Why hate on Spirits Within?

[Ishin Ookami]

Personally I cant understand it. When I saw the film in theatre's it took my breath away. It was a masterfully edited, expertly directed, perfectly written cinematic film that actually gave you some food for thought.

A friend of mine makes a point by saying it wasn't a very "commercially entertaining" film such as mummy returns which was released at the same time. I'll agree to that statement, but also in the same regard cinematic classics like "A Christmas Carol", "King Kong" and "War of The worlds" weren't very "commercially entertaining" either. King Kong was something of a social commentary, the big ape was drugged, captured, taken from his island and turned into a circus exhibit until he escaped and was killed. The whole point of the film was clear, even to a five year old child as I was when I first saw the film. We initially saw King Kong as a monster, akin to godzilla. Yet the film shows humanity as being the true monsters, exploiting kong, then killing him. War of the Worlds took the sci-fi (aliens invade earth) genre that was theatrically popular at the time and injected it with some spirituality and Religious overtones. And while spirits within is a far cry from attempting to make social commentary on the same level as these two cinematic greats (the War of the worlds novel was originally launched as HG wells's critique against britain's savage colonization efforts at the time) It still manages to pull the heart strings and stir the thoughts from time to time. The opening fight in the church, showed that in this future world there was nothing sacred, with the statue of the virgin mary being shot to pieces just to gun down a few phantoms. This picture continued with Aki's recounting of a 7 year old girl, embracing death rather then hope. The characters were all well done and realized, nothing super fancy but I didn't feel as though I was watching a collection of pixels like I did with Advent Children.

also one of the reason's I suspect the majority didn't like this film was that most of them were turned on too final fantasy with Nomura's direction, and Spirits Within was Sakaguchi's baby. Sakaguchi imagines Final Fantasy mainly by fantasy, with Sci fi elements thrown in and deep subject matter such as the meaning of life, hope, tragedy, and moral character. Nomura on the other hand likes to infuse final fantasy with a vibe I find more parallels a anime version of Charlies Angels. Advent Children being proof of his style over substance attitude, whereas sakaguchi prefers substance over style.

In the end, Spirits within is a damn well made film that managed to pull on my heart strings and actually made me feel something for the characters. I found Sakaguchi's direction to run parallel to Hayo miyazaki in the ecological themes and the nature of his Apocalyptic plot twists. Even in the most light hearted of miyazaki's films, there is always a plot twist or two which takes a previously established happy and upbeat theme, and utterly destroys it with death, blood, and despair. Its an effective technique which when used Sparingly, establishes intense drama and tension, and I found sakaguchi used the technique admirably in Sprits Within. I don't give a crap that none of the game characters came in, or we didn't have any summons (though the Zeus cannon made quite the dramatic CGI scene I found), Instead we had complex themes, torn characters dealing with real life issues, and underlying themes of tragedy, hope, and love. This alone dwarfs the redundant girl on girl fight scene at the end Of Advent Children any day I find, and I personally really cant understand why there is so much hate towards this film.

[Winter Nights]

I feel your pain. I just watched TSW last weekend. I was actually shocked to realize that the animation was smoother and more fluid in TSW than in Advent Children. It was also alot more realistic in it's animation.

And I'm not even going to touch the fact that 90 minutes of fight scenes wrapped around a paper thin ripoff of it's prequel is "teh bes movy EVAR!!!!11", while a complicated and well-packaged story of spirituality "totaly sucks iz so gey!!11one!1". *sighs*

[Miriel]

It bugged me that Aki's hair was always swaying. This way and that, always drifting to and fro. It bugged.

Also, I would argue heavily against your comment about the lack of commericial entertainment in the original King Kong. When it was first released, it blew audiences outta the water, and for movie-goers of that time, it was spectacle unlike anything they had seen before. To compare TSW to one of the greatest movies of the 20th century is absurd.

The Spirits Within was alright. Certainly didn't live up to expectations, but it didn't blow hardcore like so many people complain that it did.

[Winter Nights]

I really wonder what expectations people had of the film. The plot of the movie was revealed really early in production.. All prelease trailers and behind-the-scenes videos showed exactly what type of movie it was. it was never a big secret that TSW was going to be a sci-fi flick dealing with aliens. And yet FF fans were shocked when they saw it, as if they felt they'd been cheated and lied to. All they had to do was watch a trailer and they'd have known what to expect.

[Miriel]

Yeah, but I think people were looking forward to a really great Sci-fi flick dealing with aliens.

I can't remember how high my expectations for this movie were. But I do vividly remember that I was sitting next to my best friend as she made out with her new boyfriend throughout the entire movie.

[Winter Nights]

I dunno.. It was certainly alot deeper than your average sci-fi flick dealing with aliens. I think most people weren't expecting a movie dealing spirituality and faith. Which was always odd to me, considering how close that plot was to elements of the "golden child" game, FF7. Sakaguchi just took those elements and infused them with some reality, to express his own faith more deeply. The aliens were really just a plot device.

That was the only thing that took me by surprise about the movie. I left the theater feeling that my expectations were fulfilled. Was it as action packed as I though it would be? No, but the story didn't require it to be.

[Ishin Ookami]

Like I said, people were expecting nomura's action packed formula, while sakaguchi likes to be complex and tricky with his plots. initially the film was about combating the aliens, but towards the end it became something more, a character study in obsession, faith, courage, hope, and life. Look at all of the games nomura has directed, and they all end with some sort of beautiful and ambiguous CGI scene that looks good but doesn't mean a helluvalot. While Sakaguchi prefers more mellow, poetic, and emotionally driven moments. I think that is part of the reason people felt so betrayed.

And also, I think the media need to be a bit more responsible in their approach to this movie. Video game magazines raved about the film before, and during the release. After the film bombed just about every publication suddenly did an about face and started making jokes about the film bombing. OPM reviewed the DVD very highly, yet 1up, which archives articles from Ziff Davis publications has none of the articles or press related to spirits within, which considering all the good press they were generating about the film before and during, Is very puzzling.


Also, I would argue heavily against your comment about the lack of commericial entertainment in the original King Kong. When it was first released, it blew audiences outta the water, and for movie-goers of that time, it was spectacle unlike anything they had seen before. To compare TSW to one of the greatest movies of the 20th century is absurd.

Kong was very high tech for its time, without a doubt. But the story itself was a powerful one that was more thought provoking then sensationalistic as was the 1953 version of War of the Worlds, and Spirits within. also the reason I mentioned those two films was that both have recently gotten high tech makeovers from hollywoods top talents, but both jackson and spielberg forgot to include the weighty subject matter that made both films classics in very much the same way square jettisoned anything resembling a coherent plot for Advent Children

[Winter Nights]

I should note that the earliest article for FFVII for PS1 in the OPM archive is a review dated 05/09/2004. I don't think 1up is actually archiving their entire line.

[Ishin Ookami]

I should note that the earliest article for FFVII for PS1 in the OPM archive is a review dated 05/09/2004. I don't think 1up is actually archiving their entire line.

Really, Ive come across SNES reviews on 1up.com and was under the impression that the website was a work in progress considering the history of all their publications.

[Winter Nights]

Well, my point is that while they do have reviews and such for older games.. They seem to be new articles, not copies from backlogged issues.

[?????]

The themes of the movie were actually quite similar to FFVII, what with the Lifestream and it getting taken over and all. I'd hardly say that Nomura lacks depth, either. Sakaguchi is a bit more subtle, but to accuse Nomura of preferring style over substance nearly amounts to slander. He simply chooses to incorporate more aesthetic elements.

Though honestly, The Spirits Within isn't nearly as bad as most people complain it is. It's actually a decent film. It isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, though I don't know what people were expecting it to be.

[RaidenWeb17]

They're phantoms, not aliens. Extremely different. Sorry, I just had to point that out.

[ffxfreak93]

those phantoms are cool because if they touch you your dead!!!!

[Winter Nights]

They're phantoms, not aliens. Extremely different. Sorry, I just had to point that out.
Actually, they are both. They are ghosts of dead aliens from a planet that was destroyed during a war.

[Vyk]

I think it honestly wasn't all that Final Fantasy. Great movie. Great plot. But it should have been called something else. I'm probably going to help further your argument that people were expecting a more Nomura approach. But Sakaguchi wasn't all about subtlety. The mechanics in the game, as mentioned, were similar to 7's mythology. But the plot reminded me more of FF8. Very political. Most FF games are about a struggle against a corrupt force. There's a bad guy. And either he's in a seat of power, or he HAS power(s). And there's those fighting against him. In TSW the struggle itself was more in the background, and in their minds and the system than anything you could really see. Yes there were fights against phantoms. But the closest thing to a bad guy was the general. And there was no real rebellion against him or anything. None of this really means its bad. It just wasn't Final Fantasy. And when people say the fans felt cheated. Those are Final Fantasy fans, expecting a Final Fantasy movie. Final Fantasy doesn't have to be action-packed. But they are adventures at least. This movie wasn't adventurous. It was a thriller. The Parasite Eve fans and those that enjoy all of Square as a whole, or games as a whole probably enjoyed the movie in one way or another. I did. But I still say it wasn't very Final Fantasy. So it's more false advertising than cheating us of a good movie. 'Cause it was good. I just couldn't compare it to any of Sakaguchi's Final Fantasys any better than one could compare it to a Nomura Final Fantasy

[Winter Nights]

I think it honestly wasn't all that Final Fantasy. Great movie. Great plot. But it should have been called something else. I'm probably going to help further your argument that people were expecting a more Nomura approach. But Sakaguchi wasn't all about subtlety. The mechanics in the game, as mentioned, were similar to 7's mythology. But the plot reminded me more of FF8. Very political. Most FF games are about a struggle against a corrupt force. There's a bad guy. And either he's in a seat of power, or he HAS power(s). And there's those fighting against him. In TSW the struggle itself was more in the background, and in their minds and the system than anything you could really see. Yes there were fights against phantoms. But the closest thing to a bad guy was the general. And there was no real rebellion against him or anything. None of this really means its bad. It just wasn't Final Fantasy. And when people say the fans felt cheated. Those are Final Fantasy fans, expecting a Final Fantasy movie. Final Fantasy doesn't have to be action-packed. But they are adventures at least. This movie wasn't adventurous. It was a thriller. The Parasite Eve fans and those that enjoy all of Square as a whole, or games as a whole probably enjoyed the movie in one way or another. I did. But I still say it wasn't very Final Fantasy. So it's more false advertising than cheating us of a good movie. 'Cause it was good. I just couldn't compare it to any of Sakaguchi's Final Fantasys any better than one could compare it to a Nomura Final Fantasy
Aside from the fact that Square had leaked all sorts of info about the movie to give proper expectations that you'd think fans would have ate up, I agree with you here. However, there are people that outright loathe the movie. Their reasoning? It's not a Final Fanatsy movie. They refuse to give the movie a chance and hate it for no other reason than it's TITLE. That's just outright stupid.

