How long was each Calm ?

[Renmiri]

According to GAMEFAQ, the FFX and FFX2 Ultimania guides post only 5 "Calm" periods (below), with High Summoners appearing in intervals of 600 years thru 90 years. Now, here is my problem with it:
- We see that Yu Yevon takes only 9 years to rebuild Sin, as it was all it took for Sin to reappear after Braska defeated it.

- Does this means Sin is "alive" and loose around Spira for centuries ?
IMHO that is impossible. If Sin kills as we see it doing in FFX every single year during those large periods, the planet's population would be extinct after a while, say, 200 years

- Did Yu Yevon take much longer to rebuild Sin initially ? i.e. did he take, say, 500 years to create the second Sin ?
IMHO that is impossible. A threat that has not reappeared for a generation or two would not command such fear and devotion from people. Bevelle and Yevon's Church would lose a lot of it's prestige and influence after 100 - 150 years without Sin. The more "costly" tenets of the Church would be abandoned, i.e, Summoner training would be abandoned and so would be the machina prohibition

As proof I submit the Catholic Church. Sure we still have people who believe Jesus will come back, even after 2,000 years of wait, but the power of the Church to run our daily life has been gone for a long time. There are very few people who still refrain from eating meat on Fridays and even less people who abide by all the other tenets in the Bible.
There is no way people in Spira would still refrain from using machina after 200 years of no Sin!!!

So what gives ?


Approximately 1000 years ago
- Using the power of these fayth, Yevon summons Dream Zanarkand - the memory of Zanarkand. He himself becomes Yu Yevon, and creates the first Sin. (The birth of Sin.)
- Yunalesca, a summoner from Zanarkand, turns her husband Zaon into a fayth and destroys Sin with the Final Summoning. She remains on Spira as an Unsent
- The second Sin appears publicly with Yunalesca's Final Aeon (Zaon) as its core. It destroys the remaining machina civilisations.

600 years pass... With Sin killing thousands every year ?

Approximately 400 years ago
- Summoner Gandof defeats Sin with his Final Summoning and becomes the first high summoner in history.
(This gives credence to Yevon's teachings, and doubts about the Temples subside.)
GANDOF'S CALM
- The third Sin appears publicly, with Gandof's Final Aeon as its core.

170 years of Sin Killing ?!?!?

Approximately 230 years ago
- Summoner Ohalland, a former blitzball player, defeats Sin with his Final Summoning and becomes a high summoner.
OHALLAND'S CALM
- The fourth Sin appears publicly, with Ohalland's Final Aeon as its core.

130 years of Sin Killing ?!?!?

Approximately 100 years ago
- Summoner Yocun, a former Crusader, defeats Sin with her Final Summoning and becomes a high summoner.
YOCUN'S CALM
- The fifth Sin appears publicly, with Yocun's Final Aeon as its core.

90 years of Sin Killing ?!?!?

10 years ago
- Summoner Braska defeats Sin using Jecht as the fayth for his Final Summoning, and becomes a high summoner.
BRASKA'S CALM


9 years ago
- The sixth Sin appears publicly, with Braska's Final Aeon (Jecht) as its core.

1 year ago
Sin reappears and kills Chappu

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?p=1496935

[FinalCetra]

That is a very good question, I never took a close look at the FFX timeline. I just may have to do that.

[Christmas]

According to GAMEFAQ, the FFX and FFX2 Ultimania guides post only 5 "Calm" periods (below), with High Summoners appearing in intervals of 600 years thru 90 years. Now, here is my problem with it:
- We see that Yu Yevon takes only 9 years to rebuild Sin, as it was all it took for Sin to reappear after Braska defeated it.

- Does this means Sin is "alive" and loose around Spira for centuries ?
IMHO that is impossible. If Sin kills as we see it doing in FFX every single year during those large periods, the planet's population would be extinct after a while, say, 200 years



How long are you going to let the destruction continue?
Kefka: I've tapped into the ultimate power. Observe...!
Kefka: Such magnificent power! You are like insects to me!
Kefka: I will exterminate everyone, and everything!
People will keep rebuilding the things you take from them!
Kefka: Then I'll destroy those too. Why do people rebuild things they know are going to be destroyed? Why do people cling to life when they know they can't live forever? Think how meaningless each of your lives is!

It's not the net result of one's life that's important! It's the day-to-day
concerns, the personal victories, and the celebration of life... and love!
It's enough if people are able to experience the joy that each day can bring!



Kefka: I will destroy everything... I will create a monument to non-existence!
Life will go on! There will always be people, and dreams!




