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View Full Version : Respect Guidlines for Sigs (and maybe Avatars)?



Vyk
01-24-2006, 09:09 PM
I think I've got most of the unfilled requests done.

sept mine
Then he gets his

wow Both your things have bin great First the sign ature now this ta!!
Four days later

Hey! can someone please make a avatar to go with my signature please......

How many avatar's do you want

if your talking to me just one of each..... so x-2 tidus, yuna and x tidus,yuna

I was just saying that you have asked for so many avatars in this thread (You've only had the one you have got now for a week) n you already want another one
Obviously, Sora! was keeping tabs xD

Ah, you go Sora!, playing devil's advocate. I'd have to agree. There should be rules of respect. Though it's a bigger problem in Sig Service. Avatars usually involve merely cropping something. But signatures take some time and skill. And people change their minds so fast. Kinda rude and disrespectful in my opinion. Someone is kind enough to take the time to make you something, and you actually liked it, you should tote it around for a while :D

That how I felt when XXXXXXXXXXXX asked me for a Cowboy Bebop set and 2 days later, he got Zeldy to make him one and claimed he gets bored after 2 days! I was pissed and still annoyed cause I put effort and time into that set and he just threw it aside and put in for another request.

And as far as I know, he still has Zeldys sig. And to top it off, he asked me to make him an anime banner for his site. I said I could try, but I had Uni work to do. He said no problem, then he said not to bother cause he had learnt to make banners. And to my shock and horror, I seen that Zeldy had made one for him instead. So not only is he disrespectful, hes a liar.

He probably realized you had a boyfriend or something and decided to show off the works of a girl he thought he had a chance with? :P

On a more serious note, I wonder if staff ever made notice of this kinda stuff. It seems to go on a lot, and I'm honestly surprised it hasn't become an issue yet. I doubt there could be a rule made. But certainly an aside, just noting that people should be respectful and gracious.
So uh... is it possible to enforce some kinda guideline? I know people are gonna want to be finnicky by nature. But I'm sure the people putting time and effort would like to know that before putting in that time and effort. "Can someone make me this sig? Though I'll only be keeping it for a few days. Thanks!" That's real grateful :/ The issue should at least be open for debate, in my humble opinion.

I have editted out names because I do not think it's very cool to be nameing names. ~ Leeza

Madonna
01-24-2006, 09:16 PM
The idea is that you don't make sigs for people that you find do not appreciate them. :hooters:

I don't think that the moderating team should moderate a signature-making service that the members themselves implemented. So you yourself and others who agree with you can each deny someone's request if you feel that they are mistreating the service, but that should be as far as it goes.

Unless you make a signature-makers' guildunion. :|

Leeza
01-24-2006, 09:18 PM
Guidelines for this are not needed. It's up the person making the sig/av as to whether or not they wish to make anything for the person making the request. There is no one forcing anyone to do anything. If you think that someone is abusing the services by asking too many times too often, then don't make their sig or av. Simple as that.

Rye
01-24-2006, 09:23 PM
I think there needs to be one guideline: do NOT PM requests. One week I got about 6 requests PMed to me, and it drove me nuts and it made me very upset, as anyone who reads my LJ can attest to. :)

You're not forced to be requests, yes, but if you're a person like me, you feel awful if you say no, and some people are awfully snippy if you don't get their banner to them fast enough. And there are some people who PMs you once and you're happy to do their sig, but then every day they have a NEW request. So sig requests should probably be only allowed in sig threads, in my opinion.

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 09:23 PM
Im on more than 10 forums ........how do u no which 1 i use my signatures or avatars on........the devil may cry 1 i asked for ages ago i still have!! on a devil may cry forum

~SapphireStar~
01-24-2006, 09:27 PM
I agree with Rye. I had 1 member PM me, demanding me to make a cig (his spelling) for him. I PMed back asking for details, then I discovered he posted something about my opinion and it was snipped and from the note left in his post, it didnt sound plesant, so I PMed him and refused his request. But like Rye said, people shouldnt PM others for sets, they should use the thread that was created for them.