[Odaisé Gaelach]

It was labelled as a Final Fantasy and it shouldn't have been. Sure it was a pretty good movie and everything, just not a Final Fantasy movie.

[Winter Nights]

I'm thinking the movie needs a re-release on DVD, but changing the title to simply "The Spirits Within" and making sure that no mention of the games is made at all. General public would probably eat it up, thinking it was something fresh and new.

[?????]

Maybe they would have liked it if there'd been genetically engineered chocobos to ride around, and summons that they called on against the aliens. I mean, hell, Bahamut ZERO or SIN could probably get rid of the aliens from Independence Day; its blast is easily visible from orbit, and those aliens demonstrated nothing of that magnitude. Almost scares me thinking about the size of the craters that must've been left outside of Midgar from the battle with Diamond Weapon. But aside from Dr. Sid, there was barely anything to distinguish it as a Final Fantasy, honestly. But the movie really wasn't that bad.

[Anaisa]

I don't like the spirits within. The characters were extremely dull, as was the film.

[Neco Arc]

no :mog: ... 'nuff said...

[Ishin Ookami]

I think it honestly wasn't all that Final Fantasy. Great movie. Great plot. But it should have been called something else. I'm probably going to help further your argument that people were expecting a more Nomura approach. But Sakaguchi wasn't all about subtlety. The mechanics in the game, as mentioned, were similar to 7's mythology. But the plot reminded me more of FF8. Very political. Most FF games are about a struggle against a corrupt force. There's a bad guy. And either he's in a seat of power, or he HAS power(s). And there's those fighting against him. In TSW the struggle itself was more in the background, and in their minds and the system than anything you could really see. Yes there were fights against phantoms. But the closest thing to a bad guy was the general. And there was no real rebellion against him or anything. None of this really means its bad. It just wasn't Final Fantasy. And when people say the fans felt cheated. Those are Final Fantasy fans, expecting a Final Fantasy movie. Final Fantasy doesn't have to be action-packed. But they are adventures at least. This movie wasn't adventurous. It was a thriller. The Parasite Eve fans and those that enjoy all of Square as a whole, or games as a whole probably enjoyed the movie in one way or another. I did. But I still say it wasn't very Final Fantasy. So it's more false advertising than cheating us of a good movie. 'Cause it was good. I just couldn't compare it to any of Sakaguchi's Final Fantasys any better than one could compare it to a Nomura Final Fantasy

The thing that BAFFLES me bout Nomura, is that his side characters are always great. Ive seen enough shojo anime to cause permanent brain damage, and FFVIII just took every damn shojo cliche, created the gunblade, took a bond girl reject and made her the main villain, wrapped it all up in some very cool FMV and called it a Video game. Yet aside from how awful a product it was it also featured Laguana who is one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters of all time. I don't know how Nomura could direct the worlds most contrived love triangle, create what could very well be the most unlikeable bishonen and Bishonjo in all of history, along with the most bland side characters (there's only four of you and the orphanage scene is your idea of character development?), yet create as cool a character as Laguana. I just don't know. Similarly I'm sure everyone here is familiar with my rather low opinion of Advent Children, yet hey I do think the turks Rufus were phenomenally well done. There are times when I think the only reason Square didnt call AC Deus Ex Machina was that they didn't have enough for licensing fee's, yet despite how redundant and cookie cutter the film is, The turks and Rufus show up and save the film from complete mediocrity. And Vincent was also pretty cool.

So yah, Nomura can create likeable side characters. Its just that every main character he's ever created or directed just ends up so painfully derivative and bland its awful. I didnt find Clouds psychosis amusing the first time around in FFVII. Maybe its just me, but when you've come out of a disassociative state and admit that all the strength you thought you had was a psychological delusion, you shouldn't actually be stronger physically afterwards. so AC just bored me with him relapsing all over the damn place. Didn't like tifa the first time either, so it figures she gets her share of screen time. Maybe its best the turks, vincent, rufus, yuffie, and others didn't get onscreen very often, lest they suffer the same fate as awful scripting and direction. It seems like Nomura can summon some true inspiration, yuffie chewing tifa out over her inexplicable infatuation with cloud made me bust a gut (lets face it, it needed to be said), but it only occurs in short bursts where he's concerned

As for Final Fantasy, the first six games all followed different storytelling structures. Sure there was a final boss, but getting to him and the storytelling flow was always different. It wasn't until FFVII that Final Fantasy became formulaic with the whole cutscene/dungeon/boss/cutscene/dungeon/boss cycle. So I didn't really go in expecting a flow, i just wanted to see a movie that had a good story from the master of Final Fantasy, and I wasn't disappointed. I don't think I even blinked for the final twenty minutes as the plot twists just kept coming, and I loved how sakaguchi could speak volumes of whats going through a characters mind and their progression with just a few simple images and sounds. The scene where you hear metal on metal clicking, then see floating bullets and general heins head down with something in his hand pointed at his head was a powerful scene, and just as the chamber with the bullet loaded, he gets a message and goes from taking responsibility to totally succumbing to his obsession and becoming what he hated the most. If only Nomura had HALF that storytelling ability, Id have some respect for him.

[Ishin Ookami]

no :mog: ... 'nuff said...

I'd like argue that, but cant. but then again, neither did AC. When will the little guy get the recognition he deserves? :mad:

but, I do remember someone spotting a chocobo as a phantom.

*Wark* :choc:

your dead. :eek:

I know I'd be scared :eep:

[?????]

As for Final Fantasy, the first six games all followed different storytelling structures.

Um, no, they really didn't. The basic storytelling structure of Final Fantasy hasn't changed since II. They've had increasingly more complex iterations of it, but aside from that it's basically the same narrative style.


If only Nomura had HALF that storytelling ability, Id have some respect for him.

You become a guinea pig for a mad scientist for four years and see how stable and sane YOU are. It's not like it just came out of nowhere; the entire game developed upon and led up to Cloud's inner self finally awakening. He isn't any stronger physically afterwards, he's stronger emotionally. Amnesia and altered memories are not original ideas in RPGs, but full-blown psychosis and delusions were certainly a first. Hell, they didn't even do amnesia that often before VII. They had it in the first five minutes of VI, and then it ended. Probably the only RPG character who's had his head screwed with more than Cloud is Revan, and only because of the sheer scale involved; it isn't every day you find out you were a power-crazed, murdering Sith Lord.

[Ishin Ookami]

Um, no, they really didn't. The basic storytelling structure of Final Fantasy hasn't changed since II. They've had increasingly more complex iterations of it, but aside from that it's basically the same narrative style.

I : Light warriors, time quest, four elemental beasts.
II : Orphans, empire, story worth a damn
III : orphans empire, job system and crystals.
IV : Crystals, Darth Vader becoming good again style plot, best friend being manipulated because of his jealousy, Cecil's amnesia about his roots, rydia's angst and eventual maturing,
V : Crystals, expanded job structure, story got scaled back.
VI : large cast, well detailed, memorable villain, world goes to hell, reassembling the party

so yah, the job system and crystals repeated. But the story itself kept changing and didnt really repeat. save for III and V. The only thing most of these stories have in common are the evil empire, crystals, and apoccalyptic threats. though thats pretty much a part of makin an RPG.




You become a guinea pig for a mad scientist for four years and see how stable and sane YOU are. It's not like it just came out of nowhere; the entire game developed upon and led up to Cloud's inner self finally awakening. He isn't any stronger physically afterwards, he's stronger emotionally. Amnesia and altered memories are not original ideas in RPGs, but full-blown psychosis and delusions were certainly a first. Hell, they didn't even do amnesia that often before VII. They had it in the first five minutes of VI, and then it ended. Probably the only RPG character who's had his head screwed with more than Cloud is Revan, and only because of the sheer scale involved; it isn't every day you find out you were a power-crazed, murdering Sith Lord.

Havnt played Xenogears have you? not only amnsia, but schizo and the alternate persona is the dominant one, has the powers of a demigod and wants to kill everything and everyone in existance. fei's issues make cloud look like a guest star on sesame street. Lets not even talk bout the 32-bit gen, Cecil from FFIV killed people willingly, and only followed through with his doubts when he had to slit the throat of a child crying over the dead body of her mother who cecil killed (he knew he was carrying a bomb BTW). His best friend and mentor betrays him in an attempt to win over Rosa, whom he's always loved and thought he should have since he was the stronger one. His brother is out to destroy the world, his father is a spirit who he only meets once in his little spiritual rebirth. Hell, Rydia herself had to fight by the side of the man who killed her family. Thats gotta do some things to the mind now shouldnt it?

Want something a bit more current? Laharl from disgaea is the overlord of the underworld who has prinny's (penguins housing human souls serving pennance for sins) as his slaves. The one prinny he worked the hardest, and was the cruelest too he eventually learned was the reincarnation of his mothers spirit, serving time for her suicide which she performed to save his life, incidently, he became such a heartless bastard after her suicide, since his father couldnt stop her from killing herself, and he loved her so much. He learns this when he see's the spirit of his mother, leave to be reincarnated after she's served her pennance, on the night of a red moon. and the script just says "he looked towards the red moon for hours, silently, never moving". Gee, I somehow dont think he was contemplating the next days schedule.

[Neco Arc]

I'd like argue that, but cant. but then again, neither did AC. When will the little guy get the recognition he deserves? :mad:

but, I do remember someone spotting a chocobo as a phantom.

*Wark* :choc:

your dead. :eek:

I know I'd be scared :eep:

there was a moogle doll in AC

[?????]

I : Light warriors, time quest, four elemental beasts.
II : Orphans, empire, story worth a damn
III : orphans empire, job system and crystals.
IV : Crystals, Darth Vader becoming good again style plot, best friend being manipulated because of his jealousy, Cecil's amnesia about his roots, rydia's angst and eventual maturing,
V : Crystals, expanded job structure, story got scaled back.
VI : large cast, well detailed, memorable villain, world goes to hell, reassembling the party

I'm talking about the narrative structure of the story. The crystal theme does repeat several times; basic exposition, foil a minor enemy scheme, meet new characters, chase villains and/or solutions, maybe somebody dies, expound on philosophical themes...it's basically the same for every game. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as the story's executed well. But by no means did FFVI set any standards for anything. In that sense, neither did VII; it simply proved they could be applied on a far larger scale than before. The scale was basically the standard; the story just happened to be exceptionally well-executed as well.