- Did Yu Yevon take much longer to rebuild Sin initially ? i.e. did he take, say, 500 years to create the second Sin ?
IMHO that is impossible. A threat that has not reappeared for a generation or two would not command such fear and devotion from people. Bevelle and Yevon's Church would lose a lot of it's prestige and influence after 100 - 150 years without Sin. The more "costly" tenets of the Church would be abandoned, i.e, Summoner training would be abandoned and so would be the machina prohibition

As proof I submit the Catholic Church. Sure we still have people who believe Jesus will come back, even after 2,000 years of wait, but the power of the Church to run our daily life has been gone for a long time. There are very few people who still refrain from eating meat on Fridays and even less people who abide by all the other tenets in the Bible.
There is no way people in Spira would still refrain from using machina after 200 years of no Sin!!!

So what gives ?


[/INDENT]

That will depends on how strong the leaders of the Church is. Especially when they rule with an iron grip. Besides, a lot of Muslim still observes their religious practices passed down from long ago.

The influence of the Yevon Church still remains after FF X which show that even without Sin, the Yevon Church still lives on inside the people's heart.

[Fatal Impurity]

i personally think the guides are wrong and that there were many summoners but those five were possibly the most honorable, memorable, powerful, impressive?

[Christmas]

Because they "defeat" Sin and bring about a Calm that's why.

[Rogue]

very interestig thread

[Renmiri]

i personally think the guides are wrong and that there were many summoners but those five were possibly the most honorable, memorable, powerful, impressive?

Yeah, that is what I think too!
Ohalland could be famous because he was a blitz player that turned into a summoner, a surprising thing for a celebrity to do: give his life for others

Here on US, Pat Tillman was but one soldier among many but his name and his life stay with us for the same reason: surprising courage and dedication from someone so rich and famous.

Gandorf could be famous because of the huge battle that created the Calm Lands Gorge

Braska because he was the most recent Summoner

Yokum ? Maybe because she was a crusader, i.e. not a monk

The longest Sin killing spree is the 600 years between Yunaleska and Gandorf.

I suppose Yu Yevon could take longer at his first try at rebuilding Sin (but then, how did he build Sin so quickly ?). And it could have taken one or two centuries for Sin to kill the population of a planet with millions of people (like ours) reducing their numbers to the few small cities we see on Yuna's Spira.. Centuries of killing would also make Sin pretty unforgettable and Yevon's Church pretty powerful.

Still, 600 years is a long time for a killing machine like Sin to be running loose around the planet. IMHO any population would be extinct.

[look_out_below]

Maybe Sin was at some other part of the planet or just didnt kill as many people to begin with. Because it does say somewhere in FFX that each Sin was stronger then the previous one since it is made of the aeon that defeated the sin before it. Maybe the first was not that strong. Zanarkand had just spent numerous years in war and was on the brink of defeat when Yu Yevon created the first sin. This means that the city was probably not in that great of shape due to shortages in supplies and the city was also probably bombarded during the war destorying and weakening structures in the city. So it was easy for the first weaker sin to show up, destory the city, while never using an attack anywhere near as powerful as the sin made from Braska's final summon. The first sin may have been more of a pain in the butt then any real threat, maybe just sinking a ship here blowing a building over there and so on. After 600 years of this Gandorf final decided to end it and destroyed the first sin. Unknown to him sin would be reborn and be stronger then before. The stronger sin brought a much quicker reaction, although still a hundred plus years, because it was capable of killing and destroying more. So each time sin was destroyed and reborn it brought quicker reaction due to it being stronger, until it reached the strength of the final sin.
Just my thoughts anyway.

[Little Blue]

Yeah, that is what I think too!
Ohalland could be famous because he was a blitz player that turned into a summoner, a surprising thing for a celebrity to do: give his life for others For this you're using standards established in our world where celebrities are so self centered that they generally only help others if it suits their publicity. Sure, there may be exceptions, like this Tillman person you reference, but in general...


Gandof could be famous because of the huge battle that created the Calm Lands Gorge

Braska because he was the most recent Summoner

Yokum ? Maybe because she was a crusader, i.e. not a monk

The longest Sin killing spree is the 600 years between Yunaleska and Gandorf.
These people, and Ohalland are famous for beating Sin. Thats it. They've each got their own history, like being a blitzer, or a former crusader, but regardless of their lives, they beat Sin. That is why they are famous, and that is why they each have a statue in the temples.

Braska was a nobody, some might have called him a heretic for marrying and Al Bhed, and in Yevon, that is not a good thing. Regardless of how recent it was, if Yevon chose which High Summoners to have statues of, it'd be pretty certain he wouldn't be included, ever, and there would probably be different statues in each temple, representing High Summoners who are from that region. Thus it is reasonable to conclude that those with the large statues in the temples are those who have beaten Sin, the only ones.


