world thought they are dead like you said just like Julia.



My definition of lye on the game:

To say something about an event that contradict what the writers meant for that event.

For example:
Edea-Ultimecia is a sorceress who lives many generations ahead of our time.

But the writers probably meant for her to live on the past and they decided to create the event in which Edea tells that(lying).

Like I said Edea might be lying when she said she is possessed by Ultimecia, Squall might be lying when he said he wanted to save Rinoa but had something else in mind...etc if your case applies.

[Future Esthar]

But the whole world thought they are dead like you said just like Julia.

Hyne was smart enough to hyde Julia from civ.


Like I said Edea might be lying when she said she is possessed by Ultimecia, Squall might be lying when he said he wanted to save Rinoa but had something else in mind...etc if your case applies.


It´s up to the player who is lying to whom.The decisions must be based on game events or graphical details.

By the way,give me an example where the Ultimania contradicts my theories.

[Christmas]

Hyne was smart enough to hyde Julia from civ.

Why can't it be smart enough to hide Squall and Laguna too.



It´s up to the player who is lying to whom.The decisions must be based on game events or graphical details.

The decision is that you are lying if you base it on that.


By the way,give me an example where the Ultimania contradicts my theories.

The Ultimania stated that black magic cause deformity within sorceress which result in Edea's claw-like hand while you said she is so because she is a propagator.

[Future Esthar]

Hyne can´t possess Squall and Laguna because Ellone´s power got them alive.

[Christmas]

Hyne can´t possess Squall and Laguna because Ellone´s power got them alive.

Hyne is the almighty and Ellone is just peanuts like you mentioned.

[Discord]

Just two questions.

1.) Is Ultimania an official addition to the game and has it been licenced by SquareEnix?
2.) Who or what is Hyne?

Thank you.

[Future Esthar]

1)Don´t know.Ask other members.

2)It´s the name I gave to the evil character behind FF8 (X).
It is based on the Legend of the great Hyne(see on the game).

The interpretation I give to the legend goes like this:

Ellone had sent Vascaroons counsciousness to many different times.
One day she accidentaly sent him further on the future into the body of a person.
This person was talking to another person and called his name.
Ancient Centra persons speak with a different accent than present people.
So Vascaroon spelled the name of the person he saw on the future as "Hyne".
They (Vascaroon and the "White Seed") realized that it was the person who possesses Ultimecia.Vascaroon watched over Ulti´s castle and used to paint what he sees on the different eras(on a symbolical way).
After that,Ulti was not possessed anymore(she was but pretends not).
At this time the Zebalga tribe wanted to work with Ulti to take over the world.
But they found that Ulti becamed good and get angry.
Vascaroon told them everything and they seek for "Hyne" over the entire world.
However Ellone´s powers weren´t clearly understood yet so they don´t knew they were seeing other times and Hyne lives on the future.
They never found Hyne.
But the citizens of the future were also enabled to see the past which made Hyne angry.
He then created WOTC.

[Discord]

1)Don´t know.Ask other members.

2)It´s the name I gave to the evil character behind FF8 (X).
It is based on the Legend of the great Hyne(see on the game).

The interpretation I give to the legend goes like this:

Ellone had sent Vascaroons counsciousness to many different times.
One day she accidentaly sent him further on the future into the body of a person.
This person was talking to another person and called his name.
Ancient Centra persons speak with a different accent than present people.
So Vascaroon spelled the name of the person he saw on the future as "Hyne".
They (Vascaroon and the "White Seed") realized that it was the person who possesses Ultimecia.Vascaroon watched over Ulti´s castle and used to paint what he sees on the different eras(on a symbolical way).
After that,Ulti was not possessed anymore(she was but pretends not).
At this time the Zebalga tribe wanted to work with Ulti to take over the world.
But they found that Ulti becamed good and get angry.
Vascaroon told them everything and they seek for "Hyne" over the entire world.
However Ellone´s powers weren´t clearly understood yet so they don´t knew they were seeing other times and Hyne lives on the future.
They never found Hyne.
But the citizens of the future were also enabled to see the past which made Hyne angry.
He then created WOTC.

Oh, alright, so it's not like I actually missed some important character of the game that actually existed. What's WOTC though?

[Neco Arc]

refresh my memory... where exactly does it mention Vascaroon and Zebalga? I don't remember seeing those names...

[Discord]

refresh my memory... where exactly does it mention Vascaroon and Zebalga? I don't remember seeing those names...

I know it! FE, you have a pirate version of FF8. It was badly cracked and thus it brought you to all those weird theries!

[Sir Bahamut]

Just two questions.

1.) Is Ultimania an official addition to the game and has it been licenced by SquareEnix?
2.) Who or what is Hyne?

Thank you.

1. Yes.

2. Hyne was supposedly the creator of mankind in FF8, and the first sorceress. This is a legend, mind you, but most people see it as being more or less true.

The legend of Hyne can be read here:

http://www.geocities.com/aarinfantasy4/guideint3a.jpg

[Christmas]

All those are just lies made up by those people that couldn't see the truth. This is what Hyne is about.


I can see there is much linkage of FF8 and FF X after being "enlighten" by Future's Theories.

Hyne is the almighty god of FF 8 and the first sorceress.
Yu Yevon is the "god" of FF X and the leader of summoners.

People in FF 8 originated from the Centra civilization except for the Estharians. So that make two major civilizations in the game, Centra and Esthar but Centra was destroyed.

In FF X, Zanarkand and Bevelle was the two major civilizations and Zanarkand was destroyed.

In FF 8, Esthar speciallized in machine and technology while it is a mystery of what the Centra people specialized in.

In FF X, Bevelle specialized in machine and technology while Zanarkand their precious summoners.

Mysterious points known as "draw points" is seen popping out of the ground in FF 8 which is much believe is the point that lead to the spirit energies of the farplane in FF X.

A deep sea research center is built in the middle of nowhere to dig deep in the ground for research purposes. I believe they are digging for the passageway to the farplane.

So I assume Zanarkand is actually Centra!!! After Yuna save the world the second time, people begin inhabited and rebuild Zanarkand.
And Bevelle move on with its technology until the Lunar cry which wipe out the Centra. Also, Besaid island might just be Balamb.

We were told that Yu Yevon is an immortal and won't kick the bucket that easily so I assume Yu Yevon live on for centuries bidding his time. As time goes by, people will forget about Yu Yevon so he resurfaced as Hyne. Yu Yevon also know as Hyne pass his power to other sorceress and those that receive his powers is under his mercy.

Sorceress that receive his powers is condemned by those around her and in anger, sorceress unleash their wrath upon humans. When sorceress is upon the blink of death, they pass their powers to other sorceress and continued their terror.

See the link? This is like Spira's "Spiral of Death" and the sorceress is just other Sin used by Yevon/Hyne.

After getting to heard of Ellone/Rinoa, Yevon came up with a even evilier plot than the old school "Spiral of Death" which is time compression. So he picked on a suitable candidate which hold his powers to do the job which happen to be Edea\Uli\Julia. That explain why Uti\Edea\Julia can only possess sorceress.

So, "X" = Hyne/Yevon.

[Future Esthar]

What's WOTC though?


Well organized time compression.