Havnt played Xenogears have you? not only amnsia, but schizo and the alternate persona is the dominant one, has the powers of a demigod and wants to kill everything and everyone in existance. fei's issues make cloud look like a guest star on sesame street.

Yes, I've played Xenogears. Keep in mind that it came out over a year after FFVII. Cloud's personality conflict almost caused the same level of destruction as Deus; the sole difference is that Id performed the dirty work himself, while Cloud's other personality merely aided Sephiroth. If he'd remained under the control of Sephiroth, nothing would have been left to stop him from absorbing the entire Lifestream. There are very few forces in any science fiction or fantasy universe that could hope to take him on in that state. Fei's issues don't make Cloud look like a guest star on Sesame Street; they're roughly comparable, with Fei perhaps having a slight edge in the f**ked-up department. Though I will remind you that Sesame Street introduced an HIV-positive muppet in 2002.


Lets not even talk bout the 32-bit gen, Cecil from FFIV killed people willingly, and only followed through with his doubts when he had to slit the throat of a child crying over the dead body of her mother who cecil killed (he knew he was carrying a bomb BTW). His best friend and mentor betrays him in an attempt to win over Rosa, whom he's always loved and thought he should have since he was the stronger one. His brother is out to destroy the world, his father is a spirit who he only meets once in his little spiritual rebirth. Hell, Rydia herself had to fight by the side of the man who killed her family. Thats gotta do some things to the mind now shouldnt it?

Yeah, it will, but being experimented on and tortured is infinitely more traumatic. Direct physical and psychological torture is ALWAYS more intense than mere emotional pain from losing loved ones or some such thing. About killing people, Cloud was a mercenary; killing people willingly was his job, so that argument's dead in the water.


Want something a bit more current? Laharl from disgaea is the overlord of the underworld who has prinny's (penguins housing human souls serving pennance for sins) as his slaves. The one prinny he worked the hardest, and was the cruelest too he eventually learned was the reincarnation of his mothers spirit, serving time for her suicide which she performed to save his life, incidently, he became such a heartless bastard after her suicide, since his father couldnt stop her from killing herself, and he loved her so much. He learns this when he see's the spirit of his mother, leave to be reincarnated after she's served her pennance, on the night of a red moon. and the script just says "he looked towards the red moon for hours, silently, never moving". Gee, I somehow dont think he was contemplating the next days schedule.

That would definitely hurt. I've had friends who've been through similar ordeals, minus all the reincarnation. But despite its pain, that's simple angst, nothing more. People like Cloud and Fei have actualy been physically and mentally altered by outside forces as part of grand schemes to subvert the entire planet, and eventually, the rest of the universe.

[SoulTaker*]

It cost Square 200 million to make Spirits, way to put all your eggs in one basket, I wonder if they thought that people were just gonna die over this movie like it was even close to the epics Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were, Square would still be Square Soft instead of Square Enix if it wasnt for this movie. And for what, the characters looked like dolls, their facial expressions were unrealistic, their body movements outside of the commando armor were stiff, and lack of tone and defromation in the skin and tissue when they went to grab something was weird also, and they expected an american audience to eat this up, it just made most people uneasy. The overreliance on special effects, and the cliche characters and storyline evil monsters appear; a way is found to stop evil monsters; catastrophic disaster occurs; heroes acquire an airship; heroes try to stop evil monsters by collecting a set of items; evil empire gets in the way. Compared to great Sci Fi movies like Alien, Aliens, Blade Runner, Independance day, and even its eastern counterparts like GITC,Akira, and Metropolis its easily forgettable. Square gets one fish slap to the face. :trout:

[Tifa's Real Lover(really]

saw it like a month or 2 ago, i sorta liked it

[Winter Nights]

It cost Square 200 million to make Spirits, way to put all your eggs in one basket, I wonder if they thought that people were just gonna die over this movie like it was even close to the epics Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were, Square would still be Square Soft instead of Square Enix if it wasnt for this movie. And for what, the characters looked like dolls, their facial expressions were unrealistic, their body movements outside of the commando armor were stiff, and lack of tone and defromation in the skin and tissue when they went to grab something was weird also, and they expected an american audience to eat this up, it just made most people uneasy. The overreliance on special effects, and the cliche characters and storyline evil monsters appear; a way is found to stop evil monsters; catastrophic disaster occurs; heroes acquire an airship; heroes try to stop evil monsters by collecting a set of items; evil empire gets in the way. Compared to great Sci Fi movies like Alien, Aliens, Blade Runner, Independance day, and even its eastern counterparts like GITC,Akira, and Metropolis its easily forgettable. Square gets one fish slap to the face. :trout:
What's funny is that most of what you accuse TSW of, can be accused of Advent Children. :p

[SoulTaker*]

Exactly, lets face it the entire world isnt ready for Spirit Within type movies yet, thats why Square marketed AC towards Final Fantasy fans, and guess what, instant mullah, it sold a boat load of copies in Japan in its first week, dont feel guilty for liking AC for its little lack of plot and for its action, just accept the fact that we dont all need to have a hidden message pummeled into us by a movie thats meant to entertain.

[Winter Nights]

Actually, the point of this thread is that we LIKE the fact that the movie had deeper meaning and would have preferred that Advent Children would have too.

[Anaisa]

I don't think the spirits within was deep at all, the characters were particularly simplistic. The characters were typical of your average american movie, and it was clearly made that way in an attempt to draw in a wider audience. If Square would of thought more about the movie appealing to final fantasy fans rather than trying to make it appeal to much wider audience,and americanizing the film as much as they did,I very much doubt the movie would have failed quite so badly.

[Winter Nights]

I don't think the spirits within was deep at all, the characters were particularly simplistic. The characters were typical of your average american movie, and it was clearly made that way in an attempt to draw in a wider audience. If Square would of thought more about the movie appealing to final fantasy fans rather than trying to make it appeal to much wider audience,and americanizing the film as much as they did,I very much doubt the movie would have failed quite so badly.
By that thinking, they need to release Advent Children theatrically, as the FF fan base would make so much more money for Square than TSW did. :rolleyes2

Most FF fans DID go see TSW. They may not have liked it, but they paid money to see it. It was nonfans that stayed away, mostly due to the fact that video game movies generally suck. And with no big names, which is a must for the average film to succeed in the US, there was no possible way for the film to make big bank. It was a huge risk and though I really liked the film, I never understood why they put that much money into it.

I liked the movie. Yes, the characters and a few themes are a tad generic. But, there was still some emotion to the film. And I definately like it better that Advent Children.

[Anaisa]

By that thinking, they need to release Advent Children theatrically, as the FF fan base would make so much more money for Square than TSW did. :rolleyes2
It all depends on how much money they spend on producing it etc and how much they get back, as you said, they put far too much money into the spirits within. My suggestion that Square should have thought more about it appealing to the final fantasy fan base on a financial level is based on what they should have been considering with the budget. They shouldn't have banked on non fans of final fantasy going to see it.

[Ishin Ookami]

Personally, I think its immaterial why it didnt make the money it should have. Im speaking of the quality, or in some peoples opinions the lack of it. Initially I did not like General hein as even his design makes him look like a second cousin to snidely whiplash. But after a few more viewings I thought he was a decent character that definitely followed the road to hell one good intention at a time.

And as for another AC/SW comparison, I complain alot about Nomura ripping off wuxia, john woo films, and anime in making AC, I'd just like to clarify that its not the ripping off parts I dislike, its the hideous direction he applied to it. Sakaguchi imitated miyazaki's style of establishing a happy vibe then creating a plot twist that sends all those happy vibes straight to hell, but he did it with a competent and steady hand.

And did anyone else notice that ving rhames and alec baldwins character's had the same names, or how alecs character flinched when ving mentioned his father's body was somewhere amidst the wreckage of that failed mission? Sakaguchi just loves to subtly hint at family relations amongst his characters doesnt he?

[Winter Nights]

It all depends on how much money they spend on producing it etc and how much they get back, as you said, they put far too much money into the spirits within. My suggestion that Square should have thought more about it appealing to the final fantasy fan base on a financial level is based on what they should have been considering with the budget. They shouldn't have banked on non fans of final fantasy going to see it.
True enough. I can back you there.

What's funny was that Square designed all this new technology to pretty much be the adult Pixar. Lots of original titles, using state-of-the-art CGI. The character models would serve as actors, playing multiple roles in different movies. Problem is, they blew their load the first outing AND claimed that it was based on a video game, with no sure guarantee that they'd succeed. Good movie, horrible marketing plan.


And did anyone else notice that ving rhames and alec baldwins character's had the same names, or how alecs character flinched when ving mentioned his father's body was somewhere amidst the wreckage of that failed mission? Sakaguchi just loves to subtly hint at family relations amongst his characters doesnt he?
Okay, now you're just making crap up. Either that or you know NOTHING of the movie you claim to love.

MAIN CAST OF FF: THE SPIRITS WITHIN
Ming-Na .... Dr. Aki Ross
Alec Baldwin .... Capt. Gray Edwards
Ving Rhames .... Sgt. Ryan Whitaker
Steve Buscemi .... Officer Neil Fleming
Peri Gilpin .... Officer Jane Proudfoot
Donald Sutherland .... Dr. Cid
James Woods .... General Hein

[Ishin Ookami]

Okay, now you're just making crap up. Either that or you know NOTHING of the movie you claim to love.

MAIN CAST OF FF: THE SPIRITS WITHIN
Ming-Na .... Dr. Aki Ross
Alec Baldwin .... Capt. Gray Edwards
Ving Rhames .... Sgt. Ryan Whitaker
Steve Buscemi .... Officer Neil Fleming
Peri Gilpin .... Officer Jane Proudfoot
Donald Sutherland .... Dr. Cid
James Woods .... General Hein

Now hold up, Im certain both their names were edwards and have seen multiple dramatis personelle that state they both had the same name, I dont have the listings right now, but I'll find them soon. but I do NOT make /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif up nor do I appreciate the accusation.

[Winter Nights]

Umm.. I own the Special Edition DVD and just watched it again 2 weeks ago. That cast list is right.

Further proof: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0173840/

EDIT: Also..
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1800018957/filmography

Also.. The scene where Ryan said, "My father's in there, somewhere." The camera was panned in right on him. I don't believe Gray was even in the shot, let alone flinching.

[SoulTaker*]

You OWN the special DVD edition :lol:, to save money next time, just tape it on the si fi channel, it comes on every so often at like 1 in the morning.
30 mil was spent on the marketing of Spirits Within btw.