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
01-24-2006, 09:30 PM
This has happened to me like i've been asked to do sigs in pm's by the same person more than once.
I've gotten so many but I'm not the kind of person that can say "no" so easily.
I wish I could though :(

Yamaneko
01-24-2006, 09:31 PM
No one's forcing anyone to do anything.

Madonna
01-24-2006, 09:33 PM
So what you guys are saying is that all of you have weak wills and haven't learned that it's okay to say no to http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifholes?

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 09:33 PM
well if you feel that way why don't you tell ppl the sort of software to buy/download etc...... some good techniques that way you can get more "time to your self" and the ppl who need signatures...... etc get what they want exactlly to the specification cuase they've done it........"anyways scrap the avy just got gimp!"

~SapphireStar~
01-24-2006, 09:34 PM
I only made the one and I thought if people see this set Ive made for this person, it may impress them and ask themselves. We are just being polite and doing the requests, doesnt mean we have weak wills.

escobert
01-24-2006, 09:35 PM
That's why I started making my own. I would get a new idea or somehting and didn't wanna keep asking everyone.

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 09:36 PM
You don't have to be polite all of the time if your polite all the time ur gona go crazy........it's not natural ppl have to say no sometime

Rye
01-24-2006, 09:36 PM
So what you guys are saying is that all of you have weak wills and haven't learned that it's okay to say no to http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifholes?

Yup, pretty much. I prefer to have people like me than dislike me. That's just me I suppose, I'm not really one to say no. And even if the people understand, I feel guilty for not helping people. I break my back for people, that's just my nature. :)

And also, you feel upset if you say no because they take special notice in your work and pick you out of everyone. It's like slapping someone in the face after they compliment you.

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
01-24-2006, 09:37 PM
I only made the one and I thought if people see this set Ive made for this person, it may impress them and ask themselves. We are just being polite and doing the requests, doesnt mean we have weak wills.

Me too its just that for me it makes me feel bad when these people I suppose I know put a sad smiley and ask me for a new sig..Like come on it doesnt mean I have a weak will.

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 09:38 PM
People arnt gona Disslike you becuase you dont have time or u canot do a request.... or you just plain dont want to......You just have to say u cant do it.......but if you just ignore the person asking......by not even posting or say u'll do it and then not do it....thts when they wont like you

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
01-24-2006, 09:39 PM
But they do get a bit annoyed when you do finally say no.

~SapphireStar~
01-24-2006, 09:40 PM
Thats just how some people are. It is annoying sometimes to be poilte full stop, heck, Im not polite 100% of the time as Im sure youve all seen. But it flatters me when people take notice and ask me to make something for them, as Im sure everyone does.

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
01-24-2006, 09:42 PM
Thats just how some people are. It is annoying sometimes to be poilte full stop, heck, Im not polite 100% of the time as Im sure youve all seen. But it flatters me when people take notice and ask me to make something for them, as Im sure everyone does.
Most of the time when I get asked to make something I feel special because I think they didnt have to ask me in particular but when they ask me more than 3 or 2 times I get a bit annoyed.

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 09:42 PM
if you think about it this way.....if they do get annoyed then the'll be over it by the next day thats just the way ppl are...
i Don't think ive ever met someone ho holds a grudge just cuase someone wont do something for them.....that if they had the correct equipment could do easily them selves......and the ppl who do get turned down they feel the errrge to get that software or equipment the do need to do that job

eestlinc
01-24-2006, 09:53 PM
The more polite way to say no is to ask for payment. When someone calls me to come teach a class for them or something, I tell them how much I will charge based on how much I want or don't want to do it.

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 09:56 PM
is'nt that........actually you have point why dont u give the ppl a trail period they have to have the sig avy for a fixed amout of time

Vyk
01-24-2006, 09:58 PM
Hm, this sorta exploded.

Anyway. I didn't say it needed to be moderated. Granted we shouldn't have to ask people be grateful that others are willing to do things for them. I just feel a little sympathetic for the ones doing the work. Instead of feeling like they're doing a service and appreciated, I'm sure they feel used once in a while. Why should we expect them to just get bitter and put their foot down and stop? Is that what we really want? I like to think the majority of people really enjoy what they do. I apologise for making an example out of someone, but it's all in a thread that's relatively active so I didn't think it'd matter.