I suppose Yu Yevon could take longer at his first try at rebuilding Sin (but then, how did he build Sin so quickly ?). And it could have taken one or two centuries for Sin to kill the population of a planet with millions of people (like ours) reducing their numbers to the few small cities we see on Yuna's Spira.. Centuries of killing would also make Sin pretty unforgettable and Yevon's Church pretty powerful.

Still, 600 years is a long time for a killing machine like Sin to be running loose around the planet. IMHO any population would be extinct.
I guess the time for a rebuild varies, it may never be the same exactly. However, you assume that Sin is killig 24/7. Yet in the game, we often see it on its own, doing nothing (this may be in part due to jecht, but for convenience sake, I'll assume it's not). the only major kiling sprees are in kilika, and in Djose. Granted the events of the game take place over a week or two, so if this is indicative of sins behaviour, it may indicate between 20 to 40 attacks in total each year. Besides, with Summoners often trying to kill it, crusaders distracting it, and a general multitude of boats to chase, Sin would be pretty busy anyway...

Also, there was likely to have been many more places to attack than we see when sin first appeared, and it seems to rarely completely destroy a place (kilika was farely intact. It appears that, even though roof and huts were destroyed, there is a large amount of kilika left afterwards, and only a dozen or so people were killed, if I'm counting the coffins right during the sending), and since sin cant be in more than one place at once, it may have taken time to whittle spira down to the handful of places that exist now...

I will concede that if another 1000 years had gone by, all sentient life may have been erradicated.

[Crop]

I thaught it was 2 years each calm.

[Fire_Emblem776]

no yuna says its been 10 years since the last calm

[Renmiri]

I guess the combination of Sin growing stronger, Yu Yevon getting faster at rebuilding it, Sin's iddle periods and the initial population in Spira being much larger (all those destroyed ruins) could make the 1,000 years with only 6 High Summoners plausible.

I will have to change my fan fiction yet again. Aaargh!!!

[Tabris]

This may be a stupid question, but I am wondering why people didn't move further in to the land. Why continue to live at the coast when Sin's there? He's a sea monster, and will not pose a threat to anyone living away from the coast.

[Little Blue]

This may be a stupid question, but I am wondering why people didn't move further in to the land. Why continue to live at the coast when Sin's there? He's a sea monster, and will not pose a threat to anyone living away from the coast.
Yet in the beginning FMV, Sin is seen floating above the city. I doubt that location would particuarly matter to Sin. Granted, it is usually seen swimmng, but it can be found flying, and many ruins are found inland, such as the ruins on Bikanel.

Another possibility is that there are few places inland that are suitable. Both Besaid and Kilika woul need extensive forrestry to clear enough land to allow them to settle further inland, and the main continent is largely made up of mountainous regions, the only large, flat areas (looking at the world map) are the calm lands, which is unacceptable as it is the site of the final summoning, and a large plain to the east of Guadosalam. Building a home there, and abandoning all other coastal cities would make it very likely that Sin could attack and kill everyone at once...

[Tabris]

I've been thinking along those lines myself, Aurons Ghost, and I agree that there aren't too many locations suitable for living in Spira. (Or, at least, the parts of Spira that we see). Of course, they could chop down the Kilika Forest and the Macalania Forest, although I doubt they'd do that - at least not the latter one. I don't think Spirans are as cynical as us. ;)

But I thought the inlands ruins scattered around Spira were broken partly because of the great war and partly because they weren't used anymore due to the teachings, and therefore they were left to the tender mercy of the passing of time...

[Venom]

Each calm is ten years I think.

[Little Blue]

I've been thinking along those lines myself, Aurons Ghost, and I agree that there aren't too many locations suitable for living in Spira. (Or, at least, the parts of Spira that we see). Of course, they could chop down the Kilika Forest and the Macalania Forest, although I doubt they'd do that - at least not the latter one. I don't think Spirans are as cynical as us. ;)

But I thought the inlands ruins scattered around Spira were broken partly because of the great war and partly because they weren't used anymore due to the teachings, and therefore they were left to the tender mercy of the passing of time...
Also, the fact that they live on the coasts could be a symbol of defiance against Sin...

The war was between Zanarkand and Bevelle, so I personally find it unlikely that other places would have been involved, but you never know... I do agree about the other point though, it is possible that they fell apart naturally, and because no ne really cared about the places, Yevon never bothered to restore them...

[look_out_below]

It would be impossible for some of the cities to move inland not just because of unsuitable locations but because it would mean a loss of trade to many towns/cities. Kilika was a trading a town and the ocean was their direct means to transport and trade of goods. If they moved further inland this trade route would be blocked or made inconvinent. The same thing could go for many of the other sea side places in Spira (ship seemed to the fastest means of transport).