[Winter Nights]

Umm.. I bought it when it came out 4 YEARS AGO. You can't buy the Special Edition anymore. They packaged Disk 1 by itself and are selling that now. I wouldn't buy THAT. Disk 2 is what made the package so great. They went all out with special features. Which was saying alot 4 years ago.

And why is it so surprising that I bought a DVD of a movie I really liked? What a dumb thing to laugh over. You gonna wait til Advent Children debuts on Sci-Fi and tape it? Somehow, I doubt it.

[Ishin Ookami]

You're gonna hate me for this.

about two years back, after I bought my PS2 (which was also my first DVD player) I soon after found the special edition of SW on sale at a second hand store... for $4.00 even. in perfect condition as well. Up until that point I simply owned the vhs version.

[SoulTaker*]

Take it easy, one mans trash is anothers holy grail, $4.00 is a whopper meal at burger king to me. And I will probably go out and buy AC when it comes to the U.S whenever that is.

[Ishin Ookami]

I already own it, I got hooked up with the edition that came with the last order OVA as well from my contacts in chinatown. Sadly I dont know anyone who will by by english dub-less copy so Im probably stuck with it.

[Anaisa]

Sadly I dont know anyone who will by by english dub-less copy so Im probably stuck with it.
Maybe bbomber will take it off your hands?

[Cruise Control]

Nope, got mine from amazon, it will be at my house tommorow.

[Anaisa]

Well that was speedy!

[Rogue]

i dont hate final fantasy spirits withn it a good movie i like it i got it on dvd and psp it would be better if it was like a more of a medivil type movie like ff10 or ff9

[SoulTaker*]

It would have been better if they had some form of magic, summon, sword, or even a freaking chocobo. Dead whale ghosts arent scary, I felt nothing for the characters, no deep love story, and I dont even like love stories. Their wasnt even a archvillian really, Final Fantasy is what it is because of the extravegant costume designs and character designs, evil clowns, silver haired demi gods, swirly eyed nomads, talking dogs, a kid that weres an overall/hoody/tank top with one pant leg longer than they other with compression shorts and fish twine outfit (yes Im talkin about Tidus), otherworldly worlds, and humans with incredible powers doing things we cant hope to ever do.

You didnt see Peter Jackson taking elves, hobbits, wizards and orcs outta Lord of the Rings and slapping it with the same title. Gigantic swords, gunblades, thundagas, Vivi, BAHAMUT all staples of the Final Fantasy series, and non are no where to be found. Can i get some Kung Fu fighting? One flip kick? Just one?

[Rogue]

lol i agree

[Vyk]

i dont hate final fantasy spirits withn it a good movie i like it i got it on dvd and psp it would be better if it was like a more of a medivil type movie like ff10 or ff9
You seem to be a fan of FF7. Not a very midieval game. Its not the setting that matters, its how you make use of it. But we seem to agree that it just wasn't very "Final Fantasy". I coulda went for more emotional conflict. A less subtle love interest. A more demanding evil presence. I don't think chocobos and moogles would have changed much though. And swords and magic really didn't have any place in the world they created for the movie. I think the problem is it was too... possible. It was a future earth that could very well happen. And people wanted something that was a lot less likely to happen in the future.

[Rogue]

You seem to be a fan of FF7. Not a very midieval game. Its not the setting that matters, its how you make use of it. But we seem to agree that it just wasn't very "Final Fantasy". I coulda went for more emotional conflict. A less subtle love interest. A more demanding evil presence. I don't think chocobos and moogles would have changed much though. And swords and magic really didn't have any place in the world they created for the movie. I think the problem is it was too... possible. It was a future earth that could very well happen. And people wanted something that was a lot less likely to happen in the future.
i like final fantasy 7 is my fav game i just drether see a midevil final fantasy

[Discord]

It cost Square 200 million to make Spirits, way to put all your eggs in one basket, I wonder if they thought that people were just gonna die over this movie like it was even close to the epics Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were, Square would still be Square Soft instead of Square Enix if it wasnt for this movie. And for what, the characters looked like dolls, their facial expressions were unrealistic, their body movements outside of the commando armor were stiff, and lack of tone and defromation in the skin and tissue when they went to grab something was weird also, and they expected an american audience to eat this up, it just made most people uneasy. The overreliance on special effects, and the cliche characters and storyline evil monsters appear; a way is found to stop evil monsters; catastrophic disaster occurs; heroes acquire an airship; heroes try to stop evil monsters by collecting a set of items; evil empire gets in the way. Compared to great Sci Fi movies like Alien, Aliens, Blade Runner, Independance day, and even its eastern counterparts like GITC,Akira, and Metropolis its easily forgettable. Square gets one fish slap to the face. :trout:

FF:SW was the first Final Fantasy I've actually came in contact with. That was when it was released in the cinemas. I though it was finely crafted, the sounds, the music and the video. The story was deep, as well as the characters, who developed through out the film.

Unlike the most popular Sci-Fi, i.e. Star Wars, etc, FF:SW is a stand-alone film. It doesn't come in series or trilogies and thus didn't have any image apart from FINAL FANTASY, when it came out. Most people however, do not know what FFs are about and thus the image of Star Wars, is a more popular one.

Last but not least, FF:SW is not meant to be an adventure film with good Jedi and evil Sith, where the good wins in the end and everyone is happy. The film can be clearly categorised as a tragedy. The Earth gets destroyed and the only survivors live restricted in the safe areas.

Apart from the catastrophe-film atmosphere, like that of The Day After Tomorrow, FF:SW kills most of its characters. The life of Aki starts balancing up in the 3rd/4 of the film, when she, Grey and Doc leave the planet. Tough the whole of New York gets killed, she survives and falls in love with Grey. If the film would end at this point, we'd have a happy end, however, as well all know, Grey heroically offers his life to save Aki in the very end of the film. The entirely happy end becomes impossible and Aki's life seams to be destroyed, however, the eagle in the end of the film once again reverses this idea. The life returns and a new beginning softens the tragical run of the whole story.

Personally, I think it's a masterpiece. Though the basis and the twists, like the General firing the Zeus Cannon, stay conventional, the dramatic themes become nicely developed and give enough fuel for further thinking. For those who are not much in the idea, the film still presents nice graphical and audio effects, however, it is clear that the morality remain the main theme of the film and thus a comparison with films like Alien, Star Wars and co. are not appropriate due to the difference in style and main points of the subjects.

[SoulTaker*]

Comparing Star Wars to Spirits within, is like comparing Apples to brussel sprouts. Star Wars is the ultimate tragedy, the boy who was prophecised as the destroyer of evil becomes evil itself and destroys his own family and friends, but then in the end chooses light over dark and saves the universe. A little bit of a happier ending than your average tragedy but it is basically the struggle between good and evil that wages in all of us, I mean we all new he turns evil but we didnt know that he did it for his girl.

At least episode 1 has the final battle with Darth Maul and pod racing, Spirits within has nothing in the form of entertainment, and it isnt even that smart either, its not like it made up for its lack of entertainment with incredible dialogue and an interesting plot and how the hell can ghosts travel on a giant chunk of planet and make it to earth and be pissed off enough to go around touching people, if your not gonna entertain me atleast make me think.

And
masterpiece is far from what I would call this movie. I think the general was the only sane one in the movie dispite being the most insane, I was thinking basically the same thing he was, destroy the planet and be down with it. I never did like the lifestream anyway, when I die I wanna be able to get away from the people I hated while I was alive not join with em.

[?????]

Unless you want to shrug off the onscreen destruction of Alderaan, you can't possibly ignore the fact that Star Wars has tragedy out the ass, and I'm not talking about Jar Jar. You can't even make the accusation that its ethics are black and white, in light of the prequels and especially the expanded universe. The ethics of Star Wars are even more convoluted and controversial than our own.

Alien ghosts can come to Earth the same way I can get across town; calling a taxi. The difference is that their taxi's a giant goddamn space rock and mine's a Ford Pinto with bullet holes in the trunk.

[Fatal Impurity]

i personally thought BOTH movies rocked! they both had good solid plots eventhough AC had a bit of a naff script (could be sorted for the english version though) i will admit TSW was a bit alienated from ff due to the lack of maniacal bad guy and cool fight scenes....but thats not really a bad thing...anyway i thought it was a great little romp and is a glad addition to the series anyday!

[Germ Hamee]

I thought it was a great movie, except for a few things... mainly being the amount of effort they put into americanizing it. That's what killed almost everything for me, were the predictable, cliche things that you see in every sci-fi movie... kill the virus before he dies! Phew, did it with one second left! OMG we're all going to die! Look! Soldiers falling in with big guns! I want nothing more but to save the world! OMG don't leave me!!

Yeah, and some of the dialogue was really tacky. "The question is... will I be in time to SAVE THE WORLD?! *big booming music!*"

But, yeah. Those things aside, it really was a great movie. You just have to get over the fact that they tried using the Final Fantasy name to make it a success.

[IpwnUthisMuch|------|]

It was a dissapointment to me, not because it was a crappy movie, but because it was not a final fantasy movie. If the more properly labeled it Sci-Fi Alien Fantoms: The Spirits within, then i never would have seen it. The people who saw it were big FF fans that wanted to see giant sword wielding pokey headed people riding chocobos and talking to moogles and the movie did not live up to that expectation. People should have determined fromt he trailer that it was not going to be what they expected but then again they are FF fans and if its called FF you know they are going to gobble it up.

[Super Secret Agent!]

The really big difference between AC with its lack of storyline and depth and SW with its storyline and depth is that AC is all round more entertaining.

[DMKA]

It didn't have Cloud and Sephiroth.

[Super Secret Agent!]

It didn't have Cloud and Sephiroth. X-actly!

[SoulTaker*]

A tea party featuring a tonberry and a moogle would have been more entertaining.

[Ishin Ookami]

The really big difference between AC with its lack of storyline and depth and SW with its storyline and depth is that AC is all round more entertaining.

depends on what your entertained by. Nomura may be able to imitate other directors and imitate certain elements of some cinematic genre's, but he lacks any real film making skill. Kadaj leaping over clouds bike would have been cool, if john woo hadnt been filming similar stunts, and with more style for fifteen years now. Only difference is Nomura advertises what kadaj is going to do with the camera behind kadaj's back as he walks straight towards the bike where john woo just focuses on making a cool scene that will surprise you. Kadaj leaping over the bike and the bike being stopped by Loz appears is meant to make you go "wasnt that cool" where john woo will pull off the same scene, with more style, than continue to hit you with more stunts and action so your jaw is pretty much on the floor the entire film.