All I'm saying is maybe with the rules at the beginning of the sig thread and such, maybe it could be pointed out that people don't pull this stuff out of their butts in two minutes. I realize they probably all say "thank you" but when they change it out two days later, that's kinda moot.

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 10:02 PM
Yeah thanx for that.......

But i supose it had to be done......but anyways i just got gimp 2.0 but i can't resize images to the size i want after adding them to a cavas.......as soon as i figure that out no more requests


anyways in the meantime try saying something like

i will execpt you request but only if you give me your word thatyou will use my work for "amout of weeks/days here)

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
01-24-2006, 10:03 PM
Well hope you improve ffk :)

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 10:05 PM
yeah if anyone here has any idea how to use gimp i will accept any pointers

Vyk
01-24-2006, 10:09 PM
There was a thread for pointers somewhere... I will have to look that up. Again, I apologize though. I've no beef with you. Just seemed like a good example to represent the issue. You're right though. I never looked into what manner you were using them for.

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 10:11 PM
There was a thread for pointers somewhere... I will have to look that up. Again, I apologize though. I've no beef with you. Just seemed like a good example to represent the issue. You're right though. I never looked into what manner you were using them for.


It doesnt matter you was right to......even if i do need a request done for another forum i should either wait a couple of weeks/months or post both requests for both forums in one post

Leeza
01-24-2006, 10:15 PM
I don't see how you can force someone to keep a theme that has been made for them anymore than they can force somone to make it for them. I really don't see the problem here. If you can see that someone is not going to appreciate your work and you see them requesting work on a regular basis, don't do work for them. People will take advantage of you only if you allow them to. Guidelines for this are not necessary, just good judgement.

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 10:18 PM
well if the person isnt gona use the sig/avy for however long then they can just say there not gona so basiaclly they dont get a signature

~SapphireStar~
01-24-2006, 10:20 PM
If you can see that someone is not going to appreciate your work and you see them requesting work on a regular basis, don't do work for them.

The reason I made the sig for that person was because they sent me a nice PM in which they said they loved my work and if poss could I make them one. I made it, they were happy. I got another several hours later asking for an avatar to go with the sig, I did and they were happy. I had never spoken to this person before and thought they would have kept the sig for sometime because they were so enthuastic sbotu my work. The only thing I wanted was credit in his signature, which I did recieve. It just hurt that when I confronted him about the reason why he'd changed it was that he had gotten bored of it! After 2 days, which hurt even more. I hadnt seen any other requests from him to other people, so I assumed he was ok. But Im not doing requests for people now, unless its in the thread.

Vyk
01-24-2006, 10:20 PM
It doesnt matter you was right to......even if i do need a request done for another forum i should either wait a couple of weeks/months or post both requests for both forums in one post
Nah, request all you like. I wasn't looking to start a riot or anything. I guess if you want a contingency plan for doofuses like me, you could just be like "this is for another forum" or something x_x; I dunno. I feel bad now

Psychotic
01-24-2006, 10:34 PM
It seems that quite a few of EoFF's graphics makers feel strongly about this, and people abusing the signature service could make them want to stop taking signature requests altogether, and that'd deprive EoFF of a valuable service.

However, what can be done about it? Setting a rule that people can only request a sig once every X days/weeks would be hard to enforce/keep track of, especially because of PM requests. Another alternative could be starting a "blacklist" of people who have abused the service, but I don't think the mods would be too keen on that. Who would decide who goes on the blacklist? What if it's unfair? etc. etc.

I guess the only thing you can do is to keep watch for this sort of thing yourselves, without any official involvement. If you think someone is taking advantage, then simply ignore their requests, and maybe PM other graphics makers about them if they've really annoyed you.

As for the problem of people PMing requests, how about putting a line in your signature saying "Please request all signatures in the signature request thread." unless that messes up the whole aesthetics of your sig :p

Wow, I wrote four paragraphs on something that has no relevance to me. I rule!