[Renmiri]

Spira's population is very small. So it makes sense tha no one has gone inland but the Guado and even them are around a large body of water. In our own Earth the settling of new continents followed the same patterns: Coasts and rivers first, inland later.

Except that Sin makes sure there is never a "later" for Spira.

Woho! Writer inspiration hitting! A sequel could examine the unexplored areas of their continents! :D :roll:

Hey Tabris ? Maybe I CAN do a sequel tale without putting aliens in Spira!!!


It would be impossible for some of the cities to move inland not just because of unsuitable locations but because it would mean a loss of trade to many towns/cities. Kilika was a trading a town and the ocean was their direct means to transport and trade of goods. If they moved further inland this trade route would be blocked or made inconvinent. The same thing could go for many of the other sea side places in Spira (ship seemed to the fastest means of transport).

Yes and their only "engine" was a chocobo propelled boat wheel. So "mass transit" had to be on a boat.

[Tabris]

Hey Tabris ? Maybe I CAN do a sequel tale without putting aliens in Spira!!!


:thumb: :ty:

[Psydekick]

I have another question, where does sin go when he's not attacking?:)

[Little Blue]

Probably just sits about doing nothing... Like when we catch up to Sin near the end of the game...

[Christmas]

I have another question, where does sin go when he's not attacking?:)

He go visit the honey bee inn of course.

[Psydekick]

But he is massive how the hell could he just sit around without anyone seeing:confused:

[Christmas]

So what if anyone see him?

[Renmiri]

If you look at Spira's Map, there are some vast plains behind Djose and the Moonflow. He could be there or under Macalania Lake..
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6306/2126/320/FFXMAP1.jpg

[Little Blue]

Or it could just be frolicking among some ruins in the middle of the ocean, or just in the middle of the ocean...
Spiras populace seem to prefer to hang around the continent, except for Besaid and Kilika, and the Al Bhed are just odd anyway... so it's likely that Sin could be swimming in some remote patch of water and no one would find it...

[ffxfreak93]

or he could be invisible

[look_out_below]

Or he could be just sitting somewhere listening to the song of the Fayth like he did outside.....the temple with Shiva in it (i know the name just have no wish to try spelling it). No one knew Sin was there until he started moving.

[Little Blue]

That would only apply to Jechts Sin, we have no idea if the other cores were fond of the Hymn...

[Renmiri]

But we can speculate that the other Final Aeons were good people that hated the killing, just like Jecht. After all they were part of a High Summoner's pilgrimage!

I imagine there is a constant "arm wrestle" between Sin and each guardian/Aeon soul and when that guardian can't holdout any longer Sin kills.

[Little Blue]

Again, not neccessarily. At the end of X, when the party meets Jecht, he tells them that he will soon be sin, completely. This suggests only a limited amount of time for the core to influence sin...

[Renmiri]

Good point. But we have also concluded that Sin is getting stronger as time passes so that overpowering may have taken a long time to happen with, say, Lord Zaeon. It would help explain the 600 years of Sin running loose and no summoners volunteering...

[Little Blue]

How do we know no summoners volunteered? We know none were successful. Many summoners died en route, or gave up... Some may evn have been successful in obtaining the final aeon, but if their bond to the fayth was not strong enough, Sin would have just killed both...

[Renmiri]

How do we know no summoners volunteered? We know none were successful. Many summoners died en route, or gave up... Some may evn have been successful in obtaining the final aeon, but if their bond to the fayth was not strong enough, Sin would have just killed both...

True. And it would make sense that it took long to train Summoners starting from scratch...

[look_out_below]

The game gives an example of a summoner who failed, whats her name in Remiem Temple (she actually says she tried and failed). Also to early points about the aeons making Sin being good they could also be someone like Seymore who figured out the system and used a summoner to gain the power of being Sin.

[Psydekick]

Her names Belgimine and yes I'm sure i heard a few more that had tryed and failed:)

[a_dollar_20]

why do the fayth not just tell any of the previous summoners to walk inside sin and beat him down.

[Christmas]

They dun want to stop dreaming.

[a_dollar_20]

Do you notice they get tired of dreaming even though to be dreaming u have to be asleep so how can they be tired

[Christmas]

First of all, the fayth in Gagazet is used to summon Dream Zanarkand.

The Fayths that is used to summon Aeons cherish that dream.


"For a long time, we had forgotten how to go forward."
"You reminded us we must go forward."

The fayth decided to stop the dreaming because it is pointless and is time to move forward.

Not because they overslept or something.

[Psydekick]

This game is so confusing:(

[a_dollar_20]

i know

[look_out_below]

Its not that confusing, if you want confusing try Calculus:cry:. Anyways maybe to the Fayth dreaming of Zanarkland was like a nightmare, seeing a place and people they knew were gone and that the Fayth could never return to.