And as for the story, I think FFVII's money shot is supposed to be clouds fight with sephiroth. Which just lacked. Cloud's line of "there is nothing that isnt important to me" is supposed to be dramatic, but for the drama to be real there would have to have been some kind of dramatic buildup to cloud being a man of all creatures great and small. There isnt any, the line is just sorta, there.

Both of these are just two examples of how shallow AC can be with its direction and writing, if your entertained by that, hey good for you. But personally I would like for my action scenes to not pat themselves on the back for how cool they are, and for my dramatic lines to have some sort of buildup and logic. AC fails to deliver anything of real entertainment value where Spirits Within had some very intense action scenes and moments of very good writing and drama, which is what I would call entertaining.

[SoulTaker*]

Good writing? No one still has explained to me how a chunk of planet that blew up billions of light years away could make its way to earth with the whole ecosystem of the planet still living on it as spirits. And tell John Woo he did a superb job on the incredible hulk too.

The really big difference between AC with its lack of storyline and depth and SW with its storyline and depth is that AC is all round more entertaining.
Very true although TSW masks itself as being full of depth when really it's has as much depth as a toaster. I bet those visual effects they used would be somewhat entertaining high.

[Ishin Ookami]

Good writing? No one still has explained to me how a chunk of planet that blew up billions of light years away could make its way to earth with the whole ecosystem of the planet still living on it as spirits.

There was nothing living on that meteorite. There was only spirits attached to it. Ghosts.


And tell John Woo he did a superb job on the incredible hulk too.

go do yourself a favor child, look up the director of hulk on amazon.



Very true although TSW masks itself as being full of depth when really it's has as much depth as a toaster.

A person who doesn't even bother too research his posts, and who think's that ghosts are alive should not critique anything or anybody on lack of depth.


I bet those visual effects they used would be somewhat entertaining high (<------ :confused: ) .

We can ascertain two things from that statement, that hooked on phonics was wasted on you, and that you've never seen spirits within.

[SoulTaker*]

There was nothing living on that meteorite. There was only spirits attached to it. Ghosts.
O, it was a meteorite you say, so a giant flaming ball of space debri has spirits liv...O wait you cant classify them as living as you said, I mean they do think, walk around and kill things but I wouldnt classify that as living either, we'll just say that they exist on this ball of fire traveling through space at mach 5, that so much easier to believe. Remember when theirs something strange in your neighborhood who ya gonna call, Ghostbusters! Proton packs work better than any 8 spirits.

go do yourself a favor child, look up the director of hulk on amazon.
Cant believe i got the guy who did face/off and brokeback mountain mixed up, I loved John Woo's "Gun foo" in face/off, but I believe Kurt Wimmer did it better with his gun kata.

A person who doesn't even bother too research his posts, and who think's that ghosts are alive should not critique anything or anybody on lack of depth.
They got 3 of the 4 necessary functions to classify them as living, they move in bipedal/quadruped way, think/interact, kill, all they need is the ability to eat, do they do that, if they do you got a real living lifeform right their.

We can ascertain two things from that statement, that hooked on phonics was wasted on you, and that you've never seen spirits within.
Your right, movie this bad probably couldnt be enjoyed high either, seeing all the pink and purple ghost or spirits if you will would probabbly just make you sick.Just think if it wasnt for Treasure Planet TSW would be the biggest flop in movie history, 120,000,000 dollars. Goodbye Square Pictures we hardly new ye.

[Fatal Impurity]

give the damn people a break! since WHEN has anyone ever really looked into all these minute details! if you look this far into any movie youll probaly find that they ALL have problems like this in fact most of them have worst problems!!! so stop tryng to find excuses to trample the dilm into the ground and ruin everybody elses fun!!!

[Cruise Control]

Kay, now that I'm done, I will attempt to jerk this thread back on track.

Arguement 1) It wasn't really an FF.
Response 1) WTF it said Final Fantasy on the box, can't you read.

Arguement 2) There were no FF charachters in it.
Response 2) Neither did FF: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Each FF has tatally different charchters. The only repeats I know of are Cid, Biggs, and Wedge. If you expect a cameo in a MOVIE, not a game, every game but FFX-2 must have been a sore dissapointment.

Arguement 3) Aki's hair was always swaying.
Response 3a) Aki is always in motion.

OR

Response 3b) Deal with it.

[SoulTaker*]

Dude, you did it wrong, I'll fix it...

Argument 1) It doesnt have any FF themes, every FF game has FF themes yeah their different characters but you can generally tell the difference between the feel of a Grandia game and a FF game.
Response 1) Uhhh, it wasnt meant to be Final Fantasy.(Then why the hell did it say Final Fantasy on the Title!)

Argument 2) It wasnt entertaining.
Response 2) Its just too deep for you (apparently it was also to deep for about a 3rd of the worlds population,note the loss of 120,000,000 and the bankruptcy of Square Pictures.)

Argument 3) So hard...TSW too boring..falling asleep...cant keep eyes ope...
Response 2)It was revolutionary! It had a deep meaning! It made me cry! Final Fantasy 7 is stupid! Wai...(Slams door in Otaku's face):D

[Ishin Ookami]

Kay, now that I'm done, I will attempt to jerk this thread back on track.

Arguement 1) It wasn't really an FF
Response 1) WTF it said Final Fantasy on the box can't you read.

Arguement 2) There were no FF charachters in it
Response 2) Neither did FF: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Each FF has tatally different charchters. The only repeats I know of are Cid, Biggs, and Wedge. If you expect a cameo in a MOVIE, not a game, every game but FFX-2 must have been a sore dissapointment.

Arguement 3) Aki's hair was always swaying.
Response 3a) Akkis always in motion.

OR

Response 3b) Deal with it.

You know, Sometimes I wish I wasn't being schooled to become a teacher, otherwise I could have put that that concisely. Very well done. :bow:


apparently it was also to deep for about a 3rd of the worlds population,note the loss of 120,000,000 and the bankruptcy of Square Pictures

Unless Ive missed the press conference in which you were named the duly appointed representative of the worlds nations and all divergent voices in them, I don't think its logical to speak for the entire world. Also SW was marketed towards the video game crowd primarily, so it would be more correct to say that the subject matter was not exactly in tune for the target audience or the vernacular they were familiar with. If you need it put simpler, ask bbomber. But quite frankly, the fact that Spirits Within was a little too deep for the average gamer just keeps getting proven with each and every single one of your posts. don't believe me?



O, it was a meteorite you say, so a giant flaming ball of space debri has spirits liv...O wait you cant classify them as living as you said, I mean they do think, walk around and kill things but I wouldnt classify that as living either, we'll just say that they exist on this ball of fire traveling through space at mach 5, that so much easier to believe. Remember when theirs something strange in your neighborhood who ya gonna call, Ghostbusters! Proton packs work better than any 8 spirits.

I find it amazing that you have problems with that part of SW, but don't mind that FFVII had alot of the same plot points, and Aeries who is deader than disco is showing up in every other scene in AC. :screwy:

[SoulTaker*]

I find it amazing that you have problems with that part of SW, but don't mind that FFVII had alot of the same plot points, and Aeries who is deader than disco is showing up in every other scene in AC.

No, unlike the plot of Spirits Within this was explained, Aeris was explained to be in the game the strongest character in the game spiritually maybe only second to Sephiroth because his mental projections could kill people, she was also explained to an ancient, who in their nature were supremely powerful spiritually, so I wouldnt doubt that she could test the boundries of death, sort of brings to mind Obi Wan Kenobi off star wars, how he cheats death but is only seen by Luke as is Aeris is only seen by Cloud, also Kenobi gives Luke aid periodically through the trilogy so much so its that you would never believed he died, as Aeris never physically touches Cloud but only mentally and spiritually touches him like in the seen when he's flyin up to meet bahamut she doesnt physically help him she mentally and spiritually helps him, again notice nobody else but Cloud can see her.


Unless Ive missed the press conference in which you were named the duly appointed representative of the worlds nations and all divergent voices in them, I don't think its logical to speak for the entire world. Also SW was marketed towards the video game crowd primarily, so it would be more correct to say that the subject matter was not exactly in tune for the target audience or the vernacular they were familiar with. If you need it put simpler, ask bbomber. But quite frankly, the fact that Spirits Within was a little too deep for the average gamer just keeps getting proven with each and every single one of your posts. don't believe me?

I let the money do the talking, 55 million world wide, remember it made 32 million in the U.S (Troy made 46 mil in its first weakend alone and was still considered a flop, but made 500 mil worldwide), so not popular world wide can clearly be taken from these statistics, also remember it cost Square 50 mil just to market this film not including the 120+mil it took to make, so you cant blame Americans for being shallow or whatever term Otaku use this days because we accounted for 40% of the films intake, or maybe we are shallow and are wowed by cheesy sci fi flicks, I guess its what your point fo view is. I dont know why you always belittle Final Fantasy 7 fans when they probably were the bulk of the revenue for that lame ass film, i dont think any average Joe movie goer saw this film and was influenced by it when their is so many better sci fi films than this.

[Winter Nights]

I just can't believe that people buy the whole "It didn't make much money, so it must suck" idea.

By that ideal "Tomb Raider", which came out the same year and was considered a success, must be cinematic brilliance. :rolleyes2

[edczxcvbnm]

I didn't like the movie. Probably the biggest fault was the animation of the characters. It looked ackward as did most of the facial expressions when paired with the voices. They really should have used motion capture for the movements of the characters.

[Winter Nights]

I didn't like the movie. Probably the biggest fault was the animation of the characters. It looked ackward as did most of the facial expressions when paired with the voices. They really should have used motion capture for the movements of the characters.
I'll agree with this to some degree. While, I thought the facial expressions were fine, the movements while fluid in some places were kinda stiff in others. Motion capture would have helped alot. Apparently they did use it for minor stunts, but everything else was done on the computer. The kiss was a little odd to me too. That could have used some work.

[edczxcvbnm]

I thought the facial expressions were odd for how a lot of the lines were delievered. This could be blamed on the voice actors though. I don't remember much about the movie as I only saw it once and I regret seeing it that one time :D

[Noj_R]

As a stand alone movie, it was ok...

As a hyped up OMG final fantasy movie, sucked hardcore _____ ( insert word ).

The movie had no music, creatures, or BIG ASS SWORDS ( every FF needs at least one ) from the FF series.

Square tagged on the name FF to make people come to see their first movie, thats why people hate it.