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 10:36 PM
Nah, request all you like. I wasn't looking to start a riot or anything. I guess if you want a contingency plan for doofuses like me, you could just be like "this is for another forum" or something x_x; I dunno. I feel bad now


Dont be i kinda felt like a aguement today (no effece) its bin building up in me for ages


It seems that quite a few of EoFF's graphics makers feel strongly about this, and people abusing the signature service could make them want to stop taking signature requests altogether, and that'd deprive EoFF of a valuable service.

However, what can be done about it? Setting a rule that people can only request a sig once every X days/weeks would be hard to enforce/keep track of, especially because of PM requests. Another alternative could be starting a "blacklist" of people who have abused the service, but I don't think the mods would be too keen on that. Who would decide who goes on the blacklist? What if it's unfair? etc. etc.

I guess the only thing you can do is to keep watch for this sort of thing yourselves, without any official involvement. If you think someone is taking advantage, then simply ignore their requests, and maybe PM other graphics makers about them if they've really annoyed you.

As for the problem of people PMing requests, how about putting a line in your signature saying "Please request all signatures in the signature request thread." unless that messes up the whole aesthetics of your sig :p

Wow, I wrote four paragraphs on something that has no relevance to me. I rule!


Now theres someone who gets my point across that ppl understand.......may b its just me

Rye
01-24-2006, 10:38 PM
It seems that quite a few of EoFF's graphics makers feel strongly about this, and people abusing the signature service could make them want to stop taking signature requests altogether, and that'd deprive EoFF of a valuable service.

Exactly. :) The people who don't sigs generally don't get that we're really fed up with being abused. I, for one, hardly can stand making banners anymore. It used to be something I really loved.

Just a line in the beginning of the sig service thread by a mod saying "Please request sigs in sig thread only. Do not PM people." would definitely be a help. :) Yes, people can say no, but why should we feel like the bad guys? It's a priveledge and a valuble voluntary service, like Paul said. It's not something to be forced.

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
01-24-2006, 10:39 PM
Yeah it would help alot :)

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 10:42 PM
Even i'd be happy with that cuase ill end up a maker when.....this gimp thing works

Rye
01-24-2006, 10:44 PM
Even i'd be happy with that cuase ill end up a maker when.....this gimp thing works

I'm not too familiar with GIMP since I use Paint Shop Pro 7 (and I have used Photoshop), but here is a tutorial site for you. :)

http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/

Yamaneko
01-24-2006, 10:46 PM
So you want staff to do the dirty work and tell people off?

Rye
01-24-2006, 10:50 PM
So you want staff to do the dirty work and tell people off?

No, just put a line in the sig service saying to not request sigs via PM is all. I'm not really concerned with people changing their sig after requesting it or anything, but the PM requests do bug me and many other graphic designers. :)

MecaKane
01-24-2006, 10:52 PM
If someone's not going to like you because you don't want to make a sig for them, they're not worth it. Sorry if I sound like your mom or something, but I guess children need their mother. Same thing if a boy wants you to put out.

I have limited PM space so send anything about making sigs or avatars to the whatever threads. Problem number two solved.

eestlinc
01-24-2006, 10:53 PM
Please also keep in mind that many of the people asking for signatures are 13 years old and they don't stick to anything for more than three days. Telling them to "respect the artist" isn't going to have much effect.

Leeza
01-24-2006, 10:54 PM
It seems that a lot of people don't read the first post of the Signature Service thread anyway so putting in a line about no PMs wouldn't really help matters any. It's up to you to either ignore the PM request or follow through with it.

ff7+ff10 gurl 100
01-24-2006, 10:59 PM
I guess its true what was said Leeza, most people dont even read it so i guess its up to us to ignore or just do it for that person.
Well I guess I could be able to say no a few times :)

Shadowdeathrose
01-24-2006, 11:15 PM
I'm not too familiar with GIMP since I use Paint Shop Pro 7 (and I have used Photoshop), but here is a tutorial site for you. :)

http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/


Thnk you rye this will come in handy

Old Manus
01-24-2006, 11:27 PM
Start
Programs
Accessories
Paint

Oh wow I just made a decent looking signature that didn't involve some corny phrase, has no 'OmG filt3r effectz', and actually stands out

Psychotic
01-24-2006, 11:41 PM
So you want staff to do the dirty work and tell people off?I thought you people loved doing that.