And I am one of those people :mad:

[Ishin Ookami]

I'll agree with this to some degree. While, I thought the facial expressions were fine, the movements while fluid in some places were kinda stiff in others. Motion capture would have helped alot. Apparently they did use it for minor stunts, but everything else was done on the computer. The kiss was a little odd to me too. That could have used some work.

I will agree with you there, but Im used to connecting the dots with animation. I still watch animated programming, like space fortress yamato and mobile suit gundam, that got started in the eighties, where the animation quality shifted wildly at times. Even anime series these days use different studio's, so the quality in animation from episode to episode can vary. The quality of the CGI in spirits within tended to vary in quality at times, but the shifts were never too dramatic. In comparison Im surprised I dont see Advent Children taking more knocks, because its CGI fluctuated WILDLY. certain fights such as the turks rumbling with the seph duo looked nice, while the Tifa/Loz fight was hideously bad with blur effects taking the place of actual animation most of the time. and at some moments where cloud and seph were duking it out, I swore I was looking at two marionettes instead of CGI animation.


The movie had no music, creatures, or BIG ASS SWORDS ( every FF needs at least one ) from the FF series.

Neither did any of the final fantasy's carry over any other elements from past games, save for IX (clouds sword showing up) or X-2.


No, unlike the plot of Spirits Within this was explained, Aeris was explained to be in the game the strongest character in the game spiritually maybe only second to Sephiroth because his mental projections could kill people, she was also explained to an ancient, who in their nature were supremely powerful spiritually, so I wouldnt doubt that she could test the boundries of death, sort of brings to mind Obi Wan Kenobi off star wars, how he cheats death but is only seen by Luke as is Aeris is only seen by Cloud, also Kenobi gives Luke aid periodically through the trilogy so much so its that you would never believed he died, as Aeris never physically touches Cloud but only mentally and spiritually touches him like in the seen when he's flyin up to meet bahamut she doesnt physically help him she mentally and spiritually helps him, again notice nobody else but Cloud can see her.

Smells like that post just got pulled fresh from a rectal colon. Aeries was only HALF an ancient, she was half human and that would have blunted any of her powers immensely. The only time she demonstrated ANY real powers was appearing to cloud in a dream just before she died. Holy was a summon spell from the white materia, not of any sort of innate abilities she possessed herself And she DOES physically touch cloud, as she threw him PHYSICALLY through the bahamut flare, and tends to sick children at the end. We also see her physically interact with the world around her, when the pool of healing water opens up in the church. So yah, Deus Ex Machina, Aeries be thy name.

As for nobody else seeing Aeries besides cloud, maybe the fact that he was inside the omega flare at the time had something to do with it. All they should have seen was a few remaining bits of ash leftover from cloud scatter around midgar afterwards.


I just can't believe that people buy the whole "It didn't make much money, so it must suck" idea.

By that ideal "Tomb Raider", which came out the same year and was considered a success, must be cinematic brilliance.

A better example would be that I still think Titanic is the highest grossing film ever in the western part of the world. Now I liked seeing kate winslet Nekkid and di-craprio die a horrible freezing death as much as your average red blooded male, and the ship sinking was very tense, dramatic, and well done. But the main bulk of the story was just crap. I consider myself a romantic at heart, but UGH the story itself just did not DESERVE to beat out good will hunting at the oscars. yet if we went by figures, its the best movie ever made, And akiria kurosawa is a nobody :screwy:

[SoulTaker*]

Smells like that post just got pulled fresh from a rectal colon. Aeries was only HALF an ancient, she was half human and that would have blunted any of her powers immensely. The only time she demonstrated ANY real powers was appearing to cloud in a dream just before she died. Holy was a summon spell from the white materia, not of any sort of innate abilities she possessed herself And she DOES physically touch cloud, as she threw him PHYSICALLY through the bahamut flare, and tends to sick children at the end. We also see her physically interact with the world around her, when the pool of healing water opens up in the church. So yah, Deus Ex Machina, Aeries be thy name.

As for nobody else seeing Aeries besides cloud, maybe the fact that he was inside the omega flare at the time had something to do with it. All they should have seen was a few remaining bits of ash leftover from cloud scatter around midgar afterwards.

I really dont know how to retort to arguments that arent based on anything but I'll give my best shot, so your sayin that Aeris being half ancient would limit her abilities? O im sorry do you personally know any half-blooded ancients or do you personally know the extent of the powers of a full blooded ancient, do you have any on hand to compare? I hate to bring up Star Wars and DBZ reference because I feel a bit nerdy but if I must use this type of logic for you to understand...DBZ Gohan a half saiyan and human, is his power stunted, no, about 3/4 of the way through DBZ he is considered the strongest being in the universe. Blade half vampire, amazingly even drake himself couldnt beat him, you can even say Luke Skywalker is only half jedi but he becomes the strongest in his line of work, I'll even reference Inuyasha. You see I feel retarded for even arguing about this. Aeris I heard if you use game shark her Great Gospel ability makes you virtually invincible at the end of the game in VII, also it is speculated that her limit break is used to cure the disease in the movie. So as to saying she has no power without any substantial truth doesnt work, she can even "speak" to the planet and even feels when its in pain and crying out, and I see no reason why a being this powerful spiritually cant break the barriers of death in a fantasy movie, especially if she has a deep emotional bond with the person she's helping.

As for the Tifa fight, BEAUTIFUL, it was done with the style and grace I would expect in an eastern action film, and it seems to be the most popular in the film even to my surprise as its got the most poll votes in the thread I made.

Neither did any of the final fantasy's carry over any other elements from past games, save for IX (clouds sword showing up) or X-2.

We are not talking about specific elements, were talking about the general "feel" of the movie. In every Final Fantasy I've played VII-X I feel like its apart of the universe just like a marvel comic feels like its in the marvel universe or a dc comics feels like a dc universe. Which brings me to the Tomb Raider topic, I personally never cared for Tomb Raider and i thought the film was not ver good at all, but it didnt mask itself which I respect, the game is about a ass kicking archeoligist with big breasts and nice ass put in extroardinary situations, and the movie was about ass kicking archeoligist with big breasts and nice ass put in extroardinary situations, and people who love Tomb Raider games loved that type of matter in games loved this movie. People went to the movies and got what they wanted a summer popcorn action flick, while the only thing TSW delivered on was the popcorn.

Titanic appealed to women of all ages and was suprisingly well done when I saw it on an action scale, you felt the dread of the characters stuck in the ship, and it is your classic love story of a pauper getting a princess, I dont like classic love stories very much so it was probably why I havent seen the film from beginning to end, i usually fast forward to the part when people start dyin.

I will admit that Steve Buscemi and James Woods were probably the only saving grace in the movie to make it not completely unwatchable it seems their the characters who try and make sense of the horrible plot.

Neil: How could they survive a trip across space on a chunk of rock?
Aki: They didn't.
Neil: Oh... this is all beginning to make a creepy sort of sense.:confused:
or...
General Hein: "I'll blast you all to hell!" Well said general.:D

[edczxcvbnm]

Ishin Ookami I did not say what you quoted. Take that back :mad2:

FFVII isn't take knocks for its 'inconsistancies' because it is all action based and due to how unrealistic it is that is why it is forgiven. The animation I talk about with this movie is basic stuff such as walking that looks awkward and out of place.

[Yew-Yevon]

one thing is for sure...the CGI in TSW is superb and it still remanse as such.

dreamworks and Pixar are in this stupid fight to see who can make the best CG acheavments... and they were both beat in 2001, and guess what...they still are and always will be. TSW used CGI that is normaly for motion picture effects that half to look real. The made their modles look so good that shrek and shrek2 look like crap, yet they give Dreamworks the "best graphical acheavment" award.

[Ishin Ookami]

I really dont know how to retort to arguments that arent based on anything but I'll give my best shot, so your sayin that Aeris being half ancient would limit her abilities? O im sorry do you personally know any half-blooded ancients or do you personally know the extent of the powers of a full blooded ancient, do you have any on hand to compare? I hate to bring up Star Wars and DBZ reference because I feel a bit nerdy but if I must use this type of logic for you to understand...DBZ Gohan a half saiyan and human, is his power stunted, no, about 3/4 of the way through DBZ he is considered the strongest being in the universe. Blade half vampire, amazingly even drake himself couldnt beat him, you can even say Luke Skywalker is only half jedi but he becomes the strongest in his line of work, I'll even reference Inuyasha. You see I feel retarded for even arguing about this. Aeris I heard if you use game shark her Great Gospel ability makes you virtually invincible at the end of the game in VII, also it is speculated that her limit break is used to cure the disease in the movie. So as to saying she has no power without any substantial truth doesnt work, she can even "speak" to the planet and even feels when its in pain and crying out, and I see no reason why a being this powerful spiritually cant break the barriers of death in a fantasy movie, especially if she has a deep emotional bond with the person she's helping.

Blade: probably the only applicable argument, I've never really liked the idea that him being half human, half vamp only rids him of the atypical vampiric weaknesses, but hey he was a comics character created in the early 70's or late 60's, so lets not split hairs.

Inu Yasha is a Hanyo (half demon) and is definitely weaker than your average demon. Sesshomaru has proven time and again to be the stronger brother due to his being a full demon, and even regular humans such as the schinintai (troop of seven) gave IY a bit of trouble. IY's needed help in his first major fight of the series (Yura of the hair) and for a long time after that he had his father's sword, which was the same as receiving the father's powers, to protect him until the sword was broken and he had to start to become strong on his own.

In DBZ its stated that mixing human and Saiyan DNA produces a VERY powerful hybrid, as is evident in Gohan, Goten, and Trunks. yet Gohans daughter pan is very weak in comparison due to the fact that she is only 1/4 saiyan.

As for Aeries, I'll say it again, she NEVER demonstrated ANY powers. NONE! And while having her die to save the world was in a sense a touch of Deus Ex Machina (in FFVI, its the peoples hope that helped them to survive and endure in the world of ruin, in FFVII, last ancient and her white materia saves the day) it was use sparingly. In Advent Children, Aeries is EVERYWHERE! Your example of Obi Wan is not a good one as even Obi Wan could only council, not resurrect, throw, heal, or otherwise physically interact.

The fact that Aeries is doing everything but my laundry in Advent Children is the films BIGGEST weakness, bigger than nomura's incompetent and redundant direction or the inconsistent CGI. If they had just resurrected her It would have been contrived, but keeping her dead yet having her resolve all the films major crisis points was far worse. Spritual visitation is one matter, curing global epidemics is another. Personally I think it would have been a bit more poignant if the geostigma had been allowed to run its course. It need not have been fatal, I wouldnt mind if they went the star trek route and simply had it kill of the jenova cells then restore the body with genetic material from the ancients. the fact that the planet let humans survive after the end of FFVII shows it cared for them, so having the geostigma be fatal just doesnt make a helluva lot of sense if its simply trying to kill off jenova cells. But then again, expecting AC to make sense from a storytelling point of view is asking way too much.