Well, everyone except you, because it's the height of wit to say that you're lazy and I'm one hella funny guy.

Old Manus
01-24-2006, 11:45 PM
pwned

Loony BoB
01-25-2006, 12:43 AM
I have to say that as much as I sympathise with those who don't like people disliking them, there isn't any real way that we can stamp authority on this issue. We can't make a rule for everyone not to PM requests for sigs as it's a personal choice on whether or not you accept them - there may well be people out there who are absolutely fine with such things. So we can't say in the thread "Don't PM people" for that reason.

People will have to say no. There are polite ways to do it if you're nervous that people won't like you (although I agree with Kane that if they don't like you for that reason, then they aren't worth your efforts). "Sorry, since I got more of these requests than I could handle, I can't do this." Possibly more of a side-step saying "Please post all signature making requests into this thread." Of course, don't forget to link to the thread and all. :p But yeah. You get the idea.

As much as it worries me that I'm doing this so often, I agree with Psy on this one.

Yamaneko
01-25-2006, 12:59 AM
Well, everyone except you, because it's the height of wit to say that you're lazy and I'm one hella funny guy.
Uh, I am lazy. It's not like I do all these things behind the scenes or anything.

Loony BoB
01-25-2006, 01:02 AM
I think Yams is ranked 4th in the list of staffers with most bans to their name in the Banned Members List. I'm sure he's in the top 5-6 at least.

RSL
01-25-2006, 01:06 AM
I'm probably last.

Loony BoB
01-25-2006, 01:15 AM
<b>EDIT BY BoB:</b> Okay we should get back on topic. I'll post this into the stats thread.

Psychotic
01-25-2006, 01:15 AM
Uh, I am lazy. It's not like I do all these things behind the scenes or anything.Oh of course. It'd be a crime for someone with a smile and friendly disposition like yours to work in anywhere but public relations.

Miriel
01-25-2006, 02:53 AM
Ditto everything Leeza said in this thread.

I used to make sigs for people in that thread, and then when I got bored of it, I just stopped doing it. If someone sent me a PM, I would just say, "no" and leave it at that. Seriously, it won't be the end of the world if someone doesn't get a signature for an internet forum made for them.

I had someone on this forum repeatedly PM me asking me to make them a LJ layout, but it wasn't a big deal. It's easy to just tell 'em that you're busy or not interested and then ignore whatever subsequent requests they send you.

The Summoner of Leviathan
01-25-2006, 06:35 PM
*reads* This is why I make my own. So I know what I like and if I become really fussy and want to change it I won't feel bad.

I rarely do anyt request in the Sig Service thread, though I do occaisonally read it but most of the time when there is an unfulfilled request I do not do it for A) they have no pics for it and I am not the type to search for pics for someone else unless I already have some, B) I have no inspiration at the moment ir C) I am just to lazy to. I have been asked before to make some for some people, but I do not mind for I talk to these people on a regular basis and such. Also most of the time when they ask I am extremely bored so I will do it out of kindness and boredom and the need of practice.

But I have noticed at time sin the Sig Request thread that some people get a bit pushy and not always nice. I know you can't enforce it but people themselves should be more considerate when they make request and have patience. After all someone is doing you a favour, so you should at least be patient. As previously said you can't enforce that so it is really up to the graphic artists to choose. Saying that it does not excuse people from having common curtosy of patience and thankfulness.

Cruise Control
01-25-2006, 06:40 PM
Start
Programs
Accessories
Paint

Oh wow I just made a decent looking signature that didn't involve some corny phrase, has no 'OmG filt3r effectz', and actually stands outI tried and failed. But yeah, I can appreciate how the sig makers feel. I adore mine, and got rid of it after three months, made my own (it sucked) and felt so bad I changed it back.
So, I guess the point to this post is if you can't do it, show respect for the people who can.

Reine
01-25-2006, 09:11 PM
I very rarely change my sig, due to the fact that somone went out of their way to make it for me.

The last set I had was made by Vyk, and I had for ages! I know how long it takes to make these things, especially when you put so much effort into it, my mate Sieg, who has helped me with a lot of sigs, including my current set, is really proud of the work he did for me, especially my site's banner.