[SoulTaker*]

Uhhh, quick retort, Inuyasha had to fight demons with the jewel shards which greatly amplified their power, like the hair chick, without the jewel shard power Inuyasha usually dispatches demons with his iron reaper farely quickly so, yeah. The only exceptionally strong demon with out the jewel was his bro.

In DBZ its stated that mixing human and Saiyan DNA produces a VERY powerful hybrid, as is evident in Gohan, Goten, and Trunks. yet Gohans daughter pan is very weak in comparison due to the fact that she is only 1/4 saiyan.

I never heard this stated once, Vegeta usually says the exact opposite.

As for Aeries, I'll say it again, she NEVER demonstrated ANY powers. NONE! And while having her die to save the world was in a sense a touch of Deus Ex Machina (in FFVI, its the peoples hope that helped them to survive and endure in the world of ruin, in FFVII, last ancient and her white materia saves the day) it was use sparingly. In Advent Children, Aeries is EVERYWHERE! Your example of Obi Wan is not a good one as even Obi Wan could only council, not resurrect, throw, heal, or otherwise physically interact.
Being able to commune with the planet isnt a power? I think being able to feel exactly what the planet feels is a great power, and once she enters the lifestream it probably amplifies but that was never stated in the game so I wont use it because I like to use facts not theories.
The fact that Aeries is doing everything but my laundry in Advent Children is the films BIGGEST weakness, bigger than nomura's incompetent and redundant direction or the inconsistent CGI. If they had just resurrected her It would have been contrived, but keeping her dead yet having her resolve all the films major crisis points was far worse. Spritual visitation is one matter, curing global epidemics is another. Personally I think it would have been a bit more poignant if the geostigma had been allowed to run its course. It need not have been fatal, I wouldnt mind if they went the star trek route and simply had it kill of the jenova cells then restore the body with genetic material from the ancients. the fact that the planet let humans survive after the end of FFVII shows it cared for them, so having the geostigma be fatal just doesnt make a helluva lot of sense if its simply trying to kill off jenova cells. But then again, expecting AC to make sense from a storytelling point of view is asking way too much.
They probably wouldnt want geostigma to run its course because it would have caused the death of half the population in Midgar, you know the opening scene in the movie showed children dying, would you tell a person with cancer to just let it run its course, glad your not a doctor, Star Trek?:lol: Geostigma was overcompensating when trying to heal the body killing the person at the same time as the Jenova Cells, which was part of the reason Kadaj hated the planet and wanted to strike back at it.

Again you insult Nomura when he has probably accounted for 90% of squares profits over the past 8 years, Final fantasy would still be in the basement of the game world, not only Final fantasy but all RPG's are able to thrive in the main stream because of his insightful storytelling and impeccable use of style and vision, he appeals to the people not just a few fanboys and fangirls.

[Fatal Impurity]

As a stand alone movie, it was ok...

As a hyped up OMG final fantasy movie, sucked hardcore _____ ( insert word ).

The movie had no music, creatures, or BIG ASS SWORDS ( every FF needs at least one ) from the FF series.

Square tagged on the name FF to make people come to see their first movie, thats why people hate it.

And I am one of those people :mad:

so it didnt have badass swords so what? it was a tense atmosheric sci-fi thriller that brought the ff series into another direction instead of the same old tired (no offense) formula. which is basically: protagonist (which was a female for once) meets other dude they uncover evil plot they then go out on a guest and pick up a load of other people two people (usaully the two main characters) fall in love then they stop said evil plot....end of game...instead they changed this (granted not to a huge degree) and it was better because of it...

[Ishin Ookami]

Uhhh, quick retort, Inuyasha had to fight demons with the jewel shards which greatly amplified their power, like the hair chick, without the jewel shard power Inuyasha usually dispatches demons with his iron reaper farely quickly so, yeah. The only exceptionally strong demon with out the jewel was his bro.

like I said, the "Iron reaper" (its called the Tetsusaiga, its his father's sword carved from his father's own fang) endowed IY with powers from his fathers power to protect him. And IY needed kagome's backup to fight Yura. lets not even talk about the Schinintai, a group of soldiers who separately managed to give IY trouble, or the gaggle of Demons that have almost killed him time and again.


I never heard this stated once, Vegeta usually says the exact opposite.

Gohan Defeated Raditz when he was four years old, Raditz was a warrior who beat goku and piccolo, the two strongest fighters in the world at that time, without half trying. And immediately afterwards, we learn raditz was transmitting the fight to vegeta and Nappa. In the original Japanese Dialogue, Vegeta clued into that mixing human and saiyan DNA produces a powerful hybrid (how do you think Trunks, Goten, and Gohan all became SS as children while Vegeta and Goku couldnt do it until their mid twenties), Nappa initially wanted to take a group of human women to start creating a race of powerful warriors, loyal to the saiyans. Vegeta Nixed the idea Stating they'd only grow to kill the remaining true saiyans someday, it would be better just to obtain the dragon balls and wish for immortality.



Being able to commune with the planet isnt a power? I think being able to feel exactly what the planet feels is a great power, and once she enters the lifestream it probably amplifies but that was never stated in the game so I wont use it because I like to use facts not theories.

Great, she can make long distance calls with that power without paying a dime. Doesn't explain how she can cure global epidemics, resurrect a gimpy bishonen, throw cloud throw a fireball, and tend to sick children. and even if it did, I refer to it ad Deus Ex Machina for a reason. She's dead, yet she's not. Visitation, Sure why not. Happens all the time in anime. Resurrection, healing, throwing, fighting, ummm, doesnt all that just negate the fact that she's dead? If she's dead how come she's running epic errands? RIP Aeries, "nope cant. Nomura's directing me, and Kitase is writing me. "



They probably wouldn't want geostigma to run its course because it would have caused the death of half the population in Midgar, you know the opening scene in the movie showed children dying, would you tell a person with cancer to just let it run its course, glad your not a doctor, Star Trek?:lol: Geostigma was overcompensating when trying to heal the body killing the person at the same time as the Jenova Cells, which was part of the reason Kadaj hated the planet and wanted to strike back at it.

Right, I forgot how young you are. In star trek TNG, in the episode Transfigurations (this was back before the series was dominated by borg/vulcan cleavage in spandex BTW) the episode featured on an alien who was amnesiac, and ill. His body seemed to be being altered, he thought he was dangerous and dying and wanted to escape and be alone. This was compounded by the fact that his own alien government was hunting him, stating that very case. Seeing as how I doubt you'll ever watch an episode of Star Trek TNG, I don't mind spoiling it. by the end the "Illness" is nothing more than a evolutionary step that his people are destined to embark on.

And like I said, it would have been dramatically poignant to allow geostigma to run its course. Yes, LET the threat of death hang in the air. Let some real drama occur. Let there be suffering and death, and then a "transfiguration" as the episode I referenced put it. But then again, this involves some storytelling skill. something that is far beyond Nomura and kitase. Let me also ask you this, if the planet is letting humans live after unleashing holy (which kills off anything threatening the planet) and the life stream, which is the planets conciousness, why would geostigma be fatal, how much sense does that make?. What, did the planet miss that ONE item on its checklist that day. :rolleyes2


Again you insult Nomura when he has probably accounted for 90% of squares profits over the past 8 years, Final fantasy would still be in the basement of the game world, not only Final fantasy but all RPG's are able to thrive in the main stream because of his insightful storytelling and impeccable use of style and vision, he appeals to the people not just a few fanboys and fangirls.

Do you have any idea WHY the series is called final fantasy? Its because square was a nothing company back when the first one was released, and it was theorized that this would be the last game they would ever release. Six games later, and no sign of Nomura, they are a company that in Japan have gone from the verge of bankruptcy to toe to toe in terms of sales with RPG giant Enix, their titles gained International acceptance outside of japan while Enix decided not to release any of the 16-bit dragon quests due to the poor reception DQIV received. I'd call that successful boy. Ten years later, and with sakaguchi, Amano, Uematsu, Mitsuda, and a host of other developers having left the company, Square has now lost hold of all of its major franchises, and Final Fantasy has jumped the shark terms of sales. Things got so bad for square they had to merge with Enix while they were still making a halfway decent profit from their own games, and say "/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif IT" to the japanese market and base the sole success of their income on internation sales, while Enix is still playing the safe money, and still is the more successful of the two. Yes, SW did indeed do some damage to square, but it was allowing Nomura free reign and to go nuts that have more then HALVED their profits in japan from ten years ago, and has lead to the major franchises of the company along with key players leaving. Played a Chrono game lately? How bout Xenogears? Hey, Front Mission III rocked the PS1, FMIV must have... eh. Never mind. Rest in peace noble franchise. In fact its a great irony that Squares ONLY remaining profitable title, outside of FF is Kingdom hearts, which is a result of a partnership with another has been, disney. Last kingdom hearts owed its success too 3/4 nostalgia factor, and Im interested in seeing what happens with #2.

Let me give you a clear picture as too just how poorly square is performing. would you say 700,000 dvd's sold of Advent Children is a impressive number figure? The company sure wants you to think so. It would indeed be impressive if that only accounted for sales in japan, but we are also talking about preorders for the dubbed version, which are getting higher and higher due to the release date being constantly pushed back, as some stores are actually buying the hype that square will get this into American theatre's and it will help sales. Keep in mind that most DVD's are ordered months before the release date. Then there are international orders (square did release a subtitled copy in japan). there are are at least ten shops in chinatown and markham that are selling the original copy's of AC along with the Last Order OVA. so lets just say each of these shops order 100 copy's. 10 x 100 would be 1000 copies ordered. so then we have preorders, my contacts at the head offices of a major store of video games tell me that they already have Advent Children on order, whenever square decides to actually release the DVD. Some of the larger stores can order 300-500 (Larger stores back in the day ordered an average of 150-200 copies of SW DVD on the initial shipment BTW) of a hotly anticipated title, but this is AC so lets just keep the figure down to 100 shall we, there are more then 100 locations of this store in canada alone, but for the sake of keeping the math even, Im just going to average 100 stores ordering 100 copies, which would be 10, 000, for a total roughly 11,000 copies ordered so far in canada alone. Lets factor in competing chains such as Best Buy, Wall Mart, Blockbuster, HMV, Starstruck, each store ordering in roughly 100 copies, and to be modest lets pretend that there are only 100 locations in all ordering an additional 100 copies (which isnt really alot. larger stores can sell that in two days and smaller stores can unload that in a month if the title is anticipated). Consider we'd have a total of 21,000 copies ordered alone for the sparsely (in comparison to US, China, UK, And Japan) populated country of canada, and consider the WORLD WIDE amount of international orders happening right now as well as preorders from major and minor store chains and independent locations, and that number increases immensely. at least 100,000 copies. And keep in mind that AC has been out for nearly 5 months, these figures are from a single shipment worldwide while keeping my numbers low, and my contacts in chinatown and markham can resupply anywhere from once a month to once a week depending on sales. With this amount of accessibility and hype, 700,000, hell even 1,000,000 isn't even what you would call a minor success. Hardly worth boasting about on a international scale. Microsoft becoming a second place competitor and obtaining the number of exclusive licenses that it did, that is an achievement worth boasting about. PS2's being sold out on the initial preorder shipment BEFORE sony halved the shipment. THAT was impressive. the little Black and White Game boy becoming the most successful handheld of all time, and the most longest lasting system ever, THAT is impressive. 700,000 copies of a dvd ordered internationally in five months? Yawn. Square right now is living on hype, and smoke and mirrors. You call this successful? Dragon Quest VIII sold 4,000,000 copies in JAPAN alone. when AC can even approach 1/4 of that figure on its native soil, then it has bragging rights. Not before. But square is playing with numbers, figures, and marketing strategies to hype up this product.

Talk to me about knowing a franchise after you've played the 16-bit final Fantasy's. until you have, you have no right to throw around the term fanboy while you behave and speak as one yourself. FF WAS successful without Nomura, and Without FFVII. and While I can respect the international acceptance it has brought RPG's, I doubt I could have played the phenomenal Dragon Quest VIII earlier this year, or sampled any of Nippon Ichi's wonderful titles, without its success, FFVII still remains an inferior RPG, in comparison to Sakaguchi's FF and other titles by other companies. And AC still remains an inferior film to SW. You throw around the term fanboy to people who like sakaguchi, a fanboy is someone that doesnt try to experience other titles other then the ones that are cool. Your lack of experience with the older titles, and your closed minded disrespectful attitude paints you out to be immense fanboy, bordering on being called an Otaku (which, isnt a nice thing to be called).

And I felt this statement deserved to be dealt with.


he (Nomura) appeals to the people not just a few fanboys and fangirls.

He appeals (though I am loathe to use this term) the noob's in the western world who think asian cinema is all about poorly dubbed cheesy kung fu flicks and anime is all about cute little rodents and funky flying constipated dudes with blonde hair. He rips off writers and directors who are far more skilled than himself, than calls in squares top team of CGI animators to make it all look cool. And if you think Im wrong, go take a look at the majority of your posts on this topic.

[Ishin Ookami]

so it didnt have badass swords so what? it was a tense atmosheric sci-fi thriller that brought the ff series into another direction instead of the same old tired (no offense) formula. which is basically: protagonist (which was a female for once)

I agree with the majority of your post, but Sakaguchi is rather notorious for strong female protagonist's and/or co-stars. Rydia in FFIV was a strong presence throughout the game. Celes and Terra were two of the stronger characters in FFVI, Dagger got equal screentime and made a fitting co-star for Zidaine, and FFX arguably had yuna as the main character, since its really her story that has the most gametime. This is one of the reasons I prefer him over Nomura, who has no friggin clue whatsoever how to write or direct a strong and likeable female lead.

[Fatal Impurity]

i concur greatly

[SoulTaker*]

[/QUOTE]
like I said, the "Iron reaper" (its called the Tetsusaiga, its his father's sword carved from his father's own fang) endowed IY with powers from his fathers power to protect him. And IY needed kagome's backup to fight Yura. lets not even talk about the Schinintai, a group of soldiers who separately managed to give IY trouble, or the gaggle of Demons that have almost killed him time and again.
No, the Iron Reaper Soul Stealer is his physical attack, which he used in his first demon fight against a centipede demon, one hit kill, he had this about 50 years before he got his fathers sword. Like I said Yura had the jewel shards which amplify a demons power immensly, and the group of soldiers were the best warriors in the Japan, they did mercenary jobs before they were beheaded, they were stronger than most demons and they had jewel shards also, even his bro had trouble with them in a few fights, they even managed to wound him.

Gohan Defeated Raditz when he was four years old, Raditz was a warrior who beat goku and piccolo, the two strongest fighters in the world at that time, without half trying. And immediately afterwards, we learn raditz was transmitting the fight to vegeta and Nappa. In the original Japanese Dialogue, Vegeta clued into that mixing human and saiyan DNA produces a powerful hybrid (how do you think Trunks, Goten, and Gohan all became SS as children while Vegeta and Goku couldnt do it until their mid twenties), Nappa initially wanted to take a group of human women to start creating a race of powerful warriors, loyal to the saiyans. Vegeta Nixed the idea Stating they'd only grow to kill the remaining true saiyans someday, it would be better just to obtain the dragon balls and wish for immortality.

I'm not going to argue about this since you have probably seen the uncut version or the originals before they made it to the US, I doubt they would allow talk of rape on Cartoon Network, Ill give you this one.

Things got so bad for square they had to merge with Enix while they were still making a halfway decent profit from their own games
And the reason for THIS? I'll give you a hint, it bankrupted squaresoft and left them 123 mil in the hole. Nomura's churning out hit after hit, and then Square hits bottom with the release of the name which may not be spoken, then they release IX which is good game but nowhere near the splender of VII and VIII adn sells the least out the 3, and who is called to save the day? Nomura thats who, he dug Square out the basement.
I know the history and story behind Final Fantasy BTW, doesnt account for the fact it was still a basement RPG, then Nomura comes along and its mainstream america, I would say that Nomura's art style do seem to appeal to the teenage mindset, the teenager which is 90% of Squares market, much like that of Marvel when they were competing with DC. But technically Nomura is only the character designer, while Nojima has been responsible for every story mostly or completely since VII, so its really Nojima you should despise. But maybe you just dont know why you hate Nomura, i think your just those type of people that dislike anyhing anybody else likes.
Im tired of talking about Aeris, sorry if she couldnt have been named Terra 2, deus ex references are getting old, if anything your Star Trek reference is extremely dues ex since that show relies on improbable things saving the day, like your letting deadly diseases run their course which in real life kills people.
i didnt read your rant, i think it had something to do with AC not being successful or something.
An Otaku is someone who dresses like video game and anime characters and is used to describe an overly obsessed fan boy or fan girl, but you wouldnt know anything about that would you.

[raskerino]

It was fine. I did find the story weak- as the meaning there didn't feel deep, it felt uninteresting- the characters didn't develop, as in the emotions they felt didn't connect with me and I didn't see much change in the emotions I notice. To me it felt like a whole lot of nothing, I liked a lot of the animation but it never pulled off a feel I liked except in the outside expansive view scenes. There wasn't much music to enjoy and it felt pretty pointless. I also thought FFVIIAC was pretty pointless. I didn't like bringing Aeris back, I didn't like the added on story as I had really enjoyed FFVII openended ending. Neither had much to them in my view.

But what I came to this thread to say was:
Everything is stated as fact, this story is/isn't deep is pointless to say in an argument like this because we've got past the fact that one likes it and one doesn't. It's true that a lot of people hated it. It's true that Ooshin thinks it's an excellent movie. But it's not true to tell somone there wrong when it's opinion. I'm not going to give an example of this because I haven't checked everything written, but that's the feel of the thread.

I thought there was little meaning because the characters felt absolutely bland and there was never really conflict that worked for me. I think it would have been much better if it turned out that the opposition to the cannon was stupid, and did hinder stopping these ghosts because it would have cut away from the cliched feeling of whatever the good characters do is right. The feeling of the gaia also felt meaningless to me. It wasn't bad to watch but it never struck me as interesting. But I also thought there was just as little in AC.

[Gnostic Yevon]

At risk of being on topic, I think the difference at least for American movie goers is that Americans (in general) think of animated movies as kid stuff. The big CGI hits in the USA were things like Toy Story, Shrek, Bug's Life and Polar Express, all of which were aimed at younger children at most pre-teens. So it would be understandable that a CGI sci-fi flick wouldn't do so well. The people who saw the ads mentioning "Animated Movie" would be expecting something like a Pixar film, the FF fans expected chocobos, and I think it missed the audience that would have gotten the most from it -- the Sci-Fi audience.

The SW movie reminded me most of a B5 movie, which I like. There was a lot of intrigue and behind the scenes stuff going on, the characters were realistic, and the action was good, but it never devolved to a mere FX movie (like SWIII did). The thing is, it wasn't advertised as Sci-Fi. It was advertised as FF.

[Discord]

The thing about FF:SW is that the film is absolutely unique. You cannot compare it to StarWars since the style is so different. I mean, look at StarWars: Lasersabers, destroyers, everyone getting killed by the Evil. FF:SW is different though. You have an enemy which is not the Evil and thus you do not have the old good vs. evil. This adds much more depth to the film.

On the other hand, the film has an absolutely different philosophy. I mean, how many people offer themselves in StarWars to saved their girlfriend.

[Fatal Impurity]

i like films with shades of gray i just love seeing the conflict in the hearts of good people...am i sick?

[SinSpawnAmadeus]

Never thought much of The Spirits Within; it was rather dull. It’s sort of like if you took FFVII, removed everything that made it a decent game and replaced it with Alec Baldwin.

God, I hate Alec Baldwin.

[Fatal Impurity]

*shivers* the baldwin twins give me the creeps....and for your information TSW pwns!

[SinSpawnAmadeus]

No I'm afraid it really, really doesn't.

[Shadow The Red XIII Thing]

Ive seen the uncut episodes of dbz and I thought Nappa jus wanted to see if his bits and twigs still worked.
Pan was a dissapointment.
TSW was horrible to me.
I took my girlfriend at the time to see it and she was pissed for me making her sit through it cus it sucked.
I ahd never even heard of the movie until I looked in the paper that night.
I expected weird looking charachters to kick ass with giant swords and such.
And on top of the horrible date I had that night Iwas down 30 dollars after the night was over if some one would have correctly advertised it correctly as CRAP: THE SPIRITS WITHIN I would have been able to live a life without nightmares of having to watch the movie over and over again.

[~SapphireStar~]

I was let down due to the lack of FF characters. The animation was stunning, dont get me wrong, but thats the only thing I loved. Oh and Steve Buscemi doing a voice over, but thats it. I did waste hours of my life watching it IMO. AC meets my expectations though.