I would feel exacty the same way if any work I did was just thrown aside within days...

rubah
01-26-2006, 12:22 AM
Wow.

I realize that this is a completely different entity than the boards I 'grew up' on, but at MH, it was considered extremely rude to constantly barrage people with requests.

There, everyone had individual threads, and to go through and post a request in every single one of them would end up with that person not getting a single one made.

If you want someone to make you a sig for another forum, why not specify that?

I understand how difficult it is to say no. Fortunately for me, I am too lazy to ever get to the bit of saying anything, so more often than not, someone would get ignored altogether:]

What the sigmakers need to do is unionize^_^

Vyk
01-26-2006, 12:50 AM
The Council of Sig-Makers will consider your proposal...

Madonna
01-26-2006, 01:10 AM
What the sigmakers need to do is unionize^_^;__; S'what I said!

rubah
01-26-2006, 02:07 AM
So why haven't you then?

Madonna
01-26-2006, 03:02 AM
Does it look like I'm in the [Signature Service] (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=77901) thread much, my dear rubes?

rubah
01-26-2006, 03:04 AM
No but your organizational skills are supreme.

Del Murder
01-26-2006, 03:30 AM
Everyone should just get Mindflare to do their sig, then they'll never want to change.

yunafan11
01-26-2006, 06:52 PM
I just write in my sig. I had to get it edited. LOL. Oh well.

-N-
01-27-2006, 02:31 AM
Everyone should just get Mindflare to do their sig, then they'll never want to change.Is he even around? He's not even in chat.

Well, everyone except you, because it's the height of wit to say that you're lazy and I'm one hella funny guy.You're not from Norcal. But even if you were, that's no excuse to say "hella". EVER.

Psychotic
01-27-2006, 02:54 AM
Well, everyone except you, because it's the height of wit to say that you're lazy and I'm one hella funny guy.You're not from Norcal. But even if you were, that's no excuse to say "hella". EVER.Neel, you're hella crazy!

Del Murder
01-27-2006, 03:24 AM
For the longest time I thought everyone said that.

eestlinc
01-27-2006, 03:41 AM
for the longest time I thought nobody said that.

Leeza
01-27-2006, 03:44 AM
I just thought that it was a name of a band. Which it is. :cat:

Loony BoB
01-27-2006, 01:31 PM
Psy: You guys are hella stupid.
Neel: Why do you keep saying 'hella", Psy?
Psy: 'Cuz I'm hella cool, that's why.
Neel: That's not cool!
Psy: You guys are just hella jealous.

Vyk
01-27-2006, 01:44 PM
*Shakes head* Well, I'm glad this fiasco turned into something entertaining xD

Psychotic
01-27-2006, 11:19 PM
Psy: You guys are hella stupid.
Neel: Why do you keep saying 'hella", Psy?
Psy: 'Cuz I'm hella cool, that's why.
Neel: That's not cool!
Psy: You guys are just hella jealous.Well look at Little Mister Comedian! He's hella dorky. :cool:

Old Manus
01-28-2006, 12:16 AM
<img src="http://www.auto-nicolai.de/rs13/images/1077272021/Hella.273x193.jpg" alt="at hella we are dedicated to give you the response you need">

Loony BoB
01-28-2006, 01:34 AM
Well look at Little Mister Comedian! He's hella dorky. :cool:
I wasn't making a joke, I was making a reference, but I guess you didn't get it. :(

Psychotic
01-28-2006, 01:40 AM
I'm going to assume it's South Park, with my lines being said by Cartman. Sorry, I stopped watching that when it stopped being cool. I'm a trendwhore! A hella trendwhore!

Unless it's some crappy New Zealand DIY show which you just made up.

-N-
01-28-2006, 02:46 AM
Neel> I think when people outside Northern California say "hella", they need to be smacked around
Roogle> That's hella cool.
Neel> And when people from Northern California say "hella", they need to be smacked around.
Neel> And when Jamil says it, he gets a first class ankleslap to the face.
Neel> Yep
Neel> That's why I don't run things around here

Leeza
01-28-2006, 03:38 AM
Okay. I guess the main topic is done with. :cat: